“Walking Dead” grumble thread: Everybody hurts

posted at 7:41 pm on December 2, 2013 by Allahpundit

Just this once, I’ll start with someone else’s grumble. They’ve lost Lileks for good:

Last night’s episode had the obligatory Big Thing for the mid-season climax, and while it’s nice that everyone’s out of the prison, it’s too bad about the obligatory Major Character Death. Where will they go next? Who’s left? How will they regroup?

I don’t know and I don’t care. There were some scenes from the first season shown during the commercial breaks, and the shot of Rick riding a horse into Atlanta reminded me how stark and gripping the show used to be when the disaster was fresh. Now it’s a slog from fort to fort, with uplifting subplots like “everyone’s dying of the flu” and new characters who exist only to die next season. Forget it. I’m done. At some point last night I noted that one of the characters was using a filing cabinet as a shield, and the bullets didn’t go through. It didn’t even have a drawer.

It’s worse than that: At one point Daryl was using a dead zombie as a shield against close-range machine-gun fire. Don’t be fooled by the fact that they’re falling apart from injury and decomposition; as it turns out, the undead are made out of Kevlar. But let’s not overthink it — that scene was really just the writers’ way of reassuring fans that they don’t have the stones to kill off Daryl. The Governor could have set off a tactical nuclear weapon at the prison and somehow Daryl would have emerged from the mushroom cloud, hair gelled to messy perfection. If Rick is the show’s Odysseus, Daryl is Achilles. Would any mortal man possess a quiver of crossbow arrows that somehow never empties even though every other resource in the zombie apocalypse, especially/including ammo, is scarce? I ask you.

So yeah, Lileks is right. The show is ridiculous, aimlessly lurching from one post-civilizational quagmire to the other. No one tries to make contact with the outside world; no one tries to decipher what caused the zombie outbreak and how it might be stopped. They’re not only post-civilization, they’re essentially post-narrative. It’s “Lord of the Flies” forever. But — that was one nifty free-for-all at the end last night, no? Best zombie-genre shoot ‘em up I’ve seen since the raid on the mall at the end of “Dawn of the Dead.” Not even the requisite cliches (climactic fistfight between the hero and villain, Michonne keeping her promise to liquidate ol’ eyepatch, etc) could spoil it. The only disappointment was not getting to see the zombies dig into the Governor. Why did Maggie shoot him rather than leave him to be eaten alive? And why didn’t we get an obligatory scene of pathos involving Maggie weeping over Hershel’s horrible reanimated zombie head? Easy pickings, writing staff.

At least they’re out of the prison now. Exit question: What’s next for colorful, inventive characters like Glenn, Bob the alcoholic, and the blonde girl whose name I can never remember? Just two months until the next grumble thread.

Update: Oops — evidently I mistook the Governor’s girlfriend for Maggie. That explains why she shot him. It was a mercy killing, just like him shooting little Megan to stop her from zombifying was.

Update: Wasn’t little Megan already dead when the Governor shot her? I realize he’s psycho, but there’s no earthly reason for him to have killed her for hateful reasons.


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I have seen countless beheading videos but for some “crazy” reason that made me take pause. I liked Hershel. You can’t come back. Hershel told Rick you can but then just before death he came to peace that some just can’t and things will still be alright. It should have been one complete cut with a CGI head fly off. Not the tease that he might survive until the gov comes up when he is beading out and competes the job. Just where does one get tanks shells for a 1975 era tank and not have used the whole supply long before the prison.

Prediction for next season is that Judith is alive with the kids and Tyreese. They will run into Carol who will tell that she killed Karen but it does not matter any more as they have all killed alive people to save the group. Still not sure of the rat bait and the feeding the rats. Thought it was the Lizzie when she names the walker but not sure any more. Will it be back or will the person that did it died in the attack. Those where some weak army that the gov had. They had the tank and thought that was all they needed.

Robert Kirkman said on the Talking dead that when a main character dies they go out with style and not the “red shirt” treatment. As Carol did not die she can still be back.

That Walking dead are not the “dead” walkers but the living people that are dead they just don’t know it yet. But could survive a long time but they are sill just walking dead.

tjexcite on December 2, 2013 at 10:00 PM

KMav on December 2, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Heelarius.

HellCat on December 2, 2013 at 10:05 PM

I liked the episode. *shrugs*

And does anyone else think Carl is gonna end up being the psycho feeding the zombies and torturing rats?

Jack_Burton on December 2, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Me too. Better than most things on TV that I can’t be bothered to even turn it on for.

I think Carl’s past rodents and playing with zombies. He’d take his silencer out and shoot walkers, not feed them. It’s probably the girls because one of them was treating the walkers like pets (for instance the one who had the name patch on his shirt).

kim roy on December 2, 2013 at 10:08 PM

And why didn’t we get an obligatory scene of pathos involving Maggie weeping over Hershel’s horrible reanimated zombie head?

Good, I’m not the only one that was worried by Hershel’s head being left to reanimate!

Let me just leave an important safety tip for post apocalyptic prison defenders. When fired upon take cover, then return fire. When in a defensive position don’t put your weapon on full auto. Aim at your targets using the helpful sights or scope on your weapon.

claudius on December 2, 2013 at 10:09 PM

I thought it was a good finale. I don’t know what you expect from this show. Why do you keep watching the show,though, if you clearly hate it?

rexbatt on December 2, 2013 at 10:09 PM

One question, what was Tyrese showing Rick and Darryl when they were interrupted by the attack? Anybody know or have an opinion?

jazzuscounty on December 2, 2013 at 8:14 PM

It’s the rat-feeders hole.

Apparently, someone’s been living in there since before they arrived. It could be anybody, most likely a prisoner.

But the premise makes no sense. If he was feeding the zombies so they would overrun the place and get rid of Rick’s crew, the walkers would smell the rat-feeder and eventually find him.

What I’m wondering is if it foreshadows a return to the prison. Because if showing a human nest is how the wrap up that loose end, then they’re seriously writing on the fly.

budfox on December 2, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Whoever that girl/child is who took that fatal shot protecting Tyrell is my guess as to “who is feeding the Walkers with rats” and likely made that Rat-Skin-Wall-Hanging.

She’s Carol’s protege, she was the one who refused to run and leave the Prison when told to and instead ran back into the Prison after it obviously was lost to Rick’s crowd.

Have no idea where that character spoilage will lead in this Series, nor what the Series will do about the now-wandering-absent Carol, but I appreciated the dampening cautionary statement made by Daryl at the beginning of this latest Episode: “that wasn’t her” when told about Carol’s recent guilt admission to Rick about her psychotic breakdown murdering peers in the Prison.

And all the military-vs-Walkers disbelief is strange to me. The whatever-it-is that’s causing people to “go zombie” obviously affected all the humans, including those in the military, such that all it took was one death among them and boom, twenty more Walkers among their surrounding crew. Ad infinitum, everyone’s quickly a Walker/zombie.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:09 PM

What I don’t understand about the show grumblers is who they’re supposed to contact or what they’re supposed to “solve” about the zombies.

Atlanta is the 9th most populous city in the US, it had a military presence, and the headquarters of the CDC. There wasn’t going to be a place safer than that, anyone more qualified to investigate the plague. And they’re gone.

Everywhere they’ve gone since then has been less safe. The farm was remote but it was also out in the open, and overrun the first time a herd came through. Plus Shane was killing off members of the living. The prison was under constant zombie assault, and they got into a war with Woodbury. The longer this goes on, the less safe they’ll be, the more people they’ll lose, and the people they encounter will be more and more the ones who have left civilized society.

They are the walking dead, as Rick will speechify sooner or later, if he hasn’t already, and the more characters eventually abandon hope, the stranger it seems that viewers would complain that the story isn’t angling toward some miracle cure or zombie-proof installation like Woodbury-without-the-psychos.

The Schaef on December 2, 2013 at 10:12 PM

At least they’re out of the prison now. Exit question: What’s next for colorful, inventive characters like Glenn, Bob the alcoholic, and the blonde girl whose name I can never remember? Just two months until the next grumble thread.

“DON’T LOOK BACK!”

I sense a corner’s turned in the Series.

In partial reference to actor David Morrissey’s remark about his character, “The Governor” in the Episode before last, before the Prison Assault and Governor’s return to Psycho Dictator mode.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:12 PM

The prison theme was getting a little old, so this was a good time to jettison it. They tried to hole up, and it didn’t work. Time to try again elsewhere. It would be good for someone to try and figure the virus out, but survival keeps getting in the way, except for that episode with the underground scientist dude.

Few things:

1. Rick still carries the show. Darryl is cool but is necessary as The Rogue Element, not John Wayne. Rick still retains the drive to carry on, to pull people together, even when it fails.

2. You can’t deny you want to see how The Scattering goes in February’s return episode. That more than makes up for the gunfire mistakes.

3. I would have let the Governor turn. Michonne’s ultimate revenge.

4. Hell yes it’s better than watching pathetic reality shows. Except Survivorman.

shades_of_gasden on December 2, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Never said she was dead…. (dramatic soap opera music!!!). I’m thinking someone from the Governor’s camp picked her up…. I’m more of the line of thinking that they’ll never see her again.

mjk

My bad. I assumed by gone you meant dead, since it was pretty obvious she was gone, lol. As for someone picking her up to be never seen again, how would we ever know that if she was never seen again?

Sorry, but “Is Judith dead or alive” is one of the key cliffhangers of the episode. No way that’s how this is going to play out. She’ll be seen again, it’s just a matter of who has her. And make no mistake it will be a tearful reunion when Rick and Carl find out lil’ asskicker is still alive.

xblade on December 2, 2013 at 10:16 PM

So yeah, Lileks is right. The show is ridiculous, aimlessly lurching from one post-civilizational quagmire to the other. No one tries to make contact with the outside world; no one tries to decipher what caused the zombie outbreak and how it might be stopped. They’re not only post-civilization, they’re essentially post-narrative. It’s “Lord of the Flies” forever.

I doubt that Lileks would if not could ever appreciate such a Series, what with his insistance on Logic. That works in many areas of life but it doesn’t work as to enjoying some forms of filmic fiction, particularly of the outrageous zombie varieties.

Just imagine you’ve been without hot, running water, decent or even existant kitchen facilities, fresh food, any level of kindness from society, you’ve had to bash in the heads people who are dead but remain animated and who are hellbent on eating you and yours, FOR YEARS, and how reasonable and rightly would YOUR actions be?

That these people are barely hanging on to any level of decency and civilized behaviors, affections for others, empathy included, is the real story here. The world’s gone to Madness and Lileks complains they’re not building the internet. Or a vehicle to sail to Mars.

Riight. The whole point of the “reality of the story” is that these remaining characters (Rick, Daryl, Maggie, etc.) is that they’re still hanging on despite all odds.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:18 PM

How long can zombies live without water? After a certain amount of time wouldn’t they be mummies?

oldroy on December 2, 2013 at 9:13 PM

And eventually all zombies SHOULD literally fall apart.

My question is why there are still so many of the Walkers after all this time (what’s the time-passed by now, several years since the outbreak, I wonder). Most of them, the ones who haven’t managed to find someone else “to eat” should have, by now, literally decomposed along the lines of falling apart, literally, appendages falling off, heads rolling off torsos, etc.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:22 PM

It was really exciting. All the people died who were supposed to, but it was still fun. That little girl with the head shot towards the end was the best. Absolutely awesome.

Dongemaharu on December 2, 2013 at 7:59 PM

I literally shouted “Woa!” at that moment. I’m not getting my hopes up for zombie baby. I’m thinking Michonne, Tara, or Tyreese will be caring for baby Judith. The show doesn’t have the stones to kill the baby. And count on Carol showing up at a critical moment to save the day, either at the February premier, or the season finale.

Eastwood Ravine on December 2, 2013 at 10:24 PM

I enjoyed the episode.

I am probably one of the few who still likes Rick. Do I think he’s particularly likeable ALL THE TIME? Of course not. But I think he is constantly trying to keep his humanity in an increasingly inhumane world…

I guess I don’t belong on this thread since I clearly am not grumbling about the show….

mjk on December 2, 2013 at 9:16 PM

You’re not alone in your views. I favor RIck’s character, too, though the writers need to give him more meaningful dialogue and less scenes of him wandering around as if lost in ~feelings~ — despite his horrendous experiences up to now, I think the point’s long since been made that the guy was traumatized but is managing to keep on despite the odds.

I’m wondering the baby Judith was grabbed by Michonne and saved, leaving an empty baby-carrier to be bloodied by the assaultive events afterward by others dripping over it.

I like the Episode, too. It’s finally moved forward. I was finding the infection-scenes of earlier Episodes too much to “enjoy” in any way so this last Episode has finally moved events forward, leaving expectation for February. I hope we’re not disappointed when Series reappears…but Herschel was the center of the story up to now, emotionally, so there’s a core there that needs to be replaced as to the characters.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:29 PM

I’m good with TWD – unless they bring Carol back sporting an eyepatch, then it’s time to vamoose…

Bruno Strozek on December 2, 2013 at 10:32 PM

Is the Governor really dead? The gun shot was never shown. His still less body never shown.

KMav

He’s dead. The chess piece that the little girl gave him that was crushed under the zombie’s foot symbolizes the end of the governor, though I guess it could simply symbolize his defeat, but I don’t think so. Whether she shot him or not, there’s no coming back from that wound in the zombie apocalypse.

xblade on December 2, 2013 at 10:35 PM

Just where does one get tanks shells for a 1975 era tank and not have used the whole supply long before the prison…

tjexcite on December 2, 2013 at 10:00 PM

I wondered about that same thing…

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:36 PM

My question is why there are still so many of the Walkers after all this time (what’s the time-passed by now, several years since the outbreak, I wonder). Most of them, the ones who haven’t managed to find someone else “to eat” should have, by now, literally decomposed along the lines of falling apart, literally, appendages falling off, heads rolling off torsos, etc.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:22 PM

It’s interesting that their flesh is literally falling off their bones, but their teeth don’t fall out, and their jaws are strong enough to bite through to arteries. Here’s a question. What would happen to zombies in cold climates? Would they freeze and thaw repeatedly and fall apart faster or would they be preserved longer? Hopefully a zombie expert will come forward to answer our questions.

claudius on December 2, 2013 at 10:46 PM

…Hopefully a zombie expert will come forward to answer our questions.

claudius on December 2, 2013 at 10:46 PM

Hahaha, riiight.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:48 PM

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:22 PM

It’s interesting that their flesh is literally falling off their bones, but their teeth don’t fall out, and their jaws are strong enough to bite through to arteries…

claudius on December 2, 2013 at 10:46 PM

And their eyeballs! Their flesh has rotted away but they still have viable synovium! And eyesight (in this Series, anyway) (World War Z seems to have suggested that their Zombies were motivated by reactions to sound and scent).

I think it’s stretching things just too far, though, in any representation of Zombies in any way to depict them as viable after several years. They’re supposedly deceased flesh, and that decomposes really quickly, despite some sort of “protective Zombie Bug”. That’s my best guess…

…BUT IT’S FICTION! I guess they can put Zombies on the Moon and they’re still able to defy biology…

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Interesting subplots forming.

1. The same girls that Carol taught to shoot, ended up saving Tyreese, who wants to kill Carol for killing his future Zombie girlfriend.

2. Where was Carl during this Melee?

3. The baby is on the bus.

portlandon on December 2, 2013 at 10:56 PM

Sad to see the old guy die. He was the quiet conscience/last attachment to humanity of the group.

Watching the Talking Dead show afterward, the woman who plays his daughter on the show was in tears about his leaving the show. He really is a good actor.

portlandon on December 2, 2013 at 10:58 PM

Watching the Talking Dead show afterward, the woman who plays his daughter on the show was in tears about his leaving the show. He really is a good actor.

portlandon on December 2, 2013 at 10:58 PM

You and I disagree on a lot, but we agree here. Scott Wilson is a brilliant actor.

GOPRanknFile on December 2, 2013 at 11:11 PM

Don’t worry about trying to contact outside help. Eddie will be along any moment now with his secret mission to get to Washington DC where they just about have everything wrapped up!

:D

hadsil on December 2, 2013 at 11:17 PM

Sad to see the old guy die. He was the quiet conscience/last attachment to humanity of the group.

Watching the Talking Dead show afterward, the woman who plays his daughter on the show was in tears about his leaving the show. He really is a good actor.

portlandon on December 2, 2013 at 10:58 PM

Yes, actor Scott Wilson really is a talented one.

Everyone needs to see IN COLD BLOOD in which a very young Wilson plays one of the leads, the con artist hustler involved in the other terrible crimes.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 11:41 PM

Portlandon:

To your pt 3. This episode was very similar to the comics.

Lionheart on December 2, 2013 at 11:44 PM

Scott wilson also appeared on the x files. Quite a few actors have appeared in both shows.

Lionheart on December 2, 2013 at 11:47 PM

Tyrese has Judith. In the scene where the girls save him they run and Tyrese yells that they’re going the wrong way. Then when the tank blows up the walkway at the 56 minute mark or so you can see Tyrese running out of a doorway carrying something.

buckichick1 on December 3, 2013 at 6:05 AM

Seems like the author would rather be doing reruns of life with the kardashians.

ok, the show could be better, but even now its a lot better than a lot of stuff, MTV the real world for example.

There are a few items i have to comment on, like the Governor told his new MILITIA, we have to attack and take, they are killers ect.

But when Rick says “hey we got room come on in and enjoy”, why did the militia go “wait a minute governor, these guys look ok”.

And why knock down the fence with the tank, when he could have just
drove to the gate and gone thru that.

And what kind of idiots attack uphill in the open against a group that has cover.

oh well, looking forward to Episode 9 in Feb

sniffles1999 on December 3, 2013 at 7:39 AM

Would any mortal man possess a quiver of crossbow arrows that somehow never empties even though every other resource in the zombie apocalypse, especially/including ammo, is scarce? I ask you.

Allahpundit

We often see Daryl pulling arrows from those he’s wiped out.

SauerKraut537 on December 3, 2013 at 8:38 AM

I liked the episode. *shrugs*

And does anyone else think Carl is gonna end up being the psycho feeding the zombies and torturing rats?

Jack_Burton on December 2, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Yeah, I was thinking this too. I also think Carl killed Karen and David, and Carol was covering for him when she admitted to Rick that she killed him. I think he started to go overboard when he shot the kid in the Season 3 finale.

What would happen to zombies in cold climates? Would they freeze and thaw repeatedly and fall apart faster or would they be preserved longer? Hopefully a zombie expert will come forward to answer our questions.

claudius on December 2, 2013 at 10:46 PM

Rick and Shane had a discussion about this in Season 2. They were talking about how during the winter the walkers wouldn’t be as much of a threat because they’d freeze up (no circulatory system to keep them warm) and then they’d see renewed attacks in the spring.

PetecminMd on December 3, 2013 at 8:46 AM

Don’t worry about trying to contact outside help. Eddie will be along any moment now with his secret mission to get to Washington DC where they just about have everything wrapped up!

:D

hadsil on December 2, 2013 at 11:17 PM

…and those unfortunate undead can finally get the healthcare coverage they’ve been denied! Republicans obviously caused this rampant disease due to denying affordable healthcare coverage! Emperor Obama has decreed that living is a right, and intends to redistribute life from those who have it to those who don’t!

dominigan on December 3, 2013 at 9:00 AM

Remember — decapitating someone doesn’t mean they won’t turn into a zombie (see, e.g., the Governor’s fishtanks). So, unless someone gave Herschel a headshot, his head remains undead in front of that prison. Horrible.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on December 3, 2013 at 9:20 AM

Decapitating may be the wrong word — should have been beheading, I guess.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on December 3, 2013 at 9:25 AM

I’m not a big fan of the tv series, but I do watch it regularly. I think the comic it’s based on was (is) better, but is MUCH more depressing. See issue 100 for example, or see the actual resolution of the prison storyline in the comic for real carnage and jaw dropping death. Issue 100 killed my interest in the comic – it’s just one depressing situation after the other. It gets old.

That said, if Allahpundit just biatches and moans about the series each week, why watch it or even blog about it? It’s only because he wants hits to this site, which he apparently feels he can’t get unless he hitches his horse to a more “popular” form of entertainment, even if it’s just to try to undermine it. And that’s pathetic.

Move on, watch something you do like, or blog about something you do think is “good television”.

Saltyron on December 3, 2013 at 9:48 AM

Was it ever established that Carol killed the two sick people. She burned the bodies but did she only stake their heads after finding them dead and then burn the bodies to try and prevent the spread? I don’t think she is as crazy as most here think she is. I don’t think she was wrong to teach the kids survival. It’s not the world those kid’s parents grew up in no matter how much they want to try and make it so. Kids and adults that can not face the reality of the new world are really the walking dead.

I think it was the creepy little blond girl that was doing the rat stuff.

Why would there be a shortage of ammo and guns? It’s only been a few years since the plague and it looks like only 1 in a 1000 or maybe 1 in 10,000 were immune. There should be plenty of non food supplies in the tens of thousands of stores still around.

I think that the governor’s girlfriend will become the new Herschel and maybe even a love interest for Rick. She is a medic and has a good moral foundation. She will also adopt Rick’s baby out of grief for her dead child.

My grumbles.
The breach had to be open on that tank for the grenade to have done the damage it did. Can the breach be left open and if so could a grenade get into a position to do that kind of damage?

Rotten dead people make very poor shields as does light sheet metal office furniture.

The governor was less then a hundred yards away from the people with long guns. If the governor and the tank guy was shot the whole thing would have been over at that point.

People on both sides were really, really bad shots.

Dr. Frank Enstine on December 3, 2013 at 9:48 AM

And all the military-vs-Walkers disbelief is strange to me. The whatever-it-is that’s causing people to “go zombie” obviously affected all the humans, including those in the military, such that all it took was one death among them and boom, twenty more Walkers among their surrounding crew. Ad infinitum, everyone’s quickly a Walker/zombie.

Lourdes on December 2, 2013 at 10:09 PM

By the looks of everything when Rick woke up it seems like the plague claimed victims very quickly maybe only over a matter of days or weeks. How long could Rick have survived before dying of dehydration or starvation? It would also explain the abandoned cars all over the roads. Whatever happen was very quick and very few survived. Maybe only 1 in 10,000 people were immune. The military would have been to busy trying to contain the outbreaks in it’s own ranks to be very effective in containing it anywhere else.

Dr. Frank Enstine on December 3, 2013 at 9:56 AM

If Allahpundit really disliked the show, he wouldn’t have his eyes glued to it every Sunday.

Blake on December 3, 2013 at 9:59 AM

I was hoping Michonne was going to take the Governor’s arms and jaw and use him for zombie protection.

The show has gone far afield of the graphic novels, but that is understandable. As cruel/twisted the Governor was, he is a piker compared to some the group runs across in the books.

ej_pez on December 3, 2013 at 10:29 AM

Me too. Better than most things on TV that I can’t be bothered to even turn it on for.

I think Carl’s past rodents and playing with zombies. He’d take his silencer out and shoot walkers, not feed them. It’s probably the girls because one of them was treating the walkers like pets (for instance the one who had the name patch on his shirt).

kim roy on December 2, 2013 at 10:08 PM

As far as the rats go, I think it is the girl that keeps talking about how Carol taught them to be strong. (Lizzie?) I’m also thinking that she killed the two people and Carol helped her drag the bodies outside and burn them. That is probably a stretch.

Also, who thinks that Rick is going to run into Carol and she is going to save him? lol I’d love to see that! “Rick is faced with surviving and refusing to be saved by a person he cast out?” Oh the irony!

csdeven on December 3, 2013 at 10:41 AM

The breach had to be open on that tank for the grenade to have done the damage it did. Can the breach be left open and if so could a grenade get into a position to do that kind of damage?

Rotten dead people make very poor shields as does light sheet metal office furniture.

The governor was less then a hundred yards away from the people with long guns. If the governor and the tank guy was shot the whole thing would have been over at that point.

People on both sides were really, really bad shots.

Dr. Frank Enstine on December 3, 2013 at 9:48 AM

If there was a round in the chamber, it would have exploded. But most likely only blew up the barrel. Either way, to the laymen, AND myself (who thinks it is good TV) and is believable.

Yeah, even the uninformed have to wonder how the shields being used are stopping bullets.

I think no one shot the gov and the tank dude was because they really thought Rick could negotiate a deal. And Rick did wound him.

HAHAHA I’ve hit running deer with my .308 at 70 yards. Hitting a stationary target at 150 yards would be real doable.

Still, it’s good TV.

csdeven on December 3, 2013 at 10:49 AM

3. I would have let the Governor turn. Michonne’s ultimate revenge.

shades_of_gasden on December 2, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Agreed. I hope that gunshot didn’t hit him in the head.

DarkCurrent on December 3, 2013 at 10:52 AM

Tyrese has Judith. In the scene where the girls save him they run and Tyrese yells that they’re going the wrong way. Then when the tank blows up the walkway at the 56 minute mark or so you can see Tyrese running out of a doorway carrying something.

buckichick1 on December 3, 2013 at 6:05 AM

Good catch! I believe you’re right.

DarkCurrent on December 3, 2013 at 10:53 AM

@ej_pez,

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one hoping for a bit of “Governor on a leash.”

txGreg on December 3, 2013 at 11:53 AM

I’ve been waiting for this grumblethread. I liked this episode, arguably the best of the season so far, but I hated losing Herschel.

My thoughts are that since Maggie wasn’t hysterical when the bus left without everyone, they all have a place picked out to meet up. Maybe not all will get there, but I don’t think they’re all lost from each other forever. As for the blood in Judith’s carseat, didn’t Tyreese get nicked in the firefight? He would have bled as he picked her up, gathered up the little girls, hopefully met up with Sascha, and headed out.

I’m liking Carl more and more. He was an annoying little brat, and then he became sort of psycho (understandable), but now he seems to have matured, and he strikes me as a future leader. And I hope they don’t kill Daryl.

But this show has a way of upending expectations, except that I wish the characters would have a few victories, and not constant defeat.

RebeccaH on December 3, 2013 at 12:04 PM

i see earlier the topic of michonne having the gov on a leash, that would have been so payback.

I guess that hershel and the gov wanted a pay raise for season 5.
thats why they got wacked.

sniffles1999 on December 3, 2013 at 1:16 PM

and the blonde girl whose name I can never remember?

everytime we notice her, about once every 2-3 weeks, i turend to my son and say the same thing: i thoght she died in season 2? neither one of us knows her name. and we dont care. and we wish she was dead, so we would stop be surprised she is still alive, inexplicably.

t8stlikchkn on December 3, 2013 at 3:31 PM

No! That’s Beth — Herschel’s kid. She took to her bed in season 2 but came back strong season 3. She hugged Rick. She hugged Daryl. She sings. This season, she fixed what was wrong with Michonne and is a pretty good zombie killer. She’s way too cute to be eaten. :)

Blake on December 3, 2013 at 4:03 PM

What’s with the whining?

This was the best episode from this Season!

LurkerDood on December 3, 2013 at 6:02 PM

I think Allah missed the fact that this ep had a very Conservative bent. Please let me state my argument:

1. From the opening of this season, Rick has decided to leave his gun behind most of the time, preferring to be a farmer.

a) Rick’s decision to heed Hershel’s warning about his son hardening and becoming a Daryl-like badass led to his son becoming hesitant and whiney whenever he had to brandish a weapon. In one scene his voice rises in a boyish manner as he tells Rick he was forced to use a gun but “didn’t want to”. He didn’t want to? These are zombies, after all.

2. When Hershel (and Michonne) are being held by the Governor, with a gun to Hershel’s head, Rick gives a very Chamberlainesque “Why can’t we all just get along?” speech, and Hershel smiles as if to say, “Good work”. He basically offers part of the Prison to the Governor as his own private Sudatenland. Meanwhile, Carl has the Governor in his sights and could have shot him, but because of Rick and Hershel’s teachings, doesn’t. Hershel’s reward for Rick’s speech? He loses his head.

a) Basically, the lesson learned by Carl to shoot first and ask questions later (after Dale was murdered by the Zombie he failed to shoot) was the right one. The new lesson of Liberal pondering and negotiation ALWAYS fails in the face of a Dictator.

3. Former tough guy Rick (who stood toe to toe with his former best friend Shane in a fist fight over his family) gets beaten to a pulp by the Governor. This is the outcome of his weakness. He has gotten soft in his role as a farmer.

4. The Philosophy of Rick was counter to that of Carol, and I know there is some debate about killing the two people who had “the disease”, but Rick never asks if they were on the verge of dying when she killed them. I suspect they were, and Carol did them in rather than let them die and then revive.

a) Carol’s philosophy is Proactive rather than Rick’s reactive. She punches rather than BE punched (that was her lesson). And the the two “Carol kids” use her lessons effectively in the end, shooting one of the Gov’s group in the forehead. Carol may seem cold, but it is because she has adapted to the current world, where as Rick has hidden behind his tomatoes.

The message of this episode was you cannot reason with evil, you must kill it. Even Michonne, who had given up on looking for and killing the Gov remembers it in the end, and refuses to give into Hershel’s reasoning with the Governor, simply saying, “I’m going to Kill you”–and she does, basically.

ps: I disagree that the Governor’s squeeze shooting him was an act of mercy. She simply wanted a safe place and her group had one. After the Governor coldly shoots her daughter (after leaving her, despite pleas she might not be safe), she realizes that this was ALWAYS about his personal vendetta with Rick. He wants to humiliate and eventually kill everyone who stands in his way, and his nice guy act was simply that, an act.

darkmetal on December 9, 2013 at 8:57 AM

And where did the masses of zombies trying to take down the fence about a day before the attack go to? They conveniently disappeared while the Gov gave his speech, only to then wander out of the woods en masse shortly thereafter.

darkmetal on December 9, 2013 at 9:05 AM

And where did the masses of zombies trying to take down the fence about a day before the attack go to?

As I recall, they took down the fence, and then proceeded to get mowed down by a man and a prepubescent boy with assault rifles.

I did think it was odd that the area was clear when the Governor arrived, but if it was immediately after the initial attack (Michonne and Herschel were burning the bodies when taken by the Governor, so it was the day after that zombie rush), there wouldn’t have been time for more zombies to stockpile.

The Schaef on January 14, 2014 at 9:41 AM

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