Study shows it was warmer in Roman times than today

posted at 2:46 pm on December 13, 2013 by Jeff Dunetz

Scientists may have figured out why Romans wore togas and the global warming theorists are not going to be pleased. A new study by Swiss scientists finds the earth was warmer during Roman and Medieval times than it is today, which indicates that greenhouse gases may not be the driving force behind the modern global warming trend.

The study, by scientist Leif Kullman, analyzed 455 “radiocarbon-dated mega-fossils” in the Scandes Mountains and found that tree lines for different species of trees were higher during the Roman and Medieval times than they are today. Not only that, but the temperatures were higher as well.

“Historical tree line positions are viewed in relation to early 21st century equivalents, and indicate that tree line elevations attained during the past century and in association with modern climate warming are highly unusual, but not unique, phenomena from the perspective of the past 4,800 years,” Kullman found. “Prior to that, the pine tree line (and summer temperatures) was consistently higher than present, as it was also during the Roman and Medieval periods.”

Kullman also wrote that “summer temperatures during the early Holocene thermal optimum may have been 2.3°C higher than present.” The “Holocene thermal optimum was a warm period that occurred between 9,000 and 5,000 years ago. This warm period was followed by a gradual cooling period.”

According to Kullman, the temperature spikes were during the Roman and Medieval warming periods “were succeeded by a distinct tree line/temperature dip, broadly corresponding to the Little Ice Age.”

The importance of this report is that it indicates the Earth was warmer in pre-industrial times, meaning that mother nature rather than man may be driving climate change.

This latest study is part of the mounting evidence that global warming may not be the problem that Al Gore and others claim it is. Most of the “gloom and doom” predictions made by the global warming theorists  have not come true. Even the climate change histrionics one sees in the media after every major storm or fire are wrong, as the frequency of hurricanes, tornados, and wildfires are all way down.

Other facts arguing against the climate change theory include, in its latest report the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the U.N.’s global warming organization, acknowledge that the Earth’s temperatures haven’t gotten warmer in over 15 years. Additionally, both polar ice caps are growing at near record rates. In fact some peer-reviewed studies are predicting the earth is about to experience a mini ice age.

One does not have to believe that there is an ice age coming, but there is enough scientific evidence disputing the climate change theory to throw it into doubt. Anybody saying climate change is settled science is either lying, trying to redistribute income internationally, or has a financial interest in closing off the debate.

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which indicates that greenhouse gases may not be the driving force behind the modern global warming trend.

What global warming trend?

Ronnie on December 13, 2013 at 2:47 PM

In fact some peer-reviewed studies are predicting the earth is about to experience a mini ice age.

Yeah. That’s been going on down here in Texas for the last couple of weeks.

trigon on December 13, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Remember, it’s not about the climate, but about crushing progress.

Steve Eggleston on December 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM

That’s because the earth was flat back then….

Get over it haters….

BigWyo on December 13, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Remember, it’s not about the climate, but about crushing progress.

Steve Eggleston on December 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM

…or living off government grants after inventing an entire industry out of whole cloth.

BigWyo on December 13, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Anybody saying climate change is settled science is either lying, trying to redistribute income internationally, or has a financial interest in closing off the debate.

Who said those reasons were mutually exclusive? In fact, Algore Goracle is proof that all three are likely drivers behind the Gorebal Warmering crowd.

Steve Eggleston on December 13, 2013 at 2:53 PM

Toga! Toga!

Othniel on December 13, 2013 at 2:53 PM

Remember, it’s not about the climate, but about crushing progress.

Steve Eggleston on December 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM

.
It’s about disabling and dismantling the U.S.

listens2glenn on December 13, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Junk science.

Does. Not. Fit. Narrative.

-Gang Green

antipc on December 13, 2013 at 2:56 PM

The Deep Ecology Platform

1. The well-being and flourishing of human and nonhuman life on Earth have value in themselves (synonyms: inherent worth, intrinsic value, inherent value). These values are independent of the usefulness of the nonhuman world for human purposes.

2. Richness and diversity of life forms contribute to the realization of these values and are also values in themselves.

3. Humans have no right to reduce this richness and diversity except to satisfy vital needs.

4. Present human interference with the nonhuman world is excessive, and the situation is rapidly worsening.

5. The flourishing of human life and cultures is compatible with a substantial decrease of the human population. The flourishing of nonhuman life requires such a decrease.

6. Policies must therefore be changed. The changes in policies affect basic economic, technological, and ideological structures. The resulting state of affairs will be deeply different from the present.

7. The ideological change is mainly that of appreciating life quality (dwelling in situations of inherent worth) rather than adhering to an increasingly higher standard of living. There will be a profound awareness of the difference between big and great.

8. Those who subscribe to the foregoing points have an obligation directly or indirectly to participate in the attempt to implement the necessary changes.

“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
- Ted Turner, CNN founder and UN supporter

http://www.green-agenda.com/deepecology.html

Think you or any members of your family would be included in that 300 million?

Murphy9 on December 13, 2013 at 2:56 PM

omg friday the 13th warmians

Axe on December 13, 2013 at 2:57 PM

In fact some peer-reviewed studies are predicting the earth is about to experience a mini ice age.
=========================

Thats what were in,..an early ice age!!

Amman, Amman, JO
52m
Photo: Snow snarls traffic in Amman, Jordan – @MohammadAsfour
see original on twitter.com

https://twitter.com/MohammadAsfour/status/411552592523558912/photo/1/large
=========================================================================

Israel
8h
Photo: Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu looks out on snow in Jerusalem with Secretary of State John Kerry – @usembassyta
see original on twitter.com

https://twitter.com/usembassyta/status/411420748540964865/photo/1/large

canopfor on December 13, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Why is Greenland called Greenland? Because those crazy Vikings were thinking of marketing that now desolate place to the monarchs of Europe? Maybe just maybe, it was much greener then today when they discovered it.

celtic warrior on December 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM

No wonder they wore togas.

Wore? What do y…

Hey, dont you guys wea…

…nevermind.

Valkyriepundit on December 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Remember, it’s not about the climate, but about crushing progress.

Steve Eggleston on December 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM

This says it all.

celtic warrior on December 13, 2013 at 3:01 PM

All the AGW types have been trying to make the MWP and prior warm periods go away. Yet no amount of fudge they pull from their butts can do that.

Meanwhile temps have been going down for 15 years…

ajacksonian on December 13, 2013 at 3:01 PM

But Greenpeace just told me Santa Claus is dying and that little orphan children won’t get any cookies this Christmas?

I also have it on good authority that Romans used to run over polar bears in their chariots.

mudskipper on December 13, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Big deal, we still need to revert to a lifestyle which involves living in peat huts and scrabbling under fallen logs for grubs and weevils to eat.

They wore togas for easy access.

Bishop on December 13, 2013 at 3:03 PM

This has been known forever. Sheesh.

Akzed on December 13, 2013 at 3:04 PM

The Deep Ecology Platform

1. The well-being and flourishing of human and nonhuman life on Earth have value in themselves (synonyms: inherent worth, intrinsic value, inherent value). These values are independent of the usefulness of the nonhuman world for human purposes.

2. Richness and diversity of life forms contribute to the realization of these values and are also values in themselves.

3. Humans have no right to reduce this richness and diversity except to satisfy vital needs.

4. Present human interference with the nonhuman world is excessive, and the situation is rapidly worsening.

5. The flourishing of human life and cultures is compatible with a substantial decrease of the human population. The flourishing of nonhuman life requires such a decrease.

6. Policies must therefore be changed. The changes in policies affect basic economic, technological, and ideological structures. The resulting state of affairs will be deeply different from the present.

7. The ideological change is mainly that of appreciating life quality (dwelling in situations of inherent worth) rather than adhering to an increasingly higher standard of living. There will be a profound awareness of the difference between big and great.

8. Those who subscribe to the foregoing points have an obligation directly or indirectly to participate in the attempt to implement the necessary changes.

Geez. That sounds like a desperate high school student trying to pad an essay.

“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
– Ted Turner, CNN founder and UN supporter

http://www.green-agenda.com/deepecology.html

Think you or any members of your family would be included in that 300 million?

Murphy9 on December 13, 2013 at 2:56 PM

No bet. Is Ted living in a hut with a sundial telling him the time and eating what he kills?

kim roy on December 13, 2013 at 3:04 PM

As a geologist, this is nothing new to me.
I read rocks all of the time.
In fact, I am presently sitting in my 10th grade biology class watching a lecture via the Howard Hughes Medical Institute concerning the Burgess shale and other fossil bearing formations.
Palm trees in Wyoming.
These trumpetings of such info like it’s something new and fantastic is absurd.
It should be common knowledge.

Badger40 on December 13, 2013 at 3:06 PM

That is why they changed the goal post to “climate change” and not “global warming.’ Nobody can argue that the climate changes.

melle1228 on December 13, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Natural warming deniers will ignore this research. Anything that dispels their view is not to be accepted.

sadatoni on December 13, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Does this mean that the SUV was invented in Italy in the year 200 BC?

Wino on December 13, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Yes, let’s ignore the other dozen studies published in the last month that support the theory of global warming in favor of tossing the theory because one study shows that it may have been warm in northern Europe 2000 years ago.

If you read the paper closely (I had to go through several links to get it, and it is increasingly garbled on the way up), you’ll find that the study actually supports global warming theory by showing that orbital changes can explain much of climate variation from the last two millennia … except for the recent upturn.

(You also repeat since debunked claims that we are entering an ice age or sea ice is recovering at a record pace. So I expect to see this piece of garbage dragged out for the next ten years.)

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Amongst the science community I was something of an outcast for my analysis that the case for catastrophic anthropogenic global warming was overblown. Vindication is sweet. I said back then that I would rather be right than popular. I stand by that to this day.

alchemist19 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Hal, calm down. I don’t think anyone is denying that the climate is changing – and most of us have no idea whether it will be warmer or cooler in 200 years. The point of disagreement is that the “true believers” claim it is anthropogenic, aka “man-made.”

Wino on December 13, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Upset they didn’t have SUVs in the Roman age?! Awwww, too bad.

The Nerve on December 13, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Think you or any members of your family would be included in that 300 million?

Murphy9 on December 13, 2013 at 2:56 PM

“Soylant Green is people.”

Start with dog on the dinner menu and this is how it always ends up…

Bruno Strozek on December 13, 2013 at 3:12 PM

About CO2. There is no actual evidence that CO2 does… anything!

Well, beyond being plant food. What the warmists have is a theoretical model on CO2, but zero empirical evidence supporting their model. The plight of the doomsayers is summarized by The Economist: “The mismatch between rising greenhouse gas emissions and not-rising temperatures [15 year 'pause'] is among the biggest puzzles in climate science just now.” And now, as time has unfolded, ALL the climate models have failed… miserably. CO2 has not been doing of late what it was supposed to do.

But it’s not just the last 15 years, it’s … throughout history.

Going back hundreds of thousands of years we can see in ice core samples that temperatures rise or fall, and then CO2 follows. Changes in CO2 result as an effect of temperature change. Yet there is no evidence at all that CO2 is also a cause of temperature change. What the Chicken Littles want us to believe is that CO2 could be both a cause and an effect of temperature change. Sure, that’s possible (if improbable), but the fact is that there’s no evidence for that. None.

And if we go back even further, hundreds of millions of years, we again see no evidence that CO2 affected temperatures. From Larry Bell: “Fossil records reveal that atmospheric CO2 levels around 600 million years ago were about 7,000 parts per million [vs ~ 400 ppm today]. Then approximately 480 million years ago those levels gradually dropped to 4,000 ppm over about 100 million years, while average temperatures remained at a steady 72 degrees. They then jumped rapidly to 4,500 ppm and guess what! Temperatures dove to an estimated average similar to today, even though the CO2 level was around twelve times higher than now. Yes, as CO2 went up, temperatures plummeted.” Even ice ages occured at these high CO2 levels!

And looking at recent history, it’s the same thing, no evidence on CO2! Since 1850 or so we have been recovering from the Little Ice Age with mild warming (we have had only 0.7°C of warming). Now look at this woodfortrees graph. What we see is a near identical rate of temperature change during the first (low CO2) and second half (high CO2) of the 20th century. Nearly identical. Where is the signal for CO2? CO2 appears to be doing nothing, zilch. C3 presents more on this here.

If we look at the evidence, or the lack therof, for CO2 affecting temperatures, maybe it’s time we start to take a more serious look at this alternative theoretical model on CO2 that maintains that CO2 does not markedly affect climate temperatures beyond ~ 200 ppm, or that the feedback from water vapor is negative, thus negating any warming.

anotherJoe on December 13, 2013 at 3:12 PM

Anybody saying climate change is settled science is either lying, trying to redistribute income internationally, or has a financial interest in closing off the debate.

Or they’re just plain short bus stupid.

NotCoach on December 13, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Jeff,
Welcome to the party.

One thing that gives me fits being a product of the 60′s and 80′s education system is the dumbing down of our schools. I do not mean to pick a bone with your article, and I am far from an English major, but the phrase,”haven’t gotten warmer in over 15 years.” would have never made it in my 7th grade English class with that little white-haired grandmother we had as a teacher.

The frustrating part of it is I see this type of grammar in almost every version of journalism today, whether the Net, in print, or even the comments made by television and cable news organizations, so you are being taught it as a matter of principle.

Well, enough of my rant.

Thanks for posting this article. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and the more we can shine on the lying, data manipulation, and politicizing of this subject the better. In the end, if one does what is usually warranted and follows the money, we can easily see that this Global Warming Crisis is nothing but another way for certain people, companies, and organizations to make money, AL Gore being a prime example.

Again, welcome to the party.

Tenwheeler on December 13, 2013 at 3:14 PM

I argued the MWP/LIA facts with a warmist who told me that was limited to the north Atlantic area. The rest of the world was much cooler. I didn’t respond as I could tell he was floating in an ocean of KoolAid.

Kafir on December 13, 2013 at 3:15 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Curious that your theory always has a 10 year window before the doom of civilization, and the window keeps getting pushed out year after year. Curious too that “global warming” got changed to “climate change” when the warming didn’t follow your carefully designed templates.

People in Nebraska were supposed to be dog-paddling in salt water by now, what happened?

Bishop on December 13, 2013 at 3:15 PM

Over 2000 cold and snow records set in the USA this past week

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/13/over-2000-cold-and-snow-records-set-in-the-usa-this-past-week/

HAL :(

Murphy9 on December 13, 2013 at 3:16 PM

In 2001, the IPCC predicted milder winters and less snow. Experts are hoping no one remembers
http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_tar/?src=/climate/ipcc_tar/wg2/569.htm … pic.twitter.com/tphOqIBTwV

https://twitter.com/SteveSGoddard/status/411543526648709120

:(:(:(

Murphy9 on December 13, 2013 at 3:16 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Example number one of short bus stupid.

Yes, let’s ignore the other dozen studies published in the last month that support the theory of global warming in favor of tossing the theory because one study shows that it may have been warm in northern Europe 2000 years ago.

What studies were those?

If you read the paper closely (I had to go through several links to get it, and it is increasingly garbled on the way up), you’ll find that the study actually supports global warming theory by showing that orbital changes can explain much of climate variation from the last two millennia … except for the recent upturn.

That upturn in the last 15 years? Is that the upturn you’re referring to?

(You also repeat since debunked claims that we are entering an ice age or sea ice is recovering at a record pace. So I expect to see this piece of garbage dragged out for the next ten years.)

Debunked by whom?

While we expect short bus stupid to post around here, please at least support your claims. I know there are “studies” that claim what you claim, but talking out your a$$ without support impresses no one. So post the studies so we can dissect and destroy them. Better yet visit a site that doesn’t have short bus stupid.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/

NotCoach on December 13, 2013 at 3:18 PM

The Deep Ecology Platform

Is anti-human.
They would like to see all humans gone because they feel that humans are some sort of mistake or an invading species that does not belong on their ideal Earth. In one way they are right. The human population has to be reduced for the good of the species. All people that think like them and are anti-human must be removed for the good of the rest.

Why do we put up with these people? Why are they allowed to even speak? They do not have the best interest of the human race in mind. The first world nations must have an abundance of these self-loathing anti-humans for them to have become so powerful. The simple outlawing of such anti-human movements would solve a lot of the worlds problems with energy, food production and development yet we allow these anti-humans to dominate us. I’m not sure who is more perverse. The ones that want to end the human race or the ones that allow themselves to be removed so easily.

Dr. Frank Enstine on December 13, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Hey, as I recall. According to Algore – Mumbai was supposed to be underwater by now…

Mmmm… ?

Sharr on December 13, 2013 at 3:19 PM

I argued the MWP/LIA facts with a warmist who told me that was limited to the north Atlantic area. The rest of the world was much cooler. I didn’t respond as I could tell he was floating in an ocean of KoolAid.

Kafir on December 13, 2013 at 3:15 PM

Well, you know, Michael Mann has this single, magical tree that proves all warmists right. It’s hard to argue with that.

NotCoach on December 13, 2013 at 3:20 PM

FOR THE PENGUINS!

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/pity-the-penguins/

Emperor Penguins have to march an extra 35 km, due to Antarctic sea ice expansion.

Antarctic sea ice extent reached 19.47 million square kilometers (7.52 million square miles) on September 22, a record high maximum extent relative to the satellite record, and slightly above the previous record high set last year. This year’s maximum extent was 3.6% higher than the 1981 to 2010 average Antarctic maximum, representing an ice edge that is 35 kilometers (approximately 22 miles) further north on average. Overall, Antarctic September sea ice extent is increasing at 1.1% per decade relative to the 1981 to 2010 average.

:(:(:(

Murphy9 on December 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Calm down, all is well!

22044 on December 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

/drops gauntlet

If you think we’re headed to disaster and that the median IPCC estimates are reasonable and you’re prepared to back that argument up then say so. The fact is the IPCC estimates are way overblown and we’re talking at most one or two degrees warming over the next few centuries if the current trend continues.

Contest that at your peril. If you do decide to call me out on be warned that my claws are long, my claws are sharp and I am VERY tenacious.

I await your response.

alchemist19 on December 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Snow in Cairo…for the first time in 100 years…???

Climate Change!!!!!!

FORWARD!!!

BigWyo on December 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM

It is a long way from being news. It’s just been hidden and suppressed by ecotard science for thew last 40 years.

BL@KBIRD on December 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

If you read the paper closely (I had to go through several links to get it, and it is increasingly garbled on the way up), you’ll find that the study actually supports global warming theory by showing that orbital changes can explain much of climate variation from the last two millennia … except for the recent upturn.

Because this time we have calibrated thermometers and aren’t relying on tree ring width to document actual air temperatures, and aren’t forced to use tree growth in South America as proof of temperatures in British Columbia.

So is it Man, man’s thermometers, or Hockey Stick Mann that is responsible for climate change?

BobMbx on December 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Julius Caesar also wrote about vineyards in what is now England, which is now too cold and wet for vineyards.

And what about those “shepherds watching their flocks by night” in December when Jesus was born? Some scientists try to doubt the Gospel, or insist that Jesus was born in autumn, because in today’s climate it would be too cold to let sheep graze outdoors at night in December. But maybe the climate was warmer in Bethlehem in Jesus’ time (during the Roman empire) than it is now…

Both during the Roman empire, and in Medieval times (roughly the 11th through 13th centuries), the climate was warmer than today’s climate, without major man-made CO2 emissions. Both “warm periods” were followed by a cooling climate due to entirely natural causes.

Al Gore, in his “Inconvenient Truth” movie, warns about what could happen to Florida if sea levels rose 20 feet, or about 6 meters. But sea levels are currently rising at less than 2 millimeters per year, meaning that it would take over 3,000 years at current rates for the sea level to rise 6 meters.

But history tells us that we had two natural periods of cooling climate in the past 2,000 years. Why should we not have at least one cooling period in the next 3,000 years?

Steve Z on December 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Question for the Globul Warming zealots:

Was there any Climate Change before the Industrial Age?

Galt2009 on December 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Does not matter. The warm-mongers will never let the facts get in the way of their narrative. This is why you do not discuss/debate/argue with the ill-informed or dogmatic.
We need to beat them in elections and the arena of ideas.

dentalque on December 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

“In ten years all important animal life in the sea will be extinct. Large areas of coastline will have to be evacuated because of the stench of dead fish.” Paul R. Ehrlich, speech during Earth Day, 1970.

Claim: “[By] 1995, the greenhouse effect would be desolating the heartlands of North America and Eurasia with horrific drought, causing crop failures and food riots … [By 1996] The Platte River of Nebraska would be dry, while a continent-wide black blizzard of prairie topsoil will stop traffic on interstates, strip paint from houses and shut down computers.” Michel Oppenheimer and Robert H. Boyle, Dead Heat, St. Martin’s Press, 1990. Oppenheimer is the Albert G. Milbank Professor of Geosciences and International Affairs in the Woodrow Wilson School and the Department of Geosciences at Princeton University. He is the Director of the Program in Science, Technology, and Environmental Policy at the Wilson School. He was formerly a senior scientist with the Environmental Defense Fund, the largest non-governmental organization in the U.S. that examines problems and solutions to greenhouse gases.

“London’s last substantial snowfall was in February 1991.” “Global warming, the heating of the atmosphere by increased amounts of industrial gases, is now accepted as a reality by the international community.”
According to Dr. David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, within a few years “children just aren’t going to know what snow is” and winter snowfall will be “a very rare and exciting event.” Interviewed by the UK Independent, March 20, 2000.
“David Parker, at the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research in Berkshire, says ultimately, British children could have only virtual experience of snow.”

Claim April 1970: “If present trends continue, the world will be … eleven degrees colder by the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age.” Kenneth E.F. Watt, in Earth Day, 1970.

Claim 1972: “Artic specialist Bernt Balchen says a general warming trend over the North Pole is melting the polar ice cap and may produce an ice-free Arctic Ocean by the year 2000.” Christian Science Monitor, June 8, 1972.

But Global Warming is settled science, and the Earth was destroyed in cosmic collision on Dec 21, 2012, but we are just denial and to foolish to realize it.

Wallythedog on December 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Hmmm…HAL??? Lotta inquiring minds here….

I posted this on the MMFA thread but I think it might fit in here nicely..

Kinda reminds me of a funny thing I read the other day…

‘Arguing with a Liberal is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, $hit all over the board and strut around like it’s victorious’.

BigWyo on December 13, 2013 at 2:57 PM

BigWyo on December 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

As a geologist, this is nothing new to me.
I read rocks all of the time.
In fact, I am presently sitting in my 10th grade biology class watching a lecture via the Howard Hughes Medical Institute concerning the Burgess shale and other fossil bearing formations.
Palm trees in Wyoming.
These trumpetings of such info like it’s something new and fantastic is absurd.
It should be common knowledge.

Badger40 on December 13, 2013 at 3:06 PM

As a historian, it’s not new to me either. The Holocene Optimal produced human civilization because people were able to become agriculturalists and settle in one place rather than range over a huge territory hunting and gathering. The new farmers were able to support warriors to defend their grain and domestic animals from outside attackers. The farmers also produced enough food to support a parasitic class of priests and artists.

catsandbooks on December 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Yes, let’s ignore the other dozen studies published in the last month that support the theory of global warming in favor of tossing the theory because one study shows that it may have been warm in northern Europe 2000 years ago.
 
Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

 
Science has an interesting approach to that problem.

rogerb on December 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

James Burke wrote about the Little Ice Age and the preceding Medieval Warm Period in his first book, Connections, in 1978. He described it as the cause of the radical change in architecture in Europe during that time, from open-plan single-room structures like Viking longhouses with a single central fire exhausting through a hole in the roof peak, to ones we would recognize today as modern-plan subdivided room houses with multiple fireplaces and flues. The latter can be heated effectively in conditions of extreme cold; the former cannot.

Similarly, you can contrast the typical “field kit” of a Roman legionary of Marius’ time (157-86 BC) to that of Byzantine soldiers of Justinian’s (482-565 AD). The former wore relatively light clothing under their lorica segmentata armor; the latter wore heavier clothing, copied from the Goths and Huns, under lamellar armor. The change wasn’t just from a change in tactics (the Byzantines put more emphasis on cavalry than infantry), but also due to changes in climate (i.e., Europe was already getting colder).

The Little Ice Age lasted longer than you might think, too. The Thames froze over in winter well into the early 19th century (during the major surge period of the “Industrial Revolution”, and in spite of human release of “greenhouse gases” all over Europe). And during the American Civil War, Union troops in Northern Virginia were surprised at the mildness of the winter of 1862-63; a decade earlier, the area routinely experienced hard freezes and blizzard-like conditions beginning in September and lasting into early April.

The cold was worldwide, but definitely lasted longer in North America. The “returns” may have been significantly skewed by the eruption of Mt. Tambora in 1815, which resulted in 1816 being referred to worldwide as the Year Without A Summer.

Oh, BTW; the Sun is showing sunspot activity far below expected levels this year. Much as Chinese records show it doing during… the Little Ice Age.

And no, you won’t read about it in Scientific American, let alone the New York Times.

They don’t like it when reality, and history, conflict with their “narrative”.

clear ether

eon

eon on December 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Akzed on December 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

And the Romans had all those gas guzzling SUV chariots.

rbj on December 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

It doesn’t matter whether it is cooling or warming to the top ecotards as long as it can be called man made. If it is man made then wise academics and community organizers can redistribute everything in a fair manner whatever the weather, right?

BL@KBIRD on December 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

It’s time to put theses idiot global warming-climate change people out of business for good. Tell algore to spend the winter in Yakuts up in Siberia and I think he’ll change his mind.

jaywemm on December 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

Kinda reminds me of a funny thing I read the other day…

‘Arguing with a Liberal is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, $hit all over the board and strut around like it’s victorious’.

BigWyo on December 13, 2013 at 2:57 PM

Lol, ain’t that the truth.

NotCoach on December 13, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

So, what ended the last Ice Age? And the one before that?

Akzed on December 13, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Snow in Cairo, first time in 112 years.

Proof of global warming

Akzed on December 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

If what you say is true, how can you possibly justify burning the fuel required to post your drivel? Are you a liar or a hypocrite?

Ronnie on December 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM

In fact some peer-reviewed studies are predicting the earth is about to experience a mini ice age.

Yeah. That’s been going on down here in Texas for the last couple of weeks.

trigon on December 13, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Ditto in Salt Lake City, where the temperature has averaged in the teens since December 2, and never gone above freezing.

Steve Z on December 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

So, what ended the last Ice Age? And the one before that?

Akzed on December 13, 2013 at 3:33 PM

It was those darn Neanderthals driving around in their Chevy suburbans!

Galt2009 on December 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Well then they will just change it from the globe is warming to the world is turning and still demand wealth redistribution as its only solution.

John the Libertarian on December 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

Does this mean that the SUV was invented in Italy in the year 200 BC?

Wino on December 13, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Ceasar cruised a Hummer and Cleopatra tooled around in an Escalade.

Rio Linda Refugee on December 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

Well then they will just change it from the globe is warming to the world is turning and still demand wealth redistribution as its only solution.

John the Libertarian on December 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

AGT

Axe on December 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM

I live in Minnesota and it’s 9F where I’m at right now and a few days ago the high was -10F.

Well ok it’s supposed to be like this but still….yeah.

Bishop on December 13, 2013 at 3:43 PM

So far no data contradicts the null hypothesis: this inter-glacial period is little different from prior ones.

We can even document minor asteroid impacts and their effects on snowfall during prior inter-glacial periods, as well as track longer warming trends than we have had. Right now we seem to be right in the mid-range of temps for this part of the cycle and just past a peak in temps… unfortunately if it is following prior cycles, it is all downhill from here.

ajacksonian on December 13, 2013 at 3:47 PM

Well then they will just change it from the globe is warming to the world is turning and still demand wealth redistribution as its only solution.

John the Libertarian on December 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

*snicker*

BigWyo on December 13, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Yes, let’s ignore the other dozen studies published in the last month that support the theory of global warming in favor of tossing the theory because one study shows that it may have been warm in northern Europe 2000 years ago.

If you read the paper closely (I had to go through several links to get it, and it is increasingly garbled on the way up), you’ll find that the study actually supports global warming theory by showing that orbital changes can explain much of climate variation from the last two millennia … except for the recent upturn.

(You also repeat since debunked claims that we are entering an ice age or sea ice is recovering at a record pace. So I expect to see this piece of garbage dragged out for the next ten years.)

Hal_10000 on December 13, 2013 at 3:08 PM

AGW is not a theory. It’s a pi$$ poor hypothesis based upon false assumptions and falsified data sets.
One of the main assumptions of this hypothesis you claim is a theory, which it is not (see the real definition of what a theory is), is that CO2 causes atmospheric temps to rise. It actually does NOT do that at all. It’s concentration in the atmosphere actually rises in RESPONSE TO rising atmospheric temps.
The human contribution to CO2 in the atmosphere has not even been successfully measured. No one really knows how much CO2 humans contribute to the atmosphere.
In reality, the driver of climate happens to be the Sun.
Climate is not really all that predictable considering the sheer volume of variables both known and unknown that affect it.
It is not even known just exactly how ENSO totally affects Earth’s climate.
So regarding human induced global climate change, it’s a bunch of garbage.
Humans DO influence and create microclimates, i.e. Urban Heat Island Effect. The dust bowl was one instance of an ecological disaster on a grand scale, but globally, not even close to something like a volcanic eruption or degassing of the oceans.
In conclusion, you cannot make any definitive conclusions about AGW when you make the assumptions that CO2 causes warming. Bcs it does not.

Badger40 on December 13, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Remember, it’s not about the climate, but about crushing progress.

Steve Eggleston on December 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM

Exactly. The green-weenies are Luddites who have 2 goals; impede progress in the name of preserving Mother Gaia, and bilking the developed countries of their wealth and pass it around to 3rd world kleptocracies who are big players in all those much ballyhooed UN climate change conferences.

simkeith on December 13, 2013 at 3:49 PM

That is why they changed the goal post to “climate change” and not “global warming.’ Nobody can argue that the climate changes.

melle1228 on December 13, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Steven Goddard did a post yesterday on the warmist Surreze saying that there is no evidence that 2013 marks the beginning of a continuing recovery of Arctic ice levels. My comment:

Well, isn’t it fairly well established now that the Arctic ice has varied with the Atlantic Multidecadal & the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (AMO PDO) cycles. Like, Arctic ice was just reaching a new maximum around 1979 after the cycle switched, and now the cycle has switched again so we should see the Arctic ice gain from here on. So, cry Chicken Little cry.

Now the Arctic and Antarctic are gaining ice mass. But in theory soon the Antarctic sea ice extent will start to decline (talk to Joe Bastardi about this), and the Arctic will gain real massive ice extents, and the befuddled fear mongering ecogeeks will scratch their heads and… and then, and then: “LOOK!!! Look at Antarctica, losing sea ice, like our models say. Forget about the measly Arctic.. Antarctica is much more important and its being melted away by CO2!” Um, minor problems, people aren’t going to be so stupid then, and the temperatures world wide are going to be going down down down. Oh, “LOOK, it’s climate change, it’s NOT global warming, never was. Look at Antarctica, not the Arctic, not your freezing back yard. Buy a Prius!”

anotherJoe on December 13, 2013 at 3:50 PM

Remember, it’s not about the climate, but about crushing progress.

Steve Eggleston on December 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM

And getting government to legislate taking your money from you and giving it to the wealthy (Gore, Soros) because they don’t have enough already.

TulsAmerican on December 13, 2013 at 3:52 PM

Hey Hal, what if I told you Karl Marx didn’t believe in Global Warming,would you be cool with that?

celtic warrior on December 13, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Hal, don’t worry. Warming, cooling, droughts, flooding, range fires, more hurricanes, fewer hurricanes, whatever. They are all the same as far as the AGW crowd is concerned and miraculously they are all solved by the exact same actions: A bigger, more expensive and more expansive federal government, more regulations of people’s lives and property, more grant money and more international conventions in Tahiti. What’s not to like?

Fred 2 on December 13, 2013 at 4:02 PM

About CO2. There is no actual evidence that CO2 does… anything!

anotherJoe on December 13, 2013 at 3:12 PM

I beg to differ sir! I have definitive proof that it can be used to extinguish fires. It is also routinely used to purge hydrogen out of large electric generators. It can also be used in certain situations to kill terrorists. I won’t tell you how I know that last one, you’ll just have to take my word for it.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Ceasar cruised a Hummer and Cleopatra tooled around in an Escalade.

Rio Linda Refugee on December 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

Ceaser, Cleopatra and a Hummer? I think we could make something out of that.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2013 at 4:17 PM

Anybody saying climate change is settled science is either lying, trying to redistribute income internationally, or has a financial interest in closing off the debate.

Add to this a 4th group of people. Those sucked into the belief system so long ago its become complete dogma. They have preached to their freinds about the evils of man-made climage change for most of their lives. They are truly vested in it, though would be hurt just as bad if draconian measures were put in place to stop it. They are truly “Useful Idiots”.

jmartin61 on December 13, 2013 at 4:18 PM

omg friday the 13th warmians

Axe on December 13, 2013 at 2:57 PM

Axe:Oh crap, for some inexplicable reason I was oblivious to the date,
er, Friday 13TH:0

canopfor on December 13, 2013 at 4:20 PM

It seems to me that the only people still pushing this hoax are the ones with a monetary stake in it and the complete imbeciles that bought into it in the first place.

BigWyo on December 13, 2013 at 4:25 PM

Ceaser, Cleopatra and a Hummer? I think we could make something out of that.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2013 at 4:17 PM

I’m sure someone beat you to it a long time ago.

NotCoach on December 13, 2013 at 4:25 PM

It’s unfortunate that climate science has gotten mixed up in politics and crony capitalism, because there is real science there when you strip out all of the garbage.

Let’s start with the myth that the hockey stick data was cooked. It wasn’t. The original study has been verified and since backed up by further studies using different lines of evidence.

Before you come at me as some green lib (I’m not), take a deep breath and check this out http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=30 for a start.

UrbanCoyote on December 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Don’t forget Guam is going to tip over.Thanks for the alert Hank Johnson.

celtic warrior on December 13, 2013 at 4:27 PM

I’m sure someone beat you to it a long time ago.

NotCoach on December 13, 2013 at 4:25 PM

Yeah, I know. Nothing new under the sun. There’s probably video that can be downloaded.

Oldnuke on December 13, 2013 at 4:28 PM

UrbanCoyote on December 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Linking a leftist site is a great start.

Murphy9 on December 13, 2013 at 4:29 PM

“Hide the decline…”

Sharr on December 13, 2013 at 4:36 PM

UrbanCoyote on December 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM

OK. So? That doesn’t separate natural warming from anthropogenic warming, nor does it make any predictions about the future. The relationship between carbon dioxide concentration and radiation absorbance is logarithmic after all so the effect levels off quickly, especially if you look at warming from the black body temperature of the Earth and compare it with the last 50 years or so of measured CO2 concentrations.

You got anything else?

alchemist19 on December 13, 2013 at 4:37 PM

UrbanCoyote on December 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Yeah, and the Houston Texan cheerleaders told me that they’re going to the Superbowl. All the talk of “win-loss records” has been debunked.

Wino on December 13, 2013 at 4:38 PM

It’s unfortunate that climate science has gotten mixed up in politics and crony capitalism…
 
UrbanCoyote on December 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM

 
Well said.

rogerb on December 13, 2013 at 4:39 PM

It’s unfortunate that climate science has gotten mixed up in politics and crony capitalism, because there is real science there when you strip out all of the garbage.

Let’s start with the myth that the hockey stick data was cooked. It wasn’t. The original study has been verified and since backed up by further studies using different lines of evidence.

Before you come at me as some green lib (I’m not), take a deep breath and check this out http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=30 for a start.

UrbanCoyote on December 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM

I’ll take your link and raise you one. Next time you post some BS about “real science,” do everyone a favor and do some research.

Your assertion was debunked in 2011, champ.

http://junkscience.com/2011/11/22/climategate-2-0/

Turtle317 on December 13, 2013 at 4:42 PM

http://www.space.com/19280-solar-activity-earth-climate.html

And before you go full retard on me and cite various sources ad-nauseam from every prick who has some kind of doctorate from some liberal college, puzzle me this:

If I turn off the sun, how long would it take for life on Earth to end?

A> A few hours
B> A few days
C> A year or more.

The correct answer, of course, is that no one knows, because we have a bunch of self-described climate researchers who are entirely too wrapped-up with making the human race miserable over a seriously flawed theory over the less than 1% impact the human race makes to the Earth’s climate.

Now do us all a favor and chase some reindeer in Scandinavia with a device that measures flatulence.

Turtle317 on December 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM

Hey! I have a question too!

I was watching some Bill Nye v Marc Morano video a few weeks ago, & Bill Nye said that the MWP was just a European thing, and that the global temperature was not really higher than it is now.

Anyone have any info on that??

/seriously I think the commies lost the cold war and switched to environmentalism, I just don’t know how to address what Bill Nye said, and I don’t even know if its relevant.

blockchords on December 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM

Speaking of climategate, when the emails were released, I had quite a lot of time on my hands at my job (2 preps & a study hall=babysitting)at the time & I voraciously perused through them quite thoroughly.
It was all in there. Incredibly, many of the emails confirmed that several people were complicit in trying to doctor things to further their agenda.
Incredibly interesting is that various media entities & pro-AGW fanatics denied the content of the emails as being indicative of lying.
Denying what was in there to read. It’s as if these people believed that repeating lies often enough, or by simply stating the opposite of the truth, somehow made it true.
INcredible.

Badger40 on December 13, 2013 at 5:06 PM

(Millar, Constance, Robert Westfall, Diane Delany, John King and Harry Alden, Climate As An Ecosystem Architect; Responses Of High-Elevation Conifers To Past Climate Variability.)
- The stuff in parenthesis is so you can look it up {What happened to google scholar?}

Whitewing Mtn and San Joaquin Ridge

A volcanic eruption of the Glass Creek vent (Inyo Craters chain, eastern Sierra Nevada) during medieval times [best estimate AD1350] buried forests in the adjacent region under several meters of tephra. Large, mostly downed, dead trees on nearby Whitewing Mtn (3052m) and San Joaquin Ridge (3105m) appear to have been killed by the eruption and preserved in arid, cold environments; tentative radiocarbon analysis (Univ AZ, Lab of Tree Ring Research, 1980) gave dates in the eruption era. The presence of these stems suggests a tall forest existed at the time the trees were alive. Conditions at this time were warm with two 150-200 year dry periods between AD 900-1350 in the Sierra Nevada (Stine 1994). The dead stems contrast with current conditions of these habitats, which are treeless or have only occasional krummholz whitebark pine. Live forests of whitebark pine downslope suggest cycles of shifting treeline in more recent centuries, during the cool centuries known as the Little Ice Age. No previous studies have examined the paleoecological, climatic, or eruptive-sequence implications of the downed logs or downslope contemporary forests”⤮
· Medieval-age (AD 900-1350) forest composition, structure, and growth on summits were typical of forests currently 300-500 m lower, suggesting an effectively warmer climate during medieval times
· Relative to present, sugar pine has been regionally extirpated and species diversity declined from 7 to 1; crown form altered from upright, straight stems to stunted krummholz, growth rates declined significantly, conditions went from forest to mostly barren
· 500 years ago (AD 1500, Little Ice Age), whitebark pine grew 100m below its current optimum; this zone has been moving upslope since, and at present whitebark is colonizing barren slopes above 2900m.

Wassuk Range

We report here a substudy on watershed-scale response of limber pine in the Wassuk Range to climate variability over the last 3500 years. Limber pine now grows only in remnant groves on mostly north-facing slopes of Mt. Grant (3415m) and scattered locations on other peaks. Dead wood, however, is abundant in all major drainages and aspects of Mt. Grant where no live trees now exist, and at elevations extending above current treeline.

papertiger on December 13, 2013 at 5:08 PM

Turtle317 on December 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM

I once read somewhere, a long time ago, that the answer would actually be measured in seconds

WryTrvllr on December 13, 2013 at 5:20 PM

I was watching some Bill Nye v Marc Morano video a few weeks ago, & Bill Nye said that the MWP was just a European thing, and that the global temperature was not really higher than it is now.

Anyone have any info on that??

blockchords on December 13, 2013 at 5:01 PM

Ehh, I see this was discussed through the comments, but no one really weighed in on why we care so much about the MWP if it wasn’t a global situation.

I understand tons of other arguments about AGW being a hoax, but what is it about this that I have to wrap my head around?

blockchords on December 13, 2013 at 5:30 PM

Ugly Coyote’s blurb can be attributed to stupidity, or maybe he’s a windmill salesman.

Of course you could ask why would a windmill salesman be trying to sell windmills on Hot Air? The governor of California is your “natural market” for windmills.

Ok – just stupidity.

papertiger on December 13, 2013 at 5:35 PM

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