Rubio: We’ll win on ObamaCare in the long run, because it’s unsustainable

posted at 12:41 pm on October 17, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

True, but this also prompts the question of why the GOP decided to shut down the government in a futile attempt to dislodge Democrats in the Senate and Barack Obama from their dream legislation.  As Marco Rubio says, it’s going to collapse of its own weight, and probably a lot sooner than anyone expected.  Why not force Democrats to vote down a delay — we already had 39 repeals on the record that Democrats ignored — and set the markers for the 2014 election?

It’s water under the bridge now, and Rubio wants to cheer up the troops:

We have missed a golden opportunity to do something about it. But we haven’t given up the fight. The one thing I want people to understand is: They should not feel depressed about this or discouraged about the long term of it. We are going to prevail on this issue. It is just a matter of time. We will prevail because ObamaCare is going to be a disaster. And it won’t be long before many people in this town will be scrambling to try to fix it.

How so? Well, Gabriel Malor points out that the exchange itself is a disaster that will keep lots of people from complying with the law, and will badly miss the White House’s own expectations:

In the memo, officials estimated that 494,620 people would sign up for health insurance under the program by Oct. 31. And that was portrayed as a slow start.

“We expect enrollment in the initial months to be low,” said the memo titled “Projected Monthly Enrollment Targets for Health Insurance Marketplaces in 2014.”

A big jump was expected after Thanksgiving, since Dec. 15 is the last day people can sign up so their coverage will take effect Jan. 1. Starting in the new year, the health care law requires virtually all Americans to have insurance or face fines. At the same time, insurance companies will be forbidden from turning away people in poor health.

That’s just the mechanism, which is bad enough.  Worse yet for Democrats — and as we’ve discussed for years at Hot Air — the voters who will get skewered the worst are those in the big progressive demographic of twenty-somethings.  Heritage unveiled a study yesterday that shows, unsurprisingly, that the young workers will carry twice the burden while getting nearly nothing from the benefits:

The Obama Administration is desperate for younger people to enroll to prevent an adverse selection death spiral. As pointed out by Sam Cappellanti at the American Action Forum, “The enrollment of these low cost young adults…is essential as they are required to subsidize the costs of insuring the elderly and chronically ill.”[6] However, young adults face a penalty for not enrolling that is projected to be far less than the insurance coverage they could receive.

Our findings confirm that younger populations see larger percentage increases in premiums. A state that exhibits this clearly is Vermont, where the increase for 27-year-olds is 144 percent and the increase for 50-year-olds is still 60 percent, but far less. All states exhibit this relationship.

Many individuals will experience sticker shock when shopping on the exchanges. It is clear that many policies and cross-subsidization within Obamacare will lead to upward shifts in premiums. These policies include the health insurance tax, essential health benefit and actuarial value regulations, less allowed age variability in premiums, community rating, and guaranteed issue.[7] However, real uncertainty, amidst a rocky start, surrounds what enrollment will look like in the exchanges.

Obamacare will leave many people paying more for their health insurance. The healthcare.gov website is learning to crawl, with additional data trickling in. However, based on information already released by HHS, states, and insurance plans, the claims of savings on premiums for the average participant is a fantasy.

Kevin Glass notes that premiums for this demographic more than double in eleven states.  It’s not much better for 50-year-olds, either.  Only in five states do premiums decline, largely because the ACA replaces worse regulation in those states. The same is true for families of four, although the increases are not as sharp, and the decreases in the five states are all less than 7%.

This kind of sticker shock will be epic, and it won’t just occur at the point of sale.  That’s why my column for The Fiscal Times today on the lessons of the shutdown ends on an optimistic note, too:

4 – Cheer up. Despite the undeniable flop of this strategy and the embarrassment of staging a two-week shutdown with nothing to show for it, it’s not the end of the world for Republicans. By avoiding the debt limit and potentially crossing the Rubicon of a default (and there is considerable doubt as to whether that would actually be the case), the damage to the GOP will be minimal.  The 1996 shutdown did less damage to Republicans than conventional wisdom holds, and in this case the next election won’t have an incumbent President on the top of the ticket.

Instead, the focus can now shift to the disastrous impact of the ACA itself, which voters left in place with their choices in 2012. It’s not just the federal exchange, which will eventually get fixed.  Premiums have skyrocketed . Americans will now have to spend thousands of dollars more on health care whether they receive subsidies on the exchanges or not.  The sticker shock on the premium prices will crescendo over the next few weeks, and the out-of-pocket expense growth will continue all year until the midterm elections.

By that time, it won’t matter whether we had a partial government shutdown for a couple of weeks, or who won or lost this skirmish. What will matter is that the electorate will finally realize that the so-called Affordable Care Act turned out to be anything but affordable, and that nothing will change as long as Democrats remain in charge.  That will give Republicans a chance to incrementally improve their position and prepare for the possibility of a repeal in 2017 – if the coalition on the Right can keep from savaging itself over strategies and tactics in between.

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.


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Where does the 36,000 number come from? I don’t believe there are that many.

Did someone offer free insurance?

faraway on October 17, 2013 at 12:44 PM

True, but this also prompts the question of why the GOP decided to shut down the government

I am so sick and tired of conservatives to allowing the left to set false narratives and don’t push back against their premise.

The GOP did NOT shut down the government!!!! They attempted to bring regular order back to the congress and Obama and the democrats shut down the government because they wanted to continue their profligate spending with these giant omnibus bills!!

Just STOP with this “GOP shutdown” nonsense!

jawkneemusic on October 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM

I want to live in a place disastrous and unsustainable government programs get fixed and shut down too, Senator Rubio.

Can you take me there? Do I eat the big mushroom or the little one?

29Victor on October 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM

as long as the government will toss money at it it will stay.

gerrym51 on October 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM

True…

True that it’s unsustainable, not necessarily true that we’ll win in the long run. Winning doesn’t even seem likely to me, we’ve entered Banana Republic land in so many ways.

Fenris on October 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM

I think the GOP made a tactical error, they just were not going to win that battle. Letting the ACA implode is a better tactic and then hammer it home. They should be trotting out everyone they can that has had an increase in premiums and really point out those deductibles. Of course they may have a hard time finding people who have actually signed up…

major dad on October 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Don’t worry the Marxists will give us single payer soon enough.

bgibbs1000 on October 17, 2013 at 12:48 PM

It is just a matter of time. We will prevail because ObamaCare is going to be a disaster. And it won’t be long before many people in this town will be scrambling to try to fix it.

That’s the problem. They will try to fix it. Someone make me feel cheerful and remind me of a time the government fixed one of their disastrous programs please.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM

Worse yet for Democrats — and as we’ve discussed for years at Hot Air — the voters who will get skewered the worst are those in the big progressive demographic of twenty-somethings.

Yea, the fact these same morons are just fine paying through the nose for gas, food and other basic needs doesn’t give me a lot of hope that they’ll be shocked by the price of their new “free” healthcare. These people are fluking drones who will never hold this POS accountable for anything because John Stewart and Colbert tell them nightly to hate the GOP.

jawkneemusic on October 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM

DEFUND THE GOP! America deserves a second political party.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

Tell that to Karl Rove. Except he’s not listening. Not listening to conservatives is what the GOP is best at.

Fenris on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

True, but this also prompts the question of why the GOP decided to shut down the government in a futile attempt to dislodge Democrats in the Senate and Barack Obama from their dream legislation.

Gee, it seems like Ed has been watching too much MSNBC. The GOP sent numerous funding bills to the Senate and not one was voted on, but “the GOP decided to shut down the government”?

cajunpatriot on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

From the Texas Medical Association:

You know what, I would think this is unsustainable. But, hey, I’m not the genius Ted Cruz tells me he is.

Quick Statistics on the Uninsured in Texas and the U.S.
Health Insurance Coverage of the Total Population, Texas (2009-2010)
Employer – 45%
Individual – 4%
Medicaid – 16%
Medicare – 9%
Other public – 1%
Uninsured – 25%
Health Insurance Coverage of Nonelderly (0-64) Population, Texas (2009-2010)

Employer – 49%
Individual – 4%
Medicaid – 16%
Other public – 3%
Uninsured – 27%

Facts

34% of children live in poverty in Texas
21% of adults (19-64)live in poverty in Texas
17% of elderly live in poverty in Texas

inklake on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

I got really frustrated just the other day and said this very same thing on Facebook. I didn’t know Rubio was following me. ;-)

The battle was well-intended, but not thought out. I completely agree with Cruz that the ACA is a pig that needs to be slaughtered, that once it is implemented it will be even more difficult to get rid of.

But I also think that we need this legislative 9-11 event. Let it go, let the Dems have everything they want on this topic. Sure, it will really suck, but so does regular exercise or chemo. Both are painful but for the better good in the long run. I’m willing to go through the pain if it makes life better for my young children.

The one flaw in this ointment is that after the collective national very loud “WTF” moment in 2014 when everyone gets their W-2, Democrats will spend the two year campaign season convincing the mindless politically apathetic masses that this turd of a bill is somehow the fault of the GOP, and that if the GOP didn’t get in the way it would truly be rainbows and skittles and puppies and sunshine for everyone in America.

Let the bill move forward. Let every single pain point resonate with the middle class. Let a few grandmas die because of health panels that the left says don’t exist. Let people die from lack of prescriptions. Let people give up comforts in order to purchase over-priced, crappy healthcare. Let them wait in long lines for over-worked doctors. Sometimes you have to give a spoiled brat what they want so that they learn by getting burned.

This isn’t how I wanted things to go, but I think the sort of scenario I describe above it the only way we can swing the pendulum back toward the right. Otherwise, we are doomed as a nation.

TheLoudTalker on October 17, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Go away, Rubio, you treasonous little worm. No one cares what you think about anything, dirtbag.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Rubio: We’ll win on ObamaCare Social Security in the long run, because it’s unsustainable

This is how stupid that Rubio thinks you are.

faraway on October 17, 2013 at 12:51 PM

People should wear T-Shirts with their percentage premium increase printed in large numbers.

JoeHanson on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

We have missed a golden opportunity to do something about it. But we haven’t given up the fight. The one thing I want people to understand is: They should not feel depressed about this or discouraged about the long term of it. We are going to prevail on this issue. It is just a matter of time. We will prevail because ObamaCare is going to be a disaster. And it won’t be long before many people in this town will be scrambling to try to fix it.

Three things.

1. No way I’m going to settle in and wait for the good news from Washington, me and a few million of my closest whacko-bird friends. Every day Ocare isn’t repealed is a day you failed, and the update is the only thing I want to see in the daily newsletter.

2. I was really finished with you when you used the word “fix.”

3. “Don’t worry, it will end no matter what, since we’ll collapse,” is not something I’ll ever recognize as “leadership on the issue.” Let someone else lead; you get on with opening the Southern border and naturalizing criminal aliens.

Axe on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Don’t worry the Marxists will give us single payer soon enough.

bgibbs1000 on October 17, 2013 at 12:48 PM

And the Establishment/Progressive Republican party will go right along with it.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Not sure I buy the next generation argument. More and more people seem quite content to simply skate by on entitlements from the office of free stuff.

stuartm650 on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

Can you tell that to McCain and other anti-Tea Party Republicans?

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

The shutdown was perfect in my opinion. The whole country knows why the Republicans did it – to kill ObamaFail. By 2014 the country will hate everything about ObamaFail and Republicans will be standing there reminding everyone they were the only ones looking out for them. The next election will be about who will save a large portion of Americans from their own stupidity.

HotAirian on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

Could someone tell John McCain that?

John the Libertarian on October 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Prove it’s unsustainable and quit asking for delays in it’s implementation. The sooner it burns the better.

fogw on October 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM

When they get the exchanges up and running — or, more likely, when they start taking applications over the phone — and people get a taste of what O’Care is really like, wouldn’t you, Professional Politician, want to be able to say, “oh, honey, I did *everything* I could to stop it”?

Long game, people. Long game.

S. Weasel on October 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Good grief, Mrs. Munford. You did it to me again.

John the Libertarian on October 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Unsustainable in Washington means triple the budget.

There Goes the Neighborhood on October 17, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Inklake, what is your point? Are you trying to tie Cruz to healthcare in Texas? For starters, he was Solicitor General of the state, not a healthcare czar. Second, your numbers provide no context such as the massive impact of illegal immigration on our population. Try again, please.

TheLoudTalker on October 17, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Axe on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

The only thing between Obamacare and the title of Best Government Program Ever, is the correct spin by the media and ratcheting up the use of the term “racist” by 15%. And, like John McCain, I guarantee that they working as hard as they can on it.

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 12:55 PM

The shutdown was perfect in my opinion.

HotAirian on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Agreed. It also raises Ted Cruz to almost Churchill proportions.

John the Libertarian on October 17, 2013 at 12:55 PM

John the Libertarian on October 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM

I’m going with great minds.

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM

Gee, it seems like Ed has been watching too much MSNBC. The GOP sent numerous funding bills to the Senate and not one was voted on, but “the GOP decided to shut down the government”?

cajunpatriot on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Right? Wth is this garbage? Individual appropriations is they way government should be funded. That’s congress’ job. Not gobbling all spending bills into one massive bill full of pork and other non essential spending. Obama,a shut down the government because he new he could bully the House into giving him their spending power by threatening default. Some how this eludes many commentators on the right. This is partly why we lose. The right NEVER pushes back against any premise the left sets. They just repeat it.

jawkneemusic on October 17, 2013 at 12:57 PM

As Marco Rubio says, it’s going to collapse of its own weight, and probably a lot sooner than anyone expected. Why not force Democrats to vote down a delay — we already had 39 repeals on the record that Democrats ignored — and set the markers for the 2014 election?

posted at 12:41 pm on October 17, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

This, I think was the great miscaluclation of the Defund or Die strategy.

While we do know from experience that, once implemented, massive governmental wealth redistribution programs (which, I think, Obamacare may be classified as) are very difficult to shrink or get rid of.

However… all the clues were evident that Obamacare’s implementation was going to nothing short of a disastrous train wreck.

If our conservative leaders had had just the right mix of savvy and prudence to play the long game correctly, we’d be in much better shape now (and the destrution of Obamacare might very well be a foregone conclusion at this point.

I do agree that not all is lost… but what we difinitely did lose was the immediate upper-hand that Providence was placing in our laps.

RightWay79 on October 17, 2013 at 12:57 PM

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

Never again will I vote for a progressive or establishment candidate simply because the have an (R) by their name. NEVER AGAIN.

If my congressional district and state chooses to nominate a Dimocrat wannabe, progressive candidate for the Republicans, I’ll be very happy voting against them.

And for the progressive GOP in the House and Senate, go right ahead, pass Obamnesty, see what happens next November.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 12:57 PM

HA, That’s funny. A RINO thinking he’ll be getting RINO help on that one.

reddevil on October 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Unsustainable in Washington means triple the budget.

There Goes the Neighborhood on October 17, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Yep. Just because something is truly unsustainable or totally destructive (which is more the case of BarkyCare) doesn’t mean that it will ever be repealed or reined in, only that it will limp along eating up more and more money and destroying more and more individual liberty in its continuing un-Constitutional existence.

Of course, Rubio is really addressing his true constituents in Mexico and points south so who knows what he is really trying to get across?

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM

I like that. Yours is a wee bit faster, though. Either that, or your fingers are faster.

John the Libertarian on October 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Didn’t Bush try to make some minor reforms to Social Security when we controlled both houses of congress?
We need to do more than just wait to have government back, that doesn’t guarantee anything. It cannot continue to be business as usual with elected Republicans, we have been losing ground steadily whether we have congress or not.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 12:59 PM

34% of children live in poverty in Texas
21% of adults (19-64)live in poverty in Texas
17% of elderly live in poverty in Texas

inklake on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Bullshit. The federal government conveniently defines “poor” as people earning a certain percentage of average income, which means there will always be people defined as “poor”.

Measures of “poverty” are also taken BEFORE the shower of freebies is counted: It Is Not True That 15% Of Americans Live In Poverty

It’s all a massive con-job designed to grow the Democratic plantation of dependents. It’s the buying of votes.

slickwillie2001 on October 17, 2013 at 12:59 PM

The shutdown was perfect in my opinion.

HotAirian on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Agreed. It also raises Ted Cruz to almost Churchill proportions.

John the Libertarian on October 17, 2013 at 12:55 PM

And like Churchill, he wasn’t very popular nationally except when people realized their lives were actually on the line.

Fenris on October 17, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Oops, I meant: Churchill, like Cruz

Fenris on October 17, 2013 at 1:00 PM

True, but this also prompts the question of why the GOP decided to shut down the government in a futile attempt to dislodge Democrats in the Senate and Barack Obama from their dream legislation.

The GOP didn’t shut down the government no mattter what the MSM and surrender caucus claim.

Nevertheless, maybe the reason why Cruz et.al. were out there is because it was the right thing to do? That they thought it a hill worth taking. That they didn’t see the value in skulking away while muttering something inane about living to fight another day.

Outside of the actions by the NPS stasi what really was the harm in a 16-day shutdown to 13% of the government? Obamacare, in the meantime, is unsistainable but you sure as hell didn’t hear anything about that from the surrender caucus.

Happy Nomad on October 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM

“That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.”

Where’s the fun in that…?

/

Seven Percent Solution on October 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Agreed. It also raises Ted Cruz to almost Churchill proportions.

John the Libertarian on October 17, 2013 at 12:55 PM

And it makes the surrender caucus and their “fought the good fight/ live to fight another day by completely caving” actions left John effing Boehner looking like Neville Chamberlain.

Happy Nomad on October 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Can this computer FUBAR really go on much longer?

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM

How are we winning on anything? There are no jobs, people who are working are underemployed, inflation is bad, and now people have to pay even more for healthcare that they won’t even be able to afford to use. If and when they fix anything, the American people will have taken another big hit in their pocket books and their quality of life.

Blake on October 17, 2013 at 1:04 PM

Sorry, Marco, but you are an idiot. Government programs never end. You guys didn’t fight to stop Obamacare. It is now forever or until the country falls–which ever comes first.

Warner Todd Huston on October 17, 2013 at 1:04 PM

Because that totally has worked with Social Security. /s
Or how about medicare? Agricultural subsidies? Green energy subsidies?
I have an awesome idea! How about the Republican party PROVE that they will actually END a program. I dont care which, just find a government program that taxes money from one set of people and gives it to another set and then, heres the key part, END IT!!!! But they never will. Why? Because thats not the hill worth fighting for. Tell me, if no hill is ever worth fighting for, when will the GOP fight?

Caesar2075 on October 17, 2013 at 1:06 PM

Dear leader heard the cries of his people and decided on his own to delay obamacare in 5..4…3

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM

Three things.

1. No way I’m going to settle in and wait for the good news from Washington, me and a few million of my closest whacko-bird friends. Every day Ocare isn’t repealed is a day you failed, and the update is the only thing I want to see in the daily newsletter.

2. I was really finished with you when you used the word “fix.”

3. “Don’t worry, it will end no matter what, since we’ll collapse,” is not something I’ll ever recognize as “leadership on the issue.” Let someone else lead; you get on with opening the Southern border and naturalizing criminal aliens.

Axe on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Triple concur.

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM

Why not force Democrats to vote down a delay — we already had 39 repeals on the record that Democrats ignored — and set the markers for the 2014 election?

Nobody who isn’t in the echo chambers of either the right or the left knows or cares about those repeals. They won’t have any traction whatsoever in an election other then at the fringes, which are already committed.

On the other hand, everybody now knows about the government shutdown and that the Tea Party pushed it to cut back Obamacare. If this thing takes down the 10% of our economy that is healthcare (oddly enough, about the same size made up of financial services, and we saw what happened when that got taken down in 2007), then the GOP is on record in the most visible way possible as having tried to pull the emergency break before the train wreck.

StargazerA5

StargazerA5 on October 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM

inklake on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Since we are comparing failed states.. You might want to look at Chicago’s poverty level in 2009.

Better yet, look at the wonderful anti-gun city for murder rates.

melle1228 on October 17, 2013 at 1:08 PM

Three things.

1. No way I’m going to settle in and wait for the good news from Washington, me and a few million of my closest whacko-bird friends. Every day Ocare isn’t repealed is a day you failed, and the update is the only thing I want to see in the daily newsletter.

2. I was really finished with you when you used the word “fix.”

3. “Don’t worry, it will end no matter what, since we’ll collapse,” is not something I’ll ever recognize as “leadership on the issue.” Let someone else lead; you get on with opening the Southern border and naturalizing criminal aliens.

Axe on October 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Triple concur.

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM

How would you propose they repeal it?

kjl291 on October 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM

“… and the decreases in the five states are all less than 7%.”

Don’t blame me…!

Seven Percent Solution on October 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Can this computer FUBAR really go on much longer?

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Yep, it can and it will. ObamaCare has not even begun to destroy America.

I would really like to know why the no bid contract to build the ObamaCare systems was given to the same company that built the PRISM system for the NSA to spy on Americans?

What secret links and connections to the ObamaCare system are buried there to allow PRISM to gather even MORE personal, financial and medical data on Americans?

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Young urban hipsters in New York and San Francisco paying a few hundred dollars a month to subsidize health care for retired conservatives in Arizona and Florida…

Gotta love Obamacare.

MichaelGabriel on October 17, 2013 at 1:10 PM

We are going to prevail on this issue. It is just a matter of time. We will prevail because ObamaCare is going to be a disaster. And it won’t be long before many people in this town will be scrambling to try to fix it.

And too many Americans are going to be hurt in the process. Right now, Republicans should be bringing up market reform bills (while there’s still a market) to lift the ban on buying health insurance across state lines and lift the cap on FSAs. This can’t wait til 2014 or 2016.

Just the fact that you have to go to a .gov website to get health insurance should have every American outraged – whether the website works or not. And why not highlight that a Canadian company was responsible for this mess?

monalisa on October 17, 2013 at 1:10 PM

TheLoudTalker,
My point is that Mr. Cruz should care about the people he was elected to represent.

inklake on October 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM

How would you propose they repeal it?

kjl291 on October 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM

No one believes they actually will even if they somehow miraculously win all three branches while calling their base traitors and wackobirds.

The GOP is dead… Has been dead for a long time. Most of us are just waking up to the fact.

melle1228 on October 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM

So basically, the GOP strategy is to let liberal programs run their course and collapse….some day, under their own weight. Well, I’ll be damned, the GOP is finally on board with Let It Burn!

Dongemaharu on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Rubio is correct. Sometimes the best way to defeat opponents or laws that we don’t like is to allow them to self-destruct.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM

You just made me feel better about their ability to spy on us.

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Sometimes I think we are no different than certain groups on the left who keep buying the BS of the Democrats and keep voting for them year after year even though they never get what was promised. We eat up the red meat these politicians through at us during election season, keep voting for them, and keep getting screwed.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

TheLoudTalker,
My point is that Mr. Cruz should care about the people he was elected to represent.

inklake on October 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM

Why the President doesn’t..

melle1228 on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Rubio is correct. Sometimes the best way to defeat opponents or laws that we don’t like is to allow them to self-destruct.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Yup, Social Security and the Department of Education will self-destruct one of these days.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:13 PM

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

True, you never know who is honest and who is pulling our chain but in the long run what choice do we have? Although I think a third party isn’t the impossibility it use to be.

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

On the other hand, everybody now knows about the government shutdown and that the Tea Party pushed it to cut back Obamacare.

StargazerA5 on October 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM

That is the truth that we, the politically obsessed, understand.

But I am not so sure that narative is what most normal folks are taking away from this episode. Obama and the Democrats are not unscathed… but Republicans – and especially Conservatives – are coming out of this a little worse in the public’s eye.

I think it foolish to dismiss most folks as stupid (or just call them LIV’ers as an epithet for moron).

So… what then to do?

I’m honestly not sure.

RightWay79 on October 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

You know what, I would think this is unsustainable. But, hey, I’m not the genius Ted Cruz tells me he is.
 
Uninsured – 25%
 
Uninsured – 27%
 
Facts
 
34% of children live in poverty in Texas
21% of adults (19-64)live in poverty in Texas
17% of elderly live in poverty in Texas
 
inklake on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

 
Interesting numbers Wow at that many uninsured. I commend you for pointing it out.
 
With that in mind, I need your input on something, please.
 

“So that’s why the individual mandate’s important,” Obama explained in a speech on Aug. 15, 2011.
 
“Because the basic theory is, look, everybody here at some point or another is going to need medical care, and you can’t be a free-rider on everybody else,” said Obama…
 
http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=14952502&sid=77&cid=77

 

The tax/fine on a person making $43K who doesn’t want or can’t afford insurance will only equal about $860 (vs. thousands in premiums and deductibles), and $860 will barely cover any actual medical procedure.
 
Hospitals will still be required by law to provide care regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay.
 
Can you explain how Obamacare does anything to change the free rider problem?
 
Give us specifics, please.

rogerb on October 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

It seems that Marco is approaching ‘broken clock status’ – he’s right twice a day…. but the ‘Gang of 8 Amnesty’ connection will be a millstone he’s going to wear a long long time.

We know that the ACA is an EpicClusterFarkNado. It was 2200+ pages of a cobbled together progressive wet dream to take over 1/6th of the national economy under federal government control that has generated 10x more pages in regulations than the original legislation comprised of.

When it fails (which will be faster than the supporters hoped it would be), the argument for it’s ‘reform’ and ‘correction’ will be that it failed because the GOP fought government mandated ‘fairness’ and only in a single payor solution can ‘fairness’ and ‘universal coverage’ be adequately delivered.

The low information voter obviously and by definition doesn’t think long term. They are only (remotely) concerned with the here and now. Something ‘free’ from the government is seen as ‘free’ even though the rest of us know that nothing is truly ‘free’. Low information voters think that they have plenty of money when they look in their checkbooks and see plenty of unwritten checks staring back at them – the actual balance of their checking account is immaterial.

If we don’t fight the ACA and the lies every step of the way, these low information voters are going to believe it when the ‘Ministry of Truth’ tells them that the GOP ‘broke’ the ACA with their opposition and their unwillingness to fund its ‘proper’ operation.

The ACA needs to be repealed. And a proper reform of the healthcare industry undertaken based on best business practices, not on cronyism or achieving political ideological goals.

Athos on October 17, 2013 at 1:15 PM

He’s right. If there is anything the government does well, it’s eliminating federal programs that are too expensive and accomplish little, if anything.

boone on October 17, 2013 at 1:15 PM

The only path to dismantling ObamaCare is to win elections in 2014 and 2016. That will require the Right to keep its political guns turned outward rather than inward.

Yeah, I do not think so. The only Republican getting my vote in 2014 is my representative who held the line on this shutdown. I say keep the ammunition flying inward at the Establishment Elite Regressives of the GOP. Toss those out who voted for allowing Obamacare to continue in 2014 and only then can you start aiming outward.

astonerii on October 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM

Rubio is correct. Sometimes the best way to defeat opponents or laws that we don’t like is to allow them to self-destruct.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Yup, Social Security and the Department of Education will self-destruct one of these days.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:13 PM

Yeouch!

Dongemaharu on October 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM

Yup, Social Security and the Department of Education will self-destruct one of these days.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:13 PM

I think you proved my point more than you would like to believe.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Winning on this doesn’t help much…if it happens after all the insurance companies are bankrupt and single-payer is the only remaining option.

krome on October 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM

How would you propose they repeal it?

kjl291 on October 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Let’s not kid ourselves. They don’t intend to. “Delay” or “fix” being the buzz mots du jour. Unless you’re running for re-election in a conservative state or district.

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM

It’s water under the bridge now, and Rubio wants to cheer up the troops:

That’s why my column for The Fiscal Times today on the lessons of the shutdown ends on an optimistic note, too:

4 – Cheer up. Despite the undeniable flop of this strategy and the embarrassment of staging a two-week shutdown with nothing to show for it, it’s not the end of the world for Republicans.

Condescension is sure to to rally the conservative base to your side. Most are dumb hicks who won’t know they are being patronized. But, look on the bright side, they don’t have the intelligence to bear any malicious intent toward the GOP establishment either.

sauldalinsky on October 17, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Triple concur.

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM

Extremist. :)

How would you propose they repeal it?

kjl291 on October 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM

By repealing it.

If you mean, how can they possibly repeal it today? my point was that there won’t be any can-kicking on this for me. I’m not going to celebrate all the little fixes, all the little victories. Rome is burning — I really don’t care if they get the tax bracket moved from 32% to 31.5%. As it all topples down, saying that they put in new code to fix a problem as part of a deal with the evil Democrat Party isn’t going to go down well. There’s nothing to do but end Ocare. The rest of this is — paid leave.

Axe on October 17, 2013 at 1:21 PM

I think you proved my point more than you would like to believe.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM

No, no he didn’t.
He proved the point that the Republicans are the water carriers of the regressive (D) illiberals of this nation.
The regressive (D) illiberals pass fail certain feel good legislation and then the regressive (R) illeberal make it last decades longer than it ever should have.

astonerii on October 17, 2013 at 1:21 PM

I think you proved my point more than you would like to believe.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM

I know they will, the question is whether sitting around and waiting for them to self destruct is the best plan. How long has Social Security been around?

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Let’s not kid ourselves. They don’t intend to. “Delay” or “fix” being the buzz mots du jour. Unless you’re running for re-election in a conservative state or district.

de rigueur on October 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM

^ Exactly.

Axe on October 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM

No, no he didn’t.
He proved the point that the Republicans are the water carriers of the regressive (D) illiberals of this nation.
The regressive (D) illiberals pass fail certain feel good legislation and then the regressive (R) illeberal make it last decades longer than it ever should have.

astonerii on October 17, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Lol okay. ;)

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:24 PM

My point is that Mr. Cruz should care about the people he was elected to represent.

inklake on October 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM

You didn’t have a point. The federal government doesn’t exist to give sh!t to people and it has no business in the individual health insurance market. Ted Cruz is elected to protect and defend the Constitution in his position in an arm of government, not to grab as much free sh!t as he can for his constituents or anyone. If you want to live in a Democracy then move to Europe or anywhere else. This nation is supposed to be a Constitutional Republic which means that the whim of the voter is constrained the same way that the branches of the federal government are, by the limits of the supreme law. The Constitution does not make health insurance or health care part of the powers or responsibilities of Congress. Of course, you don’t know or care what the Constitution says about anything …

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 1:24 PM

I know they will, the question is whether sitting around and waiting for them to self destruct is the best plan. How long has Social Security been around?

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:21 PM

No, they won’t. Thanks to Republicans they will just keep getting one extension after another. Republicans will, in short order be the ones increasing the taxes and changing structures minimally on Social Security and Medicare in order to keep them around for a few more decades.
They increased the power of the Department of Education with No Child Left Behind. If it needs another injection, they will be there to vote for that too.
As for obamacare, they will just tweak it in the end. They will get rid of the worst parts that drive prices up most, but keep the structure parts, such as the MANDATE in tact to keep it functioning.
That is what they do. Time and time again!

astonerii on October 17, 2013 at 1:25 PM

They should not feel depressed about this or discouraged about the long term of it. We are going to prevail on this issue. It is just a matter of time.

Whoops, wrong thread. I thought he was talking to the illegals.

moo on October 17, 2013 at 1:26 PM

I know they will, the question is whether sitting around and waiting for them to self destruct is the best plan. How long has Social Security been around?

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:21 PM

You’re absolutely right about that. We tried the other option, and it failed and we looked worse as a result. I was all for trying to defund it if there was a clear strategy laid out. Perhaps that would have been possible. I admire Cruz for his courage and his principled opposition, but he went about the wrong way. I would have much rather Lee lead the fight than Cruz.

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:26 PM

You just made me feel better about their ability to spy on us.

Cindy Munford on October 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Well the system “failures” might give you that perception.

Unless you explore the very real possibility that the system “glitches” people have seen so far in ObamaCare aren’t really glitches at all.

I read an article the other day that talked about the glitches were meant to look that way just so fewer people would be able to actually get into the system far enough to see how much their premiums were going up. In order to limit the sticker shock to the public.

Either way though its not good. Either the taxpayer got stuck for a $400million system that is complete trash. Or it really does work and they’re simply manipulating and misleading the public…again.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 1:27 PM

Rubio: We’ll win on ObamaCare in the long run, because it’s unsustainable

…just like Social Security and Medicare! Good thing those programs died off two a year after they were implemented!

dominigan on October 17, 2013 at 1:32 PM

34% of children live in poverty in Texas
21% of adults (19-64)live in poverty in Texas
17% of elderly live in poverty in Texas

inklake on October 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Define poor–I bet 1/2 of those are obese by medical standards. Living in poverty would equate to the wealthy in 2nd/3rd world countries. Try again.

hillsoftx on October 17, 2013 at 1:34 PM

Yeah, Marco seems not to understand how entitlements work. Social security is unsustainable too. Try getting rid of that now. This country is gone.

Zetterson on October 17, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Difference is people pay into medicare/social security. Obamacare is a complete redistribution of wealth and a cluster. Another difference is people can actually compare what they were paying before obamacare and after, and their not very happy about it.

Ta111 on October 17, 2013 at 1:35 PM

My point is that Mr. Cruz should care about the people he was elected to represent.

inklake on October 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM

And how many people in your little percentages just simply refused to pay for overpriced insurance because they didn’t want to? I went without any plan, paid cash, until this ObamaCare mess because I take care of myself, take little risks. I CHOSE not to buy insurance. Now I no longer have that choice. Why? Because some fascist prick in the White House and his army of drones decided they know what’s best for me and my family.

You can get fluked!

jawkneemusic on October 17, 2013 at 1:38 PM

The gop will win in the end. Why? Because the entire country, to include the low info voters, know they tried to kill it. When it goes into effect, the gop will be vindicated. Plus we get to primary all the rats that showed their true colors. Thank you Cruz and Lee!

Jack_Burton on October 17, 2013 at 1:38 PM

The thought that this is going to “collapse on its own” is laughable.

Just like Social Security and every other fiscally unsustainable government program has imploded on its own structural deficiencies?

Yeah… I’m waiting to hear the names of the entitlement programs that have been axed in the past.

Defenestratus on October 17, 2013 at 1:39 PM

If failure got the populace to vote against Democrats then how come Detroit is still 100% Democrat controlled?

Rubio is wrong. Obamacare will fail, of course. It will also cause more Democrats to win elections.

happytobehere on October 17, 2013 at 1:39 PM

GOPRanknFile on October 17, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Yes. But I am thinking more in general terms about the ineffectiveness of the GOP compared to the Dems. Granted, the Dems have the support of the LSM, but still. I just don’t have any confidence in the GOP winning any battle of significance, they just don’t have the fire in their belly, or they just pay lip service to their base.
The real fight was before Obamacare was passed. They had the great majority of the public on their side and still failed to stop it. You can bet the Dems would not have failed if the shoe was on the other foot, regardless of the makeup of government. They sure were able to stop Bush’s Social Security reform even though they were a minority.
This is why disagree with peoples confidence in the ability of the GOP to dismantle Obamacare when they are in the majority, they haven’t shown they are capable of doing it.

neuquenguy on October 17, 2013 at 1:41 PM

The thought that this is going to “collapse on its own” is laughable.

Just like Social Security and every other fiscally unsustainable government program has imploded on its own structural deficiencies?

Yeah… I’m waiting to hear the names of the entitlement programs that have been axed in the past.

Defenestratus on October 17, 2013 at 1:39 PM

It is laughable. But the establishment Repukes in Congress want us to “TRUST THEM” on it.

Yeah, I’m done trusting them. Never again.

Defund the GOP.

Meople on October 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM

Just to remind everyone who gets gleeful at all the obamacare problems. It is designed to fail. In this way the government steps in as the insurer of last resort, and voila! single payer emerges from the ashes.

paulsur on October 17, 2013 at 1:53 PM

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