House GOP drops ObamaCare’s medical-device tax from new bill, final cave looming

posted at 4:01 pm on October 15, 2013 by Allahpundit

The most pitiful part of what’s happening right now isn’t the cave itself, which was predictable since day one of the quixotic “defund” effort, but the fact that they’re going to drag it out another day or two to the bitter end purely for theatrical purposes. There’s a 99 percent chance that Reid will reject whatever emerges tonight from the House, leaving Boehner to float a clean debt-ceiling hike tomorrow and let Pelosi and the Democrats bail him out, but in order to marginally reduce the upset among grassroots conservatives, he’s going to push this to the last possible moment. That means passing — hopefully — one more House bill to show that he really did try to get something in return for raising the debt limit, even though what he and House Republicans are now asking for barely qualifies as “something.”

Now that the medical-device tax is out, the already weak House bill has even fewer ObamaCare-related demands in it than it did this morning. And the punchline is, it’s been pulled not as a concession to Obama but because House conservatives regard it as a giveaway to business lobbyists. As James Antle put it, “So the only easily gettable Obamacare concession is out because Rs can’t sell it as Obamacare concession.”

Conservatives complained today that delaying the [medical-device] tax would be “crony capitalism” and they can’t sell it to the Republican base as a viable Republican win.

But that swift change hasn’t stalled the GOP’s push for a Tuesday vote. “The leaders are giving us one more chance to get something passed out of the House before the Senate does its thing,” says a veteran House Republican. “I think we’ll get it through, at least that’s my sense of things now. We want to do something that marks our position, so we don’t end up swallowing whatever terrible bait the Senate casts our way. Now, I know, and the majority of us know, that this is futile. But believe me, even getting to 218 on this plan will be an achievement.”…

House insiders say Boehner’s fear is that conservative activists and powerful conservative groups start to align against the bill and rattle its fragile coalition. If that happens, and the bill’s support falls apart, a simple, six-week debt-ceiling extension is still in the leadership’s back pocket, but there’s no plan to bring that up anytime soon. More likely, should things fizzle on the whip front, is that another conference meeting is called and the House GOP “gets real,” as one Boehner ally puts it, about “what’s possible within divided government, and whether Republicans are willing to back anything at all.”

Translation: The leadership’s going to make one last stand tonight to show conservative voters that they really fought on this, even though what they’re now fighting for is worthless to everyone, and then inform House conservatives tomorrow that they have no choice but to pass some sort of clean debt-ceiling hike with Democratic help. That’s because “what’s possible within divided government” was painfully apparent two weeks ago, but if Boehner had caved then instead of now, he would have been accused of not “trying.” So he went through the motions of trying, up to and including a shutdown, and now it’s time to do the responsible thing and not risk a new recession with a technical default. Meanwhile, the Senate isn’t doing anything right now except waiting to see if Boehner can get anything passed through the House with Republican votes. If he can’t, then Reid will might well end up demanding that even the token concessions to the GOP in his bill with McConnell be dropped. After all, it’ll be Democrats who are now the main actors in passing something in the lower chamber, not Republicans.

Update: Look it at this way: Repealing the medical-device tax was always going to be a lame “concession.” Why bother?

Update: Moderate GOPer Devin Nunes tells CNN there’s a new House Republican bill in the works — an almost clean debt-ceiling hike until early February and a bill to fund the government until December 15, setting up an exciting second shutdown just before Christmas. (In theory. In practice, Boehner won’t want to re-live this nightmare.) I say “almost clean” because the one concession Nunes mentioned for raising the ceiling is passing the Vitter amendment denying subsidies to Congress and staff. Reid won’t like that, but whether he’s prepared to force a default over making sure his aides get taxpayer money for their health care is a separate question.

Nunes, by the way, may have passed Peter King today for the title of leader of RINO America:

Bash brought up comments Nunes made the day before the shutdown, calling his Republican colleagues gung-ho on Obamacare “lemmings with suicide vests.” Nunes told Bash he doesn’t consider these people conservative because “to be a conservative you have to know how to count” and they can’t take on this “lunacy” because “you have to be here to actually conserve something” in the future.

Update: Yep, the big cave comes tomorrow.

The Vitter thing is just a tiny fig leaf to placate populists. They’re going to stick it to Congress (or, more specifically, congressional staffers) in lieu of achieving any concessions on ObamaCare.

 

Update from Duane Patterson: The big question, with the big cave coming by 9:30pm Eastern, is why the House is setting itself up to cave three times in four months? If the decision has been made to offer the clean C.R. and clean debt ceiling hike, why not pass one that gets through 2014 so that at least the sequester cuts are locked in? Right now, the C.R. would be extended only to December 15th, leaving a month before the spending levels are locked in and implemented for next year. Harry Reid has already signaled that the only clean C.R. he’d accept would be before January 15th, because he believes he can make the Republicans cave on the sequester cuts, too.  Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell also is believed to have wanted to extend the C.R. out a year.  So what happened?

There are several House Republicans who are values or religious liberty Congressmen, who are appalled that beginning on January 1st, the Sisters of the Poor and other religious groups are going to essentially have to shut down because of Obamacare’s requirement that they provide insurance that includes abortifacients, birth control and other abortion coverage. They will  simply shutter rather than comply, and so this bloc has successfully pitched the idea of a December 15th C.R., hoping, literally praying, that Obama will see the error of his ways and negotiate by then.

Here’s the problem with that. Let’s say the President hardens his heart and says no. This same voting bloc, along with all of the other members of the House, have no stomach to shut the government down again a week before Christmas, so they will have to cave then, too.

Then you have the debt ceiling coming back around in February, which makes one wonder what leverage the Republicans will have then that they don’t have now. So in short, we’re setting ourselves up to cave three times for the price of one.

The only thumb in the eye, and it’s quite simply just that, is the Vitter Amendment, something Team Reid hates with a passion. The House leadership has included it into their ‘final offer’ as a one finger salute to the Senate Majority Leader, and there is a rumor going around that after the vote tonight, Boehner is sending the House home, thinking they can jam the Senate. But since I’m here updating Allah’s post, I might as well channel Allah and ponder what the headlines will be once the House does pass this and fly home, and Reid simply takes the Vitter Amendment out and passes the clean C.R. and debt ceiling again, and sends it to a vacant House as the debt ceiling clock hits Doomsday O’Clock?

I’m sure there is good news in here somewhere. It just might take an awfully long time to find it.

 

Update From Duane Patterson: And just as quickly as I wrote this above, the deal is off. The House GOP whipped their members earlier in the afternoon, saying if any of you have a problem with this deal, let us know now. Apparently, enough of them did, because as of 5:50pm Eastern, the House Rules Committee has cancelled the consideration of the package for tonight and no votes are scheduled. They don’t have the votes, and we’re right back to square one.

Almost simultaneously, the White House signaled the President would veto any language that included the Vitter amendment, which would make Congressional and Administration staffers abide by Obamacare just the same as you and I do. I’m a little torn here. Part of me is glad we’re not going along with this deal tonight, for the reasons I stated above. But part of me would love to have the opportunity to make the case that Obama indicated that Harry Reid’s and his own staffers’ exemption from the law is worth more than the country’s creditworthiness. That would have been fun. Alas.


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Where have you been, riding V-ger out of the solar system, we hate ALL of it, the Congressional waiver thingie is simply tapping into the naturally existing public abhorrence of politicians.

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 7:36 PM

Wow, what a clever turn of phrase. You are one of those “hip” conservatives, you watch Star Trek, we get it.

You hate all of it, we get that too. Unfortunately, the rest of the country doesn’t, unless they want single-payer, and you invented a fake issue to try to convince them otherwise.

Obamacare DIDN’T create an exception for Congress. Obama did.

And, no, do not repeal the Grassley Amendment.

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 7:43 PM

Wrong, even Grassley says his amendment didn’t preclude gov’t/employer support for Congress/staffer health care. Obamacare is not about the employer-based health care system that effects about 80% of the population, it is about everything else. The only large employer in the nation forced to push some or all of its employees onto the exchanges is Obamacare, thanks to Grassley. All Obama did was give them back what they, and any other employee of a large organization, already had, an employer contribution, same as you get at say, Koch Industries.

The entire controversy over Grassley/Vitter is fake, which is why the country isn’t buying it.

Mr. Arkadin on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

I really am surprised to see that a lot of folks missed the point that the last “clean” opportunity to get rid of Obiecare was the POTUS election of 2012..:(

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

So can someone explain how constantly increasing the debt ceiling does not eventually end in bankruptcy? Is that the fate both political parties have accepted?

neuquenguy on October 15, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Maybe I misread your intent there, but 35 hard right Conservatives in the Senate?

More like 3.5

LegendHasIt on October 15, 2013 at 7:52 PM

Even if we had 35, it wouldn’t matter. There aren’t any centrist Dems anymore. The Democrat party wants to remake American, period. JFK and Truman weep in their graves.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Was anything I said incorrect? If so point out what things specifically were. If not then the fact reality doesn’t fit your preferred narrative is your cross to bear.

alchemist19 on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Technically no, you provided the perfect recitation of the DNC talking points you were given.

But that doesn’t mean we should accept it as given truth any more than Scott v. Sandford should have been accepted as given law.

Face it, you’re a tool of the left. If you don’t already know that, you’ll be happier once you accept it.

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 7:57 PM

Heh, I’m not sure who the extra 1.5 are.

Cruz, Lee are of course the first two.
Some folks might consider Rand Paul as #3… I tend to think of him as a .5.

LegendHasIt on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Ok, Cruz, Lee =2, + .5 for Paul still leaves 1 to account for. I’ll add Jeff Sessions for that one:-)

We don’t have many.

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 8:23 PM

So can someone explain how constantly increasing the debt ceiling does not eventually end in bankruptcy? Is that the fate both political parties have accepted?

neuquenguy on October 15, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Please look at Greece. That is our future given the current trajectory.

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 8:24 PM

I can’t figure out why, when Boehner passes a bill that he believes is bi-partisan and good for the country he doesn’t adjourn the House and send it on to the Senate. Let the Senate and Obama keep playing their games because then it will be they who refuse to compromise and they who shut down the government. Good Lord John, get some cajones and lead. You know Obama won’t.

When you’re negotiating with someone, whose only goal is to completely destroy you , you have to fight the good fight, not try to fight and then surrender. Boehner needs to lead like he’s the Speaker of the House, the 2nd in line to the Presidency, a force to be dealt with. Leading means putting together a bill that will pass the House. Then, once it’s passed, send it to the Senate. Let Reid scream how he can’t get it through the Senate, hell let the Senate Republicans do the right thing for a change and tell Reid he will lose all of their support if he doesn’t change his tune. Instead, the Senate Republicans keep on throwing the House Republicans under the bus.

LEADERSHIP, where is it?

bflat879 on October 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Well, it looks like bayam can’t answer.
 
Mr. Arkadin, would you mind fielding it for us?
 
Obamacare was passed to solve the free rider problem:
 

“So that’s why the individual mandate’s important,” Obama explained in a speech on Aug. 15, 2011.
 
“Because the basic theory is, look, everybody here at some point or another is going to need medical care, and you can’t be a free-rider on everybody else,” said Obama.

 
The tax/fine on a person making $43K who doesn’t want or can’t afford insurance will only equal about $860 (vs. thousands in premiums and deductibles), and $860 will barely cover any actual medical procedure.
 
Hospitals will still be required by law to provide care regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay.
 
Can you explain how Obamacare does anything to change the free rider problem?
 
Give us specifics, please.

rogerb on October 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

I really am surprised to see that a lot of folks missed the point that the last “clean” opportunity to get rid of Obiecare was the POTUS election of 2012..:(

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

We had an election of Congress too. Even if Romney had been elected, he still would be dealing with the current Congress.

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Technically no, you provided the perfect recitation of the DNC talking points you were given.

I’ll ignore the laughable and baseless assertion that I was given DNC talking points and focus instead on the “Technically no” you opened with. You’re being critical of me for reciting the plain truth. I didn’t say you had to be happy about the truth (I’m certainly not) but the fact you and I don’t like it doesn’t change the fact it’s true.

But that doesn’t mean we should accept it as given truth any more than Scott v. Sandford should have been accepted as given law.

There’s just a bit of reductio ad absurdum going on here.

Face it, you’re a tool of the left. If you don’t already know that, you’ll be happier once you accept it.

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

The ability to recognize a situation, even an unpleasant one, does not make a person a tool of the left. It’s possible to understand something without cheering for it. The inability to deal with an unpleasant truth does make someone divorced from reality though. We won’t be able to start to get out of this mess for real if we can’t even be honest with ourselves.

alchemist19 on October 15, 2013 at 8:39 PM

LEADERSHIP, where is it?

bflat879 on October 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Boehner’s problem as I see it is that he’s trying to pass something that Reid will pass and that Obama will sign.

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 8:31 PM

If GOP had 2 of the 3 (House and POTUS) the Dems would be in the same spot the GOP finds itself now..:)

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

That’s because “what’s possible within divided government” was painfully apparent two weeks ago, but if Boehner had caved then instead of now, he would have been accused of not “trying.” So he went through the motions of trying, up to and including a shutdown, and now it’s time to do the responsible thing and not risk a new recession with a technical default

There is no such thing as a technical default

You refuse to make the interest payment on the debt, or you pay it.

The interest payment on the debt is chump change for Obama. He already announced the printing press Queen would continue to roll out vapor dollars now at a rate of 85 billion a month, treasuries bought from ourselves and worthless mortgage backed securities to cover his banker buddies. Current monthly interest on the debt under 20 billion

Of course we are taking in way way more than 20 billion monthly in real tax revenue. The argument the money is required by law to go to Sesame Street instead of preventing default is a joke. Obama disregards the law routinely.

The vapor money is not merely to ‘cover shortfall’. It is to deflate the interest rates, to keep the market up, for his buddies, and for the next election. As long as he is counterfeiting, he might as well spill some of the stolen future of America on the miniscule debt service since in the not so long run, this stolen vapor money will so raise the debt service he will be unable to cover his tracks by counterfeiting.

As a longtime Detroiter, I can vouch Obama is running the US into the ground the same way the jokers ran Detroit under, right down to the lavish lifestyle , letting infrastructure rot, despising the past, mortgaging the future, ignoring the law, taking care of cronies, and encouraging division. Barack Coleman Young Kwame Obama. No difference.

Palin is correct. If Obama calls a default, it is because he refuses to pay up.

entagor on October 15, 2013 at 8:52 PM

No, it’s not. Forcing members to purchase health insurance from the exchanges without allowing it to be paid for is most certainly not fake.

blink on October 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Thank you for finally admitting the obvious – that it is Republicans who have created this exception for Congress and its staffers, to punish them for foisting Obamacare on the public.

Mr. Arkadin on October 15, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Republicans are done. Noting really more to say about that party.

Panther on October 15, 2013 at 8:58 PM

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 8:31 PM

If GOP had 2 of the 3 (House and POTUS) the Dems would be in the same spot the GOP finds itself now..:)

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Now you stop trying to backtrack on your original argument, LOL

Seriously, I doubt your scenario. The Dems wouldn’t have voted with the R’s as the R’s vote with the Dems:-)

The R’s don’t stick together, that’s why they lose. ( The GOPe of course:-)

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 8:59 PM

The entire controversy over Grassley/Vitter is fake, which is why the country isn’t buying it.

Mr. Arkadin on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Poll: 94% Oppose Special Treatment for Congress on ObamaCare

Graham Joins Vitter in Fight over Hill’s Carve-Out

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 9:04 PM

Germany 1929, the Nazi Party is diminishing, prosperity is increasing. Although the Weimar Republic is paying back massive reparations to France and Germany, those countries are in debt up to their eyeballs to Wall Street bankers who loaned them the money to fight the war. Wall Street is in turn loaning the money back to Germany fueling the boom.

Wall Street collapses and calls in the loans in Germany. The German economy crashes, and the Nazis are resurgent. When the Nazis take power they repudiate the Versailles Treaty and start issuing government contracts. Furthermore, they guarantee bank loans to businesses, causing the money to start circulating again. The German economy boomed while ours still stagnated.

The downside is that they will need a war to create the markets they need to keep the scheme going, and the war eventually went very badly.

We’re borrowing money hand over fist and don’t even have a robust economy to show for it. We don’t have policies in place to grow the economy —on the contrary! On top of that we’re facing numerous small conflicts that waste our time and resources. All strategic goals seem to have been abandoned. We are leaderless and without a rational plan to succeed.

If key countries were to abandon our currency at this point we will be in such trouble that I don’t think most of us can even comprehend it.

claudius on October 15, 2013 at 9:08 PM

If GOP had 2 of the 3 (House and POTUS) the Dems would be in the same spot the GOP finds itself now..:)
Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

That’s funny. That’s how we stopped fanny Mae, SCHIP, NCLB and plugged the donut hole among others under bush. We even stopped mcvain-Feingold so SCOTUS wouldn’t have to step in. Oh wait… Even with the trifecta we were still caving to the donks. The donks were so between a rock and a hard place that Dubya never once had to use his veto pen, not even a threat.

Nope these incumbents are not worth reelection.

AH_C on October 15, 2013 at 9:11 PM

You’re failing to see the obvious.

It could have worked if conservatives had maintained their resolve. People claiming that something can’t work damages that resolve.

Think about a bunch of troops holding a line. If they are all resolved to hold the line, then the line has a chance of being held. If some of them start claiming that retreats will inevitably occur, then other troopers start to lose their confidence that they will be supported.

THIS is reality.

blink on October 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

The problem is your metaphor isn’t the most appropriate to describe the situation. If you’re talking about troops fighting in a war it isn’t necessarily about numbers but when it’s about counting votes in a representative republic then numbers are the only thing that matters. Everyone’s vote counts the same no matter how strong or weak their resolve is and the Democrats have more votes than we do.

alchemist19 on October 15, 2013 at 9:13 PM

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 8:59 PM

No backtrack at all..If Romney had won..We would have House and a POTUS who wanted to get rid of it..Huge difference..:)

PS..Plus No GOP person in Congress voted for Obiecare..:)

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM

I seems as if you’re trying not to understand. If you’re holding a line, then you are only doing so because you trust that your fellow troopers will hold the line, too. If they aren’t going to hold the line, they you are less likely to.It works with votes, too. If you think that your fellow R’s are going to abandon the cause with their votes, then you are more likely to abandon the cause, too.People like you were encouraging abandonment. That was damaging to the cause.
blink on October 15, 2013 at 9:22 PM

Exactly. What we have here are CINOs. They talk the talk but quail before the fight.

AH_C on October 15, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Nope these incumbents are not worth reelection.

AH_C on October 15, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Good luck with that..:)

PS..That position would have been a heck of a lot better than where we find ourselves now..:)

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 9:34 PM

No, Obamacare was forced on Congress when it was passed.

blink on October 15, 2013 at 9:15 PM

By a Republican sponsored amendment, written by a Republican who later admitted that he never intended to see the employer subsidy eliminated.

Yawn.

Mr. Arkadin on October 15, 2013 at 9:45 PM

blink on October 15, 2013 at 9:22 PM

What I’m for is picking our battles intelligently. There was never a realistic chance of knocking down Obamacare with the shutdown strategy because, as I pointed out earlier, the exchanges, the subsidies and the Medicaid expansion are all fully funded as part of mandatory spending so it would require another act of Congress to defund them. No amount of conservative resolve would change that hard, cold, unpleasant reality. The problem with “holding the line” against Obamacare is there was never any line to hold in the first place unless our goal was to shut down the government for its own sake and used the defunding of Obamacare as cover.

Let me ask it like this. If on October 1st when the shutdown started we had replaced all 232 GOP House members with clones of Jim DeMint then what would be different right now?

alchemist19 on October 15, 2013 at 10:06 PM

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 8:59 PM

No backtrack at all..If Romney had won..We would have House and a POTUS who wanted to get rid of it..Huge difference..:)

PS..Plus No GOP person in Congress voted for Obiecare..:)

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM

I’m not convinced that Romney would have even tried to repeal it. He may have tweaked it a bit, but even if he did try to repeal it.
You still have Reid!!

I know no GOP voted for it in 2009, I worked all summer against it.
However, that was no virtue on their part. They knew the Dems had the majority & didn’t need one vote from them.

However, thanks to Senator Cruz when those RINOS had a chance to put their money where their mouth was, they voted with REID!!

Thank you Senator Cruz!!

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 10:24 PM

It’s fine for you to claim that it would be better to form a line in a different battle.

But don’t try claiming that nay-saying doesn’t have an effect on the integrity of a line. You’re dead wrong for making such a claim.

It appears that one man’s nay-saying is another’s rational observation that a certain scenario has no possibility of victory.

YOU.ARE.DEAD.WRONG.

There was most certainly a realistic chance – IF naysayers like you hadn’t been continuously claiming that it wasn’t realistic.

No there wasn’t. You are ignoring reality and you prove that in your next line.

Underdogs pull off upsets all the time. Often their success is due to resolve and confidence. If a team is surrounded by people telling them that they have no chance and constantly trying to make people give up, then their chances plunge.

Another bad metaphor. You’ve moved from war to sports but the problem is still the same. Victory in war doesn’t necessarily go to the person with the most soldiers, and games aren’t always won by the most talented players, but when it comes to passing legislation is a representative republic the first, last and only thing that matters is whether or not you have a majority of the votes. The GOP only has that in the House, and that alone is not enough to make a bill become law.

Face it. People like you plunged the changes of success.

That would have been like Herb Brooks (circa Feb 1980) telling the media yeah, I told my players that they never had a chance to beat the Soviet hockey team – and I was right!

blink on October 15, 2013 at 10:24 PM

Because that was about hockey and votes is about math. If the numbers are against you when it comes to votes you lose every time.

I’ll repeat and even expand on my previous question for you. If we had 232 clones of Jim DeMint in the House and 45 clones of DeMint in the Senate with Ted Cruz as minority leader then what would be different? What trick or tactic could they have employed in the last two weeks that Boehner and McConnell didn’t do that would have stopped the exchanges, Medicaid expansion or subsidies?

alchemist19 on October 15, 2013 at 10:39 PM

However, thanks to Senator Cruz when those RINOS had a chance to put their money where their mouth was, they voted with REID!!

Thank you Senator Cruz!!

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 10:24 PM

Sorry you feel that way..:)

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 11:01 PM

bluefox on October 15, 2013 at 10:24 PM

Sorry you feel that way..:)

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 11:01 PM

I admire Cruz’s zeal..:)

Dire Straits on October 15, 2013 at 11:02 PM

Raise the debt ceiling for one day. And just keep raising it one day at a time. Leave the government shut down.

besser tot als rot on October 15, 2013 at 4:29 PM

Keep this government shutdown and get Obama to shut down things that aren’t merely parks and memorials (GULP!) and maybe, just maybe, we’ll save upwards of 1 trillion dollars Obama would otherwise squander.

The Nerve on October 15, 2013 at 11:40 PM

I agree that there can be a fine line, but in this case, you were nay-saying. You think it was rational observation because Obama and Reid seemed to be holding firm. But Obama and Reid were only holding firm because of all the nay-saying that they were hearing.

Obama and Reid didn’t do anything because they didn’t have to. Obamacare was going to be the law of the land so long as they took no action so they took no action.

Yes, there was.

Seriously, it doesn’t make sense to automatically assume that they could hold out longer than the Rs.

It doesn’t matter how long the Rs held out, Obamacare was already here. That’s why Obama did nothing.

You can get the other side to defect. You can get the other side to cave. You can get the other side to surrender. That’s difficult to do when your own team is constantly being told by naysayers that they’re the ones that need to surrender and cave.

There was no reason to cave.

Here, I think, is the root of our disagreement. We wouldn’t just need to get a few of the Democrats to cave, we would need a lot of them to and that’s not realistic.

First off I think (hope?) we can agree that Obama would never ever sign anything that undoes Obamacare. Obama never has to face the voters again so his popularity doesn’t matter to him anymore; his primary focus is his legacy. His biggest (and with the GOP holding the House, his likely only) domestic achievement is Obamacare. That’s all he has to show for his time in office. He would never agree to undo it. If that’s the case we would need a 2/3 majority in the Senate to override his veto. You’re talking about peeling off a third the Democrats to do that, most of whom voted for it the first time. It wasn’t ever going to happen.

Then you maintain the shutdown. Then you refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Why not?

Then the democrats would know that they need to cave in order to raise the debt ceiling and end the shutdown.

This isn’t rocket science. Why would you even ask such a simple question?

blink on October 15, 2013 at 11:05 PM

Because we still have Obamacare even with the shutdown, and the shutdown tactic isn’t popular. Obama’s free to take all the blame for the Democrats himself because he never has to face the voters again while the GOP is employing a convoluted strategy that doesn’t even directly accomplish its stated goal, and it has to explain that to the voters in a year.

alchemist19 on October 15, 2013 at 11:44 PM

This amendment eliminates Obama’s ability to provide the work-around that forced Congress to use Obamacare.

blink on October 15, 2013 at 10:17 PM

Now you are just flat out wrong. The Obama administration never tried to pull Congress and its staff out of the exchanges; they only sought to let the federal government, as the employer, subsidize the cost, as they had subsidized previous, non-exchange policies. The Vitter Amendment forbids the subsidy, and extends the Obamacare requirement to the executive branch.

No Exemption for Washington from Obamacare Act – Amends the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) to extend the requirement for participation in the American Health Benefit Exchange (a state health insurance exchange created by PPACA) to the President, Vice-President, executive branch political appointees, and employees of congressional committees and leadership offices of Congress (currently, this requirement applies to Members of Congress and their staff). Prohibits any government contribution to or subsidy for the health insurance coverage of such officials and employees.

Are you lying, or just ignorant?

Mr. Arkadin on October 15, 2013 at 11:47 PM

I’m sure tomorrow morning Ed will give us the same old recycled spiel about how they had no other choice and this was the absolute best outcome they could manage under the circumstances.

Cylor on October 16, 2013 at 12:33 AM

I’m sure tomorrow morning Ed will give us the same old recycled spiel about how they had no other choice and this was the absolute best outcome they could manage under the circumstances.

Cylor on October 16, 2013 at 12:33 AM

Yes. Same thing next week; same time, same place. Oh yeah, and OBAMA – GRRRR!

The Nerve on October 16, 2013 at 1:48 AM

If Boehner fails, which seems likely, the outcome should be that he is replaced.
The “go-along to get-along” Republicans need to “get along home”.

Whoever is leading the House needs to show that they don’t need a deal with the Senate or the President, they need a deal with them!

The government is not shut down and the country is not going to default.

virgo on October 16, 2013 at 2:44 AM

bayam, I need your input on something, please.

 

“So that’s why the individual mandate’s important,” Obama explained in a speech on Aug. 15, 2011.
 
“Because the basic theory is, look, everybody here at some point or another is going to need medical care, and you can’t be a free-rider on everybody else,” said Obama. “You can’t not have health insurance, then go to the emergency room, and each of us, who’ve done the responsible thing and have health insurance, suddenly we now have to pay the premiums for you. That’s not fair. So, if you can afford it, you should get health insurance just like you get car insurance.”
 
http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=14952502&sid=77&cid=77

 
The tax/fine on a person making $43K who doesn’t want or can’t afford insurance will only equal about $860 (vs. thousands in premiums and deductibles), and $860 will barely cover any actual medical procedure.
 
Hospitals will still be required by law to provide care regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay.
 
Can you explain how Obamacare does anything to change the free rider problem?
 
Give us specifics, please.
 
rogerb on October 15, 2013 at 7:09 PM

 
bayam?

rogerb on October 16, 2013 at 6:46 AM

Well, it looks like bayam can’t answer.
 
Mr. Arkadin, would you mind fielding it for us?
 
Obamacare was passed to solve the free rider problem:

 

“So that’s why the individual mandate’s important,” Obama explained in a speech on Aug. 15, 2011.
 
“Because the basic theory is, look, everybody here at some point or another is going to need medical care, and you can’t be a free-rider on everybody else,” said Obama.

 
The tax/fine on a person making $43K who doesn’t want or can’t afford insurance will only equal about $860 (vs. thousands in premiums and deductibles), and $860 will barely cover any actual medical procedure.
 
Hospitals will still be required by law to provide care regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay.
 
Can you explain how Obamacare does anything to change the free rider problem?
 
Give us specifics, please.
 
rogerb on October 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

 
Mr. Arkadin?

rogerb on October 16, 2013 at 6:47 AM

Maybe Boehner’s wife better take a qick peek between John’s legs.Appears he may be missing something important!Pathetic drunk!

redware on October 16, 2013 at 9:38 AM

OPPOSITION TO OBAMACARE:

1. WAIVERS ARE UN-CONSTITUTIONAL
The 2,200+ waivers Obama has handed out are Un-Constitutional, #1 because only CONGRESS can amend a law once it is passed, and #2 because the Constitution does not allow for specail treatment for a select few. Obama, a self-professed Constitutional Scholar, knows this and has held the nation hostage until the gutless GOP agree to abandon the Constitution (& their oath of office) & allow him to get away with his Un-Constitutional Waivers…and they have done just that.

2. CONGRESSIONAL / EXECUTIVE SPECIAL DEAL:
The GOP agreed to give Obama everything he wanted – full funding and waivers – as long as he agreed that EVERY Washington Politician (House & Senate AND Obama and his staff) participate in Obamacare AND PAY THEIR OWN PREMIUMS. Obama immediately rejected this plan. The American people WILL be FOTCED to participate, WILL be FORCED to pay up to 70% of the MILLIONAIRE Politicians’ Premiums, and Obama WILL NOT participate in his own Health Care System (because he KNOWS how badly it $ucks and that it will fail)! Once again the GOP SURRENDER.

3. MEDICAL DEVICE TAX:
Obama promised (among many other things) Obamacare would NOT contain any taxes. The USSC’s verdict (and e-write of the law) concluded the monetary penalty for not participating in Obamacare was only the FIRST Tax. The 2nd was a Medical Device Tax – a tax on every pace maker, cane, wheel chair, prosthetic, hearing aid, etc…which has forced many businesses to take their companies and jobs overseas. The GOP asked for this tax to be eliminated…then delayed 2 years…then delayed for 1 year…then conceded to accept (reportedly – again) NOTHING.

Obama has declared the GOP are blackmailing terrorists, but if you look at the dynamics of the situation you realize just the opposite is true. A ‘blackmailing terrorist’ is the one who gives demands and threatens harm if they are not met…that would be Obama. He even admitted to the nation that he was/is attempting to inflict as much pain on the American people as possible until they demand/beg the GOP to give him whatever he wants. Those who negotiate and continue to attempt to resolve the conflict are the ones BEING ‘blackmailed’.

So what was / are Obama’s demands?

1) Full Funding of the US Government through a clean ‘CR’ – no Budget. (None in 6 years, although required by law annually, and not since Reid took over in the Senate)

2) Full Funding of Obamacare

3) The GOP ABANDON / BETRAY their Oaths of Office / the Constitution by allowing Obama to keep his 2,200 Un-Constituional Waivers.

4) The American People MUST be FORCED to continue to pay up to 70% of the Obamacare Health Care Premiums for their Millionaire Politicians who com-pletely bent them over by forcing Obamacare into law against the majority will of the people WHILE telling them/us Americans do not have the RIGHT to know what was in the bill until they passed it into law.

5) The Debt Ceiling must be raised $1.1 TRILLION….which, according to Obama, doesn’t mean the US Govt intends to spend all of that.

** The definition of ‘INSANITY’ is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome each time. What Obama has done / is doing is holding the nation hostage until it/the GOP agrees to allow them to raise the debt ceiling by $1.1 Trillion so they can keep engaging in record-setting deficit spending. He fought the GOP & the American people so Liberals would not be forced to address the REAL core fiscal / economic problems that have resulted in us to the point where we have to raise the debt ceiling AGAIN because our out-of-control spending-addicted politicians refuse to ‘seek help/ a cure’ – they just want more money!

AND THE GOP WIL GIVE OBAMA EVERYTHING HE WANTS…

The reason why is simple:

The GOP actually want to save this nation from collapse and end the suffering Obama is inflicting….

While Obama, who promised to fundamentally change this country, is blackmailing us to abandon the Constitution and become some 3rd World Semi-Dictatorship…and he doesn’t mind if the Nation goes over the fiscal cliff and collapses. If that happens, he will just be completing his daddy’s work while making his tutor – Frank Marshall Davis – and his mentor – Jeremiah Wright – proud!

easyt65 on October 16, 2013 at 9:54 AM

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