Paul Ryan on the budget deal: Hey, we might fight on the debt ceiling instead

posted at 11:41 am on December 16, 2013 by Allahpundit

The key bit runs from 5:45 to 7:15. My pal Karl asks a good question:

The whole point of the budget deal, I thought, was to defuse a political landmine in the GOP’s path to the midterms. Take away the possibility of another shutdown, the thinking went, and you’re taking away an ace in the hole that desperate red-state Dems might otherwise play to save their seats next November. Mission accomplished. Except now Ryan’s saying that hitting the debt ceiling, which everyone understands would be far more damaging economically than a shutdown, is still in the picture if Republicans don’t have their as-yet-unspecified demands met. Krazy kwestion: Having folded at the last minute in a debt-ceiling standoff more than once before, why would the GOP’s threats be taken seriously this time? They just caved on the budget in order to avoid any new brinksmanship that might come back to haunt them in the midterms. Now Ryan’s vowing … much more dangerous brinksmanship early next year? Does anyone, starting with Obama and Harry Reid, think they GOP will stand firm this time knowing what sort of political backlash it could inspire?

Their plan, I guess, is to lie low for now and then take stock of ObamaCare’s status next month. Maybe Healthcare.gov will be running smoothly, insurers will be up to speed in processing applications, and middle-class people whose insurance was taken away in the name of booting them onto more expensive O-Care plans will have magically made peace with their predicament. Or maybe Healthcare.gov will have new technical problems due to the payment system not having been built yet, insurers will be overwhelmed by the combo of backlogged applications and HHS’s endless half-assed seat-of-their-pants “fixes,” and new O-Care enrollees will be up in arms over their new deductibles and shrinking provider networks. In that case, the GOP might conclude — maybe not unreasonably — that O and his caucus will be so frazzled by ObamaCare screw-ups and what it might mean for the midterms that they might agree to some sort of delay. What that delay would look like, though I have no idea; the more people who sign up, the more impossible a mid-enrollment-period delay becomes. Even a popular GOP demand, like agreeing to scale back the “risk corridor” provisions in the law so that HHS can’t bail out insurers, could cause chaos if Dems acquiesced in it now. I think they and O have already passed the point of no return on ObamaCare. Which is great news for the GOP insofar as it means their opponents are fully committed to stay the course through next year’s havoc all the way up to the midterms. But it also means that O’s unlikely to make any debt-ceiling deals.

Maybe Ryan knows that and the point of the next round of brinksmanship is simply to make the Landrieus and Pryors in the Senate squirm by forcing them to either stick by the O-Care clusterfark or humiliate O by voting with the GOP. If nothing else, once Republicans do cave, they can use it as a campaign commercial for their audience of grassroots righties to illustrate why it’s so important to get the Senate back in GOP hands in 2015.


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LMAO

celtic warrior on December 16, 2013 at 11:46 AM

So wait. Let me understand this.

Ryan passed a budget deal that ultimately raises spending. That’s a fact.

Yet now Ryan is going to take a stand against increasing the debt ceiling, which ultimately needs to increase because spending (via the budget)increased.

So we’ve ate the meal but don’t want to pay the check?

Marcus Traianus on December 16, 2013 at 11:47 AM

Failure, fools included, no extra charge.

Bmore on December 16, 2013 at 11:48 AM

which everyone understands would be far more damaging economically than a shutdown…

OK Allah, put the Kool-Aid down – it’s not damaging at all because there is no default. A default only occurs if they DON’T pay the debt because they are too stupid to reorganize their payments at the Treasury. This is one of the more insidious meme’s the left trots out and many (you included) give it a total pass as a valid premise. It’s not, never was. You want a “balanced budget”, it gives it to you – instantly.

SkinnerVic on December 16, 2013 at 11:50 AM

If there’s some grand strategy at work here, either I’m too blind to see it or Republican budget “hawks” are engaging in serious 4-D chess.

It’s clear, at any rate, how much the idiotic shutdown did to scare the fight out of formerly bare knuckled budget fighters like Ryan. Between the rout in Virginia and this, it’s certainly becoming the biggest tactical blunder the GOP has committed in the past decade. And all to accomplish nothing.

KingGold on December 16, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Ryan/Walker…for WI hunting commission, or somethin’

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM

Ryan cooked his goose last week, a bit later than Rubio did.

I love it when they expose themselves soon enough.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Krazy kwestion: Having folded at the last minute in a debt-ceiling standoff more than once before, why would the GOP’s threats be taken seriously this time? They just caved on the budget in order to avoid any new brinksmanship that might come back to haunt them in the midterms. Now Ryan’s vowing … much more dangerous brinksmanship early next year? Does anyone, starting with Obama and Harry Reid, think they GOP will stand firm this time knowing what sort of political backlash it could inspire?

Please. This is the same tired song-and-dance routine we’ve been hearing now for 3 years. This is not the battle we need to fight. Wait til the debt ceiling and that’s when we’ll take a stand. Then when the debt ceiling showdown arrives, they say we need to wait til the next CR. Then they tell us to wait for Obamacare. Then it’s the fiscal cliff. Then it’s the debt ceiling again. Then the CR again. Then the sequester. Then another CR.

I for one am tired of the kicking of the can. Either we’ve elected the biggest bunch of p-ssies to ever serve in Congress or they’re a bunch of closet progressives who don’t have the stones to admit what they really believe(unlike the Dems who have the “decency” to openly be redistributionists and big spenders) and are jerking us around.

Doughboy on December 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Anyone else here sick of being lied to by GOP members? Anyone else here sick of being explained to by GOP diehards?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Either we’ve elected the biggest bunch of p-ssies to ever serve in Congress or they’re a bunch of closet progressives who don’t have the stones to admit what they really believe(unlike the Dems who have the “decency” to openly be redistributionists and big spenders) and are jerking us around.

Doughboy on December 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Either way the results are the same. We get screwed. And not even with the courtesy of a reach-around.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:55 AM

Watch the senate weasels. They’ll vote to get the bill out of committee and then they’ll all vote against it, having allowed Reid to play thug of the land, for 51.

Going forward stop blaming obama for anything. Blame Boehner, Cantor, McConnell and McCain.

The Rs enable the Utopian thuggish rats on the left. Thus, they are way more culpable for the demise of the land and her kids.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 11:55 AM

Paul Ryan on the budget deal: Hey, we might fight on the debt ceiling instead

“I mean, if there’s time, but there won’t be time. So…. No. We probably won’t fight then.”

Gatsu on December 16, 2013 at 11:56 AM

So we’ve ate the meal but don’t want to pay the check?

Marcus Traianus on December 16, 2013 at 11:47 AM

Shut up. The GOP isn’t progressive./

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:56 AM

The RINOs and the Ds hate the land and her children. They rape you equally, together.

Wake up already. Don’t ever be fooled by any of them again. Ryan lies as good as obama, just sans prompter.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 11:57 AM

Thank you sens Cruz/Lee for exposing the RINO rats, in DC and here. I thank thee daily. It was the best gift of 2013.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Ryan said Republicans will will gather after the holidays “and discuss exactly what it is we’re going to try and get” for voting to suspend or raise the debt limit.

The reason why the 99-ers were not taken care of in this sucky budget deal is that the GOP needs something to cave on when the debt ceiling is being discussed. In the end the GOP will agree to let people stay on unemployment for two years in return for fictional deficit cuts somewhere in the future.

Happy Nomad on December 16, 2013 at 12:00 PM

Ok, where are the usual suspects from last week telling everyone to get in line behind the Party, that the budget wasn’t the hill to fight for, let’s hear from them.

Hellooooo? Apparatchiks?

Bishop on December 16, 2013 at 12:00 PM

Thank you sens Cruz/Lee for exposing the RINO rats, in DC and here. I thank thee daily. It was the best gift of 2013.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Yeah. That’s great. A great PR move for Cruz and Lee. Now what do we do? Just sit around and talk about how wonderful two senators out of 100 are?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:01 PM

it’s not damaging at all because there is no default. A default only occurs if they DON’T pay the debt because they are too stupid to reorganize their payments at the Treasury

.

Nonsense.

At this juncture not raising the Debt Ceiling will have a catastrophic affect on the economy. Not only will it cause a lapse in confidence, but it will have serious market effects on rates, borrowing and collateralization.

Over the long term, spending too much is also going to cause a catastrophe. But this is a cause and effect argument whereby you reduce spending first in order to not require a debt ceiling increase.

Mr. Ryan did what was politically expedient, not what was wise.

Marcus Traianus on December 16, 2013 at 12:02 PM

Sure “we” might.

Hucklebuck on December 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM

Hand’s up, everyone that thinks the GOP will decide that *this* is the hill to fight on, rather than again choosing to ‘live to fight another day’ ?

*Anyone* believe this latest nonsense? I’m loving the constantly morphing messages coming out of GOP; their heads are firmly up their butts.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM

Krazy kwestion: Having folded at the last minute in a debt-ceiling standoff more than once before, why would the GOP’s threats be taken seriously this time? They just caved on the budget in order to avoid any new brinksmanship that might come back to haunt them in the midterms. Now Ryan’s vowing … much more dangerous brinksmanship early next year?

Yep, unless of course, the Boehner-Chamber-of-Commerce-Silicon-Valley Leviathan cut a deal with the Poser-in-Chief.

They both have Amnesty to pass

Poster Boy Ryan is being fished out on the entire MSM spectrum as the greatest thing since they invented fake cheese. That in itself should ring a lot of bells. The MSM is working over rehabilitating the Poster Boy

Almost as if both parties want him crowned

The one thing getting more clear is they want to make a big run for Amnesty sooner not later. They are shaking tambourines at each other instead of spears.

Bet they plan to let Ryan ‘win’ a big powder puff concession. Show bi partisanship, and in return for amnesty, get a budget deal that will go just past election day. Then the game continues

The only thing real in these games is Ryan’s hair

entagor on December 16, 2013 at 12:07 PM

Paul Ryan: ‘obama is soooooo dreamy … whenever he winks at me, I just melt.’

Pork-Chop on December 16, 2013 at 12:07 PM

Yeah. That’s great. A great PR move for Cruz and Lee. Now what do we do? Just sit around and talk about how wonderful two senators out of 100 are?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:01 PM

What do you have in mind?

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Ok, where are the usual suspects from last week telling everyone to get in line behind the Party, that the budget wasn’t the hill to fight for, let’s hear from them.

Hellooooo? Apparatchiks?

Bishop on December 16, 2013 at 12:00 PM

Hey, they are still basking in the glow of the “bipartisan” budget deal that screws over military retirees and vets, raises taxes, and does nothing to curb the expansion of government. But we are supposed to embrace the suck because common sense ideas are simply not “pragmatic” according to the surrender weasels.

I’m interested in seeing how the budget deal fares in the Senate. Leaving aside the people screwed over by the bill, I find it hard to believe that the left will not reward the 99ers with extended welfare.

Happy Nomad on December 16, 2013 at 12:09 PM

Almost as if both parties want him crowned

The one thing getting more clear is they want to make a big run for Amnesty sooner not later. They are shaking tambourines at each other instead of spears.

Bet they plan to let Ryan ‘win’ a big powder puff concession. Show bi partisanship, and in return for amnesty, get a budget deal that will go just past election day. Then the game continues

The only thing real in these games is Ryan’s hair

entagor on December 16, 2013 at 12:07 PM

Of course. He’s easiest to beat by Hillary, or any D.

Indeed, on amnesty. If amnesty passes, Pelosi will deserve to take the hammer back in Jan. 2015. She will have earned it in full.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Ryan said Republicans will will gather after the holidays “and discuss exactly what it is we’re going to try and get”

There seems to be a pattern of not enough trying and very little getting with this crew.

Meremortal on December 16, 2013 at 12:12 PM

Let’s all remember – there is no budget deal yet.

kcewa on December 16, 2013 at 12:12 PM

I’m interested in seeing how the budget deal fares in the Senate. Leaving aside the people screwed over by the bill, I find it hard to believe that the left will not reward the 99ers with extended welfare.

Happy Nomad on December 16, 2013 at 12:09 PM

Watch the senate weasels. They’ll vote to get the bill out of committee and then they’ll all vote against it, having allowed Reid to play thug of the land, for 51.

Going forward stop blaming obama for anything. Blame Boehner, Cantor, McConnell and McCain.

The Rs enable the Utopian thuggish rats on the left. Thus, they are way more culpable for the demise of the land and her kids.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 11:55 AM

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:12 PM

Anyone else here sick of being lied to by GOP members? Anyone else here sick of being explained to by GOP diehards?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM

+100

bw222 on December 16, 2013 at 12:13 PM

When Murray, Reid, Pelosi and obama are happy you know you are their bit*h.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Anyone else here sick of being lied to by GOP members? Anyone else here sick of being explained to by GOP diehards?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Now what do we do?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:01 PM

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Yeah. That’s great. A great PR move for Cruz and Lee. Now what do we do? Just sit around and talk about how wonderful two senators out of 100 are?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:01 PM

What do you have in mind?

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:08 PM

I’m glad you asked!

/CarnivalBarkerOn

I think the liberty amendments are a good idea, but a convention would be a start. There’s no guarantee of success in such an endeavor, and FedGov could just continue to ignore the results as it ignores the constitution now. Nullification acts at the level of the individual states are a must-have if we are to hold FedGov accountable to the constitution.

And along the same vein, if we’re going to get up in FedGov’s grille, we’ll need the states to give their respective counties’ sheriffs the teeth to enforce nullification, up to and including detaining federal agents acting in contravention of state law.

The magic word is subsidiarity. It was written into our founding documents and we pissed it away throughout the 20th century. We need to rediscover it, we need to rediscover it NOW, and we can not depend on the politicians to weaken their own power.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Ryan said Republicans will will gather after the holidays “and discuss exactly what it is we’re going to try and get”

Kind of like trying to re-negotiate the price of a car after you have signed all the paperwork, taken delivery and put 1,000 miles on it.

bw222 on December 16, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Yeah. That’s great. A great PR move for Cruz and Lee. Now what do we do? Just sit around and talk about how wonderful two senators out of 100 are?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:01 PM

I understand your frustration but there isn’t much we can do except try to prepare individually for the oncoming calamity. I’m in favor of withholding votes to try to force the GOP to bend (or more likely, to break) but realistically we don’t have enough time for this strategy to work given what’s happening to the economy.

Doomberg on December 16, 2013 at 12:15 PM

-”Let’s threaten shutdown so Republicans can “defund” Obamcare”.
Low Information Voter: That sounds strange, how do defund a mandate?

-”Let’s threaten shutdown so Republicans can change spending by one percent over ten years”.
Low Information Voter: Both parties are spending idiots, why is the Republicans only solution shutting down national parks?

-”Let’s threaten shutdown to stop raising a never ending debt ceiling”.
Low Information Voter: Hey maybe Republicans have a point. Increasing a $17 trillion dollar credit card does sound like a bad idea. What is the Democrats explanation….oh, none? Maybe I’ll vote Republican.

Fighting a “free stuff” government isn’t easy. Subtle differences may be important. Just differing strategies in an attempt to win majorities in 2014 and 2016.

Norbitz on December 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Indeed, on amnesty. If amnesty passes, Pelosi will deserve to take the hammer back in Jan. 2015. She will have earned it in full.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:11 PM

What are you referring to when you say “amnesty”? Legalization or citizenship or something else?

kcewa on December 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

“Die on this hill here? No, not this hill. I was pointing through this hill when I was saying which hill we’d die on. The next hill? I’ll let you know when we get there.”

NotCoach on December 16, 2013 at 12:17 PM

Does anyone, starting with Obama and Harry Reid, think they GOP will stand firm this time knowing what sort of political backlash it could inspire?


“If you want to believe they will keep their word, you can keep believing they will keep their word. Period. AP.”

But anyone with an emotional age over 18 and a room temperature IQ knows everything Boehner and Ryan say from this point on is aimed at the Republican Low Information Voters because of the backlash building to their betrayal of the sequester in their New Deal.

“Secret Language” – Horseshit! GOPe Sellout

SESSIONS: Well I’m disappointed at that. I think it ceased to be operating as a conference committee. It began to be operating in really sort of a negotiation between the two chairmen. And he senators who were on the budget conference committee were never consulted about the details of the agreement or shown the legislative language until the deal was done.

LEVIN: So even beyond the numbers we’ve been told. Now we have a loophole in the Senate for the big spenders. And rather than a super majority procedure, now they can go through with a simple majority. Do I understand that correctly?

SESSIONS: That absolutely is a factor. Our ability to block spending has been reduced and it amounts to that. On votes that we were able to force a 60 votes on a budget, two points of order would be eliminated.

LEVIN: That’s just—I don’t know how people can call that an oversight. That to me is, and I’m a little slow on the uptake here, on all the rules, but that to me is a huge issue. And how any Republican in the House or Senate can vote for this is amazing to me. Let me ask you this question.

We have a debt ceiling coming up. When does that come up?

SESSIONS: February 15, maybe we could probably continue beyond that before the final deadline is reached, but next spring we’ll hit the debt ceiling and the government can not borrow anymore unless Congress authorizes it.

LEVIN: So they can push that all the way to the spring because of funny numbers. With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Is that correct?

SESSIONS: There’s some limited authority to delay that date.

PolAgnostic on December 16, 2013 at 12:17 PM

The magic word is subsidiarity. It was written into our founding documents and we pissed it away throughout the 20th century. We need to rediscover it, we need to rediscover it NOW, and we can not depend on the politicians to weaken their own power.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:15 PM

We don’t. We know it. Good luck with the sheepleton on the trough and the looters, especially the Ryan kind.

Related, just a good read, alas…

That the people have an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform or change their Government, whenever it be found adverse or inadequate to the purposes of its institution.”

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:17 PM

kcewa on December 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Legalization, with full bennies.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Yeah. That’s great. A great PR move for Cruz and Lee. Now what do we do? Just sit around and talk about how wonderful two senators out of 100 are?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:01 PM

I understand your frustration but there isn’t much we can do except try to prepare individually for the oncoming calamity. I’m in favor of withholding votes to try to force the GOP to bend (or more likely, to break) but realistically we don’t have enough time for this strategy to work given what’s happening to the economy.

Doomberg on December 16, 2013 at 12:15 PM

We do have time to badger our state reps to do something about illegitimate FedGov action. Jussayin…

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Just differing strategies in an attempt to win majorities in 2014 and 2016.

Norbitz on December 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

You will never win a damn thing when you fight your base alongside the Ds. Internalize this, deeply.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:21 PM

Just differing strategies in an attempt to win majorities in 2014 and 2016.

Norbitz on December 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

You also don’t deserve to win a damn thing when you only harp on the other party and don’t display a set, nor any principles to support you for. The RINOs are NO different than Pelosi/Reid, except the latter are bigger Santas, though be they un-PC white ones…from the left that’s ok.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:22 PM

We don’t. We know it. Good luck with the sheepleton on the trough and the looters, especially the Ryan kind.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:17 PM

It’s not the looters I’m worried about. It’s the members of the commentariat, here and elsewhere, that are trying to convince me that voting in a few more Cruzes or Lees will make things better when every practical indication is that it won’t.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:23 PM

What are you referring to when you say “amnesty”? Legalization or citizenship or something else?

kcewa on December 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

There is no way that the left is going to allow a law that would actually be a “pathway to citizenship.” They’ll make a big show of the requirements imposed on the illegals but the reality is that they will have to do nothing except sign up for welfare and register as Democrats.

There already is a path to citizenship- legal immigration. The criminals in this country need to go to the back of the line. They don’t deserve citizenship or any sort of special treatment.

Happy Nomad on December 16, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Tried to tell them, the only hill the GOP is willing to fight for is like the sign in my bunker which says “Free Beer Tomorrow”, when you show up tomorrow to get your free beer I simply point to the sign and say “Come back tomorrow”. Just keep pointing to the sign.

Bishop on December 16, 2013 at 12:24 PM

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:23 PM

You’re right. Let it burn.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:25 PM

What is the point. You will just capitulate and then argue you were just doing it for the Tea Party while in fact you were doing it to use as an attack AGAINST the Tea Party.
While I do not identify as Tea Party, I find them to be 90% less detestable than you Paul Ryan.

astonerii on December 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:23 PM

You’re right. Let it burn.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:25 PM

If by “it,” you mean FedGov. The problem with not giving a shit is that we’re all screwed in the end, and a few of us do deserve better.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:28 PM

No way are the R’s gonna fight on the debt ceiling. They’ll cave. Its inevitable. This is just Kabuki to fool the unwashed masses

tommy71 on December 16, 2013 at 12:31 PM

Legalization, with full bennies.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Thanks. Maybe if the Republicans supported a guest worker program for the illegals then it would neutralize that whole issue? And then we could elect politicians who would enforce our immigration laws. Maybe.

kcewa on December 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Tried to tell them, the only hill the GOP is willing to fight for is like the sign in my bunker which says “Free Beer Tomorrow”, when you show up tomorrow to get your free beer I simply point to the sign and say “Come back tomorrow”. Just keep pointing to the sign.

Bishop on December 16, 2013 at 12:24 PM

I’d gladly pay you next Tuesday for beer today.

oldroy on December 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Thanks. Maybe if the Republicans supported a guest worker program for the illegals then it would neutralize that whole issue? And then we could elect politicians who would enforce our immigration laws. Maybe.

kcewa on December 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM

We have guest worker programs. Numerous guest worker programs. What the amnesty crowd is agitating for is another guest worker program in addition to those we have already, and then only as a means to the end of full amnesty.

See, this is what upsets me so much. There is a “path to citizenship” as well. It takes years of effort, scores of pages of paperwork, and thousands of USD, but it’s there. And many immigrants take advantage of it every year. To talk about the adequacy of the system when we’re not enforcing its laws just spits in the face of these people who do follow the law and do it the right way.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:11 PM

agree

New movie coming to your bankrupted town soon, Whigs, The Sequel starring Secret Santa and his sidekick, Poster Boy

Breitbart 12-15-13: Obama IRS Tightening Noose on Tea Party Groups . Gee just like the last election. Pretty good timing. Any bets the Whigs will sit on the complaints just as they did the last election

Breitbart 12-15-13 Why Business, GOP Attacking Tea Party Could Backfire Big Time:

I used to marvel at the swift collapse of the Whig party in the 19th Century. It was a mystery how a party that had dominated politics imploded so quickly. The events of the past week go a long way to explaining how a major political party can lose its moorings. – MIke Flynn

entagor on December 16, 2013 at 12:38 PM

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:28 PM

In different words, Reagan wasn’t Carter…the convention will be as plausible as the forbidden HA word. Good luck.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:42 PM

See, this is what upsets me so much. There is a “path to citizenship” as well. It takes years of effort, scores of pages of paperwork, and thousands of USD, but it’s there. And many immigrants take advantage of it every year. To talk about the adequacy of the system when we’re not enforcing its laws just spits in the face of these people who do follow the law and do it the right way.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Those who come legally, like my wife, are locked out of any government benefits. Those who come illegally have no such restraints. Not that I would allow her to take any mind, but people who broke the law on the other hand are getting tens of thousands a year in benefits and rarely ever face any penalties for doing so. The reason is simple, the Democrats know these welfare scum are nearly guaranteed Democrat votes if they can legalize them and get them citizenship. So, allowing them to illegally get welfare at the expense of American citizens is a good deal for Democrats.

astonerii on December 16, 2013 at 12:43 PM

I have but three letters for this – Bravo Foxtrot Sierra. The minority half of the bipartisan Party-In-Government told us the last time the debt ceiling was up for debate that the budget is what they would fight over, and we got most of the spending increases the majority half of the PIG wanted along with tax increases when the budget came up.

What’s the definition of insanity again?

Steve Eggleston on December 16, 2013 at 12:44 PM

While I do not identify as Tea Party, I find them to be 90% less detestable than you Paul Ryan.

astonerii on December 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM

+1

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:45 PM

What’s the definition of insanity again?

Steve Eggleston on December 16, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Flukeing the same dead chicken.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:48 PM

And they all oppose ObamaCare…yeah.

d1carter on December 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM

I for one am tired of the kicking of the can. Either we’ve elected the biggest bunch of p-ssies to ever serve in Congress or they’re a bunch of closet progressives who don’t have the stones to admit what they really believe(unlike the Dems who have the “decency” to openly be redistributionists and big spenders) and are jerking us around.

Doughboy on December 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM

What’s this “either” you describe? The two descriptions are not mutually exclusive.

Steve Eggleston on December 16, 2013 at 12:51 PM

entagor on December 16, 2013 at 12:38 PM

Whigs? I submit they’re more like the early-19th Century Federalists, who just couldn’t wait to merge with the Democrat-Republicans.

Steve Eggleston on December 16, 2013 at 12:52 PM

And they all oppose ObamaCare…yeah.

d1carter on December 16, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Who are you going to believe? Mitt Romney or your own lying eyes? LOLOL

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:52 PM

If nothing else, once Republicans do cave, they can use it as a campaign commercial for their audience of grassroots righties to illustrate why it’s so important to get the Senate back in GOP hands in 2015.

that’s always good enough for east coast gopers, won’t work with this grassroots rightie

DanMan on December 16, 2013 at 12:53 PM

If nothing else, once Republicans do cave, they can use it as a campaign commercial for their audience of grassroots righties to illustrate why it’s so important to get the Senate back in GOP hands in 2015.

that’s always good enough for east coast gopers, won’t work with this grassroots rightie

DanMan on December 16, 2013 at 12:53 PM

That makes two of us, Dan.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:53 PM

I’m interested in seeing how the budget deal fares in the Senate. Leaving aside the people screwed over by the bill, I find it hard to believe that the left will not reward the 99ers with extended welfare.

Happy Nomad on December 16, 2013 at 12:09 PM

Despite what MiniCave McConnell says, it will get 80 votes.

Steve Eggleston on December 16, 2013 at 12:55 PM

What’s the definition of insanity again?
Steve Eggleston on December 16, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Don’t worry Charlie Brown, this time I’ll hold the football for your kick. I promise.

tommyboy on December 16, 2013 at 12:55 PM

If nothing else, once Republicans do cave, they can use it as a campaign commercial for their audience of grassroots righties to illustrate why it’s so important to get the Senate back in GOP hands in 2015.

You assume that they are as dopey as the obama-phonelady.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:57 PM

If nothing else, once Republicans do cave, they can use it as a campaign commercial for their audience of grassroots righties to illustrate why it’s so important to get the Senate back in GOP hands in 2015.

If amnesty passes bef. Nov. 2014, they will lose the House.

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Why all of the rage? It’s not like we haven’t known this is what the GOP is for a while now? Why invest the energy in the anger? The GOP is just a joke now. It’s time to move on.

oldroy on December 16, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Why all of the rage? It’s not like we haven’t known this is what the GOP is for a while now? Why invest the energy in the anger? The GOP is just a joke now. It’s time to move on.

oldroy on December 16, 2013 at 12:58 PM

I have moved on. The trick now is convincing others who may have spent their entire adult lives supporting the GOP to do the same.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM

You’re not doing your duty as a GOP politician if you’re not highlighting to the base the next hill you’re sure to die on. Unlike the last time. That last hill – and any measly yet real spending cuts – had to be abandoned for strategic reasons. But next time will be different. Besides, who else you gonna vote for? Democrats?

gwelf on December 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM

and that government of the elected, by the elected, for the elected, shall not perish from the earth. …

d1carter on December 16, 2013 at 1:01 PM

I have moved on. The trick now is convincing others who may have spent their entire adult lives supporting the GOP to do the same.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Maybe they have to come to that conclusion themselves.

oldroy on December 16, 2013 at 1:02 PM

While I do not identify as Tea Party, I find them to be 90% less detestable than you Paul Ryan.

I do more than ever now that I know the McCain side of the GOP hates me. As far as I know the biggest motivator of the Tea Party are fiscal issues. I don’t give a dang where people put their fundles but I don’t want to subsidize the actuarials that come with it and I still get to have my opinion it is disgusting to pursue butt sects

I don’t give wingwangdoo how many abortions a person has I just don’t want to subsidize something I find disgusting and that opinion is not going to be swayed by taxing me for it.

I think it is stupid to destroy the creative people’s motivations to subsidize people who merely feed off the producers taxes. No matter how many times I’m lied to about helping the poor, I still know the motive is to expand the democrat base.

DanMan on December 16, 2013 at 1:03 PM

If the GOP is willing to cave on issues as foundational as this why should we believe for a second they would do anything to roll back Obamacare if elected into control of congress and the Oval Office? They would cave in the face of the first media barrage.

tommyboy on December 16, 2013 at 1:05 PM

You’re not doing your duty as a GOP politician if you’re not highlighting to the base the next hill you’re sure to die on. Unlike the last time. That last hill – and any measly yet real spending cuts – had to be abandoned for strategic reasons. But next time will be different. Besides, who else you gonna vote for? Democrats?

gwelf on December 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM

The next hill to die on is always just over the horizon for today’s GOP.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 1:06 PM

If the GOP is willing to cave on issues as foundational as this why should we believe for a second they would do anything to roll back Obamacare if elected into control of congress and the Oval Office? They would cave in the face of the first media barrage.

tommyboy on December 16, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Obamacare will collapse on it’s own. And the takers will rebel when they don’t get all of the free stuff they were told they would get.

oldroy on December 16, 2013 at 1:08 PM

The No Budget, No Pay Act of 2013 suspended the United States debt ceiling from February 4, 2013 until May 18, 2013.

For roughly 5 months from May 19, 2013 to October 16, 2013, the U.S. Treasury continued to deficit spend beyond the debt limit, using the shell game of “Extraordinary Measures” borrowing that is not considered “subject to limit”, but was repaid (“made whole”) as soon as the debt limit was suspended again on October 17, 2013.

That is why the debt reported by the treasury barely changed from May 19, 2013 to October 16, 2013 and then spiked up by over $328 Billion on October 17, 2013.

And that is why, for all intents and purposes, our government doesn’t really have a debt limit/debt ceiling. When the limit/ceiling is reached, the deficit spending doesn’t stop. Our government continues to deficit spend above the limit/ceiling using “extraordinary measures”, and when the “extraordinary measures” get close to running out, the FALSE THREAT of default is used to raise or “suspend” the debt limit/debt ceiling and the debt spikes up as the “extraordinary measures” are “made whole” again.

It’s a vicious cycle.

And Democrats, who won the 2006 Congressional elections with promises of “No more deficit spending”, have increased the national debt at OVER FOUR TIMES THE RATE of their Republican majority predecessors.

Republican majorities added $4 Trillion to the total national debt over the course of 12 Fiscal Years (FY 1996-2007)

Democrat majorities added over $8 Trillion to the total national debt over the course of just 6 Fiscal Years (FY 2008-2013).

ITguy on December 16, 2013 at 1:11 PM

Breaking now

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 1:11 PM

Thanks. Maybe if the Republicans supported a guest worker program for the illegals then it would neutralize that whole issue? And then we could elect politicians who would enforce our immigration laws. Maybe.

kcewa on December 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Seasonal Agricultural Workers, H-2A is the main area where you could argue we cannot easily fill with citizens. It is very hard for citizens to leave their abode empty. If they are on welfare, it is attached to an address, in a State. Leave your home to work in Nebraska for 2 months and there may not be a home left on return. Further, welfare demands complex arrangements for children. You can lose your kids for not providing according to the bureaucrats. Citizen migrants got regulated out

Only about a million of the 20 million illegals work in Agriculture. The rest pushed Americans out of work, in construction, food processing, slaughterhouses, lawncare, hotel and restaurant, etc.

If the illegals got citizenship right away, they would have minimum wage, Obamacare, and a pack of lawyers. That is why most
Amnesty bills call for a work card and a ten year ‘path’ to citizenship if they ‘prove’ themselves.

This gives the Chamber of Commerce their cheap labor, but many will still become ‘motor voters’, utilize our full welfare and still get the free hospital. Since they would not get Obamacare for years, they would cost employers 4-5K less per head over citizens.

As these people got the Walmart jobs with their work card, they would have a vested interest in the politicians who gave them other people’s jobs. Meanwhile in the low down dirt jobs, bosses would still bring in new illegals they could use and dump.

entagor on December 16, 2013 at 1:13 PM

Once again, let’s take a look at the promises and statements made by Democrats in 2006 – 2008:

2006:

Over the past decade, the Republican controlled Congress took our nation in the wrong direction. Too many Americans are paying a heavy price for those wrong choices: record costs for energy, health care and education; jobs shipped overseas; and budgets that heap record debt on our children. For millions, the middle-class dream has been replaced by a middle-class squeeze…

Democrats are proposing a New Direction for America…

With integrity, civility and fiscal discipline, our New Direction for America will use commonsense principles to address the aspirations and fulfill the hopes and dreams of all Americans. That is our promise to the American people….

Our federal budget should be a statement of our national values. One of those values is responsibility. Democrats are committed to ending years of irresponsible budget policies that have produced historic deficits. Instead of piling trillions of dollars of debt onto our children and grandchildren, we will restore “Pay As You Go” budget discipline.

Budget discipline has been abandoned by the Bush Administration and its Republican congressional majorities. Congress under Republican control has turned a projected $5.6 trillion 10-year surplus at the end of the Clinton years into a nearly $3 trillion deficit– including the four worst deficits in the history of America. The nation’s debt ceiling has been raised four times in just five years to more than $8.9 trillion. Nearly half of our nation’s record debt is owned by foreign countries including China and Japan. Without a return to fiscal discipline, the foreign countries that make our computers, our clothing and our toys will soon be making our foreign policy. Deficit spending is not just a fiscal problem – it’s a national security issue as well.

Our New Direction is committed to “Pay As You Go” budgeting – no more deficit spending.

2007:

After years of historic deficits, this 110th Congress will commit itself to a higher standard: pay-as-you-go, no new deficit spending. Our new America will provide unlimited opportunity for future generations, not burden them with mountains of debt.

- New Speaker Nancy Pelosi, 01/04/2007

2008:

“The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents – #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.

- Barack Obama July 3, 2008

Republican majorities added $4 Trillion to the total national debt over the course of 12 Fiscal Years (FY 1996-2007)

Democrat majorities added over $8 Trillion to the total national debt over the course of just 6 Fiscal Years (FY 2008-2013).

Democrats, after promising fiscal discipline and no more deficit spending, have done the EXACT OPPOSITE, and have been deficit spending at OVER FOUR TIMES THE RATE of their Republican predecessors.

And remember, the last budget passed by a Republican House, Republican Senate, and Republican President was passed in 2006 for FY 2007 and resulted in a deficit of less than $161 Billion.

Democrats made deficit spending and the national debt a campaign issue in 2006 and won both houses of Congress with promises of fiscal discipline and “no more deficit spending”.

Now, Democrats think that fiscal discipline is old and busted…

ITguy on December 16, 2013 at 1:13 PM

Why even pretend that they are gonna fight? We all know they won’t, including the Dems. And Obamas numbers have slowly started creeping up. I guess the whole GOP strategy of sitting by and not saying a word about the obamacare fiasco is working great, huh? Useless.

Jack_Burton on December 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM

Why even pretend that they are gonna fight? We all know they won’t, including the Dems. And Obamas numbers have slowly started creeping up. I guess the whole GOP strategy of sitting by and not saying a word about the obamacare fiasco is working great, huh? Useless.

Jack_Burton on December 16, 2013 at 1:15 PM

The same reason Iran “negotiates”. Just to stall for time.

oldroy on December 16, 2013 at 1:17 PM

-”Let’s threaten shutdown so Republicans can “defund” Obamcare”.
Low Information Voter: That sounds strange, how do defund a mandate?

-”Let’s threaten shutdown so Republicans can change spending by one percent over ten years”.
Low Information Voter: I like that new Katy Perry song. Both parties are spending idiots, why is the Republicans only solution shutting down national parks?

-”Let’s threaten shutdown to stop raising a never ending debt ceiling”.
Low Information Voter: Hey , you gonna see Weatherman II.I sort of want to see that new HObbit movie. maybe Republicans have a point. Increasing a $17 trillion dollar credit card does sound like a bad idea. What is the Democrats explanation….oh, none? Maybe I’ll vote Republican.

/just using your post to snark – not disagreeing.

Norbitz on December 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

BoxHead1 on December 16, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Thanks. Maybe if the Republicans supported a guest worker program for the illegals then it would neutralize that whole issue?

kcewa

1. We already have a guess worker program.
2. A guest worker program for illegals is amnesty. It legalizes their status and rewards them for their illegal activity.

No, it wouldn’t neutralize the issue. On the contrary, it would simply encourage them to push for even more because you’ve already shown you’re willing to cave, and have admitted that illegals have a right to be here.

I have a better idea. Stand up for Americans, and stand up for right versus wrong. It’s worked pretty well in the past.

xblade on December 16, 2013 at 1:56 PM

The GOP are retards.

Mr. Arrogant on December 16, 2013 at 1:57 PM

That some budget paul……

proposes cuts in the future while eliminating cuts in the present that you promised to make in the past!

roflmmfao

donabernathy on December 16, 2013 at 2:08 PM

Every republican in DC with the exception of Cruz is afraid of their own shadow.
Afraid of the dems and afraid of the media.

The only thing they’re not scared of is the conservative base.

What we have is a bunch of cowards, it’s that simple.

ouldbollix on December 16, 2013 at 2:11 PM

who else you gonna vote for? Democrats?

gwelf on December 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Is there a difference?

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 2:12 PM

The GOP are retards.

Mr. Arrogant on December 16, 2013 at 1:57 PM

That’s insulting to retards.

ouldbollix on December 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM

In other new, Paul Ryan sells out his party

ConservativePartyNow on December 16, 2013 at 2:17 PM

For all the leftists and RINOs

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 2:20 PM

Wow, just when you think the GOP can’t sink any lower….

..here you go, let’s play who said this:

“..I plan on calling out the GOP when they don’t stick
to principles, and instead make cheap attempts to appease
the Left”.

ToddPA on December 16, 2013 at 2:34 PM

The nation’s budget course is set for the next three years whether one likes it or not. The only vote that will matter is November 2016 and that vote will be cast by the voting public not by congress.

KW64 on December 16, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Right tack! Right tack! What do you mean we’re rudderless.Yep Paul that’s what happens when you don’t have principles.RINOs are rudderless!

redware on December 16, 2013 at 2:46 PM

Paul Ryan on the budget deal: Hey, we might fight on the debt ceiling instead

How many billion in new taxes and new spending will be enough to make Ryan happy?

Freddy on December 16, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Bmore

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 2:52 PM

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