June 2010: HHS predicted “most” of 17 million people would have plans change

posted at 2:01 pm on October 29, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

This little tidbit comes to us via our old friend Morgen Richmond, who used the Wayback Machine to peruse the old Healthreform.gov FAQ about ObamaCare from June 2010.  After NBC’s scoop last night that the White House knew three years ago that ObamaCare would force the withdrawal of millions of insurance plans, Morgen took a look back at promises made — and found estimates that should have warned people all along that the President’s promise was worthless.

For instance, here’s the first Q&A on the site from June 18, 2010:

Q: What effect will the new rule have on my health coverage?

A: The new rule will allow you to keep your current coverage if you like it and still benefit from many of the new consumer protections in the Affordable Care Act, such as a ban on your insurance being terminated just because you get sick and had made an unintentional mistake on your forms.

If your current plan significantly reduces your benefits or increases your out-of-pocket spending above what it was when the new law was enacted, then your plan will lose its “grandfather” status and you will gain additional new benefits under the Act.  In the individual market, people change plans more frequently than those insured through employer plans.  As such, most of the 17 million people who purchase in the individual market will likely gain all the new protections in the Affordable Care Act in the near term. [emphasis mine]

“Likely gain all the new protections” means that their plans will change, and that the grandfathering won’t actually protect anyone. Grandfathering, as you’ll read later from an insurance broker, requires plans to remain static, both in coverage and in membership.  As Morgen noted, this didn’t just impact the “bare bones” plans, but nearly all of the plans in the individual market, as the HHS site predicted:

Also, the White House would shortly decide to rewrite the grandfathering regulation to make this false.  Five days later, the White House itself claimed that it was protecting that feature and keeping Obama’s promise:

Another important step we’ve taken is to fulfill President Obama’s promise that “if you like your health plan, you can keep it.”  Last week, Secretary Sebelius and Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis announced a new rule that protects the ability of individuals and businesses to keep their current plan.  It outlines conditions under which current plans can be ‘grandfathered’ into the system, minimizing market disruption and putting us all on the path toward the competitive, patient-centered market of the future.  By providing the stability and flexibility that families and businesses need, Americans will be able to make the choices that work best for them.

One month later, as NBC reported, the Obama administration acted in exactly the opposite direction:

Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

Here’s a bigger whopper from that same FAQ:

Q: Will this new insurance regulation drive up my health insurance costs?

A: No.  The grandfather rule is designed to preserve the ability of Americans to keep their current plan if they like it, while providing new benefits.  Other provisions of the Affordable Care Act aim to make health insurance premiums more affordable.  For example, the Act gives the Secretary of Health and Human Services the authority to publicly post on the Web the proportion of premium dollars that an insurer spends on medical care as opposed to marketing or profits.  If an insurer spends too much on salaries and other expenses not directly related to care, it will have to give its customers a rebate.  The new law also helps states monitor and crack down on unreasonable premium increases by insurers.  The Administration recently announced a new grant program to strengthen states’ ability to spot unreasonable premium increases and take action against them.

Actually, the “grandfathering” protection got negated when the plans changed, which means that most of the plans offered in the individual marketplace wouldn’t be grandfathered at all — which the White House well knew. What went into the “grandfathering” rule? An insurance broker who wishes to remain anonymous explained it to me in an e-mail, along with a description of how the ACA will hammer his personal finances:

To show you how this law ruins availability for both grandfathered and non (my plan is not grandfathered), I have (had) a plan that excludes maternity (had surgery to make sure that was a risk worth taking), excludes coverage for mental health and substance abuse treatment (self-insuring against an unlikely event) , does not provide dental coverage for my kids (again, managed with a savings account because most dental bills are not massive and unforeseen) and has a good network of local and specialty facilities, but it did not include the Mayo Clinic as an in-network facility.

My premium for a family of 5 this month is $743.50 (2 adults, 3 kids under 18). My insurance company chose to modify existing plans to meet the new ACA requirements as opposed to cancelling them, or you have the option to move to another plan that was designed around the ACA. Thanks to this bill, the plan I have now has to include maternity, has to include mental health/substance abuse coverage, and pediatric dental (which covers next to nothing until you meet your huge deductible. I also have to move to a network that includes the Mayo Clinic because my network is being eliminated.

Allowing my plan to continue with modifications is going to add over $421 a month to the premium, which is a 56% rate increase over this year. All because of services I don’t want and networks I can’t use.

So, to make it work, I’m being forced to raise my deductible from $3,000 per person to a shared family deductible of $10,400. Since it’s very unlikely we’ll have two people in the hospital in one year, my exposure is up by roughly double. My current plan also has 3 office visit co-pays and some prescription coverage for generics, which will all now have to go to deductible before coverage applies.

That brings my renewal down from $1,164 to $843, a 13.5% rate hike for a whole lot shittier coverage.

People need to start asking questions about the grandfathered plans too; they are exempt from meeting the new requirements, but they were also quarantined into their own risk pool. That means no new membership to refresh their overall health, and their premium pool just got significantly smaller. So if you like your plan, you can keep it if you’re independently wealthy. The new law will see fit to their rapid extinction.

Listening to everyone talk about the website and how lousy it is would be akin to talking about how this pill that’s going to destroy my internal organs is kind of hard to swallow.

Indeed.  The aim all along was to wipe out almost all of the plans on the individual market for the one-size-fits-all approach favored by the central planners, and we’re all going to end up eating the cost for it in higher costs, federal entitlement spending, and reduced access.


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Glad to see this thread
Ed

It is now officially the

404 ObamaAdministration

Schadenfreude on October 29, 2013 at 2:04 PM

1. The NSA

2. Syria

3. obamaGlitch, just the beginning.

How schadenfreudig it really is!!!

Schadenfreude on October 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM

‘Actually, ANY insurance that you currently have would be grandfathered in so you could keep it. So you could decide not to get in the exchange the better plan. I could keep my Acme Insurance, just a high deductible catastrophic plan. I would not be required to get the better one.’

- President Barack Obama, 25 February 2010

Obama lied.

Plans died.

Rostenkowski time is a’coming.

Resist We Much on October 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM

When did the Commie pigs lose their Memory Hole funding?

OhEssYouCowboys on October 29, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Obama lied.

Plans died.

Rostenkowski time is a’coming.

Resist We Much on October 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM

Indeed…next

Patients died

…’xactly what obama wants.

Pelosi is now for universal child care on your dole…and Europe moves right.

America is the laughing stock of the world, as she s/b. Free stupid people deserve whom they brought/kept.

Schadenfreude on October 29, 2013 at 2:10 PM

Hello congressional committee?
Here are your questions for Kathleen on Thursday

cmsinaz on October 29, 2013 at 2:11 PM

What’s the free market plan to replace this collapsed system?

AeroSpear on October 29, 2013 at 2:12 PM

So, Cruz was right all along…?

d1carter on October 29, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Amazing so many of us that simply want economic reality to be a guiding principal of how to run the nation are vilified as racist, backwoods, homophobic, women hating morons because we can sniff out political lies like a bloodhound and call them out when we hear them.

Joe Wilson 2016

DanMan on October 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM

So we no longer have trolls (at least for the time being)
because even they can’t bring themselves to defend the
biggrest Fu*kig LIARS the country has ever produced in
the Government Sector??

ToddPA on October 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM

OT - America today

Schadenfreude on October 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Well, apparently that radical Ted Cruz got the GOP time machine and went back to hack into some FAQs!

Or maybe, just maybe, some of us who saw this trainwreck for what it is feel a little vindicated this week.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM

If most of those 17 million are actually angry about this, they can dramatically swing elections by voting the mendacious progressives who foisted this EpicClusterFark on them out of office.

This is by design by those who hold you in utter and complete contempt. Why reward their contempt, their lies, and their hubris?

Oh, and this isn’t the first shoe to drop – many more millions are going to get similar treatment when the employer’s mandate takes effect a year from now.

Athos on October 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Wasn’t it Johnny Mc that dressed down Joe Wilson and Ted Cruz on the US Senate floor..?

d1carter on October 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM

What a funny little man that Johnny Mc is….

d1carter on October 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Who cares if a bunch of crackers lose their coverage. ICE has been directed to not use Obamacare enrollment as a immigration status detection tool; now Ernesto can enroll for Medicaid through Obamacare. You racists should be happy to pay for 12 million new enrollees.

Or was it 20 million?

/doom

M240H on October 29, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Will someone with contacts in the industry please check into how many of the employer-based plans not yet subject to regulation will also be affected? I’d be interested to learn if the individual market isn’t the only shoe to drop.

BKeyser on October 29, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Is this America?

d1carter on October 29, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Keep voting democrat!

Murphy9 on October 29, 2013 at 2:17 PM

The same thing is going to happen in the group market when groups renew plans in 2014. The old plans will not be renewed because they do not comply with HCR and companies will have to pick more expensive plans than what they had in the past. No one seems to be talking about this YET. Many companies are renewing on 12/1/13 to kick the can down the road for 11 months. For those renewing on 1/1/14 and after, big sticker shock is coming and the reality that their old plan is gone if ti does not comply.

USBB on October 29, 2013 at 2:18 PM

Is this America?

d1carter on October 29, 2013 at 2:16 PM

No. Our America died a slow, inglorious, cowardly death.

With softness.

Meekly.

OhEssYouCowboys on October 29, 2013 at 2:18 PM

OT – America today

Schadenfreude on October 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM

students expressed concerns “about cultural appropriation and the need to respect marginalized cultures.”

A halloween party with a bunch of idiots who worry about the need to respect marginalized cultures……. Yeah, that’s going to be a fun crowd to party with. I can easily see the monitors to ensure that the costumes are not offensive to “marginalized cultures.”

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:20 PM

the best thing about all this is it seems to have hit the liberals

as well as the rest of us that buy plans on the individual market.

I guess a lot of columnists/talking heads/bloggers are independent contractors who buy their own health insurance.

Who knew!

gerrym51 on October 29, 2013 at 2:21 PM

How does it feel Libs for your “no new taxes–G HW Bush” moment? Sweet revenge!

hillsoftx on October 29, 2013 at 2:23 PM

404 ObamaAdministration

Schadenfreude on October 29, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Scary actually, if you think about it.

He used to be just plain Zero… but now he’s using The Fours.

Gingotts on October 29, 2013 at 2:24 PM

‘Toons of the Day: ‘Dem Party Is F*cked. We Own This.’

Resist We Much on October 29, 2013 at 2:19 PM

2010: Dems made sure everybody knew that they own Obamacare.

2014: Dems, unable to blame shift to GWB have resorted to other methods to distance themselves from Obamacare, which bears the name of their leader. Most notably, it is the ACA again.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:24 PM

OT – America today

Schadenfreude on October 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Brainfree would be proud.

NotCoach on October 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM

He used to be just plain Zero… but now he’s using The Fours.

Gingotts on October 29, 2013 at 2:24 PM

404

Think of it as a political emoticon. Obama with the ears appropriately sized.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:26 PM

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:20 PM

I love the “cultural appropriation” phrase. What’s next in the “cultural appropriation” wars? A ban on blacks marrying whites lest their half white kids appropriate culture that isn’t theirs?

NotCoach on October 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Coming soon: It’s those evil insurance companies..!

d1carter on October 29, 2013 at 2:28 PM

‘Toons of the Day: ‘Dem Party Is F*cked. We Own This.’

Resist We Much on October 29, 2013 at 2:19 PM

Of course you are correct RWM, but add in the impending bailout, on top of Exchange premium increases in 2015 and there will be a lot of unhappy liberals in the land.

You can pay me now….and you can pay me later:

http://www.conservativeintel.com/2013/10/25/now-we-find-out-whats-in-it-obamacares-taxpayer-bailout-for-health-insurers/

can_con on October 29, 2013 at 2:29 PM

I guess a lot of columnists/talking heads/bloggers are independent contractors who buy their own health insurance.

Who knew!

gerrym51 on October 29, 2013 at 2:21 PM

I shouldn’t be so happy about it but the most fun this week has been the true shock and disbelief from Obama supporters about just what Obamacare is doing to them.

I don’t recall a single individual out there gloating about what a good deal they got by signing up for Obamacare.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:29 PM

I love the “cultural appropriation” phrase. What’s next in the “cultural appropriation” wars? A ban on blacks marrying whites lest their half white kids appropriate culture that isn’t theirs?

NotCoach on October 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Well, that is how you end up with stupid people in the Presidency.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:32 PM

Expect the economy to get ugly early next year as consumer spending comes to a halt (except for healthcare premiums and deductibles).

And in one way this could be good for hospitals. They will be demanding payment in advance given the existence of large deductibles. Making their expense of pursuing payment far less.

Seems like a reasonable stock picking play for 2014 as everything else in the consumer spending realm tanks.

Carnac on October 29, 2013 at 2:32 PM

Alert: Something odd is happening in Carney’s press briefing…

Journalists are actually asking hard questions. I’m shocked.

faraway on October 29, 2013 at 2:32 PM

404

Think of it as a political emoticon. Obama with the ears appropriately sized.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:26 PM

Thanks for the laugh, HN.

OhEssYouCowboys on October 29, 2013 at 2:34 PM

bayam! Come out and play…

Del Dolemonte on October 29, 2013 at 2:36 PM

Alert: Something odd is happening in Carney’s press briefing…

Journalists are actually asking hard questions. I’m shocked.

faraway on October 29, 2013 at 2:32 PM

They smell blood in the water. And an implosion of Obamacare that would be professional Sepuku for them to ignore anymore (after three years of doing just that). Throw in that Europe is mad at us for spying on them, the Middle East in flames, the Benghazi lies finally being discussed by the MSM……….

Wonder who gets the WaPo’s worst week in Washington recognition this week.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Dear Barack and friends:

Please go back to Chicago and leave us alone.

Sincerely not yours,

Stefano1

stefano1 on October 29, 2013 at 2:39 PM

If Hussein was so unhappy with the health insurance market and whatever they were doing ,
why didn’t he build up ( like from “ground up” as we say ) a new health insurance company which did everything he wanted ? Shouldn’t that have been easier? Then , if he had a good product, it would have sold and other people from other insureres would have flocked to it too, forcing other insurance companies to compete with his model.
Why TF did he have to break every existing and working thing ?
Unless his intent was malicious from the beginning ?

burrata on October 29, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Expect the economy to get ugly early next year as consumer spending comes to a halt (except for healthcare premiums and deductibles).

Carnac on October 29, 2013 at 2:32 PM

You forgot the part about zero job growth outside of part-time employment.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Alert: Something odd is happening in Carney’s press briefing…

Journalists are actually asking hard questions. I’m shocked.

faraway on October 29, 2013 at 2:32 PM

They got cancellation notices and thought they had waivers…

d1carter on October 29, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Lies.

Damn lies…

…and then…

#!&(%$#@motherf&*%$ng lies.

So, who’s surprised by this clusterfark?

I, for one, saw it coming a mile away.

It was meant to fail, and guess who’ll jump in to “fix” the mess?

It goes without saying.

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 2:41 PM

They got cancellation notices and thought they had waivers…

d1carter on October 29, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Sort of like a neighbor kid that considers himself part of your family suddenly realizing that he really isn’t.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

Commenters above are pointing out that this is not just about the individual insurance market. If the same rules are going to apply to all those on employer provided plans, then there are going to be a hell of a lot more than 17 million angry people in this country.

The question then will be how that anger gets directed. The rational thing would be to vote for those who want to undo the damage. But large groups of stupid people can’t really be counted on to do the rational thing. It’s going to be a battle to turn this nation away from single payer even when the crisis is caused by Obamacare.

TexasDan on October 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

This is not news: obama is a pathological liar who hates America and Americans, and he has slightly more than 3 years left to destroy it.

GaltBlvnAtty on October 29, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Alert: Something odd is happening in Carney’s press briefing…

Journalists are actually asking hard questions. I’m shocked.

faraway on October 29, 2013 at 2:32 PM

They want to score another off-the-record meeting with their diety . Squeaky wheel and all that :O

burrata on October 29, 2013 at 2:43 PM

did he have to break every existing and working thing ?
Unless his intent was malicious from the beginning ?

burrata on October 29, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Keep in mind there are two distinctly different things in play here. Health insurance and health care. The goal of Obamacare has always been to break the health insurance industry and use wealth redistribution to fund more free “stuff” through government “reform” of the health care industry.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Now that we know the NSA is snooping on everything and everybody, we might as well hammer the last nails into our own coffins. It matters not.

This administration is the most anti-Constitutional, anti-American group of hypocrites ever to hold office bar none. (even including the contra-Constitutional thugs in FDR’s gang)

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 2:45 PM

It’s going to be a battle to turn this nation away from single payer even when the crisis is caused by Obamacare.

TexasDan on October 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

Harder still when the exchanges are up and running. Which is why Ted Cruz was right and the surrender weasels were wrong.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:46 PM

Thanks, Chicago.

For far worse than nothing.

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 2:48 PM

The question then will be how that anger gets directed. The rational thing would be to vote for those who want to undo the damage. But large groups of stupid people can’t really be counted on to do the rational thing. It’s going to be a battle to turn this nation away from toward single payer even when the crisis is caused by Obamacare.

TexasDan on October 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

Unless I have misinterpreted, I have fixed the original intent.

Yes, with Obama as President, the only option for the 2014 electorate will be to replace O-care with single payer.

That will be the MSM push and that is why everyone that thinks the MSM has suddenly been awakened are fools.

This was and is THE PLAN.

Carnac on October 29, 2013 at 2:52 PM

By the way, if you own a company or care about your company and your benefits and your costs, you need to inquire to make sure your agent has done an early renewal on your plan with an effective date of 12/1/13 or sooner. I am working on proposals for two clients today to get them taken care of before the end of the year. I can’t stop what is happening, but I can delay the impact by 11 months by doing this for my clients. It at least gives us a few months to figure out where to land. All plans must comply with HRC unless you have had the same plan with NO benefit changes since before the law was passed and your carrier is still active in your market. If your carrier pulled out like CCP did here in SC, you have lost your grandfather status.

USBB on October 29, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Keep in mind there are two distinctly different things in play here. Health insurance and health care. The goal of Obamacare has always been to break the health insurance industry and use wealth redistribution to fund more free “stuff” through government “reform” of the health care industry.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:45 PM

I think Hussein will drop these ” poor” people as soon as he has no more use for them, he is just humoring them for the time being because they are stupid .
Husseins have a track record in healthcare too , specially the Mooch . Afterall , she was the royal patient-dumper for Sh!^cago , and she brought her expertise to the job as the chief enforcer of jiziahCAIR.

burrata on October 29, 2013 at 2:54 PM

I, for one, just CAN’T wait for that cost curve to start bending downward. I’m certain it’s gonna break loose any time now….

….

~~~~waiting with bated breath~~~~

It would almost be funny were it not so damned tragic.

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 2:55 PM

bayam! Come out and play…

Del Dolemonte on October 29, 2013 at 2:36 PM

Dayam, dude.

Tee hee hee.

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 2:57 PM

404

Think of it as a political emoticon. Obama with the ears appropriately sized.

Happy Nomad on October 29, 2013 at 2:26 PM

LOL!

Gingotts on October 29, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Lean Forward, you effers, right into the abyss.

Thanks, libs, thanks for electing a dude based on his melanin content.

Bishop on October 29, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Two items from Ace:

- For several hours, the White House was successful in getting NBC to spike the biggest part of the story – that HHS immediately wrote the regulations to ensure that any significant change in the “grandfathered” individual insurance plans would result in the loss of the “grandfathering” and thus mass cancellations.

- HHS wrote said regulations specifically to eliminate the “grandfathering” of as many individual insurance plans as possible, and ultimately all of them.

Steve Eggleston on October 29, 2013 at 3:10 PM


Lean Forward, you effers, right into the abyss.

Thanks, libs, thanks for electing a dude based on his melanin content.

Bishop on October 29, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Worth repeating. As ever, thanks Bishop.

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 3:12 PM

Lean Forward, you effers, right into the abyss.

Thanks, libs, thanks for electing a dude based on his melanin content.

Bishop on October 29, 2013 at 3:07 PM

You give them too little credit – they also elected him based on his Maoist background.

Steve Eggleston on October 29, 2013 at 3:13 PM

I wonder how the NYT is gonna spin the exponential increase in insurance costs over the next few years…

Oh wait… I know this one. They’ll lie some more, most likely.

SHOCKED, I AM.

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 3:15 PM

….and still the drumbeat goes on against the awful Tea-Partiers, who obviously are anti-American because they want our Constitution to be in force.

Duh.

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 3:18 PM

I just can’t wait for Jugeared Jesus to get on prime-time TV to tell us how great this shizzle is and what a wonderful product it’ll turn out to be and how fricking hot shit it is that 26 year old bums are now allowed to sponge off of the rest of us and blah blah blah…

Can’t wait (to get stinking drunk and cuss like a sailor).

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 3:22 PM

What we really need are more libs in the teaching profession. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

~~~~muttering and swearing incoherently~~~~

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Strange how quiet the trolls have become. They must be out trying to hump somebody else’s leg.

GrannyDee on October 29, 2013 at 3:46 PM

Folks this is just plain communism on the march.

Obama and his people will never tell the truth.

They want to play what every resistance is left and will eventually
slam the door until there is no way out.

They will “use” the Constitution in their favor until they have ripped it up.

Eventually Obama will write a new Constitution and by then he will
have the military so tamed and weak that there will only be pockets
of resistance left that will be dealt with by his new militia.

redguy on October 29, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Can we RICO these people?

Another Drew on October 29, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Strange how quiet the trolls have become. They must be out trying to hump somebody else’s leg.

GrannyDee on October 29, 2013 at 3:46 PM

They have done there job on the internet.

Obama is giving them marching orders.

Coming soon to your neighborhood.

redguy on October 29, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Can we RICO these people?

Another Drew on October 29, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Not while Eric Holder is breathing.

redguy on October 29, 2013 at 3:55 PM

Not while Eric Holder is breathing.

redguy on October 29, 2013 at 3:55 PM

If the dude is breathing, then why isn’t the EPA going after him for polluting our environment and raising the sea level???

CO2 is a pollutant, doncha know?

hillbillyjim on October 29, 2013 at 4:00 PM

What’s the free market plan to replace this collapsed system? AeroSpear on October 29, 2013 at 2:12 PM

Keep government at all levels as far away as is humanly possible from health care of any kind.

Akzed on October 29, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Strange how quiet the trolls have become. They must be out trying to hump somebody else’s leg.

it’s amazing how we denounce trolls then constantly talk about the lack of trolls.

gerrym51 on October 29, 2013 at 4:46 PM

bayam! Come out and play…

Del Dolemonte on October 29, 2013 at 2:36 PM

Silence is deafening…….

itsspideyman on October 29, 2013 at 4:54 PM