Video: White House not being honest about ObamaCare problems, says Ezra Klein; Update: Obama blames Republicans, shutdown

posted at 12:31 pm on October 21, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Give Ezra Klein plenty of credit for intellectual honesty about a program that he supported for years from his perch at the Washington Post.  In his appearance on Morning Joe today, Mika Brzezinski introduced Klein with a reference to the Healthcare.gov site’s “glitches,” but Klein corrects her.  They’re not just glitches, and the front end of the website is not the real problem (via The Corner):

The Washington Post’s Ezra Klein warned that the Obama administration is underplaying the problems facing its online exchanges by simply labeling them “glitches.” Ironically, according to Klein, the websites’ incapacity to handle Internet traffic is actually preventing users from encountering what may be the sites’ biggest problem.

“These aren’t glitches,” Klein said on Morning Joe on Monday. “The website, to a first approximation, simply isn’t working.”

He explained that the more fixable problem facing the website was dealing with traffic. The bigger problem, according to Klein, was whether the right information was being sent to insurers after users enroll, including messages that users hadn’t yet enrolled even if they had.

“That is a problem, I think, that the Obama administration is and should be worried about,” he said.

Worried? Try “frightened,” Ron Fournier argues at National Journal.  After all, setting up a website should be the easy part:

2. This is the easy part. Finding and motivating people to take action online is the founding strength of Team Obama. This is what they do best.Managing a complex law is a different matter, and it’s fair to question whether the president and his team are up to it.

How do you convince healthy young Americans to pay for insurance they may not need in order to fund the program? Do companies shed workers and working hours to avoid coming under the law? Are people with cheap catastrophic plans forced to pay more in the exchanges? Tricky questions likes these will soon make the hard art of website design look like fingerpainting. “The online federal health care exchange, the heart of the Obamacare project, is such a rolling catastrophe that it may end up creating a major policy fiasco immediately rather than eventually,” wrote Ross Douthat in a New York Times column titled, “Obamacare, Failing Ahead of Schedule.”

Fournier agrees with Klein that the Obama administration isn’t being honest about the problem, and that their lack of transparency should be just as embarrassing as it is maddening.  He points out the same problem of passing bad data, and then scoffs at the White House claims that it can’t produce the proper metrics on enrollment:

The administration refuses to say how many people have enrolled through the federal exchange, the key metric for determining how well the online service is working in states that didn’t set up their own exchanges. There are two possible explanations for the Obama administration’s unconscionable lack of transparency. Their process is so screwed up that they don’t have the data, which would be embarrassing. Or they have the data – and it’s embarrassing.

The incompetence of the rollout is embarrassing no matter how one approaches it.  When it embarrasses longtime supporters like Klein badly enough to publicly call out the administration, then we know just how embarrassing it is — and how much it damages the big-government philosophy that drove it.

Update: Talk about dishonest — did Obama actually blame the shutdown? Yes, he did:

“About three weeks ago, as the federal government shutdown, and the Affordable Care Act’s health insurance marketplaces opened up across the country,” said Obama. “Well, we’ve now gotten the government back open for the American people and today I want to talk about how were going to get the marketplaces running at full steam as well.”

Say what? The White House had three and a half years to get this ready, and it rolled out on the same day as the shutdown.  The website issues existed long before the shutdown, and the Obama administration was well aware of them before the shutdown and decided to proceed anyway.  Talk about spin.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 4 5 6 7

Arkadin? Why does your deductible have nothing to do with anything? Clarify that please.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:22 PM

Because the deductible, as well as the other features of my plan, did not change with the rate increase.

If my deductible went from say $500 to $2500, then you could say I got a small increase at the cost of a high deductible.

But I am comparing apples to apples, which I am not even sure the Heritage fake comparison is doing.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Of course, my deductible has nothing to do with anything, but keep throwing whatever you can come up with, something’s bound to stick.
 
Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:01 PM

 
That’s a great point. Speaking of, you seem very informed on the topic, so can you help us with something?
 
Obamacare was passed to solve the free rider problem:
 

“So that’s why the individual mandate’s important,” Obama explained in a speech on Aug. 15, 2011.
 
“Because the basic theory is, look, everybody here at some point or another is going to need medical care, and you can’t be a free-rider on everybody else,” said Obama.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=14952502&sid=77&cid=77

 

The tax/fine on a person making $43K who doesn’t want or can’t afford insurance will only equal about $860 (vs. thousands in premiums and deductibles), and $860 will barely cover any actual medical procedure.
 
Hospitals will still be required by law to provide care regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay.
 
Can you give specifics on how Obamacare does anything to change the free rider problem, please?

rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Because the deductible, as well as the other features of my plan, did not change with the rate increase.

If my deductible went from say $500 to $2500, then you could say I got a small increase at the cost of a high deductible.

But I am comparing apples to apples, which I am not even sure the Heritage fake comparison is doing.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:33 PM

That’s a pretty good deductible. So you must have bought the best plan they had. I didn’t know that there was a $2500 deductible available. Did you get that straight from Anthem BCBS site or from the Obamacare site?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Wow. Sounds really good. I’m on Anthem’s Virginia site now and I can’t find it, even for a 27 year old.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Snicker. Neither could I.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Then you are both a little challenged. No wonder you can’t find your way around Heathcare.gov.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anthem.com%2Fshared%2Fva%2Ff1%2Fs1%2Ft1%2Fpw_e181033.pdf%3Frefer%3Dahpfooter&ei=_cdlUvLQMJan4AOs_oGIDg&usg=AFQjCNG2IBmgy7U8E08tsLSSo6LiSEnW6Q&bvm=bv.54934254,d.dmg

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Actually, when I said Heritage was lying, and their model/data was fake, I was not being sarcastic.

When I wrote the following:

But I am sure their predictions for the other states are dead on. I’m probably an outlier. My bad.

I was being sarcastic.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Yeah, which is why your response to davidk makes no sense. The “claim you couldn’t support” is that all of the other Heritage numbers are wrong.

But please, in lieu of debunking the Heritage model, tell me more about the exotic cuisine offered up at 7-11.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 8:37 PM

Then you are both a little challenged. No wonder you can’t find your way around Heathcare.gov.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:36 P

LOL. Like I’d spend one nanosecond on that piece of crap website.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anthem.com%2Fshared%2Fva%2Ff1%2Fs1%2Ft1%2Fpw_e181033.pdf%3Frefer%3Dahpfooter&ei=_cdlUvLQMJan4AOs_oGIDg&usg=AFQjCNG2IBmgy7U8E08tsLSSo6LiSEnW6Q&bvm=bv.54934254,d.dmg

Bad link.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Hey. I know I’m kinda challenged and all, but you just sent a link to a 2011 PPO plan. Are you sure that is what you bought? Oh, and you just said Resist and I might have trouble navigating healthcare.gov, but this link is from Anthem directly.

I hope you have the right information. It would be terrible if you had to pay more than what you are quoting us here.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Hey. I know I’m kinda challenged and all, but you just sent a link to a 2011 PPO plan. ….

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:41 PM

I swear the troll only gets funnier.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Staying at the office until 8? Problems at home, boss?

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Don’t tell me, you live in one of those country towns that shut down at 5. I work until ten, but get a late start.

I am at work, its slow, and I am bored. You, presumably, are at home with your loving family. So why are you wasting your time with this crap? Wife in the next room watching CSI?

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:44 PM

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Comparing 2011 prices with 2014 prices is comparing apples to apples or something.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Then you are both a little challenged. No wonder you can’t find your way around Heathcare.gov.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anthem.com%2Fshared%2Fva%2Ff1%2Fs1%2Ft1%2Fpw_e181033.pdf%3Frefer%3Dahpfooter&ei=_cdlUvLQMJan4AOs_oGIDg&usg=AFQjCNG2IBmgy7U8E08tsLSSo6LiSEnW6Q&bvm=bv.54934254,d.dmg

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Okay, that’s great, you linked us to a plan from 2011.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Bad link.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:40 PM

*snicker*

BigWyo on October 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM

What’s funny is the trolls not even daring to laugh at the President and this debacle. How does Obama define success? We set a low bar in electing this guy and now it has spread to Obamacare. Nice work America.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Success.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/at-the-white-house-obamacare-success-stories-that-arent/article/2537478

And the “toadies” eat it up.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 8:48 PM

Comparing 2011 prices with 2014 prices is comparing apples to apples or something.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Apples go bad.

He’s at work. So Ark? Is your 2011 policy through work? I’d call HR and make sure they aren’t feeding you a line of horse apples.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Hey. I know I’m kinda challenged and all, but you just sent a link to a 2011 PPO plan. Are you sure that is what you bought? Oh, and you just said Resist and I might have trouble navigating healthcare.gov, but this link is from Anthem directly.

I hope you have the right information. It would be terrible if you had to pay more than what you are quoting us here.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Is the weed affecting your short-term memory? You and Resist said you were at Anthem and could not find the plan. There it is. Took me 30 seconds, from the Anthem site.

Of course, that plan was introduced in 2011, which is when I switched over to it. The Summary of Benefits booklet I have at home says 2011 too, but I guess they should reprint it every couple of months so folks like you don’t get confused.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Might be a 2012 plan as the date is 9/2011…

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:51 PM

Don’t tell me, you live in one of those country towns that shut down at 5. I work until ten, but get a late start.

Ahh, so you’re lazy. Good to know.

Yeah, I live in a little cow-town with about a million people in it. Pretty sure most of them don’t troll websites at their office until 10 PM, though.

Lulz, a guy from Virginia is going to call me a hick. What’s the biggest city you’ve got, Virginia Beach? Newport News? That big-city condescension is so ill-fitting on a non-NYC resident.

I am at work, its slow, and I am bored. You, presumably, are at home with your loving family. So why are you wasting your time with this crap? Wife in the next room watching CSI?

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Nope, no loving family. If I had one, I’d hope I didn’t waste my nights online arguing with morons.

CSI still exists? Did you mean to type NCIS?

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Yep never an insult from ye keyboard. Never.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 7:23 PM

Well not never, but most of your ‘examples’…aren’t.
My remark to davidk was sincere and snark free.
Not to be insulting, but maybe you have a tough time seeing that?

Even as esteemed an HA’r as RWM might offer that I’m not a complete d*ck.

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Is the weed affecting your short-term memory? You and Resist said you were at Anthem and could not find the plan. There it is. Took me 30 seconds, from the Anthem site.

Of course, that plan was introduced in 2011, which is when I switched over to it. The Summary of Benefits booklet I have at home says 2011 too, but I guess they should reprint it every couple of months so folks like you don’t get confused.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:50 PM

But you said you got a new Obamacare plan at $264 per month? I gotta put the pipe down dude. What gives?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Comparing 2011 prices with 2014 prices is comparing apples to apples or something.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:44 PM

The plan is from 2011. The prices I quoted are current.

You know, like, you can have a plan in 2014 that you purchased in 2011, with different pricing. It was around $200 when I first signed on.

I’ve have said repeatedly that my plan is not through work, it is an individual plan, something that I suspect none of you have any experience with.

I thought libertarians were supposed to be the smart ones.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:53 PM

The Summary of Benefits booklet I have at home says 2011 too, but I guess they should reprint it every couple of months so folks like you don’t get confused.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:50 PM

You’d better hope that they reprinted the benefits booklet since ALL insurance plans must now have ‘minimum essential benefits’ like maternity, mental health, paediatric dental, etc.

You and Resist said you were at Anthem and could not find the plan. There it is. Took me 30 seconds, from the Anthem site.

Couldn’t find the plan at the cost you suggest.

Again, how old are you?

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Again, for the pot smokers and slow pokes:

The prices I quoted are current, not from 2011.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Even as esteemed an HA’r as RWM might offer that I’m not a complete d*ck.

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 8:52 PM

There you are. Questions? Any answers?

I know. Next you will say, “What questions do you mean?”

Did you sign up for Obamacare?

Do you know anyone that has?

What was every one of their savings?

Did you sign your business up for Obamacare?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Of course, that plan was introduced in 2011, which is when I switched over to it. The Summary of Benefits booklet I have at home says 2011 too, but I guess they should reprint it every couple of months so folks like you don’t get confused.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Yes, because absolutely nothing will change from the 2011 cost structure after the drop-dead date for Obamacare hits.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Again, for the pot smokers and slow pokes:

The prices I quoted are current, not from 2011.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:54 PM

So. Current as in your company pays X amount, and you pay Y amount? Y being the $264?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Yes, because absolutely nothing will change from the 2011 cost structure after the drop-dead date for Obamacare hits.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 8:55 PM

That truly is remarkable isn’t it?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Verby? Questions? Answers?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:58 PM

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 8:52 PM

You’re almost as hilarious in your games as Arkadin.

At least you admit you’re a hypocrite.

Funny the questions and issues you choose to address. So hard hitting.

Pathetic.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 8:58 PM

Verby? Questions? Answers?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:58 PM

Heh. It lies and makes shit up. It avoids questions it cannot answer and instead concentrates on the trite.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 8:59 PM

You know, like, you can have a plan in 2014 that you purchased in 2011, with different pricing. It was around $200 when I first signed on.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:53 PM

It’s not the ‘same’ plan…unless your plan covered essential health benefits, as prescribed by Obamacare.

The Affordable Care Act ensures health plans offered in the individual and small group markets, both inside and outside of the Health Insurance Marketplace, offer a comprehensive package of items and services, known as essential health benefits. Essential health benefits MUST include items and services within at least the following 10 categories:

1. ambulatory patient services;

2. emergency services;

3. hospitalization;

4. maternity and newborn care;

5. mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment;

6. prescription drugs;

7. rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices;

8. laboratory services;

9. preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management; and,

10. pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/essential-health-benefits/

I’ve have said repeatedly that my plan is not through work, it is an individual plan, something that I suspect none of you have any experience with.

I know that you have an individual plan.

Why would you think that I have no experience with an individual plan? I’ve only had an individual plan for some time.

I thought libertarians were supposed to be the smart ones.

We are.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Oldroy – here I am.
Sorry to keep you waiting.

No, I haven’t signed up. As we’ve discussed I am already insured.

Now you…here we are.
Let’s do your math. I recall you were going to opt to go without insurance? I think you had said in New Mexico you had heard rates were going to be astronomical or something.
Where are you with all of it now?

(I won’t be on long this eve. So if I miss ya, happy to have an honest exchange later.)

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM

But you said you got a new Obamacare plan at $264 per month? I gotta put the pipe down dude. What gives?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Nope. Never. Not once. I said the premium on my current individual plan went up. I purchased my plan in 2011, when my previous plan was phased out. I have not yet shopped on an exchange, because I do not have to.

Again, how old are you?

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:54 PM

47

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM

47

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM

$264, 2500. At 47.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM

AGAIN Verby:

…… can you help us with something?

Obamacare was passed to solve the free rider problem:

“So that’s why the individual mandate’s important,” Obama explained in a speech on Aug. 15, 2011.

“Because the basic theory is, look, everybody here at some point or another is going to need medical care, and you can’t be a free-rider on everybody else,” said Obama.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=14952502&sid=77&cid=77

The tax/fine on a person making $43K who doesn’t want or can’t afford insurance will only equal about $860 (vs. thousands in premiums and deductibles), and $860 will barely cover any actual medical procedure.

Hospitals will still be required by law to provide care regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay.

Can you give specifics on how Obamacare does anything to change the free rider problem, please?

rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 8:34 PM

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM

So. Current as in your company pays X amount, and you pay Y amount? Y being the $264?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:57 PM

You may know that I have an individual plan, Resist, but oldroy is having reading comprehension problems.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM

(I won’t be on long this eve. So if I miss ya, happy to have an honest exchange later.)

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM

Finish answering the questions. I’ve answered your question already. New Mexico published their rate sheets.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Comparing 2011 prices with 2014 prices is comparing apples to apples or something.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:44 PM

What ever do you mean?
Don’t the insurance companies only increase their rates when there is Obamacare? /

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:03 PM

(I won’t be on long this eve. So if I miss ya, happy to have an honest exchange later.)

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM

Most comedic line of the night. Thanks!

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 9:03 PM

What ever do you mean?
Don’t the insurance companies only increase their rates when there is Obamacare? /

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Oh so Obama didn’t really mean it when he said most people’s rates would go down….hmmm… interesint.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 9:04 PM

*interesting.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 9:04 PM

You know, like, you can have a plan in 2014 that you purchased in 2011, with different pricing. It was around $200 when I first signed on.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:53 PM

Ah, yes….”if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.”

Yup, heard that one before. :D

I have not yet shopped on an exchange, because I do not have to.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM

So you haven’t checked prices on the exchanges, but you know the Heritage estimates are wrong because….genies told you? Magic 8-Ball?

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 9:05 PM

You may know that I have an individual plan, Resist, but oldroy is having reading comprehension problems.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM

Individual. 47. $2500. $264.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:05 PM

$264, 2500. At 47.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM

Yes. Virginia has an excellent, highly competitive individual insurance market. My business partner is 45, same deductible, same plan, pays a little less, around 240, for some reason.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:05 PM

(I won’t be on long this eve. So if I miss ya, happy to have an honest exchange later.)

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM

Finish answering the questions. I’ve answered your question already. New Mexico published their rate sheets.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:03 PM

I did. You haven’t.

I don’t store up links like rogerb…so you’ll have to refresh me on your circumstances. All I recall is you’re in NM, 50-ish, a cpl?
I think your story was that you’d shopped and got told $700 a month but with ACA it would go to $900. And either way, you wouldn’t insure…cause you’d lose your house?
But maybe I have that wrong?

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Yes. Virginia has an excellent, highly competitive individual insurance market. My business partner is 45, same deductible, same plan, pays a little less, around 240, for some reason.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:05 PM

Good for you. Does that mean other states do too? And you know what the rates are in other states?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Yes. Virginia has an excellent, highly competitive individual insurance market. My business partner is 45, same deductible, same plan, pays a little less, around 240, for some reason.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:05 PM

Gosh, if they could do it so well in Virginia, it makes you wonder why we needed the ACA in the first place.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 9:09 PM

AGAIN Verby:

….
CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 9:02 PM

909pm

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Good for you. Does that mean other states do too? And you know what the rates are in other states?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Well, he must, since he said the Heritage numbers were false.

He’s being awfully tight-lipped about it, though.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM

But maybe I have that wrong?

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:07 PM

$450 last year. $900 this year for “Silver”. $1100 for “Gold”.

Yes. Either way. I’m going to gamble with your money. Because if it’s all “our” money, then it doesn’t really matter what I do, because “we” will all pay for it somehow.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM

Verby you ability to avoid the hard questions in masterful . Later you dishonest pos.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM

Verby? People known to you that have signed up and their savings?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Verby you ability to avoid the hard questions in masterful shameful . Later you dishonest pos.

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM

fify

Murphy9 on October 21, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Again, how old are you?

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 8:54 PM

47

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM

So, what you are admitting is that Heritage never projected your health insurance premium.

Why?

Because the graphic only predicts cost increases for people ages 27 and 50, along with families of four.

http://predicthistunpredictpast.blogspot.com/2013/10/graphic-of-day-how-much-will-you-pay.html

IOW, you were either lying or are incapable of reading a chart:

Only went up 17%. Good for you!

CWchangedhisNicagain on October 21, 2013 at 7:39 PM

Yup, instead of the 200+% Heritage said it would.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 7:52 PM

Again, why? Because the ONLY 3 categories Heritage predicted were:

1. Adult Age 27

2. Adult Age 50

3. Family of Four

And, since you said that you have an individual policy, #3 is irrelevant.

If you were neither 27 nor 50 – and YOU ARE NOT – then the Heritage projections do not apply to YOU.

So, who’s lying, again?

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 9:11 PM

What ever do you mean?
Don’t the insurance companies only increase their rates when there is Obamacare? /

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:03 PM

It is ‘whatever.’

He linked to a 2011 plan, which is no longer in effect.

Some people will see their premiums go down – mainly those with preexisting conditions- but the majority of people will see the premiums increase. You cannot add expensive benefits without having premiums increase.

Maybe, Chad ‘Milli Vanilli’ Henderson can explain Obamacare to you.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 9:15 PM

davidk on October 21, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Sorry, next time I’ll use a sarc tag for the special-needs posters on the site.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:21 PM

So you can support your assertion that Heritage’s figures are bogus.

I would like to learn how you know that. Make sure you dumb down the explanation for special-needs me.

(BTW kids with ADD are considered special needs students. I have ADD. Should I feel offended? I not very progressive thinking.)

davidk on October 21, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Good for you. Does that mean other states do too? And you know what the rates are in other states?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:07 PM

I don’t care about other states; I only care that Heritage lied about the one I live in.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 9:11 PM

O.K., Resist, you caught me. I’m 47, three years out from 50. My insurance went up 17%, but if I were three years older it would go up 256.5%. I concede. Heritage nailed it.

/sarc (that’s for you, davidk)

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Also. The premiums in the Heritage chart are not made up. They are from the exchanges. The modeling would just be “27, male, non-smoker” etc.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:17 PM

O.K., Resist, you caught me. I’m 47, three years out from 50. My insurance went up 17%, but if I were three years older it would go up 256.5%. I concede. Heritage nailed it.

/sarc (that’s for you, davidk)

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:17 PM

How can you claim that a model predicted what your insurance premiums would do when it doesn’t even address you?

Now, tell us, did your 2011 individual plan cover maternity and have the minimum benefits package?

BTW, I find your premium at your age highly dubious.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 9:20 PM

$450 last year. $900 this year for “Silver”. $1100 for “Gold”.

Yes. Either way. I’m going to gamble with your money. Because if it’s all “our” money, then it doesn’t really matter what I do, because “we” will all pay for it somehow.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:10 PM

All the est. calcs show $435ish for you and your wife.
Silver plan.
But as you say, it matters not to you if it’s $100 or $1000…you’re just dang not gonna pay, so you may as well pretend it’s $900.
But for that reason, this isn’t really about you.
Nothing can fully stop free riders – and of course you’ll have care available to you in emergency rooms at at free clinics.
Many with less income and security will make different and IMHO more responsible decisions – which will ironically benefit folks like you.
Stay fit and healthy!

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:21 PM

All the est. calcs show $435ish for you and your wife.
Silver plan.

Yeah. Wife. That means it’s double that $435 for silver, for a company I’ve never heard of. I see you found the rate sheets. There is no listing of Doctors available, nothing in terms of service. Nothing.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:24 PM

It is ‘whatever.’

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 9:15 PM

Noted.
Thanks.
Perhaps a result of trying to get a 4th grader to stop saying ‘whatevah’ all the time.

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Verby? You understand these rates for a single person are what families here were used to paying? And the deductibles? They are for each, not for both.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:26 PM

Verby? Questions? Who do you know that signed up and what is their savings? Do they know what their deductibles are and how they will be applied?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:27 PM

I don’t care about other states; I only care that Heritage lied about the one I live in.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Heritage was modeling prices on the Exchanges, which you admitted to not using. So they “lied,” even though their data wasn’t at all germane to your situation.

And since they’re just “making it up,” seems strange that they’d note that premiums are expected to go down in Ohio and Colorado, two pretty important purple states.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 9:27 PM

Heritage was modeling prices on the Exchanges, which you admitted to not using. So they “lied,” even though their data wasn’t at all germane to your situation.

And since they’re just “making it up,” seems strange that they’d note that premiums are expected to go down in Ohio and Colorado, two pretty important purple states.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 9:27 PM

Yeah. He didn’t get it on the exchange, but he’s upset that Heritage quoted the exchange data. Makes you wonder if he’ll be next in line for one of those cancellations.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Claim: Heritage scrubbed their obamacare prototype, which was too

progressive for obama, from their website.

Fact: The Pamphlet of the Heritage proposal, which is too progressive for obama, is not longer available. The webpage that contained access to the Pamphlet simply states, “This report is currently available only in PDF format.”

However it is available at http://www.amazon.com/National-Health-System-America-Critical/dp/0891950494 for $248.83. Further proof that Heritage is trying to hide the truth. They should make it free–with subsidies.

A lecture by Stuart M. Butler, upon which the “Heritage healthcare proposal” which was too progressive for obama, is available as a .pdf file at http://healthcarereform.procon.org/sourcefiles/1989_assuring_affordable_health_care_for_all_americans.pdf .

Or, if Heritage is to be believed, at http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/assuring-affordable-health-care-for-all-americans .

I don’t know how close the lecture is to the book. I don’t have $248.83 to purchase the pamphlet. Or the deductible–which is none of your business.

One of the “three serious underlying problems with the current health care system” according to Butler (in 1989) is employer provided insurance “the net result [of which] is a tendency for prices in the health care area to rise very rapidly because neither provider nor consumer is sensitive to cost.”

Secondly, he thinks this is unfair to workers who do not have employer provided insurance. They have to pay their own (expensive due to employer provided insurance) costs.

Thirdly, some people choose not to purchase insurance and therefore are not insured and that’s not fair because the .

Solutions? One that he does not like:

Unfortunately, many of the seemingly attractive proposals being offered have such serious side effects that they would be a step backward. Government-Funded Systems Consider the government-funded national health systems such as those found in Britain and Sweden.

The system in Canada, now so fashionable as a Proposed panacea, is similar to these European models established many years ago. In these systems, all citizens have virtually free access to hospitals and physicians, and government pays the cost. In Britain, even millionaires and royalty can, if they wish, receive free medical care.

The problem with these systems is that, with government controlling the purse strings and a system that is free at the point of consumption, demand for services always outstrips the supply. Thus Britain has for many years functioned on a triage principle. Rationing based on such factors a s age and political sensitivity in practice determine who gets what services.

In addition, long waits – sometimes months or ev[en] years for services that would be treated as urgent in the U.S. – are endemic to the British system. Canada is twenty-rive year s behind Britain, but we are beginning to see the same system of rationing and shortages slowly emerge within the Canadian system.

I’m burned out with this so if you want to learn more about what Heritage is hiding, you can read the lecture at http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/assuring-affordable-health-care-for-all-americans .

Wait. Is that on the Heritage website? Very clever of them; hiding it in plain sight.

davidk on October 21, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Verbyslooper? You know that not a single person has signed up in New Mexico? Not one?

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:30 PM

Verby? You understand these rates for a single person are what families here were used to paying? And the deductibles? They are for each, not for both.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:26 PM

My friend, I just don’t see how you’re getting that.
Try using this estimate calculator.

(Gotta go.)

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:31 PM

NBC News: Man Trying To Sign Up For Obamacare Spends 4.5 Hours On The Phone, 5 Hours On Website, 3 Hours Live-Chat, Still No Luck…

Safe to say he won’t be appearing in the next “Obamacare is super easy” HHS ad.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 9:31 PM

Claim: Heritage scrubbed their obamacare prototype, which was too

progressive for obama, from their website.

Fact: The Pamphlet of the Heritage proposal, which is too progressive for obama, is not longer available. The webpage that contained access to the Pamphlet simply states, “This report is currently available only in PDF format.”

However it is available at http://www.amazon.com/National-Health-System-America-Critical/dp/0891950494 for $248.83. Further proof that Heritage is trying to hide the truth. They should make it free–with subsidies.

A lecture by Stuart M. Butler, upon which the “Heritage healthcare proposal” which was too progressive for obama, is available as a .pdf file at http://healthcarereform.procon.org/sourcefiles/1989_assuring_affordable_health_care_for_all_americans.pdf .

Or, if Heritage is to be believed, at http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/assuring-affordable-health-care-for-all-americans .

I don’t know how close the lecture is to the book. I don’t have $248.83 to purchase the pamphlet. Or the deductible–which is none of your business.

One of the “three serious underlying problems with the current health care system” according to Butler (in 1989) is employer provided insurance “the net result [of which] is a tendency for prices in the health care area to rise very rapidly because neither provider nor consumer is sensitive to cost.”

Secondly, he thinks this is unfair to workers who do not have employer provided insurance. They have to pay their own (expensive due to employer provided insurance) costs.

Thirdly, some people choose not to purchase insurance and therefore are not insured and that’s not fair because the .

Solutions? One that he does not like:

Unfortunately, many of the seemingly attractive proposals being offered have such serious side effects that they would be a step backward. Government-Funded Systems Consider the government-funded national health systems such as those found in Britain and Sweden.

The system in Canada, now so fashionable as a Proposed panacea, is similar to these European models established many years ago. In these systems, all citizens have virtually free access to hospitals and physicians, and government pays the cost. In Britain, even millionaires and royalty can, if they wish, receive free medical care.

The problem with these systems is that, with government controlling the purse strings and a system that is free at the point of consumption, demand for services always outstrips the supply. Thus Britain has for many years functioned on a triage principle. Rationing based on such factors a s age and political sensitivity in practice determine who gets what services.

In addition, long waits – sometimes months or ev[en] years for services that would be treated as urgent in the U.S. – are endemic to the British system. Canada is twenty-rive year s behind Britain, but we are beginning to see the same system of rationing and shortages slowly emerge within the Canadian system.

I’m burned out with this so if you want to learn more about what Heritage is hiding, you can read the lecture at the website above.

The Heritage website. The one from which it was scrubbed.

davidk on October 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM

(Gotta go.)

verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:31 PM

Of course you do. Try and get that list of people you know who have signed up and what their savings are, and what their deductibles are for next time.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM

All we need now is Bradky to explain how that overwhelming amount of Kentucky signups were only just applications that were started.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 9:35 PM

The Heritage website. The one from which it was scrubbed.

davidk on October 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Not bad for a special-needs poster. :D

Good Solid B-Plus on October 21, 2013 at 9:36 PM

From davidk’s link

If the Heritage Foundation were of any intellectual capacity, they would provide accurate data comparisons, not cherry picked aberrations to uphold their ultra right wing leanings. My sincere sympathy for the brainless, poorly educated minions who must rely upon inaccurate information to lead their direction. As an example; in Florida, the actual data, as reported by the (republican controlled) state insurance comptrollers office; “…the overall average savings in healthcare premiums for those not presently covered by employers or who are presently paying high premiums will exceed 58% in the coming year.” Based on a population of over nine million residents who will take advantage of the ACA, the savings will average $474.00 per month. THIS from republicans.

I see this all the time. The left dismisses anything from heritage, it doesn’t matter how clear the data sources and analysis is.

Murphy9 on October 21, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Based on a Manhattan Institute analysis of the HHS numbers, Obamacare will increase underlying insurance rates for younger men by an average of 97 to 99 percent, and for younger women by an average of 55 to 62 percent. Worst off is North Carolina, which will see individual-market rates triple for women, and quadruple for men.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/

effin’ liars

davidk on October 21, 2013 at 9:42 PM

I’m just glad I fget to pay for contraception, pre-natal care, births, mamograms, etc. As a single male, that is important.

Murphy9 on October 21, 2013 at 9:47 PM

http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/2013/MarketplacePremiums/ib_marketplace_premiums.cfm

Someone else can scope this out if they want. Me n Momma are going to bed. I got some special needs.

davidk on October 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM

I was being sarcastic.

Mr. Arkadope on October 21, 2013 at 8:29 PM

…no!…that’s not your problem!

KOOLAID2 on October 21, 2013 at 9:53 PM

I’m just glad I fget to pay for contraception, pre-natal care, births, mamograms, etc. As a single male, that is important.

Murphy9 on October 21, 2013 at 9:47 PM

I like paying for the paediatric vision and dental benefits for the kids that I do not have.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Nothing can fully stop free riders – and of course you’ll have care available to you in emergency rooms at at free clinics.
Many with less income and security will make different and IMHO more responsible decisions – which will ironically benefit folks like you.
Stay fit and healthy!
 
verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:21 PM

 
I’m guessing that was an attempt at trying to almost sort of respond to my
 

The tax/fine on a person making $43K who doesn’t want or can’t afford insurance will only equal about $860 (vs. thousands in premiums and deductibles), and $860 will barely cover any actual medical procedure.
 
Hospitals will still be required by law to provide care regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay.
 
Can you give specifics on how Obamacare does anything to change the free rider problem, please?

 
Thanks. It’s interesting that you’d suggest the entire premise for the individual mandate is flawed.
 
Regardless, thanks for the near-response.
 

Many with less income and security will make different and IMHO more responsible decisions

 
That’s faith-based. I’m not interested in your religion. Tell us what are we looking at with percentages. A 3% decrease in free-riders?
 
7%
 
Surely you’ve got actual numbers.

rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 10:11 PM

The two closest things we’ve gotten to a response on the free-rider status quo, btw:
 

Genuine, knowing that $95 will barely cover a routine doctor visit and that hospitals will still be required by law to provide care regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay, do you think Obamacare will do anything to change the free rider problem?
 
rogerb on October 7, 2013 at 1:23 PM

 
Well it’ll do more to address it than simply scrapping the whole thing and going back to the old system where it was a huge problem driving up health care costs for everyone exorbitantly…
 
Genuine on October 7, 2013 at 1:33 PM

 
And then this honest opinion:
 

Can you give specifics on how Obamacare does anything to change the free rider problem, please?
 
rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 8:34 PM

 
Many with less income and security will make different and IMHO more responsible decisions – which will ironically benefit folks like you.
Stay fit and healthy!
 
verbaluce on October 21, 2013 at 9:21 PM

 
Anyone notice any similarities?
 
Anyone notice what’s missing? (Hint: Rhymes with specifics.)

rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 10:18 PM

…for the special-needs posters on the site.
 
Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 8:21 PM

 
I can scarcely conceive of a 47 year old man who thinks joking about special-needs children and adults is in any way appropriate. Well, other than our president, of course.
 
Apparently that’s how people are raised outside of country towns, though.

rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 10:29 PM

… So Ark? Is your 2011 policy through work? I’d call HR and make sure they aren’t feeding you a line of horse apples.
oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Not to worry.

Mr Arkadin is a highly successful business owner. He buys his own insurance. No HR drones lie to him.

He is BOSS.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 10:34 PM

Well, what do you know, we can find actual exchange premiums and compare them to the premiums predicted by Heritage’s “model”.

Granted this comes from HHS, but that’s where Heritage supposedly got their data, isn’t it, before running it through their “model”?

They only give data for 27 year-olds, and families of four.

Here in Virginia, for a 27 year-old with income of $25,000, Heritage predicted an exchange premium of $581.55. Premium for second lowest silver plan w/out tax credit – $221.00. With tax credit, $145.00.

Four family of four, income of 50,000, Heritage predicted premium of $1,964.29; actual premium without tax credit – $799.00. With tax credit – $282.00.

Heritage lied about other states, too, but not as drastically: http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/2013/marketplacepremiums/ib_marketplace_premiums.cfm

Looks like Heritage’s model was designed by the same wonks who did ICC’s climate change stuff.

Gnight, got to go home and ignore my family!

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 11:03 PM

I can scarcely conceive of a 47 year old man who thinks joking about special-needs children and adults is in any way appropriate. Well, other than our president, of course.

Apparently that’s how people are raised outside of country towns, though.

rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 10:29 PM

Oh, and one last thing. Your retreat into political correctness isn’t fooling anyone. There is scarcely a poster on this site who is a saint, you included. Spare me.

Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 11:11 PM

We’ve got to quit tip-toeing around words. Obama does not engage in “spin”, he lies…repeatedly.

Kenz on October 22, 2013 at 2:56 AM

I can scarcely conceive of a 47 year old man who thinks joking about special-needs children and adults is in any way appropriate. Well, other than our president, of course.
 
Apparently that’s how people are raised outside of country towns, though.
 
rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 10:29 PM

 
Oh, and one last thing. Your retreat into political correctness isn’t fooling anyone. There is scarcely a poster on this site who is a saint, you included. Spare me.
 
Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 11:11 PM

 
So you believe other parents don’t point at and laugh about mentally retarded children only because they’re being “politically correct”?
 
Wow.

rogerb on October 22, 2013 at 6:48 AM

I’m a Tea Party Member and I think all of this is so funny. Here’s what is going to happen–After everybody has their premiums double, triple, or quadruple, or even have their insurance dropped, then Americans are going to sit back and say: Ted Cruz was right. This law is the Democrat’s, and they will have to sell it in 2014, and I don’t think they can. Botox Pelosi’s famous statement: We have to pass the Healthcare Law so we can find out what’s in it. We have found out what’s in it and it stinks just like Democrats do.

tmgrant on October 22, 2013 at 7:17 AM

I’m just glad I fget to pay for contraception, pre-natal care, births, mamograms, etc. As a single male, that is important.

Murphy9 on October 21, 2013 at 9:47 PM

I like paying for the paediatric vision and dental benefits for the kids that I do not have.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Like paying for professional union-bloated over-payed babysitters to watch the kids that I do not have.

davidk on October 22, 2013 at 10:07 AM

rogerb on October 22, 2013 at 6:48 AM

You know what, rogerz, you are right. Of course, as usual, you are lying, as I never made fun of special needs children or adults; I only made fun of you, and a couple of others on this thread. Still, even to use the words “special needs” in a derogatory fashion is, in any context, disgusting, and I am ashamed.

Mr. Arkadin’s work is done; he has slaughtered his old friends, in word if not in deed, and he has written something for which his beloved daughter shall never forgive him. Time to jump out of the plane. Bye…..

Mr. Arkadin on October 22, 2013 at 11:04 AM

And someone expected President nOBlAMAme to take responsibility for this fiasco?

billsheck on October 22, 2013 at 11:16 AM

rogerb on October 22, 2013 at 6:48 AM

 
You know what, rogerz, you are right. Of course, as usual, you are lying,

 
What an interesting thing to say.
 
Link, please.
 

as I never made fun of special needs children or adults;

 
Yes, which is clearly why your immediate response to
 

I can scarcely conceive of a 47 year old man who thinks joking about special-needs children and adults is in any way appropriate.
 
rogerb on October 21, 2013 at 10:29 PM

 
was
 

Oh, and one last thing. Your retreat into political correctness isn’t fooling anyone.
 
Mr. Arkadin on October 21, 2013 at 11:11 PM

 
and not
 

I never made fun of special needs children or adults

rogerb on October 22, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Comment pages: 1 4 5 6 7