Steny Hoyer admits: We knew that not everyone would be able to keep their plan; Update: 13 more liars

posted at 1:21 pm on October 29, 2013 by Allahpundit

This is the same guy, remember, who wants to throw more money at the ObamaCare website even though he says he’s not sure that would actually help.

I wonder what his “solution” to the insurance industry’s developing adverse-selection problem will be.

“We knew that there would be some policies that would not qualify and therefore people would be required to get more extensive coverage,” Hoyer said in response to a question from National Review.

Asked by another reporter how repeated statements by Obama to the contrary weren’t “misleading,” Hoyer said “I don’t think the message was wrong. I think the message was accurate. It was not precise enough…[it] should have been caveated with – ‘assuming you have a policy that in fact does do what the bill is designed to do.’”

Hoyer noted that people losing access to their current plans are mostly in the individual market, which is a small segment of the overall market.

No, it’s not that Obama wasn’t “precise enough.” Go watch this clip, which I linked yesterday. He lied outright, unequivocally, for years — including during the first debate with Romney last October. Hoyer himself repeated the same lie, without qualification, back in 2009. Here’s the question, though: Did Hoyer know just how many policies wouldn’t qualify under ObamaCare? The takeaway from yesterday’s NBC scoop isn’t that they knew all along that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” was a scam. That was baked in the cake from the beginning; some people would have to lose their plans so that they could be forced onto the exchanges, where they’d pay more for coverage in the name of subsidizing the sick and poor. The takeaway is that HHS wrote the regulations to make that problem worse than it otherwise might have been, by stipulating that any material change made by an insurance company to one of its plans rendered that plan non-grandfathered under the law and therefore illegal. They maximized the hit on the middle class. Did Hoyer know they were going to do that? Does he care that they did? He’d better figure it out, because the more of an uproar there is over people getting dropped, the more Ron Johnson’s new bill will start to look good to red-state Democrats in the Senate. Passing it might make the adverse-selection problem worse, not better, but desperate incumbents like Pryor and Begich might not care. At the very least, the pressure on them to relax some of HHS’s regs disqualifying formerly grandfathered plans will only grow more intense.

Now that the country knows “if you like your plan” is a bald-faced lie repeated ad nauseam by Democrats for years, it’s time to shift the goalposts. Shift one: Yes, it’s true that some people will lose their plan and pay more next year, but they’re getting more comprehensive coverage in return and that kinda sorta justifies taking away their choice. By the same logic, I guess, it’d be okay to force people to sell their cars and buy new ones with better safety features because, after all, they’re getting a benefit from the extra expense, even if they can’t comfortably afford it. The difference between ObamaCare and the car example, though, is that the car-buyer really would be the intended beneficiary of that program. Not so with O-Care. The point of forcing healthy middle-class people into more expensive plans isn’t that they’ll avail themselves of the extra coverage but that they likely won’t, which leaves lots of extra cash for the insurance company to apply towards covering the preexisting conditions of others. Since it’s done in the name of virtue, though, it’s supposedly okay. At the very least, I’d like to think that the car hypothetical would be sold to the public honestly, not with some “if you like your sh*tbox, you can keep it” lie.

Shift two: Some lefties want to treat “if you like your plan” as water under the bridge, a talking point that might not have been technically true in all cases but which there’s no sense dwelling on now. We’re all in the quicksand together at this point; we can stand here and point fingers about who lied or we can try to pull ourselves out. Jonah Goldberg responds:

Indeed, what is so infuriating to many of us is that is that now that it’s the law of the land, Obamacare supporters act as if all of the lies were no big deal and no serious person believed them anyway. But as anyone can tell you, if Obama had been honest about the trade-offs in his signature piece of legislation, it would never have become his signature piece of legislation. So please, don’t tell me the lies don’t matter…

I fail to see why Republicans should simply accept that the law is here to stay and get into wonky discussions about how to improve it at the margins at the exact moment the wheels are coming off the bus. The president and the Democrats lied us into a bad law. The right opposed the law on principle. A single party — the Democrats — own this law in a way that no party has had complete ownership of any major social legislation in a century. They bought this legislation with deceit and the GOP said so. Now that it is going into effect, the facts on the ground are confirming that deceit. Moreover, the same haughty condescending bureaucrats and politicians who told us they were smart enough and tech-savvy enough to do just about anything are being exposed as incompetent political hacks. And this is the moment when Sargent thinks the GOP should simply throw in the towel and work with the Democrats to make Obamacare bipartisan?

It’s been said before that one of the big novelties of ObamaCare is that momentous, paradigm-shifting legislation typically doesn’t pass along strict party lines. Sometimes a robust bipartisan consensus forms in Congress, sometimes a less robust one does, but both parties to a greater or lesser degree buy in and go forward together in trying to make the law work. That didn’t happen this time. Democrats made a cold calculation: They had the numbers in Congress to do this and they were going to do it, even if that meant lying repeatedly to the public about the cost and consequences, even if it meant forfeiting a majority in the House for the next decade. This is what they wanted and now they’ve got it, and they can’t stand it. Enjoy.

Update: A useful little BuzzFeed-esque featurette from the NRSC.


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Over for Schadenfreude.

Bmore on October 29, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Actually that should read.

Not Over For Schadenfreude. Can I get a do over? No?

Bmore on October 29, 2013 at 6:14 PM

man it sure seems to be troll free lately doesn’t it?

DanMan on October 29, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Obama lied and the trolls died.

trigon on October 29, 2013 at 6:49 PM

troll free……..even with their lies they’d rather avoid this one.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 29, 2013 at 7:00 PM

I fail to see why Republicans should simply accept that the law is here to stay and get into wonky discussions about how to improve it at the margins at the exact moment the wheels are coming off the bus.

That is the only statement by Jonah Goldberg worth quoting. His article defers & quotes a Greg Sargent, who appears to be a left wing tool. Sargent says “It wasn’t sufficient to say people who like their plans will be able to keep it, which is narrowly untrue.”

narrowly untrue? How much is “narrowly”, idiot? 2-3 times the annual premium of this Obamacare? Double or more of the annual deductibles?

bluefox on October 29, 2013 at 7:01 PM

This is how copper wire was invented….two “progressives” fighting over someone else’s penny.

Bevan on October 29, 2013 at 1:30 PM

That’s funny:-)

bluefox on October 29, 2013 at 7:07 PM

Hoyer’s definition of imprecise: Obama actually meant to say, “If I like your insurance plan, you can keep it.”

Barnestormer on October 29, 2013 at 7:10 PM

Democrats made a cold calculation: They had the numbers in Congress to do this and they were going to do it, even if that meant lying repeatedly to the public about the cost and consequences, even if it meant forfeiting a majority in the House for the next decade. This is what they wanted and now they’ve got it, and they can’t stand it. Enjoy.

If I read this correctly, you said that AP. I agree!!

Why do I get a feeling that this Ron Johnson is a Republican and he’s going to rescue Obama & the Democrats that passed this abomination? I haven’t read anything on him or his plan but from what you (AP) mentioned up top.

bluefox on October 29, 2013 at 7:11 PM

you will also be paying for a possible and likely bailout of the health insurers in the form of higher taxes.

http://www.conservativeintel.com/2013/10/25/now-we-find-out-whats-in-it-obamacares-taxpayer-bailout-for-health-insurers/

can_con on October 29, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Just read that, along with the comments. It just gets worse, day by day.

Always a good idea to re-post things, as I’m sure many of us can’t read every thread. I hadn’t seen your link either, so thanks. The more we know, the more we can send to the National website that Senator Cruz set up to receive stories.

http://www.jobsgrowth.org/stories/

bluefox on October 29, 2013 at 7:37 PM

He’s only lying when his lips are moving.

kingsjester on October 29, 2013 at 1:42 PM

Sad, but true. Proverbs 29:12 has been on my mind for a few days.

bluefox on October 29, 2013 at 7:43 PM

man it sure seems to be troll free lately doesn’t it?

DanMan on October 29, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Obama lied and the trolls died.

trigon on October 29, 2013 at 6:49 PM

….libfreeorgan….made an attempt…the other night…it was pretty weak!

KOOLAID2 on October 29, 2013 at 7:51 PM

The biggest problem is that they are allowed to vote…

mnjg on October 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM

I disagree. The biggest problem is that this Administration and the Democrats have no opposition. Those Congressmembers that allow this are just as guilty imo.

The Tea Party & Conservatives worked very hard across this Nation to take control of the House in 2010. And ever since then, the House has passed everything that Obama has wanted; with help from the Republicans in the Senate.

bluefox on October 29, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Wow. So, Joe Wilson was right. LIAR!!

socalcon on October 29, 2013 at 8:33 PM

All of us?

Resist We Much on October 29, 2013 at 1:56 PM

RWM to head the ‘lawyer death panel’.

socalcon on October 29, 2013 at 8:48 PM

“It was not precise enough…[it] should have been caveated with – ‘assuming you have a policy that in fact does do what the bill is designed to do.’”

Kind of like how in lib speak The Second Amendment really is intended to mean “of course by ‘right of the people’ you mean not the people at all but the military, police forces and celebrity bodyguards.”

Nuance. It’s a thing.

RDuke on October 29, 2013 at 9:09 PM

If the Democrats get away with this, and I mean if they do not suffer immediate consequences, this will become part of the plan for passing legislation in the future. I believe we need to know who knew what and when. If we find that Democrats knew, before they Rahmned this through, they were lying about it, I firmly believe that states that allow it, should recall the responsible legislators. I know that sounds like another fight you can’t win, but I also believe that any legislator, who lies about a piece of legislation this important, should be held responsible for that lie.

You can bet, if this were Republicans, not only would the Democrats be doing the recalling, but their MSM minions would be helping them. It’s time to hold all of them responsible and I hope the Republicans do the research necessary to start the ball rolling on this.

bflat879 on October 29, 2013 at 9:26 PM

. By the same logic, I guess, it’d be okay to force people to sell their cars and buy new ones with better safety features because, after all, they’re getting a benefit from the extra expense, even if they can’t comfortably afford it. 

More like they have to upgrade to a passenger van in order to pick up carpoolers on the way to and from work and the subsidy helps pay the gas and maintenance but you lost the freedom to come and go and make side trips as you have to drive a set route at a set time.

People always forget that free $$ from the govt always comes with strings. Just because certain strings aren’t attached now doesn’t mean that they won’t be later on

AH_C on October 29, 2013 at 10:23 PM

People always forget that free $$ from the govt always comes with strings. Just because certain strings aren’t attached now doesn’t mean that they won’t be later on

AH_C on October 29, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Well, many forget that the $ comes from our pockets. What a different world it would be if they had to spend their OWN money!
Talk about a reduction in spending, LOL

bluefox on October 29, 2013 at 11:07 PM

I’ve been an HR Benefits consultant for 20 years and a Benefits manager prior to that at a F-100.

Grandfathering means grandfathering. The plan can not be changed. No new enrollments are accepted but current enrollees can remain in the plan, or an IDENTICAL plan is provided.

Anything else, including making the plans coverage or levels of coverage ‘illegal’ is not grandfathering. That is forcing the plan out of existence.

The government effectively shut the plans in question down through ACA. These plans were never grandfathered. The insurance carriers should of been notified that any such plans in existence were EXEMPT from the ACA.

Just wait until the employer mandate takes effect for plan year 2015. Employers will be racing to their carriers to dump employees onto the exchanges, pay the penalties, and NOT give the employees pay increases that will cover the enrollees portion of the new premium.

zdpl0a on October 30, 2013 at 7:05 AM

I wonder how many people LOST their insurance when Obama added the DEMAND of FREE contraceptives to every health insurance plan in the country?

Sandra Fluke is the poster child of this perversion for those people!

Freddy on October 29, 2013 at 1:45 PM

Actually Freddy, it was catch-22, if your policy doesn’t comply, it is not grandfathered, and if your plan added the copay free contraception, then the “made a change in the plan” after February 2010 and so they were not grandfathered in. Any insurance company that fiddled with your benefit, or if the price went up since then is not grandfathered.

You had to have your Senators or your Governor get an exception for your group. Gov. Cuomo got WAIVERS for small industry plans in NY. They can keep their insurance.

It is all about special favors with this president.

Fleuries on October 30, 2013 at 7:47 AM

I fail to understand why any sensible person would expect the GOP to now roll over & try and rescue Obamacare. The Right didn’t support it when it was developed and shoved down the throats of the nation so it seems now is the time to lead back and let it fail. Working to overturn an existing law is not forbidden.

katiejane on October 30, 2013 at 7:48 AM

Only thirteen?

TimBuk3 on October 30, 2013 at 8:00 AM

L*I*A*R*S!

At least they are admitting now that they freed themselves from the shackles of the titles of ‘servants of the people’ in exchange for their long-desired titles of ‘Tyrants’ & ‘MASTERS’ of the people.

They continue to demonstrate their beliefe that they are more intelligent than you, know better what is best for you, know how to spend your money better than you, and for their craddle-to-grave care and feedig of you they deserve to live like kings and queens while being exempt from the laws you are forced to obey.

America once went to war to free itself from such pompous, arrogant, greedy, selfish, Tyrannical, oppressive rulers…

IT IS TIME AGAIN TO WAGE ‘WAR’ & RID OURSELVES OF THESE SLEF-APPOINTED KINGS!

easyt65 on October 30, 2013 at 8:15 AM

Comment pages: 1 2