Ryan on budget fight – Let’s keep it in the family

posted at 3:31 pm on December 15, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

The Sunday morning shows trotted out the inevitable topic of the “GOP Civil War” yet again today (since there’s really no topic they’d rather talk about), and Paul Ryan was the target du jour. Meet the Press, after an unending series of shows demanding to know why Republicans can’t be reasonable and come to an agreement with Democrats and just “do their job” lost no time in grilling the Congressman on how he could possibly put up with the elements in his own party who didn’t agree with him. Can’t you Republicans all just get along?

Rep. Paul Ryan says he was frustrated with conservative groups that protested the bipartisan budget deal he helped engineer.

The House Budget Committee chairman tells NBC’s “Meet the Press” that these groups are “very important elements” of the conservative movement. But the Wisconsin Republican says such discussions should be kept “within the family.”

Ryan says he and House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio were frustrated that the groups voiced opposition to the budget agreement before it had been reached.

That’s probably not a bad idea, but, “keeping it in the family” is a bit harder when that’s all the press wants to talk about. Of course, once you’ve accepted the invitation to come on the shows, it’s rather hard to dictate what they want to talk about. A snappy answer of, “that’s none of your business” doesn’t play too well either.

He was also asked about the rather irate responses from Speaker Boehner on the same subject, and he broke out the Irish.

House Speaker John Boehner was peeved last week at conservative groups that blasted a bipartisan budget agreement before one was even announced. But House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan said it was really just that Irish temper of his.

“I think John just kind of got his Irish up. He was frustrated that these groups came out against our budget agreement before we reached a budget agreement. I was frustrated too,” Ryan said on NBC’s “Meet The Press.”

Three leading conservative groups – Club for Growth, Heritage Action for America and Americans for Prosperity – have all been in a dispute with Boehner over last week’s budget deal.

This is really the larger challenge facing the GOP leadership in Washington in the wake of the House deal. Heritage, CFG and the other groups really have the same goals as Paul Ryan. They’re just currently not looking at the same map in terms of how to get from Point A to Point B. And that really is a conversation they should have in private. But no matter what the talking heads say, they really have no interest in talking about Congress getting something done as long as the GOP is in charge of the lower chamber. Given the opportunity, they’ll fan the flames of GOP domestic violence every chance they get, just like they did in the 2012 primary debates.

Ryan and Boehner can’t really avoid doing any press, but they should get better at softening their answers and forcing the media to give them the space to have these discussions behind closed doors. Paul Ryan didn’t do too badly at it today, but they could all use a bit more practice.


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…from what I understand a Constitutional Convention could breed even more chaos than we have now.

Cindy Munford on December 15, 2013 at 6:48 PM

Think about the up-side if you succeeded though. Potentially you have the numbers to force through an amendment declaring that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you could get extreme language like that in the Constitution, there would be no room for a so-called debate on guns, right?

David Blue on December 15, 2013 at 6:53 PM

David Blue on December 15, 2013 at 6:48 PM

I agree, “our” guys will sell each other out in a heart beat but then they seldom go on to win. Reagan in 1976 was my first memory of shafting the base.

Cindy Munford on December 15, 2013 at 6:54 PM

David Blue on December 15, 2013 at 6:53 PM

I like the limitations of Levine’s plan better. I don’t trust Democrats in a full blown convention or our idiots need to compromise.

Cindy Munford on December 15, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Then we are in the same camp, friend. I’m just trying to break it plainly to folks who are starry-eyed in their expectations over what this ‘Levin process’ is or isn’t going to do.

I do think that it’s a fools errand, and will cost us time that may prove to our detriment in the long run, unfortunately.

Midas on December 15, 2013 at 6:43 PM

I believe that Mark Levin’s Roadmap for The Article Five Process is the Best and ONLY path to truly FIX our Republic……

…..short of a French Revolution-Style Slaughter-Scenario with a guillotine……

williamg on December 15, 2013 at 6:57 PM

INC on December 15, 2013 at 6:38 PM

I see your point..But should Heritage have run ads “targeting” GOP members during the “Defund Strategy” that even they (Heritage) knew was not going to work??..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM

I agree, “our” guys will sell each other out in a heart beat but then they seldom go on to win. Reagan in 1976 was my first memory of shafting the base.

Cindy Munford on December 15, 2013 at 6:54 PM

Good example!

And as far as I can recall, nobody in the establishment who is all for “the party of Reagan” now was for him when he was a live political issue.

David Blue on December 15, 2013 at 6:59 PM

Then we are in the same camp, friend. I’m just trying to break it plainly to folks who are starry-eyed in their expectations over what this ‘Levin process’ is or isn’t going to do.

I do think that it’s a fools errand, and will cost us time that may prove to our detriment in the long run, unfortunately.

Midas on December 15, 2013 at 6:43 PM

I believe that Mark Levin’s Roadmap for The Article Five Process is the Best and ONLY path to truly FIX our Republic……

…..short of a French Revolution-Style Slaughter-Scenario with a guillotine……

williamg on December 15, 2013 at 6:59 PM

That certainly sounds like us, and that’s my point. I’m not sure how you hope to get a Socialist medical system out of a Fascist government. Do you expect to get kittens when your dog gets pregnant?

DFCtomm on December 15, 2013 at 6:46 PM

I agree, the solution is going to have to be imposed from outside of Washington DC by the American people. The solution isn’t going to come from anybody inside of Washington DC nor any of the governors, IMO. We need a champion of freedom and liberty from outside of the political arena, and Edward Snowden is at the top of my list. As long as he’s not a Marxist or fascist then I’m willing to compromise to get him into the White House because I am confident that, unlike anybody in Washington DC, Edward Snowden will help us put a leash back on Washington DC.

FloatingRock on December 15, 2013 at 7:01 PM

Think about the up-side if you succeeded though. Potentially you have the numbers to force through an amendment declaring that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you could get extreme language like that in the Constitution, there would be no room for a so-called debate on guns, right?

David Blue on December 15, 2013 at 6:53 PM

They would pass a law defining arms as flintlocks. This is all “monkey’s paw” stuff, but I know one thing. When people want to cheat they are very, very good at finding ways to do it, so good in fact that I’ve never seen a system that was completely successful in stopping them. You get that if you devolve into a people that condones lying, and cheating, then you’ll have a government that lies and cheats, and no words on paper will fix that.

DFCtomm on December 15, 2013 at 7:02 PM

An article 5 convention is the worst course we could take. The left would rewrite the entire bill of rights. Politics will not save our country and that includes the Article 5 convention. The country is too far gone.

bgibbs1000 on December 15, 2013 at 7:04 PM

First off Reagan would not say that

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 6:51 PM

Uhhhh – WRONG!! Reagan DID say that:…

“I didn’t leave the Democratic party, the Democratic Party left me.”

― Ronald Reagan Read more quotes from Ronald Reagan

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/837554-i-didn-t-leave-the-democratic-party-the-democratic-party-left

….he ALSO said what you quoted…..

williamg on December 15, 2013 at 7:04 PM

An article 5 convention is the worst course we could take. The left would rewrite the entire bill of rights. Politics will not save our country and that includes the Article 5 convention. The country is too far gone.

bgibbs1000 on December 15, 2013 at 7:04 PM

….you’re WRONG - because “The Left” Does NOT Control ENOUGH of the State Legislatures which would be DETERMINING the Convention’s Scope

williamg on December 15, 2013 at 7:06 PM

Does anybody care about what someone who had their clock cleaned by Bite-Me thinks?

Ryan who never found Big Government he didn’t sign up for, LOL

The only family you and the Squeaker are in is the Bush Mafia.

It’s the corruption, stupid. Conservatives are 100% fed up!

Jayrae on December 15, 2013 at 7:19 PM

williamg on December 15, 2013 at 7:04 PM

Thanks..I knew that..I took it that the commenter was saying Reagan would say it it about GOP..Therefore my usage of Reagan quote..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:21 PM

If that 20% of the time the GOPe votes with the Democrats against the will of the base is on the major issues…. like Obamacare funding ( which the House promised to DEFUND, yet just passed a bill fully funding Obamcare for two years) … like amnesty ( the GOPe plans to pass the Gang of Eight bill …. they just plan to do it in chunks…don’t believe me? You’ve probably heard Ryan and Boehner’s view on amnesty… here’s Ted Cruz Ted Cruz on immigration at Texas Tribune Fest 2013… and here he is in print Cruz aims for middle ground on immigration )…and like cutting military pensions cost of living adjustment… gutting the sequester… and throwing away procedural tools that allow the minority to avoid being run over rough shod by the majority in the senate. This last, the procedural that required 60 votes to send a bill to the House, is in preparation for pushing through immigration reform…just for openers.

… it pretty well destroys the conservative position on vital issues.

Nice, though, that they’ll vote with conservatives on … you know… the other 80% of issues.

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2013 at 7:21 PM

That’s why I think Mark Levin’s idea of having the states hold a new constitutional convention may be the only solution…

FloatingRock on December 15, 2013 at 4:41 PM

The supposition being, of course, that the federal government, which ignores and breaks the Constitution whenever they please, will for some reason adhere to the limits that would arise from the state convention?

Seriously, is there any reason to believe they would abide by anything that came out of that process?

Midas on December 15, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Good point, they ignore the Constitution now so what’s to change that? Maybe term limits would help. Perhaps there should be a constitutional mechanism to sack the government. For example, perhaps if voter turnout falls below a certain level, or a vote of no-confidence in a national referendum, then every elected official will be sacked and all new elections should be held for every seat. That would help eliminate the problem of sending a minority of new legislators to Washington DC only to have them corrupted by the entrenched good-old-boys that are already there.

I think there are other ways to restructure the government that would make it answerable to the American people rather than K-Street.

FloatingRock on December 15, 2013 at 7:23 PM

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2013 at 7:21 PM

Good to see you..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:24 PM

Then we are in the same camp, friend. I’m just trying to break it plainly to folks who are starry-eyed in their expectations over what this ‘Levin process’ is or isn’t going to do.

I do think that it’s a fools errand, and will cost us time that may prove to our detriment in the long run, unfortunately.

Midas on December 15, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Well, shee-it, son. What we’re doing now isn’t working, is it? That’s the whole problem; the fact that so few people are willing to engage in a fool’s errand in order to do the right thing.

Let me say it again, as it bears repeating: Fully one third of the colonists in 1776 were British loyalists and opposed breaking away from the crown. Another one third were indifferent, which left only one third of the population of the colonies in favor of independence. Of that number, many included women and those otherwise unable to fight, physically or otherwise.

We are a nation of cowards. And I would expect better from people that call themselves “conservatives.”

/ptooey

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 7:26 PM

I think there are other ways to restructure the government that would make it answerable to the American people rather than K-Street.

FloatingRock on December 15, 2013 at 7:23 PM

I can tell you what’s not working: expecting a few rookies to change the system when it’s the system itself that’s broken. God bless Msrs. Cruz and Lee, but the way to solve the problems wrought by politicians is not to swap out a few politicians.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:24 PM

Good evening, Dire. :)

Good to see you, too.

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2013 at 7:29 PM

Good to see you..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 6:41 PM

Dire!!! How we doing bud? ; )

Bmore on December 15, 2013 at 7:30 PM

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2013 at 7:29 PM

Don’t you just love these GOP “family” debates??!!??..:):)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:31 PM

An article 5 convention is the worst course we could take. The left would rewrite the entire bill of rights. Politics will not save our country and that includes the Article 5 convention. The country is too far gone.

bgibbs1000 on December 15, 2013 at 7:04 PM

And Gibbsy, I’m sorry. God love ya, but this is just blisteringly ignorant. Whatever a constitutional convention comes up with must still be ratified by 3/4 of the states. Not 3/4 of the people. My own home state of South Dakota, blood-red as it is, gets an equal vote with socialist shitholes like California and New York. I’d say a convention is a start, but the states must stand ready to protect their own prerogatives in whatever manner necessary — up to and including authorizing county law enforcement to detain federal agents.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 7:33 PM

Bmore on December 15, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Good to see you..Sorry I messed up the first time I tried to say it..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:33 PM

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:33 PM

No worries. I saw the comment and quote and new exactly what you meant. Lolz! I too was heading out the door at that precise moment. Maybe catch up on QOTD if you have the chance. I’ll try to make it over that way this evening for a change. ; )

Bmore on December 15, 2013 at 7:37 PM

I can tell you what’s not working: expecting a few rookies to change the system when it’s the system itself that’s broken. God bless Msrs. Cruz and Lee, but the way to solve the problems wrought by politicians is not to swap out a few politicians.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM

The system isn’t broke. It’s basically the same as it ever was. It’s the people that are broken. It’s the people that allow politicians to ignore the Constitution as long as they keep the sugar flowing, but I don’t know how to fix that.

DFCtomm on December 15, 2013 at 7:38 PM

Bmore on December 15, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Will do..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:38 PM

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:31 PM

Absolutely. Just tons of fun. :)

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2013 at 7:40 PM

Tell you what, Rep. Ryan, the next time you have a beef with the base of your party don’t go running to the MFM to run your mouth off against them, ok?

You might perform some outreach to the base of the party… if you know how to do that…

Do you know how to do that?

You do know some of those people, right?

I mean you aren’t just limited to a few buddies in DC and who run your campaign, right?

Hmmm… you haven’t really been able to do that… even campaigning with Romney you were notable by your absence in many venues… you do know that your party does have people other than big money hotshots in it, don’t you? And that they actually put more money into the party, more effort into the party and, most importantly, more time in the party than the big money hotshots? You ever think about that, Rep. Ryan?

Why is it you always blow up against your own base and never anyone else?

What is your dysfunction?

Can’t pick up a phone?

Can’t write an e-mail?

Don’t have a competent staff? You really should stop hiring incompetents if they can’t do this stuff for you.

In any event, the next time if YOU decide to actually REACH OUT to your party’s BASE to talk with them to find out what their problems are, then you might find they will talk WITH you and not want to be talked AT. And the message is clear.

STOP THE SPENDING.

ajacksonian on December 15, 2013 at 7:44 PM

thatsafactjack on December 15, 2013 at 7:40 PM

I hear you..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 7:45 PM

The system isn’t broke. It’s basically the same as it ever was. It’s the people that are broken. It’s the people that allow politicians to ignore the Constitution as long as they keep the sugar flowing, but I don’t know how to fix that.

DFCtomm on December 15, 2013 at 7:38 PM

I told you how to fix that. You don’t want to acccept it. And here we are.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 8:01 PM

First off Reagan would not say that Here is what Reagan said..”The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor.”
Ronald Reagan..:)

Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 6:51 PM

It kinda depends on what’s in the 20%. The Catholic Church teaches there are mortal sins and venial sins. In my book, supporting amnesty, which will destroy the country as we know it, is a mortal sin. I realize the bishops may not agree with me.

bw222 on December 15, 2013 at 8:07 PM

It kinda depends on what’s in the 20%.

bw222 on December 15, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Absolutely – a chain is only as strong as its weakest link! :)

Anti-Control on December 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

It kinda depends on what’s in the 20%. The Catholic Church teaches there are mortal sins and venial sins. In my book, supporting amnesty, which will destroy the country as we know it, is a mortal sin. I realize the bishops may not agree with me.

bw222 on December 15, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Take a long hard look, ladies and gentlemen. The cads who agree with you when they are running for office and then stab you in the back when it comes time to implement policy are not 80% friends or 20% friends or whatever. They are liars and they deserve to be castigated and ostracized as-such.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 8:15 PM

The system isn’t broke. It’s basically the same as it ever was.

DFCtomm on December 15, 2013 at 7:38 PM

Another blisteringly ignorant statement from someone who doesn’t know shit from shinola. The existence of three institutions, their establishment all within the last 100 years, belies your assertion:

1. The sixteenth amendment

2. The seventeenth amendment

3. The Federal Reserve

I don’t believe the system is broken beyond repair, but the system is broken. And denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Hell, I’ll see your 16th, 17th, and Fed, and raise you a New Deal and Medicare! How anyone older than me can say the system isn’t broken, that our problems are not only political but also systemic in nature, is utterly beyond me!

/Ptooey!

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

I believe that Mark Levin’s Roadmap for The Article Five Process is the Best and ONLY path to truly FIX our Republic……

…..short of a French Revolution-Style Slaughter-Scenario with a guillotine……

williamg on December 15, 2013 at 6:57 PM

Then you actually believe the Obama administration, the Congress, and the Supreme Court would respect the results of that process – rather than ignore it, or rule it to be non-binding? These guys ignore the Constitution *daily*, remember.

Midas on December 15, 2013 at 8:42 PM

Ryan IS someone’s local conservative. Or did you forget that congressional elections only happen at the respective states’ level?
gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 6:17 PM

Respectfully disagree. He’s a local republican not conservative. If you could name one conservative principle that he subscribes to, it still doesn’t make him a conservative any more than a prolife democrat. Put another way, do you and Ryan agree 80% of the time? If you only agree 67% of the time then maybe someone ought to step up and send Ryan home to find and hold a real job for once in his life.

Needless to say Ryan won’t be attending any constitutional conferences as that would hamper his roadmap to power.

AH_C on December 15, 2013 at 8:51 PM

Then you actually believe the Obama administration, the Congress, and the Supreme Court would respect the results of that process – rather than ignore it, or rule it to be non-binding? These guys ignore the Constitution *daily*, remember.

Midas on December 15, 2013 at 8:42 PM

That’s why you pass a nullification amendment. And each state should empower its sheriff’s to enforce it.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Ah, I see that s_e_c_e_d_e is on the bad list.

Midas on December 15, 2013 at 9:00 PM

That’s why you pass a nullification amendment. And each state should empower its sheriff’s to enforce it.
gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 8:52 PM

This. If 1/3 of the republicans accepted nothing less than conservative principles and voted accordingly every time, the party would move dramatically rightward. If 1/3 of Americans held the body politic fast to constitution, we’d be reversing this decline. Unfortunately too many are focused only on the short term–winning yet another race for team red or blue instead of long term for team America so we debate which is the lesser of two evils. The fact that we’re discussing “evil” should be a clue that we’re on the godless slippery slope.

AH_C on December 15, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Respectfully disagree. He’s a local republican not conservative.

AH_C on December 15, 2013 at 8:51 PM

I don’t disagree. But what matters is how his constituents see him. And the electorate responsible for putting that rat-bastard into office is from only one state.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 9:11 PM

I don’t disagree. But what matters is how his constituents see him. And the electorate responsible for putting that rat-bastard into office is from only one state.
gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Yes his district is responsible for putting him in office again and again. But as you noted with the 1 third principle, that’s the magic number for critical mass. It’s easy to disguise a craven political instinct when you appear to fight the good fight until you have to defend principles. Ryan talks a good game but where was he when walker was fighting the good fight of his life? Me thinks after this latest betrayal he won’t be looking so rosy. But for sure he’s a goner if 1/3 of his electorate gets pissed and vocal. That’s where conservative voices and groups are to be commended for banging the drums.

Which ties into Dire’s comment. With a mindset like that, the founding fathers should have never bucked king George and all of his men who take and take from the fruits of our toil just because they need to maintain their affluenza.

I see your point..But should Heritage have run ads “targeting” GOP members during the “Defund Strategy” that even they (Heritage) knew was not going to work??
Dire Straits on December 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Knew it was not going to work? Here’s another quote from long ago. Stand together or we’ll surely hanging separately. Had every swinging GOPe hung together in the run up to slimdown, they would have been in a much stronger position to bend the spending curve downwards. The OboobiCare meltdown would have just been icing on the cake. But here we are discussing dirty laundry in a dysfunctional family. Well that family ain’t my family because I’ve been long estranged from it and finally divorced it. Reagan was a loyal democract until the party left him. I was a loyal republican since voting for Reagan in 80. But the party left me less than 20 years later. More like 8 years when pappy Bush couldn’t wait to exorcise voodoo economics. Good riddance to puts like Ryan, Mittness and the cronyists and the addled brained sheeple that enable the GOPe.

AH_C on December 15, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Jazz Shaw and Hot Air working hard to pull the regressives over the finish line.

astonerii on December 15, 2013 at 4:42 PM

You have to blame Michelle Malkin. She hired AP and Ed, knowing both were on the left side of the GOP and then sold out to Salem. Once again, greed triumphs over principle.

bw222 on December 15, 2013 at 4:49 PM

I only really go to HotGas for the comments, as they tend to be more interesting than the articles themselves. I don’t mind Ed and AP, but have yet to see anything compelling by Jazz and Guy.

Fans of Twitchy should be in mourning over the moderate muddle it will be dragged into over the next few weeks.

Myron Falwell on December 15, 2013 at 11:51 PM

AH_C on December 15, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Yes that shutdown sure put the GOP in a great position..The GOP popularity went down..:(

PS..Good Luck with leaving the GOP..I wish you well with the 3rd party..:)

Dire Straits on December 16, 2013 at 12:22 AM

bw222 on December 15, 2013 at 8:07 PM

I was referring to politics not religion..As I feel Reagan was..:)

Dire Straits on December 16, 2013 at 12:33 AM

Yes that shutdown sure put the GOP in a great position..The GOP popularity went down..:(PS..Good Luck with leaving the GOP..I wish you well with the 3rd party..:)
Dire Straits on December 16, 2013 at 12:22 AM

You’re right, not in the great position but could have if McVain, King, grahamnasty didn’t lead the way in knocking down the effort. If all of them had stood fast against Reid and Oboobi It would have had given them a great position since it was a slimdown, not a shutdown. But they were afraid of getting in the way of the OboobiCare fallout.
Don’t come crying to us when you get betrayed again and again by the GOPe.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 2:17 AM

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 2:17 AM

Good deal..I will not come crying..:)

Dire Straits on December 16, 2013 at 2:52 AM

Stay home on election day. The GOP is not conservative and never will be unless we do something. And “working to get conservatives elected” is hogwash. Wasn’t Paul Ryan one of the rising conservative super stars we were depending on?

The party corrupts. The establishment corrupts. And most of the individuals running as “conservatives” aren’t. they are opportunists.

As long as the party believes that conservatives will vote for them no matter what they do, the party will not change. The ONLY way to disabuse the party of the notion that they have conservative votes locked up is for conservatives to stay home en masse.

Otherwise, you are simply rewarding GOP bad behavior and telling them to keep doing what they always do – increase spending and increase gov’t.

Those on here who are GOP loyalists and believe “we have to vote for the GOP or dems will win” simply do not understand reality. They believe the GOP is a conservative party. it is not. It never was. The GOP was not formed as a conservative party and has never been a conservative party. The GOP has some conservatives in it. That is all.

The GOP as a whole has ALWAYS fought conservatives and conservatism. The GOP hated Reagan until he won and had coat-tails, and even after that, they often fought him.

The GOP has done everything in its power to keep any conservative from ever being the presidential nominee again. The GOP always strives to undercut any truly conservative candidate in any primary.

The GOP fights tooth and nail against any conservative policy and does everything it can to marginalize any conservative actually elected (see Cruz, Ted, for instance).

The GOP has never truly pursued any conservative policy or principle. It has never cut spending or cut the scope or size of gov’t.

The idea that electing an “R” majority (as the GOP is currently constituted) is a victory for conservatives is asinine. It will be a victory for the GOP and a loss for conservatism as the GOP will do anti-conservative things and work to undercut any power conservatives have built up within the GOP.

The choice is easy. If we want the GOP to move right, we have to sit out and not vote for the GOP.

Yes, there is a chance that will result in the GOP deciding to move left and abandon any pretense and conservatism, but if the GOP does that, doesn’t that just prove the point? That it isn’t, never was and never will be conservative?

I can say one thing for certain – doing the same thing (supporting the GOP) and hoping that the results are different (the GOP actually pursuing conservative goals rather than just giving them lip service) fits the definition of insanity.

How many times does Lucy have to pull the football away from Charlie Brown before Charlie Brown learns? Charlie Brown is a comic-strip character – he can’t learn. We are real people. We should be able to learn.

Monkeytoe on December 16, 2013 at 8:15 AM

Yes that shutdown sure put the GOP in a great position..The GOP popularity went down..:(

PS..Good Luck with leaving the GOP..I wish you well with the 3rd party..:)

Dire Straits on December 16, 2013 at 12:22 AM

It’s fine that you want to stick with the GOP. But don’t pretend to be a conservative. At best you are a party loyalist. It makes no difference to you what the party does, you only care about “your party” winning.

Don’t cry to conservatives when the GOP, as always, raises spending, increases the size and scope of gov’t and does tons of other liberal things.

Again, I will say it – doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. For some reason, you believe the GOP will “change” this time. Good luck with that.

Monkeytoe on December 16, 2013 at 8:18 AM

At best you are a party loyalist. It makes no difference to you what the party does, you only care about “your party” winning.

Monkeytoe on December 16, 2013 at 8:18 AM

+infinity!

Anti-Control on December 16, 2013 at 8:24 AM

Another blisteringly ignorant statement from someone who doesn’t know shit from shinola. The existence of three institutions, their establishment all within the last 100 years, belies your assertion:

1. The sixteenth amendment

2. The seventeenth amendment

3. The Federal Reserve

I don’t believe the system is broken beyond repair, but the system is broken. And denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

gryphon202 on December 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Well, if you want to be an ass about it, then fine. I’ve been up all night and I’m ready to be an ass. You’re a demented simpleton if you think you’re going to amend the Constitution. I’ve been nice till now because generally I agree with you, but if you want to sling poo then lets sling poo.

DFCtomm on December 16, 2013 at 11:27 AM

Well, if you want to be an ass about it, then fine. I’ve been up all night and I’m ready to be an ass. You’re a demented simpleton if you think you’re going to amend the Constitution. I’ve been nice till now because generally I agree with you, but if you want to sling poo then lets sling poo.

DFCtomm on December 16, 2013 at 11:27 AM

If you are correct, and I’m perfectly willing to concede that you might be, then America as our founding fathers established it, is already lost.

But you go right ahead living in comfort until shit hits the fan. I suspect you won’t find many friends in the circles I hang out in, so I hope you them among your fellow cowards and that they will sustain you. I’m not ready to give up the fight yet.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM

If you are correct, and I’m perfectly willing to concede that you might be, then America as our founding fathers established it, is already lost.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM

Now you’re starting to figure it out. Did you buy a vowel?

But you go right ahead living in comfort until shit hits the fan. I suspect you won’t find many friends in the circles I hang out in, so I hope you them among your fellow cowards and that they will sustain you. I’m not ready to give up the fight yet.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM

Well, you fight on Johnny Reb. I’ll be by the pool.

DFCtomm on December 16, 2013 at 11:59 AM

If you are correct, and I’m perfectly willing to concede that you might be, then America as our founding fathers established it, is already lost.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM

Now you’re starting to figure it out. Did you buy a vowel?

DFCtomm on December 16, 2013 at 11:59 AM

You sound like you’re okay with this. I’m not. I guess we’ll have to chalk that up to a difference opinion. Just don’t fling any of that “no one has any alternatives” bullshit at me. You and I both know that’s not true.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:05 PM

You sound like you’re okay with this.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:05 PM

I flailed around quiet a bit, wailed and gnashed my teeth, but then came to realize that the only thing that could save the country was the people around me. Then I started looking at the people around me and realized it was hopeless. I’m headed out to the pool now, later gater.

DFCtomm on December 16, 2013 at 12:25 PM

Ahh. Chomped by the jaws of despair. Have fun in that pool until FedGov says you can’t use it anymore. ;)

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Ahh. Chomped by the jaws of despair. Have fun in that pool until FedGov says you can’t use it anymore. ;)

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 12:30 PM

You didn’t ask the 64 dollar question. What’s wrong with the people? What did I see that made me realize the whole thing was doomed? It was because everybody around me was worried about elections and Constitutional amendments. Johnny Reb couldn’t even find the battlefield. I’ll sell you a vowel now.

“The Revolution was effected before the War commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments of their duties and obligations. This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution.”

DFCtomm on December 16, 2013 at 12:55 PM

You didn’t ask the 64 dollar question. What’s wrong with the people? What did I see that made me realize the whole thing was doomed? It was because everybody around me was worried about elections and Constitutional amendments. Johnny Reb couldn’t even find the battlefield. I’ll sell you a vowel now.

“The Revolution was effected before the War commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments of their duties and obligations. This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution.”

DFCtomm on December 16, 2013 at 12:55 PM

I think I might have mentioned it upthread here, but it bears repeating:

1/3 of the colonists were against independence. Another 1/3 didn’t care. That left 1/3 of the colonists to support the revolution, and a good number of them did not fight in the continental army for various reasons.

You may be solidly in a majority, feeling the way you do. I dunno, but it wouldn’t surprise me. That will be of small consolation, I’m sure, when we all end up getting screwed without so much as the courtesy of a reach-around. And believe me, you’ll feel it just as keenly as anyone.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Monkeytoe on December 16, 2013 at 8:18 AM

I consider myself conservative..I am a GOP “loyalist”
in the regard that I live in “Realville”..The GOP is the mechanism that can defeat the liberals and the Democrats..Staying at home or trying to form a third party is not the way to defeat the Democrats..Does the GOP make mistakes?..Sure they do..Do I agree with their every move? No I don’t..It is my hope that the GOP can stay together and form a bigger tent..If we do that we can start winning more elections..I disagree with this “purity test” some folks are doing..You cannot get addition using subtraction..As far as politics go..Staying at home and not voting is the definition of insanity..Good luck with that..:)

Dire Straits on December 16, 2013 at 6:26 PM

I consider myself conservative..I am a GOP “loyalist”
in the regard that I live in “Realville”..The GOP is the mechanism that can defeat the liberals and the Democrats..Staying at home or trying to form a third party is not the way to defeat the Democrats..Does the GOP make mistakes?..Sure they do..Do I agree with their every move? No I don’t..It is my hope that the GOP can stay together and form a bigger tent..If we do that we can start winning more elections..I disagree with this “purity test” some folks are doing..You cannot get addition using subtraction..As far as politics go..Staying at home and not voting is the definition of insanity..Good luck with that..:)

Dire Straits on December 16, 2013 at 6:26 PM

I’m not even talking about forming a third party. I’m talking about making “a pox on both their house” official policy at the state level. I’m talking about sheriff’s throwing federal agents in the clink for violating state/county/city laws as applicable. If wanting to follow the constitution as it was written makes me a “purist,” so be it. But tell me, Dire, just how has “vote the bums out” been working for you?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 6:46 PM

But tell me, Dire, just how has “vote the bums out” been working for you?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 6:46 PM

Not great..Patience is a virtue..:)

Dire Straits on December 16, 2013 at 7:56 PM

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