Guess who is trying to regulate e-cigarettes?

posted at 4:01 pm on November 23, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Have you seen the e-cigarettes? Smokers have been using them increasingly of late, either to be able to get a fix in places where they are not allowed to light up or as a tool to cut down and hopefully quit the tobacco habit. I’ve seen conflicting stories on how much serious scientific study has gone into the products at this point, but anything generating that much interest (read: money) was bound to attract the attention of the government. The push is on to get the gears in motion and start regulating them. But who is the driving force behind this? I had a couple of guesses, but as this article by Tim Carney points out, it may not be who you’d suspect.

… I’ll give you three guesses which industry is behind the global push to clamp down on e-cigarettes.

If you assumed concerned doctors or “consumer-rights advocates” are the driving force for regulation in Europe and the U.S., then you haven’t been paying attention to way profit and politics interact.

If you said Big Tobacco, close, but no cigar. Philip Morris, R.J. Reynolds, and Lorrillard all jumped in the e-cig game in the past two years. They’re not opposing regulation (the big guys rarely do), but they’re pushing back on the most onerous rules.

Big Pharma is the real foe of e-cigs, and Big Government is their weapon of choice — on both sides of the pond.

This fall, the European Parliament considered new rules regulating e-cigs. E-cigarette manufacturers, of course, lobbied like crazy to block the proposal, and it seems they won. But the drugmakers fought for stricter regulations, for obvious reasons: E-cigarettes compete with prescription drugs that are supposed to help people stop smoking.

GlaxoSmithKline sells Nicorette gum and Johnson & Johnson manufactures nicotine patches. The New York Times reported these companies helped lead “strong opposition” to e-cigarettes.

In the U.S., the Food and Drug Administration is about to announce new proposed rules on e-cigarettes. Big Pharma’s shadow hangs over the rule-making.

I’ll confess, this is something that didn’t seem immediately intuitive to me at first, but it makes sense. Yes, tobacco companies don’t much care for competition, but they don’t need to fight them when they can join them. Marlboro – as well as other major manufacturers – are already releasing their own brands of e-cigs. There’s certainly a point for doctors to be opposed to non-smokers – particularly young people – beginning the use of a product containing something as addictive as nicotine, but for current smokers I can’t imagine they would be too upset about their patients ceasing inhaling all of the other garbage in cigarettes.

But the pharmaceutical industry does seem to have a vested interest. They do a thriving business in nicotine gum and patches, but I can’t imagine them suddenly going into the business of producing electronic cigarettes. It does seem that clamping down on this industry could be seen as being in their financial benefit. And Carney is also correct that the industry spends a very significant amount of money lobbying. Not an open and shut case, but something to think about.

Exit questions: What have you heard or read about the downside to these things, and how much stock would you put in it? Should they be regulated in any fashion beyond restricting their use by minors? Is this an overall good or bad thing?


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Why would one need to study steam? It is flavored steam with a little nicotine mixed on. Lozenges are more dangerous as an entire lozenge can be swallowed.

crosspatch on November 23, 2013 at 4:02 PM

Here are the two primary “problems” with e-cigs:

1. no tobacco tax so the state/fed loses money.
2. nicotine is a powerful anti-depressant resulting in a loss of sales for big-pharma.

We didn’t need so many anti-depressants when many smoked. Now we don’t use nicotine anymore and have a booming anti-depressant market. e-cigs probably cost these people billions.

crosspatch on November 23, 2013 at 4:04 PM

But the pharmaceutical industry does seem to have a vested interest. They do a thriving business in nicotine gum and patches, but I can’t imagine them suddenly going into the business of producing electronic cigarettes.

Why not? Their “break the habit” products also provide nicotine. Rather than provide a patch or a gum, they simply have to provide a different product, and offer it as a substitute rather than as a means of kicking the habit.

Stoic Patriot on November 23, 2013 at 4:05 PM

I use one from time to time, not a 100% replacement (yet) as it “feels” and “tastes” a little different but I like it. I’m sure someone somewhere will find something in it that’s gonna kill me, but common sense tells me it’s a damn sight better for me than cigarettes are.

I never considered big pharma getting a case of the red a** over it, I always figured the traditional government nannies would be the driving force(like always)to take away or regulate everything I like. I guess they still will be after big pharma lobbies the bejesus out of congress.

I’m really really get sick of all this sh*t.

Tim Zank on November 23, 2013 at 4:16 PM

I haven’t smoked in 6 months through the use of e cigs. I think they are great. I still get to feel like I am smoking without all the other side affects. The vapor liquid is made from the same stuff used in IV’s. Why the heck would that be bad for you??? This is typical government crap. I would never use a patch or the gum. I smoked for 40 years and I was able to quit immediately with the e cigs.

BeachBum on November 23, 2013 at 4:19 PM

And Big Pharma will lobby and use government to protect their bottom line.

Free enterprise capitalism has been virtually dead for quite some time now. Let’s quit pretending that it isn’t. Like Socialism, it’s a quaint philosophy that doesn’t really work in practice. The most successful of the lot will always do whatever they can to squelch competition so that they can continue fixing prices and providing goods and services that they have no interest in really improving.

Also, from what I’ve been seeing lately, the more demand goes down for something, the more the price goes up to cover losses. Weird. The only thing I can come up with is that the core market who is still buying is stuck with that supplier or an industry-wide profit/premium which isn’t all that different from one company to the next.

For years and years they’ve been making us afraid of the specters of Hitlerite Nazism or Bolshevik Communism, but who knew that Benito Mussolini’s Corporatist model was the one that would really win out?

Dr. ZhivBlago on November 23, 2013 at 4:21 PM

Should they be regulated in any fashion beyond restricting their use by minors?

Not at all and how about we let parents regulate what their kids do? This automatic knee-jerk expectation of regulation is what’s killing the country.

Wine_N_Dine on November 23, 2013 at 4:24 PM

Bad thing. I was at a bar in an airport sitting next to a guy smoking one of those contraptions, and there is no smoke, no adverse stench like from tobacco, and when someone is trying to quit, this is a better alternative to those toxic patches.

Government needs to stay out of this. There is no second hand smoke the nannies can rail against, and it is an alternative for smokers.

No wonder Big Pharma and the nannies in government want to regulate it, tax it, and then try to shut down the business. Someone is going to be lawyering up soon to sue the e-cigarette makers for some injury or other. Count on it.

P.S. I do not smoke.

simkeith on November 23, 2013 at 4:27 PM

E-cigs. Who cares. Its a fad that will die off soon enough, much like the chocolate cigarettes of the late ’70s.

If you’re gonna smoke, smoke. If you want to quit, quit. Anything in between is just jackin’ off. And I’m not fooled by it.

BobMbx on November 23, 2013 at 4:28 PM

My guess was the Global Warming Mongers. The nicotine gets people all fired up, thus contributing to Global Warming. The solution would be higher taxes of course.

xdwall on November 23, 2013 at 4:30 PM

Big Pharma is the real foe of e-cigs, and Big Government is their weapon of choice — on both sides of the pond.

Yep, I’ve been pointing that out for the past year…

There have been some studies…the FDA did a highly suspect study several years ago…they found some minuscule contaminants in one sample and declared e-cigs unsafe as a result. It was ridiculous. Interestingly, no follow-up studies have been conducted by the FDA since then…odd, unless you think there might be a reason why the FDA wants them regulated without any real, valid research on their part.

Most of the studies I’ve seen have reported positive results:

http://digitaljournal.com/article/362055

Full disclosure…I’m a current e-cig user and they have helped me break a 30+ year smoking addiction. So, I know they are effective. I’ve seen nothing yet that indicates any danger whatsoever.

AUINSC on November 23, 2013 at 4:31 PM

using one now.
f* off government.

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 4:35 PM

Exit questions: What have you heard or read about the downside to these things, and how much stock would you put in it? Should they be regulated in any fashion beyond restricting their use by minors? Is this an overall good or bad thing?

I smoked for 32 years until I got into “vaping” which is it’s own culture. It is awesome, all the different flavors, methods, etc. I do not miss cigarettes at all. I am breathing better, feeling terrific, major improvement to my health. I tried the patches and they also worked, but not for long. With vaping you satisfy the craving for both nicotine as well as the physical act of smoking.

I highly recommend it to anyone who has tried to quit in the past. One of my co-workers smoked for 50 years and hasn’t smoked a cigarette in over a year thanks to vaping.

Key West Reader on November 23, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Big Pharma, huh? They were also the biggest pushers of Obamacare, as well as their drugs. Why doesn’t big pharma keep their greedy lobbying hands off our health care, and our e-smokes. Or our iSmokes (use your iPhone to get your fix). Look, one day when we realize that Big pharma was such a big dealer in Obamacare, one day when conseervatives are in control we are going to push back, and say, you know what, big pharma needs to pay a price, a big price, pay the piper, now!

anotherJoe on November 23, 2013 at 4:38 PM

f* off government.

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 4:35 PM

Apply to 95% of the things the government is into.

Murphy9 on November 23, 2013 at 4:38 PM

Its a fad that will die off soon enough, much like the chocolate cigarettes of the late ’70s.
BobMbx on November 23, 2013 at 4:28 PM

There’s been candy cigs ever since I can remember, first had ‘em in the early 60s. You can buy them online, if not elsewhere. So, not quite a late 70s fad.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 4:39 PM

Apply to 95% of the things the government is into.

Murphy9 on November 23, 2013 at 4:38 PM

thats a given :)

using a 1100Mah 510 battery, 1 lasts me (HEAVY user) all day
http://www.store.e-cigarette-usa.com/eGo-Battery-1100mAh-Automatic-1100mAhegob.htm

with these clearomizers
http://altsmoke.com/accessories/clearomizers/elite-ce3-clearomizer.html

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 4:43 PM

If there’s money from big pharma to their favorite corrupt little toadies in congress, regulation is a sure thing. Someone needs to regulate the regulators.

SteveThomas on November 23, 2013 at 4:45 PM

As of January, I’ll be 4 years cigarette free thanks to ecigs. The first day I picked on up was the last day I smoked.

While big pharma is, of course, opposed to ecigs, the tobacco manufactures weren’t really happy about the lost revenue until they started marketing their own lines. The state and federal tax coffers are the biggest losers in the end. Combined, they collect over 30 billion dollars per year in cigarette taxes. They depend on that money and they won’t take any substantial loss laying down.

Wendya on November 23, 2013 at 4:46 PM

I’m a smoker of ten years, about a pack a day. I used to smoke Newports, with all the goodness of tobacco (tar, formaldehyde, etc) and the fiberglass of menthol. I have tried the patch, gum, cold turkey, Chantix, and one of my officers once tried to bribe me to quit. None of it worked. I was miserable, bitchy, and sick every time I tried to quit. My boyfriend talked me into trying the e-cig this past June, and I wasn’t that enthusiastic about it. I said, meh, I’ll give it a shot. I was not going into the experiment with sudden iron willpower.

But they worked. The brand I tried (Greensmoke) had a high smoke volume so it felt like I was smoking a real cigarette. It tastes good; I particularly like the vanilla, and the vapor I exhale even smells nice. There is no nicotine withdrawal. No willpower needed, at all. I just went down a level of nicotine every month (there are five levels, from strong to zero nicotine) and now I forget to smoke for days at a time. The only time it really occurs to me to smoke is when I’m sitting in traffic. Soon I’ll be able to quit permanently.

I guess, because I can smoke the e-cig anywhere, even discreetly at my desk at work (with my boss’s permission,) that there’s no anxiety about “my next smoke break.” There’s no set time when I have to get up and go smoke. So before I know it it’s lunch time and I didn’t smoke in the morning, then time to leave work and I haven’t been waiting, legs jittering, to get outside for another cigarette, so I’ve hopped in my car and am sitting in traffic before I realize that I haven’t had a puff since lunchtime. It’s seriously not even an effort to say, “no, I’ll put off another puff.” I just forget. And since the nicotine level I’m consuming is decreasing monthly, the nicotine withdrawal isn’t significant enough to MAKE me remember.

The “vapor” in an e-cig is made of vegetable oil, nicotine, glycerol and gly-something (two sugars, basically) so there is no question what I inhale and exhale is FAR better than any cigarette. I’m exhaling water vapor so there’s no secondhand anything.

E-cigarettes are the best thing that ever happened to smokers. I wouldn’t want non-smokers to use them, but everyone I’ve talked to about e-cigs (and being a smoker, I know many other smokers) has had more success with quitting that way than any other.

There is no question that there is one good reason to regulate, which is to keep underage kids from getting addicted to nicotine via vaping. However that’s not what’s motivating the studies and attempts to regulate, because I will bet you any amount of money the vast majority of “vapers” are former smokers. The motivation is the loss in tax revenue from former smokers like me who aren’t paying a dollar, two dollars, up to four dollars in tax revenue PER PACK of cigarettes anymore. I used to pay between $30 and $40 in cigarette taxes per month. Not cigarettes, just the portion of the $120 I paid every month that went straight to the government. Now they don’t have that money for their SCHIP and whatever other boondoggles, and millions of other smokers aren’t paying it anymore, either. That’s a loss of billions every year.

I follow e-cigarette news religiously because this is the ONE product I’ve ever used that really helped me quit. No suffering, no withdrawal, no jitters or dread or nausea or anything. It costs me $100 initially, which is what I paid for cigarettes a month anyway, and then $20 a month for cartomizers (the nicotine cartridges) after that. And since they worked so well for me and I recommend them to every other smoker I know, I see the attempt to regulate and tax e-cigarettes as an attack on every smoker who could use them to quit.

It’s confirmation that all those tax hikes on cigarettes weren’t attempts to help me quit for my own good. If the government was really worried about my health or other smokers’ health, they’d be handing out e-cigs at free clinics like they give free syringes to heroin addicts. No, they just want those sweet, sweet cigarette taxes and they don’t care if we all drop dead from lung cancer tomorrow. Which is not surprising, but still morally absolutely disgusting. They’re trying to tax smokers not just for their addiction, but jacking up the prices on the one product I’ve ever used that helped me to quit absolutely painlessly–effectively PREVENTING them from quitting by making the “treatment” for the addiction less accessible. Which is absolutely inexcusable.

Zoomie on November 23, 2013 at 4:48 PM

But the pharmaceutical industry does seem to have a vested interest. They do a thriving business in nicotine gum and patches, but I can’t imagine them suddenly going into the business of producing electronic cigarettes.

Why not? Their “break the habit” products also provide nicotine. Rather than provide a patch or a gum, they simply have to provide a different product, and offer it as a substitute rather than as a means of kicking the habit.

Stoic Patriot on November 23, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Tobacco companies are better than drug companies at consumer marketing and have brand name recognition for what is a superficially similar product. Are you going to go to the pharmacist to buy cigarettes? Or is it easier when they’re stocked right there at the grocery’s check out lane? The drug companies wouldn’t stand a chance.

Fenris on November 23, 2013 at 4:51 PM

Exit questions: What have you heard or read about the downside to these things, and how much stock would you put in it? Should they be regulated in any fashion beyond restricting their use by minors? Is this an overall good or bad thing?

There is a certain kind of e-cig, I don’t recall the name. It can vaporize tobacco. Some folks have been using them to e-smoke marijuana.

As a smoker an ex-smoker, I can say they are a good thing. Nothing worked for me, ever. With an e-cig, I haven’t had the real thing since September.

E-cigs. Who cares. Its a fad that will die off soon enough, much like the chocolate cigarettes of the late ’70s.

If you’re gonna smoke, smoke. If you want to quit, quit. Anything in between is just jackin’ off. And I’m not fooled by it.

BobMbx on November 23, 2013 at 4:28 PM

Usually I would lay off drivel such as this. But I consider the topic important for those who want to quit.

If it dies off, okay. I think people using them just for flavored steam is kind of silly.

I don’t give fat flamin’ rats rear end what you don’t want to be fooled by. Stay away from them. And off a subject it appears you know nothing about.

Nicotine is a real addiction and some studies say it is as powerful as heroin addiction. Maybe, maybe not. As some one who has wanted, and tried to quit for more than 20 years, I can say anecdotally that it is the only thing I have ever been addicted to.
.
.
.
And it took an E-cig to do it.

cozmo on November 23, 2013 at 4:52 PM

Guess who is trying to regulate e-cigarettes?

Scrumpy?

KOOLAID2 on November 23, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Bad thing. I was at a bar in an airport sitting next to a guy smoking one of those contraptions, and there is no smoke, no adverse stench like from tobacco, and when someone is trying to quit, this is a better alternative to those toxic patches.

The toxin in the patches is the same one that’s in the e-cigs…nicotine.

Why would one be worse than the other?

My brother in law quit smoking and is now addicted to these things. I’m sure they are probably better than smoking, but I’m not sure we know how much better.

JannyMae on November 23, 2013 at 5:05 PM

Zoomie on November 23, 2013 at 4:48 PM

Very well written and I wholeheartedly agree.

I tried them when they a couple of years ago. Not much vapor and they didn’t really taste like a cigarette.

The one’s out now are much more powerful and some liquids, while not tasting like a Winston, come close enough.

If the tobacco companies wanted to stop losing smokers, they would create liquids that taste like their brand. Heck, their profits might increase while lowering their prices if the governments were kept out.

Every body wins except the government and big pharma and the leeches.

cozmo on November 23, 2013 at 5:06 PM

2 cents worth from an MD (family doc):

Nicotine is incredibly addictive, as others have pointed out, but not really harmful in and of itself. The problem with nicotine is that it rides along with a host of really horrid chemicals that are also found in tobacco, that lead to cancer, heart disease, lung disease, and many other problems. So smokers crave nicotine, but also get all the bad stuff. The e-cigs are a way to divorce the nicotine addition from the really harmful things that accompany it.

From my standpoint, I think they are a great alternative to actual tobacco abuse. I would never recommend that someone who didn’t already smoke use them, as there’s no reason to get hooked on the nicotine to begin with. Perhaps someday we will discover some risk in using the things, but that risk would certainly pale next to the known deadly nature of tobacco.

I have some really hard-core smokers in my practice who have been able to quit with these things, after al else had failed. I’m all for them if they can keep people away from tobacco.

FuzzyLogic on November 23, 2013 at 5:07 PM

I smoked for 40 years and I was able to quit immediately with the e cigs.

BeachBum on November 23, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Dude, you haven’t actually quit. You’ve just got a new delivery system for your nicotine.

GWB on November 23, 2013 at 5:16 PM

I have some really hard-core smokers in my practice who have been able to quit with these things, after al else had failed. I’m all for them if they can keep people away from tobacco.

FuzzyLogic on November 23, 2013 at 5:07 PM

Thank you for that. I’ve read that same thing from quite a number of MDs. Even if people don’t eventually quit with the e-cigs, they are still much better off than smoking tobacco. Harm reduction is the name of the game for most smokers.

AUINSC on November 23, 2013 at 5:17 PM

Dude, you haven’t actually quit. You’ve just got a new delivery system for your nicotine.

GWB on November 23, 2013 at 5:16 PM

Whatever, except it’s a new delivery system that isn’t known to be deadly.

AUINSC on November 23, 2013 at 5:21 PM

Regulate, tax, repeat. Big Government is out of control.

MT on November 23, 2013 at 5:23 PM

GWB on November 23, 2013 at 5:16 PM

Whatever, I’m off the cigarettes. My main reason for wanting to get off them was the price, I can’t afford them anymore but I love smoking, always have. I’m over 60 so the damage is already done. Having stopped for 6 months I feel alot better and my breathing and energy are much improved. At my age there isn’t much left to enjoy so these ecigs give me some small pleasure.

BeachBum on November 23, 2013 at 5:23 PM

I am one of the few that nicotine helps with neuropathy, and I have spinal disc injuries and hypersensitive and hyperactive nerves (basically everything from navel on down generates a pain signal and then amplifies it) so quitting smoking has plagued me.
the increase in pain makes me pass out.
these were a solution, far from perfect but I seldom have an actual swisher sweet cigarette (my choice of smokes) anymore.

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 5:24 PM

I have heard some people use the patch for a mood elevator. Maybe e-cigs too? I don’t see where that would be bad now that the nicotine is separated from the tobacco, right?

PattyJ on November 23, 2013 at 5:25 PM

They stopped me from 30 years of smoking.There is less nicotine in one than the gum or patches.

docflash on November 23, 2013 at 5:32 PM

“Oh, you’re still consuming nicotine so you really haven’t quit.” It’s worth repeating that since I’m not smoking a cigarette, I am NOT consuming:

Acetone – found in nail polish remover
Acetic Acid – an ingredient in hair dye
Ammonia – a common household cleaner
Arsenic – used in rat poison
Benzene – found in rubber cement
Butane – used in lighter fluid
Cadmium – active component in battery acid
Carbon Monoxide – released in car exhaust fumes
Formaldehyde – embalming fluid
Hexamine – found in barbecue lighter fluid
Lead – used in batteries
Naphthalene – an ingredient in moth balls
Methanol – a main component in rocket fuel
Nicotine – used as insecticide
Tar – material for paving roads
Toluene – used to manufacture paint

All of which ARE found in cigarettes. So I don’t get the bullshit argument that e-cigarettes are somehow as dangerous or no different from smoking a real cigarette when they are far cheaper and self-evidently a better option than cigarettes. Yeah, I’m consuming nicotine. ONLY nicotine. Like every other vaper will tell you, I breathe better, I got my sense of taste and smell back (I can smell real cigs for the first time in years, and yech) and I’m nowhere near as likely to get lung cancer. Win win win win.

Here’s another exit question–why do some non-smokers or current cigarette smokers reflexively denounce e-cigarettes? What danger do they pose? Even if e-cigarettes become MORE widespread than real cigarettes, isn’t that still a net gain? Less people literally setting their money on fire, fewer lung cancer patients, less secondhand smoke…where is the down side, exactly?

Zoomie on November 23, 2013 at 5:33 PM

2 cents worth from an MD (family doc):

Nicotine is incredibly addictive, as others have pointed out, but not really harmful in and of itself.

FuzzyLogic on November 23, 2013 at 5:07 PM

Huh? You’re a doc? And you don’t know nicotine is a lethal poison? It’s even been used as a murder weapon.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 5:34 PM

Here are the two primary “problems” with e-cigs:

1. no tobacco tax so the state/fed loses money.
2. nicotine is a powerful anti-depressant resulting in a loss of sales for big-pharma.

We didn’t need so many anti-depressants when many smoked. Now we don’t use nicotine anymore and have a booming anti-depressant market. e-cigs probably cost these people billions.

crosspatch on November 23, 2013 at 4:04 PM

.
crosspatch has a ‘handle’ on it.

Nothing more needs saying.

listens2glenn on November 23, 2013 at 5:34 PM

Zoomie on November 23, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Well said. I don’t care what anyone says about vaping – it works for me. I cannot stand the smell of cigarette smoke anymore, my sense of taste and smell has returned, my sinuses have improved and other health issues have resolved.

Wish I had enough $ to start my own shop, but if I did I’m sure Obama would find a way to take that away from me.

Key West Reader on November 23, 2013 at 5:40 PM

PattyJ on November 23, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Oh man, the dreams you get from the patch…

And Wellbutrin, those dreams are even wilder. Along with that other pill used to quit.

cozmo on November 23, 2013 at 5:41 PM

@cozmo–that’s why I had to stop the patch, I had crazy dreams all night every night and woke up feeling like I hadn’t slept at all. And the WORST nightmares, full color realistic to the point that I was confused when I woke up and called home to make sure everything was okay. No, thanks.

Zoomie on November 23, 2013 at 5:43 PM

@cozmo–that’s why I had to stop the patch, I had crazy dreams all night every night and woke up feeling like I hadn’t slept at all. And the WORST nightmares, full color realistic to the point that I was confused when I woke up and called home to make sure everything was okay. No, thanks.

Zoomie on November 23, 2013 at 5:43 PM

ok OT but…I have always dreamed in color, is that not normal?

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 5:45 PM

Huh? You’re a doc? And you don’t know nicotine is a lethal poison? It’s even been used as a murder weapon.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 5:34 PM

So has water.

BacaDog on November 23, 2013 at 5:47 PM

Huh? You’re a doc? And you don’t know nicotine is a lethal poison? It’s even been used as a murder weapon.
whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 5:34 PM

So has water.
BacaDog on November 23, 2013 at 5:47 PM

But then again, there’s not a whole lotta people who intentionally intake gallons of water into their lungs everyday.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 5:51 PM

So has water.

BacaDog on November 23, 2013 at 5:47 PM

“MAN OVERBOARDED!!!

Shy Guy on November 23, 2013 at 5:51 PM

But then again, there’s not a whole lotta people who intentionally intake gallons of water into their lungs everyday.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 5:51 PM

My point is that anything can kill you if used as unintended.

Sure, nicotine is a poison in liquid form. Really bad stuff.

In vapor form from an ecigarette, not so much.

BacaDog on November 23, 2013 at 5:54 PM

No, thanks.

Zoomie on November 23, 2013 at 5:43 PM

I am just the opposite.

I enjoyed the dreams.

Except the occasional nightmare.

cozmo on November 23, 2013 at 5:57 PM

BeachBum on November 23, 2013 at 5:23 PM

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad you’re healthier. But you haven’t quit the addiction. I think e-cigs aren’t all that and a bag of chips, but they *are* better than the alternative for a lot of people, and I think you should definitely have the choice.

GWB on November 23, 2013 at 6:00 PM

GWB on November 23, 2013 at 6:00 PM

Maybe not, but again anecdotally, I can attest that my nicotine intake has been cut in half. When this bottle runs out, I will step down to liquid with 8-10 mg of nicotine. Then again to 4mgs. After that, zero nicotine and put the E-cig back in it’s box.

cozmo on November 23, 2013 at 6:08 PM

My point is that anything can kill you if used as unintended.
BacaDog on November 23, 2013 at 5:54 PM

And my counterpoint was that water is not a lethal poison that people intentionally intake into their bodies – nicotine is. So it’s Apples V. Oranges. Normal intake water is not only harmless, but essential to living. There is no normal intake for nicotine.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 6:09 PM

Big Pharma, huh? They were also the biggest pushers of Obamacare, as well as their drugs.

anotherJoe on November 23, 2013 at 4:38 PM

Sure, and what does that tell you? It’s all a scam to separate our money from us. America has turned into one big clip joint replete with bouncers.

Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Biden, Ayers, et al love you.

CEOs and bankers love the spirit of free enterprise competition and just love to see folks getting jobs.

Walk up and put that bill in the that sweet thang’s G-string, Baby. She really likes you.

Can’t you just feeeel the love?

Dr. ZhivBlago on November 23, 2013 at 6:17 PM

Sorry, but the non-smokers don’t get it and seemingly have not done the research on e-cigs or vaping. I smoked a pack to 1.5 packs per day for 23 years. Haven’t touched a cig in four months. You choose your level of nicotine or if you like, none at all. I’m down to 3mgs of nicotine per 1.6mls of e-juice. Which means I am absorbing about 4-5 mgs of nicotine per day. I feel great. I have a million times more energy, I can taste and smell again and I don’t smell like a nasty ashtray.

Also, non-smokers have to realize that we former smokers have to do something with out hands. We have a routine. We smoke after we eat, we smoke while we drink alcohol (which some non-smokers do as well) and we smoke when we drive, blah, blah, blah.

A vaporizer gives you what the patch, chantix and gum cannot–it gives you the FEELING that you are still a smoker. Your habit of drinking coffee in the morning is the same. I’ve tried to quit in the past, but as soon as I started having a few drinks, I’d inevitably start smoking again. My wife still smokes and she can smoke around me and I have ZERO craving for an analog cigarette. Also, this is no fad. We have three e-cig stores in our town now. They are popping up everywhere. This isn’t going away.

I make my own e-liquid and save even more money. There are tons of DIY websites on how to mix your own flavors. It’s pretty simple. I’m vaping homemade cherry cola right now.

robblefarian on November 23, 2013 at 6:20 PM

Failure to “drain the swamp” as it were.

KMC1 on November 23, 2013 at 6:27 PM

Such a tangled web… The nanny states hate smokers and get so self righteous and pompous about it, but at the same time they depend on the smokers to fund their pet nanny programs because it is so easy to slap taxes on a pack of cigarettes. They probably want to try and figure out a way to regulate e-cigs as a “medical device” and then tax them like cigarettes. Big pharma probably has drugs in the works, to “pop a pill to quit” which isn’t really needed if e-cigs are so effective. (Wasn’t it wellbutrin or some antidepressant that was touted to help smokers quit?) So they stand to lose money too. It is a partnership from hell, and once again the smokers are the ones who will pay the price.

Boudica on November 23, 2013 at 6:42 PM

robblefarian on November 23, 2013 at 6:20 PM

I totally agree about the smoking routine. I quit over 10 years ago, and there are times when I really want a cigarette, not for the nicotine, but for the “feel”–the physical aspect of smoking–especially if I have a couple drinks or if I am really stressed. I haven’t caved yet, but it’s nice to know e-cigs are there if I fall off the wagon.

Boudica on November 23, 2013 at 6:46 PM

My son, daughter, and son-in-law have all stopped smoking with the help of e-cigarettes and/or “vaping”. They’ve most likely extended their lives by at least a couple of decades apiece.

Whatever downside there may be to these, it can’t possibly be enough to erase the good they do.

RegularJoe on November 23, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Unless you have ever smoked you don’t know how strong the addiction is. If ‘smoking e cigs’ can help a person to cut back or quit…great
Smoking cigarettes are deadly and shorten lives..it’s not the nicotine, it’s the additives put into cigarettes that can kill you. Nicotine is actually not bad for you.

Maybe big government will go after marijuana, that’s where the taxes are. Give it a year or 2…

Redford on November 23, 2013 at 7:22 PM

Maybe these cigs would help with obesity too. I still say the reason so many people are fat is that no one smokes any more.

PattyJ on November 23, 2013 at 7:35 PM

Nicotine is actually not bad for you.
Redford on November 23, 2013 at 7:22 PM

Oy.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 7:37 PM

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 7:37 PM

You are right sweetheart. All of your harping should be taken into account 0 wise one.

Everybody who has used an E-cig to stop smoking is a fool They should listen to your words of wisdom and go back to the real thing.

Geesh, some people’s kids…

cozmo on November 23, 2013 at 7:45 PM

You are right sweetheart. All of your harping should be taken into account 0 wise one.
cozmo on November 23, 2013 at 7:45 PM

Thank you, honey. Getting your giblets all in an uproar upon finding out that nicotine is a poison is too bad, but some folks were actually awake during the first day of Chem class in Jr High.
You’re welcome for the education, no charge.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 7:51 PM

I’ve been using one since May. It costs me about 60 cents a day to smoke. The government misses the $9.40 in taxes I’m sure and will step up to the regulation plate to get their perceived share.

BL@KBIRD on November 23, 2013 at 7:53 PM

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 7:51 PM

My my aren’t we the smug holier than though one. You must be perfect. Slim and in shape too. Don’t even drink coffee I bet. We really should admire your awesomeness.

BeachBum on November 23, 2013 at 7:55 PM

My my aren’t we the smug holier than though one.
BeachBum on November 23, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Not holier, though I go plead guilty to being more informed than some on the question of nicotine being toxic. So get mad if you want, sue me, whatever – doesn’t change chemistry one whit.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 8:12 PM

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Double cheeseburgers are toxic too, if you eat enough of them and obesity kills too. So, I’m sure you’re a vegan and slim as a rail.

BeachBum on November 23, 2013 at 8:22 PM

Thank you, honey. Getting your giblets all in an uproar upon finding out that nicotine is a poison is too bad, but some folks were actually awake during the first day of Chem class in Jr High.
You’re welcome for the education, no charge.

whatcat

Did they teach you that oxygen is a poison on that first day of jr high chem class? How about iron? Magnesium? All of these are toxic in high amounts. Most prisons use potassium for part of the lethal injection cocktail, but we need that to live. Vitamins A, D, E, and K can all kill in high amounts (useless trivia – consuming polar bear liver will grant you a very painful death from vitamin A poisoning).

Yes, nicotine is lethal if I give you enough of it. So is aspirin, acetaminophen, and virtually every other prescription and OTC medication. You are missing the point. The wisest choice for people is to never touch nicotine in any form. But for those who smoke, there is little doubt that an e-cig is safer than tobacco. As the wise man said, it’s not the same ballpark, it’s not the same league, it’s not even the same bleeping sport. Ideally, smokers can use the e-cigs to step down to using nothing at all. For those who can’t give up the e-cig habit, it’s still better than smoking.

Google “benzopyrenes”. Cigarettes have them. E-cigs don’t.

FuzzyLogic on November 23, 2013 at 8:23 PM

Did they teach you that oxygen is a poison on that first day of jr high chem class? How about iron? Magnesium? All of these are toxic in high amounts.
FuzzyLogic on November 23, 2013 at 8:23 PM

So is birthday cake. Also, apples and oranges. But it seems you’re missing the absurdity of making such comparisons. Ah, well….

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 8:29 PM

I smoked for 32 years until I got into “vaping” which is it’s own culture. It is awesome, all the different flavors, methods, etc.

Key West Reader on November 23, 2013 at 4:37 PM

…for one thing, there are “e-cigarettes”, and then there are “e-cigarettes”.

There are the ones like we see Steve Dorff and Jenny McCarthy vaping in commercials — which look like “analog” (read: burning tobacco) cigarettes — and then there is the type of vaping one can get into when you really fall down the rabbit hole…mods, tanks, bottom coil, rebuildables, mechs, variables, etc. As quoted, it is it’s own culture.

For a lot of folks, vaping is not just a way of getting out from under tobacco’s thumb…it’s also a hobby, and a damned interesting one, if one is so inclined.

That said, for someone considering quitting, there are some simple things to consider:

1) At some point in one’s addiction, taste was a factor…and tobacco comes in two basic flavors: burnt tobacco and burnt tobacco with menthol.

2) Stop for a second and consider that word: burnt. One is inhaling smoke…SMOKE…the stuff we hope makes it up the chimney…into our rather sensitive lungs.

3) As many have already pointed out, if it were ONLY smoke, it would be bad enough (carbon monoxide, etc.)…but add to that the other chemicals in the mass-produced tobacco product cocktail…a heady mix.

4) Tobacco is a big cash cow for federal, state and local governments. Every excise tax dollar the government doesn’t get to squander is a dollar you can spend on beer…and, if you homebrew, you can stick it to The Man a second time.

Now consider:

1) Vaping means that one is cooking up what is referred to in the vaping community as “e-liquid” (“juice”)…applying heat and creating steam. So, one is not burning anything.

2) “Juice” comes in as many different flavors as you can imagine, from watermelon, berry, various sorts of pastry, various sorts of fruits, various sorts of drinks and cocktails…the ONLY flavor I’ve found that can’t be properly recreated is the taste of burning tobacco (the “tobacco” flavors I’ve found have all been variations on a theme of maple syrup)…the variety only limited by the ingenuity of the many juice makers out there.

3) By and large, the ingredients of this e-liquid rendered into vapor (steam) are some sort of suspension fluid (either the base suspension liquid used in cough syrup or a vegetable analog of same), nicotine, and flavoring, sometimes with a little alcohol.

4) The nicotine content of the “juice” you order can be set up to order…meaning that you can go from what you’re used to intaking down in increments down to zero…no-nicotine at all, so you’re just vaping flavor.

Now…as folks are saying, this stuff ISN’T regulated…while vaping itself has been regulated (in ways paralleling the ways smokers are regulated), the “juice” isn’t. You can buy the basic ingredients and make up a batch yourself…and vape away happily.

…and, aside from the loss of revenue, therein lays the rub: the control-freaks haven’t got their hooks into it.

Regulation of societal and personal habits is a two-edged sword. One the one hand, we see the advertised justification…to keep things clean and safe. No snake oil or nuclear waste in the e-juice. But, the other edge that comes into play on the backhand is that we are doing our own thing, without the leave of our “betters”…and that just goes right up the noses of those self-appointed “betters”….

…so, you’ve got a bunch of anarchistic home-brewing vapers building their own atomizers, cartomizers, tanks and the electrical delivery systems to heat up the juice…all happily swapping technique, juice recipes, and the like…and Uncle Sugar (and his prissy cousin in the EU) haven’t got a say in how folks are being happy…which must really singe his whiskers.

Myself, I NEVER ONCE smoked a cigarette. Not a single one. Not in 58 years, not in a career in the military, not in two separate “wedding nights”…not a one. My parents smoked, and the stink and coughing and the long car rides with them puffing away served to put me off at an early age. I’ve tried to get into pipe smoking, but pipes aren’t so much for smoking as for fiddling with…fill, tamp, light JUST SO, tamp, suck, then figure out why it tastes like a smoldering tube sock. I’ve also enjoyed cigars…but, after the yuppies got into stogies, good cigars shot up to $15 apiece at least…and who can afford that.

…and I vape. The Blu/Green Smoke/South Beach stuff was weak and I didn’t have a cigarette/finger fiddle habit to break, so I explored the more interesting world of mods/tanks/juices, and have been having a great time….

…two things to note in order to make this an honest post:

1) I don’t inhale. I was a cigar man, and inhaling seems unnatural to me. You can inhale, and take whole lungs-full of green tea or guava flavored steam in, but I don’t. That’s just me.

2) I don’t use nicotine. Don’t need it. If I want a jolt, I have a cup of coffee, and I’ve been cutting down on caffeine, as well.

One cavaet, as well: I’m a diabetic. I’ve read in some places that nicotine raises blood sugar, in others that it doesn’t…but, if it does, and you’re a diabetic like me, get off the tobacco NOW.

Also, I haven’t found anything conclusive about the health effects of the ingredients in the many tasty flavorings on diabetes. They don’t divulge their recipes (as you’d expect) and generally list things as “natural and artificial flavorings”, like breakfast cereal. This is, in my opinion, the ONLY down-side of non-regulation.

Are there health risks? Sure. The only way that I can see to safely ingest nicotine (or ingest alcohol or parachute or skateboard or drive a car or rewire a wall socket) is NOT TO DO IT. In inaction there is safety…but not a lot of savor.

…so, if you’re currently still sucking on burning, chemically-adulterated floor-sweepings, and need your nicotine fix, there’s little excuse left. Vape. It tastes better, has GOT to be better than taking smoke into your lungs, smells better (rather like perfume, in some cases), and is ultimately cheaper. With a quick internet search and a credit card, one can get started for about the cost of a carton of smokes…and then only pay for juice.

…and if that isn’t enough, consider: the FDA still hasn’t stuck their nose in…it’s still fairly free. Revel in freedom, especially when it’s untaxed.

Puritan1648 on November 23, 2013 at 8:30 PM

KA2 would I try to regulate e-cigs dude? lol ;)

I have been a pack a day smoker for many many years, I quit cigarettes 2 months ago and haven’t looked back! I smoke an e-cig now and also am tapering off the nicotine in them, best thing I ever did.

I do not cough and I feel great!

I tried the patches the gum and both irritated me esp the patch, did chantix, wooo scary stuff that!!

So, here I am an avid e-cig puffer now and much better for it!

Scrumpy on November 23, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Nicotine is not only not bad for you, it’s good for you. E-cigarettes may be the best thing to have happened to humanity since beer.
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/06/nicotine

ex_machina on November 23, 2013 at 8:32 PM

ex_machina on November 23, 2013 at 8:32 PM

Cool thanks for the weblinky!! :)

Scrumpy on November 23, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Puritan1648 on November 23, 2013 at 8:30 PM

Um, you left out E-joint…

Scrumpy on November 23, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Wondered when you were gonna’ show up in this one.

cozmo on November 23, 2013 at 8:41 PM

FuzzyLogic on November 23, 2013 at 8:23 PM

By the way, I’m a smoker myself. My point was not about smoking or delivery systems, but rather on the posited notion that nicotine was harmless. As far as I’m concerned it’s “Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em” and think banning smoking (in most cases) is stupid. Especially in places like bars.

whatcat on November 23, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Puritan1648 on November 23, 2013 at 8:30 PM

I’ve considered looking into drip tips and volt mods but I also like the simplicity of a simpler system.
the ce3 clearomizers seem to be the perfect mix for me, the saturation of a tank style (flavor) yet they don’t burn up in 2 days like all the dse901 or joyce/501 style tank style atomizers did.
have been thinking about mixing my own, I tend to like the chocolate and blackberry and blueberry flavors.
I tend to like the propylene glycol based more, for some reason the vegetable glycerin bases tend to burn throat for me.

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 9:41 PM

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 9:41 PM

I’ve switched to mini protanks and kanger evods. I greatly prefer the bottom coils to the clearomizers. I get the bottom coils for @ $2.00 apiece.

I started mixing my own last month. Easy peasy. ecigexpress.com has all the DIY stuff you need. I get a 50/50 blend of PG/VG at 3mgs of nicotine and then add the flavors. It will save you a ton of money. I was paying $6.60 (with tax) for 10mls of juice from a brick and mortar store. Now I’m paying @ 50 cents a batch.

Congrats on quitting the analogs!

robblefarian on November 23, 2013 at 9:55 PM

been using ecig for about 2 years or just under :)
I have been considering rebuildable tanks but, these ce3 are cheap. get 5 and a new syringe for 9$. the system as a whole (even with the heavier 1100 battery) is easy for me to handle. I have fibromyalgia with all its associated shakes and tremors (hence the easy to handle clarifier) so not sure I could rebuild but am willing to try at least once :)
one good thing about the ce3 is I can fill a few and store and I have never had one drop of leakage, so I can take a few when I leave house and not need to worry about anything.

have been checking some diy prices for last few days and it looks like I could get few months worth of pg and vg pretty cheap, just SO MANY flavors I want to experiment with :)
I often buy the buy 4 get one free deal of 10ml stuff from one vendor that has good prices, get to try stuff out that way.
the real beauty is, there are option. tons of them. not only in hardware but also in the juices.

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 10:28 PM

also the ce3 is a bottom coil too, and they (bottom coil) do work so much better
http://altsmoke.com/accessories/clearomizers/elite-ce3-clearomizer.html
CE3 Cartomizer – Elite Bottom Coil Cartomizer Pack

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 10:32 PM

Anyone could have seen this coming.
The more peeps switch to vaping, the less
peeps pay the “sin” taxes for tobacco.
Governments, at all levels, love their
“sin taxes.”
Nanny-State politicians LOVE smokers and
people who drink beer, wine, and spirits.
After all, they are easy targets for higher
“sin” taxes.

They say that they want to get people
to stop smoking, but now that there is a way
for people to stop smoking they realize that
they need to make up the revenue.

Their hypocrisy is laughable.

Enjoy free vaping while you can.

I typed that while I took a vape on my ProVari…

shorebird on November 23, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Scrumpy on November 23, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Me, too.

tngmv on November 23, 2013 at 11:36 PM

I didn’t read the article, but my guess would be the US Gubmint wants to put a little black box on every e-cigarette and record how many drags you take.

Do I win?

WryTrvllr on November 23, 2013 at 11:59 PM

I was amazed at how easy it was to give up the cigarettes after trying out e-cigs. I’ve been smoke free for over 4 years now and never looked back after trying the e-cig. What finally got me to quit was a tax bill I got from the state of Indiana for sales taxes I owed because I ordered my cigarettes online from an outlet owned by the Indians. It was a 1200.00 bill and after I paid that I vowed never to smoke another analog cigarette. I felt so much better almost immediately and it was so nice not to have to go outside whenever I wanted to smoke. Now I use a “mod” and make my own nicotine free juices. Yes, I still enjoy the hobby and love experimenting with different flavors. I would absolutely recommend it to anyone thinking of quitting!

Conservalicious on November 24, 2013 at 12:01 AM

After smoking for 45 years, I used Chantix to quit starting in mid-August. The e-cig was helpful because it kept me from reaching for the real thing during the first couple of weeks. I eventually switched to the gum for cravings because I was concerned that inhaling the e-cig vapor was reinforcing the link to smoking. I’ve tapered off the gum and I keep an e-cig around in case I get an especially strong craving, which is becoming rarer and rarer.

My 21-year-old daughter used e-cigs to quit a social smoking habit. E-cigs seem to work for some and not for others. (By the way, Chantix is pricey. E-cigs may be a less expensive alternative.)

We didn’t need so many anti-depressants when many smoked. Now we don’t use nicotine anymore and have a booming anti-depressant market. e-cigs probably cost these people billions.

crosspatch on November 23, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Good point! The link between smoking and emotional states was more challenging for me to deal with than the nicotine withdrawal. I’m happy to say that I managed to do it without taking anti-depressants but I did experience a few blue days. ;)

jix on November 24, 2013 at 2:09 AM

Actually I would think Big Pharma would be supportive of E-Cigs. It would help keep up demand of their products…

Skywise on November 24, 2013 at 2:47 AM

I didn’t read the article, but my guess would be the US Gubmint wants to put a little black box on every e-cigarette and record how many drags you take.

Do I win?

WryTrvllr on November 23, 2013 at 11:59 PM

The EPA wants to implant a black box into every American’s trachea so that they can monitor and tax what you are pulling into your lungs. It will also track the volume of CO2 that you exhale, for which you will be taxed as well.

All hail Obama.

Murphy9 on November 24, 2013 at 6:32 AM

You are missing the point. The wisest choice for people is to never touch nicotine in any form.

FuzzyLogic on November 23, 2013 at 8:23 PM

Actually that was her exact point.

GWB on November 24, 2013 at 7:34 AM

I would oppose any regulation, period. I dont care if ‘minors’ get one. Sowhat. They get everything else with arbitrary rules and age limits put on it.

Stop it.

TX-96 on November 24, 2013 at 7:43 AM

Springfield, MO. and many other cities banned them in all the same places as real cigarettes to preempt and reasonable compromise.

Kaptain Amerika on November 24, 2013 at 8:54 AM

Exit questions: What have you heard or read about the downside to these things, and how much stock would you put in it?

Idiots equating propylglycol to antifreeze. Like the typical ‘rat with the ‘Bush lied, people died’ shit.

Equating propyl glycol to ethyl glycol is roughly like equating ethanol to methanol. Or H2O to H2O2.

Lanceman on November 24, 2013 at 10:20 AM

My brother and I started our own brand, AquaCig (aquacig.com). It was an amazing amount of work – a whole year. Happy to give discounts to fellow HotAir commenters if there is interest!

ebrawer on November 24, 2013 at 12:23 PM

I’ve been off the analogs (tobacco cigarettes) for over a year using ecigs. My lungs and sinuses have cleared, the morning cough is gone, my taste buds are back, etc. I tried the patches, gum, lozenges, etc. None of them worked.

These do, so naturally the government wants to mess it up.

Cowboy is a compliment on November 24, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Ok got a coupon setup for my fellow HotAir commenters. Use code HOTAIR at AquaCig and you have 10% on top of the crazy good prices!

ebrawer on November 24, 2013 at 4:30 PM

dmacleo on November 23, 2013 at 9:41 PM

robblefarian on November 23, 2013 at 9:55 PM

…there’re lots and lots of ways of doing the same thing…there’s a wealth of choice in vaping…find what you like, what works for you, and keep an eye out to see what comes next. Products and options multiply daily.

…and that is the point: governments, however well-intentioned and benign, operate not (as you would expect and our founders posited) from mutual consent. They operate today by coercion. Look no further than the “individual mandate” in the new supposed healthcare law. Give the government (and the governing class) it’s head,and soon we’ll all be free to operate within the strictly limited boundaries of what they deem, under the guise of science and public health policy, to impose upon us.

Now, we have options. Moves to limit options should be the duty of every citizen.

A minority of people today smoke in this country, and even fewer vape. So, the mass of people can easily dismiss the shrivelling options of their neighbors. “It ain’t my ox being gored”, is the mindset. Such a mindset is infamous.

…and on a personal note: as for the “you shouldn’t smoke/vape/drink/whatever anyway” crowd, I’m all for digging into the personal lives of these famous abstainers and find where their personal “ox” is stabled…and begin limiting THEIR options, “regulating” their lives “for their own good”.

As for myself, I plan to happily vape away, hopefully offending only those who worry so about what I do when they’re not looking….

Puritan1648 on November 24, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Ok got a coupon setup for my fellow HotAir commenters. Use code HOTAIR at AquaCig and you have 10% on top of the crazy good prices!

ebrawer on November 24, 2013 at 4:30 PM

not my style but I’ll bookmark and point people to you.
I won’t tell them this coupon of course, just used last msg to quote :)

dmacleo on November 24, 2013 at 6:00 PM

Thanks dmacleo!

ebrawer on November 25, 2013 at 12:10 PM

I switched over to e-cigs completely and haven’t had a real cigarette in over 4 months. They don’t really save me much money, but I’m no longer inhaling all the nastiness that comes with cigs, don’t reek of smoke, and can do it almost anywhere. Easy change for me, all in all.

Yes, I’m still a nicotine addict, but it’s still a significant, positive change (affirmed by my cancer doctor sister).

Dodd on November 25, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Hi dmacleo. I tried your live chat and it switched to sending an email a couple of days ago with some questions about your products. I don’t know if it got through?

Cowboy is a compliment on November 25, 2013 at 7:11 PM