“Walking Dead” grumble thread: Down with the sickness

posted at 9:21 pm on October 28, 2013 by Allahpundit

To cleanse the palate, can’t be too grumbly about this one given how strongly the season’s started. It was a small letdown, but it had to be: It was interstitial. The plague story arc needs to play out over multiple episodes or else it’s not worth doing, which means, unless they’re willing to kill off a major character each week from zombie pneumonia (fingers crossed!), we’re destined for a few slow suspense-building “things are getting worse” episodes where nothing much happens. Give ‘em credit for one thing, though: Somehow they figured out a way to make the most docile, least interesting member of the original crew intriguing and even menacing.

Carol has a lot going on this season. This is a person who has taken her pain and everything she’s lived through and turned it into this pragmatic life she’s trying to live now. With training these kids, every moment of her life now is about protecting her loved ones and trying to make sure a Sophia never happens to her again in any aspect of her life. In her making this decision and deciding to go through with this horrific act — and it’s something she’s thought long and hard about and has decided that it’s something that definitely needs to be done — being aware of the repercussions that can come from that is part of that. She’s very prepared and capable of whatever can come from this, and she’s ready for it. This is something that really illustrates the evolution of this character and how much of a different person she is now.

Carol’s the only member of the original cast whose character seems to have actually developed. Everyone else is an archetype who’s been running in place except for Rick, whose own “character” is really just a weekly exercise in “decent man tries to resist temptation to ruthlessness” storytelling. Carol, though, does seem to have changed, and not ostentatiously the way Rick or Shane tend/tended to melt down under stress. She doesn’t seem docile anymore so much as very tightly wound, which introduces a surprisingly unpredictable element into a predictable crew. Just one question, though: If she thought Karen and the other guy were so threatening to the prison (and specifically to the children) by dint of their illness that she had to kill and incinerate them, why isn’t she on a rampage killing everyone in quarantine? Did she believe, maybe, that by killing Karen and the other guy quickly she could stop the plague from spreading?

Anyway, other notes. One: The action set piece at the end was fine but felt like a lost opportunity. They get surrounded in a car by the mother of all zombie hordes and … get away relatively easily thanks to a few sword chops and crossbow firings? C’mon. Two: I like Tyreese, but the “big guy struggling with rage and grief” overacting was hard to take after awhile. Here’s to a short bereavement period. Three: Nothing against Glenn, but he’s been dead weight for awhile. The “love among the ruins” storyline with Maggie isn’t so interesting that it should spare him from the writers’ periodic major-character ritual sacrifice. If Daryl and the gang make it back in the nick of time with antibiotics to save him, it’s going to feel lame. Watching Maggie cope with his death would be more interesting than watching a newly healed Glenn float through the rest of the zombie apocalypse, I promise.


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What? No Homeland? Dana is still alive!!!11!!!!

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:26 PM

I always thought Michonne would get together with Rick. But now I think she will hook up with Darryl.

Brat on October 28, 2013 at 9:28 PM

They’re turning Carol into the new Andrea.

And….she’s gone.

sentinelrules on October 28, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Judging by the copious blood trails, they were still alive when they were dragged outside.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:30 PM

And if Carol was going to kill them, wouldn’t she stab them in the head in their weaken state?

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:31 PM

And if Carol was going to kill them, wouldn’t she stab them in the head in their weaken state?

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:31 PM

Maybe she did, we don’t know how they were killed

The Notorious G.O.P on October 28, 2013 at 9:45 PM

How many of you figured out it was Carol before she confessed? I figured it out about half way through last night. She’s been getting too much screen time lately, and when the black guy said she’s so nice, I knew it was her.

xblade on October 28, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Maybe she did, we don’t know how they were killed

The Notorious G.O.P on October 28, 2013 at 9:45 PM

Except the blood trails tells me they weren’t stabbed in the head and were still alive and bleeding when they were dragged out.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Carol, though, does seem to have changed, and not ostentatiously the way Rick or Shane tend/tended to melt down under stress. She doesn’t seem docile anymore so much as very tightly wound, which introduces a surprisingly unpredictable element into a predictable crew.

That and remember how she cheerfully counseled Andrea to kill the Gov in his sleep after s&x?

There’s been some chatter about how she might be covering for the young girl that is “messed up” and might have been feeding the rats to the walkers. If that’s the case, it will be interesting to see how they spin it.

Interesting suicidal feeling throughout the episode – people taking chances and being a little reckless.

kim roy on October 28, 2013 at 9:53 PM

I think you’re right, kim roy. It’s one of the little psychos. But I think it is the youngest one.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:56 PM

I think you’re right, kim roy. It’s one of the little psychos. But I think it is the youngest one.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:56 PM

You think so? Trying to spin it on big sister? They made a point to show the bloody hand, but I didn’t catch how small it was.

Either way, it’s an interesting spin on Carol as she’ll now be even more wound up.

kim roy on October 28, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Maybe she did, we don’t know how they were killed

The Notorious G.O.P on October 28, 2013 at 9:45 PM

Notorious…do you happen to post on tigerdroppings.com?

ClassicCon on October 28, 2013 at 10:01 PM

You think so? Trying to spin it on big sister? They made a point to show the bloody hand, but I didn’t catch how small it was.

Either way, it’s an interesting spin on Carol as she’ll now be even more wound up.

kim roy on October 28, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Then again, who dragged them outside? Carol would have made sure they were dead and not half dead before moving them and the girls look on the small side to be dragging two bodies.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 10:11 PM

I would be living on an island, not in a prison.

faraway on October 28, 2013 at 10:19 PM

There’s some zombie movie where they were hiding on Alcatraz — a prison and an island! But the zombies just walked on the ocean floor onto Alcatraz. When they tried to escape on boats, the zombies kept popping out of the water and grabbing them or swamping the boats. You’re never safe.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 10:41 PM

This episode really made me think that Clementine is the best character in the franchise, hands down.

Carol might be coming close, though.

mintycrys on October 28, 2013 at 10:54 PM

Aquazombies. Who knew?

faraway on October 28, 2013 at 10:54 PM

I could hide behind the Healthcare.coma website. That’s impenetrable.

faraway on October 28, 2013 at 10:55 PM

In room where Karen and David where there was a struggle with the broken cup, chair and book on the floor. I think they turned and Carol did not want to waste time and tell anyone so she did what must be done and just burned them. If Tyreese did not find them still smoking, Carol may have told the group that they turned before they where burned in a quest to stop the infection. He flew into the rage before anyone could tell them they turned. If they moved as burnt walkers it would have show that where killed but not with a knife to the brain. It does make a difference if one is killed before they turn but that difference is nill if they are hours from dying and they knew it.

They have to work out if the walkers will decay over time the longer the show goes or will they be just as fresh with near immortality in a walker state. They can stay active for years without eating.

tjexcite on October 28, 2013 at 11:15 PM

They have to work out if the walkers will decay over time the longer the show goes or will they be just as fresh with near immortality in a walker state. They can stay active for years without eating.

tjexcite on October 28, 2013 at 11:15 PM

The fact that walkers haven’t been eaten alive undead by scavengers/bacteria/whatever already stretches credulity.

Time to start showing them decompose more.

Othniel on October 29, 2013 at 12:11 AM

Watching the last two episodes all I can think about is; doesn’t anyone cover their mouth when they cough. Medical personnel should know the easy way to avoid spreading flu germs, cover your mouth and nose when you sneeze. The “healthy” people shouldn’t be the only ones wearing masks, the sick people need covering as well.

Zaire67 on October 29, 2013 at 12:14 AM

every time I see glenn I think “Here’s my grandpappy’s watch” kill him with HOLY FIRE!

tlynch001 on October 29, 2013 at 12:26 AM

There’s really no overtly bad, tough guy any more to easily pin the murders on, but as soon as I saw those burned bodies, I was like, “Maybe that was Carol.” Especially after the constant scenes of her teaching the kids, telling people to keep it a secret and telling that little girl she was weak(which made me laugh)!

Had to lead to something. I just figured it would lead to an argument with the parents, or Rick. But then, if it wasn’t shocking, Allah would have another nit to pick, “Oh, this week the characters talked to each other…….Booooooriiiiiing!”

Dongemaharu on October 29, 2013 at 1:26 AM

While it’s not as bad this week as it was last, can we agree that there should be no more lame democrats-are-zombies jokes?

Johnny 100 Pesos on October 29, 2013 at 1:47 AM

I said it on the last Walking Dead thread, but Carol is a cold fish. Who tells a couple of ten year old kids, within 30 minutes of seeing their dad die and get a knife in the head that they should just suck it up and get over it? That is cold. She herself had months to mourn her daughter, and Rick got months to mourn Lori, but all the two kids get is 30 minutes?

Carol’s the only member of the original cast whose character seems to have actually developed. Everyone else is an archetype who’s been running in place except

Other characters have changed, too.

Andrea went from suicidal and hopeless to a fighter.

Daryl went from constantly angry, in the shadow of his brother to his own man. And he’s more a part of the group now, not quite as angry with people. Still grumpy, yes, but not with the hostility. He’s more willing to open up to people and befriend them.

for Rick, whose own “character” is really just a weekly exercise in “decent man tries to resist temptation to ruthlessness” storytelling.

There’s nothing wrong with that.

The “love among the ruins” storyline with Maggie isn’t so interesting that it should spare him from the writers’ periodic major-character ritual sacrifice. If Daryl and the gang make it back in the nick of time with antibiotics to save him, it’s going to feel lame. Watching Maggie cope with his death would be more interesting than watching a newly healed Glenn float through the rest of the zombie apocalypse, I promise.

I actually agree with AP on this one.

I have found the Maggie and Glenn romance boring for a good, long while now.

Glenn was kind of interesting season 1/2, when he was the guy who would forage for supplies. It was interesting watch him come up with ways to weave in and out of cities and stuff to get supplies.

I always thought Michonne would get together with Rick. But now I think she will hook up with Darryl.

Brat on October 28, 2013 at 9:28 PM

No. Daryl should not be given a romantic partner at all, not with Michonne, not with anyone.

You most usually see the “Caryl” fanatics cheering for Daryl to pair up with Carol.

Setting Daryl up with anyone would ruin the character.

Judging by the copious blood trails, they were still alive when they were dragged outside.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:30 PM

I wondered about that.

They didn’t make it clear if Karen and David were dead first and then Carol set them on fire, or if they were still alive and she killed them then set the bodies on fire.

But Rick did ask her if she killed them – not just set the bodies on fire, so I guess they were still alive.

She is one cold, creepy gal.

I hope the billions of “Caryl” fanatics online realize now more than ever that Carol has a screw loose and should not be paired up with Daryl.

Though I did see one ‘Caryl-ite’ post, even after that disturbing “Yes, Rick, I did kill those two people” confession by Carol episode, “Oh at last, Carol gets fight and kill scenes!”

You really want a cold, hard serial killer like Carol hooking up with Daryl, who is basically a decent guy?

As much as I like Sheriff Rick, even Daryl has (so far) demonstrated more a solid moral compass than Rick.

Sheriff Rick has shot people out of the blue (two guys in bar just on suspicion they might shoot), he was more than willing to hang that Randall kid with no hard proof Randall was going to do any wrong, he just pounded Ty’s face in past his due, Rick just drove past orange back pack guy who kept screaming, “Hey help me, please stop.”

In some ways Rick’s actions are understandable, but Daryl has really not done too many questionable moral things… if anything, he’s been more the hero, putting his life on the line to save strangers like the Hispanic family on the bridge, looking for that Sophia kid, etc.

Another weird thing about Carol. The scene where she goes out to clear mud out of the hose. She is completely unbothered by the fact there are so many zombies.

She goes out to clear the hose alone. Rick has to stand there and scream at her to run. It’s like she does not fully perceive the zombies as being threats any more, or she doesn’t care. She’s acting like being out there with all the zombies is no big deal

How many of you figured out it was Carol before she confessed? I figured it out about half way through last night. She’s been getting too much screen time lately, and when the black guy said she’s so nice, I knew it was her.

xblade on October 28, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Carol has been creeping me out the past few episodes, but I didn’t have those murders quite pegged on her.

I wondered if it was Bob the medic, because he was shown carrying red gas containers to the car, when he met Daryl. In several previous scenes, and gas containers were shown by the burned bodies in previous scenes.

I momentarily suspected Bob. Another reason: he has a medical background, I figured maybe he killed/burned the bodies to stop the germs from spreading.

TigerPaw on October 29, 2013 at 2:38 AM

I said it on the last Walking Dead thread, but Carol is a cold fish. Who tells a couple of ten year old kids, within 30 minutes of seeing their dad die and get a knife in the head that they should just suck it up and get over it? That is cold. She herself had months to mourn her daughter, and Rick got months to mourn Lori, but all the two kids get is 30 minutes?

Carol’s the only member of the original cast whose character seems to have actually developed. Everyone else is an archetype who’s been running in place except

Other characters have changed, too.

Andrea went from suicidal and hopeless to a fighter.

Daryl went from constantly angry, in the shadow of his brother to his own man. And he’s more a part of the group now, not quite as angry with people. Still grumpy, yes, but not with the hostility. He’s more willing to open up to people and befriend them.

for Rick, whose own “character” is really just a weekly exercise in “decent man tries to resist temptation to ruthlessness” storytelling.

There’s nothing wrong with that.

The “love among the ruins” storyline with Maggie isn’t so interesting that it should spare him from the writers’ periodic major-character ritual sacrifice. If Daryl and the gang make it back in the nick of time with antibiotics to save him, it’s going to feel lame. Watching Maggie cope with his death would be more interesting than watching a newly healed Glenn float through the rest of the zombie apocalypse, I promise.

I actually agree with AP on this one.

I have found the Maggie and Glenn romance boring for a good, long while now.

Glenn was kind of interesting season 1/2, when he was the guy who would forage for supplies. It was interesting watch him come up with ways to weave in and out of cities and stuff to get supplies.

I always thought Michonne would get together with Rick. But now I think she will hook up with Darryl.

Brat on October 28, 2013 at 9:28 PM

No. Daryl should not be given a romantic partner at all, not with Michonne, not with anyone.

You most usually see the “Caryl” fanatics cheering for Daryl to pair up with Carol.

Setting Daryl up with anyone would ruin the character.

Judging by the copious blood trails, they were still alive when they were dragged outside.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 9:30 PM

I wondered about that.

They didn’t make it clear if Karen and David were dead first and then Carol set them on fire, or if they were still alive and she killed them then set the bodies on fire.

But Rick did ask her if she killed them – not just set the bodies on fire, so I guess they were still alive.

She is one cold, creepy gal.

I hope the billions of “Caryl” fanatics online realize now more than ever that Carol has a screw loose and should not be paired up with Daryl.

Though I did see one ‘Caryl-ite’ post, even after that disturbing “Yes, Rick, I did kill those two people” confession by Carol episode, “Oh at last, Carol gets fight and kill scenes!”

You really want a cold, hard serial killer like Carol hooking up with Daryl, who is basically a decent guy?

As much as I like Sheriff Rick, even Daryl has (so far) demonstrated more a solid moral compass than Rick.

Sheriff Rick has shot people out of the blue (two guys in bar just on suspicion they might shoot), he was more than willing to hang that Randall kid with no hard proof Randall was going to do any wrong, he just pounded Ty’s face in past his due, Rick just drove past orange back pack guy who kept screaming, “Hey help me, please stop.”

In some ways Rick’s actions are understandable, but Daryl has really not done too many questionable moral things… if anything, he’s been more the hero, putting his life on the line to save strangers like the Hispanic family on the bridge, looking for that Sophia kid, etc.

Another weird thing about Carol. The scene where she goes out to clear mud out of the hose. She is completely unbothered by the fact there are so many zombies.

She goes out to clear the hose alone. Rick has to stand there and scream at her to run. It’s like she does not fully perceive the zombies as being threats any more, or she doesn’t care. She’s acting like being out there with all the zombies is no big deal

How many of you figured out it was Carol before she confessed? I figured it out about half way through last night. She’s been getting too much screen time lately, and when the black guy said she’s so nice, I knew it was her.

xblade on October 28, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Carol has been creeping me out the past few episodes, but I didn’t have those murders quite pegged on her.

I wondered if it was Bob the medic, because he was shown carrying red gas containers to the car, when he met Daryl. In several previous scenes, and gas containers were shown by the burned bodies in previous scenes.

I momentarily suspected Bob. Another reason: he has a medical background, I figured maybe he killed/burned the bodies to stop the germs from spreading..

TigerPaw on October 29, 2013 at 2:38 AM

Apologies for the double post. My internet connection keeps going in and out.

TigerPaw on October 29, 2013 at 2:39 AM

Time to start showing them decompose more.

Othniel on October 29, 2013 at 12:11 AM

They have shown some heavily decomposed zombies, like last episode, the one under the tree.

There was “biker girl” zombie from S1 or 2, who was crawling around on the ground.

Not everyone is dying at the same rate, so some corpses are not going to look as decomposed as others.

Considering that if someone from Rick’s group dies now, they would look more “fresh” and not as decayed as a zombie who’s been a zombie for several months.

In room where Karen and David where there was a struggle with the broken cup, chair and book on the floor. I think they turned and Carol did not want to waste time and tell anyone so she did what must be done and just burned them.
tjexcite on October 28, 2013 at 11:15 PM

I’ll have to pay closer attention the next time that episode irs because I didn’t notice the overturned chairs and stuff the first time I watched.

Carol is so cold, I wouldn’t put it past her if she killed them while they were still pre-zombie. I think you may be too generous in assuming she waited for them to turn before she did them in.

If Carol killed them pre-turn, she’s becoming unhinged and just as coldly pragmatic as Shane in the season they were on the farm and he used Otis as zombie bait.

And the look on Rick’s face after she was all “Yeah, I killed them,” he realizes he has a big problem on his hands with her, and if that Tyreese guy ever finds out.

TigerPaw on October 29, 2013 at 2:45 AM

There’s some zombie movie where they were hiding on Alcatraz — a prison and an island! But the zombies just walked on the ocean floor onto Alcatraz. When they tried to escape on boats, the zombies kept popping out of the water and grabbing them or swamping the boats. You’re never safe.

Blake on October 28, 2013 at 10:41 PM

Was that Land of the Dead?

In that movie, the zombies marched in a herd underwater to cross the river or lake to reach the city where the rich people were holed up.

There was another zombie movie (title escapes me) where a zombie is shown underwater, in the ocean, and a shark eats the zombie.

TigerPaw on October 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM

shark eats the zombie.

TigerPaw on October 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM

I think that was a film about 35 years ago called Zombie.

KMav on October 29, 2013 at 4:13 AM

They finally had an Italian character (Karen)… and they killed her off fairly quickly.

Coincidence? I think not!

mankai on October 29, 2013 at 8:40 AM

Did she believe, maybe, that by killing Karen and the other guy quickly she could stop the plague from spreading?

YES.

This isn’t complicated.

Carol promised to protect the girls as “her own”.

She can kill zombies, but not stop a flu.

So she mercy killed Karen/Dave with her knife to the ear/brain.

Then she torched them. Like people did during the plague.

But she didn’t stop the outbreak, which makes her feel like a murderer.

And she most likely has the flu herself.

——————————————————————-

I’m tired of Rick. The guy’s acting is on auto-pilot. Same movements, some tonal inflections.

Carl is by far the most interesting.

They’re setting the old man and Glenn up to do something heroic in the Death Row.

Bob is a plant from the Governor. Since he’s a medic, he might have “brought” the plague with him.

If they end the season with the mega-hord overrunning the prison, that’s no different of an ending than the barnhouse/farm stampede.

The flu should effect the zombies, since they are technically alive, but that would require actual logic as to the how and why.

That’s the worse thing about this show; they try and have it both ways with the undead. If this was a supernatural event, a stab to the head shouldn’t matter, but you can also decapitate them and they’ll live.

budfox on October 29, 2013 at 9:26 AM

Carol has learned from her past that simply standing by and letting things happen does not work well. Her abusive husband ran her life, and how did that work out? Her speech to Andrea about having sex and then stabbing the Governor is actually projection toward her own belief she should have wasted hubby early on.

The scene of her unplugging the water inlet to the prison also shows us that Carol has become proactive, rather than reactive.

I think Allah misses the only point on Tyrese being surrounded by the horde of Zombies–it is to show that he is a powerful and vicious fighting force of Marauder status when cornered. I also suspect this is setting up a confrontation between Carol and Tyrese. Would Carol ‘off’ Tyrese if she thought he was a threat to her? Probably. If not, she is toast.

I think at this point both Glenn and his squeeze are redshirt characters. But I actually think it will be the squeeze that gets it, not Glenn. What are they doing to her makeup, anyway? She has looked fairly bedraggled since the beginning of the Season, and I can’t help but think this is some forshadowing of her inevitable demise.

darkmetal on October 29, 2013 at 9:54 AM

Wow… check out the carol-hate.

Sorry folks, she’s one of the few people living in the “real world” of the zombie apocalypse. Most of the others seem to be still living in a pretend world where walls mean everything can be just like it used to be.

Wendya on October 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM

Carol is my new hero. Tyreese has just gone around the bend, but maybe nearly getting eaten will straighten him out. I liked Glenn better when he was the carefree kid who wasn’t afraid to be lowered into wells. But I will miss him if he goes.

RebeccaH on October 29, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Bob is a plant from the Governor. Since he’s a medic, he might have “brought” the plague with him.

That’s an interesting idea, but didn’t Daryl happen upon Bob in the middle of the forest? How could Bob be a plant if he was discovered by accident by Daryl … how would Bob know where Daryl would be or that Daryl would take him back to the group?

TigerPaw on October 29, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Wow… check out the carol-hate.

Sorry folks, she’s one of the few people living in the “real world” of the zombie apocalypse. Most of the others seem to be still living in a pretend world where walls mean everything can be just like it used to be.

Wendya on October 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM

The actress who plays her seems nice enough, but I have never liked the Carol character. Disliking is not the same as “hating.” Thinking she should not be Daryl’s romantic partner because she’s all wrong for him is not “hating.”

She is cold, like I said. She finds taking human life way too easy, and pushes little girls to get over their father’s death in five minutes, making her not only insensitive but hypocritical since she mourned for Sophia for weeks/months.

She has complained about Rick’s leadership and decisions across many episodes – telling Daryl he’s being Rick’s servant, saying Rick lacks honor, killing Karen/ David without conferring with Rick (or anyone else) first.

Unless the show does something to redeem her character in upcoming episodes, I won’t be sad to see her go.

The scene of her unplugging the water inlet to the prison also shows us that Carol has become proactive, rather than reactive.

darkmetal on October 29, 2013 at 9:54 AM

I think it showed bad judgment on her part. Proactive, yes, but it’s also sloppiness.

She is acting like she is so used to the zombies that they are not a threat. Rick had to scream at her to run, then he had to run out with his guns blazing to rescue her sorry behind.

TigerPaw on October 29, 2013 at 2:55 PM

They were dying of a flu that caused severe hemorrhaging, it was going to be bloody anyway and we’re not even sure they hadn’t died and already turned when she did them in.

From a cold, calculating perspective, it was worth a try. If they had been zombies no one would have batted an eye about sticking them with a knife. Given the nature of this flu, it is no less and in fact it could be argued is more of a threat than the zombie sickenss. I don’t really fault her for her action.

jnelchef on October 29, 2013 at 7:00 PM

Oh yeah, and Tyreese? He needs to nut up or shut up. Waaaaaay to much of a wuss for a post zombie apocalypse. He was worthless at Woodbury and is even more so at the prison. Rick should have kept beating his whiny ass.

jnelchef on October 29, 2013 at 7:08 PM

Did she believe, maybe, that by killing Karen and the other guy quickly she could stop the plague from spreading?

Yes. This was even discussed when people (the council, I think?) were speculating on the possible motives behind the murders, and once other people started contracting it, everyone (including the killer) now knew that wouldn’t work.

The way incubation periods work, I imagine pretty much everyone has been exposed anyway; they’re all in close quarters on a regular basis, after all.

The Schaef on January 8, 2014 at 1:01 PM