Rubio: We’ll win on ObamaCare in the long run, because it’s unsustainable

posted at 12:41 pm on October 17, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

True, but this also prompts the question of why the GOP decided to shut down the government in a futile attempt to dislodge Democrats in the Senate and Barack Obama from their dream legislation.  As Marco Rubio says, it’s going to collapse of its own weight, and probably a lot sooner than anyone expected.  Why not force Democrats to vote down a delay — we already had 39 repeals on the record that Democrats ignored — and set the markers for the 2014 election?

It’s water under the bridge now, and Rubio wants to cheer up the troops:

We have missed a golden opportunity to do something about it. But we haven’t given up the fight. The one thing I want people to understand is: They should not feel depressed about this or discouraged about the long term of it. We are going to prevail on this issue. It is just a matter of time. We will prevail because ObamaCare is going to be a disaster. And it won’t be long before many people in this town will be scrambling to try to fix it.

How so? Well, Gabriel Malor points out that the exchange itself is a disaster that will keep lots of people from complying with the law, and will badly miss the White House’s own expectations:

In the memo, officials estimated that 494,620 people would sign up for health insurance under the program by Oct. 31. And that was portrayed as a slow start.

“We expect enrollment in the initial months to be low,” said the memo titled “Projected Monthly Enrollment Targets for Health Insurance Marketplaces in 2014.”

A big jump was expected after Thanksgiving, since Dec. 15 is the last day people can sign up so their coverage will take effect Jan. 1. Starting in the new year, the health care law requires virtually all Americans to have insurance or face fines. At the same time, insurance companies will be forbidden from turning away people in poor health.

That’s just the mechanism, which is bad enough.  Worse yet for Democrats — and as we’ve discussed for years at Hot Air — the voters who will get skewered the worst are those in the big progressive demographic of twenty-somethings.  Heritage unveiled a study yesterday that shows, unsurprisingly, that the young workers will carry twice the burden while getting nearly nothing from the benefits:

The Obama Administration is desperate for younger people to enroll to prevent an adverse selection death spiral. As pointed out by Sam Cappellanti at the American Action Forum, “The enrollment of these low cost young adults…is essential as they are required to subsidize the costs of insuring the elderly and chronically ill.”[6] However, young adults face a penalty for not enrolling that is projected to be far less than the insurance coverage they could receive.

Our findings confirm that younger populations see larger percentage increases in premiums. A state that exhibits this clearly is Vermont, where the increase for 27-year-olds is 144 percent and the increase for 50-year-olds is still 60 percent, but far less. All states exhibit this relationship.

Many individuals will experience sticker shock when shopping on the exchanges. It is clear that many policies and cross-subsidization within Obamacare will lead to upward shifts in premiums. These policies include the health insurance tax, essential health benefit and actuarial value regulations, less allowed age variability in premiums, community rating, and guaranteed issue.[7] However, real uncertainty, amidst a rocky start, surrounds what enrollment will look like in the exchanges.

Obamacare will leave many people paying more for their health insurance. The healthcare.gov website is learning to crawl, with additional data trickling in. However, based on information already released by HHS, states, and insurance plans, the claims of savings on premiums for the average participant is a fantasy.

Kevin Glass notes that premiums for this demographic more than double in eleven states.  It’s not much better for 50-year-olds, either.  Only in five states do premiums decline, largely because the ACA replaces worse regulation in those states. The same is true for families of four, although the increases are not as sharp, and the decreases in the five states are all less than 7%.

This kind of sticker shock will be epic, and it won’t just occur at the point of sale.  That’s why my column for The Fiscal Times today on the lessons of the shutdown ends on an optimistic note, too:

4 – Cheer up. Despite the undeniable flop of this strategy and the embarrassment of staging a two-week shutdown with nothing to show for it, it’s not the end of the world for Republicans. By avoiding the debt limit and potentially crossing the Rubicon of a default (and there is considerable doubt as to whether that would actually be the case), the damage to the GOP will be minimal.  The 1996 shutdown did less damage to Republicans than conventional wisdom holds, and in this case the next election won’t have an incumbent President on the top of the ticket.

Instead, the focus can now shift to the disastrous impact of the ACA itself, which voters left in place with their choices in 2012. It’s not just the federal exchange, which will eventually get fixed.  Premiums have skyrocketed . Americans will now have to spend thousands of dollars more on health care whether they receive subsidies on the exchanges or not.  The sticker shock on the premium prices will crescendo over the next few weeks, and the out-of-pocket expense growth will continue all year until the midterm elections.

By that time, it won’t matter whether we had a partial government shutdown for a couple of weeks, or who won or lost this skirmish. What will matter is that the electorate will finally realize that the so-called Affordable Care Act turned out to be anything but affordable, and that nothing will change as long as Democrats remain in charge.  That will give Republicans a chance to incrementally improve their position and prepare for the possibility of a repeal in 2017 – if the coalition on the Right can keep from savaging itself over strategies and tactics in between.

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.


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I don’t think the shutdown was so bad. Some WWII vets were made aware that a lot of people in this country still respect and support them. It would seem some of them even had the enjoyable experience of moving barrycades (my dad passed away four years ago, but I’m sure he would have enjoyed it). Some federal workers got a paid vacation. Obama was shown as someone who prefers illegals to veterans. And now when Obamacare continues to shower pain on Americans the republicans can say this is what we were fighting against.
And the obvious, most voters weren’t affected and probably were clueless about what was going on.

Rose on October 17, 2013 at 1:55 PM

That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

Does that mean you’re going to do that, too, Ed, or is that just a maxim people who disagree with you have to abide.

Dusty on October 17, 2013 at 2:01 PM

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:41 PM

There’s a lot of truth in what you say. I think for the Tea Party folks, it’s awfully convenient to blame the establishment for everything. And the same is true of the establishment when it comes to the Tea Party. The reality is neither one is completely right and neither one is completely wrong. I think both the establishment and the TP have hurt the Republicans by their demonization of the other. The Dems have just as much infighting, but they, for the most part, keep it behind closed doors. Our side, unfortunately, doesn’t do the same. When a TP candidate beats someone in the establishment in a primary, there’s anger. The same is true if someone in the establishment defeats a TP candidate. We need to get our house in order before we can ever expect to kick Dems’ butts. Rubio and Cruz are perfect examples. Rubio supported immigration reform. Now, we see people call him a traitor, a RINO, and all sorts of nasty names. Cruz fought the good fight on Obamacare and we see people from the establishment sniping him at every chance they can get. This is not beneficial in any way. I hope both side of our side realize this sooner than later.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 2:02 PM

No we won’t.

Because of the spineless capitulators on the right, and their enablers like Ed here, this cancer will send shoots into every organ of America.

Our only hope now is Mark Levin’s convention of the States, which again Hot Air is refusing to report.

conservativeBC on October 17, 2013 at 2:03 PM

I am so sick and tired of conservatives to allowing the left to set false narratives and don’t push back against their premise.
The GOP did NOT shut down the government!!!! They attempted to bring regular order back to the congress and Obama and the democrats shut down the government because they wanted to continue their profligate spending with these giant omnibus bills!!
Just STOP with this “GOP shutdown” nonsense!
jawkneemusic on October 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM

No matter how hard you try to spin it, Kneejerk, it’s still very transparent “spin “.

Hard core conservatives pushed for a bill that specifically defunded the opposition’s key piece of huge legislation. It was a fail so hard that it took Harry Reid all of an hour or so to have the defunding provision removed and then have the bill passed and sent back to the house, all completely inside basic Senate Rules, once Ted Cruz was done filibustering the exact bill he waged a public campaign to push the you’re to pass in the first place.

After having a bill sent back to then by the senate, after having followed basic senate rules, Boehner refused to allow that bill to come ever to a floor vote in the house, no? A bill that would have most likely passed with a similar voting make-up as it just did yesterday.

Rather than bring the bill to the floor for a vote, house republicans decided to move to the next strategy, which was let the government shutdown and just try to send piecemeal legislation back to the senate until the democrats submitted to “negotiations” over what they would give up on their key piece of legislation in order for the stalemate to end and the government to reopen.

And YOU guys wanted even more from it, you’d rather have them have pushed right on through the debt ceiling as we’ll never wavering on the defunding Obamacare and just leaving everything shut down until the democrats agree to your demands.

That’s not “bringing back regular order” to congress. And you’re crazy if you think people can’t see through this very weak attempt a narrative building off of a transparent piece of spin.

Genuine on October 17, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Just to remind everyone who gets gleeful at all the obamacare problems. It is designed to fail. In this way the government steps in as the insurer of last resort, and voila! single payer emerges from the ashes.

paulsur on October 17, 2013 at 1:53 PM

Single payer will never happen while America is still a “free” country. It requires the government to completely take over every single industry that has an impact on healthcare. Which under our Constitution, isn’t going to happen.

I know ObamaCare leading to single payer is the Marxist wet dream. But unless the nation willingly allows the Federal Government to morph into a true Autocratic system, it isn’t happening.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:05 PM

It’s as sustainable as any entitlement. You just need a majority willing to vote for other people to buy their healthcare for them. There is nothing easier than putting that majority together.

Buddahpundit on October 17, 2013 at 2:05 PM

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 12:59 PM

Bush started to try to do something about Social Security but was quickly beat down by Democrat “scare” tactics which caused the seniors and the boomers to go into orbit..Team Bush said to he!! with this and quickly backed off as they became demonized by both sides..:)

Dire Straits on October 17, 2013 at 2:07 PM

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

Who needs to win?
Republicans? RINOS? Conservatives? Tea Party? Moderates?

WTF is this “right” of the spectrum and how do you define it?

It’s this simple political calculus that has gotten everyone screwed. The belief an “R” is really YOUR “R” and MY “R”

The Republican Party needs an enema. Stat.
Marketing, advertisements, ideology, clarity, focus, motivation, brand, identity and LEADERSHIP.

“Dismantle” Obamacare? The current Republican Party couldn’t dismantle an 3 legged stool from Ikea.

Odie1941 on October 17, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Yep. Social Security, Medicare, welfare of all stripes, obamaphones… boy all those unsustainable programs just crushed under their own weight – right?
Oh, they’re still going? You mean we will just borrow or print whatever we need to keep these programs going?!

Think about it.

Free Indeed on October 17, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Single payer will never happen while America is still a “free” country. It requires the government to completely take over every single industry that has an impact on healthcare. Which under our Constitution, isn’t going to happen.

I know ObamaCare leading to single payer is the Marxist wet dream. But unless the nation willingly allows the Federal Government to morph into a true Autocratic system, it isn’t happening.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:05 PM

Someone has been living in denial for the last few years.

ebrown2 on October 17, 2013 at 2:13 PM

No, it won’t collapse; it will be propped up with tax increases that will be called something akin to FICA. See, it won’t really be a tax because Justice Roberts said so.

And on a more-related-than-you-think note, here’s Tingles describing the Tea Party today:

“Why does a group that always loses elections, or tends to do lately, why do they call themselves the American people?” Matthews asked. “Do they still count blacks as three-fifths? Three-fifths of a vote?”

Get very used to hearing that, that is going to be the argument for enrolling all the “Dreamers” -all twenty million and climbing- in Obamacare. Because no once-and-future citizen should be counted as a three-fifths slave, you cracker.

And your new not-a-tax is going to pay for it, you d*** racist.

M240H on October 17, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Someone has been living in denial for the last few years.

ebrown2 on October 17, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Oh yeah.

Free Indeed on October 17, 2013 at 2:14 PM

As a former Republican (now an Independent who will vote for a few Republicans but never a Democrat – more often will simply not vote)I’m curious why anyone would bother to vote for a Republican establishment candidate. You might as well vote Democrat, you’ll get the same result as if you voted Republican. And waiting for Obamacare to collapse because its unsustainable – Christ, Social Security has been unsustainable since it was instituted a few generations ago. A lot of people lived their whole life and died waiting for the USSR to collapse. Oh yeah, wait it out, hell of a strategy. You guys have earned the title the “Stupid Party”.

Over50 on October 17, 2013 at 2:16 PM

True, but this also prompts the question of why the GOP decided to shut down the government in a futile attempt to dislodge Democrats in the Senate and Barack Obama from their dream legislation.

Uh, because shameless self promoters like Ted Cruz, Lee, and Palin along with Heritage Action and the Conservative Senate Fund saw that they can make money by riling up the stupider members of the right wing?

AirForceCane on October 17, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Hard core conservatives pushed for a bill that specifically defunded the opposition’s key piece of huge legislation. It was a fail so hard that it took Harry Reid all of an hour or so to have the defunding provision removed and then have the bill passed and sent back to the house, all completely inside basic Senate Rules, once Ted Cruz was done filibustering the exact bill he waged a public campaign to push the you’re to pass in the first place.

Genuine on October 17, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I guarantee that six months from now, when your ‘key piece of huge legislation’ is an a heap burning on the ground, you’ll be here crying about how those mean nasty Republicans won’t help poor little Obama fix it.

Just remember, when your ‘key piece of huge legislation’ has failed to carry out a single one of it’s creators promises, when more people don’t have health insurance because of the Affordable Care Acts unaffordable prices, when the US has slipped back into recession due to hundreds of billions of dollars in middle class spending power destroyed, when more people are unemployed and underemployed, and people are screaming for the heads of Obama and the Democrats…remember, we tried to help you. And your side stabbed the hand that we extended to try to help you with. So choke on it.

And before you tell me I’m full of it and none of this will happen, let me point out that all of our predictions about Obamacare have come to pass already, while none of yours have.

PetecminMd on October 17, 2013 at 2:17 PM

Bush started to try to do something about Social Security but was quickly beat down by Democrat “scare” tactics which caused the seniors and the boomers to go into orbit..Team Bush said to he!! with this and quickly backed off as they became demonized by both sides..:)

Dire Straits on October 17, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Exactly. And would it be much different if a future Republican government tries not only to tweak, but to dismantle Obamacare, even with all its problems? I think we need to do a lot more than just elect Republicans, this is not going to be easy.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 2:19 PM

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward

Show me any evidence from the last 25 years that GOP control of all 3 branches would reduce government one iota.

Any at all.

Still waiting…

Bat Chain Puller on October 17, 2013 at 2:19 PM

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

+ 100..Agreed..:)

Dire Straits on October 17, 2013 at 2:20 PM

Whatever Rubio. You are a total fraud.

Wigglesworth on October 17, 2013 at 2:21 PM

The GOP will help save ObamaCare…for the children.

d1carter on October 17, 2013 at 2:22 PM

The democrats had a chance to keep the government open by agreeing to two reasonable compromises, a one year extension on the personal mandate and elimination of the medical devise tax. They caused the shutdown because they refused these two items. With all the problems with Obamacare they probably wish they had taken the deal.

Rose on October 17, 2013 at 2:22 PM

So now we know the talking points for the Republicans candidates running in 2014 are. I suppose all they have to say is that they voted to repeal Obamacare (knowing it wasn’t going to go anywhere) and that will get them your vote. I will never forget how they turned on the people in their own party who were actually standing by their promises and principles, and Rubio wasn’t one of them.

lea on October 17, 2013 at 2:24 PM

I am so sick and tired of conservatives to allowing the left to set false narratives and don’t push back against their premise.
The GOP did NOT shut down the government!!!! They attempted to bring regular order back to the congress and Obama and the democrats shut down the government because they wanted to continue their profligate spending with these giant omnibus bills!!
Just STOP with this “GOP shutdown” nonsense!
jawkneemusic on October 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM

No matter how hard you try to spin it, Kneejerk, it’s still very transparent “spin “.

Hard core conservatives pushed for a bill that specifically defunded the opposition’s key piece of huge legislation. It was a fail so hard that it took Harry Reid all of an hour or so to have the defunding provision removed and then have the bill passed and sent back to the house, all completely inside basic Senate Rules, once Ted Cruz was done filibustering the exact bill he waged a public campaign to push the you’re to pass in the first place.

After having a bill sent back to then by the senate, after having followed basic senate rules, Boehner refused to allow that bill to come ever to a floor vote in the house, no? A bill that would have most likely passed with a similar voting make-up as it just did yesterday.

Rather than bring the bill to the floor for a vote, house republicans decided to move to the next strategy, which was let the government shutdown and just try to send piecemeal legislation back to the senate until the democrats submitted to “negotiations” over what they would give up on their key piece of legislation in order for the stalemate to end and the government to reopen.

And YOU guys wanted even more from it, you’d rather have them have pushed right on through the debt ceiling as we’ll never wavering on the defunding Obamacare and just leaving everything shut down until the democrats agree to your demands.

That’s not “bringing back regular order” to congress. And you’re crazy if you think people can’t see through this very weak attempt a narrative building off of a transparent piece of spin.

Genuine on October 17, 2013 at 2:04 PM

No need to go item by item through this. It’s too riddled with assumptions and false premises.

“Regular order” means the House passes a budget, sends it to the Senate, then the Senate passes basically the same bill with their own amendments and changes, then a conference committee meets and reconciles the two bills into one, then the House and Senate pass the budget and send it to the president.

That is “regular order.”

The current situation is that the House sends a budget to the Senate, which then ignores it and waits until the last Continuing Resolution runs out. Then the Senate passes its own Continuing Resolution, and refuses to even allow a vote on any bill from the House until they agree to their demands. And since the Senate is controlled by Democrats who have no intention of ever passing a budget, as the past 6 years amply demonstrates, the House is put in the position of having to give the Senate what they will agree to accept.

This should not be the case, since not only is the House equal to the Senate, but in matters of the budget they actually have the bigger role. That is, only the House can pass a bill to raise taxes.

And what we have now is a situation that uses the threat of default and government shutdown to force the House to give up their power of the purse and pass something that meets the demands of the Senate.

But according to the media, it’s the House that is shutting down the government, even though the House has actually passed a budget and multiple separate spending resolutions, only to watch them be ignored in the Senate.

So it’s really simple. The House is right on the facts, but seems to be unable to get that message across to the public through a hostile media. The result is that the House gets blamed for a shutdown, while the Senate and the President — who are the ones who absolutely refused to negotiate — sit back and blame it all on the Republicans in the House. And lest there be any doubt, the media jumps in on the side of the Democrats and blames it on the House.

There Goes the Neighborhood on October 17, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Hard core conservatives pushed for a bill that specifically defunded the opposition’s key piece of huge legislation. It was a fail so hard that it took Harry Reid all of an hour or so to have the defunding provision removed and then have the bill passed and sent back to the house, all completely inside basic Senate Rules, once Ted Cruz was done filibustering the exact bill he waged a public campaign to push the you’re to pass in the first place.

Genuine on October 17, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I guarantee that six months from now, when your ‘key piece of huge legislation’ is an a heap burning on the ground, you’ll be here crying about how those mean nasty Republicans won’t help poor little Obama fix it.

Just remember, when your ‘key piece of huge legislation’ has failed to carry out a single one of it’s creators promises, when more people don’t have health insurance because of the Affordable Care Acts unaffordable prices, when the US has slipped back into recession due to hundreds of billions of dollars in middle class spending power destroyed, when more people are unemployed and underemployed, and people are screaming for the heads of Obama and the Democrats…remember, we tried to help you. And your side stabbed the hand that we extended to try to help you with. So choke on it.

And before you tell me I’m full of it and none of this will happen, let me point out that all of our predictions about Obamacare have come to pass already, while none of yours have.

PetecminMd on October 17, 2013 at 2:17 PM

The ecstatic fascistic vision of America’s destruction that non-”Genuine” is advocating here will not be subjected to destruction through a bourgeois application of -facts.-

ebrown2 on October 17, 2013 at 2:25 PM

I think we need to do a lot more than just elect Republicans, this is not going to be easy.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 2:19 PM

Our only chance to get rid of Obiecare is to win control of House and Senate and POTUS as evidence of the last few days showed..:)

PS..I agree it will not be easy..:)

Dire Straits on October 17, 2013 at 2:26 PM

Win? I don’t think that word exists in the Republican vocabulary….

sandee on October 17, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Agreed. It also raises Ted Cruz to almost Churchill proportions.

John the Libertarian on October 17, 2013 at 12:55 PM
And it makes the surrender caucus and their “fought the good fight/ live to fight another day by completely caving” actions left John effing Boehner looking like Neville Chamberlain.

Happy Nomad on October 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Happy Nomad I generally like your comments and point of view. But in this instance you are insane and just as bad as the KosKids who call anyone to the right of Woodrow Wilson a Nazi..

If anything, the more correct historical parallel would be to all the European citizens who said in summer 1914 that the Triple Entente and the Triple Alliance would lead to the greatest disaster in history.

While at the exact same time most of the “conservatives” were saying the war would be short, victorious, and would correct all the difficulties of the past decade.

In this case, Lee and Cruz led us right out of the trenches to be slaughtered just like Paaschendaale or Ypres, for absolutely ZERO gain..

AirForceCane on October 17, 2013 at 2:27 PM

My experience of quite a few posters here in Hot-Air is that they live in their own, isolated bubble. When I start seeing the same wishcasting about how all the polls are wrong and that we are really ahead, I have learned to take a step back.

The people here who are throwing tantrums just because they got rolled hard in the political arena are the worst. Politics is a blood sport, figuratively and literally, and those who sit on their armchairs complaining about the situation without ever lifting a finger to rectify other than to pick up their toys and go home are the worst.

It is little wonder the left are winning in spite of themselves. When the going gets tough, the “tough” just sits back and cries about how the universe is against them. Grow up.

eva3071 on October 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM

Rubio: We’ll win on ObamaCare

You see – that’s a problem right there. It is not about “winning” Marco Amnestyio.

It’s about the thousands of small businesses that have already closed due to O-Care demands, the thousands who have lost both their insurance and Doctors that they wanted to keep. And the thousands of businesses that cannot hire or expand because of O-Care demands. It’s about the shutdown of liberty, choice, religion, and privacy. It’s about the expedited decline of our healthcare system and our economy and not least – our culture.

Republicans didn’t “lose” this fight. The People of the United States have lost their heritage because the GOP recognizes neither the imperiled state of the US or the urgency of the hour.

But Mitch McConnell got some funding for KY so whatever. You keep talking about winning. Kind of like the Charlie Sheen version of winning.

LetsBfrank on October 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM

blink on October 17, 2013 at 2:25 PM

I hear you..There were some “classics” on the Obiecare Facebook page..:)

Dire Straits on October 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM

There Goes the Neighborhood on October 17, 2013 at 2:24 PM

For the life of me I don’t understand why the House doesn’t refuse to do anything until the Senate passes a budget. I can understand being caught with their pants down the first year, but 4 years in a row?

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 2:30 PM

jawkneemusic on October 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM

cajunpatriot on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

But it’s a useful narrative for Republicans who like shooting inwards. Heck, if they’re still selling the ‘repeal Obamacare 39 times’ tripe, you’ll never get them to characterize that properly, much less do it conveniently or helpfully.

[StargazerA5 on October 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM]

Agreed. But trying to explain it to bloggers too busy aiming their guns inwards while asking people to aim outwards.

Dusty on October 17, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Our only chance to get rid of Obiecare is to win control of House and Senate and POTUS as evidence of the last few days showed..:)

PS..I agree it will not be easy..:)

Dire Straits on October 17, 2013 at 2:26 PM

As the last few weeks has proven, even if you win control of the Senate and POTUS, with the current list of progressives and establishment repukes in the Senate, they’ve proven they don’t have the political will to do it.

Tell me, what are you going to do IF something like this were to happen, win the Senate and POTUS, and the progressive Repukes once again stab the voters in the back? Because THAT is much more likely than they would actually follow through and kill it.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:31 PM

In this case, Lee and Cruz led us right out of the trenches to be slaughtered just like Paaschendaale or Ypres, for absolutely ZERO gain..

AirForceCane on October 17, 2013 at 2:27 PM

The worst people to fight with are the Leeroy Jenkins. Sure, dealing with the establishment is just like allying with someone you can be sure will knife you in the back, but at least you know they will.

eva3071 on October 17, 2013 at 2:32 PM

Hard core conservatives pushed for a bill that specifically defunded the opposition’s key piece of huge legislation. It was a fail so hard that it took Harry Reid all of an hour or so to have the defunding provision removed and then have the bill passed and sent back to the house, all completely inside basic Senate Rules, once Ted Cruz was done filibustering the exact bill he waged a public campaign to push the you’re to pass in the first place.

Genuine on October 17, 2013 at 2:04 PM

That’s over now, but ObamaCare is still a disaster.

Chuck Schick on October 17, 2013 at 2:32 PM

when the US has slipped back into recession due to hundreds of billions of dollars in middle class spending power destroyed

PetecminMd on October 17, 2013 at 2:17 PM

I expect that recession will start later this year. I see an epic fail in Christmas sales as people prepare for their increased premium payments starting January 1.

txhsmom on October 17, 2013 at 2:32 PM

Tell me, what are you going to do IF something like this were to happen, win the Senate and POTUS, and the progressive Repukes once again stab the voters in the back? Because THAT is much more likely than they would actually follow through and kill it.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Aren’t “true conservatives” supposed to be fighters? Why won’t they initiate a cold-blooded takeover of the Republican Party? If True Cons lose to the “surrender caucus”, then what makes the True Cons better then the cowards in the establishment?

eva3071 on October 17, 2013 at 2:35 PM

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Welcome to the world of Harry Reid running the Senate..Dingy Harry is allowed to get away with it..No one is holding him accountable..:)

PS..Plus Obie does not care because he nor the Senate are serious about a budget..Only spending..:)

Dire Straits on October 17, 2013 at 2:37 PM

In this case, Lee and Cruz led us right out of the trenches to be slaughtered just like Paaschendaale or Ypres, for absolutely ZERO gain..

AirForceCane on October 17, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Actually, the reason the GOP got zero gain, is because the progressive Repukes caved again, and had no b@lls to stand up to Obama and Reid in the first place.

The fact is, if the GOP had been united through out this whole thing, like the Dims were, we WOULD have gotten something out of it.

They were going to take political heat for ANYTHING they did. And the media was going to crucify them regardless. That is unless they just gave up and went along with Obama and Dims from the start.

In which case, what’s the difference between Obama and the Dims and the GOP…absolutely nothing.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:39 PM

While at the exact same time most of the “conservatives” were saying the war would be short, victorious, and would correct all the difficulties of the past decade.

In this case, Lee and Cruz led us right out of the trenches to be slaughtered just like Paaschendaale or Ypres, for absolutely ZERO gain..

AirForceCane on October 17, 2013 at 2:27 PM

What conservative is saying that? Short? Correct everything? You’re delusional. I seriously mean delusional. And you think this has only been building for a decade? Nonsense. Any sane person can see that the debt, both the 17 trillion and the much bigger unfunded liabilities aren’t going away without some serious repercussions. That’s why conservatives are so POed.

Fenris on October 17, 2013 at 2:39 PM

I’m chuckling to myself right now.

I’m thinking about all the Obama lovers that will soon be saying, “Gee, I didn’t know I was going to be forced to spend this much money on health insurance or pay a penalty. I’m now kinda wishin’ Ted Cruz had won that fight back in October.”

blink on October 17, 2013 at 2:25 PM

Don’t laugh if you remember your Soviet history, especially the term “wreckers.”

ebrown2 on October 17, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Aren’t “true conservatives” supposed to be fighters? Why won’t they initiate a cold-blooded takeover of the Republican Party? If True Cons lose to the “surrender caucus”, then what makes the True Cons better then the cowards in the establishment?

eva3071 on October 17, 2013 at 2:35 PM

Why fight for a dying GOP? Conservatives need to dump the GOP altogether. Conservatives are fighting a losing battle in the GOP because they’re not only fighting the Dims and Obama, but they’re fighting with both hands tied behind their backs, because the establishment in the GOP are setting the rules Conservatives have to fight by.

Defund the GOP. Dump the GOP. Conservatives can much more effectively fight Obama, the Dims and a greatly diminished GOP from OUTSIDE the party than they can playing by the establishment rules INSIDE the party.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:43 PM

I’m chuckling to myself right now.

I’m thinking about all the Obama lovers that will soon be saying, “Gee, I didn’t know I was going to be forced to spend this much money on health insurance or pay a penalty. I’m now kinda wishin’ Ted Cruz had won that fight back in October.”

blink on October 17, 2013 at 2:25 PM

But they won’t.

They’ll be crying about how the Republicans are bad people because they won’t pump more money into the program, or agree to work with the preezy to fix his signature achievement.

And as it gets worse and worse, they’ll get progressively shriller in their complaints, as they see any hope of victories in 2014 and 2016 fall apart.

You know that whole “be careful what you wish for” thing….

PetecminMd on October 17, 2013 at 2:44 PM

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 2:02 PM

I agree with almost everything. But Rubio did not support amnesty. He led it. Amnesty which most of the populace opposes. If Rubio gets into Presidential politics, I hope he is fried for this.

antisocial on October 17, 2013 at 2:47 PM

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

Bad leadership is still bad leadership. If it is a return to the Bush years what did we accomplish. Several mostly old Republicans are going to have to go.

William Eaton on October 17, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:43 PM

That is why the “true conservatives” will lose. When the progressives faced the same problem, they didn’t dump the Democratic party. They just took it over. Are the Progressives better fighters than the true conservatives?

eva3071 on October 17, 2013 at 2:52 PM

While at the exact same time most of the “conservatives” were saying the war would be short, victorious, and would correct all the difficulties of the past decade.

In this case, Lee and Cruz led us right out of the trenches to be slaughtered just like Paaschendaale or Ypres, for absolutely ZERO gain..

AirForceCane on October 17, 2013 at 2:27 PM

What conservative is saying that? Short? Correct everything? You’re delusional. I seriously mean delusional. And you think this has only been building for a decade? Nonsense. Any sane person can see that the debt, both the 17 trillion and the much bigger unfunded liabilities aren’t going away without some serious repercussions. That’s why conservatives are so POed.

Fenris on October 17, 2013 at 2:39 PM

The notion that rational concern for the debt=satanic treason isn’t just supported by the Move On fascists, but by their spiritual brothers and enablers in the GOP de-elite as well.

ebrown2 on October 17, 2013 at 2:56 PM

That is why the “true conservatives” will lose. When the progressives faced the same problem, they didn’t dump the Democratic party. They just took it over. Are the Progressives better fighters than the true conservatives?

eva3071 on October 17, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Fine, take it over. I don’t really care. I’ve already changed my affiliation away from Republican, for the first time in my life. I will no longer contribute to a GOP run by progressives that hate me. If the Conservatives left in the GOP can take it over, great. I’ll be happy to contribute to the Tea Party Conservatives still in the GOP individually. But unless/until the control of the GOP shifts to Conservatives, they won’t get a single dime from me.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 3:03 PM

The key is to make 2014 about Obamacare, and now there is no question regarding who is in favor of it and who is against it. That is one area in which the shutdown helped. It ingrained the GOP’s opposition to Obamacare into the non-interested voters minds.

FreeManOtis on October 17, 2013 at 3:03 PM

While I would’ve liked to have gotten some concessions from the Dems, I think that standing up and saying there’s a problem was good. It’s amazing to see how the press pulled out all the stops just to maintain the status quo. Its like Booker outspending Lonegan by 10 to 1 just to squeak into double digits in a Solid Blue state. Losing hurts, but it shows that we can raise objections and there’s little to no cost.

Iblis on October 17, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Who cares about a few hundred or thousand wasted dollars of capital?

Murphy9 on October 17, 2013 at 3:15 PM

billion^ *

Murphy9 on October 17, 2013 at 3:16 PM

Actually, the reason the GOP got zero gain, is because the progressive Repukes caved again, and had no b@lls to stand up to Obama and Reid in the first place.

many on the far right continue to say this- what are you talking about EXACTLY?!!

How many Senators DOES IT TAKE TO PASS LEGISLATION?

because that is what it would have taken to tear down Obamacare.

how many senators does it take to override a Presidential Veto?

I know there are many disgruntled paleo-cons on here who love to whine and cry- but I would love to see just ONE of you actually explain how “RINOS” caused the loss of votes in the Congress..

you do realize that the entire Cruz wishcasting depended on blocking a budget and causing so much pain that Obama and the Democrats would eventually be forced to vote against their self-interest?

and EVERYONE other than Cruz knew this would actually burn down the GOP and give obama exactly what he wanted.

so please, do share with me HOW EXACTLY it was that RINOS stopped Cruz from getting 51 Senators to vote for changing the law..

AirForceCane on October 17, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Rubio is full of sh*t.

ObamaCare was designed to fail.

It’s going to take the entire health insurance industry out with it.

It’s going to be replaced with Single Payer.

The Surrender Caucus will help lead the way ushering it in.

Electing RINO’s in 2016 isn’t going to fix the problem – because RINO’s will still say … “Well let’s just reform this sh*t a little bit – because the 47% will be upset with us if we throw it away!”

Had Romney won the White House and the GOP taken back the Senate in the last election – they would have simply “changed” O-Care on the fringes just enough so no one would call it “ObamaCare” any longer. But a Socialist health care plan is a socialist health care plan no matter if it’s a Dim or a Republican that advances it.

I can’t believe that Ed actually believes the RINO’s will help us disassemble this sh*t. He should know better by now.

HondaV65 on October 17, 2013 at 3:23 PM

I agree with almost everything. But Rubio did not support amnesty. He led it. Amnesty which most of the populace opposes. If Rubio gets into Presidential politics, I hope he is fried for this.

antisocial on October 17, 2013 at 2:47 PM

That’s fair, but like I said, he shouldn’t be burned at the stake just because he deviated on one issue. Reagan supported amnesty too, ya know?

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Single payer will never happen while America is still a “free” country. It requires the government to completely take over every single industry that has an impact on healthcare. Which under our Constitution, isn’t going to happen.

I know ObamaCare leading to single payer is the Marxist wet dream. But unless the nation willingly allows the Federal Government to morph into a true Autocratic system, it isn’t happening.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:05 PM

So much cute, so much naïve in your comment.

America is no longer a ‘free’ country.

A great many things have already happened ‘under our Constitution’ that aren’t supposed to happen – the folks in charge don’t see this as a hindrance, you see? And they won’t going forward, either.

Midas on October 17, 2013 at 3:30 PM

AirForceCane on October 17, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Even if they would have been able to fight enough to get the exemptions reversed, it would have been a win.

So, given your take, since the Republicans only control the House, and only 44 votes in the Senate, that they should have just rolled over and not even fought?

Because THAT’S what the establishment in the Senate would have done.

I guess by your post you think that just because we don’t control POTUS, the House AND have a 60 vote majority in the Senate, we should just give up and let Obama and the Dims have everything they want? All because Obama and the Dims and their State-Run media calls the Republicans bad names? Because that’s what the establishment GOP would have us do.

Sorry, I won’t be part of a GOP that is exactly the same as the Dimocrats. I won’t be part of a GOP that refuses to fight, in any way POSSIBLE, for me and what I believe in.

ObamaCare may fail on its own, but you know what? Even if it does, it STILL won’t be repealed. It STILL won’t go ANYWHERE. Because the establishment GOP has done NOTHING to try to stop it. NOTHING. What makes you believe they all of sudden will kill it if they ever get the numbers and power to do so, if they refused to take ANY steps to try to kill it to this point?

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 3:35 PM

“…why the GOP decided to shut down the government in a futile attempt to dislodge Democrats in the Senate and Barack Obama from their dream legislation.”

I don’t know if they blundered into it or not, Ed.. but bottom line, Democrats were forced to double-down on their ownership of Obamacare. And they did it in a really ugly way too, hassling senior citizens at the monuments and campers in the parks.

Now, we’re at the “I told you so” phase with Obamacare, and as the pain begins, Republicans are on the record for doing everything they could to stop it. They’ve avoided the “make it hurt” pitfall with a big effort to keep it from happening. Obamacare becomes a kitchen table issue that voters will see up close and personal… with only one party to blame for every bad thing that comes out of it.

Murf76 on October 17, 2013 at 3:36 PM

So much cute, so much naïve in your comment.

America is no longer a ‘free’ country.

A great many things have already happened ‘under our Constitution’ that aren’t supposed to happen – the folks in charge don’t see this as a hindrance, you see? And they won’t going forward, either.

Midas on October 17, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Yep, you’re exactly right, and the GOP hasn’t done a D@MN thing to even slow it down, let alone stop it. Establishment GOP is no different than the Dimocrats. If they don’t shift control of the party to Conservatives, defund it, kill it and move on.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 3:40 PM

Reagan supported amnesty too, ya know?

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 3:28 PM

And came to regret it as the biggest mistake of his Presidency.

Kudos to Rubio for standing with the Obamacare defunders in the Senate and House. But the “one issue” on which he deviated leads directly to the demise of the republic. The cost and permanent ruling party status of the Democrats alone will kill it. On the other hand, with 20 million new subsidized recipients, Obamacare would really become unsustainable. Not that we wouldn’t be taxed to death first, before anyone admitted it.

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 3:43 PM

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 3:43 PM

That may be true that he regretted it, but the point I’m trying to make is that one should not be called a “traitor” just because of one “mistake.” We’ll never find a perfect conservative that can actually win if that’s the case.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 3:54 PM

“We’ll win on Welfare in the long run – because it’s unsustainable.”

“We’ll win on Social Security in the long run – because it’s unsustainable.”

“We’ll win on Medicare in the long run – because it’s unsustainable.”

The problem with that notion – is that the day we “win” is the day we go bankrupt – because the RINO’s have already demonstrated they don’t have the nuts to do anything until that day.

HondaV65 on October 17, 2013 at 3:57 PM

Republicans have got to stop being the Stupid Party because this next phase is going to take a bit of smarts. You know Democrats are going to be pushing the single payer as the answer to all the problems of Obamacare and the media are going to continue to carry their water. If Republicans don’t stay on message – and that means staying on message LOUDLY then they’re just going to be on the outside looking in once again.

They cannot rely on people to come to this conclusion on their own, they cannot rely on Obamacare falling apart automotically favoring them, they cannot expect anybody to act in the best interests of this country and its people… I mean come on, you’ve got low information voters on the one hand and Democrats who have just demonstrated how far they will go during a minor shutdown to inflict pain and political damage to their opponents on the other hand.

A Stupid Party isn’t going to cut it anymore, either Republicans learn to play the game well or they’re out. McCain and his little groupies can have the party split and enjoy their little victory while those who have the countries best interests at heart start getting a chance to actually works towards that future.

Ukiah on October 17, 2013 at 4:04 PM

That may be true that he regretted it, but the point I’m trying to make is that one should not be called a “traitor” just because of one “mistake.” We’ll never find a perfect conservative that can actually win if that’s the case.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 3:54 PM

And my only point is that Rubio made a fundamental, this-changes-everything, utterly-ruinous-to-the-country mistake. Which I’ve never heard him call a mistake.

And I think the reason that some call him a “traitor” is because his “mistake” was particularly egregious, a deliberate 180 from from what he said to get elected– a deliberate betrayal of his electorate and of conservatives– and– if he proves to have been instrumental in the enactment of this mistake into law– of his country.

I’m fine with him pounding on Obamacare for the rest of his term in the Senate. Good man. Who may still have to pay for his mistake.

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 4:09 PM

Sorry about the strike-throughs above. Unintentional mistake (unlike Rubio’s). Should have been a quote.

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 4:10 PM

True that it’s unsustainable, not necessarily true that we’ll win in the long run. Winning doesn’t even seem likely to me, we’ve entered Banana Republic land in so many ways.

Fenris on October 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM

We crossed over into banana republic land and built a Barrycade behind us.

CableDude on October 17, 2013 at 4:14 PM

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 4:09 PM

That’s fine, but I think it’s a pity that we’re lambasting our most articulate advocate because of an issue that irritated the base. Send him letters, try to primary him even, but calling him such vicious names because of a stance he took on an issue is over the top.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 4:20 PM

There Goes the Neighborhood on October 17, 2013 at 2:24 PM

For the life of me I don’t understand why the House doesn’t refuse to do anything until the Senate passes a budget. I can understand being caught with their pants down the first year, but 4 years in a row?

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Every time the Senate called for a “Clean CR,” and rejected smaller funding bills, they should have been met with, “That’s called a budget. Do you need us to send you another one?”

That’s why Reagan could work through the media. He found the phrasing that made each issue clear.

The past couple of decades would suggest that is a rare talent.

There Goes the Neighborhood on October 17, 2013 at 4:23 PM

We have missed a golden opportunity to do something about it. But we haven’t given up the fight. The one thing I want people to understand is: They should not feel depressed about this or discouraged about the long term of it. We are going to prevail on this issue. It is just a matter of time. We will prevail because ObamaCare is going to be a disaster. And it won’t be long before many people in this town will be scrambling to try to fix it.

Rubio is right. What Republicans gained here is that (1) the issue Obamacare has been brought to the forefront, with Republicans coming out clearly for delaying its implementation, and (2) the continuing resolution to fund the government is only for three months, which means Congress will have this debate again in January.

Since the fiscal year started on October 1, the government needed to be funded, and the initial debate had to start before then, before the full impact of Obamacare was felt by the general public. So, Democrats got a chance to whine about “evil” Republicans trying to deny people health insurance. But Republicans didn’t cave to a full-year CR, but only a three-month CR.

By January, many people will receive notices of huge increases in premiums and deductibles for health insurance, and will be begging somebody in government to prevent it, and Republicans can then claim that delaying the individual mandate of Obamacare will actually save people thousands of dollars, and voters will believe it, and turn against Democrats for having forced such a disaster down their throats.

Republicans can then argue for delaying the individual mandate, and Democrats might just go along with it (instead of owning the train wreck), with the promise of repealing it entirely if they win the Senate in 2014.

It’s all a matter of timing. Republicans did what they could in October 2013-now let’s wait until January and let the house of cards crash down on the Democrats, the only people who wanted it.

Steve Z on October 17, 2013 at 4:39 PM

That’s fair, but like I said, he shouldn’t be burned at the stake just because he deviated on one issue.

So as long as you’re a good husband, your wife should be okay with you sleeping with the babysitter, right? I mean, it’s just one issue.

Hey, the cook at my favorite restaurant spits in the food. I’ll keep going there though. It’s just one issue, ya know?

I mean, sure, we’re talking about helping Obama accomplish his goal to fundamentally transform American once and for all and hand democrats total control for at least 100 years, but hey, it’s just one issue. No biggie.

Pfft.

No, he should be “burned at the stake” for “deviating” on one fvcking majorly important issue that would be a complete disaster for the party AND the country, and would make every other issue he might be right on completely moot if his amnesty bill ever becomes law….AFTER lying about it to get elected.

You morons are just as bad as the liberals. All issues aren’t equal to one another ya know? I don’t expect purity, but I do draw the line at being Obama’s and the democrat’s point man on pushing a piece of democrat dream legislation that they’ve been dying for that was written by one liberal front group after another.

Reagan supported amnesty too, ya know?

GOPRanknFile

Yeah, and it’s not 1986 either, ya know? And he was wrong, ya know? And at least Reagan had the intellectual honesty to call it amnesty, ya know? And I don’t remember Reagan running around with a bunch of liberal front groups pretending they were really conservatives in order to fool his base either, ya know? I also don’t remember Reagan lying about the issue in order to get elected, and then doing the complete opposite after getting elected, ya know? And according to many accounts, Reagan regretted his amnesty, ya know? And if he were alive today and supported it again despite knowing what a disaster the first one turned out to be, he’d rightly get criticized for it too….ya know?

xblade on October 17, 2013 at 5:16 PM

I’m fine with him pounding on Obamacare for the rest of his term in the Senate. Good man. Who may still have to pay for his mistake.

de rigueur

And rightly so. He’s already proven he has no problem with selling out not only the party, but the entire country. He’ll never get my vote because of it.

xblade on October 17, 2013 at 5:24 PM

saw that they can make money by riling up the stupider members of the right wing?

AirForceCane

You must have written a huge check then.

xblade on October 17, 2013 at 5:26 PM

Rubio: We’ll win on ObamaCare in the long run, because it’s unsustainable

Never before has that paused the Democrats or rinos. It will only end when the economy goes completely belly up.

RJL on October 17, 2013 at 6:02 PM

There’s a lot of truth in what you say. I think for the Tea Party folks, it’s awfully convenient to blame the establishment for everything. And the same is true of the establishment when it comes to the Tea Party. The reality is neither one is completely right and neither one is completely wrong. I think both the establishment and the TP have hurt the Republicans by their demonization of the other. The Dems have just as much infighting, but they, for the most part, keep it behind closed doors. Our side, unfortunately, doesn’t do the same. When a TP candidate beats someone in the establishment in a primary, there’s anger. The same is true if someone in the establishment defeats a TP candidate. We need to get our house in order before we can ever expect to kick Dems’ butts. Rubio and Cruz are perfect examples. Rubio supported immigration reform. Now, we see people call him a traitor, a RINO, and all sorts of nasty names. Cruz fought the good fight on Obamacare and we see people from the establishment sniping him at every chance they can get. This is not beneficial in any way. I hope both side of our side realize this sooner than later.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 2:02 PM

When the media is paying you to accept the lapdances, doesn’t that make things a wnole lot easier?

We need to get our house in order before we can ever expect to kick Dems’ butts

And that would entail just caving on 95% of the Marxist agenda as opposed to, …. say 94%?

Cool. Good luck.

98ZJUSMC on October 17, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Single payer will never happen while America is still a “free” country. It requires the government to completely take over every single industry that has an impact on healthcare. Which under our Constitution, isn’t going to happen.

I know ObamaCare leading to single payer is the Marxist wet dream. But unless the nation willingly allows the Federal Government to morph into a true Autocratic system, it isn’t happening.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 2:05 PM

Someone has been living in denial for the last few years.

ebrown2 on October 17, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Uhhh, yeah. Just a bit. The people may not accept it up front, they’ll just have it rammed down their throats…..and like it. There is a large section of the stupid demographic that simply wants – what they think – is free stuff. It’s hoped that reality conquers the stupid, eventually, and the jury is out on that. Math always conquers stupid.

98ZJUSMC on October 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM

It occurs to me that if the Republican guns hadn’t been pointed at Mitt Romney, I would not have to pay that huge increase in my insurance premiums this year.

But talk like that gets you banned on some websites.

Thanks for the civility Tea Party.

petunia on October 17, 2013 at 7:26 PM

I know this is tough for a formerly conservative site leaning
lefty itself, however, try to see the forest through the trees.
I am starting to believe that the only conservatives on this site
are some of the posters.

If it wasn’t for the shutdown, the attempt to defund Obamacare,
many Americans would not know how bad our government is on both
sides of the aisle.

Quit giving credit and media exposure to the lefties and the rinos
who trash the conservatives. Have you had one constructive thought from any of them? Nada.

The conservatives are giving it their “all”. You are phoning it in.

Amjean on October 17, 2013 at 7:29 PM

Rubio: We’ll win on ObamaCare in the long run, because it’s unsustainable

Social Security is unsustainable and we are still waiting to “win”

Dollayo on October 17, 2013 at 7:32 PM

Rubio: We’ll win on ObamaCare in the long run, because it’s unsustainable

Uh-huh.

To quote Keynes… “But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead.”

The Soviet Union was unsustainable. It didn’t end well.

Social Security and Medicare are unsustainable. It doesn’t look like they will end well. The rosiest scenario is a slow death through steadily declining benefits.

Now we have a brand new unsustainable entitlement, Obamacare. It will only grow. The Dems deliberately lied about how much it will cost. It will require steadily increasing tax revenues. By plan it is already slated to suck $700 billion out of revenues previously intended for an already unsustainable Medicare.

Wealth confiscating and redistributing American socialists are wrecking the US economy. The only reason they have not completely destroyed it yet is the world economy is dependent on the US economy, the dollar is the world’s reserve currency, there is no better place to park money than in US government bonds (a very sad state of affairs that speaks volumes about the state of the world economy), and the US government can print all of the dollars it wants. No other nation could get away with what we are getting away with. But this cannot go on forever.

farsighted on October 17, 2013 at 7:56 PM

It occurs to me that if the Republican guns hadn’t been pointed at Mitt Romney, I would not have to pay that huge increase in my insurance premiums this year. petunia October 17, 2013 at 7:26 PM

Especially the willingness to lie and say he was a bad business man coming out of Newt. No, me, I won’t ever forgive that. Because then after the election losers were saying, you mean he didn’t beat his wife?

Romney turns out to have been right on so many things. Until the recent “filibuster” by Cruz I had not heard him, he is great on his feet and like Romney, went to Harvard law, and reminds me of the way people were educated in the law back when I was in school. The founder fathers were great, logic and reason prevailed.

Fleuries on October 17, 2013 at 8:01 PM

To quote Keynes… “But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead.”

Which is why so many just want to kick the can down the road.

But this cannot go on forever.

farsighted on October 17, 2013 at 7:56 PM

The ‘long run’ isn’t as far off as many want it to be. At some point we run out of other people’s money, even a nation as wealthy as this one. (paraphrasing Baroness Thatcher’s classic quote).

Good post farsighted, Kudos!

Athos on October 17, 2013 at 8:36 PM

There is no doubt that ObamaCare will be a complete disaster.

The only question is, “Will the public entrust the incompetents who designed it to redesign or fix it or to replace it with an even more intrusive and centralized single-payer system, or the Republicans who promise repeal but have no consensus replacement plan?”

If America is willing to trust the Democrats after they taste the bitter fruits of socialized medicine, all is pretty much lost anyway, we’ve passed the tipping point where the parasites can dictate to the productive. But it wouldn’t hurt if Republicans didn’t appear in disarray and willing to risk all sorts of possible consequences to the nation without so much as consulting with each other or formulating a Plan B for after the Democrats refused to “defund.”

Adjoran on October 17, 2013 at 10:07 PM

…drink water!

KOOLAID2 on October 17, 2013 at 10:16 PM

It occurs to me that if the Republican guns hadn’t been pointed at Mitt Romney, I would not have to pay that huge increase in my insurance premiums this year. petunia October 17, 2013 at 7:26 PM

Especially the willingness to lie and say he was a bad business man coming out of Newt. No, me, I won’t ever forgive that. Because then after the election losers were saying, you mean he didn’t beat his wife? Fleuries on October 17, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Newt’s primary run was fronted by one guy Adelson, an amnesty man and GOP mega donor. You may remember Newt going squish on Amnesty in the middle of the debates

Tthe one man financed Newt campaign was weird enough to stand out, almost as if Newt was used as a vote splitter like Guiliani and fred when McCain ran, because when Newt started to soft ball amnesty, he shot himself in the foot like he was aiming for it

Adelson also dropped a load on Romney, and has pumped Boehner, Cantor for this year

Thing about Romney, he is not a promise breaker. Some of his weaker public moments might have been unwillingness to cross promises he made to donors. Net, he comes across as more honorable than most of the crop, but unfortunately, if his stand looked weak, it would have been just that if elected

He would have been such a better President than what happened. He would have kept his obamacare repeal pledge, but he probably would sign a GOP amnesty based on his big donors and his hedging
behavior. sigh

He was right about the Government Motors too but no one believed him. Now they are shipping production to China with Obama’s blessing

entagor on October 17, 2013 at 10:27 PM

…He was right about the Government Motors too but no one believed him. Now they are shipping production to China with Obama’s blessing

entagor on October 17, 2013 at 10:27 PM

Aye; GM Got Bailout, Now Ships Jobs to China

slickwillie2001 on October 17, 2013 at 10:37 PM

But alas, until the Tea Party or conservatives or whatever their name is today… until they get some more Republican blood, we can do nothing.

They want reparations for the Bush years.

I don’t know why they can’t just start from here and move forward but they want their 40 acres and a mule they think the GOP promised them a decade ago… and will make the GOP bleed until they get it.

So I don’t think we are going to win anything again for a very long time.

petunia on October 17, 2013 at 11:27 PM

So I don’t think we are going to win anything again for a very long time.

petunia on October 17, 2013 at 11:27 PM

Good! Electing Republicans who will not fight is self defeating. The Republicans are largely useless.

I can list a dozen things that the Democrats push and fight for every day decade after decade. Can you name two things that the Republicans likewise push and fight for? Trying stop the Democrats madness once in a while doesn’t count as working towards an ideal. I’ve asked my House Rep what it is that the Republicans stand for and fight for today, this week, this month, of course I’ve received no reply.

The natural order of things is that when something or someone is useless, they are replaced.

It will be very painful but it’s time for a divorce, the Republicans can happily follow their dreams of living off the Democrat table scraps.

RJL on October 18, 2013 at 12:06 AM

11,588,000+ words of regulations implementing it.

We are not going to win. That is going to sink America into a totalitarianism, the likes of which has not even been tried before. It never was about these stupid exchanges, which always were a joke. It’s not even about health care. Until our guys get the clue on this point, and grasp how much the Congress from 2008-2010 “fundamentally transformed” America with this and other bills like TARP 2 and the Stimulus, we are going to keep losing and losing badly.

I DESPISE McCain and his ilk right now and find the Beltway Republicans to be utterly repulsive when they act like we’re the ones being unreasonable.

bobcalco on October 18, 2013 at 6:22 AM

The democrats had a chance to keep the government open by agreeing to two reasonable compromises, a one year extension on the personal mandate and elimination of the medical devise tax. They caused the shutdown because they refused these two items. With all the problems with Obamacare they probably wish they had taken the deal.

Rose on October 17, 2013 at 2:22 PM

And yet not one media story noted that the Democrats caused the shutdown. The media is the enemy, not Republicans.

talkingpoints on October 18, 2013 at 6:29 AM

One reason they went to the wire might be that such action alone is able to penetrate the minds of the average voter in spite of the left’s media filters and know that it was the GOP that tried to stop this evil. Let it fail! Instead of fighting your own base GOP–work together, find some way to get every little hurt before the public so they fear that they are next and the tide will turn, unless GOP, you really in your deepest hearts like Obamacare and all that extra government money to play with??? HMmmm?

Don L on October 18, 2013 at 6:37 AM

Can you name two things that the Republicans likewise push and fight for?
RJL on October 18, 2013 at 12:06 AM

Yup, status and quo.

Don L on October 18, 2013 at 6:39 AM

ObamaCare, simply put, is a law that criminalizes anyone who disagrees with socialism.

This sort of endeavor has been practiced before around the world, and gave us the USSR, Cuba, Nazi Germany, etc.

Is there any reason to believe the outcome will be any different for us?

BobMbx on October 18, 2013 at 7:25 AM

At some point we run out of other people’s money, even a nation as wealthy as this one. (paraphrasing Baroness Thatcher’s classic quote).

Good post farsighted, Kudos!

Athos on October 17, 2013 at 8:36 PM

We passed that point long ago. Quantitative easing proves that.

And about the “Extraordinary Measures” the Treasury uses to stay below the debt ceiling? In our world, its called check kiting, and its a crime.

BobMbx on October 18, 2013 at 7:29 AM

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