“Walking Dead” grumble thread: The silence of the pigs

posted at 8:41 pm on October 21, 2013 by Allahpundit

Can it really be a grumble thread if there’s nothing to grumble about? Last night’s episode was another strong one, from the big action set piece in the cell block to the whodunnit of someone feeding rats to the walkers and burning the bodies of the infected to the shattering ending where Rick sacrifices the pigs, a moment universally praised on Twitter as more affecting than any human death depicted on the show. It reminded me of the scene from season two where Shane shot a peripheral character in the leg so that he’d be overrun by distracted zombies while Shane limped away to safety, but that was all about showing the ruthlessness of an especially ruthless character. Shane always had that in him; the zompocalypse simply brought it out. It plays more like a crime than a tragedy. Rick using the pigs as zombie chum is tragic because it’s a betrayal of the innocent by someone decent who’s been forced by circumstance into unimaginable ruthlessness. Andrew Lincoln played it well too — big emotion would have made the scene ridiculous but understatement makes it feel like he’s doing all he can to hold it together amid the horror of what he’s doing. Between all of that, the continued absence of the tedious gang-war storyline with the Governor, and the fact that I’m 99 percent sure someone uttered the word “zombie” during the cell-block scene (didn’t they?), that was a satisfying hour. Now all I need is for someone to explain to me what Rick accomplished, or thought he was accomplishing, by distracting the zombies for 10 minutes or so with some pig chow and I’ll be happy.

Since there’s no “Walking Dead” grumbling today, how about a little “Homeland” grumbling instead? (Spoilers ahead in case you’re a fan of the show.) Anyone want to clue me in on how Carrie and Saul were supposedly in cahoots on her institutionalization? When he told that congressional panel that a bipolar agent had slept with Brody, she was alone at home watching — and got visibly upset. After she was sent to the psychiatric hospital, Saul came to visit — and a heavily medicated Carrie told him, almost in a whisper so no one else could hear, “F*** you.” She seemed genuinely surprised in last night’s episode when Dar Adal showed up after her release hearing to ask the judge to keep her locked up. But why would she be surprised by that? The whole point of her plan with Saul was to keep her locked up, at least until the Iranians came calling, and obviously Saul would have to enlist his deputies in doing that so that they wouldn’t suspect he and Carrie were in cahoots. Long story short, there’s been lots of little moments where Carrie seems genuinely mad at Saul for all this, with no one watching; she even went and sat down with a reporter, as if she was about to blab state secrets, before the CIA arrived in the nick of time with an institutionalization order. Why would all of that be true if she and Saul were conspiring from the beginning?

One possibility: They weren’t conspiring from the beginning but somehow hatched this plan together after she’d already been sent to the hospital. I guess that’s possible, but in that case, when did it happen? Offscreen maybe, after the “F*** you” line? Why would Carrie agree to work with Saul to trap the Iranians after he’d already had her involuntarily committed? For that matter, if this is all a big scam that she and Saul are running on the Iranians, why didn’t she accept Franklin’s offer to meet with his “client” the first time he came to see her in the hospital? Why play hard to get? The big problem with the theory that she and Saul hatched this plan only after he’d had her committed is that it would be exceptionally dangerous to national security to then ask her to meet with Iranian terrorists. She might be so mad at him and at the agency for institutionalizing her that, instead of luring the Iranians into a trap, she might really turn into a double agent for them. I’m willing to suspend belief here but give me some crumb of evidence to think that this is all consistent and that Carrie and Saul were colluding all along. Am I missing something obvious?


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The silence of the pigs

Is this a political show about the Dems?

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Nice write up AP.

No grumbling here. Be interesting to see how it plays out with the new mysteries (trying not to spoil).

kim roy on October 21, 2013 at 8:51 PM

Now all I need is for someone to explain to me what Rick accomplished, or thought he was accomplishing, by distracting the zombies for 10 minutes or so with some pig chow and I’ll be happy.

The walkers were pushing the fence down and were about to breach the first line of their defense. So he used the pigs as bait to pull them away while the other members of the group reinforced the fence line.

Also, he knew he had to get rid of the pigs anyway after the whole flu discussion in case they were now carrying the disease that killed the first pig. That’s also why he burned the pig sty down too. If you have to kill the pigs, might as well get some helpful use out of them while doing it.

nextgen_repub on October 21, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Good episode. I think Rick was just giving the others time to reinforce the fence.

Dongemaharu on October 21, 2013 at 8:56 PM

I still don’t get why they haven’t adopted more medieval war tech. It’s a no brainer.

Pikes, palisades, moats, etc. Instead we get crowbars, and chain link fences. Let’s not to mention what would be the most effective primitive war technology that’s been known by people since time immemorial: leather armor. No walker can bite through boiled leather, but somehow it’s like humanity has completely forgotten about the stuff. It’s light, pliable, and walker proof, but…nah…I’ll stick with my flannel.

Here’s an idea: If 50 walkers can knock down a fence, how about not sitting around all day while they gather outside the fence?

I still feel like the writers haven’t seriously considered realistic defensive scenarios.

Nessuno on October 21, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Still waiting for Zombinado. Where a killer storm makes those walls meaningless.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 8:59 PM

So how about that webseries, “The Oath,” huh?

woof.

mintycrys on October 21, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Is this a political show about the Dems?

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 8:49 PM

When is a dem ever silent?

cozmo on October 21, 2013 at 9:04 PM

Allahpundit you almost got me to watch an episode of Walking Dead….almost.

terryannonline on October 21, 2013 at 9:05 PM

I still feel like the writers haven’t seriously considered realistic defensive scenarios.

Nessuno

They haven’t even considered the main characters to be capable of learning.

What happened to their first camp? Over run by zombies!

Their 2nd, the farm? … wait for it … Over run by zombies!

Capt. I detecting a pattern.

The idea that they’d just put up a gate with some stanchions and go about their merry way is idiotic. I like the show but they treat their characters like complete morons.

chimney sweep on October 21, 2013 at 9:06 PM

Since there’s no “Walking Dead” grumbling today, how about a little “Homeland” grumbling instead?

If you want “Homeland” grumbling, try former “Cheers” and “MASH” writer Ken Levine’s take from this morning. More Dana than Carrie grumbling here, but the Jerry Lewis line is good.

jon1979 on October 21, 2013 at 9:07 PM

When is a dem ever silent?

cozmo on October 21, 2013 at 9:04 PM

When Obama speaks..

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 9:08 PM

I still don’t get why they haven’t adopted more medieval war tech. It’s a no brainer.

Nessuno on October 21, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Because then they would be safe from zombies. What’s the fun in that?

I figure there are plenty of backhoes around. Possibly even one with a cab.

cozmo on October 21, 2013 at 9:08 PM

Twitchy.

Bishop on October 21, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 9:08 PM

Not true, they are praising him like the congregation in an ethnic southern Baptist church.

cozmo on October 21, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Not true, they are praising him like the congregation in an ethnic southern Baptist church.

cozmo on October 21, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Not the wons that fainted…

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 9:11 PM

I still don’t get why they haven’t adopted more medieval war tech. It’s a no brainer.

Nessuno on October 21, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Actually, they did somewhat. Did you see the outer wooden door with the wood spikes? The doors are a wedge pointing outward, which forces the walkers seeking to gain entrance, to the sides. When the doors open, they impale the walkers on the wooden stakes. I thought it was an ingenious design.

dominigan on October 21, 2013 at 9:15 PM

I still feel like the writers haven’t seriously considered realistic defensive scenarios.

Nessuno on October 21, 2013 at 8:59 PM

I was thinking the same thing. They put up barricades at the gate to keep them back, it’d be fairly easy to create other walker deterrents like them all around the compound so the walkers impale themselves and help keep other walkers from getting close to the fence in the first place.

SauerKraut537 on October 21, 2013 at 9:15 PM

Pikes and whatnot were shown last season. They did work for the guy utilizing them.

I can’t believe the ingestion of viral pigs is not going to have some adverse effect on the walkers.

By the “logic” given, these aren’t “the undead” as we know them but some lower brain activity that’s able to activate the neural network once either the heart stops pumping blood or the upper brain goes dead. It’s the only logical reason as to why the decompose slower, have softer craniums, and can still “live” after decapitation.

So you’re introducing a flu virus into something already viral, parasitic or neurological. That should make the zombie aspect more dangerous to either the survivors or to other dead.

IMO, it would be pretty cool to see this turn into zombie meltdown, which would make areas totally uninhabitable.

But, I’m asking for too much. They’ll go cheap and make the flu just another complication.

budfox on October 21, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Is this a political show about the Dems?

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 8:49 PM

If you want to see a show that features zombies and Obama, just google today’s Rose Garden speech about Obamacare. Or, for that matter, any speech that features Obama with folks in brightly colored t-shirts.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:16 PM

terryannonline on October 21, 2013 at 9:05 PM

Ha, he got me hooked. Now I look forward to this on Mondays.

jazzuscounty on October 21, 2013 at 9:18 PM

They put up barricades at the gate to keep them back, it’d be fairly easy to create other walker deterrents like them all around the compound so the walkers impale themselves and help keep other walkers from getting close to the fence in the first place.

SauerKraut537 on October 21, 2013 at 9:15 PM

So essentially, you want a zombie show without the zombies?

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Okay, I’ll give you partial credit on that one. Most of the passed out “wons” are still babbling though.

cozmo on October 21, 2013 at 9:21 PM

So…
According to Drudge..
Obama call Verizon for O’Scare fix…

And he wasn’t put on hold….

[Now how do I tie my post to this post....]

Obama calls Verizon and doesn’t speak to a Zombie..

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 9:22 PM

Most of the passed out “wons” are still babbling though.

cozmo on October 21, 2013 at 9:21 PM

Mostly about free sh!t…
And a man in a red suit…

Let them drool..

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 9:23 PM

chimney sweep on October 21, 2013 at 9:06 PM

I hear ya but I think the characters are just trying to be human and establish someplace livable. Besides, it’s always good for the show’s ratings building up some normalcy and then having the rug pulled out from under them… Let them get comfortable and then…

SauerKraut537 on October 21, 2013 at 9:24 PM

So essentially, you want a zombie show without the zombies?

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Now I didn’t say that! Keeping the zombies at bay doesn’t matter now with the fear of zombies coming from inside the camp.

SauerKraut537 on October 21, 2013 at 9:26 PM

Are the the zombies on Obamacare or the result of Obamacare?

derft on October 21, 2013 at 9:27 PM

So…
According to Drudge..
Obama call Verizon for O’Scare fix…

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 9:22 PM

If so, I cancel my Verizon accounts. Since I am probably not alone is why they are trying to keep it quiet.

And to tie it to this thread I’ll add this. Zombies don’t care about customers but Verizon does.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:28 PM

If so, I cancel my Verizon accounts. Since I am probably not alone is why they are trying to keep it quiet.

And to tie it to this thread I’ll add this. Zombies don’t care about customers but Verizon does.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:28 PM

I am listening the Levin right now…delayed a couple hours..
And a caller that works for Verizon called in and said that Verizon has always been involved in the hardware aspect of ObamaCare…
They are having to increase their Cloud capacity for the crappy Canadian Software….

So this isn’t news..

Electrongod on October 21, 2013 at 9:31 PM

Are the the zombies on Obamacare or the result of Obamacare?

derft on October 21, 2013 at 9:27 PM

Zombism is a pre-existing condition. These folks were denied any sort of healthcare before Obamacare. No longer! And the benefit is that walking dead really don’t have need for the mandatory insurance so they are more of a cash cow than young people.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:33 PM

Now I didn’t say that! Keeping the zombies at bay doesn’t matter now with the fear of zombies coming from inside the camp.

SauerKraut537 on October 21, 2013 at 9:26 PM

Actually, I’d be more scared of sleeping in the same home with a six-year-old with “knife skills” she picked up during story time.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:36 PM

I hear ya but I think the characters are just trying to be human and establish someplace livable. Besides, it’s always good for the show’s ratings building up some normalcy and then having the rug pulled out from under them… Let them get comfortable and then…

SauerKraut537 on October 21, 2013 at 9:24 PM

The reality is that humans are going to “nest” if in any place for a period of time. And you’re right. Put the cast on an island large enough where they can grow their own food (zombies can’t swim) and none of the rest of it really matters. Unless, of course, fresh produce somehow makes one into a zombie.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:40 PM

After following this from the start, I suddenly realized I cared more about the pigs than the people. I’m done, ready for some bad old traditional vampires (not the Twilight BS) where there is good and evil and no moral equivalence.

cartooner on October 21, 2013 at 9:42 PM

I didn’t read the post b/c I haven’t viewed the episode yet. But the first episode, did he feed the woods gal to her zombie love? Or did he finish her off. I couldn’t quite get that.

PattyJ on October 21, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Le Culte des Morts (The Cult of the Dead)

A first-hand account of a creepy pagan ritual in Haiti led by a young, steam-punk hottie making gurgling sounds.

Axe on October 21, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Can it really be a grumble thread if there’s nothing to grumble about? Last night’s episode was another strong one, from the big action set piece in the cell block to the whodunnit of someone feeding rats to the walkers and burning the bodies of the infected to the shattering ending where Rick sacrifices the pigs, a moment universally praised on Twitter as more affecting than any human death depicted on the show.

DITTO.

DITTO and Ditto, Ditto.

Then, DITTO again, Ditto and ditto.

I’ll be the ten millionth viewer to express this, but the actor playing “RICK” really makes this show with that sly one playing “Daryl” doing likewise.

These two have maintained the series as watchable as it is, despite the now recurring — if not by now, predictable — confrontations defining plot situations.

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 9:59 PM

If you have to kill the pigs, might as well get some helpful use out of them while doing it.

nextgen_repub on October 21, 2013 at 8:55 PM

I like the Rick character, but I thought what he did was very cold – the pigs were ALIVE when he tossed them to the zombies (he put a cut on each pig’s side/leg to get the zombies attracted to the blood, but the pigs were alive when they were attacked by the zombies), ditto to the idiot who was feeding rats to the walkers through the fence, the rats were alive.

I was creeped out by the Carol character in last night’s episode.

She was a little too fine with amputating the bit guy’s arm, then later, she seemed too blaise and peachy with sticking the knife in his head.

I also thought she was very cold with the little girls (daughters of the dead guy, neither one was over the age of ten), at first urging them to stab their own dead dad, and then, telling the crying kid at the fence (her dad just died) that she was “weak,” and how life is tough so suck it up and soldier on, toughen up, etc.

Yes, I get that Carol has her own issues and is projecting them on to the girls (she was an abused wife,her daughter was killed by a zombie), but still, could she not have an ounce more empathy for these girls who just lost their dad ten minutes before?

Nobody gets over the death of a parent in the scope of ten minutes or an hour or even a year, jeeze. Even Carol wallowed in Dead Daughter (Sophia) Grief for weeks or months before she snapped out of it, whey does she expect some kid to do more than that?

I am having a hard time understanding stuff like the weakened fence. You have about 30 – 40 people in that prison (some are newcomers from Woodbury season 3).

Based on the last two episodes, it looks like only Rick, Daryl, Glenn, and maybe Maggie, are doing 95% of the work (and occasionally, about five of the prison people run to the fence to poke zombies in the head, which takes them what, an hour out of each day, what are they doing with the remaining 23 hours?).

What the heck are the other 37, 47 people doing all day just sitting around reading books? Can’t they come out and fortify the fence during the day? Why weren’t any more of them helping Rick with the farming?

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 10:00 PM

I didn’t read the post b/c I haven’t viewed the episode yet. But the first episode, did he feed the woods gal to her zombie love? Or did he finish her off. I couldn’t quite get that.

PattyJ on October 21, 2013 at 9:56 PM

{{SPOILER}}

The Woods Gal offed herself with her own, big knife and Rick, ever the gentleman if such can be said amidst his ongoing conditions, walked away from both the soon-to-be-zombified Woods Gal AND her Zombie Head Guy.

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:01 PM

I loved last nights episode. The “sacrifice” of the pigs was a sacrifice of time and love. It was moving. Rick gave up on giving up.

Eastwood Ravine on October 21, 2013 at 10:01 PM

What the heck are the other 37, 47 people doing all day just sitting around reading books? Can’t they come out and fortify the fence during the day? Why weren’t any more of them helping Rick with the farming?

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 10:00 PM

It’s not a Series based in reality, at least I hope it isn’t.

And it focuses on the stars, the starring character roles. I agree about the troublesome details you mention but imagine how boring the Series would be if it spent time on those “other 37, 47 people” in the hour each Episode is on. It’d be monstrously tedious and scattered as to plot-lines, focus, purpose and strife experienced by lead characters.

I did, too, as you did, wonder about the Carol character after last night. Up to now, she’s been quite supportable, reliable but after last night, she’s not looking too healthy. Which may be the point, the creeping effects of the Zombie Infection on the As-Yet Living. Carol may just be showing the creeping effects of ‘going zombie’ more slowly than if one died first.

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:06 PM

Eastwood Ravine on October 21, 2013 at 10:01 PM

I see what you are saying, but I felt sad for the pigs for their own sake. It’s cruel to feed a living creature to a group of zombies.

Ah well, at least it was all only make-believe.

On the “Talking Dead” Nicotero said the pigs got loose before filming, and actor Andrew Lincoln (who plays Rick) chased them around and caught them himself.

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 10:07 PM

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:06 PM

It’s not that I expect the show to spend equal time on all 30 – 40 people each episode, but I mean, an establishing shot showing 15 – 25 people walking around in the background farming or fence fixing, as we see the main characters in the foreground doing dialogue.

I just really wonder how a fence gets broken down and stuff when there are 35 – 45 people around there all day.

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Now I didn’t say that! Keeping the zombies at bay doesn’t matter now with the fear of zombies coming from inside the camp.

SauerKraut537 on October 21, 2013 at 9:26 PM

Actually, I’d be more scared of sleeping in the same home with a six-year-old with “knife skills” she picked up during story time.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Here’s where the story fell down for me: they’ve been living in a compromised structure for a while now — zombies in parts of it, zombies able to creep into it from a broken back wing and unpredictable zombiefication of the living — and they still sleep with unlocked cell doors at night.

Seems like they’d know enough to lock themselves in at night, or at any time they wanted shut-eye, in an available cell.

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Eh, I thought the episode was kind of weak. Sure, there was some action, but it seemed like there was a lot of filler too. And this is just episode 2. Interesting ending though.

xblade on October 21, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:06 PM

It’s not that I expect the show to spend equal time on all 30 – 40 people each episode, but I mean, an establishing shot showing 15 – 25 people walking around in the background farming or fence fixing, as we see the main characters in the foreground doing dialogue.

I just really wonder how a fence gets broken down and stuff when there are 35 – 45 people around there all day.

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM

All productions have budgets, is why we don’t see “all those other people” walking around, on camera. Requires daily pay, costumery, makeup, lunch wagon…

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:11 PM

I’m done, ready for some bad old traditional vampires (not the Twilight BS) where there is good and evil and no moral equivalence.

cartooner on October 21, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Try “Being Human” they have werewolfs, vampires and ghosts trying to live with each other.

derft on October 21, 2013 at 10:13 PM

What the heck are the other 37, 47 people doing all day just sitting around reading books? Can’t they come out and fortify the fence during the day? Why weren’t any more of them helping Rick with the farming?

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 10:00 PM

ON THE OTHER HAND, it could be a directorial/script intention to instill the fact in audience that those “other people” are largely unfed, desultory, hungry, lithless…

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:15 PM

I’m done, ready for some bad old traditional vampires (not the Twilight BS) where there is good and evil and no moral equivalence.

cartooner on October 21, 2013 at 9:42 PM

I’m way past bored with the Vampire themes, especially the Buxom Youth With Beauty Shop Hair, Nails, Makeup who twirls and kicks and eventually gets around to vampiring. It’s such a tiresome, stupid concept.

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:16 PM

I still feel like the writers haven’t seriously considered realistic defensive scenarios.

Nessuno

They haven’t even considered the main characters to be capable of learning.

What happened to their first camp? Over run by zombies!

Their 2nd, the farm? … wait for it … Over run by zombies!

Capt. I detecting a pattern.

The idea that they’d just put up a gate with some stanchions and go about their merry way is idiotic. I like the show but they treat their characters like complete morons.

chimney sweep on October 21, 2013 at 9:06 PM

I agree with Nesuno and have been annoyed with the same question throughout the Series.

BUT we’re supposed to now believe that RICK has undergone some sort of LOST LEADERSHIP TIME DUE TO MENTAL DURESS and the group’s been largely floundering while he wandered around not-leading them.

Now RICK is supposedly back to his guns, so that means more sense, I hope, in the future Episodes.

These are also people who have not had regular or nutritious meals much to speak of, have undergone abnormally horrific conditions and experiences, so it’s actually a credit to them as sane people, what sanity is left, that they’re maintaining.

I think the “senselessness” of acts, especially as to their woeful defenses or lack of inventiveness in that regard, speaks to their woeful state of “just hanging on.”

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM

What the heck are the other 37, 47 people doing all day just sitting around reading books? Can’t they come out and fortify the fence during the day? Why weren’t any more of them helping Rick with the farming?

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 10:00 PM

You notice that too?

I can understand holding them out of scene if they are just going to be general zombie food, but there is a big lack of character development. They killed off the father of the two creepy kids and he had about two seconds to establish a personality. The scene was flat for that reason

There was more sadness when the pigs were killed. They were sincerely squealing, natural actors, and it hurt to see them die. Says something when a pig ad libs better than the script

I don’t think the scripts are as strong this season

entagor on October 21, 2013 at 10:25 PM

Thanks, Lourdes, and I thought the episode was a commentary on the morality of killing, or the sentimentality. “Don’t name it.”

PattyJ on October 21, 2013 at 10:33 PM

I wasn’t near as creeped out by Carol telling the little girl to suck it up as I was by the little girl being upset her zombie Nick was killed. She didn’t care that her dad was dead, but more that the zombie she named had been killed. The little girl is the creepy one. I didn’t mind Carol telling her she was weak at all. And her little sister knows she’s a fruitcake.
Typical liberal. Feeling sorry for zombies while real life problems go unsolved ;)

americanmama on October 21, 2013 at 10:46 PM

Here’s where the story fell down for me: they’ve been living in a compromised structure for a while now — zombies in parts of it, zombies able to creep into it from a broken back wing and unpredictable zombiefication of the living — and they still sleep with unlocked cell doors at night.

Seems like they’d know enough to lock themselves in at night, or at any time they wanted shut-eye, in an available cell.

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:10 PM

In full disclosure, I’m not an avid fan.

Where the series falls down for me is that at some point in a TV show you’ve got to do more than hunker down with a core cast and setting while killing off a slew of extras. Star Trek perfected that formula but it doesn’t work here.

At some point the barriers keeping the walkers out will fail. At some point there will be real conflict among the non-walkers in their prison shelter. At this point, IMO, the show doesn’t seem honest in how the characters interact with one another.

Happy Nomad on October 21, 2013 at 10:58 PM

All productions have budgets, is why we don’t see “all those other people” walking around, on camera. Requires daily pay, costumery, makeup, lunch wagon…

Lourdes on October 21, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Nicotero said on Talking Dead that some of the zombies in next week’s episode are computer generated.

You’d think they could CG in some regular people in the background, fixing the fence or picking weeds from the garden, as Daryl and Rick talk in the foreground.

Also, I’m not sure how much more time/ money it would take, because they do have some scenes in every episode where there are Woodbury people milling around.

Like in last night’s episode, about ten or so Woodbury served as zombie fodder in the prison cell block, to get bit by zombies and then later shot by Daryl and Rick.

Could they not have had the ‘Zombie Fodder’ actors in the background in a previous scene, earlier in the show, mowing the lawn and fixing the fence? Does re-using the same actors during the same day or week of shooting really cost all that much more?

I just find it weird that with 35 – 45 people milling around the prison (and some do show up in some scenes, only they are just sitting around doing nothing or serving as ‘zombie food’ later) rather than shots showing them in the background planting crops or doing other chores.

Then we get a scene in the last show and the one before of Tyreese and his girlfriend goofing around.

One of those scenes may have been a night time scene, I am not sure. But why does Tyreese and his GF get to sit around all cozy in a cell playing kissy face while Daryl digs graves, Rick pulls weeds, and Carol was shown doing kitchen duty? It’s looks like only one percent of the group is doing 99% of the work around that place.

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 11:07 PM

Now all I need is for someone to explain to me what Rick accomplished, or thought he was accomplishing, by distracting the zombies for 10 minutes or so with some pig chow and I’ll be happy.

Really? The fence was about to fail and take down one of only 3 barriers to the cell block, plus blocking in and out traffic in a tight area. Rick bought time by removing the threat to the outer fence, to allow for reinforcement and repair of the weak area of their defense.

A simple ruse to get the enemy doing something unproductive and non-threatening.

I’m wondering why they haven’t exploited a glaring zombie weakness, the zombies follow noise, and they don’t use that to their advantage. I’d use that jeep and trailer, using a hammer on 55 gallon metal drum to draw the zombies miles away from the prison. Then circle back the long way out of sight or sound of the zombies. Probably would have to it weekly to keep the threat to a minimum. Oh wait, the show would be completely boring that way.

Hog Wild on October 21, 2013 at 11:13 PM

Hog Wild on October 21, 2013 at 11:13 PM

I think Nicotero addressed that on The Talking Dead.

I wasn’t paying close attention at the time, but I think he said they don’t want to use sound because it can also attract more people? (He gave some reason I just didn’t hear it clearly.)

I can also see how playing loud music may attract additional zombies from the outlying forest area to the prison, not just get the ones by the fence to go out to the field.

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 11:18 PM

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 11:18 PM

Don’t watch TD, got tired of the coy attitude of those related to the show acting as if really are sitting on pins and needles of eager anticipation for what’s going to happen next. I like the show, watch it every Sunday, but I don’t talk about it at work and my wife doesn’t want to hear anything about it.

That aside, the tactic I suggested, would it draw more zombies? Yea, until the parade passed them, and then the zombies following the noise would make an abrupt U turn once the noise was behind them. The objective is to draw the Z’s away from home base. If you have 100 at home base tearing down your fence, I call that a good place to start.

Hog Wild on October 21, 2013 at 11:35 PM

Rick is losing it. There has never been a better time to watch cable television.

long_cat on October 22, 2013 at 12:47 AM

C’mon Allah, you missed a grumble:

When the nerd kid gets sick and ‘turns’, he bites some dude in the neck, who barely reacts (surely he would scream in terror, or at least squeal or gasp). Nerd then goes on to stay there and eat him for awhile. Ok, so here’s the real grumble–all of a sudden about 10 people turn zombie totally unrelated to nerd boy.

If the Pig flu is that virulent, is anyone safe? I suspect we will not see more of it after this episode. But that is one fast reaction to a disease, and one could certainly say everyone would come down with it, but won’t. A disease outbreak is not a one-two episode thing y’know.

The purpose of this episode is that Rick (and in turn, Carl) come to the realization that being a farmer during the zombpocalyse is silly. It’s kill or be killed.

And I can’t believe Allah missed the young girl naming the Zombies as a Liberal in the making. She can’t see the danger of these undead (but hungry and animate) zombies. She names them as if they were her pet puppies. She doesn’t even seem phased by the death of her father in connection to zombies. This highlights the myopia of Liberalism. No evidence will do, it’s the warm feeling that matters.

darkmetal on October 22, 2013 at 8:57 AM

I like the Rick character, but I thought what he did was very cold – the pigs were ALIVE when he tossed them to the zombies (he put a cut on each pig’s side/leg to get the zombies attracted to the blood, but the pigs were alive when they were attacked by the zombies), ditto to the idiot who was feeding rats to the walkers through the fence, the rats were alive.

Keeping them alive meant they could run and the walkers just may go after them. It didn’t work out that way but I thought it was a good idea.
I’m betting the person feeding them is a serial killer of some sort. Who says all the people with you can be trusted.

I was creeped out by the Carol character in last night’s episode.

She was cold and unemotional. I think she may be starting to crack. She is throwing herself at Daryl and it doesn’t seem he is interested.

She was a little too fine with amputating the bit guy’s arm, then later, she seemed too blaise and peachy with sticking the knife in his head.

Fact of life and death. A death person will turn and be a danger. A knife in the head is the surest way to stop it. As far has the arm goes. She was trying to save his life. What was she supposed to do? Cry and beg for forgiveness for cutting his arm off to save him?

I also thought she was very cold with the little girls (daughters of the dead guy, neither one was over the age of ten), at first urging them to stab their own dead dad, and then, telling the crying kid at the fence (her dad just died) that she was “weak,” and how life is tough so suck it up and soldier on, toughen up, etc.

Yes, I get that Carol has her own issues and is projecting them on to the girls (she was an abused wife,her daughter was killed by a zombie), but still, could she not have an ounce more empathy for these girls who just lost their dad ten minutes before?

Nobody gets over the death of a parent in the scope of ten minutes or an hour or even a year, jeeze. Even Carol wallowed in Dead Daughter (Sophia) Grief for weeks or months before she snapped out of it, whey does she expect some kid to do more than that?

She is trying to teach the kids to survive. She already thinks not enough is being done to teach the kids and she wants them to understand that there is time to morn when you are safe. Until then you do what is needed to stay alive.

I am having a hard time understanding stuff like the weakened fence. You have about 30 – 40 people in that prison (some are newcomers from Woodbury season 3).

Based on the last two episodes, it looks like only Rick, Daryl, Glenn, and maybe Maggie, are doing 95% of the work (and occasionally, about five of the prison people run to the fence to poke zombies in the head, which takes them what, an hour out of each day, what are they doing with the remaining 23 hours?).

What the heck are the other 37, 47 people doing all day just sitting around reading books? Can’t they come out and fortify the fence during the day? Why weren’t any more of them helping Rick with the farming?

TigerPaw on October 21, 2013 at 10:00 PM

I agree but extras cost money and they are not central to the drama of the main characters. Look at any TV show or movie and you never see as many cars, people or activity as you do in real life.

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:26 AM

I don’t think there is a killer flu. I think the kid and some of the people in the cells were poisoned by the same person feeding the rats to the walkers. It’s either a crazy serial killer type or a revenge plot for the governor. Why were the bodies burned? It was obvious they had been killed in their beds and dragged outside to burn. Why? Is the killer starting to play some sort of mind game with his intended victims. Who is the killer? Someone we know or a new character?

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:31 AM

why not use piggies in cages to put outside the fence to keep the walkers away.

or piggies on pulleys like old fashioned clothes lines,
you attach a big pulley on a tree, build a tower just inside the fence. and put a pig in a cage and move him out away from the fence at about 12 feet off the ground so the walkers cant reach.
You then can fix the fence and reinforce it.

problem solved.
Heck Morgan had a version of that with rats in cages on spike traps
to impale walkers.

sniffles1999 on October 22, 2013 at 9:39 AM

I noticed it takes like 15 seconds a stab to clear off the fence
so thats 4 a minute per person.

So in 10 minutes one guy can eliminate 40 walkers,
So with only like 150 out there at a time it is actually quick work.

Then you find a roll of rope or cable and attach to the tops of the fence to keep it from being pushed down

the utility company’s do it all the time with telephone poles that are at the end of a line.

plus did they not learn anything from all the cool booby traps morgan built, spiked turnstiles with a critter in a cage in the middle, the walkers impale themselves and you can then walk up behind them and do a head chop.

sniffles1999 on October 22, 2013 at 9:45 AM

why not use piggies in cages to put outside the fence to keep the walkers away.

or piggies on pulleys like old fashioned clothes lines,
you attach a big pulley on a tree, build a tower just inside the fence. and put a pig in a cage and move him out away from the fence at about 12 feet off the ground so the walkers cant reach.
You then can fix the fence and reinforce it.

problem solved.
Heck Morgan had a version of that with rats in cages on spike traps
to impale walkers.

sniffles1999 on October 22, 2013 at 9:39 AM

I think it was a “do right now” plan rather than a long term solution. I like the spike rat traps but pits would also work. They just have to bait some pits and when they get full burn the walkers. A nice trench running in a circle would keep any walkers that stumbled into it busy for a long time. There are lots of ways to protect an area from the walkers but that would remove the danger aspect of the story.

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Do the walkers cross water?

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:49 AM

If the murderer of Tyreese’s girlfriend isn’t Carl, ultimately rejecting Rick’s off screen efforts to instill compassion in him, it will likely be a disappointment. Sasha would be my next guess pending more developments or a back story. From these last two episodes, Carol appears to be the writer’s bait for the audience’s suspicions, with Beth and the unstable girl a distant second.

derit on October 22, 2013 at 10:46 AM

If the murderer of Tyreese’s girlfriend isn’t Carl, ultimately rejecting Rick’s off screen efforts to instill compassion in him…

I’m very surprised that nobody’s even considered Bob the “Army medic” for that by this point.

Tomolena1 on October 22, 2013 at 11:08 AM

I managed to keep The Walking Dead’s pig scene from becoming the stuff of my nightmares by explaining to myself that the pigs were destined to be food anyway. It’s just that the zombies got them instead of the humans.

RebeccaH on October 22, 2013 at 12:12 PM

This season Homeland has used the flashback to show the bombing of the CIA, so I suspect next week we’ll see a flashback of Carrie and Saul hatching their plan.

SpiderMike on October 22, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:26 AM

She was cold and unemotional. I think she may be starting to crack. She is throwing herself at Daryl and it doesn’t seem he is interested.

Scenes like that, where Carol flirts with Daryl, may be due to the “Caryl” (Carol and Daryl as a romantic couple) fan base.

The “Caryl” supporters have been pestering the show writers for the past year and a half, or longer, to hook Carol up with Daryl.

They are always tweeting the show writers and producers to make those two into an ‘item.’ The actor who plays Daryl (Norman Reedus) is asked in interviews constantly if and when his character and Carol will hook up.

So the show writers are aware of this, and I think they enjoy toying with the Caryl girlies as a result,which is why you will see a brief scene where Carol says to Daryl “Hello sweetie.”

I’ve mentioned this before on other Walking Dead fans, but I do not want to see Daryl Dixon fixed up in a romance with anyone, definitely not Carol, she is all wrong for him, but there is a very loud “Caryl” fan base out there who want to see Carol and Daryl become GF/BF.

There are a lot of middle aged women clamoring to see Daryl date Carol – I am not exactly sure why.

Some of these Caryl people are quite nice, but when they start with the online swooning, rooting for Carol and Daryl to date, or they swoon any time Carol so much as says “hello” to Daryl, it makes me want to hurl.

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:26 AM

Fact of life and death. A death person will turn and be a danger. A knife in the head is the surest way to stop it. As far has the arm goes. She was trying to save his life. What was she supposed to do? Cry and beg for forgiveness for cutting his arm off to save him?

No, I don’t expect melo-dramatics from Carol over that situation, but the cold emotional robot demeanor she displayed, like chopping people’s arms off is an every day thing, or as though it does not phase her at all? I don’t buy that.

Maybe if she had worked as a medical doctor prior to the apocalypse and was used to chopping body parts off, I could buy it, because docs who do that thing for a living develop, over time, a professional detachment, but she was a mousey, scrap-booking housewife, for pity’s sake.

You yourself just said in a comment before that that she has become cold. I see her blaise attitude towards chopping an arm off as yet one more piece of evidence that she’s cold.

She is trying to teach the kids to survive. She already thinks not enough is being done to teach the kids and she wants them to understand that there is time to morn when you are safe. Until then you do what is needed to stay alive.

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:26 AM

Yes, I get her wanting the kids to learn self defense, but nothing excuses telling someone they are “weak” and “suck it up” mere minutes after they just saw their father die.

Carol herself spent months sobbing, or dealing with the death of her own daughter, Sophia, and Rick got months to sob for Lori, and he took a break from leading the group to farm to work through the grief.

So all the adults get the luxury of mourning and grieving and getting their heads together after death of a loved one, for months on end, but Carol expects a ten year old child to act as though nothing happened just 10 to 30 minutes after her father dies? :roll:

Empathy and compassion does not get totally thrown out of the window just because it’s the apocalypse.

I agree but extras cost money and they are not central to the drama of the main characters. Look at any TV show or movie and you never see as many cars, people or activity as you do in real life.

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:26 AM

They cold computer generate them in the background, if necessary. On the same day they are shooting the extra actors in one scene, they can have them film another scene two feet away.

I can’t imagine that would be too expense. I addressed this in a post further up thread because someone said the same thing you did about the expense factor.

TigerPaw on October 22, 2013 at 1:29 PM

I’ve mentioned this before on other Walking Dead fans

I meant “on other WD threads” –not ‘fans’

TigerPaw on October 22, 2013 at 1:31 PM

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:31 AM

Maybe the killer burned the bodies for the same reason Rick burned the former pig farm area – to kill off any remaining germs from the new killer virus.

TigerPaw on October 22, 2013 at 1:35 PM

sniffles1999 on October 22, 2013 at 9:39 AM

Clever solution, and the piggies get to live.

The only thing I can say in Rick’s favor is maybe Rick didn’t feel they had time to do that in that particular situation?

TigerPaw on October 22, 2013 at 1:36 PM

plus did they not learn anything from all the cool booby traps morgan built, spiked turnstiles with a critter in a cage in the middle, the walkers impale themselves and you can then walk up behind them and do a head chop.

sniffles1999 on October 22, 2013 at 9:45 AM

They do have a row of large spikes on either side of the prison gate.

TigerPaw on October 22, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Dr. Frank Enstine on October 22, 2013 at 9:47 AM

The trench/ pit idea is a good one, too. The governor and Woodbury used trenches to catch Walkers, but of course they did that to use the zombies later in sporting events or to do experiments on them, but Rick’s group could use the trenches to catch them and burn them, as you suggested.

I don’t know if the zombies on this show can cross water or not.

In some Romero film I saw, the zombies in that movie could walk along river/ lake bottoms, but I don’t know about The Walking Dead TV show.

One zombie got stuck in the mud on Hershel’s farm on The Walking Dead during the season they were on Hershel’s farm.

TigerPaw on October 22, 2013 at 1:39 PM

I managed to keep The Walking Dead’s pig scene from becoming the stuff of my nightmares by explaining to myself that the pigs were destined to be food anyway. It’s just that the zombies got them instead of the humans.

RebeccaH on October 22, 2013 at 12:12 PM

But the zombies at the pigs while the pigs were alive.

I would think if Team Rick ate the pigs, they would have at least humanely killed the pigs first before chowing down on them, they would not have bitten into the pigs while the pigs were alive.

If the murderer of Tyreese’s girlfriend isn’t Carl, ultimately rejecting Rick’s off screen efforts to instill compassion in him, it will likely be a disappointment. Sasha would be my next guess pending more developments or a back story. From these last two episodes, Carol appears to be the writer’s bait for the audience’s suspicions, with Beth and the unstable girl a distant second.

derit on October 22, 2013 at 10:46 AM

The last time a similar plot point happened, I figured it had to be Andrew the prisoner Rick ran off in a previous episode, and I was right about that

Whoever the killer is, or feeder of rats to zombies at night is, it does not necessarily have to be a character we have already seen.

The show writers could just as easily introduce a new character out of the blue, named Fred, one we’ve never seen before, and say Fred is still loyal to the governor, Fred is angry at Rick, and that’s why he’s been sabotaging everything.

Or, Fred’s motive could be different… you cannot trust every one you meet in the Zombie Apocalypse, even if at first glance they appear normal.

The Governor seemed sane until you see the show where he keeps human and zombie heads floating in aquariums, or that he keeps his zombie daughter on a leash (and he even combs her hair!)

In one of the Predator movies, all the people dropped on the planet to be hunted by the Predator aliens are military type guys, except for the one guy in the hoody, who is
*SPOILER*
a serial killer.

(Prior to being kidnapped by the Predator aliens and dropped on the jungle planet, he had been using his profession as a doctor to murder patients.)

You’re spending that movie thinking, “Why did the aliens pick this dorky guy, who has no weapons, when just about every one else the aliens choose for the hunt is big, buff, and muscular, with military experience, huge firearms, or katana swords?”

Then you find out the dorky guy with no weapons is a killer all right, but a different kind, not as overt about his killer because he is a serial killer. Maybe it will be something like that on The Walking Dead.

TigerPaw on October 22, 2013 at 1:51 PM

not as overt about his killer because he is

Should be, “not as over about his killing…”

TigerPaw on October 22, 2013 at 1:54 PM

Whoever the killer is, or feeder of rats to zombies at night is, it does not necessarily have to be a character we have already seen.

Using a red shirt character as the killer after nerdy Patrick and the girls’ dad deaths propelled the story, the writers risk losing the audience’s interest by squandering an opportunity to irreparably divide the core of the prison’s community.

derit on October 22, 2013 at 2:38 PM