Quotes of the day

posted at 10:41 pm on October 16, 2013 by Allahpundit

At the last GOP conference meeting of the two-week government shutdown, no lawmakers went to the microphones to give their take.

Instead, after Speaker John Boehner told Republicans they had “fought the good fight,” they all rose up to offer a standing ovation. “It was one of the easiest meetings we’ve ever had,” says Representative Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina…

“We all agree Obamacare is an abomination. We all agree taxes are too high. We all agree spending is too high. We all agree Washington is getting in the way of job growth. We all agree we have a real debt crisis that will cripple future generations. We all agree on these fundamental conservative principles. … We must not confuse tactics with principles. The differences between us are dwarfed by the differences we have with the Democratic Party, and we can do more for the American people united,” he told them.

***

“Republicans always had one of two choices,” Kibbe said. “They could fight against Democrats who were completely intransigent – they said ‘I’m not going to negotiate.’ Or they could capitulate early on.”

“Instead of presenting a united front opposed to Obamacare, opposed to spending so much money we don’t have, they started shooting at each other,” he continued…

“So, did you actually accomplish anything?” Cooper asked.

Kibbe replied that he thought he did. “What we accomplished was fighting,” he said. “It’s important in Washington D.C. to step up to the plate and actually stand for something.”

***

In a sign of the internal backlash against the right wing of the House Republican Conference, Louisiana Republican Charles Boustany questioned the political allegiances and motivations of his tea party-aligned colleagues and said they had put the GOP majority at risk in the current shutdown fight.

“There are members with a different agenda,” Boustany said Wednesday in an interview in his office. “And I’m not sure they’re Republicans and I’m not sure they’re conservative.”…

[H]e pointed the blame squarely at tea party lawmakers who he said were more concerned about bolstering their conservative bona fides than governing.

“Their allegiance is not to the members in the conference. Their allegiance is not to the leadership team and to conservative values,” he said. “Their allegiance is to these outside Washington DC interest groups that raise money and go after conservative Republicans.”

***

Ted Cruz and Mike Lee may not have been able to strike a death blow to Obamacare today, but they were able to fight a fight that would have been impossible before them. They have now made it less and less possible for Republicans to collaborate with Democrats to fix or stabilize Obamacare…

The establishment has given conservatives a brilliant opportunity to advance against them and then against the Democrats. As Obamacare now goes into effect full swing, conservatives can show that they tried to stop it while Mitch McConnell and so many others sat and watched from a cozy booth the Capitol Hill Club leaving the fighting to others while they did everything possible to undermine the fight.

As more Americans watch Obamacare fail them through the Republican primary season, conservatives will be able to put the focus on Republicans who funded Obamacare instead of fighting it. Whether they like it or not, Republicans in Congress will find their names on ballots in 2014. They cannot hide or escape fate.

***

Grover Norquist isn’t happy with the Defunders. The Americans for Tax Reform president told reporters today that they have a lot of apologies to make and bridges to re-build.

“It’d be a good idea if they stopped referring to other Republicans as Hitler appeasers because they opposed the strategy they put forward which failed,” Norquist says. “I think if you make a mistake as big as what they did, you owe your fellow senators and congressmen a big apology — and your constituents, as well, because nothing they did advanced the cause of repealing or dismantling Obamacare.”…

“They hurt the conservative movement, they hurt people’s health care, they hurt the country’s economic situation and they hurt the Republican party,” he says. “And a lot of congressmen and senators are not going to win because we spent three months chasing our own tail — or at least, parts of the conservative movement spent three months chasing their own tail.”…

“These are the people who said, ‘Plan: Step One, Invade Iraq. Step Two, It turns into Kansas,’” Norquist says. “Could I ask if there’s anything in between Step One and Step Two? ‘Oh ye of little faith.’”

***

“In conventional terms, it seems inexplicable, but Senator Cruz and his adherents do not view things in conventional terms. They look back over the past half-century, including the supposedly golden era of Ronald Reagan, and see the uninterrupted forward march of the American left. Entitlement spending never stopped growing. The regulatory state continued to expand. The national debt grew and grew and finally in the Obama years, exploded. They see an American population becoming unrecognizable from the free and self-reliant people they thought they knew. And they see the Republican Party as having utterly failed to stop the drift toward an unfree nation supervised by an overweening and bloated bureaucracy. They are not interested in Republican policies that merely slow the growth of this leviathan. They want to stop it and reverse it. And they want to show their supporters they’ll try anything to bring that about.

“And if some of those things turn out to be reckless and doomed, well so be it.”

***

The latest Pew Research Center poll is chock full of data revealing an emerging rift between tea party-aligned Republicans and the rest of the party. But if there is one area of relative agreement, it’s this: a belief that tea party is independent from the GOP.

More than half of all Republicans (51 percent) say the the tea party is separate. Only about three in 10 say it is part of the Republican Party. Nearly equal shares of tea party Republicans and Republican-leaning independents (52 percent) and non-tea party Republicans and GOP-leaning independents (55 percent) say the movement is separate from the GOP…

The question is how strong that link is and where it’s headed in the future. It’s clearly eroded in recent months: The poll shows a drop in tea party favorability among conservative, moderate and liberal Republicans since June.

***

In its statement on the senate deal, Freedom Works asserts “The line separating the Democrats and the Republican establishment is fading- it might have disappeared today. This is about Washington insiders versus the rest of America now.” Leaving aside the fact that many real Americans outside the establishment do not see eye to eye with Freedom Works, this seems like just another version of the beloved mantra of Naderites, Anarchists and other outfits on the political periphery: There’s not a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties. And I think that is nonsense. It’s one thing to say that the GOP is too liberal or the Democrats are too conservative, statements that have often been not merely defensible but accurate, depending on where you sit on the political spectrum. But the notion that there is no meaningful difference between the two parties is just silly. Even if supposed RINOs John McCain or Mitt Romney had been elected, the policies we have today would be very, very different. If McCain won, we might have had less than ideal healthcare reforms, but we wouldn’t have gotten ObamaCare. If Mitt Romney had won, regardless of what was in his heart, his vows to Republican voters would have required him to undo ObamaCare, perhaps not entirely but certainly very significantly.

Let’s simply agree that for the sake of argument that the deal hashed out by McConnell is awful. He was left with no good options. No fair minded person can really argue that this predicament is where the Republican leadership wants to be. When the Japanese signed their surrender to the Americans, it would be ridiculous to say that the “line separating the Japanese and the Americans disappeared today.” The Japanese simply lost and that they tried to lose on the best terms possible. The same goes for the GOP. A Japanese nationalist would be on firmer ground criticizing the Japanese leadership for losing, and a libertarian populist — or even an establishment “RINO” — could likewise condemn failures of GOP leadership, whatever they may be. But as an analytical matter those failures simply don’t mean that we have anything like a single mono-ideological party called the “establishment.”

***

Senate Republicans knew the House GOP conference was divided, and they knew Boehner’s hold on his conference was shaky, but they were still stunned by the GOP’s utter failure to accomplish anything.

“They are a majority party that wants to be a minority party,” the Senate Republican aide said of the House GOP. “This is not how a majority party acts. The majority party takes the power that it has and puts it to use. And in this case, they refused to use the power they had because they would rather rail against the majority that they should be trying to deal with.”

“They showed they would rather be in the minority than have to deal with a Democratic majority in the Senate and a Democratic president.”

***

If no understanding can be reached between Republican and conservative leaders, then one of the two groups will be destroyed — either the party, or the movement. When I see hard-core conservative lawmakers like Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, and Raul Labrador, R-Idaho circling the wagons around Speaker Boehner today, that’s a sign that conservative leaders have a lot more to lose. Recall that Labrador wouldn’t even vote for Boehner for Speaker. Yet at this juncture, he seems to appreciate the situation the Speaker was boxed into.

Are GOP leaders also at risk? Yes, but in a much less meaningful sense. They can lose their majorities. (Recall that this didn’t work out so well for conservatives last time, when Democrats took control and passed Obamacare.) Or the leaders could lose their positions within the party. But yesterday’s events proved that they are relatively powerless within the party anyway. Sure, you can topple Boehner, Cantor, and McConnell, but unless the conservative leadership embraces realism, all you get is another group of party leaders you can put into unrealistic positions, whom you can’t work with, who will gradually become less and less willing even to bother trying to work with you.

Consider the gains the pro-life movement has made over the years within the Republican Party, state legislation, the courts, and public opinion. There is no cause I believe more worthy in all the world. Yet where would pro-lifers be today had they instead simply and inflexibly demanded a government shutdown unless and until abortion was abolished? Pro-lifers figured out a way to work within the system and advance the ball.

The reconciliation that’s needed now will be difficult because of the current (and very predictable) bitterness caused by the perceived sell-out on the one side and the moving of the goalposts on the other. But neither the GOP nor conservatism can stand independently of one another. As they once said of the disunity among the colonies, the only option are to “Join or Die.”

***

As [one GOP strategist] noted, “Before the shutdown it wasn’t plausible that Democrats could regain the House next year. It may be plausible now, but we aren’t sure. But a mediocre year in 2014 for Republicans could improve the chances of a Democratic House takeover in 2016, a presidential year.”

“We need to have good years in (what should be) good years, because you know we are going to have bad years in bad years,” he continued, worrying that the last two weeks have turned lemonade back into a lemon for House Republicans.

All of this leaves two questions. First, are we going to see a replay of the last few weeks in January and February, when the current budget deal expires? And second, will a full-scale Republican civil war — which could be played out in Senate races from Kentucky to Kansas and Mississippi — follow?

***

***

***

Via the Daily Rushbo.

***

She added that the tea party should “consider whether they want to be the name-callers of the drama,” noting that the conservative grassroots has a penchant for calling Republicans who disagree with their approaches “RINOs” and “the surrender caucus.”

“Hecklers,” Kissel added.

“Dumb stuff,” Noonan agreed. “Stop it. You’re grown up. You’re big people in a big drama that may be a big evolution. Sit down. Get along. Work it out.”

***

“I was trying to think earlier today, if ever in my life I could remember any major political party being so irrelevant.”


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sleep well mr fred

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 2:37 AM

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 2:32 AM

back briefly.
Don’t get me wrong. I’d back Liz in almost any other circumstance.
Not sure where she stands on many issues. It just isn’t logical to replace a bonafide con with a ? Were she to run in VA and replace a prog then I would be very pleased.

Fred

jrsrigmvr on October 17, 2013 at 2:39 AM

understood,,,

we dont have the luck of picking between to Repubs here..
so you got that going for ya,,

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 2:46 AM

No we are not going to see a replay of the fight when the debt ceiling comes again, the rules have been changed and there will be no reason to fight.

Meremortal on October 17, 2013 at 2:48 AM

the clever thing about the ‘suspension’ of the debt limit is that they can now formalize what extraordinary measures have done. Last time it was several 100B. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this will be 500B just to catch up…plus at 100B per month to Feb, say 400B. So i bet this is effective a trillion dollar increase, i.e. 17.3T by Feb…without any numbers even specified.

r keller on October 17, 2013 at 2:11 AM

My best read of that is a bit less than your estimates. The math on the previous “formalization” of the “extraordinary measures”:

Gross public debt increase in February (the month the first debt-ceiling suspension began) – $253 billion
Deficit in February – $204 billion
Imputed “formalization” of the “extraordinary measures” from mid-December through the suspension of the debt ceiling – $49 billion

Given the deficits from the beginning of May through the end of August were $268 billion, and September has historically been (and, more importantly, was last year) a slightly cash-positive month for the Treasury, I’d expect an increase in the debt in the $250 billion-$300 billion range from the “formalization” of the “extraordinary measures”.

As for the October-January effect, $400 billion of new debt is in the ballpark – after all, all those “trust funds” get credited with a half-year’s worth of “interest” at the end of December.

Steve Eggleston on October 17, 2013 at 2:53 AM

The GOP is in serious danger of fracturing.

This is major serious because we could lose the House in 2014 if the Tea Partiers and others decide to stay home or vote for divisive (but common) third candidates. And that could mean a free hand for Obama’s agenda of open borders and communal control of our economy and lives.

As far as our presidential candidate, now more than ever we need to get a strong conservative candidate to unify conservatives, NOT a moderate to attract Democrats. Because a moderate like the climate change pushing Chris Christie or Rubio would crate a gargantuan “missing white vote” or missing Tea Party vote. The main issue is not going to be attracting a few stray Dems, but getting the greatest amount of party unity!

Something needs to be done to unify the party before 2014.

We could lose the House not because Dems or independents are upset with Republicans, but because Tea Partiers and other Republicans are upset with Republicans. Look, that was why Romney lost, because of this “missing white vote.” But Romney’s “missing white vote” might be a drop in the bucket in comparison to what the future could hold.

A strong presidential candidate, emerging early (soon!), could do a lot to unify the GOP, like Palin or Cruz, if they are able to convince Tea Partiers and Paulites and others not to bolt. One strength of Palin is that she relates to the working class. That’s huge. No other R that I know can do that like she can.

Also, with these bitter Tea Partier feelings of betrayal on the shutdown, it would be a disaster if the establishment, like Rino Ryan, pushes amnesty now. Talk about bad timing. Amnesty would be the last straw.

But for a bit brightness on this dim night, an unusual positive spin is put on the seeming shutdown fiasco: http://www.redstate.com/2013/10/16/methinks-the-tea-party-just-went-back-on-the-warpath/

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 3:11 AM

So we’ve gone around the maypole a few times and ended up in a slightly worse position than we might have had by just keeping the sequestration cuts in order and pressure on the debt ceiling (no long-term hike without entitlement reforms).

But Cruz and Lee did manage to compile databases of over 1 million each of people simple-minded enough to believe “signing” an internet “petition” had some effect for future fundraising appeals. So they did okay with the whole fiasco.

Adjoran on October 17, 2013 at 3:19 AM

The GOP is in serious danger of fracturing.

This is major serious because we could lose the House in 2014 if the Tea Partiers and others decide to stay home or vote for divisive (but common) third candidates. And that could mean a free hand for Obama’s agenda of open borders and communal control of our economy and lives.

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 3:11 AM

We are in danger of the GOP not fracturing and dying. The GOP leadership is in favor of both of those issues you mentioned, so what good does voting GOP do for anyone who opposes aiding and abetting illegals, printing up citizenships like they were going out of style, or having the feral government examine and dictate our every action, thought, and feeling? Voting GOP does nothing to stop any of that.

My last GOP vote was in 2012. After decades of being a consistent GOP voter, I’m done. I’ve had enough back-stabbing and abuse from a bunch of treasonous, lowlife half-wits.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 3:20 AM

As someone once said, no, let me change that, as someone said many times: The GOP will betray you. Wiser words never spoken.

mobydutch on October 17, 2013 at 3:28 AM

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 3:11 AM

140 plus House Rs voted against the bill. I assume they did this because they represent their constituents. I further assume that they are in pretty red districts.

the 85 (or whatever) that voted for the bill made the same calculation…and acted accordingly. So the ‘party’ may be fractured, but that’s because the country is fractured. The House is (hopefully) safe.

I agree with your point at the prezy level. Conservative will not vote for a squish. A squish will lose. I think there’s good odds on that. If Christie can come across as serious about working against cronyism, and against central planning, he may have a chance.

that will be the tale of the tape. I think the Senate is very unpredictable. I think the state GOP organizations are pretty lousy affairs…based on 2012 and 2010. The state organization (yes, with help from the RNC and Rove) don’t know what to do. So the default is Ds retain senate, with Harry in charge. I.e. more of the same.

r keller on October 17, 2013 at 3:31 AM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 3:20 AM
mobydutch on October 17, 2013 at 3:28 AM

yes but…the more of us that ‘drop out’
the faster the end will come…
these are times we need more ppl with logic and reason…not less

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 3:33 AM

My last GOP vote was in 2012. After decades of being a consistent GOP voter, I’m done. I’ve had enough back-stabbing and abuse from a bunch of treasonous, lowlife half-wits.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 3:20 AM

i don’t think you are the only one. GOPe may not yet understand that. Maybe by 2020 they will (slow learners…and it is hard to talk someone out of a position that he’s been paid to take)

r keller on October 17, 2013 at 3:35 AM

these are times we need more ppl with logic and reason…not less

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 3:33 AM

Logic and reason are not welcome in the American Socialist Superstate. Empathy is what guides this deformed America, now – as was officially stated and confirmed by our friendly Senate GOP during the Sotomayor hearings. They couldn’t quite manage to stop that (thank Lady Lindsey for ever letting that get out of committee) even though making empathy a legitimate main criterion for a judge or justice goes totally against the foundation and 3000+ year history of Western jurisprudence.

A national divorce is what’s needed and a national divorce is what’s coming. Better sooner than later.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 3:38 AM

and it is hard to talk someone out of a position that he’s been paid to take)

r keller on October 17, 2013 at 3:35 AM

yes and also..there are some places where we are never going to
get the numbers we need…
cali…new york…ill…michigan where we have
had carl (the socalist) levin for more than 30 years..
what im saying is…when Detroit and the unions vote..
my small towns votes….dont count..
we are run over by numbers …
we need to show Detroit as a liberal petry dish of over
50 years of liberal ideas…liberal management,,,liberal mayors

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 3:41 AM

i don’t think you are the only one. GOPe may not yet understand that. Maybe by 2020 they will (slow learners…and it is hard to talk someone out of a position that he’s been paid to take)

r keller on October 17, 2013 at 3:35 AM

The GOP understands it perfectly well. They just experienced this after they tried to aid and abet illegals in 2006-2007. People left the GOP and the party became a pariah to all, to conservatives most of all. That’s what brought Barky around, to begin with. The GOP knows that they are killing themselves. They knew that when that despicable POS Rubio started pushing the treason again and the GOP leadership got on board with him – and not just pushing their treason but ignoring that barky had committed, yet, another major impeachable act when he took it on his whim to change law, erase borders, and declare a bunch of young(ish) illegals to have legal residency privileges. The House GOP should ahve been impeaching Barky (regardless of whether the Senate would convict or not) but instead they colluded with him and pushed the same cr@p; the same cr@p that had just about killed the GOP before (until the Tea Party revived their pathetic azzes in 2010.

No. The GOP is on a suicide run … for whatever demented reason drives them. They won’t stop until they’re dead. I hope they get their wish soon … and that it’s excruciatingly painful for them.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 3:44 AM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 3:38 AM

im not so sure your not correct here..
ive always thought we should divide it up along the mighty mississippi….
but if we go by red counties blue counties
we’d have 90%of the land mass…..
we could of course…all head north..canada only has 30 some million ppl we could over run them in a generation…
(gotta be less libs in canada than cali… :o)

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 3:46 AM

If you’re looking for someone to blame, try the millions of mindless, compliant Time Machine “Elois” known as the “electorate”. This country has descended to these depths because it’s inhabitants wanted it to. Bungling Republicans are but a symptom of much larger problem.

rplat on October 17, 2013 at 3:55 AM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 3:44 AM

i guess my point here is..there are places that would
never elect a Lee or a Cruz..
the bright side..
10 years ago there was no tea party candidates limited government types…in the house or senate..
now they hear us at the door…
we need to push another 20-25 in the house in 14
and a few more in the senate would be good..
we were never going to change all that was wrong with that place
in a short time period…
things like the WWII mem. closure helped clearly define what we are for…..and what they are not in support of…
its a long war…
wild spending..clearly defined whos on what side..
bho-care…….we tried to save them from this debacle..

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 4:00 AM

try the millions of mindless, compliant Time Machine “Elois” known as the “electorate”.
rplat on October 17, 2013 at 3:55 AM

i called them Detroiters and union voters…
but i like your discription too..

going2mars on October 17, 2013 at 4:03 AM

John Sununu and the Hijacking of America

Resist We Much on October 16, 2013 at 11:14 PM

Good read. Worth the time.

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 4:12 AM

What about Blogmocracy, I tried it but haven’t been a regular yet.

Bishop on October 16, 2013 at 11:04 PM

Thanks for the tip.

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 4:28 AM

We are in danger of the GOP not fracturing and dying…

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 3:20 AM

Ok, but, and I have to agree with your sentiment, what is the alternative? We need another party, then, right?

Of course, because if we split our vote between conservative, or stay home, the Dems sweep. Hilary, 60+ senators, a Full House. Then we have amnesty, in fact open legal Mexican immigration at any time, single payer with the more affluent forced for “fairness” to not buy their own medical services, wealth taxes, public finances of all campaigns, business appropriation (takeover) by govt and property & $ (like in Cypress), and squelching of free speech in conservative media just like hotair here, not to mention Rush.

See what I’m saying.

Idealistic attitudes like yours, noble maybe that they are and I often share the feeling, and indeed I would like a wrecking ball new party replacement for the GOP, but our attitude, if we really sit it out or vote elsewhere, could kill us. So, it’s a tough call. Maybe if we get Cruz or Palin or DeMint leading the way, they could take control and get us supportive again.

And really, as much as I despised the severely (r@tarded) conservative Romney, beyond his colossal idiocy, he did lose the election because of those that shared your attitude, and we lost a ton of senate races because of it. If the “missing white voted” had voted, we would have won the senate and presidency. And Obamacare would very likely be in process of being repealed now, even if the cost would have been a Romneyite replacement.

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 4:58 AM

In about 2 months every Republican attacking the Tea Party will be front and center about how they fought to defund Obamacare, which is turning into the greatest legislative catastrophe since prohibition.

rob verdi on October 17, 2013 at 5:24 AM

On a related note, the msm/rino meme that the shutdown covers for negative stories about Obamacare are meaningless. The o-care catastrophe is happening to millions of people directly, they don’t no need “buzz” to realize they can’t afford to live because Government social engineering.

rob verdi on October 17, 2013 at 5:26 AM

And really, as much as I despised the severely (r@tarded) conservative Romney, beyond his colossal idiocy, he did lose the election because of those that shared your attitude,

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 4:58 AM

I viewed Mittens (as pathetic as he was) as the last possible chance to be able to restore the American Constitutional Republic. Not that Mittens would do it, but to get Barky out would have been the key. And Barky couldn’t have been a worse candidate. He had screwed up everything he touched since he slimed into office and his idiocy and treason was breaking records going into the election. But … Mittens couldn’t stop himself from having to say “repeal … AND REPLACE” BarkyCare. Mittens couldn’t fight, as much as I hoped he would every single day. Mittens just sat there like a lump. We all fought for him but he had no interest in the Presidency.

That was the last chance, though. Not because of Mittens but because of the situation and irreparable deformation that this nation had had forced on it. When Mittens lost, that was basically it. For anyone who didn’t understand the finality of it the moron House GOP re-elected the biggest failure ever in the Speakership. At that point I was done with the GOP. And they were definitely done with me as the GOP went into overdrive in attacking the Tea Party (which they had started right after we handed them the biggest Congressional sweep in over 70 years – which is why they did so poorly in 2012 and will do far worse in 2014).

At this point, there is no United States left. There is no Constitutional Republic. Just the American Socialist Superstate, with directives and dictats about everything flowing right out of the pea-brain in the Oval Office and no one else doing anything. There was one brief moment of possibility when Cruz energized this defund tactic (though it should have been full-out repeal) but we passed through the eye of the storm in no time as the eyewall just hit us in the face. There is no escaping this storm and it will take down everything in its path.

Sad, but that’s how it is. There will be no Constitutional Republic restored for this nation. Too much has happened and there cannot be any trust left in the same government that made such a mockery of law and of Americanism, in general, over these past 5 years. The only way an American Constitutional Republic will exist in this world is if it’s created anew. The damage has just been that pervasive and irreversible and the GOP leadership not only did nothing to stop it but colluded with the Dems and the third-world retard in carrying it all out.

This is what I saw happening if Barky got elected back in 2008 and this is what I’ve seen actually happen since then. This nation killed itself and that is about all she wrote. Suicide by Indonesian.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 5:32 AM

If Christie can come across as serious about working against cronyism, and against central planning, he may have a chance.

r keller on October 17, 2013 at 3:31 AM

Well, putting the spotlight specifically on Christie, I think his hugfest with Obama, and his profuse complements of Obama just days before the election stunk of self-promoting opportunism, as if he wanted Romney to lose because that would be his opportunity in 2016, that’s problematic, and in combination with his other issues, is going to engender a significant “missing white vote.”

Also, probably among other things, Christie’s position on climate change is not consistent with those that don’t want central planning.

If climate change really was a threat to the world’s very existence, as Christie maintains right alongside the leftists and Jon Huntsman, we’ve got to have central planning to put a clamp on CO2 based industrialization. A quote:

“Climate change is real. When you have over 90 percent of the world’s scientists who have studied this stating that climate change is occurring and that humans play a contributing role it’s time to defer to the experts.” -Chris Christie

Christie said that well over a year after the Climategate scandal (Nov 2009) that convinced most Republicans that climate change was a politically driven issue championed by leftists, and that the science was bogus. But Christie still insists that his fellow Republicans are anti-science and that we should “defer to the experts” despite the fact that these politically motivated supposed experts were caught with their pants down manipulating data to dupe the public.

To gain Republican support and limit the magnitude of the “missing white vote” caused by his position on climate change, the best Christie could do is equivocate like Romney did in such a repugnant manner, or flipflop (which people tend to distrust). So, climate change is just one of many issues where the big guy would exacerbate Romney’s missing white vote problem.

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 5:34 AM

mika and joe taking a victory lap this am….don’t think i can listen to long to them this am….they are going to rehash this ad nauseum through the sunday shows now….

so mika, since this is over are you going to focus on obamacare? yeah, i didn’t think so….

the lsm will still not report on the boondoggle of obamacare…sweep it right under the rug

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 6:07 AM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 17, 2013 at 5:32 AM

You’re right, Romney didn’t fight, and caved or squishy talked and failed to fight it out on issues where he would have won critical independents and brought the “missing white vote” into the voting booth, namely gay marriage and immigration. And elsewhere he blew it. A numbskull. Sure, humans aren’t perfect, but Romney was way way out of place as a political candidate.

And I have a problem with the “national divorce” idea (though I’m not 100% exactly sure what it is) you are talking about partly because I’m in CA unfortunately and that would I think mean that I would be screwed unless I get out though who knows I might anyway. Beyond that there may be practical problems to it, let alone whether some parts of the country would let the other parts go (remember the Civil War?). I could be wrong, though, and again I’m not really fully sure what you’re talking about.

Anyway, I hope in the future circumstances may lead you to reconsider your jettisoning of the GOP. Because if your position stays the same, it probably means others won’t change either, and barring some unforeseen new party that takes over completely, were screwed then I think, because we will then lose to the Dems. And if the Dems are reading these comments tonight they must just be loving life, nlol. My remedy is to hopefully get a conservative like Palin or Cruz or DeMint at the head of the ticket. But we do have to worry about 2014, because if we lose the House then bad things will happen.

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 6:07 AM

yeah, its going to be the “i told you so” party this am….
switching channels…

let me know how it goes renalin and marcus…

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 6:09 AM

Good Morning, Patriots! And, reactivated Trolls.
kingsjester ‏@kingsjester1-The Vichy Republicans at least could have kissed us, first. I mean, Michael Corleone kissed Fredo.
My take: “The Shutdown: The Surrender of the GOP Elite”

kingsjester on October 17, 2013 at 6:39 AM

kingsjester on October 17, 2013 at 6:39 AM

EXCELLENT KJ….

Read it folks

the new axis against america is upon us…

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 6:44 AM

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 6:44 AM

Thank you, ma’am!

kingsjester on October 17, 2013 at 6:50 AM

My take: “The Shutdown: The Surrender of the GOP Elite”

kingsjester on October 17, 2013 at 6:39 AM

Good read. Hey, shouldn’t all the headlines read: REPUBLICANS END SHUTDOWN ? They’re the ones who caved.

SailorMark on October 17, 2013 at 6:50 AM

SailorMark on October 17, 2013 at 6:50 AM

They should, but, you know that the MSM will give all the “credit” to their “Lord and Savior, Barack Hussein Obama” mm mmm mmmm.

kingsjester on October 17, 2013 at 6:52 AM

There was no real fighting going on from Boehner. Resistance, yes.. real fighting.. no. And I think it’s been so long since conservatives have seen some real opposition they’ve settled.

Every day Boehner should have had a presser revealing all the waste in government. He could have gone on the offensive. Who knows what would have happened.

JellyToast on October 17, 2013 at 6:53 AM

I’m still reading a lot of TP dissing comments and begging to maintain the status quo for fear of the Republicans fracturing. We are losing every issue for five years now except gun control and we even had some waivering on that issue until the polls supported standing firm. Someone please tell me why the GOP deserves any trust that they can or will do anything.

This ain’t working. We’re being destroyed by the media because of politicians who fear the media.

A big reason I like Ted Cruz. Honey Badger don’t give a shite what the media thinks.

smoothsailing on October 17, 2013 at 6:59 AM

The GOP held almost *all* the cards on this issue.

And they CAPITULATED.

“Immigration”
(read: citzenship and Democrat Party registration for illegals)?!
They already have Vichy Members who actively suppport it.

GOP : 1854 – October 16, 2013.

Czar of Defenestration on October 17, 2013 at 7:01 AM

Beginning yesterday, Trolls who had all but disappeared since the election, re-appeared to insist that it was the Tea Party REpublicans and Conservatives who were wrong-headed about the capitulation of the Vichy Republicans.
To them, I repeat what Gen. McAuliffe wrote to the German Commander at the Battle of Bastogne:

NUTS!

kingsjester on October 17, 2013 at 7:04 AM

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 6:09 AM

i’m too disgusted this morning.
agree with you on the sunday shows. dancing on the graves of republicans. no mention of ocare.
mcshame telling us he was right all along.

renalin on October 17, 2013 at 7:06 AM

I want to see McConnell and Graham beaten in primaries.

How are those races looking?

bluegill on October 17, 2013 at 7:09 AM

Representative Aaron Schock of Illinois said the lesson of the episode was that Boehner should cut out the far-right flank and work with centrist Democrats.

from drudges halloween pumpkin headline.

renalin on October 17, 2013 at 7:11 AM

Instead, after Speaker John Boehner told Republicans they had “fought the good fight,” they all rose up to offer a standing ovation. “It was one of the easiest meetings we’ve ever had,” says Representative Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina…

Boehner is a tool, I’m disgusted they are treating him as some kind of hero. The surrender weasels did not fight the good fight, they all worked to undermine the work being done by Cruz/Lee. And yet they all voted against the bill yesterday to protect their “conservative” voting scorecards.

Remember this. Thanks to Congress, every man, woman, and child in America is now $123,000 more in debt than they were yesterday. Ted Cruz was one of the few talking about fiscal responsibility. This should be the message we all keep repeating. Make every troll that shows up to defend the debts.

Again, thanks to Congress your debt just went up $123,000. But, of course, you don’t have to pay. Your kids and your grandkids economic opportunity is paying the bill.

Happy Nomad on October 17, 2013 at 7:16 AM

The GOP held almost *all* the cards on this issue.

And they CAPITULATED.

Czar of Defenestration on October 17, 2013 at 7:01 AM

Not according to the surrender weasels here at HA. This is what living to fight another day looks. But is sure doesn’t feel that way to me.

Up next, HA goes all out for amnesty! Another hill too high to wage war over.

Happy Nomad on October 17, 2013 at 7:17 AM

This ain’t working. We’re being destroyed by the media because of politicians who fear the media.

A big reason I like Ted Cruz. Honey Badger don’t give a shite what the media thinks.

smoothsailing on October 17, 2013 at 6:59 AM

THIS right here…

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 7:29 AM

renalin on October 17, 2013 at 7:06 AM

yup the maverick and peter king full ginsberg….

blech

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 7:30 AM

I’m hardly a member of the Otto von Bismarck fan club, but I always liked his line about politics being the “art of the possible.” I’m open to any serious criticism of the GOP for failing to do the possible. But it’s a hallmark of populist passion to condemn men for failing to do the impossible.

this is the last line from Jonah’s post. I don’t even know what this means…and i’m a Jonah fan.
the only people criticizing conservatives for failing to do the impossible are those like McCain…always at the ready with a stab in the back to anyone that disagrees with him.
Perhaps we should not use the term RINO…maybe it just confuses people. What I don’t like is cronyism. State run capitalism is a big threat to this country. Central planning naturally leads to 1. Graft and 2. malinvestment
these are the big threats. I think Norquist is a crony. And, honestly I have become a little suspicious that the cronies don’t like taxes too much. But wait..the cronies leech off this country…time to pay up guys.
nothing is more disgusting that a crony like Buffett who cheats the government out of 30B so he can live in immortality.
ok, so that sounds a little like ows. A new party could maybe wrap around the true populism. Barry and WS has played us like suckers…everyone knows that.
r keller on October 16, 2013 at 11:44 PM

I don’t think Jonah misses the point, he just chooses not to acknowledge the other way of thinking. Doing the impossible wasn’t necessarily the conservative goal. But making the Dems work for it, for once, making them get dirt on their hands, exposing Obama and Reid by their actions(refusing to negotiate, spitefully closing parks…etc) was worth doing. Democrats don’t have to negotiate. They know they can just sit tight, because Republicans will cave sooner than later.

Dongemaharu on October 17, 2013 at 7:34 AM

Raise Your Weapon

justltl on October 17, 2013 at 7:37 AM

kingsjester on October 17, 2013 at 6:39 AM

…great…I am no longer labeling myself a Republican!

KOOLAID2 on October 17, 2013 at 7:47 AM

If the “missing white voted” had voted, we would have won the senate and presidency. And Obamacare would very likely be in process of being repealed now, even if the cost would have been a Romneyite replacement.

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 4:58 AM

Representative Aaron Schock of Illinois said the lesson of the episode was that Boehner should cut out the far-right flank and work with centrist Democrats.

renalin on October 17, 2013 at 7:11 AM

This is what the establishment thinks of your idea, Joe. You’re dreaming if you think the GOP stands for anything and you’re especially dreaming if you think Romney would have turned back ANYTHING.

It isn’t one man who stands in the way of rectifying things and it isn’t the missing white vote either; it’s the entire establishment GOP. They gave Boehner a standing ovation, for crying out loud.

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 7:48 AM

yup the maverick and peter king full ginsberg….

blech

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 7:30 AM

…I’m ready…to hurl chunks!

KOOLAID2 on October 17, 2013 at 7:49 AM

Remember this. Thanks to Congress, every man, woman, and child in America is now $123,000 more in debt than they were yesterday. Ted Cruz was one of the few talking about fiscal responsibility. This should be the message we all keep repeating. Make every troll that shows up to defend the debts.

Again, thanks to Congress your debt just went up $123,000. But, of course, you don’t have to pay. Your kids and your grandkids economic opportunity is paying the bill.

Happy Nomad on October 17, 2013 at 7:16 AM

THIS!!!

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 7:52 AM

KOOLAID2 on October 17, 2013 at 7:49 AM

yup…can you see them doing their victory lap

cmsinaz on October 17, 2013 at 7:52 AM

So, basically this:

1) A stand was taken on the CR/debt ceiling that had absolutely no chance of succeeding given the disposition of the Senate and the White House
2) Many pointed out this had no chance of succeeding
3) Everything has now turned out Exactly as anticipated, no significant changes to Obamacare and a two-week-plus shutdown that hurt/divided Republicans
4) Instead of recognizing that their recommended tactic has been utterly refuted by events, FreedomWorks et al are saying it all would have worked were it not for RINOs and sellouts.

I used to think that one thing that distinguished conservatives from the Paul Krugmans of the world was that we didn’t succumb to self-delusion — fantasies that everything I want would come to pass if only my own brilliant recommendations were followed to the letter. But this episode is making me re-think that; if FreedomWorks et al can’t even at this point recognize that this was sheer folly. . . well, look, there is a lot of BS-ing in politics, but when you’re fooling yourself, you’re in real trouble.

Chuckles3 on October 17, 2013 at 7:52 AM

So, basically this:

1) A stand was taken on the CR/debt ceiling that had absolutely no chance of succeeding given the disposition of the Senate and the White House
2) Many pointed out this had no chance of succeeding

well, look, there is a lot of BS-ing in politics, but when you’re fooling yourself, you’re in real trouble.

Chuckles3 on October 17, 2013 at 7:52 AM

You’re missing the point here, aren’t you, Chuckles?

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 7:55 AM

The do nothing crowd rules the GOPe. It’s as simple as that. Whigs.

Bmore on October 17, 2013 at 7:58 AM

But this episode is making me re-think that; if FreedomWorks et al can’t even at this point recognize that this was sheer folly.

Chuckles3 on October 17, 2013 at 7:52 AM

There’s a big difference between “will not succeed” and “sheer folly”. Sometimes you have to stand for what you stand for even if you know you’re going to lose.

Tell me what your plan for turning things around is, Chuckles.

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 7:59 AM

“We all agree Obamacare is an abomination. We all agree taxes are too high. We all agree spending is too high. We all agree Washington is getting in the way of job growth. We all agree we have a real debt crisis that will cripple future generations. We all agree on these fundamental conservative principles. … We must not confuse tactics with principles. Representative Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina

Left unspoken was what he intends to do about it.

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 8:01 AM

How about 2.3 BILLION pork project that McConnell got out of this deal.

And the cutting of congress’ b-alls on future increase of the debt ceiling.

This is the kind of S-hit that gets me f’n pissed about our elected officials.

With that, there is one thing out of this whole debacle that really makes me respect the tea party (tortilla) caucus: big business don’t own them! Big labor don’t own them. They do exactly what they were elected for. Doesn’t matter if I agree on every point, but I think it’s remarkable that they could tell WS to F off. Big kudos for that.

McConnell practicing crony capitalism even at that moment….

Can.I.be.in.the.middle on October 17, 2013 at 8:03 AM

They gave Boehner a standing ovation, for crying out loud.

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 7:48 AM

Boehner needs to be kicked out of leadership.
Mayb tehen some healing can begin.

And yes, Romney was horrible, despicable, and he may very well have left Obamacare mostly intact. But the other candidates wouldn’t have. Like Perry. Santorum. Bachman. Cain. Newt, probably. We certainly know how to pick ‘em.

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 8:04 AM

Boehner needs to be kicked out of leadership.

anotherJoe on October 17, 2013 at 8:04 AM

The only way that’s going to happen is if the mentality in the GOP changes and when those who are trying to effect that change are undermined by the majority, it’s hard to see that happening anytime soon.

Cruz was right when he said this needs a “grassroots” effort. And staying with the GOP where my vote is simply disregarded is simply not an effective strategy for change IMO.

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 8:10 AM

Personally, I doubt if the establishment GOP is really all that concerned about losing their influence in the House or anywhere else for that matter. Watch not a few of them change Party status when that happens.

Cleombrotus on October 17, 2013 at 8:12 AM

I fell asleep – did it pass? The stars aren’t falling from the sky this morning so I’m assuming the “disaster” has been averted?

gophergirl on October 17, 2013 at 8:19 AM

Boehner’s secret poetry:

And the day came when the risk to blossom was more painful than the risk it took to remain tight in a bud.

Fallon on October 17, 2013 at 8:20 AM

I want to see McConnell and Graham beaten in primaries.

How are those races looking?

bluegill on October 17, 2013 at 7:09 AM

McConnell’s opponents in the primary are: Matt Bevin-an investment executive, Joshua Pike Mather-a metal artist, and Roger Thoney-an electrical engineer. Bevin looks like the best bet.

Graham’s opponents in the primary are: Lee Bright-a state senator and ex-member of the Spartanburg Co. School Board, Richard Cash-a pastor and pro-life activist, and Nancy Mace a businesswoman and author. After just a quick glance through them, Bright sounds pretty good.

topdawg on October 17, 2013 at 9:40 AM

McConnell’s opponents in the primary are: Matt Bevin-an investment executive, Joshua Pike Mather-a metal artist, and Roger Thoney-an electrical engineer. Bevin looks like the best bet.

Graham’s opponents in the primary are: Lee Bright-a state senator and ex-member of the Spartanburg Co. School Board, Richard Cash-a pastor and pro-life activist, and Nancy Mace a businesswoman and author. After just a quick glance through them, Bright sounds pretty good.

topdawg on October 17, 2013 at 9:40 AM

So, McConnell and Graham each have three primary opponents? That’s too many… you split the vote too much, and the incumbent will likely win.

In my opinion, we need a way to “pre-primary” the three challengers, and pick the best one to go head-to-head with the incumbent in the regular primary.

How to make that happen? I don’t know yet.

ITguy on October 17, 2013 at 5:25 PM

When I think about how disconnected and corrupt the republican establishment is, I want to PUKE!

csdeven on October 17, 2013 at 6:22 PM

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