How many people “enrolled” in ObamaCare have paid their first month of premiums?

posted at 1:51 pm on December 5, 2013 by Allahpundit

Health-care reporters have been zeroed in lately on the 834 error rate, i.e. the rate of garbled or phantom enrollment data transmitted from Healthcare.gov to insurance companies as people sign up. WaPo claimed the other day that the rate is as high as one-third, but HHS, knowing a looming PR catastrophe when it sees one, has refused to give reporters a hard number. The media’s focus on that is all to the good — the higher the 834 error rate, the more chaos there’ll be next month in sorting out the big surge of applications in December — but there’s another key rate that’s being overlooked. Namely, what’s the rate of people who somehow, miraculously, have completed the sign-up process on Healthcare.gov but then failed to send a payment to their new insurer for their first month of premiums? I haven’t seen a single estimate of that yet even though it’s a crucial metric: If you don’t pay by New Year’s Eve, you’re not enrolled, even if you successfully signed up on the website. If there’s a huge nonpayment rate among new sign-ups, there’ll be a huge number of people who show up to see the doctor next month only to find, to their great confusion and annoyance, that they have no coverage because they haven’t paid yet.

That brings me to this new piece from CNN Money, from which I learned two important things. One: If you sign up but fail to pay by December 31st, it’s not a simple matter of your coverage being suspended until you pony up. Your enrollment is void and you have to re-enroll on the website in January. Imagine how well Healthcare.gov is likely to cope if, next month, there are suddenly hundreds of thousands of people flooding into the site trying to sign up again because they forgot to pay on time before. And two: At least one insurer out there is keeping tabs on its nonpayment rate and sharing that number with the media. And the results are … not good:

While the Obama administration has reported that more than 100,000 Americans picked plans in October, the first month of open enrollment, it’s not known how many of them have paid.

One insurer, Physicians Health Plan of Northern Indiana, has received payments from only about 20% of applicants, nearly all using the firm’s online portal, said Jim Brunnemer, the chief financial officer. It is sending invoices and email reminders to those who haven’t yet sealed the deal. If payment isn’t made by New Year’s Eve, PHP has been told by federal officials that it must void the application.

Another complication is that insurers also don’t have a lot of time to process applications and send out ID cards. The timeline, particularly over the holiday week, will prove “challenging” for some companies, one industry executive said.

Yesterday I guesstimated, based on the most recent enrollment numbers, that something like 1.5 million people will sign up by December 23rd. Not every insurer will have a payment rate as poor as the one in Indiana cited above, but even if you triple it and assume 60 percent are paying on time, that’s still 600,000 people — roughly the population of Washington D.C. — that went to the trouble of signing up and then, for various and unknown reasons, didn’t complete enrollment by tendering payment. Maybe that’s because they’re short on cash right now, maybe they meant to pay and simply forgot, or maybe they didn’t read the fine print and thought they wouldn’t be expected to pay until January. My guess is that most of them fall into the last group. Which means all hell’s going to break loose next month.

unless the White House comes up with another “workaround.” They’ve already proved that they’re willing to overpay insurers temporarily in the interest of kickstarting enrollment; why wouldn’t they also offer to cover the first month of premiums for new enrollees who forgot to pay so that the missing revenue is available to insurers? Enrollees could pay the feds back later, maybe by having the value of those premiums withheld from their tax refunds in April if need be. (That’s how the mandate penalty will be collected, after all.) Given how lawless O has been in suspending the employer mandate and un-canceling plans, and given his willingness to perform frantic triage on the law politically by extending deadlines regardless of the policy consequences, it’s hard to believe he’d allow the nonpayment problem to wreak havoc next month. That’s the last thing Democrats need once they’ve finally made it past December 23rd and caught their breath over the holidays. Obama’s going to do something to “solve” this problem too. With your money, of course.

Back to the 834 problem, though. To prepare for today’s daily media conference call with HHS, watch Bob Laszewski’s interview with Megyn Kelly from last night. The key bit is the end of the clip when Laszewski insists, contra the White House’s claims that they improved the back end of Healthcare.gov as part of the big site upgrade before the November 30th repair deadline, that the 834 error rate was just as high on Monday of this week as it’s been in the past. If he’s right and that doesn’t change soon, insurers will have an unholy mess on their hands next month in sorting out hundreds of thousands of indecipherable enrollments. But look on the bright side: Even a low rate of accurate data is better than zero — which is what it is right now for Medicaid enrollments transmitted from Healthcare.gov to the states. Stay tuned. Exit quotation: “The third aide, who works for a [Democratic] senator up for reelection in 2014, said the White House had ‘s–t the bed.’”



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Remarkable success story.

Just remarkable.

Bravo, Democrats.

Good Lt on December 5, 2013 at 1:57 PM

Why do you have to pay for free insurance?

Sincerely,
Libiot

hillsoftx on December 5, 2013 at 2:00 PM

As much as the WH is trying to change the subject i.e. minimum wage, immigration etc, the subject assuredly must come back this…which is a good thing.

Static21 on December 5, 2013 at 2:01 PM

I love one of Drudge’s headlines:

50,000 Sign up for Internet Gambling in NJ; 741 for Obamacare...

Bwahaha, translated: 50,741 have signed up for gambling.

hillsoftx on December 5, 2013 at 2:01 PM

This was never supposed to work.

Obamacare was written by a 1960′s SDS radical (Wade Rathke) at the Apollo Group using the Cloward–Piven theory to “overwhelm the system.”

The fact that people are still pretending to be “shocked” that this isn’t working to pathetic.

Obamacare was never intended to work. It was reported since 2009 that this was the intent.

tetriskid on December 5, 2013 at 2:02 PM

Yesterday I guesstimated, based on the most recent enrollment numbers, that something like 1.5 million people will sign up by December 23rd. Not every insurer will have a payment rate as poor as the one in Indiana cited above, but even if you triple it and assume 60 percent are paying on time, that’s still 600,000 people — roughly the population of Washington D.C. — that went to the trouble of signing up and then, for various and unknown reasons, didn’t complete enrollment by tendering payment. Maybe that’s because they’re short on cash right now, maybe they meant to pay and simply forgot, or maybe they didn’t read the fine print and thought they wouldn’t be expected to pay until January. My guess is that most of them fall into the last group. Which means all hell’s going to break loose next month.

And how many simply assumed that the insurance is free?

catsandbooks on December 5, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Government programs: good.
Private sector programs: bad.
That about sums it up in the liberal mind.

LeftCoastRight on December 5, 2013 at 2:03 PM

…unless the White House comes up with another “workaround.” They’ve already proved that they’re willing to overpay insurers temporarily in the interest of kickstarting enrollment; why wouldn’t they also offer to cover the first month of premiums for new enrollees who forgot to pay so that the missing revenue is available to insurers? Enrollees could pay the feds back later, maybe by having the value of those premiums withheld from their tax refunds in April if need be. (That’s how the mandate penalty will be collected, after all.)

There’s one not-so-tiny problem with that(aside from the blatant lawlessness of it). What happens if these enrollees have no tax refund due? Will the IRS be coming after them demanding repayment? Cuz reportedly they won’t be doing that(and quite possibly can’t by law) with regard to the fee for the mandate.

Doughboy on December 5, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Why do you have to pay for free insurance?

Sincerely,
Libiot

hillsoftx on December 5, 2013 at 2:00 PM

“Like I can stay on Mom and Dad’s insurance for a really long time… right?”

Sincerely.

Millennial Libiot

workingclass artist on December 5, 2013 at 2:04 PM

There’s one not-so-tiny problem with that(aside from the blatant lawlessness of it). What happens if these enrollees have no tax refund due? Will the IRS be coming after them demanding repayment? Cuz reportedly they won’t be doing that(and quite possibly can’t by law) with regard to the fee for the mandate.

Doughboy on December 5, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Yeah Rush covered that.

workingclass artist on December 5, 2013 at 2:06 PM

If there’s a huge nonpayment rate among new sign-ups, there’ll be a huge number of people who show up to see the doctor next month only to find, to their great confusion and annoyance, that they have no coverage because they haven’t paid yet.

You’re assuming all of the non-payments are unintentional. I think that is a false assumption. There is a wide gulf between visiting Healthcare.gov, and actually getting insurance. And in that gulf are many different paths to be taken. Many who have put plans in their shopping carts are purposefully not going to buy. I really don’t think that many will show up to a doctor’s office and be surprised by the fact they don’t have insurance.

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:06 PM

OT (sort of): Does anyone know if the Affordable Care Act covers car care products? Cause I need to detail my car.

kcewa on December 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

If you don’t pay by New Year’s Eve, you’re not enrolled, even if you successfully signed up on the website.

“Pay? Democrats said I had a right to health-care. They never said I had to pay for it.”
/LIVs

Bitter Clinger on December 5, 2013 at 2:09 PM

I must admit, months ago when many were suggesting O-care was going to be a complete cluster f.., it occurred to me, what if it works just fine?

I didn’t really think it would, but on the other hand, just wow, this thing is way more screwed up than I possibly imagined. From a 10 million dollar web site costing over a billion, that won’t work, isn’t data safe, has no method of pmt, to insurance cancellations out the ying yang. And compounded by increasing premiums and high deductibles.

An unmitigated disaster for the people. Many who had insurance will next year be with out coverage.

filetandrelease on December 5, 2013 at 2:09 PM

And how many simply assumed that the insurance is free?

catsandbooks on December 5, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Most of them…cause that’s what they were told.

workingclass artist on December 5, 2013 at 2:10 PM

…unless the White House comes up with another “workaround.”

Lawless. White House gone rogue.

petefrt on December 5, 2013 at 2:11 PM

OT (sort of): Does anyone know if the Affordable Care Act covers car care products? Cause I need to detail my car.

kcewa on December 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Only if you have a hotrodium level plan with a turtle wax supplemental.

Gatsu on December 5, 2013 at 2:13 PM

I must admit, months ago when many were suggesting O-care was going to be a complete cluster f.., it occurred to me, what if it works just fine?

I didn’t really think it would, but on the other hand, just wow, this thing is way more screwed up than I possibly imagined. From a 10 million dollar web site costing over a billion, that won’t work, isn’t data safe, has no method of pmt, to insurance cancellations out the ying yang. And compounded by increasing premiums and high deductibles.

An unmitigated disaster for the people. Many who had insurance will next year be with out coverage.

filetandrelease on December 5, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Because Management is such strong suit for this administration…

“Sean Hannity on FOX News reported Wednesday President Obama did not hold a private One-to-One meeting with HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius for three-and-a-half years leading up to the Obamacare launch. From July 2010 until November 2013 Obama did not hold any private meetings with Secretary Sebelius according to the official White House calendar.

Obama met with his other cabinet secretaries 277 times during the same time period…”

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/12/breaking-obama-did-not-hold-one-on-one-meeting-with-hhs-secretary-sebelius-for-over-3-years-video/

But wait there’s more…

“Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) told Bill Hemmer on America’s Newsroom today that an internet giant offered to build the Obamacare website for free.

This was confirmed during testimony today before a Congressional committee. Issa, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman, said the Obama White House turned down the offer.

Bill Hemmer: Was it proven today that an internet company offered to build the website for free but the government passed on it? Was that true? Did that happen?

Rep. Darrell Issa: It was stated under oath that it was true. No one argued that it wasn’t.

The Obama administration blew over a billion dollars so far to build the failed Obamacare website….”

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/americas-newsroom/index.html

workingclass artist on December 5, 2013 at 2:15 PM

OT (sort of): Does anyone know if the Affordable Care Act covers car care products? Cause I need to detail my car.

kcewa on December 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Only if you have a hotrodium level plan with a turtle wax supplemental.

Gatsu on December 5, 2013 at 2:13 PM

And the deductible is only $16,000.

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:15 PM

You’re assuming all of the non-payments are unintentional. I think that is a false assumption. There is a wide gulf between visiting Healthcare.gov, and actually getting insurance. And in that gulf are many different paths to be taken. Many who have put plans in their shopping carts are purposefully not going to buy. I really don’t think that many will show up to a doctor’s office and be surprised by the fact they don’t have insurance.

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:06 PM

They have to have an insurance card to present at a doctor’s office, and they won’t get cards until they pay, right? Or, they’ll have the cards, but when the front office people call to verify coverage, they’ll find out it hasn’t been paid for.

Ward Cleaver on December 5, 2013 at 2:15 PM

And how many simply assumed that the insurance is free?

catsandbooks on December 5, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Most of them…cause that’s what they were told.

workingclass artist on December 5, 2013 at 2:10 PM

The unintended consequence of being imprecise.

BobMbx on December 5, 2013 at 2:16 PM

I must admit, months ago when many were suggesting O-care was going to be a complete cluster f.., it occurred to me, what if it works just fine?

I didn’t really think it would, but on the other hand, just wow, this thing is way more screwed up than I possibly imagined. From a 10 million dollar web site costing over a billion, that won’t work, isn’t data safe, has no method of pmt, to insurance cancellations out the ying yang. And compounded by increasing premiums and high deductibles.

An unmitigated disaster for the people. Many who had insurance will next year be with out coverage.

filetandrelease on December 5, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Same here. I never thought it would work(and I suspected that was intentional), but I figured it would simply be more expensive, less accessible, and riddled with unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles and cronyism(like exempting unions and Congress).

But this is beyond even my lowest expectations. It takes a certain kind of talent(and I don’t mean that as a compliment) to take the best health care system in the world and 1/6 of the largest economy on the planet and wreak utter havoc in the span of just a few short months. And no, I also never expected that the feds couldn’t successfully launch a g-ddamn website. Twice.

Doughboy on December 5, 2013 at 2:16 PM

When does IRS verify income to determine whether people are actually eligible?

If it turns out an ineligible person lied or mistakenly misreported income (easy to do, especially for the self-employed, since the application is so confusing), what happens to their policy? Is it voided or are they given the chance to repay the subsidy?

Nobody knows.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:17 PM

They have to have an insurance card to present at a doctor’s office, and they won’t get cards until they pay, right? Or, they’ll have the cards, but when the front office people call to verify coverage, they’ll find out it hasn’t been paid for.

Ward Cleaver on December 5, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Who gives out insurance cards, before payment is received, on new policies?

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:18 PM

So we would pay their first month ‘s premium as well if Obama has his way?????

Cripe

cmsinaz on December 5, 2013 at 2:18 PM

When does IRS verify income to determine whether people are actually eligible?

sorry, s/b “eligible for a subsidy”

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:18 PM

So are we finding out what’s in it yet, Pelosi?

UnderstandingisPower on December 5, 2013 at 2:19 PM

I don’t know about medical, but auto insurers will.

Ward Cleaver on December 5, 2013 at 2:20 PM

And the lib posters on politico keep spouting folks don’t have to pay until jan

Idiots. Am I right Rovin?

cmsinaz on December 5, 2013 at 2:20 PM

Who gives out insurance cards, before payment is received, on new policies?

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:18 PM

I don’t know about medical, but auto insurers will.

Ward Cleaver on December 5, 2013 at 2:20 PM

When does IRS verify income to determine whether people are actually eligible?

If it turns out an ineligible person lied or mistakenly misreported income (easy to do, especially for the self-employed, since the application is so confusing), what happens to their policy? Is it voided or are they given the chance to repay the subsidy?

Nobody knows.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:17 PM

I’m pretty sure that “No Doc” loans were tapped as major culprits in the collapse of the banking and real estate markets a few short years ago.

Today, they either:

1) didn’t learn from it, or

2) took a lot of notes on how to destroy huge segments of an economy.

Smart money is on #2.

BobMbx on December 5, 2013 at 2:21 PM

Anger among Democrats over the rollout of ObamaCare is deep.

The third aide, who works for a senator up for reelection in 2014, said the White House had “s–t the bed.”

Now, the staffer said, the president’s sinking approval ratings are an additional problem.

“Everyone recognizes that our electoral process is tied to the president’s standings,” the aide said. “I think it’s in everyone’s best interest to get the site working again.”

The site will be the least of their problems.

The dead people and their families, on TV, come 2014, will be dire.

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 2:21 PM

So we would pay their first month ‘s premium as well if Obama has his way?????

Cripe

cmsinaz on December 5, 2013 at 2:18 PM

“Sign up now and your first month is free!”

Ward Cleaver on December 5, 2013 at 2:21 PM

I don’t know about medical, but auto insurers will.

Ward Cleaver on December 5, 2013 at 2:20 PM

I’ve never seen that. On an automatically renewed policy, maybe. But a brand new policy payment was made first.

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:21 PM

tetriskid at 2:02 PM

I hear what you’re saying, but what of it? I don’t think some 50+ year old strategy of overwhelming the system is really going to achieve the result they want. This massive failure by the Govt’ will not elicit a call for an even bigger Govt’ program of single payer. If anything (I hope) there will be a reaction against big Govt’ and a move back to private sector insurance. Hopefully improved by health savings accounts, and removing state line restrictions on insurance sales and the like. Make buying health insurance more like buying car insurance, although there are surely differences, there are enough similarities. If there’s to be any Govt’ involvement in health care in the future it should be a program to help send more capable people to Medical School.

teacherman on December 5, 2013 at 2:22 PM

When does IRS verify income to determine whether people are actually eligible?

If it turns out an ineligible person lied or mistakenly misreported income (easy to do, especially for the self-employed, since the application is so confusing), what happens to their policy? Is it voided or are they given the chance to repay the subsidy?

Nobody knows.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:17 PM

Right now, that’s not happening. The Administration allowed everyone to go on an “on your honor” system for the first year.

Bitter Clinger on December 5, 2013 at 2:22 PM

“Like I can stay on Mom and Dad’s insurance for a really long time… right?”

Sincerely.

Millennial Libiot

workingclass artist on December 5, 2013 at 2:04 PM

57% of the Yutes now disapprove of their once faux-Messiah…one simple reason–their parents have informed Jr. they can no longer afford to have him on their policy as a child rider or their ins cancellation notice has been received…watch youthful age depression rise in early 2014 when they figure out the job market sucks and now they have to buy a CrapCare policy…

hillsoftx on December 5, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Well, remember, according to the Left, healthcare is a Right.

So, Captain EO will simply issue an… EO – ta-da!!! Which will force insurers to treat people as if they had paid.

Because this insurance stuff is hard, you know.

Marcola on December 5, 2013 at 2:23 PM

ObamaCare, the gift that keeps on giving.

GarandFan on December 5, 2013 at 2:23 PM

In Jan, and shortly after, there will be videos and interviews of families…with dead people, directly as a result of obama and obama’care’. Mark this down. That will be the next phase.

RCP, you turkeys, make an ad with obama:

If you like your plan, you can keep it”

If you like your doctor, you can keep him”

If you like your provider (hospital for the Yorba Linda crowd), you can keep it”

These videos all exist.

Then Ronald Reagan “Wellll…there you go again”

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 2:23 PM

Obamacare was never intended to work. It was reported since 2009 that this was the intent.

tetriskid on December 5, 2013 at 2:02 PM

So true. I wonder how long they plan to let it fester before the “Single Payer” push begins in earnest. I am certain that the propaganda is already designed and printed. This mess is certainly the T-Bushers’ doing. Lord Obama and Rodham-Clinton-America were always for Single Payer Health Perfection…

ROCnPhilly on December 5, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Wasserman-Schmutz
Pelosi
Reid
obamagoebbels

What a quartet of thugs!

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 2:24 PM

57% of the Yutes now disapprove of their once faux-Messiah…one simple reason–their parents have informed Jr. they can no longer afford to have him on their policy as a child rider or their ins cancellation notice has been received…watch youthful age depression rise in early 2014 when they figure out the job market sucks and now they have to buy a CrapCare policy…

hillsoftx on December 5, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Yeppers. I’ve been saying for years many parents aren’t going to carry their adult children. The cost to do so is prohibitive.

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Who gives out insurance cards, before payment is received, on new policies?

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:18 PM

Yeah, I don’t think that’s going to happen unless it’s an error by the insurance company. However, given the crap data they’re being given to work with, such errors might be unavoidable.

It is December 5th and the deadline to pay is December 23rd in order to be covered on Jan 1. Most of the canceled policies expire on December 31 at midnight. The WH should be sending out blaring APBs in all directions to the effect of “if you signed up and you haven’t paid, you’re not enrolled, so pay up now.” Thousands of people, maybe tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, may be affected.

Instead the jerk is out there talking about how Congress can transfer more wealth in the form of unemployment insurance and the minimum wage.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:24 PM

I am guessing a whole lot of people have no idea what they are doing or understand what is happening when they sign up for ObamaCare.
And most probably truly believe it is free.

The video that started it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

albill on December 5, 2013 at 2:24 PM

OT (sort of): Does anyone know if the Affordable Care Act covers car care products? Cause I need to detail my car.

kcewa on December 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

It should be under the mental health section. Dirt on my car just makes me cray-cray! (say it like a 35 year old valley girl)

DanMan on December 5, 2013 at 2:25 PM

obama provides the land misery for X-mas, nothing but misery, while living like a 1%r, preaching to the sheepleton ‘against them’.

A bigger charlatan the US history never had.

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 2:25 PM

Right now, that’s not happening. The Administration allowed everyone to go on an “on your honor” system for the first year.

Bitter Clinger on December 5, 2013 at 2:22 PM

But at some point, theoretically (yeah, I know), verification kicks in, right?

So what if I lied on my form and I’m subsidized now and I get cancer and by the time verification kicks in, my insurance company has been paying claims hand over foot on what turns out to be a fraudulently obtained policy that the government forced my insurer to issue because IRS couldn’t verify income?

If I’m the insurer I’m looking for the nearest courtroom.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:27 PM

OT (sort of): Does anyone know if the Affordable Care Act covers car care products? Cause I need to detail my car.

kcewa on December 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

You can claim your car as a partner or significant other. Parent #2, maybe?

BobMbx on December 5, 2013 at 2:28 PM

Denis McDonough, in thuggish fashion “the website is on me”.

Nah, all of it is on obama and the capos who voted for obama’care’…and the website will turn out to be peanut turds, compared to the elephant chit which will overcome the land in 2014, early.

YOU will see videos of the dead and their families on TV. Mark it – they will be a direct result of obama and obama’care’.

It will be dire.

Add tot the dead and untreated the under- and un-employed by the hundreds of thousands, the former in the millions.

These goons are all about demolishing the middle class all all your freedoms, in the most transparent and thuggish way, claiming to ‘help you’.

Goebbels never had it this good, never.

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 2:29 PM

But at some point, theoretically (yeah, I know), verification kicks in, right?

So what if I lied on my form and I’m subsidized now and I get cancer and by the time verification kicks in, my insurance company has been paying claims hand over foot on what turns out to be a fraudulently obtained policy that the government forced my insurer to issue because IRS couldn’t verify income?

If I’m the insurer I’m looking for the nearest courtroom.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Exactly! Biggest thing I don’t think is even talked about nearly enough is the security aspect to this act

Static21 on December 5, 2013 at 2:31 PM

I am having a different experience. I enrolled over the phone with BCBS nine days ago. I have all my notes, my plan, premium amounts, etc. What I don’t have is an invoice. So today I called and was left on hold for 30 minutes having to disconnect the call because it ran into another scheduled business call. I sent an email to my agent that set this up as I was holding as a follow up to the message I left on agents voice mail first thing this morning. Further, when I called in I did all the right prompts for the question I had and wound up getting someone that specialized in Medicaid. She apologized and attempted to send me to the right department explaining when the system is overloaded you automatically for to the next person that is not on the phone regardless of what prompt you press.

For those that are not in the individual mandate, this beast is coming for you whether you have HC thru your employer or not.

God help us all.

booter on December 5, 2013 at 2:33 PM

But at some point, theoretically (yeah, I know), verification kicks in, right?

So what if I lied on my form and I’m subsidized now and I get cancer and by the time verification kicks in, my insurance company has been paying claims hand over foot on what turns out to be a fraudulently obtained policy that the government forced my insurer to issue because IRS couldn’t verify income?

If I’m the insurer I’m looking for the nearest courtroom.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:27 PM

I’m sure Obama has an app a bailout for that.

Bitter Clinger on December 5, 2013 at 2:37 PM

I know it’s an easy target, but I imagine that if the administration pre-pays premiums at the end of the month, they probably won’t go after the taxpayers. They’ll just send it directly to the insurers based on their number of unpaid new enrollees, and then send them a bill once things have settled down. That would make it incumbent upon the insurers to collect the full premium payment from the enrollee, so they can reimburse the government and not lose money in the deal.

The double-win for the administration there is, if the insurer doesn’t collect, then insurers are the ones taking the bath; and like every other aspect of the implementation that they’ve foisted onto the insurers, they have a scapegoat if when things don’t go smoothly.

The Schaef on December 5, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Just imagine that these are the people who are currently signing up for ObamaCare…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZxhlrQ7zt8

albill on December 5, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Scary but true Ward

cmsinaz on December 5, 2013 at 2:41 PM

So what if I lied on my form and I’m subsidized now and I get cancer and by the time verification kicks in, my insurance company has been paying claims hand over foot on what turns out to be a fraudulently obtained policy that the government forced my insurer to issue because IRS couldn’t verify income?

If I’m the insurer I’m looking for the nearest courtroom.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:27 PM

You have a right to the medical treatment proscribed by the death panel. You’re assuming that you’re going to get cancer treatment to start with.

But seriously, since you can’t be denied coverage for any reason, whats the problem with a little fraud here and there? Thats what the risk corridors are for.

Wink wink.

BobMbx on December 5, 2013 at 2:42 PM

Bah!

Wait till month 6. By then, 90% of folks who do not already budget for this expense will stop paying even if they happen to get their first payment in on time.

Deafdog on December 5, 2013 at 2:44 PM

This is no problem. King Obama shall decree that you do not have to pay your premiums in order to be covered. We are not going back no matter what happens.

jukin3 on December 5, 2013 at 2:44 PM

OT (sort of): Does anyone know if the Affordable Care Act covers car care products? Cause I need to detail my car.

kcewa on December 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

That’s covered in your state-mandated auto insurance, obviously. Why else do you think libs are so quick to liken a federal medical insurance requirement for everyone ever, to a state auto insurance requirement for people who drive? It can only be because auto insurance keeps its cost low by paying for oil changes, gas fills and detailing work.

The Schaef on December 5, 2013 at 2:45 PM

YOU will see videos of the dead and their families on TV. Mark it – they will be a direct result of obama and obama’care’.

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 2:29 PM

Yeah the pictures of some family who lost their father to cancer because treatment stopped at a critical point- that’ll be enough to bring those selfish millenials around and signed up.

Happy Nomad on December 5, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Same here. I never thought it would work(and I suspected that was intentional), but I figured it would simply be more expensive, less accessible, and riddled with unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles and cronyism(like exempting unions and Congress).

GOP has been getting lost in detail. Krauthammer gets it right, repeating on every occasion: for every person who has “enrolled,” more than 50 persons have lost their insurance due to this Obamacare monstrosity.

matthew8787 on December 5, 2013 at 2:45 PM

White House had ‘s–t the bed.’”

We always knew those Superman Underoo’s wouldn’t hold him up for long.

Key West Reader on December 5, 2013 at 2:47 PM

If I’m the insurer I’m looking for the nearest courtroom.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:27 PM

and then the patient countersues the insurer for issuing/administering a plan that is illegal under federal law.

matthew8787 on December 5, 2013 at 2:50 PM

why wouldn’t they also offer to cover the first month of premiums for new enrollees who forgot to pay so that the missing revenue is available to insurers

I don’t think this can be done. A policy is also a “contract” and one must have an insurable interest (i.e., be a PARTY to the contract) for it to be valid.

Unless of course…. OBAMA MAKES ‘EM ALL SLAVES! EEEEEEEEEEE.

/LMAO what a farked up mess this is.

Key West Reader on December 5, 2013 at 2:50 PM

If I’m the insurer I’m looking for the nearest courtroom.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 2:27 PM

and then the patient countersues the insurer for issuing/administering a plan that is illegal under federal law.

matthew8787 on December 5, 2013 at 2:50 PM

Knowing the depths of evil that this administration has plunged into, I would not be surprised that if these insurance companies can’t fix O’s mess in time?

Eric Holder will sue these insurers. On behalf of ya know.. ‘his people’.

It’s gonna happen

Key West Reader on December 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM

YOU will see videos of the dead and their families on TV. Mark it – they will be a direct result of obama and obama’care’.

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 2:29 PM

Yeah the pictures of some family who lost their father to cancer because treatment stopped at a critical point- that’ll be enough to bring those selfish millenials around and signed up.

Happy Nomad on December 5, 2013 at 2:45 PM

This has been a concern of mine. There are other health problems as well that need monitoring and meds such as MS and high blood pressure. There will be tragic consequences.

INC on December 5, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Maybe that’s because they’re short on cash right now

Just raise the minimum wage to $20/hr and we can all afford insurance!

/

mankai on December 5, 2013 at 2:57 PM

…unless the White House comes up with another “workaround.” They’ve already proved that they’re willing to overpay insurers temporarily in the interest of kickstarting enrollment; why wouldn’t they also offer to cover the first month of premiums for new enrollees who forgot to pay so that the missing revenue is available to insurers? Enrollees could pay the feds back later, maybe by having the value of those premiums withheld from their tax refunds in April if need be. (That’s how the mandate penalty will be collected, after all.) Given how lawless O has been in suspending the employer mandate and un-canceling plans, and given his willingness to perform frantic triage on the law politically by extending deadlines regardless of the policy consequences, it’s hard to believe he’d allow the nonpayment problem to wreak havoc next month. That’s the last thing Democrats need once they’ve finally made it past December 23rd and caught their breath over the holidays. Obama’s going to do something to “solve” this problem too. With your money, of course.

And take note; this is how it will be handled *all* year; they will NOT let this be an election-destroying event for them, they will do whatever it takes to make it a non-issue. With our money, of course.

Midas on December 5, 2013 at 3:01 PM

For those that are not in the individual mandate, this beast is coming for you whether you have HC thru your employer or not.

God help us all.

booter on December 5, 2013 at 2:33 PM

I know. I have BCBS through my employer and I know it’s coming.

My organization is 99.9% Obama voters and I’m going to tell my co-workers I hold them personally responsible for whatever happens to me and my family.

Best of luck with your policy – I really hope things work out.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 3:04 PM

YOU will see videos of the dead and their families on TV. Mark it – they will be a direct result of obama and obama’care’.

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 2:29 PM

They will say “oh, too bad some people fell through the cracks but it’s better than it used to be.”

You see, the people who were uninsured prior to 2010 (even though many were uninsured by choice) are more important to them than the people who are newly uninsured thanks to their Chernobyl of a law.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 3:05 PM

I know. I have BCBS through my employer and I know it’s coming.

My organization is 99.9% Obama voters and I’m going to tell my co-workers I hold them personally responsible for whatever happens to me and my family.

Best of luck with your policy – I really hope things work out.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Count your blessings. It’s gotta be at least 99.99% where I am.

mankai on December 5, 2013 at 3:06 PM

I’ve never seen that. On an automatically renewed policy, maybe. But a brand new policy payment was made first.

NotCoach on December 5, 2013 at 2:21 PM

Erie always sends me the policy renewal and the cards before they send me the bill. The bill usually comes about two weeks after. The policy renewal is always plainly marked with “This is not an invoice. Invoice will follow in a separate mailing”. I’ve had them so long I don’t really remember what happened when I first signed them. I’m sure I paid the premium up front though.

Oldnuke on December 5, 2013 at 3:07 PM

I don’t think this can be done. A policy is also a “contract” and one must have an insurable interest (i.e., be a PARTY to the contract) for it to be valid.

You and your quaint contract law. None of that means anything to these people.

Missy on December 5, 2013 at 3:07 PM

But the hot chick on Youtube said not to worry about the price tag.

Chuck Schick on December 5, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Health-care reporters have been zeroed in lately on the 834 error rate, i.e. the rate of garbled or phantom enrollment data transmitted from Healthcare.gov to insurance companies as people sign up.

I’m still worried about this aspect. What if you’re signed up, paid up but turn out to be one of these garbled transmitted phantoms? What is the process to prove coverage? What recourse is available? There’s no talk of this at all.

ChicagoBlue on December 5, 2013 at 3:27 PM

OT (sort of): Does anyone know if the Affordable Care Act covers car care products? Cause I need to detail my car.

kcewa on December 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

I think the ObamaEBT card covers everything! Even pimps and hoe’s and MacDawnalds.

Key West Reader on December 5, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Oldnuke on December 5, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Pardon us, folks, me and Oldnuke are gonna speak in code for a while.

The other day, in casual conversation, I used the horse:

Trim Drain
Shaft Main
Dive Drive
EPM

But I couldn’t remember it was for the vital or non-vital busses. I think its vital. Been away too long.

Do you remember?

BobMbx on December 5, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Knowing the depths of evil that this administration has plunged into, I would not be surprised that if these insurance companies can’t fix O’s mess in time?

Eric Holder will sue these insurers. On behalf of ya know.. ‘his people’.

It’s gonna happen

Key West Reader on December 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM

I’m not so sure. At some point Obama is going to need federal dollars he cannot get his hands on, moneys that have not already been authorized someplace in the statute that he is lawlessly evading.

Along similar lines, the overall structure of the program needs money from policy holders. If I understand correctly, Obama’s various slush funds can accommodate some dislocations, but he cannot wholesale forego premium payments from individuals. He’d rather people wind up on Medicaid or go uninsured.

Unless he can lawlessly spend himself out of this mess, one senses an implosion coming, because subsidy or no subsidy, the American people will not or cannot afford these premiums, and this is just round one.

matthew8787 on December 5, 2013 at 3:31 PM

I’m still worried about this aspect. What if you’re signed up, paid up but turn out to be one of these garbled transmitted phantoms? What is the process to prove coverage? What recourse is available? There’s no talk of this at all.

ChicagoBlue on December 5, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Get real. People who’ve already paid a premium are at the bottom of the priority list.

If Obama does waive premiums for the parasites, all Hell is going to break loose from those who have paid. These are people who are scaling back Christmas gifts to pay these extortionist premiums.

matthew8787 on December 5, 2013 at 3:35 PM

What happens in January when the continuing resolution runs out?

What happens in February when we hit the debt ceiling again?

.

.

.

.

.

When the walls come tumbling down!

Epiclusterfarknado will be the catalyst to it all and Barky’s name will be all over it eternity!


“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part; you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you’ve got to make it stop. And you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all.”
Mario Savio
&
Used by Linkin Park – “Wretches And Kings”

D-fusit on December 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

These guys who “planned” this whole zer0care mess are twenty times dumber than Wile E. Coyote. Seriously.

MisterElephant on December 5, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Stop calling it a penalty for crying out loud! IT’S A TAX!

HiJack on December 5, 2013 at 3:58 PM

Nixon was fond of saying that the country didn’t need a president for domestic matters, that the US economy was so strong “it would take a genius to wreck it.”

Nixon was wrong. We are witnessing that a petulant, juvenile, deceitful economic illiterate can wreck it.

matthew8787 on December 5, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Yesterday I guesstimated, based on the most recent enrollment numbers, that something like 1.5 million people will sign up by December 23rd. Not every insurer will have a payment rate as poor as the one in Indiana cited above, but even if you triple it and assume 60 percent are paying on time, that’s still 600,000 people — roughly the population of Washington D.C.

Wouldn’t the math work out to 900,000? (I’m not saying this weakens the point being made at all)

farnham on December 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM

What difference does it make if folks aren’t really signed up or not? You can always signup after the fact anyway.

TexAz on December 5, 2013 at 4:15 PM

Icks-nay on the elp-hay.

The more people are blindsided with this stuff, the better.

Sinner on December 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM

Funny

Schadenfreude on December 5, 2013 at 4:46 PM

5.5 million policies cancelled.
900,000 enrolled by Dec 31, per this blog post.

That equals 4.6 million formerly covered people without health insurance on January 1, 2014. I thought ObamaCare was supposed to reduce the number of people without health insurance. Is this some sort of weird progressive trick?

Here’s what you can say progressives:

It’s better to have no insurance than to have bad-apple policies from scam insurance companies.

That should work.

stefano1 on December 5, 2013 at 5:14 PM

Here are a few “fun” facts:

Most people think the website problems killed the first two months of sign-ups, beginning on October 1st of this year. Fact is, it killed at least three — this is Christmas season folks!

The Administration now is trying to “make up” for lost time — Many more purchases of health insurance, including through the website, have to be made on average per day, in order to ever meet the goals of the law. But that is not happening, even with the site back up. The number of new enrollees (since Dec 1st) is only a small percentage of what is needed.

There are estimates out there indicating there is a necessity of achieving a few hundred thousand “enrollees” per day going forward for the Administration to hope meet the goals set by the law.

However, in the first TWO days of the “new and improved” site opening up one source indicated that only 29,000 people actually went though the process, while another estimate was that only 56,000 went through the process in the first THREE days. Obviously both estimates represent only a very small percentage of what is actually needed.

And even those two estimated number of completions number is not really meaningful. According to some sources, 30% of those filings have errors, and are therefore, not completed.

Plus, the only meaningful number is the number of those who complete the process AND pay for it, but there is no back end payment mechanism available through the site!

Even though the need for the front end “fixes” meant that it was December 1st before people could realistically begin to “navigate” the website, the deadlines going forward did not change. Therefore, all of those goals are now utterly unrealistic.

Most people think the Administration lost TWO months during the down time, and now is straining to making up for the lost time without a change in the law.

But consider the following fact that no one is writing about:

Christmas season began on “black Friday” just before the site went live. People who might have been willing to “part” with larger sums to buy health insurance during October, and maybe even in November, are now faced with the financial choice of purchasing health insurance OR purchasing Christmas presents.

Take a wild guess how that will go for the rest of this month!

Thus, as of January 1, 2014, less than one month from now, all Americans will be required by law to have health insurance, but the primary mechanism by which they would have accomplished that has been worthless and unrealistic.

Soon thereafter, the deadline to apply for health coverage in order to avoid paying an IRS enforced penalty of up to 1 percent of one’s income, will occur. By law that will occur on February 15, 2014.

Now, it is true that that deadline is not identical to the one that officially marks the end of the government imposed open-enrollment period. That date will be on March 31, 2014.

But, even though those enrolling during “open enrollment” will be able to sign on AFTER February 15, 2014, they will be required to pay the penalty.

Hey, kids guess what happens even if you do comply? You still get fined!

By the time April rolls around, I’d be willing to predict that Barack Obama’s favorability ratings could easily be in the mid-twenties. Why? Because the very people he needs to shore up the support of, will be the hardest economically hit between now and April.

This is without a doubt the biggest governmental screw-up I can ever recall.

And, I remember Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson.

This is a full bore catastrophe.

Trochilus on December 5, 2013 at 5:15 PM

This was never supposed to work.

Obamacare was written by a 1960′s SDS radical (Wade Rathke) at the Apollo Group using the Cloward–Piven theory to “overwhelm the system.”

The fact that people are still pretending to be “shocked” that this isn’t working to pathetic.

Obamacare was never intended to work. It was reported since 2009 that this was the intent.

tetriskid on December 5, 2013 at 2:02 PM

So true. I wonder how long they plan to let it fester before the “Single Payer” push begins in earnest. I am certain that the propaganda is already designed and printed. This mess is certainly the T-Bushers’ doing. Lord Obama and Rodham-Clinton-America were always for Single Payer Health Perfection…

ROCnPhilly on December 5, 2013 at 2:24 PM

I’ve thought this more than once in the last few weeks.
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avagreen on December 5, 2013 at 5:23 PM

I SHALL NOT COMPLY.

I shall not sign up for their despotic insurance plan.

I shall not pay their fine even the temporary pittance that it is., if they come after me for not paying their ‘protection’.

If I get sick, I’ll pay cash to the doctor, hospital, like I have for the last 20 years. If I don’t have enough money or assets, I’ll suffer or die.

I shall not comply.

LegendHasIt on December 5, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Barack Hussein Obama is a despicable Marxist PIG and TRAITOR to Americans.

There, I feel better.

csdeven on December 5, 2013 at 6:24 PM

obama keeps looking down. no eye contact.

the man is sick.

renalin on December 5, 2013 at 7:07 PM

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listens2glenn on December 5, 2013 at 7:22 PM

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