ABC: WH not telling truth about alternate ObamaCare application methods, either

posted at 9:21 am on November 4, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Just consider this another example of Barack Obama misspeaking.  In the middle of last month’s Healthcare.gov rollout, Obama insisted that Americans had other ways of signing up for the totally awesome product in his Rose Garden pep rallyAmericans soon discovered otherwise, though, as operators standing by actually couldn’t enroll them in plans, which consumers couldn’t browse and had no way of calculating their subsidies without the website.

ABC News reports today that the White House knew that well before Barack Obama’s Rose Garden speech:

A series of internal Obama administration memos obtained exclusively by ABC News reveal for the first time how dysfunction with HealthCare.gov has upended the entire Affordable Care Act enrollment process, including applications by paper and phone that officials have been pushing as more reliable alternatives.

While President Obama and other top aides have publicly reassured frustrated consumers that they can bypass the troubled website and apply by phone in as little as 25 minutes, those working most closely with the rollout acknowledged privately that even the nonelectronic avenues would be no more efficient or guaranteed, the documents show.

“The same portal is used to determine eligibility no matter how the application is submitted (paper, online),” reads a Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight memo from Oct. 11.

“The paper applications allow people to feel like they are moving forward in the process and provides another option,” it says. “At the end of the day, we are all stuck in the same queue.”

The Obama administration knew on October 11th that calling the toll-free ObamaCare number or filling out paper applications wouldn’t do consumers any good. When did Obama go out into the Rose Garden to assure Americans that they could still enroll in health insurance through the call center or through paper applications? October 21st, ten days after this HHS memo.

Did the President misspeak? Or was he still so disconnected from his own administration, even in the midst of a political crisis of huge proportions, that he had no idea how his own system worked — or more accurately, didn’t work? Or did he know, and just flat-out lie?

Just remember — these are the same people who will run health insurance in the future, and are way smarter than you about whether you need maternity-care coverage when you’re in your 60s. This is becoming an object lesson in why we need to limit government to just the bare necessities.


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Did the President misspeak?

No. He’s lying. He’s attempting to put more and more lipstick on this pig, but the truth is that it is still a pig–-to steal his own phrase.

ted c on November 4, 2013 at 9:26 AM

This what a lie spinning out of control looks like.

Flange on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

Every day, yet another LIE uncovered…..

you know I’m beyond tired of this…does ANYONE
in the Republican Party have any plans to indict
any idividuals in this Administration, or are
they simply going to go along with the charade??

ToddPA on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

He should be speaking from a prison yard rather than the Rose Garden.

justltl on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

Check out Drudge and see what Jackie Mason has to say in an interview…yikes!!!…

PatriotRider on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

Did the President misspeak?

No, The-Con-artist-in-Chief was just lying though his teeth. Again.

GarandFan on November 4, 2013 at 9:30 AM

Does OJ have room in his cell for one more person???…

PatriotRider on November 4, 2013 at 9:30 AM

Door #3 Monty
Both!!

cmsinaz on November 4, 2013 at 9:32 AM

whether you need maternity-care coverage when you’re in your 60s male.

What if you are a male and are never going to marry or have kids? Even worse.

The press needs to call the president what he is, a liar! Misspeak my ass! Since he is ‘the smartest one in the room’ at all times, how can he ever “Misspeak”.

Patriot Vet on November 4, 2013 at 9:34 AM

I guess CBS and ABC need to be thanked for some honest reporting. I’m trying to think of a network or two that seem to be missing. Oh, yeah, where are NBC and MSNBC in all this?

I’d be interested to know what the ratings battle looks like. Fox, CNN, CBS, and ABC seem to be taking Obamacare and healthcare.gov, while NBC and MSNBC aren’t. So, how are the ratings playing out?

One other thing dawns on me: Who’s leaking all the internal memos? With Obama’s lousy second term start and with no end in sight, are some Dem operatives down the road trying to set up Hillary as the savior so that they can glom on to another Dem administration for four to eight years?

BuckeyeSam on November 4, 2013 at 9:34 AM

What isn’t a lie?
More to come.

bazil9 on November 4, 2013 at 9:35 AM

Incompetence leads to lies and lies lead to incompetence…

mnjg on November 4, 2013 at 9:35 AM

I blame TOTUS!!!!!!!

canopfor on November 4, 2013 at 9:35 AM

Check out Drudge and see what Jackie Mason has to say in an interview…yikes!!!…

PatriotRider on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/04/jackie-mason-obama-a-liar-who-should-be-locked-up/
Too good! I love that man. Never pulled a punch in his life.

katy the mean old lady on November 4, 2013 at 9:37 AM

We are screwed aren’t we

After he’s gone we’re stuck with the check
Does Hillary really want to follow this?

Whoever the gop candidate is they better be hammering Hillary same as Obama ad nauseum

cmsinaz on November 4, 2013 at 9:37 AM

Wow. The hits just keep coming. Who could have predicted this?

esr1951 on November 4, 2013 at 9:37 AM

Well, they could just put up racks of brochures in public libraries with forms that people could just send in by the US Mail.

Carrier pigeon? Telegraph?

dissent555 on November 4, 2013 at 9:38 AM

Regarding media coverage from ABC and CBS again, although they should be commended for recent reporting, what are their viewers thinking? Seriously, if they have half a brain, aren’t they asking why much of the coming Obamacare debacle for insurance markets wasn’t being reported three and four years ago?

BuckeyeSam on November 4, 2013 at 9:38 AM

At some point I suppose folks will realize that Mr. Obama just doesn’t care.

Why else would someone lie so blatantly about things that are known to be factual?

Marcus Traianus on November 4, 2013 at 9:38 AM

As of less than a minute ago on whitehouse.gov
“For those Americans who already have health insurance, the only changes you will see under the law are new benefits, better protections from insurance company abuses, and more value for every dollar you spend on health care. If you like your plan you can keep it and you don’t have to change a thing due to the health care law.”

katy the mean old lady on November 4, 2013 at 9:39 AM

Carrier pigeon? Telegraph?

dissent555 on November 4, 2013 at 9:38 AM

War drums?

katy the mean old lady on November 4, 2013 at 9:40 AM

Apparently, there is a point at which the pretense cannot be maintained by the MBM. We seem to have reached that point on O-care. Not to worry, it can’t last. I’m sure this is just a temporary outbreak of journalism.

mchristian on November 4, 2013 at 9:43 AM

Wow. The hits just keep coming. Who could have predicted this?

I’d say Joe Wilson in the SOTU circa 2009 was fairly spot on.

DanMan on November 4, 2013 at 9:44 AM

Why is there surprise about this. At this point is anyone, anyone at all who is expecting the truth about anything from this administration. It’s almost like they are being compelled to lie about even the simplest things. Joe Wilson was absolutely right. He lies!

Oldnuke on November 4, 2013 at 9:44 AM

Check out Drudge and see what Jackie Mason has to say in an interview…yikes!!!…

PatriotRider on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

Made my morning!

bazil9 on November 4, 2013 at 9:44 AM

I’d say Joe Wilson in the SOTU circa 2009 was fairly spot on.

DanMan on November 4, 2013 at 9:44 AM

Milliseconds, just milliseconds. But I did use more words.

Oldnuke on November 4, 2013 at 9:45 AM

Incompetence, dishonesty, or both?

Both.

Did the President misspeak?

No. He pulled a Clemens and misremembered.

rukiddingme on November 4, 2013 at 9:46 AM

Remember Watergate took almost two years to develop. It’s always the coverups.

Johnnyreb on November 4, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Joe Wilson 2016

katy the mean old lady on November 4, 2013 at 9:48 AM

Incompetence, dishonesty, or both?

Left one off Ed. “Intentional.”

Bmore on November 4, 2013 at 9:48 AM

Obamacare is so great, they we will force you to buy into it (while giving their friends an out) and lie to you about your options once it is in place.

You couldn’t make this into a movie because nobody would believe it.

Mord on November 4, 2013 at 9:49 AM

Did he misspeak? No. Everything Obama says is a lie. It was intended… Every speech is written and loaded into TOTUS in advance. At least 24 times they loaded TOTUS with “if you like your insurance you can keep it”.

GrannySunni on November 4, 2013 at 9:50 AM

When did Obama go out into the Rose Garden to assure Americans that they could still enroll in health insurance through the call center or through paper applications? October 21st, ten days after this HHS memo.

The lazy stupid bastard all but said “operators are standing by.” He told us that it would only take 20 minutes (40 minutes if you were enrolling your family). And it was all a lie.

Something to laugh about in the bread lines.

Happy Nomad on November 4, 2013 at 9:52 AM

OT: Chris Christie is the gop frontrunner for 2016
So says the msdnc hacks

Well I guess we don’t have to have a primary ….the lsm has crowned him winner
/

cmsinaz on November 4, 2013 at 9:52 AM

No. He pulled a Clemens and misremembered.

rukiddingme on November 4, 2013 at 9:46 AM

No! He lied! Everything out of his stinking mouth is a lie. He is incapable of truth. He is not trustworthy and he’s certainly not worthy to hold the office of president. Under his administration we as a nation have suffered and been shamed. It’s not over yet either. I fear there is more to come. He will destroy this nation.

Oldnuke on November 4, 2013 at 9:53 AM

Pathological. They just can’t help themselves. Incapable of telling the truth.

Midas on November 4, 2013 at 9:55 AM

What if Bush did this?

/I know… I know.

Key West Reader on November 4, 2013 at 9:55 AM

Check out Drudge and see what Jackie Mason has to say in an interview…yikes!!!…

PatriotRider on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

I just finished reading that!! Awesome!!

“He’s saying things that nobody believes. He was always lying every day of his life. Every time he talks it was a lie. The only time he tells the truth is when you didn’t hear from him.”

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/11/legendary-comic-flays-obama-as-lying-maniac/#QTmtKUGhTV7su1a1.99

bluefox on November 4, 2013 at 9:56 AM

Have the media and the WH called Joe Wilson to apologize yet?

Just wondering.

Midas on November 4, 2013 at 9:57 AM

OT: Chris Christie is the gop frontrunner for 2016
So says the msdnc hacks

Well I guess we don’t have to have a primary ….the lsm has crowned him winner
/

cmsinaz on November 4, 2013 at 9:52 AM

Well, no – they’ve crowned him the ideal person to inevitably lose to Hillary. The GOP establishment will do their best to make sure he’s the candidate, I’m sure.

Midas on November 4, 2013 at 9:58 AM

The silver lining to the Obamacare rollout is that it’s smacking a lot of Liberals upside the head with the reality that someone actually has to pay for government redistribution. It’s a great learning experience.

Charlemagne on November 4, 2013 at 10:00 AM

In addition to Obama lying, every Democrat that voted on Senator Mike Enzi’s Resolution in Sept. 2010 lied also. Those Dem Senators have no where to hide. They knew, otherwise they would not have voted and killed that Resolution!!

bluefox on November 4, 2013 at 10:00 AM

The GOP establishment will do their best to make sure he’s the candidate, I’m sure.

Midas on November 4, 2013 at 9:58 AM

Our job is to make sure Christie is not OUR Candidate.

bluefox on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

“The only time he tells the truth is when you didn’t hear from him.”

Sorry, Jackie, but this falls under the old question “if a tree falls and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?”

Just because you don’t “hear” him he’s still lying. A falling tree always makes a sound. A lying Obama always lies.

Kraken on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

Now can we impeach him? Obama is a “greater” lier than Nixon!

Cherokee on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

The Rodeo Clown can get away with anything.
He could in full public view and on live TV crap on the White House lawn and wipe his butt with the original Constitution and absolutely nothing would come of it.

justltl on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

What if Bush did this?

/I know… I know.

Key West Reader on November 4, 2013 at 9:55 AM

If Bush had done this the Democrats would be trying to impeach him, impose the death penalty and temporarily suspend that thing about cruel and unusual punishment in the Constitution.

Oldnuke on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

There is only one reason that Obama hasn’t been impeached yet and that’s his skin color. The idiots in Congress are too afraid of being called racist. Pathetic losers.

Oldnuke on November 4, 2013 at 10:03 AM

Actually, now that I think about it, that is, in essence, what the Clown does on a nearly daily basis.

justltl on November 4, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Every day, yet another LIE uncovered…..

you know I’m beyond tired of this…does ANYONE
in the Republican Party have any plans to indict
any idividuals in this Administration, or are
they simply going to go along with the charade??

ToddPA on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

For sure, those who perjered themselves in this administration should face the heat. But come Nov. 2016, and even starting tomorrow, we need to work together…conservatives, the GOP moderates, the tea partiers, all of us…in getting that GOP control in DC again in the Senate and WH.

I don’t envy the people who would be responsible for cleaning up this horrid mess, but one thing I do not want to hear, is blame being put on “the previous administration” or talk of “what we inherited”. It was plain stoopidity hen the Left did it, and still does, and it would by highly hypocritical for the Right to do it either. Lesson from Reagan–don’t moan and complain about what’s inherited or not, just start fixing it.

Incompetence, dishonesty, or both?

Both. Which began moments after Obama took his oath of office, with that ridiculous “Beer Summit” after accusing the Cambridge police of “acting stupidly”.

JetBoy on November 4, 2013 at 10:06 AM

OT: Chris Christie is the gop frontrunner for 2016
So says the msdnc hacks

cmsinaz on November 4, 2013 at 9:52 AM

I’m not sure they even know a Republican. Leaving the fat bastard out of the equation, there is no way that a Northeastern liberal is a frontrunner among rank-and-file Republicans. Sure, the WaPo and NYT would give Christie the endorsement in the primaries and shift to the Democrat in the general election. But I would hope the last two Presidential elections would dissuade grassroots Republicans to go with the left’s choice for our candidate in the name of “electability.”

Happy Nomad on November 4, 2013 at 10:06 AM

Now can we impeach him? Obama is a “greater” lier than Nixon!

Cherokee on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

And at least Nixon had the where-with-all to resign when the shiz hit the fan. I swear, if Reagan was he “teflon president” then Obama is the “superball president”…lies and incompetence don’t simply slide off The One, they ricochet and bounce off all over the place.

JetBoy on November 4, 2013 at 10:12 AM

There is only one reason that Obama hasn’t been impeached yet and that’s his skin color. The idiots in Congress are too afraid of being called racist. Pathetic losers.

Oldnuke on November 4, 2013 at 10:03 AM

The absolute perfect Manchurian candidate.

justltl on November 4, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Remember Watergate took almost two years to develop. It’s always the coverups.

Johnnyreb on November 4, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Never going to happen. The Republicans will never, ever permit Obama to be impeached. There’s literally nothing he can do that would end in impeachment.

Ultimately, the Obamacare debacle will have little long-term impact on his administration because the Republicans will just continue voting for everything he wants regardless of how low his approval ratings drop. There will be egg on his face for a couple of months, but that will be it.

Doomberg on November 4, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Now can we impeach him? Obama is a “greater” lier than Nixon!

Cherokee on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

No cause y’see Historical Persons are not liable or subject to the same criteria of accountability cause they’re Historical and this would be bullying and there might be some riots or something…

Identity Politics…It’s what’s for breakfast

workingclass artist on November 4, 2013 at 10:19 AM

“The paper applications allow people to feel like they are moving forward in the process and provides another option,”

In a lib’s mind, the issue is solved simply because they FEEL better.

hillsoftx on November 4, 2013 at 10:20 AM

I’m disgusted by Obama and the Dem party but I’m equally disgusted by the MSM. All of a sudden they seem to be finding all kinds of evidence that they couldn’t seem to find before. I’m not buying it. The have all been sitting on this evidence for years. The only reason they are acting like journalists is they can see Obama going down and they don’t want to go down with him. If Obama and the Dems somehow fix this mess the msm will be right back to bashing the GOP

neyney on November 4, 2013 at 10:22 AM

The lefts infatuation with Bush lying even though he never did always fascinated me because it was a simple smear campaign that took root.

Now we have Obama who can’t seem to get through a conversation without telling a whopper. I mean, it is blatant, constant and obvious. The intellectually honest on the left, and I don’t have to take off my shoes to count them, are now realizing the truth or at least compelled to admit it.

Now for the vast majority of the left we see the same phenomenon of mass ignorance they used to eviscerate Bush to exonerate Obama.

filetandrelease on November 4, 2013 at 10:22 AM

And DO NOT trust the media for 1 week of journalism. This is nothing more than realizing we have Pres Lame Duck so it is safe now to report to their viewers the truth to gain their confidence back. Once they have secured their viewers again, they can then be “trusted” to recommend Pres. Cankles with all of her wondermous solutions she will have for KevorkianCare.

hillsoftx on November 4, 2013 at 10:23 AM

It’s not about health care, it’s about tyranny.

Akzed on November 4, 2013 at 10:29 AM

Both, saying and doing anything to impose socialism on the American people against their will

jake49 on November 4, 2013 at 10:29 AM

The Rodeo Clown can get away with anything.
He could in full public view and on live TV crap on the White House lawn and wipe his butt with the original Constitution and absolutely nothing would come of it.

justltl on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

While agree with your overall sentiment, I want to point out that rodeo clowns are heroes who save lives. Obama is a liar who wants to kill sick people.

juliesa on November 4, 2013 at 10:43 AM

Obamacare, just like socialism in other countries, will collapse for the obvious reasons. The greater outcome in all of this will be, I hope and pray,a well learned lesson for the citizens of the U.S. Plus, the U.S. Supreme Court Justice’s who voted for the passing of this nightmare are as much to blame as well.

Cherokee on November 4, 2013 at 10:46 AM

This what a lie spinning out of control looks like.

Flange on November 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM

Kind of reminds me of the Watergate days. Constant spin in an attempt to plug up the dyke.

Didn’t work.

Hope they won’t be successful here either.

NavyMustang on November 4, 2013 at 10:48 AM

Now can we impeach him? Obama is a “greater” lier than Nixon!

Cherokee on November 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM

And at least Nixon had the where-with-all to resign when the shiz hit the fan. I swear, if Reagan was he “teflon president” then Obama is the “superball president”…lies and incompetence don’t simply slide off The One, they ricochet and bounce off all over the place.

JetBoy on November 4, 2013 at 10:12 AM

He’s the Affirmative Action president; no need to invent new labels.

slickwillie2001 on November 4, 2013 at 10:50 AM

The toll free number does work, for someone to tell you to call your state health department and sign up for Medicaid. Success.

Fleuries on November 4, 2013 at 11:03 AM

The single most important paragraph of this entire piece:

Just remember — these are the same people who will run health insurance in the future, and are way smarter than you about whether you need maternity-care coverage when you’re in your 60s. This is becoming an object lesson in why we need to limit government to just the bare necessities.

Obamacare will be the Coup de grâce for Battered Liberal Syndrome…

http://www.ImperfectAmerica.com

imperfectamerica on November 4, 2013 at 11:03 AM

Obama Lied, Health Insurance Died.

Fleuries on November 4, 2013 at 11:04 AM

Or did he know, and just flat-out lie?

We’ve passed the point of needing to give Obama and his SpiteHouse any benefit of the doubt.
The more appropriate question now seems to be… does it ever even occur to Obama and his administration to tell the truth?

lynncgb on November 4, 2013 at 11:11 AM

Yes, they are incompetent, but they are also liars. Let’s keep that in mind when thinking about how they will run and control our individual health care.

GaltBlvnAtty on November 4, 2013 at 11:12 AM

I’ll go with “flat out lie”, that’s easy. What’s interesting is that Cardboard Cutout Obama and his crew of hapless but vicious clowns aren’t even good at lying. The fool is out there spouting his dumb, deceitful guff even as it collapses all around him. He & they are to stupid and mired in a life of lies to improve their lying. Remember, he’s the smart one, the 160 IQ guy, the One which the media fell all over for, this trash.

arand on November 4, 2013 at 11:15 AM

From ‘American Thinker’ website today:

“In December of 2009, Mark Steyn adroitly warned, “Democrat operators … know that what matters is to get something, anything across the river, and then burn the bridge behind you” and that single-payer, government-run health care is “the fast track to a permanent left-of-center political culture.”

As recently as August 12 of this year, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid openly confirmed Steyn’s prediction that ObamaCare is but a stepping stone toward achieving the ultimate goal of the progressive left: a single-payer system.

Now that the Obama administration has rolled out its self-proclaimed “single greatest achievement,” some hard facts are finally becoming known about costs and sign-up counts, even as the government fights tooth and nail to prevent such disclosures. And for good reason: Medicaid enrollment is soaring, and new paid policies are almost nonexistent.

Financially, Obama looks to be much worse than a train wreck, but progressives don’t really care about money. It’s all about the ideology and getting everyone over that bridge.”

Cherokee on November 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM

What difference does it make?!! /s

g2825m on November 4, 2013 at 11:36 AM

Never going to happen. The Republicans Democrats will never, ever permit Obama to be impeached convicted. There’s literally nothing he can do that would end in impeachment conviction.

Doomberg on November 4, 2013 at 10:18 AM

FIFY.

When are people going to wake up and realize that, no matter what you think of Boehner and Co., this is not a Republican problem. As long as there are at least 34 Dems in the Senate, impeachment is a pointless waste of time that will distract from actually accomplishing anything, and turn The One into a martyr in the process.

Athanasius on November 4, 2013 at 11:45 AM

That last sentence, Ed. You are becoming a Libertarian!

tngmv on November 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM

Incompetence, dishonesty or both?

Heh. Like some of the old National Lampoon magazine articles. “The Dutch: Threat or Menace?”

How about “Obamacare: Mendacity or Prevarication?” Lies or damned lies?

de rigueur on November 4, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Bart had it figured out years ago.

Principal Skinner: “Bart, why do you lie so much?”

Bart: “Because it’s the easiest way to get what I want.”

Syd B. on November 4, 2013 at 12:37 PM

And still, thanks to the 0bama-bots in NOVA, I am afraid we’re going to be stuck with McAuliffe for the next 4 years!

mel23059 on November 4, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Here’s an explanation for Obama’s serial lying which I read on The Diplomad 2.0:

BeckyCNovember 4, 2013 at 12:47 AM

Thomas Sowell had an excellent column a year ago along these same lines…

Confidence men know that their victim — “the mark” as he has been called — is eventually going to realize that he has been cheated. But it makes a big difference whether he realizes it immediately, and goes to the police, or realizes it after the confidence man is long gone.

So part of the confidence racket is creating a period of uncertainty, during which the victim is not yet sure of what is happening. This delaying process has been called “cooling out the mark.”

The same principle applies in politics. When the accusations that led to the impeachment of President Bill Clinton first surfaced, he flatly denied them all. Then, as the months passed, the truth came out — but slowly, bit by bit. One of Clinton’s own White House aides later called it “telling the truth slowly.”

By the time the whole truth came out, it was called “old news,” and the clever phrase now was that we should “move on.”

It was a successful “cooling out” of the public, keeping them in uncertainty so long that, by the time the whole truth came out, there was no longer the same outrage as if the truth had suddenly come out all at once.

Sowell is speaking to the misdirection regarding a video being responsible for Benghazi. He continues…

The White House had to know that it was only a matter of time before the truth would come out. But time was what mattered, with an election close at hand. The longer they could stretch out the period of distraction and uncertainty — “cooling out” the voters — the better. Once the confidence man in the White House was reelected, it would be politically irrelevant what facts came out.

—–

Looks like they are still cooling out the mark. Wait for the ‘What difference, at this stage, does it make?”

Antivenin on November 4, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Or was he still so disconnected from his own administration, even in the midst of a political crisis of huge proportions, that he had no idea how his own system worked — or more accurately, didn’t work? Or did he know, and just flat-out lie?

That’s a rhetorical question. Of course he lied. That is all that he has ever done is lie. He lied about himself, about his past, about his work history, about his time in politics, about Obamacare, about Obamacare, about Obamacare, about Bush, about McCain, about Romney, about Republicans, about the debt and deficit and basically about everything else. In fact, I would be astounded to hear any truth come out of that man’s mouth ever.

Theophile on November 4, 2013 at 6:20 PM

“did he know, and just flat-out lie?”

Let me about that … he lied

Jimbobby on November 5, 2013 at 3:27 AM