Newest GOP primary target: Mike Lee?

posted at 11:21 am on October 23, 2013 by Allahpundit

The establishment strikes back. Well, the Utah establishment anyway.

One word, my friends: RINOlution.

As a result, Lee’s approval ratings in Utah have cratered, and prominent Republicans and local business executives are openly discussing the possibility of mounting a primary challenge against him. Top Republicans are also maneuvering to redesign the party’s nomination system in a way that would likely make it more difficult for Lee to win reelection in 2016…

Spencer Zwick, a Utah native and national finance chairman for Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign, was more direct, calling Lee a “show horse” who “just wants to be a spectacle.”

“Business leaders that I talk to, many of whom supported him, would never support his reelection and in fact will work against him, myself included,” Zwick said…

“You don’t have ideological wack-jobs,” [former Utah Gov. Jon] Huntsman said. “For all of its labeling as a red state, underneath it all Utah is a pretty pragmatic Western state, a just-get-it-done ethos.”

There’s a lot going on here. One: Whatever you think of Lee’s “defund” strategy, he’s not just a “show horse.” Last month he introduced a credible tax reform plan to help the middle class that was widely well received by conservative wonks. One of the misfortunes of “defund” is that it sucked away some deserved attention Lee might have gotten for that proposal. Two: Not all of this is local Utah politics. As Erika noted the other day, business interests nationally are quietly organizing to target populist Republicans who were willing to risk an economic hit from a shutdown in the name of waging a broader ideological battle. John McCain, in fact, admitted that it was business groups that have been urging him to run again in 2016, knowing that he’ll be a bulwark against the populists in the Senate. Utah is one front in a wider war. Three: Some of this is local Utah politics. It was Bob Bennett, remember, who was ousted in the first big grassroots tea-party coup against longtime GOP incumbents in 2010. Mike Lee is the guy who replaced him. Establishment figures in Utah, whether out of disdain for Lee’s style, friendship with Bennett, or pique at having lost their pipeline to influence in Congress might be looking for revenge. Knocking off the man who knocked off Bennett and replacing him with someone more centrist would be a huge symbolic victory for the establishment both in Utah and nationally.

But how will they do it? Aha:

Even before the shutdown brought Mr. Lee to national prominence, some Utah party and business leaders had begun a $1 million petition drive to overturn the state’s caucus system that brought him to power. That system, which gives grass roots delegates a large say in picking party nominees, toppled incumbent GOP Sen. Robert Bennett —a more conventional conservative—in 2010 amid a wave of anger over passage of the health-care law. Mr. Lee went on to win the seat that November…

Republican circles are now rife with talk of who might challenge Mr. Lee in 2016. So far, no one is firmly raising a hand. But the Count My Vote initiative to do away with the state’s caucus system, backed by many of the state’s largest GOP donors and business names, represents perhaps the best-organized effort in the country to counteract the tea-party wave in the 2010 elections.

Mr. Lee could face a tougher route to re-election in 2016 if GOP caucuses are replaced with a direct primary. That would allow a more centrist candidate to make an appeal to all Republican voters, not just the activists who dominate caucuses, political observers say.

It’s hard to beat a tea partier at a GOP caucus/convention. Passionate grassroots righties will turn out in force while squishy centrists won’t and there’s little that money can do to change that. Replace the convention with a statewide primary, though, and then you can carpet-bomb Lee, who’s not a prolific fundraiser, with ads. His support has taken a hit with voters there: A BYU poll conducted during the shutdown put his favorable rating at just 40 percent, which doesn’t tell you much about where it’ll be come 2016 but feels weak enough to have several potential big-name challengers buzzing. One, per WaPo, is the former chair of the state GOP, who admits openly that he’s considering running because he’s “exasperated” with Lee; another is Dan Liljenquist, who tried to unseat Orrin Hatch last year in the primary and who published an op-ed two weeks ago criticizing Lee for having damaged his effectiveness in the Senate. Huntsman would be another obvious possibility, although grassroots conservatives’ contempt for him as a supreme “No Labels” RINO might galvanize more tea-party support for Lee than a lower-profile challenger would. Per the Journal, some people are even batting around the idea of backing one of Mitt Romney’s sons to unseat Lee. Dave Weigel notes that Romney ran far better in 2012 in Utah than Lee did in the big Republican year of 2010, so the Romney brand is a real asset.

Key question: Will national establishment Republican groups get involved or will a primary against one of the heroes of “defund” be too hot for them to risk in 2016? They’ll be sorely tempted to jump in — not because they have any special animosity for Lee, who’s way more low-key in his criticisms of them than a loud-and-proud flamboyant populist like Ted Cruz is, but because at a minimum they might be able to suck tea-party money into Utah to protect that seat and away from primary challenges to GOP incumbents in other states. If they can force TPers to fight there, they’ll take that — putting the grassroots on the defensive means they’re less of a threat to go on offense elsewhere. If they can’t force TPers to fight there, they’ll take that too — that’ll leave Lee in real jeopardy of being primaried, which, like I said above, would be a big symbolic victory for RINOs everywhere. Then again, at the rate we’re going, the GOP and the tea party will be two fully separate entities by 2016, so maybe this is all academic.


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Jon Huntsman? The Republican “establishment” starting to piss me off as much as the Democrats.

magicbeans on October 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM

petunia on October 23, 2013 at 11:56 AM

You make bluegill look sane (by comparison).

bw222 on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

I wish the GOP Establishment, both state and national, would go after Democrats with the same ruthless fervor and contempt they employ when going after Tea Party and conservative Republicans.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 12:19 PM

They can’t. That’s the whole point. This contempt is all displaced, self-loathing energy. They’re the Left’s bitc*es and know it but haven’t the will or capacity to change. Indeed, more and more you will see RINOs adopt the stylisms and overt viciousness of their masters on the Left.

This is an absolute war we’re in — don’t think otherwise for a moment. The GOPe hates us as much as the Left hates us.

rrpjr on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

Power is addictive…

d1carter on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

Lots of Establishment Republicans and crony capitalists that support them actually don’t want to end big government. Examples: Mitch McConnell and the “Kentucky Kickback,” General Electric, any defense contractor, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, etc.

bw222 on October 23, 2013 at 12:19 PM

McConnell didn’t arrange the ‘Kentucky Kickback’. That arrangement was made on the President’s sole initiative without informing McConnell beforehand. Either the President did it as a kingly reward for McConnell’s efforts to end the shutdown or he did it to make McConell look as if he was taking a payoff and thus further polarize the divisions within the GOP. Knowing this President, I lean toward the latter explanation.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

The Republican “establishment” starting to piss me off as much as the Democrats.

magicbeans on October 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM

There is NO distinction btw. them any more.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

It used to be said, “What’s good for General Motors (aka big business) is good for America.” That is no longer necessarily true. Exhibit A: General Electric.

bw222 on October 23, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Exhibit B: General Motors.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

magicbeans, forgot to call you a “socialist” :)

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

I don’t necessarily agree that Lee should be replaced, but the caucus system for primaries is undemocratic and should be junked. I don’t care whether they’re conservative activists or moderate party bosses, nobody should be deciding who a nominee should be in a smoke-filled back room.

Any candidate who expects to win a general election should have to face a proper primary of all the state’s GOP voters.

KingGold on October 23, 2013 at 11:35 AM

You’ve obviously never been to a Utah state convention where the caucus system takes effect. Thousands of delegates in a large hall. Definitely not a “smoke-filled back room”.

The problem with a “proper primary” is the same problem with national elections for our prom king, I mean our president. Too many low-information voters with the political IQ of a teenager.

At least with Utah’s caucus system, you get thousands of passionate INFORMED voters.

robm on October 23, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Lamar Alexander put in the Kentucky Kickback…shockingly.
“Friends of Mitch”

d1carter on October 23, 2013 at 12:29 PM

The GOPe does not want to win another national election do they. They are willing to split the party in order to keep their graft going. I guess they’ll just kiss dem azz because it makes no difference to them and their business cronies where they get their money and power.

I for one am ready to leave the party. Let it all burn.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 11:38 AM

The pay is good. The hours are short. The perks are unbeatable. If you’re not in control, you have no responsibilities. During the short periods you are in control (e.g. 2003-06), just act like the Democrats. Do lots of favors so you can be a lobbyist when the voters finally catch on. What’s not to like?

bw222 on October 23, 2013 at 12:30 PM

That arrangement was made on the President’s sole initiative without informing McConnell beforehand.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

God, you are gullible.

Lamar Alexander did it, including lots of dough for his state. Mitch even said so the day after, before he began to blame the WH, because his first take didn’t….take.

Wake up already.

Out with Frogface/Mitch.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 12:31 PM

I am probably bummed because I have been hanging out at different sites with more Lefties. As angry as I get at Republicans, it is nothing compared to the garbage these people say, and I assume believe, about the Tea Party. Fiscal responsibility doesn’t even enter into the mix but then you have to remember that they don’t care a thing about fiscal responsibility to begin with.

Cindy Munford on October 23, 2013 at 12:32 PM

The establishment GOP wants a fight.

And, the sound of faint feminine laughter wafts gently in from the general direction of… Alaska.

trigon on October 23, 2013 at 12:32 PM

God, you are gullible.

Lamar Alexander did it, including lots of dough for his state. Mitch even said so the day after, before he began to blame the WH, because his first take didn’t….take.

Wake up already.

Out with Frogface/Mitch.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 12:31 PM

Not gullible.

Corrupt.

tetriskid on October 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM

So, McConnell didn’t know it was in the bill before he voted on it?

blink on October 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM

You can look up the details easily enough. I did when I first heard the term ‘Kentucky kickback’. I’m not a big fan of Mitch McConnell’s, but he’s no crook–which is something of a miracle for a prominent politician in a state consistently ranked as one of the most corrupt in the country (after Illinois, I guess).

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM

bw222 on October 23, 2013 at 12:25 PM

Soon she will have her own blog. Just like the gilled one.

Bmore on October 23, 2013 at 12:34 PM

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 12:31 PM

While I agree that it probably isn’t true, don’t you think that would be the perfect Obama move? From what I read funding it was already in the works, increasing the funding and sticking it in this bill is a master backstabbing stroke.

Cindy Munford on October 23, 2013 at 12:34 PM

One of the real crises of representative government we currently face is that the left has mastered election marketing.

If you restricted the vote to those who are actually knowledgeable about the issues of the day some one like Mike Lee would be in the political center.

But the political informed are only a portion of the electorate.

So rather then asking fundamental questions about how, for example, we will pay for the current bloated federal government, let alone one with Obamacare as well, the discussions revolve around how anyone who opposes ‘freebies’ is a meanie.

Why? Because cutting an ad saying Mike Lee or Paul Ryan want to throw grandma off a cliff is easy, and the LIVs can understand it in the 20 seconds they give in considering how they will vote.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure that there is an answer at this point as the left controls the mechanisms of state completely enough to keep their illusionary utopia going until the point of collapse.

18-1 on October 23, 2013 at 12:34 PM

petunia on October 23, 2013 at 11:56 AM

You make me laugh every time you post a comment like that. I needed it badly this morning.

antisocial on October 23, 2013 at 12:37 PM

My gut feeling says that these flames are more likely being fanned by Democratic operatives.

Mike Lee is solid… and probably a lock for 2016 (barring some crazy, unforseen unforced error on his part).

I don’t think the defund stragtegy was well-advised, and I still think it was a wasted opportunity. I’m not sure ‘show votes’ or ‘making a point’ will translate into either Conservative electoral or legislative success in the newar or distant future.

But… having said that, Lee seems to be a Conservative through and through.

Recent tactics aside, both he and Cruz are needed in the Senate.

RightWay79 on October 23, 2013 at 12:37 PM

Just because his name isn’t officially on it doesn’t mean that McConnell did not request or has nothing to do with the Kentucky Kickback.

boone on October 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM

Not even close. Small business’s political leanings are a lot more conservative than big bussiness’s. Tell me big business won’t take money and favors from whomever or wherever they can.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 12:20 PM

‘Fraid so. There’s unfortunately a lot of populist overlap of the rhetoric of the TP and OWS.

thebrokenrattle on October 23, 2013 at 12:40 PM

it is nothing compared to the garbage these people say, and I assume believe, about the Tea Party. Fiscal responsibility doesn’t even enter into the mix but then you have to remember that they don’t care a thing about fiscal responsibility to begin with.

Liberalism is a millennial ideology. Those that opposes increasing the power of the state (at least under leftwing leadership) are by definition evil. Their very existence, even if their resistance is unsuccessful, is sin and must be extirpated for the millennium of utopia to being…

Of course, what makes it worse for the left, is that they have no answer to the tea party’s concerns.

How are we going to stop adding to the national debt?
How are we going to pay off the $17T we’ve already borrowed?
How are we going to pay for the ~$100T in unfunded liabilities?

Interestingly it appears that what Obama is attempting to do is inflate the currency enough that things won’t collapse until after he leaves office. Obviously liberals can’t officially endorse this as it proves the tea party criticism of Obama…

18-1 on October 23, 2013 at 12:41 PM

This could just be a warning shot for Republicans thinking about not towing the party establishment line over the next 3 years.

Wigglesworth on October 23, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Just because his name isn’t officially on it doesn’t mean that McConnell did not request or has nothing to do with the Kentucky Kickback.

boone on October 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM

Now, now we must always take politicians at their word.

When was the last time a politician ever lied?

Besides, they don’t ever play the “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” game.

Stop being cynical and just believe everything you hear.

tetriskid on October 23, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Just because his name isn’t officially on it doesn’t mean that McConnell did not request or has nothing to do with the Kentucky Kickback.

boone on October 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM

By your logic, McConnell is also guilty of participation in the Rwandan genocide. If there’s evidence of an illicit quid pro quo, show proof. Otherwise let it go.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 12:42 PM

thebrokenrattle on October 23, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Yeah. The Communists in the OWS speak about Patriotism, God, and Country all the time, don’t they? Gimme a break.

kingsjester on October 23, 2013 at 12:44 PM

The Republican “establishment” starting to piss me off as much as the Democrats.

magicbeans on October 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM

I starting to think they want to purge the Republican party of conservatives.

jawkneemusic on October 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Honestly… you know what?

Screw the GOP. I’m done with them. I vote Tea Party candidates every time I can now.

Nineball on October 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM

Does Army consider Christians, Tea Party, a terror threat?

Soldiers attending a pre-deployment briefing at Fort Hood say they were told that evangelical Christians and members of the Tea Party were a threat to the nation and that any soldier donating to those groups would be subjected to punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

A soldier who attended the Oct. 17th briefing told me the counter-intelligence agent in charge of the meeting spent nearly a half hour discussing how evangelical Christians and groups like the American Family Association were “tearing the country apart.”…

“My first concern was if I was going to be in trouble going to church,” the evangelical Christian soldier told me. “Can I tithe? Can I donate to Christian charities? What if I donate to a politician who is a part of the Tea Party movement?

Another soldier who attended the briefing alerted the Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty. That individual’s recollections of the briefing matched the soldier who reached out to me.

INC on October 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM

By your logic, McConnell is also guilty of participation in the Rwandan genocide. If there’s evidence of an illicit quid pro quo, show proof. Otherwise let it go.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 12:42 PM

McConnell is directly benefiting from this bridge pork.

Picking random events from history is a logical fallacy and ignorant.

tetriskid on October 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM

The only reason I even bothered to open my last “survey/request” from the RNC was to see if they provided enough comment lines to respond. It didn’t, so it went in the “circular file” under BS.What I would like to explain to Mr. Priebus & co is that until the RNC starts to represent the beliefs & values I cherish, there will be no more money!That means, no more Mitt Romneys or John McCains; backing Republican candidates in tough “Blue States” like New Jersey. (Hey, how many of you knew Lonegan was blind, huh?) or how about Cuccinelli in Virginia, outspent 3 to 1 by the Dems, with Hillary & Bill down there “stumping” for McAuliffe. Go ahead, Priebus, you want to see a real “Tea Party” compete, just keep ignoring our candidates and primarying them. “We have not yet begun to fight!”

Boats48 on October 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM

One word, my friends: RINOlution.

So accurate! The GOP wing of the Liberal establishment is seeing it’s perks disappear because people with principles, other than their bank account, stand up and do something right and they start whining and trying to change the rules.

They’re all leftists, and the sooner that fact is accepted, the sooner we can actually begin to solve the problem.

Quartermaster on October 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM

These national businesses may make me change my buying habits.

Anyone got a list of these chamber of commerce bastards?

I could stand to do with less consumerism…

Chubbs65 on October 23, 2013 at 12:50 PM

The political elite ruling class is getting nervous…

… Their house of cards is going to collapse, and they don’t want to be left outside of the gates when the storm arrives.

Too bad it is inevitable, and we know their names…

Seven Percent Solution on October 23, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Mike Lee is one of the best of the best. He is a keeper, Utah. Do you’re duty and make sure you keep sending him back as long as he continues to put his constituents and the American people ahead of DC cronies.

Speaking of Primaries, Utah, please get rid of Hatch. He is one of the worst of the worst crony Republicans, corrupt through and through. It’s time to get rid of him one way or the other. If he has too much money to defeat in a primary then vote against him in the primary.

FloatingRock on October 23, 2013 at 12:54 PM

…the last “primary” in my comment above should have been “general”.

FloatingRock on October 23, 2013 at 12:54 PM

I think the use of the word RINO has lost its meaning because a Republican In Name Only is someone who mostly work with democrats to advance some issues, now the the so called “True Conservatives” the only thing that has achieve is establish a strong democrat majority in the Senate and destroyed the reputation of the GOP. So who is the Rino those who get things done or those whom has as only purpose in life to make that every democratic candidate (no matter how liberal or socialist is that candidate) won elections.

On the other hand, how is that some of the so called True Conservatives are against that voters has their say in a primary?

Falz on October 23, 2013 at 12:55 PM

I nevr understood what the heck was wrong with Bob Bennett in the first place. He was old, but hardly a liberal RINO. Always quite conservative as a member of the Senate Banking Committee, with a lot of seniority there too. Mike Lee would never have beaten him in a primary.

rockmom on October 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM

While I agree that it probably isn’t true, don’t you think that would be the perfect Obama move? From what I read funding it was already in the works, increasing the funding and sticking it in this bill is a master backstabbing stroke.

Cindy Munford on October 23, 2013 at 12:34 PM

That Mitch didn’t kick it out from this agreement, which he negotiated behind closed doors with Harry, makes him a crook. I don’t care what any of you want him to be.

The land is being milked from all sides, the Rs being the same as the Ds.

Thank you Sens. Cruz/Lee for exposing the exploiters of the hard-working taxpayers and the future of their children.

I hate the RINOs now more than the Utopian Ds. The slowdown exposed you all, in DC and here. You know who you are. Calling us “socialists” only makes you more stupid and sheep in other clothing…you, petunia.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 12:58 PM

The slowdown exposed you all, in DC and here.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 12:58 PM

You got it. This may have been Cruz’s goal all along.

rrpjr on October 23, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Too bad it is inevitable, and we know their names…

Seven Percent Solution on October 23, 2013 at 12:52 PM

:) thanks to Messrs Cruz/Lee, especially. I love the slowdown for this alone. It couldn’t have happened to a more corrupt bunch.

I look forward to 2014.

This too. They’re all in the book, obama, the Ds and the Rs.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Business interests do have one very big achilles heel. It might become necessary for tea party types to pivot and start going directly after the big corporate interests. The left has blackmailed those types for years with boycotts and other less savory methods. If the donor class of the GOP is going to push back against the grassroots it might become necessary to hit them where they live, figuratively speaking.

bannor on October 23, 2013 at 1:02 PM

rockmom on October 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM

He showed his true colors when he threatened to vote with the Ds, just because he was thrown out.

After a few terms they should all go home, with a smidgeon of decency, alas.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:02 PM

I nevr understood what the heck was wrong with Bob Bennett in the first place.
rockmom on October 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Wha could be wrong? Just another contemptuous, arrogant, clueless RINO fossil. He’s gone. McConnell, Graham and Alexander are next.

rrpjr on October 23, 2013 at 1:03 PM

This doesn’t make any sense… The Republicans in power should, naturally, be approved by their “die hard” caucus… Which is their dues paying political party members. That these political leaders want to go against their caucus (the “dues” paying ones) and turn it into a primary (and probably an open one at that) isn’t a political ploy it’s a friggin coup. The caucus members should strip these people of power immediately.

Skywise on October 23, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:00 PM

I haven’t seen much press on his new book. Could there be some State Run Media connections in Extortion?

d1carter on October 23, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Progressives infest the Party of R.

Bmore on October 23, 2013 at 1:05 PM

It is now known that obama/holder threatened Roberts ahead of the obama’care’ vote.

Roberts and his wife adopted two Irish kids. It’s illegal there to have adoptions to foreign parents. To bring the kids here they registered them as “Latino” and brought them via Mexico. obama/Holder threatened him with “racism” if it makes the light of day, and with “illegal registration and transport of children” in other words.

There are links but I’m too lazy to look right now.

That Roberts and his wife were that stupid, to not adopt kids from America is one thing.

That he allowed the goons to threaten him is entirely more dire.

That he and Petraeus were threatened, and that they did nothing, is to their eternal shame.

These are NOT men.

These are traitors to America.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM

By your logic, McConnell is also guilty of participation in the Rwandan genocide. If there’s evidence of an illicit quid pro quo, show proof. Otherwise let it go.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Now there’s a nutty strawman right there.

Yeah, suspecting that McConnell had something to do with some pork that he’s been lobbying for personally for a long time is EXACTLY the same logic as presuming he participated in genocide over on the African continent.

Exactly the same. *eyeroll*

Midas on October 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM

These are NOT men.
Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM

No, they’re not.

rrpjr on October 23, 2013 at 1:08 PM

So is the story that the shutdown battle was about tactics or is it that the Tea Partiers are whack jobs? Seems like the rhetoric is pretty heated for what is being called a disagreement on tactics.

Also would be interested in finding out where Huntsman is on the record calling any Democrat an ideological whack job.

boone on October 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Note to TP Utah – take action NOW to remove the corrupt bastards in your state GOP organization, before they have a chance to disenfranchise you.

NOW.

Midas on October 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM

‘Fraid so. There’s unfortunately a lot of populist overlap of the rhetoric of the TP and OWS.

thebrokenrattle on October 23, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Gimme some links. I see nothing similar in the Tea Party and OWS. However, I don’t know everything and I have been wrong a couple of tmes. Show me the errors of my ways.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM

I haven’t seen much press on his new book. Could there be some State Run Media connections in Extortion?

d1carter on October 23, 2013 at 1:05 PM

You missed it.

1. It was featured on 60 minutes, prominently, during NFL times, intentionally, for more viewership time…because it has 600 references…it’s not fiction and 60 Minutes delayed it for more viewers, once they found out. However, they didn’t prominently feature that obama is the biggest extortionist, with Holder his capo. For ex. Holder threatened big companies and then extorted contributions to obama’s re-elect fund, right after…

2. Two days ago the book was prominently featured in the NY Times, incredibly.

Last night Schweizer was on Hannity.

If I were him I’d watch my back. He might not live much longer.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM

I’ve always wondered how my sister’s boyfriend could be Mormon yet a liberal. Now I know.

Common Sense on October 23, 2013 at 1:11 PM

McConnell, Graham and Alexander are next.

rrpjr on October 23, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Along with Pryor and Landrieu – there is NO difference. They are all in red states, supported by good people, whom the lie to, for their own glory.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Yeah, goodie.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:14 PM

Good to know that the statist GOP finally admits that it’s okay to primary Republicans.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:16 PM

One thing that freedom fighters in Utah can do to help Lee is to primary Orrin Hatch hard so that GOP cronies will have to play defense. I’m not very concerned that they’ll be able to defeat Lee, cronies with deep pockets can pay for a lot of propaganda but they only have a few votes, but I think it’s very realistic to get rid of Hatch.

FloatingRock on October 23, 2013 at 1:18 PM

So who is the Rino those who get things done or those whom has as only purpose in life to make that every democratic candidate (no matter how liberal or socialist is that candidate) won elections.Falz on October 23, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Get what things done? Amnesty? Obamacare? “No Child Left Behind” raising debt ceilings?
What difference does it make if a dem or an entrenched, good ol’ boy Republican gets elected? We’re still spending our way into hell.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Gimme some links. I see nothing similar in the Tea Party and OWS. However, I don’t know everything and I have been wrong a couple of tmes. Show me the errors of my ways.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Can’t speak for thebrokenrattle, but to me, it’s a question of outlook/worldview as well as style and tactics.

Viewpoints are sincerely complex, so we all end up being guilty of sometimes painting others with strokes a bit too broad.

But… I think it not completely off-base to consider all forms of populism as having something in common (that something being… populism, of course).

While many of the specifics differ, both right-leaning populism and left-leaning populism currently seem completely enmeshed with Alinsky’s tactics. (Whether right-leaning populists realize it or not – and some certainly do, though I suspect many do not – they are currently playing the game by the Left’s rules).

Whether all that is a good thing or not is a completely different topic.
;-)

RightWay79 on October 23, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Here’s the link on Roberts’ kids adoption and the Holder/obama thuggery.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:21 PM

I’d rather have 41 Ted Cruzs, Rand Pauls, and Mike Lees in the Senate than 60 Mitch McConnells, Lindsey Grahams, and John McCains.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:22 PM

I nevr understood what the heck was wrong with Bob Bennett in the first place.
rockmom on October 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM

He voted for TARP…along with NCLB, Part D, etc, but it was TARP that set the TEA Party on him.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:25 PM

While many of the specifics differ, both right-leaning populism and left-leaning populism currently seem completely enmeshed with Alinsky’s tactics. (Whether right-leaning populists realize it or not – and some certainly do, though I suspect many do not – they are currently playing the game by the Left’s rules).

Whether all that is a good thing or not is a completely different topic.
;-)

RightWay79 on October 23, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Bingo! And high time it is!!!

I typed often that obama/Holder are impertinent thugs of the highest order, worse than any Mafia gang.

I also typed that they can NEVER be beaten with silky gloves. See Romney.

Thank you for noticing and now fight, fight, fight…because the enemies know NO limits. Decency and respect are dead in America. obama killed them off.

Fight, or be under their rule, forever.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Note to TP Utah – take action NOW to remove the corrupt bastards in your state GOP organization, before they have a chance to disenfranchise you.

NOW.

Midas on October 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Yep, cronies have a lot of money for propaganda but only a few votes. If freedom fighters in Utah get involved in their local party politics they can knock the Hatch cronies that hate Lee out of of positions of power. It has worked before and will work again.

FloatingRock on October 23, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Utah likes them some big gov’t. Don’t let my state fool you into thinking its a small gov’t conservative state. Utah is socially conservative to the point of almost being regressive, but they do love gov’t to control every aspect of our lives.

Sammy316 on October 23, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Gimme some links. I see nothing similar in the Tea Party and OWS. However, I don’t know everything and I have been wrong a couple of tmes. Show me the errors of my ways.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM

They both have huge problems with the Federal Reserve and crony capitalism.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:27 PM

It is all a ruse.

These conservatives are actually socialists they don’t want to admit they like the direction the Democrats are taking the country so they are “purifying” the Republican Party to make sure the Democrats can “fix” the country.

“Conservatives” are socialists in conservative clothing.

Stop believing them.

petunia on October 23, 2013 at 11:56 AM

Wow. Clever of them to fight the Dems at every turn so we can’t tell how they secretly feel. Diabolical really. And all this time I thought the Republicans that caved and voted with the Democrats were the ones who wanted the Dems to prevail.

magicbeans on October 23, 2013 at 1:27 PM

So who is the Rino those who get things done or those whom has as only purpose in life to make that every democratic candidate (no matter how liberal or socialist is that candidate) won elections.

Falz on October 23, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Get what things done? Amnesty? Obamacare? “No Child Left Behind” raising debt ceilings?
What difference does it make if a dem or an entrenched, good ol’ boy Republican gets elected? We’re still spending our way into hell.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:19 PM

The, “those who get things done” is amusing enough – for reasons you’ve set forth. But let’s not forget the knee slapper, “those whom has (sic) as (sic) only purpose in life to make that (sic) every democrat candidate … won (sic) elections.” HAHAHAHAHA. Yes. That’s exactly, “their only purpose in life!”

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:27 PM

Spencer Zwick, a Utah native and national finance chairman for Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign, was more direct, calling Lee a “show horse” who “just wants to be a spectacle.”

“Business leaders that I talk to, many of whom supported him, would never support his reelection and in fact will work against him, myself included,” Zwick said…

So the Romney losers and Mormon businessmen seem more concerned about profits than principles…makes perfect sense.

ironmarshal on October 23, 2013 at 1:28 PM

They both have huge problems with the Federal Reserve and crony capitalism.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:27 PM

OWS only has problems with non-Democrat crony capitalism.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:28 PM

So the Romney losers and Mormon businessmen seem more concerned about profits than principles…makes perfect sense.

ironmarshal on October 23, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Also interested in destroying Boy Scouts.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:30 PM

I’ve never bought into the idea of a GOP/Tea Party split, but the more these idiots continue to dismiss, mock, and belittle their more conservative brethren the more I think the split is inevitable. They NEVER talk of Dems that way, and if your only purpose in office is to get along with and yield to those who want to fundamentally transform this country into a European-style welfare state then you’re of little use to those of us that don’t want that.

changer1701 on October 23, 2013 at 1:32 PM

RightWay79 on October 23, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Well, yes All forms of populism do have populism in common but the OWS go after all forms independent businesses, both large and small, when they’re not busy raping young girls and pooping on cop cars.

Tea Partiers are pretty respectful of authority and of other hard working individuals. It’s difficult to respect the politicians who make their fortunes on the backs of those hard working individuals.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:33 PM

“Next time Iowahawk the Tea Party beats up on you, just take it. If you try to fight back, it only gets worse. It’s like one of those monsters that, the harder you fight it, the stronger it gets, because it actually feeds on your pathetic swats.”

(Apologies to Iowahawk and Rand Simberg)

Christien on October 23, 2013 at 1:35 PM

I nevr understood what the heck was wrong with Bob Bennett in the first place.

rockmom on October 23, 2013 at 12:57 PM

He voted for TARP…along with NCLB, Part D, etc, but it was TARP that set the TEA Party on him.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Bob Bennett called the Constitution an outmoded document for an agrarian society. Pretty much proof positive that he did not represent most of his voters.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:37 PM

Delusional Nutbag Nancy Pelosi: We Didn’t Lose In 2010 Because of Obamacare…

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:29 PM

Scumhag :)

Trippi said this morning “In KY they signed up 1000. If the health’care’.gov would work they’d have signed up many thousands across the land. Therefore it’s a good program”.

Talk about delusional.

The majority of fools in the land allow this.

Schadenfreude on October 23, 2013 at 1:37 PM

Picking random events from history is a logical fallacy and ignorant.

tetriskid on October 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM

Exactly the same. *eyeroll*

Midas on October 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM

Right back at both of you. The argument boone made was, ‘Just because his [McConnell's] name isn’t officially on it doesn’t mean that McConnell did not request or has nothing to do with the Kentucky Kickback.’

My counterargument was that, by boone’s reasoning, the absence of evidence did not establish McConnell’s innocence in the matter; therefore, (following his logic), absence of evidence can also be construed as evidence of culpability in any number of things, such as, for example, the Rwandan genocide.

So lightweights, if you want to engage in reasoned argument, fine, but first you need to know what constitutes fallacy and what constitutes validity. Neither of you apparently do. I understand there are online courses available. Take them.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM

I’ve never bought into the idea of a GOP/Tea Party split, but the more these idiots continue to dismiss, mock, and belittle their more conservative brethren the more I think the split is inevitable. They NEVER talk of Dems that way, and if your only purpose in office is to get along with and yield to those who want to fundamentally transform this country into a European-style welfare state then you’re of little use to those of us that don’t want that.

changer1701 on October 23, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Obama is to our foreign enemies as the GOP is to the Democrats (i.e., deferential and servile)

Obama is to the GOP as the GOP is to its voters (i.e., condescending and uncompromising)

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:39 PM

They both have huge problems with the Federal Reserve and crony capitalism.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:27 PM

I am convinced that most OWSers don’t know what the Federal Reserve is and only target the capitalists their dem masters tell them to.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:39 PM

OWS only has problems with non-Democrat crony capitalism.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Not really.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:39 PM

One word, my friends: RINOlution.
– Allah

Remember when RINO meant guys like Mike Bloomberg?
Now it’s anyone who doesn’t get a Palin endorsement.

verbaluce on October 23, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Firefox from the desktop is “not responding” on this site.

Weird but I still have the iPad thingy, so try something else NSA filterman.

PappyD61 on October 23, 2013 at 1:41 PM

My counterargument was that, by boone’s reasoning, the absence of evidence did not establish McConnell’s innocence in the matter; therefore, (following his logic), absence of evidence can also be construed as evidence of culpability in any number of things, such as, for example, the Rwandan genocide.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Except that in McConnell’s case there is decent circumstantial evidence that he played a role. You do know that circumstantial evidence is a thing, right? There is both direct evidence and circumstantial evidence. Your “counterargument” has neither. And, in fact, circumstantial evidence against. Your argument is the lazy fallacy. Try again.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:42 PM

Not really.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Agree to disagree, then.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:43 PM

I am convinced that most OWSers don’t know what the Federal Reserve is and only target the capitalists their dem masters tell them to.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Which includes Mom and Pop, I should have added.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Remember when RINO meant guys like Mike Bloomberg?
Now it’s anyone who doesn’t get a Palin endorsement.

verbaluce on October 23, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Remember when statists could make an argument without hyperbole? Yeah, me neither.

besser tot als rot on October 23, 2013 at 1:45 PM

So lightweights, if you want to engage in reasoned argument, fine, but first you need to know what constitutes fallacy and what constitutes validity. Neither of you apparently do. I understand there are online courses available. Take them.

troyriser_gopftw on October 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM

If you’re really interested in reasoned argument than you wouldn’t disingenuously omit the necessity of context. The parallelism between a Kentucky senator’s natural self-interest in a Kentucky kickback and a Kentucky senator’s abstract interest in Rwanda genocide is anything but reasoned argument.

rrpjr on October 23, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Firefox from the desktop is “not responding” on this site.

Weird but I still have the iPad thingy, so try something else NSA filterman.

PappyD61 on October 23, 2013 at 1:41 PM

I’ve been having trouble with Firefox on this site for quite awhile. It’s gotten so aggravating that I switchover to IE when I come on this site.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:47 PM

No thread to post this, except for the Tea Party bashing, but I thought you might want to see this:

Westboro Cult Leader Praises Obama – Bashes Tea Party

INC on October 23, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Gimme some links. I see nothing similar in the Tea Party and OWS. However, I don’t know everything and I have been wrong a couple of tmes. Show me the errors of my ways.

Vince on October 23, 2013 at 1:09 PM

They both have huge problems with the Federal Reserve and crony capitalism.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:27 PM

OWS isn’t a player. They don’t have the massive funding and they aren’t trying to ‘primary’ anyone with those massive funds.
Who again in congress self-identifies as an OWS rep?

verbaluce on October 23, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Remember when RINO meant guys like Mike Bloomberg?
Now it’s anyone who doesn’t get a Palin endorsement.

verbaluce on October 23, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Remember when…

‘I was born out of wedlock (and against the advice that my mother received from her doctor) and therefore abortion is a personal issue for me. If one accepts the position that life is private, and therefore you have the right to do with it as you please, one must also accept the conclusion of that logic. That was the premise of slavery. You could not protest the existence or treatment of slaves on the plantation because that was private and therefore outside of your right to be concerned. What happens to the mind of a person, and the moral fabric of a nation, that accepts the aborting of the life of a baby without a pang of conscience?

Another area that concerns me greatly, namely because I know how it has been used with regard to race, is the psycholinguistics involved in this whole issue of abortion. If something can be dehumanized through the rhetoric used to describe it, then the major battle has been won. … Those advocates of taking life prior to birth do not call it killing or murder, they call it abortion. They further never talk about aborting a baby because that would imply something human. Rather they talk about aborting the fetus. Fetus sounds less than human and therefore can be justified.’

- Reverend Jesse Jackson, How We Respect Life Is The Overriding Moral Issue, Right to Life News, January 1977

‘While the deep concern of a woman bearing an unwanted child merits consideration and sympathy, it is my personal feeling that the legalisation of abortion on demand is not in accordance with the value which our civilisation places on human life… When history looks back to this era it should recognise this generation as one which cared about human beings enough to halt the practise of war, to provide a decent living for every family and to fulfill its responsibility to its children from the very moment of conception.’

- Senator Edward Kennedy, 1971

‘I am opposed to abortion and to government funding of abortions.’

- Governor Bill Clinton, 1986

In 1984, Congressman Albert Gore, Jr, voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1984, which would have ‘protected unborn children from the moment of conception,’ as he described it. This vote was one of several that Gore cast for the pro-life position.

Not that he would probably admit it, but Joe Biden once voted to amend the Constitution in order to reverse Roe v Wade.

In 1977, former Speaker Dick Gephardt co-sponsored a constitutional amendment to ban abortion, which he called ‘unjust.’

Nowadays, if you do not support abortion on demand at any time for any reason, you are not welcome in the Democrat Party…and you certainly aren’t ever going to be allowed to address the convention. Just ask Senator Casey what happened to his father.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:50 PM

On Tea Party officals from Texas.

Ted Cruz did a deal last nite sponsored by the Tarrant County Tea Party (Ft. Worth/Arlington) area.
They had two days to put it together, first got a small church building,they saw how many would end up comming changed the last day to the Arlington (re-built) movie theater down town Arlington.

Looks like it seated 600 to 700 down stairs and the upper part 200 or so, may be more, out side in lobby and such and outside the building many more who could not get in.

20 min standing ovation, when he tried to tell the crowd “Thank You” they said ,,,”NO THANK YOU TED”…

Lots of vets and current active types and many blacks and south Americans and some vietnam people.

The media, the D.C. crowd have no idea how deep the anger is now.

Ted Curz will not back down nor will we.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on October 23, 2013 at 1:50 PM

OWS isn’t a player. They don’t have the massive funding and they aren’t trying to ‘primary’ anyone with those massive funds.
Who again in congress self-identifies as an OWS rep?

verbaluce on October 23, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Are you asking me?

Because I don’t recall making ANY argument about OWS and Congress.

Resist We Much on October 23, 2013 at 1:51 PM

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