AP: Half a million ObamaCare applications does not equal half a million ObamaCare enrollments

posted at 12:01 pm on October 21, 2013 by Erika Johnsen

The Obama administration was originally hoping for about half a million total enrollments in the ObamaCare system in the month following its debut (although they have subsequently tried to pretend that they most certainly never even set enrollment targets, thank you very much), and the most topical numbers might suggest to the untrained eye that things are going OK. As the Associated Press detailed over the weekend, however, the numbers that the White House deigned to provide to them — 19 million website visitors and half a million successful applications — do not a half a million enrollments make:

Administration officials say about 476,000 health insurance applications have been filed through federal and state exchanges, the most detailed measure yet of the problem-plagued rollout of President Barack Obama’s signature legislation.

However, the officials continue to refuse to say how many people have actually enrolled in the insurance markets. Without enrollment figures, it’s unclear whether the program is on track to reach the 7 million people projecting by the Congressional Budget Office to gain coverage during the six-month sign-up period. …

Interest in the insurance markets appears to continue to be high. Officials said about 19 million people had visited HealthCare.gov as of Friday night. …

Of the 476,000 applications that have been started, just over half have been from the 36 states where the federal government is taking the lead in running the markets. The rest of the applications have come from the 14 states running their own markets, along with Washington, D.C.

So, almost half a million people have managed to apply, but once they can [attempt to] shop for the insurance plans for which they’re qualified (maybe? As Ed informed us this morning, that’s a whole other glitchy story), will they actually make the leap and buy them? Once again, the young people especially that they need to sign up to financially undergird the system might be deterred by the higher costs they’re likely to pay in all but a handful of states, and that uncomfortable fact along with the rash of technical glitches means that the White House is sweating. A lot.

Julie Pace, the AP journalist on the story above, explained on Fox News Sunday:

The administration and the White House in particular is very worried about this. They have spent a lot of time, a lot of money on this program, and you can’t say that this rollout has been anything short of embarrassing for the president. He’s going to come out on Monday. He’s going to address these problems. It’s the first time we’ll really have seen him do that… So, the applications, you have to fill out an application first when you get out to this Web site before you can actually enroll. This is where you enter your personal data, you also enter income information that helps the government figure out what kind of subsidy you could apply for — you could be qualified for. So, it’s important to know this number, but this number doesn’t tell us how many people are actually going to enroll? … So, we don’t know if all these people who have applied are going to eventually enroll. That’s going to be the big number.

And as she further elaborated on MSNBC on Monday morning, the idea that the administration knows how many visitors and applications they have had, but somehow doesn’t have the numbers of the actual enrollments in their possession, is a little more than a lame smokescreen:

This is a question that comes up literally every single day at the White House. In the daily briefing, it comes up in other conversations that I have with administration officials every day. And every day they tell us, we don’t have that number yet. We’re going to provide the first enrollee number in mid-November. And, really what they’re trying to do at this point is, they’re being selectively transparent. They’re telling us numbers that make the system look good. They say that 19 million people have looked at HealthCare.gov since the site opened up to the public. They say that about a half million people will have actually gotten through the application process, that’s about as detailed as we’ve gotten at this point. But, you know, the enrollment figures, they say, ‘Oh, reporters, you’re just obsessed with this enrollment figure.’ Well, that’s because the enrollment figure is the only thing that tells us whether it’s actually going to work.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

You would think that the major networks that supported this thing would have an election-night style map showing enrollments.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 12:07 PM

The Administration knows very well the truth – and it’s uglier than many understand.

In their usual contempt towards the American people, they are just spinning out crap with the hope that the majority of those listening neither know or care that they are being fed a crap burger.

The issue with the technical issues has very very little to do with volume. On top of that, the volume really isn’t that high.

This is a clusterfark, and the software written reflects just how much of a clusterfark this program is…..

Athos on October 21, 2013 at 12:08 PM

“Application” means only that they have made contact and have successfully rendered all their personal information . . . they still don’t have healthcare nor does it indicate that their application has even been approved. All of this must be flowing through Obama’s “Department of Obfuscation and Vague Clarity”.

rplat on October 21, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Well, that’s because the enrollment figure is the only thing that tells us whether it’s actually going to work.

You can easily tell how the enrolling is going. The Spite House has no intention of ever releasing those numbers ergo the numbers are abysmal. If there were lots of people signing up it would be breaking news every 15 minutes on all the obama-controlled state media.

HotAirian on October 21, 2013 at 12:09 PM

All the numbers are bullsh*t till we see how many enrollees are actually paying.

Deafdog on October 21, 2013 at 12:10 PM

You can easily tell how the enrolling is going. The Spite House has no intention of ever releasing those numbers ergo the numbers are abysmal. If there were lots of people signing up it would be breaking news every 15 minutes on all the obama-controlled state media.

HotAirian on October 21, 2013 at 12:09 PM

Yes. If it wasn’t a total embarrassment of failure that even MSNBC couldn’t spin as “a good start”, then we would know the numbers.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 12:12 PM

I’d bet that they’ve even bent what an application is as only someone who managed to set up an account and started an application.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 12:13 PM

‘Applicant’ = person that self-reported an IRS fine

(Wake up GOP, this is the silver bullet)

faraway on October 21, 2013 at 12:13 PM

To get a “quote” for a plan you have to completely apply as if you were buying. Then ,and only then, do you see your “rate.” I’m sure the sticker shock for many will mean they will not enroll…

sandee on October 21, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Maybe it’s worse than we think…

Maybe 500,000 people applied and DECIDED NOT TO BUY (vs couldn’t finish the process)

faraway on October 21, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Pretty soon HHS will declare that anyone who typed the letter “H” on their keyboard during any 72 hour period meant they were accessing Healthcare.gov and will be counted as successful registrants.

Data will be confirmed by NSA intercepts.

Bishop on October 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Without enrollment figures, it’s unclear whether the program is on track to reach the 7 million people projecting by the Congressional Budget Office to gain coverage during the six-month sign-up period. …

7 Million?!? What happened to 40 million uninsured?

txhsmom on October 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM

All the numbers are bullsh*t till we see how many enrollees are actually paying.

Deafdog on October 21, 2013 at 12:10 PM

One of the hidden gotcha’s that are surprising many are the very high deductible’s that are part of most of the plans. These need to get paid by the insured – and there are no subsidies from the government to offset them.

I figure by the end of the year, we’re going to start seeing some stories from the mainstream media that just highlight the lies of the Administration, starting with ‘you can keep your plan’ and ‘you can keep your doctor’ and running all the way through. They will have to do this to discredit the implementation – otherwise they risk the perception gaining hold with the people that the government can’t really run programs like this…which will kill the big government agenda.

Athos on October 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Obama could not find one person that signed up – or they would have been with him today.

None of the 13 people behind him signed up.

faraway on October 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Half a million liberal reporters trying to save the Obama bacon. sounds right.

pat on October 21, 2013 at 12:17 PM

7 Million?!? What happened to 40 million uninsured?

txhsmom on October 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Despite the promises, the ACA was never intended to cover all of the uninsured. The CBO figures between 20 and 25 million will remain uninsured after full implementation – so we’re spending a couple of trillion to ‘insure’ only about 1/3rd of the total uninsured.

The other joke is that many of those who remain uninsured will do so because they can’t afford the cost of the healthcare policies under ACA….so they instead will be forced to pay a ‘tax’ to ‘compensate’ for the fact that they can’t afford insurance coverage. And that tax isn’t going to remain just $95 as ‘advertised’….

Athos on October 21, 2013 at 12:19 PM

…really what they’re trying to do at this point is, they’re being selectively transparent.”

This means they’re lying. Call it what it is. I’m tired of a media that colludes with their like-minded, anti-American partisans.

Wino on October 21, 2013 at 12:19 PM

But actually, he thought as he re-adjusted the Ministry of Plenty’s figures, it was not even forgery. It was merely the substitution of one piece of nonsense for another. Most of the material that you were dealing with had no connexion with anything in the real world, not even the kind of connexion that is contained in a direct lie. Statistics were just as much a fantasy in their original version as in their rectified version. A great deal of the time you were expected to make them up out of your head. For example, the Ministry of Plenty’s forecast had estimated the output of boots for the quarter at one-hundred-and-forty-five million pairs. The actual output was given as sixty-two millions. Winston, however, in rewriting the forecast, marked the figure down to fifty-seven millions, so as to allow for the usual claim that the quota had been overfulfilled. In any case, sixty-two millions was no nearer the truth than fifty-seven millions, or than one-hundred-and-forty-five millions. Very likely no boots had been produced at all. Likelier still, nobody knew how many had been produced, much less cared. All one knew was that every quarter astronomical numbers of boots were produced on paper, while perhaps half the population of Oceania went barefoot. And so it was with every class of recorded fact, great or small. Everything faded away into a shadow-world in which, finally, even the date of the year had become uncertain.

George Orwell, “2013″, er, “1984″

/uncanny

mankai on October 21, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Pretty soon HHS will declare that anyone who typed the letter “H” on their keyboard during any 72 hour period meant they were accessing Healthcare.gov and will be counted as successful registrants.

Data will be confirmed by NSA intercepts.

Bishop on October 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM

You realize they’ve done that before. Think back about the “Jobs Created or Saved” BS they threw at us when the media cared about unemployment.

dirtseller on October 21, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Enroll Maven tracks the numbers from all 50 states and DC, with citations:

19,064 as of this morning.

Chuck Schick on October 21, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Dear Ms. Doe:

We sincerely apologize for the technical difficulties that may have prevented you from purchasing health insurance on Healthcare.gov. Secretary Sebelius is redoubling her efforts to provide quality health insurance under the Affordable Care Act in a timely manner.

It has also come to our attention that you have not yet purchased health insurance as mandated under the Affordable Care Act. Please enclose check or money order for one thousand two hundred dollars ($1,200.00) payable to the Internal Revenue Service by February 1, 2014. Any delinquent payments received after that date will accrue 1.5% interest per month of delinquency.

Sincerely yours,
Internal Revenue Service

Steve Z on October 21, 2013 at 12:25 PM

Dear Ms. Doe:

We noticed that you applied for ObamaCare via the website.

Thank you for providing us with information to track you.

Please enclose check or money order for one thousand two hundred dollars ($1,200.00) payable to the Internal Revenue Service by February 1, 2014. Any delinquent payments received after that date will accrue 1.5% interest per month of delinquency.

Sincerely yours,
Internal Revenue Service

faraway on October 21, 2013 at 12:28 PM

How many fake ‘Facebook’ followers did The Punk have?

There ya go.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Gallup: Number of Americans Who Will Refuse To Join Obamacare And Instead Pay Individual Mandate Fine Jumps To 34%, Up 9 Points Since Last Month…

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 12:27 PM

This legislation, designed with the intended purpose of making sure every American is insured, will end up doubling the number of uninsured inside of one year.

NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 12:31 PM

Enroll Maven tracks the numbers from all 50 states and DC, with citations:

19,064 as of this morning.

Chuck Schick on October 21, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Gallup: Number of Americans Who Will Refuse To Join Obamacare And Instead Pay Individual Mandate Fine Jumps To 34%, Up 9 Points Since Last Month…

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 12:27 PM

I hope everyone realizes that we will see massive tax increases over the next few years no matter who is in power.

neuquenguy on October 21, 2013 at 12:33 PM

A car dealership advertises unbeatable prices and free hotdogs over the 4th of July weekend. Then they advertise that thousands came in for the great prices.

What they don’t tell you is that they ran out of hotdogs and only five people bought a vehicle.

Obamacare states they have great prices and lots of free stuff. There are a lot of people looking but not many buying it.

Doester on October 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM

This legislation, designed with the intended purpose of making sure every American is insured, will end up doubling the number of uninsured inside of one year.

NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 12:31 PM

Yep. What Obamacare proponents never address is the segment of the population that is being priced out of the insurance market. These are the people that do not get insurance through their employers, but make too much money to qualify for subsidies.

The proponents say that these people can afford to pay more, but in many cases, that is simply untrue.

There are many individuals and families that earn $100,000, who still don’t have a lot of disposable income. They have mortgages, car notes, credit card bills, etc. If their insurance costs increase by thousands of dollars a year, they will not necessarily have that money to pay for it.

If they can’t afford it and are unable to get subsidies, they will drop their insurance.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM

I hope everyone realizes that we will see massive tax increases over the next few years no matter who is in power.

neuquenguy on October 21, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Yeah right, “free” doesn’t need tax increases. Keep spreading the lies, homophobe.

Bishop on October 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Gallup: Number of Americans Who Will Refuse To Join Obamacare And Instead Pay Individual Mandate Fine Jumps To 34%, Up 9 Points Since Last Month…
Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Well, great.

But I want to know how many are not going to comply at all: Not buy their d@mn ‘insurance’ and not pay their d@mn fine?

I figure that if even 2 -3% of us have the guts to resist completely, even the 16,000 new enforcement agents won’t be able to track us all down, much less audit and punish us.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 12:38 PM

At this point I am equally as furious with Obama and his press. Real people ate being hurt by this god awful mess. Ad Obama has shown he will sit by and allow, even add to the suffering to get his way. The press knows and doesn’t care because Obama must be propped up damn the consequences because the alternative to them is unspeakable. There are whole levels of hell being prepared for Obama and his minions. I see now how the Caesars ruled Rome for so long. This is the modern day equivalent of bread and circuses.

neyney on October 21, 2013 at 12:39 PM

This morning, Fox News had a report that says one of the first fixes will be that you can type in your income “anonymously” and find out if you get a subsidy, no confirmation if it is working yet. If you don’t get a subsidy, you don’t need to use the website at healthcare.gov.

Many of the insurance companies that “dropped out” of the exchanges have individual market policies for you to purchase, just go there. You don’t need to give your personal information to Acorn Navigators to look at, and there is more choice away from the rigidity of the Bronze platinum gold silver Sebelius plans. When the government is giving you a subsidy you can only have those plans. You can still do whatever your state has for individual purchase, which will be ACA compliant, yes, and more expensive than before, but you might like your experience and the product more. Mrs. Sebelius seems to have designed 1980′s insurance plans for the people getting a subsidy.

If you did not get anything when you put your info into FAFSA, you don’t need Healthcare.gov exchanges. You can also try the Kaiser family foundation, Subsidy calculator or one like it you can find online, to determine that you don’t get a subsidy. Healthcare.gov: Don’t go there.

Fleuries on October 21, 2013 at 12:39 PM

And that tax isn’t going to remain just $95 as ‘advertised’….

Athos on October 21, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Remember, the “tax” (penalty) for not having Obamacare is $95 a year, OR 1% of your yearly income, whichever is greater. So if you have $75,000 in income, the “tax” (penalty) is not $95 but $750; if you have $150,000 in income, the “tax” (penalty) is not $95 but $1,500, etc.

AZCoyote on October 21, 2013 at 12:50 PM

And you can’t trust the Obama fan reporters interviewing the Obama fan web site users!!!!!

Dear Ms. Cassata,

I read your recent article:

http://seattletimes.com/html/politics/2022092104_apxobamacareitsnotover.html?syndication=rss

and I am very curious if you and your colleagues ever follow up on statements from your (single) customer interviewee.

Michael Weaver’s statement is totally illogical and hardly “nuanced”.

The only things he has accomplished are opening an account and APPLYING for a subsidy. He has yet to even select a policy because he can’t price shop.

He seemed to enjoy his frustrating experience of: after a week and a half of trying screen after screen, he still hasn’t even selected an insurance plan, can’t even enter his current medications to see if they are covered, has no idea whether or not he will get a subsidy (and therefore can’t compare prices), but likes this process much better than filling out “page after page”.

I find it remarkable that you call his comments “nuanced” instead of delusional. His experience is an unmitigated disaster so far. The word “trainwreck” seems mild. And yet he is a huge fan of ObamaCare. Incredible.

Best,

http://seattletimes.com/html/politics/2022092104_apxobamacareitsnotover.html?

“This is the law of the land at this point,” said Michael Weaver, a self-employed photographer from rural southern Illinois who’s been uninsured for about a year. “We need to stop the arguing and move forward to make it work.”It took him about a week and half, but Weaver kept going back to the healthcare.gov website until he was able to open an account and apply for atax credit that will reduce his premiums. He’s not completely finished because he hasn’t selected an insurance plan, but he’s been able to browse options.It beats providing page after page of personal health information to insurance companies, Weaver said….Although Weaver seems to have gotten past the major website obstacles, he’s still finding shortcomings. There’s no place to type in his medications and find out what plans cover them. “I wish there was more detail, so you could really figure it out,” he said.Such a nuanced critique appears to be lost on congressional Republicans.

fred5678 on October 21, 2013 at 12:51 PM

I figure that if even 2 -3% of us have the guts to resist completely, even the 16,000 new enforcement agents won’t be able to track us all down, much less audit and punish us.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 12:38 PM

It’s easy to avoid the fine because the law prohibits prosecution, levies, or liens. The IRS is going to withhold tax refunds as a result. Just make sure you don’t have a refund coming back on your tax return.

We need to also remember there is no penalty until we file our 2014 taxes. That means when you file in 2015. Far more than 2 or 3% will be delinquent in their mandated insurance coverage come 1/1/2015. And we have all of 2014 to educate people on how to avoid paying the fine.

NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 12:51 PM

I figure that if even 2 -3% of us have the guts to resist completely, even the 16,000 new enforcement agents won’t be able to track us all down, much less audit and punish us.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 12:38 PM

Nova and I are with you. It can only go up.

Schadenfreude on October 21, 2013 at 12:57 PM

It’s easy to avoid the fine because the law prohibits prosecution, levies, or liens…..
NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 12:51 PM

You don’t think that loophole is going to last beyond 2014 … Maybe 2015 do you?

Soon they will just seize your bank accounts, property, garnishee your salary etc.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 12:58 PM

we have all of 2014 to educate people on how to avoid paying the fine.

NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Ask for a post-ponement and you have until Oct. 15, 2015 to file :)

Or, quit producing and send them this.

Schadenfreude on October 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM

As a measure of how totally disastrous ObamaCare is:

# of enrollees – tens of thousands

# of trolls on ObamaCare stories – ZERO.

fred5678 on October 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Soon they will just seize your bank accounts, property, garnishee your salary etc.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Nancy Pelosi and obama have had their eyes on your 401k/IRAs for a long time.

Schadenfreude on October 21, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Soon they will just seize your bank accounts, property, garnishee your salary etc.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 12:58 PM

They’d need a maj. in the congress…or the thug will do it by exec. order.

If the stupid people like this they deserve him, in full.

Schadenfreude on October 21, 2013 at 1:02 PM

it is a paltry $95 next year,
but in 2016 it starts going up.:

Less than $9,500 income = $0
$9,500 – $37,000 income = $695
$50,000 income = $1,000
$75,000 income = $1,600
$100,000 income = $2,250
$125,000 income = $2,900
$150,000 income = $3,500
$175,000 income = $4,100
$200,000 income = $4,700
Over $200,000 = The cost of a “bronze” health-insurance plan

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Ask for a post-ponement and you have until Oct. 15, 2015 to file :)

Or, quit producing and send them this.

Schadenfreude on October 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Or get a shutoff notice form your utility company to avoid the penalty entirely.

https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/

NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Remember, the “tax” (penalty) for not having Obamacare is $95 a year, OR 1% of your yearly income, whichever is greater.

AZCoyote on October 21, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Oh, I had actually thought it was 2%…well, guess that’s, better?

nextgen_repub on October 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Most likely anyone making $150k will still buy insurance. There is a point at which even these insanely inflated premiums and deductibles are “affordable”, but less than 10% of households are making $150k or more. Everyone else is going to get a royal shaft up the a$$ with this legislation. His Royal Highness has now made insurance something only the rich can afford, and a few lucky serfs can get free moldy scraps from His Royal Highness’s treasury.

NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 1:14 PM

‘Oh, reporters, you’re just obsessed with this enrollment figure.’ Well, that’s because the enrollment figure is the only thing that tells us whether it’s actually going to work.

Common sense says that if the actual enrollment numbers were anywhere close to the projections, we’d have heard all about it by now. The numbers are bad, really bad.

Say hello to the death spiral.

Archer on October 21, 2013 at 1:14 PM

Or get a shutoff notice form your utility company to avoid the penalty entirely.
https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/
NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM

I have figured out that because my husband smokes (I quite 5 months ago) that the smoking penalty in FL is 20% of premium added on not covered by the subsidy. One of the exemptions is if the premium is more than 8% of your income you are exempt. With the smoking penalty, the bronze plan is more than 10% of our income. Only problem is the software to process your exemption is not yet available, so who knows When you’ll get the exemption.

BeachBum on October 21, 2013 at 1:20 PM

I’ve been pessimistic about this program from the day it was passed. Now I’m just depressed. I can’t believe that he will admit anything is wrong, regardless of the signs that this has become a major disaster.

I think he will continue to say it’s working fine in the face of mounting evidence that it’s not.

I think his ego is so enormous that he can’t admit that anything he’s ever done is flawed.

I also suspect that he will continue to sing its praise while his administration tries everything BUT shutting it down in order to fix it.

I hope I’m wrong.

E9RET on October 21, 2013 at 1:21 PM

I’d bet that they’ve even bent what an application is as only someone who managed to set up an account and started an application.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 12:13 PM

I think it’s not even that. I think what’s being tallied here are attempts to create accounts on the website. There was an article earlier in the weekend where it was mentioned that the 476,000 was “applications started.” The definition of the number keeps changing and we don’t know exactly how they’re defining “applications.”

The bottom line is I find it extremely unlikely that half a million people actually started applying but did not enroll, not when you’re hearing numbers like “five people enrolled in Iowa.”

So I think it must be attempts to create website accounts by curious onlookers and the MSM. I think it would hugely ironic if the bulk of the visits/attempts were made by curious Republican partisans looking to see the process in action.

Doomberg on October 21, 2013 at 1:22 PM

You would think that the major networks that supported this thing would have an election-night style map showing enrollments.

oldroy on October 21, 2013 at 12:07 PM

Let’s set the over/under for actual enrollees at the number of Electoral Votes in each state.

weaselyone on October 21, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Has Will’s gig at ABC come to an end?

rickv404 on October 21, 2013 at 1:27 PM

Bottom line: unless at least 3 million young healthy people are willing to fork over $1500 or more a year for “health insurance” with a nearly $7000 deductible for anything except prescriptions and certain diagnostic testing, the system cannot work. PERIOD. They even had to steal borrow reallocate half a trillion dollars from Medicare to make it appear to work if the kids sign up. Without them, it flops like a fish on deck.

There is no successful business that requires the potential customer to supply detailed personal information before getting any idea of the prices they will be charged. It is true that in insurance of any kind you are likely to be charged more if the underwriting process determines you have higher risk factors for loss, but they happily supply you with quotes on plans for people without those risks.

Today’s young people don’t remember 14kbps dial-up internet or clunky websites. They are used to instant gratification on the web. It’s going to take more than speeding up the website to draw them into what amounts to a large extra donation to the government.

Adjoran on October 21, 2013 at 1:31 PM

Also worth noting:

Of the 476,000 applications that have been started

I’m sure that in many cases, people STARTED applications multiple times. And in other cases, people STARTED applications that they didn’t (or weren’t able to) complete.

hawksruleva on October 21, 2013 at 1:34 PM

Bottom line: unless at least 3 million young healthy people are willing to fork over $1500 or more a year for “health insurance” with a nearly $7000 deductible for anything except prescriptions and certain diagnostic testing, the system cannot work. PERIOD. They even had to steal borrow reallocate half a trillion dollars from Medicare to make it appear to work if the kids sign up. Without them, it flops like a fish on deck.

Adjoran on October 21, 2013 at 1:31 PM

And after it flops, the Democrats say it proves the need to have a single-payer system, because the commercial insurance industry couldn’t figure out how to make this succeed.

hawksruleva on October 21, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Without enrollment figures, it’s unclear whether the program is on track to reach the 7 million people projecting by the Congressional Budget Office to gain coverage during the six-month sign-up period. …

If they do not get this number, every single person who has already enrolled and been given a price (or gotten free Medicare) will see their premiums increase dramatically. The 7 million number incorporates the healthy people who do not currently carry any form of health insurance. Without those 7 million people buying insurance, the system will collapse in on itself sort of how like a black hole is formed. The system was not designed to operate on 7 million people paying a $95 dollar fine.

Johnnyreb on October 21, 2013 at 1:36 PM

I think it’s not even that. I think what’s being tallied here are attempts to create accounts on the website. There was an article earlier in the weekend where it was mentioned that the 476,000 was “applications started.” The definition of the number keeps changing and we don’t know exactly how they’re defining “applications.”

Doomberg on October 21, 2013 at 1:22 PM

I wonder how many of the fake identities that I tried to register are included in that number.

RINO in Name Only on October 21, 2013 at 1:57 PM

Hi boys and girls! Can you say “train wreck”?

GarandFan on October 21, 2013 at 2:02 PM

I wonder how many of the fake identities that I tried to register are included in that number.

RINO in Name Only on October 21, 2013 at 1:57 PM

I will freely admit that I played around with the registration systems a bit to see how everything worked on the first two days it rolled out. I would not at all be surprised if that counts as part of the number.

Doomberg on October 21, 2013 at 2:20 PM

7 Million?!? What happened to 40 million uninsured?

txhsmom on October 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM

And, please remember that some of those people that are signing up are people that already had insurance but lost it due to Obamacare.

The people that had catastrophic coverage or other low cost plans that are no longer legal.

So, that won’t even be 7 million people that previously had no insurance. It will be some people that previously had no insurance and some people that had it but lost it and now have to pay even more for coverage they like less than the coverage they had before.

This program gets 5 stars out of 5!

JadeNYU on October 21, 2013 at 3:01 PM

Officials said about 19 million people had visited HealthCare.gov as of Friday night.

Are those each UNIQUE visits or all visits?

There is a difference. With people getting logged-out and having to sign back in, that number may be extremely misleading.

We all know that this adminstration wouldn’t try and bend the truth now would they…/

Patriot Vet on October 21, 2013 at 3:08 PM

The administration is bragging about the great interest in the Healthcare.gov web site as seen by the 19 million visitors.

But people are legally required to get health insurance now. It doesn’t take a great deal of effort to get people “interested” in what they are legally required to do. A hundred million people file tax returns every April. Does that mean that there is great “interest” in filing tax returns?

J.S.K. on October 21, 2013 at 3:09 PM

Only democrats could romanticize purchasing health insurance.

Murphy9 on October 21, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Are those each UNIQUE visits or all visits?….
Patriot Vet on October 21, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Back when I was doing a lot of web stuff, I saw people using total page hits, including reloads as unique visitors.

And unless 0bama’s website is using an outside statistics service, and make the data publicly accessible, they could just be making any number up.

And even then, they could just use OFA / Acorn types through random proxies to run up their ‘unique visits’.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Yep. What Obamacare proponents never address is the segment of the population that is being priced out of the insurance market. These are the people that do not get insurance through their employers, but make too much money to qualify for subsidies.

The proponents say that these people can afford to pay more, but in many cases, that is simply untrue.

There are many individuals and families that earn $100,000, who still don’t have a lot of disposable income. They have mortgages, car notes, credit card bills, etc. If their insurance costs increase by thousands of dollars a year, they will not necessarily have that money to pay for it.

If they can’t afford it and are unable to get subsidies, they will drop their insurance.

Resist We Much on October 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM

I think someone linked to this on another thread. It is an article that points out exactly what you say. Also, there is an added penalty for not insuring your kids, IF you can put them down as dependents…even if they aren’t.

IRS: Parents Must Pay Federal Fine for Uninsured Kids

Broadly, Obamacare says that the penalty for not having insurance is the lesser of the cheapest government-approved health insurance plan premium or the alternative, calculated penalty. The IRS regulations lay out how families can calculate this alternative penalty amount.

Uninsured adult family members use the full per-person cost of $695 per person when calculating their penalty, while uninsured children are penalized half of the adult cost – $347.50 per child. The amount of penalty parents may face will change every year after 2016, the IRS said, and parents will face a phased-in penalty between 2014 and 2016.

For 2014, parents could face a penalty of either $47.50 per child – under 18 – up to $285 total.

For 2015, the per-child penalty is $162.50 per child up to $975 total.

For 2016, the per-child penalty is $347.50 per child up to $2,085 total.

The per-person penalty is capped at $2,085 for 2016, but that cap will rise with inflation every year thereafter.

While the per-person penalty is capped each year, families can still owe more if their income is high enough because the law states that families must pay the greater of either the per-person penalty of 2.5 percent of their taxable income.

In the regulations, the IRS gives an example of just such a family. This family has five members – two parents and three children – and has a pre-tax income of $120,000. The IRS assumes that the minimum insurance premium for this family will be $20,000 per year in 2016, meaning that they will either pay the per-person cap of $2,085 or 2.5 percent of their taxable income.

In its example, the IRS assumes the family’s taxable income will be $96,000 — $120,000 minus the filing threshold of $24,000 – meaning that their tax penalty will be $2,400 under Obamacare.

Because the $2,400 tax penalty is greater than the per-person cap of $2,085, the IRS says that this example family must pay $2,400 for not being able to afford the $20,000 yearly minimum insurance premium.

For families, this means that they will be faced with paying either a per-person penalty for not having government-approved health insurance or a penalty based on their income, whichever is higher.

The way the government’s formula works is that smaller-wealthier families will likely pay based on income – because their tax-based penalty will be higher than their per-person penalty, while larger, poorer families will likely pay the per-person penalty, because 2.5 percent of their taxable income will be lower than the $2,085 per-person cap in 2016.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-parents-must-pay-federal-fine-uninsured-kids

Patriot Vet on October 21, 2013 at 3:23 PM

I figure that if even 2 -3% of us have the guts to resist completely, even the 16,000 new enforcement agents won’t be able to track us all down, much less audit and punish us.

LegendHasIt on October 21, 2013 at 12:38 PM

It’s easy to avoid the fine because the law prohibits prosecution, levies, or liens. The IRS is going to withhold tax refunds as a result. Just make sure you don’t have a refund coming back on your tax return.

We need to also remember there is no penalty until we file our 2014 taxes. That means when you file in 2015. Far more than 2 or 3% will be delinquent in their mandated insurance coverage come 1/1/2015. And we have all of 2014 to educate people on how to avoid paying the fine.

NotCoach on October 21, 2013 at 12:51 PM

I believe the IRS will virtually ignore that prohibition by finding loopholes around it. They can intimidate employers into increasing withholding.

They can bundle the fine with your taxes due, and if you have not withheld enough to cover both, fine you for not withholding enough.

It’s the IRS, along with Field Marshal Sebelius they can make up the rules as they go along.

slickwillie2001 on October 21, 2013 at 4:53 PM

How many are unique IP addresses?

{^_^}

herself on October 22, 2013 at 3:58 AM