Panic: Infighting starts as Obamacare supporters beg Dems not to go full Landrieu

posted at 9:21 pm on November 13, 2013 by Mary Katharine Ham

You can find nary a Democrat to speak on the record defending Obamacare’s abysmal enrollment numbers, but reporters seem to be able to find plenty who will talk about each other and the president’s betrayal of his promise.

“Brewing revolt”:

Obama’s fellow Democrats have started to lose faith, and time is of the essence: The House will vote Friday on a GOP bill that would allow insurance companies to revive scrapped health insurance policies. Unless Democrats are certain that a remedy is on the way, many will be inclined to vote “yes.”

Even progressive Democrats and staunch allies of leadership had strong words for the White House officials dispatched to meet with House Democrats on Wednesday morning, according to sources in the room — and the White House is sure to hear another dose of angst Thursday, when aides meet with Senate Democrats.

“We’ve got a problem, and we gotta fix it, and we’re looking for what the White House response is gonna be,” said Rep. Peter Welch, D-Vt., who still hasn’t decided how he will vote on the bill sponsored by Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton, R-Mich.

“I think in diplomatic terms we had a frank discussion,” said Rep. Jim Costa, D-Calif. “I think there was a lot of frustration and, in some cases, anger vented towards the White House for their continued ham-fisted approach. It’s not just their credibility that’s on the line, but it’s our credibility.”

“Why can’t we call people who know how to do these things, who do it for corporate America, and say, ‘We have a website, fix it?’” asked Rep. José E. Serrano, D-N.Y. “Maybe I’m being simplistic, but can’t we call Bill Gates up and say, ‘Take care of this?’ Or go to a college dorm and say, ‘You guys, you invented Yahoo, can you take care of this?’”

And that Nov. 30 deadline?

“Don’t come here telling us it will be fixed by Nov. 30,” Serrano said.

The few remaining Democrats in the House willing to speak out against an “If you like your plan, you can keep it” bill are stuck trying to explain how keeping the president’s promise by passing extremely popular legislation in the face of plummeting poll numbers is a bad idea while the most vulnerable Democrat in the Senate leads the charge on a similar bill:

At a post-caucus news conference, House Democratic Caucus Vice Chairman Joseph Crowley, D-N.Y., told reporters that leaders would be spending the week educating caucus members about how the Upton bill is just another Republican tool to chip away at the health care law’s foundation.

“My colleagues … recognize the sacrifices that were made by our caucus in the passage of this law,” Crowley added. “Democrats in our caucus were responsible for the passage of this bill … and we took a great deal of heat for it, but understanding, in the end, that what were were doing was in the best interest of the country.

“They are committed to seeing this bill through,” Crowley said.

There are a few ways caucus members on the fence could be won over to vote “no” on the Upton bill in addition to lobbying by leaders, who have not yet decided whether to launch a formal whip operation against the legislation.

Megan McArdle puts Crowley’s and the White House’s challenge in perspective as they try to convince vulnerable politicians to hold on yet again for this law:

But they’re so desperate to get on record as trying to help people out of the mess that is Obamacare that they’re willing to vote for any version of the bill they all roundly rejected in 2010, when it could have solved the problem. One option Democrat leadership might try to offer them:

Kaptur said that Democrats were also discussing with Simas what other vehicles could be used to let caucus members express their frustration without having to vote “yes” on Upton’s legislation. One likely option is a Democratic motion to recommit that would fail on the House floor but would at least put members on the record as supporting some sort of remedy for Americans who have lost their preferred insurance plans.

Costa, who said he was “seriously looking at” voting for the Upton bill, was unmoved by the option of a motion to recommit.

“I think an MTR means little,” he said. “The fact is, members want to be able to come back to their constituents and say, ‘I’ve tried to do everything I possibly can to allow you to keep your existing policies if that’s what you choose.’ I think it was said repeatedly in the caucus just a moment ago, it’s a matter of keeping one’s word.”

Sen. Tom Harkin may qualify for most clueless soundbite of the day, and that’s saying something:

Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Chairman Tom Harkin (D-IA) urged Democrats not to retreat from Obamacare because the “new value system” of making sure consumers are provided a basic standard of coverage is worth it. “To the extent that we start picking up on what Sen. Landrieu wants,” he said, “we never move to the new system.”

“We don’t want to continue those bad policies. People had policies that were good for them as long as they were healthy,” Harkin said. “It’s not even a short-term fix. It’s not the way to go. Let’s stick to what we’ve got. They’re fixing the website — people can still sign up with paper or phone … And it’s going to get even better. So I don’t see any problems.”

Ezra Klein begs for another suicide charge to save the law:

1. The Affordable Care Act’s political position has deteriorated dramatically over the last week. President Bill Clinton’s statement that the law should be reopened to ensure everyone who likes their health plans can keep them was a signal event. It gives congressional Democrats cover to begin breaking with the Obama administration…

4. The bill Landrieu is offering could really harm the law. It would mean millions of people who would’ve left the individual insurance market and gone to the exchanges will stay right where they are. Assuming those people skew younger, healthier, and richer — and they do — Obamacare’s premiums will rise. Meanwhile, many people who could’ve gotten better insurance on the exchanges will stay in bad plans that will leave them bankrupt when they get sick.
“I think it would be a real substantive mistake to do the Landrieu bill,” says MIT health economist Jon Gruber, a supporter of the Affordable Care Act.

5. Put simply, the Landrieu bill solves one of Obamacare’s political problems at the cost of worsening its most serious policy problem: Adverse selection. Right now, the difficulty of signing up is deterring all but the most grimly determined enrollees. The most determined enrollees are, by and large, sicker and older. So the Web site’s problems are leading to a sicker, older risk pool. Landrieu’s bill will lead to a sicker, older risk pool. Obamacare has provisions meant to stop an out-of-control death spiral, but higher premiums are a real danger. (For more on that, see “Seven reasons Obamacare isn’t facing a death spiral.”)

6. How much will premiums rise if Landrieu’s bill passes? No one knows. “It sure would be good to know how bad that problem is,” says Drew Altman, president of the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. “I don’t feel I know.” Jon Gruber agrees. “I don’t know how much higher premiums go,” he sighs. “I really don’t.” I asked Landrieu’s office whether they had any estimates. “We expect the impact to be very minimal as this bill is designed as a transitional fix,” says a staffer.

Meanwhile, who will speak for the enrollment numbers? No one, it seems.

Exit quotation: “To be completely honest with you, we had a difficult time booking Democrats to come on after those numbers were released, to have them come on and talk about fixing the problem.”

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Popcorn man, I have missed you.

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:31 PM

Little slow.

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:31 PM

C’mon, really?

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Lonely.

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Omega man.

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:33 PM

Man this is fun.

gophergirl on November 13, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Just us two.

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:34 PM

How are ya?

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Suck it. Now hear this gope, let it burn completely

AH_C on November 13, 2013 at 9:35 PM

If the Dems are counting on a fig-leaf cover from the White House on Friday, Boehner should move up the House vote on Upton to THURSDAY.

Turn up the heat on the House RATS b4 they know what cover they may accrue.

matthew8787 on November 13, 2013 at 9:35 PM

I trust Democrats/media/GOP Establishment are loving them some Ted Cruz and Mike Lee…

Bwa ha ha ha…

I guess those two weren’t Terrorists and hostage takers after all…

TheRightMan on November 13, 2013 at 9:36 PM

The house needs to introduce bill nuliffying O’Commiecare and several executive orders while they’re at it.

Then repeatedly ask Dingy Harry why he’s dragging his feet while cancer patients Barky canceled are being kept in harm’s way?

viking01 on November 13, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Yea, I think a full repeal bill would be appropriate about now.

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:37 PM

Tie this whole pus-infested stinking mess to every Democrat who was in office when it landed. Make every last one of them own it lock stock and barrel. Publish their vote right below their picture. To do anything less means giving them a pass.

Mr. Grump on November 13, 2013 at 9:37 PM

How would Landrieu’s law even work? Is the gov going to now compel/force insurance companies to sell a product that no longer exists? If this goes through, I see a slippery slope of the Feds telling business what to tell and to whom.

jawkneemusic on November 13, 2013 at 9:37 PM

Rep. José E. Serrano, D-N.Y. “Maybe I’m being simplistic, but can’t we call Bill Gates up and say, ‘Take care of this?’ Or go to a college dorm and say, ‘You guys, you invented Yahoo, can you take care of this?’”

O_O

Really?

This is who we’re dealing with here.

Good Gawd.

Bishop on November 13, 2013 at 9:38 PM

I think the Landrieu 2009 position is best…

‘If They Don’t Like Obamacare, They Can Unelect Us.’

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 9:38 PM

When asked why not end DeathCare in toto Louisiana Purchase Landrieu responded: “I love the Wizard of Oz.”

viking01 on November 13, 2013 at 9:38 PM

“Why can’t we call people who know how to do these things, who do it for corporate America, and say, ‘We have a website, fix it?’” asked Rep. José E. Serrano, D-N.Y. “Maybe I’m being simplistic, but can’t we call Bill Gates up and say, ‘Take care of this?’ Or go to a college dorm and say, ‘You guys, you invented Yahoo, can you take care of this?’”

Ladies and gentlemen, an over-ten-term elected member of the United States House of Representatives.

KingGold on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

We skipped Second World. From First World to Third World in five years. Man, that awesome, Ododo.

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

A little early for popcorn man.

Next thing you know, y’all will start singing Waterloo. And I was never that fond of ABBA. Though it did get Arrival. Mainly for the Bell 47.

cozmo on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

jawkneemusic on November 13, 2013 at 9:37 PM

It’s unconstitutional – there’s not even a ta-ta-penalty included. If upheld, we could, conceivably, see a Maduro situation one day where the government tells electronic stores that they have to sell products at a ‘fair’ price.

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Serious question. Last month when these people were showing “unity” and calling Ted Cruz deranged… Did they see this turn of events? Or did exposure of Obama as a liar, lack of progress in fixing the website, and sticker shock make the difference?

IMO the deciding factor was the numbers of those whose policies were cancelled (millions) compared to those able to enroll (106K).

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Emmanuel on Kelly File blaming Fox News. This guy is a pathetic creep. We need him on TV more. He’s a great spokesman for Obamacare!

BuckeyeSam on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

“Democrats in our caucus were responsible for the passage of this bill … and we took a great deal of heat for it, but understanding, in the end, that what were were doing was in the best interest of the country.

Yeah? So why was a MAJORITY opposed to it?

You wanted that POS, you got that POS, you live with that POS!

See you in the unemployment line.

GarandFan on November 13, 2013 at 9:40 PM

And while you’re at it, publish quotes and pictures of some establishment Republicans. “Terrorists and hostage-takers”
MY EYE!

Mr. Grump on November 13, 2013 at 9:40 PM

What does Uptons bill actually do other than give ried something to strip and send back with chubby faces language inserted?

More ping pong? Boehner can’t volley very well.

Table everything. Make whorehouse harry own it.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 9:40 PM

“We don’t want to continue those bad policies. People had policies that were good for them as long as they were healthy,” Harkin said. “It’s not even a short-term fix. It’s not the way to go. Let’s stick to what we’ve got. They’re fixing the website — people can still sign up with paper or phone … And it’s going to get even better. So I don’t see any problems.”

I wonder if Harkin will reprise his fantasmagorical performance at the Paul Wellstone funeral when it’s time to bury Obamacare. One can only hope.

TXUS on November 13, 2013 at 9:41 PM

cozmo on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

ABBA talking about a reunion next year.

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:41 PM

“We’ve got a problem, and we gotta fix it, and we’re looking for what the White House response is gonna be,” said Rep. Peter Welch, D-Vt.

Oooo, sad news for you Petey, my boy. Obama is not much of a leader. More of a big picture guy.

Good luck with getting guidance from the WH.

socalcon on November 13, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Votes have consequences.

SouthernGent on November 13, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Republicans should vote to defund and nothing else.

Jackson on November 13, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Recall: Tom Harkin is retiring rather than face the voters next year. So, of course, he is going to say ‘stick with it.’

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 9:43 PM

jawkneemusic on November 13, 2013 at 9:37 PM

Unlike securities, which are largely regulated at the federal level (Congress, SEC, etc.), insurance is largely regulated by the individual states. As a result, any changes have to get state approval.

BuckeyeSam on November 13, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Republicans should vote to defund and nothing else.

Jackson on November 13, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……

redguy on November 13, 2013 at 9:44 PM

It doesn’t matter what We the People want, all that matters is the Democrats nationalize health care. They should pay for this forever.

Charlemagne on November 13, 2013 at 9:44 PM

Bishop on November 13, 2013 at 9:38 PM

.
At that, he may be one of their brighter bulbs.

I think the Landrieu 2009 position is best…

‘If They Don’t Like Obamacare, They Can Unelect Us.’

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 9:38 PM

.
You need to think BIGGER …
.
.
.
… more soon, just want to scan a few more comments …

PolAgnostic on November 13, 2013 at 9:44 PM

Cruz is on Kelly File now, politely enjoying a little schadenfreude.

BuckeyeSam on November 13, 2013 at 9:44 PM

It’s unconstitutional – there’s not even a ta-ta-penalty included. If upheld, we could, conceivably, see a Maduro situation one day where the government tells electronic stores that they have to sell products at a ‘fair’ price.

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Exactly! What hell are these people doing?!

jawkneemusic on November 13, 2013 at 9:45 PM

there’s not even a ta-ta-penalty included. If upheld, we could, conceivably, see a Maduro situation one day where the government tells electronic stores that they have to sell products at a ‘fair’ price. Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 9:39

That’s almost exactly what it is. Just add they dictate product specs as well.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 9:45 PM

msupertas on November 13, 2013 at 9:41 PM

I’d be more interested in the chopper.

cozmo on November 13, 2013 at 9:46 PM

So, it there one or two navigators getting paid for each person who’s signed up? That’s a level of service the private sector cannot provide….

/

Fallon on November 13, 2013 at 9:46 PM

The bill Landrieu is offering could really harm the law. It would mean millions of people who would’ve left the individual insurance market and gone to the exchanges will stay right where they are

A savvy GOP’er would call for everyone to vote against this bill because, as Preznit Dog Eater clearly stated, the people leaving the individual market were doomed with junk plans and now the demorats want them to stay doomed?

Bishop on November 13, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Arrrgh! Is there… IS there… Stupid fingers.

Fallon on November 13, 2013 at 9:46 PM

So did The One tell Landrieu “If you like your Senate seat, you can keep your Senate seat. Period?”

NeoDawg on November 13, 2013 at 9:47 PM

When you hire and then rehire amateurs …. don’t say you weren’t warned.

CWchangedhisNicagain on November 13, 2013 at 9:48 PM

Maybe I’m being simplistic, but can’t we call Bill Gates up and say, ‘Take care of this?’ Or go to a college dorm and say, ‘You guys, you invented Yahoo, can you take care of this?’”

I don’t even know where to begin…

Bill Gates never built websites. Ever.

Yahoo! is a search directory, not a purchasing portal. Also, its originators haven’t been in a college dorm for a long time.

I’ll bet Serrano is one of those clients who thinks he can hire one developer to build Facebook for $100.

Sockpuppet Politic on November 13, 2013 at 9:48 PM

he may be one of their brighter bulbs.

Neither is Upton. ;)

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Ah yes, I remember the suicide charge. Pelosi and all the rich donors promised they would be protected and get all the support they needed in the midterms. Even Bill Clinton stopped by to give some advice. They were nothing, but useful idiots. Boehner, Cantor and Ryan have been trying to do the same thing with Republicans in the House on immigration, but they aren’t buying it, YET.

Wigglesworth on November 13, 2013 at 9:49 PM

If the Dems are counting on a fig-leaf cover from the White House on Friday, Boehner should move up the House vote on Upton to THURSDAY.

Turn up the heat on the House RATS b4 they know what cover they may accrue.

matthew8787 on November 13, 2013 at 9:35 PM

He can’t. The process is pretty restricted and it goes to the Rules Committee on Thursday.

The bigger question is just what happens after both House and Senate bills go nowhere (my prediction). There are few legislative days left in 2013. The Dems are going to really be in a panic if “something” does not happen this week? And I don’t think anything is going to happen this week.

Does Obama get involved? How does he do that without retreating from all that has happened before now? My advice to all is hammer your Congresscritters.

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 9:50 PM

Fox Poll: Congressional Generic Ballot

October 20-22, 2013: D +8

Now: R +3

11 point swing in 2 weeks.

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 9:50 PM

If the Dems are counting on a fig-leaf cover from the White House on Friday, Boehner should move up the House vote on Upton to THURSDAY.

I don’t think Boehner knows how to play those games. He’ll probably try to explain to them why the bills will make it worse, and then work with them to try to find a “solution”.

SailorMark on November 13, 2013 at 9:52 PM

It’s still a debacle. A run-away ever growing all consuming debacle.

SparkPlug on November 13, 2013 at 9:52 PM

I’ll bet Serrano is one of those clients who thinks he can hire one developer to build Facebook for $100.

Sockpuppet Politic on November 13, 2013 at 9:48 PM

I’ll bet Serrano is one of those guys who paid $100 for somebody to write his term papers.

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Whatever Ezra Klein and Jon Gruber think is bad is probably best for the country and certainly best for average Americans.

Get the self appointed smart guys out of policy making and government. Out of the universities too! Make these people go out and get real work, so the rest of us are safe from their crazy do-good schemes.

MTF on November 13, 2013 at 9:53 PM

GOP NEEDS to be careful on this.

This might be unpopular, but, if the GOP starts the whole repeal thing again, that will once again take the focus off of the real issues. The public, once they got past the whole shut down thing, started to focus on obamacare, and when they did, the favorability just tanked and tanked fast. You dont want to give the dems cover again.

Sad to say that replea is not going to happen with the senate in the hands that it is in right now. Plus the likes of McCain will do nothing to help matters either.

As much as I hate it, after being called every degrading name in the book in the last 5 years, we can not give the ball back to the left and let them form the narrative again.

watertown on November 13, 2013 at 9:54 PM

SparkPlug on November 13, 2013 at 9:52 PM

AKA Black Hole.

John Wiley Price is not happy.

cozmo on November 13, 2013 at 9:54 PM

replea = repeal.

watertown on November 13, 2013 at 9:54 PM

There’s only one ‘fix’ I’ll get behind: a total rollback. Repeal first. We can discuss the details of fixing the problems with our healthcare system afterwards.

Chaz706 on November 13, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Dems new slogan: Hope, and Change ObamaCare

faraway on November 13, 2013 at 9:55 PM

The GOP should all vote “present” on any bill that comes to the floor.

SailorMark on November 13, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Serious question. Last month when these people were showing “unity” and calling Ted Cruz deranged… Did they see this turn of events? Or did exposure of Obama as a liar, lack of progress in fixing the website, and sticker shock make the difference?

IMO the deciding factor was the numbers of those whose policies were cancelled (millions) compared to those able to enroll (106K).

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM


Thank you
, I knew one of the regulars would give me a launching point.

It occurred to me tonight while out with my dogs there is another “turn of the wheel” coming around in this epic disaster the pundits have not thought about/raised yet …

… there are some RINO’s who are going to have “some ‘splaining to do” and are going to be facing their own dose of “voter wrath”.

Thoughts?

Leave McCain out of it for the time being but “little Missy Graham”, Jeb Bush, Chris “Hippo’s for Obama” Christie and some other GOPe darlings are caught on the wrong side of how this plays out over the next year.

PolAgnostic on November 13, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Perhaps I’m being too simplistic but can’t we just pull the plug on this debacle by hiring some expert plug pullers on eBay?

SparkPlug on November 13, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……

redguy on November 13, 2013 at 9:44 PM

You stuck on the order it happens?

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 9:56 PM

So Ted Cruz filibustered and stood up to Obama to stop this Obamination and then Cruz was made responsible for the shutdown even though it was Obama who was refusing to negotiate. And now they’ll have to do exactly what Cruz wanted to do, delay this travesty. OH MY!

This is what the Dems are really scared of. Being the catalyst proving that the Tea Party is right and aligned with Americans. Also, what if social programs (like Obamacare) were shut down and America was better for it. “Oh noes”, says the Dems.

MrX on November 13, 2013 at 9:56 PM

No, really. What does Upton lightbulb czar’s proposal actually accomplish?

Serious question.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 9:57 PM

The Donks are standing on the trap door of a scaffold but rest assure that the GOP Ruling Class is looking for a way to lengthen the rope.

Bruno Strozek on November 13, 2013 at 9:58 PM

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FM6RVXQ?psc=1

Renee on November 13, 2013 at 9:58 PM

11 point swing in 2 weeks.

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 9:50 PM

.
More ammo for my RINO’s “twisting in the wind” idea …

PolAgnostic on November 13, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Renee on November 13, 2013 at 9:58 PM

Mmmmmmmmmm!

SailorMark on November 13, 2013 at 10:00 PM

3 at 9:54 PM replea = repeal. watertown on November 13, 2013 at 9:54 PM

They both work.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 10:00 PM

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 9:57 PM

1. It’s a PR win – looking out for the little guy and stuff.

2. It would PERMIT (not mandate like Landrieu’s bill) insurance companies to offer the plans that were canceled by Obamacare to those that have lost or will lose them.

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 10:01 PM

3. It would also make Obamacare’s economics more dire and hasten its collapse.

These are the three arguments that I can think of to support it although I would prefer the ‘Votes/Elections have consequences’ approach.

It isn’t only politicians that need to learn that elections/votes have consequences. Americans need a big helping of brutal reminder, too.

Resist We Much on November 13, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Gee, you mean the 2500 page bill that no one read and was tyrannically forced on America in the dead of night isn’t working out in elegant comformance to liberal fantasy?

So let’s collude in jimmy-rigging it to save democrats’ as*es. Because we’re Republicans, and that’s what we do.

rrpjr on November 13, 2013 at 10:03 PM

The dems are in panic mode because they are going to have to tell their constituents they were lied to and duped by Obama and his crew.This is really going to make them look stupid to people.They can’t run from their vote.Trapped like rats.

docflash on November 13, 2013 at 10:04 PM

Ried will take the upton bill, strip it, insert fat marys language and send it back. With a shiteating grin.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Emmanuel on Kelly File blaming Fox News. This guy is a pathetic creep. We need him on TV more. He’s a great spokesman for Obamacare!

BuckeyeSam on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

He also thinks new parents should have a few weeks or months after birth to decide if they want to “abort” their child. I know what he is getting at. My brother has a child with serious developmental problems. They did not immediately show up. My brother’s family will have to spend thousands caring for a child who will always require care (at 18 months it still isn’t clear what their child sees, hears, or even if she will ever walk). Liberals see my niece as a burden on society even as they find ways to reward parasites with more welfare.

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 10:05 PM

I don’t know why they don’t just decide to give everyone free insurance through 2014.

faraway on November 13, 2013 at 10:07 PM

Interesting… the Democrats act as though they are entirely taken by surprise by this catastrophic debacle…yet we on the right began to warn them about what would transpire with the passage of Obamacare in 2009… and were called ‘racist’ ‘Nazi’ ‘un-American’ ‘un-patriotic’ ‘knuckle-dragger’ ‘tea bagger’ ‘neanderthal’, et al. Everything those who objected to the legislation said has come to pass or will come to pass the longer it’s allowed to remain the law.

I think the most shocking thing about Obamacare was that no one bothered to read the legislation before they voted for it and signed it… that legislation could literally have contained anything… they’ve allowed unsupervised bureaucrats from disparate federal agencies to add over 8000 pages of rules and regulations to the original 2000 plus pages, again, without supervision, and when anyone dared to disagree with either the legislation itself, or the means by which it was passed, or the rampant additions to it since… they’ve been assailed by the LEFT with rank vitriol without regard for the fact that we are all Americans.

Turning on one’s own countrymen simply because one can is not only astonishing…it’s entirely unforgivable.

thatsafactjack on November 13, 2013 at 10:07 PM

The bigger question is just what happens after both House and Senate bills go nowhere (my prediction). There are few legislative days left in 2013. The Dems are going to really be in a panic if “something” does not happen this week? And I don’t think anything is going to happen this week.

Does Obama get involved? How does he do that without retreating from all that has happened before now? My advice to all is hammer your Congresscritters.

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 9:50 PM


No
… not yet.

The GOP should all vote “present” on any bill that comes to the floor.

SailorMark on November 13, 2013 at 9:55 PM


Still
too proactive

The vote on the Upton bill should be delayed … but do not announce the delay until Friday morning.

Why give Democrats ANY political cover … yet.

Let them stew over the weekend while they consider what they will face when they go home to their districts for Thanksgiving.

This will also undermine Reid’s ability to play legislative games with the House bill … if the House doesn’t pass it, he can’t do sh1t.

Meanwhile, Democratic Senators will be getting more desperate …

PolAgnostic on November 13, 2013 at 10:07 PM

Ried will take the upton bill, strip it, insert fat marys language and send it back. With a shiteating grin.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 10:05 PM

No he won’t. Any possibility of a bill that passes both houses will mean that Obama would have to sign or veto. You really think Obama is going to let Reid put him in that position?

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Obama’s fellow Democrats have started to lose faith, and time is of the essence: The House will vote Friday on a GOP bill that would allow insurance companies to revive scrapped health insurance policies. Unless Democrats are certain that a remedy is on the way, many will be inclined to vote “yes.”

The Upton bill is a con-job by a lying stinkin republican corpratist. It doesnt mandate/allow insurance companies keep old plans instead of bootin people to more expensive plans.

paulsur on November 13, 2013 at 10:11 PM

I find it very interesting that:

1.There are more ads for more types of health insurance then ever before.
2.No one as a clue as to the current costs of the ACA. To include all the ad costs, promo costs and time spent costs to date.
3.No one has a clue as to the future cost that law suits will bring.

The state of Delaware just opened up it’s own site for shopping for health insurance. It works and includes the government subsidies.
The only site that is not working is Healthcare.gov. Who cares.
The democrats made this happen with their lock step party line vote of a massive law that had not even been written yet. They should all burn for ever in lock step fashion for their collective crimes against “We The People”.

It looks to me after searching a little bit on the internet that anyone who got a cancelation notice can get a replacement policy in a mater of minutes. Just don’t go to Healthcare.gov.

jpcpt03 on November 13, 2013 at 10:13 PM

“Why can’t we call people who know how to do these things, who do it for corporate America, and say, ‘We have a website, fix it?’” asked Rep. José E. Serrano, D-N.Y. “Maybe I’m being simplistic, but can’t we call Bill Gates up and say, ‘Take care of this?’ Or go to a college dorm and say, ‘You guys, you invented Yahoo, can you take care of this?’”

The morons are still focusing on the website thinking that by fixing it all their problems are gone… It is like someone bought the junkiest car in the world and could get into it because the car door is stuck and his focus is now on getting into the car thinking once he inside it then all is fine…

mnjg on November 13, 2013 at 10:13 PM

Fox Poll: Congressional Generic Ballot

October 20-22, 2013: D +8

Now: R +3

11 point swing in 2 weeks.

Resist We Much

Not possible. The Ted Cruz shut down destroyed the party forever!

xblade on November 13, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Just think, the President and political party that did this to health care, now wants us to trust them to deal with the environment and immigration. They haven’t even fixed one disaster and they want us to allow them to create 2 more. Then, the same President that did this, wants us to allow him to pack the courts so he can put into law what he’s incapable of legislating.

There comes a time when you just have to say enough. It’s that time.

bflat879 on November 13, 2013 at 10:21 PM

So, insurance companies that spent years restructuring. Can turn on a dime. Re-institute old plans. Re-program in a month.

no he won’t. Any possibility of a bill that passes both houses will mean that Obama would have to sign or veto. You really think Obama is going to let Reid put him in that position? Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 10:10 Pm

Yes, I do. Only it isn’t quite like that. It’s about pinning it on the House.

That dem senate meeting wasn’t for nothing. They’ll make it unpalatible for the House. The first cote is dem house members cover.

Watch.

They’ve done this before.

Then the dems vote present, second time.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Or demand conference, and repub “leadership” takes over and fights “the good fight”.

We know how that ends.

Meanwhile the msm has the ability to shift the blame for cancelled policies to the House.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 10:27 PM

So, insurance companies that spent years restructuring. Can turn on a dime. Re-institute old plans. Re-program in a month.

actually yes. remember the plans STILL EXIST until 12/31/13.

they have not been cancelled,or deleted yet. extending the expiration dates of the plan IS as simple as keystrokes changing the dates.

when people are late paying a premium and are cancelled then pay and get re-instated they don’t create an entirely new file just put active dates in.

now will this effect the financial balance of the future plans-thats a different issue.

gerrym51 on November 13, 2013 at 10:28 PM

Publish their vote right below their picture. To do anything less means giving them a pass.

Mr. Grump on November 13, 2013 at 9:37 PM

I like that idea. Like a Most Wanted List, LOL

bluefox on November 13, 2013 at 10:29 PM

Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……
Impeach, convict, repeal……

redguy on November 13, 2013 at 9:44 PM

You stuck on the order it happens?

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 9:56 PM

I think he’d be as happy as a clam if all three of those events occurred in ANY order.

As would I.

Chaz706 on November 13, 2013 at 10:30 PM

How would Landrieu’s law even work? Is the gov going to now compel/force insurance companies to sell a product that no longer exists? If this goes through, I see a slippery slope of the Feds telling business what to tell and to whom.

jawkneemusic on November 13, 2013 at 9:37 PM

Landrieu’s bill won’t work.

Why?

Because the policies that people want to keep are gone, legislated out of existence. The insurance companies that created and sold these policies were forced to cancel them, and you can’t simply create them again from thin air because the circumstances that created them in the first place no longer exist.

Whether Obamacare is defunded or repealed, the damage is done. We are facing an entirely new set of circumstances and putting Humpty Dumpty back together is impossible. We are going to face the building of a new insurance industry after this debacle, and unfortunately given the circumstances, let to their own devices I believe they will be worse for the consumer, not better.

The really smart Republicans out there however have the potential to create lasting success from the health care debacle, simply because people’s expectations will not be elevated as ridiculously as they were with Obamacare. However, before the repeal of Obamacare, commonsense solutions to the situation driven by the market with substantial consumer protection, the right for an individual to choose the coverage they wish without the need for ridiculous extras like birth control that push abortifacents that some have serious conscious reservations towards.

Come up with the solutions, make them real, then pull the plug on Obamacare.

itsspideyman on November 13, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Table everything. Make whorehouse harry own it.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 9:40 PM

If Boehner wasn’t so slow he would have beat Upton’s idiotic bill and sent Reid a Repeal bill. Then let Reid & the Dems vote it down.

Hang it around their necks. Stay out of it!!

Can’t say they haven’t earned their “Stupid” Party nic.

bluefox on November 13, 2013 at 10:35 PM

Breitbart has a thread up saying 4.7 million lost their health care in the first month!!

bluefox on November 13, 2013 at 10:39 PM

Happy Nomad on November 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM

I can’t speak for anyone else who didn’t support Cruz’s tactic and I don’t really want to take away from a glorious moment of Democrat self-destruction we all can rejoice in but my objection to Cruz’s tactic was that it wasn’t going to be effective then, and he sucked up all the air in the room when the rollout disaster started to happen. If we hadn’t bothered with the shutdown we would be two more weeks into wall-to-wall reporting of this farcical disaster of a program instead of giving the media something else to talk about during the beginning of October. We used a tactic that, at that time, was more unpopular than the program we were ostensibly trying to kill. Now that the American people are catching up to us not because of anything anyone in Washington did or even could have done but because they’re feeling the pain for themselves, it’s opening up our playbook a little bit more.

But what happened last month isn’t overly relevant at the moment. The Democrats are shooting themselves in the face so let’s sit back and pass the popcorn.

alchemist19 on November 13, 2013 at 10:42 PM

The bill Landrieu is offering could really harm the law. It would mean millions of people who would’ve left the individual insurance market and gone to the exchanges will stay right where they are. Assuming those people skew younger, healthier, and richer — and they do — Obamacare’s premiums will rise. Meanwhile, many people who could’ve gotten better insurance on the exchanges will stay in bad plans that will leave them bankrupt when they get sick.
“I think it would be a real substantive mistake to do the Landrieu bill,” says MIT health economist Jon Gruber, a supporter of the Affordable Care Act.

So, if Landrieu’s bill passes, O-Care goes bankrupt.

But, if it isn’t, and O-Care goes into effect sic scriptum est, it still goes bankrupt because there just aren’t enough “young invincibles” with enough money to pay for those at the top of the pyramid.

This means one of two things;

1. O-Care was never intended to work. Just to wreck the insurance industry and the health care system, o we would be forced into not just single-payer, but nationalized, entirely government-run health care system, like the ones failing (with much smaller population/patient bases) in Europe right now.

Or

2. Progressives are so amazingly ignorant of how insurance works that they actually thought that O-care was “doable”.

So, The One and Co. are either dishonest megalomaniacs- or they’re just mind-bogglingly stupid and ignorant of things like mathematics.

(Of course, these choices are not mutually exclusive.)

clear ether

eon

eon on November 13, 2013 at 10:44 PM

Breitbart has a thread up saying 4.7 million lost their health care in the first month!!

bluefox on November 13, 2013 at 10:39 PM

And another thread warning that the worst is yet to come -

up to 93 million innocent ObamaCare victims could lose the insurance they like and be thrown into the exchanges and, more than likely, face higher deductibles and premiums.

The media know that, should the majority of the public become aware of the fact that they are next, the uproar is almost certain to result in ObamaCare being repealed

Fail. Faster.

faraway on November 13, 2013 at 10:47 PM

won’t work. Why? Because the policies that people want to keep are gone, legislated out of existence. The insurance companies that created and sold these policies were forced to cancel them, and you can’t simply create them again from thin air because the circumstances that created them in the first place no longer exist.

Exactly. It’s not a keystroke move.

Reid knows it, too.

How to pin it on house r’s?

Vote on uptons bill with d support. Cover.

Strip it in the senate and send it back.

They have been doing it for years now….

Watch.

wolly4321 on November 13, 2013 at 10:50 PM

Meanwhile, many people who could’ve gotten better insurance on the exchanges will stay in bad plans that will leave them bankrupt when they get sick.

Bankruptcy is a legal tool that does help people out of extreme situations. It’s not the end of the world.

jdpaz on November 13, 2013 at 10:57 PM

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