Hannity: Maybe it’s time for a new conservative party

posted at 8:01 pm on October 15, 2013 by Allahpundit

Via the Daily Caller, maybe it’s time. Until recently, centrist GOPers would greet tea-party saber-rattling about going third party with a Vader-esque “nooooooooooo.” Lately, based on what I see on Twitter, the feeling seems to be more of a “hmmmmmmm.” If you believe that RINOs are no different from Democrats then there’s no reason to fear losing to Democrats repeatedly over the short- and medium-term due to a split right-wing vote. And if you believe that the tea party is destroying the Republican Party’s brand, amputating it now might be the only way to preserve the GOP as a rallying point for center-right voters. In theory, without very conservative voters in the party, some centrists who’ve been reluctantly voting Democratic lately due to fear/loathing of the right will decide it’s safe to come home to the newly RINO-esque GOP. Won’t be enough to stop Hillary, but then, that’s not the point. The whole point of the centrist/conservative brawling lately is that each side seems to see the other, not the Democrats, as the most immediate, threatening obstacle to good government in America. Hard to keep a movement together when it’s in a state like that.

So here’s conservative Sean Hannity saying maybe it’s time for a right-wing third party, and here’s centrist David Frum saying, “Yeah, maybe.”

Pragmatists want to change the GOP so that it can win elections and govern effectively. Tea party Republicans prefer to express their principles regardless of consequences, which is why the Pew survey in September found that 71% of them favored a government shutdown even though nearly 40% of them expected that shutdown to have a “major” impact on the economy…

Yet politics is a complicated business, and it’s not always true that a party is weakened by the departure of its most extreme supporters…

Right now, tea party extremism contaminates the whole Republican brand. It’s a very interesting question whether a tea party bolt from the GOP might not just liberate the party to slide back to the political center — and liberate Republicans from identification with the Sarah Palins and the Ted Cruzes who have done so much harm to their hopes over the past three election cycles.

It’s worth repeating over and over again. Add Todd Akin in Missouri and Richard Mourdock in Indiana, Sharron Angle in Nevada and Ken Buck in Colorado, Christine O’Donnell in Delaware and Joe Miller in Alaska — and you have half a dozen Senate races lost to the GOP by extremist nominations.

Simple math for both wings: If you think the RINOs/tea partiers are ultimately costing you more votes than they’re winning you, then you should consider accepting near-term losses to Democrats after a schism as the price of being able to rebrand and build a party platform that truly represents your constituency. For RINOs, that would mean mild spending cuts and very mild entitlement reform, if any; for tea partiers, it would mean more aggressive cuts and reforms. On social issues, RINOs would likely back gay marriage and amnesty; tea partiers would oppose both. You might even see foreign-policy delineations emerge, with RINOs sticking to Bush-esque hawkishness and tea partiers tilting a bit more towards the Paul “non-interventionist” position.

A key question: If it did happen, would that drag Democrats further to the center or further to the left? They’d have a chokehold on national elections with the right divided, which is precisely why some lefties would feel tempted to up their own demands of the Democratic leadership. “Do what we want,” they’d say, “or we’ll bolt like the tea partiers did and then your national advantage will be gone.” This is why, I think, centrists like Frum want to make sure there’s a RINO alternative to the tea party — if liberals did start muscling Democrats towards the left, a center-right outlet would be a natural safe harbor for centrist Democrats who are disaffected by their party’s leftward turn. On the other hand, if Democrats tacked towards the center to preserve their national chokehold over the right, that would mean (a) a somewhat more right-wing Democratic Party than we have now and (b) a lot of disaffected liberals, who might eye what the tea party did and start thinking about forming a third (or rather fourth) party of their own. In fact, one point overlooked by most people in the big Gallup poll of third-party fee-vah last week is that Democratic voters increasingly like the idea too:

ga

Imagine the electorate split in four — the Liberal Party with 10 percent of the vote, the Democrats with 40 percent, the GOP with 30 percent, and the Tea Party with 20. Imagine trying to blog that madness every two years during the midterm campaign. Two words, my friends: Traffic goldmine.


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Hannity/Money same/same.

He can start one, run it and own it.

Misdirection.
Stay on target, its the RINO’s and they are very afraid now.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on October 15, 2013 at 8:06 PM

Fight the good fight.

mjbrooks3 on October 15, 2013 at 8:06 PM

US system isn’t conducive to three or four parties. If the conservatives split off to a new party then the old GOP dies as did the Whigs. Short term that means 20 years of the left dominating. Long term it means another 50 years of the left dominating because we are no longer a representative government with any sort of individual liberty.

Gingotts on October 15, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Political parties don’t last forever…

d1carter on October 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

would be a natural safe harbor for centrist Democrats who are disaffected by their party’s leftward turn.

seriously, you believe in centrist democrats after Obamacare?

rob verdi on October 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Part of me wants to see that happen because of the massive amounts of fail that would ensue.

Just going by the senators who haven’t been blackballed by the High Inquisitors of the Church of Ted Cruz, the third party would have two, maybe three, sitting senators, and twenty to thirty House members. (Rand Paul has already said he’d never leave the party.) They’d be ceding the elections of every state bluer than Arkansas, and would have no money or party structure to even fight in the states they could win.

Let me ask the zealots (including Sean Hannity, who’s sounding more and more like he’s terrified of Glenn Beck’s ratings and is thus emulating him) one question: can True Conservatives win on their own, if every Republican to the left of Ted Cruz were jettisoned?

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

USIP like UKIP.

Ben Hur on October 15, 2013 at 8:10 PM

To be honest, smash the moderates in the existing party and wait for the event that smashes the elites.

rob verdi on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Who is going to be in charge of developing and administering the conservative litmus test? Both for our candidates and our party base?Think of all the fun during primaries as it is.

Don’t we already have an effective field laboratory in Britain and Europe with mutli-party elections and coalition governments? Frankly, I don’t see how they’ve been any more effective at either representing their constituents or governing than our two party system.

I’m not sure just rebranding and redefining the politicians we already have into smaller, more specific camps is going to effect the kind of change we’d most like to see… namely better representation and service from the politicians we elect.

thatsafactjack on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Democrats with 40 percent, the GOP with 30 percent, and the Tea Party with 20. Imagine trying to blog that madness every two years during the midterm campaign. Two words, my friends: Traffic goldmine.

Sounds like Europe

forest on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

No. Only people who want decades of Democratic dominance would want this.

wargamer6 on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

USIP like UKIP.

Ben Hur on October 15, 2013 at 8:10 PM

That’s great.

By the way, the UK Independence Party has existed for twenty years and has never won a single seat in the elected house of British Parliament. Live the dream!

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Hannity: Maybe it’s time for a new conservative party

…maybe he is right!

KOOLAID2 on October 15, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Maybe we should consider single-issue parties, as is done in some parliamentary governments. For instance, I will gladly lead the party dedicated to the prohibition of autoplaying video and audio.

Why is it always Hannity’s stuff that comes that way too?

Gingotts on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Right now, tea party extremism contaminates the whole Republican brand.

LOL. We “extremists” (who put the GOP in control of the House in the biggest sweep in over 70 years) put a damper on your treasonous instincts. We cramp your style of caving to every America-hating dem whim. We protest your insane, un-Constitutional desire to make every alien in the world an “undocumented American”.

It’s a very interesting question whether a tea party bolt from the GOP might not just liberate the party to slime back to the political center

Go slime back to whatever swamp you want. You’ll do it without my support. You are filth. Treasonous filth. And stupid, too.

Frankly, a political divorce isn’t enough. We need a national divorce. There is no American Constitutional Republic remaining and the only way to have one exist again is to start it from scratch. I have no desire to be a subject in the American Socialist Superstate. It smells like A.S.S.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

A party full of halfwits, crackpots, religious zealots and neo-confederates. I’m sure it will be a smashing success. Who will be their presidential candidate? Donald Trump? Lew Rockwell? Christine O’Donnell?

Mark1971 on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Democrats with 40 percent, the GOP with 30 percent, and the Tea Party with 20. Imagine trying to blog that madness

Seriously though, I think the Republican Party would disappear in that scenario in favor of a Libertarian party and a Socon party, along with a progressive kook party and an idiocracy handout party.

forest on October 15, 2013 at 8:15 PM

#YOLO

ronval912 on October 15, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Our system doesn’t really accomodate a third party. One party essentially decimates another. Otherwise, we’d still be voting for Whig and Federalist candidates.

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 8:15 PM

We have a one party government now…

d1carter on October 15, 2013 at 8:16 PM

Centrist democrat? The Blue Dogs have gone from 58 members four years ago to 12 today. Dems are now the party of uber-liberal hatred.

crash72 on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Democrats with 40 percent, the GOP with 30 percent, and the Tea Party with 20. Imagine trying to blog that madness every two years during the midterm campaign. Two words, my friends: Traffic goldmine.

Sounds like Europe

forest on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Most of Europe has proportional voting. We don’t. We have first-past-the-post.

Ergo, if the Democrats have 40 percent and nobody else is close to that number, we have Democratic governance for the foreseeable future.

Like it or not, folks, it’s the GOP or nothing.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

I was going to say “cue the trucon outrage” from Kinggold and Meredith, but it looks like KG has already showed up..

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

stupid stupid and stupid !

Rook on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Hannity is not a conservative. He’s a shameless shill for the establishment republican party. He talks the talk but always falls in line with the likes of Boehner and McConnell

simkeith on October 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM

the Liberal Party with 10 percent of the vote, the Democrats with 40 percent, the GOP with 30 percent, and the Tea Party with 20

I think these numbers are spot on. I’ll…have to think about this.

S. Weasel on October 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Do it cowards. Good riddance.

NoStoppingUs on October 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Like it or not, folks, it’s the GOP or nothing.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Then many of us choose NOTHING. I have no problem staying home this election or the next. Romney was the last time I voted for someone who didn’t represent me.

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM

And if you believe that the tea party is destroying the Republican Party’s brand, amputating it now might be the only way to preserve the GOP as a rallying point for center-right voters.

Though the GOP establishment would like to blame its current problems on the tea party, they are truly at war with the base of their party, smearing good conservatives who would naturally be tea party favorites. They are deluding themselves into believing that by kicking the tea party off the bottom rung of politics, they can go back to business as usual, from the days of old.

So, in order to try to pick up where they left off prior to 2010 when the influence of the tea party won thousands of Republican seats nationwide, they are organizing against their base, and against every political courtesy ever established; the tea party won for them in 2010, so in 2014, they will try again as they did in 2012, to kill off the tea party.

http://jenkuznicki.com/2013/10/magnificent-imbeciles-the-enemy-within/

davidk on October 15, 2013 at 8:20 PM

Centrist democrat? The Blue Dogs have gone from 58 members four years ago to 12 today. Dems are now the party of uber-liberal hatred.

crash72 on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Yeah I want to see this mythical “bluedog” democrat. The Democrats move left, and the right capitulates and moves left with them.

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:20 PM

Splitting the vote will have terrible consequences (seriously).

OTOH, what have we got now? Anyone think we are going to reign in the budget? Buehler?

WitchDoctor on October 15, 2013 at 8:20 PM

Maybe it’s time for a conservative to replace Sean Hannity. Someone who doesn’t want to interview leftist everyday.

bgibbs1000 on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Then many of us choose NOTHING. I have no problem staying home this election or the next. Romney was the last time I voted for someone who didn’t represent me.

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM

If that’s truly your opinion, get the hell off this forum and leave the political discussions to people who actually participate in the process. We’ll be glad to be rid of you.

If that’s not your opinion, can up the bluster.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Let’s put this tired old notion of their being many different stripes of Democrats to rest once and for all…

There are no ‘Moderate Democrats’, there are no ‘Centrist Democrats’, there are no Pro Life Democrats, there are no ‘Blue Dog Democrats’ ( despite 12 Democrats still clinging to the name and their seats in purple districts) … all Democrats admitted to being, and proved themselves to be, Progressives the night they voted in LOCK STEP for Obamacare.

thatsafactjack on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

We already have 3 parties. What difference does it make if they made it official?

Vince on October 15, 2013 at 8:22 PM

their …there

thatsafactjack on October 15, 2013 at 8:22 PM

This is all just stupid talk. The Left got skeered by the shutdown and this is their response to it.

Johnnyreb on October 15, 2013 at 8:22 PM

It is Time!! “Split the Vote”, Blah..Blah..We’re losing anyway, might as well educate people in the interim and Start a Conservative Revolution!!

Tbone McGraw on October 15, 2013 at 8:23 PM

If that’s truly your opinion, get the hell off this forum and leave the political discussions to people who actually participate in the process. We’ll be glad to be rid of you.

If that’s not your opinion, can up the bluster.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

OOOh the equivalent of shut up…

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:23 PM

If that’s truly your opinion, get the hell off this forum and leave the political discussions to people who actually participate in the process.

GFY.

We’ll be glad to be rid of you.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Good. Be glad, dirtball.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 15, 2013 at 8:24 PM

Pissing off the RINO’s of HA..?

d1carter on October 15, 2013 at 8:24 PM

Over a year ago:

Bringing the War Back Home. “Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland”: Getting the military to start preparing for the violent repression of its own citizenry. US Army “deep thinker” creates an “enemy” out of the Tea Parties & “extremist militias.” “Red Teaming” from an Ignorance-Inspired Faulty Premise.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/08/bringing-war-back-home-full-spectrum.html

davidk on October 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

The idea that a 3rd party can successfully hold on to current Republican seats and also claim some new currently Democratic seats is ridiculous.

Use 3rd party groups and organizations to primary out the “Old Guard” and get MORE new blood into the Republican party. Get these damn career politicians out of office and send them packing to their retirement ASAP. Take back the Republican Party, don’t surrender…I’m tired of waiving white flags!

nextgen_repub on October 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Good. Be glad, dirtball.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 15, 2013 at 8:24 PM

KingGold lives in a bubble and thinks that somehow if people “like me” didn’t vote that he can along with his other squishies carry their candidate over the threshold. Still waiting to hear how Romney’s Presidency is going for him.

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM

We have a one party government now…

d1carter on October 15, 2013 at 8:16 PM

Agreed but they are taking both slots.

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM

KingGold lives in a bubble and thinks that somehow if people “like me” didn’t vote that he can along with his other squishies carry their candidate over the threshold. Still waiting to hear how Romney’s Presidency is going for him.

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM

I think KingMold is the Weeping Boner’s mother.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM

Imagine the electorate split in four — the Liberal Party with 10 percent of the vote, the Democrats with 40 percent, the GOP with 30 percent, and the Tea Party with 20.

I’m all for this – it’s how the Republicans originally killed off the Whig Party and got Abraham Lincoln elected.

Greyledge Gal on October 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Let me ask the zealots (including Sean Hannity, who’s sounding more and more like he’s terrified of Glenn Beck’s ratings and is thus emulating him) one question: can True Conservatives win on their own, if every Republican to the left of Ted Cruz were jettisoned?

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Yeah, the GOP is going to win *tons* of elections if the Tea Party splits off. Look how giant the No Labels party has become!

Good Solid B-Plus on October 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

We’ll be glad to be rid of you.

If that’s not your opinion, can up the bluster.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Have fun never winning another national election!

Of course, you advocate for Dem Lite policies anyway, so you should be fine with 40 years of unquestioned Democrat rule of all 3 branches of government.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 15, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Larry Sabato’s outfit had an interesting analysis of how Obama is driving Whites out of the Democrat party. Seems like a [social conservative middle of the road economically] landing spot for them in a new party.

reddevil on October 15, 2013 at 8:28 PM

No. Only people who want decades of Democratic dominance would want this.

wargamer6 on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Ummm, don’t look now but we’ve HAD Democrat dominance for decades now. You seem to forget that we are governing in a Democrat led initiative context, and have been since LBJ.

Cleombrotus on October 15, 2013 at 8:30 PM

If that’s truly your opinion, get the hell off this forum and leave the political discussions to people who actually participate in the process. We’ll be glad to be rid of you.

If that’s not your opinion, can up the bluster.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Excuse me, but who the hell are you and why are you trying to pull rank and banish others?

I don’t necessarily even agree with Melle… or disagree for that matter… I don’t know… I do know that you aren’t particularly well-regarded around here and we’ve shrugged off far more established trolls.

Gingotts on October 15, 2013 at 8:30 PM

NO. It’s always going to be much easier to fix the existing party than to give up and start over.

If you do start over, how do you keep from making the same mistakes in the primaries that we make in the Republican party? How do you keep the Jeff Flakes and Kelly Ayottes from running in the primaries of the new party and winning, and do it all while complying with state law?

slickwillie2001 on October 15, 2013 at 8:30 PM

Imagine the electorate split in four — the Liberal Party with 10 percent of the vote, the Democrats with 40 percent, the GOP with 30 percent, and the Tea Party with 20.

I’m all for this – it’s how the Republicans originally killed off the Whig Party and got Abraham Lincoln elected.

Greyledge Gal on October 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Just to clarify – I’m not in agreement with the breakdown though – I believe that if there were a Liberty Party it could attract most of the 75% of Republicans who are actually somewhat or very conservative fiscally along with Libertarians. Then it would be unbeatable.

Greyledge Gal on October 15, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Like it or not, folks, it’s the GOP or nothing.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Man, when you put it like that, let’s see: Get kicked in the teeth by demorats, or have a shiv slipped into my ribs by the GOP.

Tough choice, is there a third option?

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 8:32 PM

I’ll believe it when I see it. Been hearing talk of a “third” party for two years now and nothing has happened.

thebrokenrattle on October 15, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Fools. You are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. There is no ten years, no five years. Give in to the Dems now and the ruin is complete and guaranteed. The eastern republicans keep giving in to the Dems so what does it matter? When splitting the republicans is the fault of the Tea Party conservatives, this show is over. Face it, the liberal republicans desire to retain their power even if it means helping bring about the Democratic/liberal wasteland…………..as long as they get invited to a good party in DC now and again.

colonelkurtz on October 15, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Yeah, the GOP is going to win *tons* of elections if the Tea Party splits off. Look how giant the No Labels party has become!

Good Solid B-Plus on October 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

That’s not even close to answering my question, but irrelevant as always, B-Plus. Do you think the Tea Party is even a majority of the Republican Party any more?

September 26, 2013
Tea Party Support Dwindles to Near-Record Low

The Tea Party used to stand for limited government and lower spending. Now that it stands for hard-line social conservatism and GOP tribalism, are you surprised its membership has plunged?

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Besides… face it… the GOP and its adherents would miss us if we formed a separate party. No more ranting and raving at us during primaries… no more trying to dismiss us from public forums simply for having the temerity to disagree with the party line…no more blaming us for GOP failures… no more yelling at the computer display over policy differences… no more winning elections of any import… particularly the presidential election…

thatsafactjack on October 15, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Man, when you put it like that, let’s see: Get kicked in the teeth by demorats, or have a shiv slipped into my ribs by the GOP.

Tough choice, is there a third option?

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 8:32 PM

If you do that, the Democrats will continue to kick you in the teeth and the GOP will continue to stab you in the ribs.

AND YOU DONT WANT THAT, DO YOU? HUH, DO YOU DO YOU DO YOU?!

Jeddite on October 15, 2013 at 8:36 PM

What we need is more David Frum and more Karl Rove…that will do it.

d1carter on October 15, 2013 at 8:37 PM

yes, please. i want a new party. as a conservative, i’m tired of being told that i have to rely on the republican party. they are unreliable. i want another option.

if we do not split off into a new party, we’ll have to keep playing by the moderate gop’s rules.

i don’t think the republican party is effective when there are two different parts of it. one part has to split off from the other. it’s time for us to create a new party. if we would just make a decision and DO IT already, and be fully devoted to it, we would be strong!! this “oh it would kinda sorta be nice to have a new party but i’m not sure” thing will not work. we need to make a decision and be passionate about it. the faster we do that, the faster we’ll gain strength as a new party to go against the democrats. so again, the key is passion, devotion, etc. if the new party has that, it can achieve a lot.

but, this is just how i feel about life in general. if you want something, you need to go after it HARD and put lots of time and energy into it. you have to be bold and fully committed.

either make a new party and be bold about it or don’t make a new party at all. but talking about maybe doing it is worthless.

Sachiko on October 15, 2013 at 8:38 PM

What we need is more David Frum and more Karl Rove…that will do it.

d1carter on October 15, 2013 at 8:37 PM

I was thinking more Chris Christies and Jeb Bushes. :)

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Do you think the Tea Party is even a majority of the Republican Party any more?

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:35 PM

If the Tea Party was only 20% of the GOP (and that’s an incredibly conservative, low estimate), could you afford to lose it?

Find me where you’re going to make up those lost votes. Find me those mythical centrist Dems that can be lured by running Mike Bloomberg and David Frum on a No Labels ticket, and while you’re at it, find me a unicorn who shoots plasma lasers out of its eyes. If we’re going to search for creatures that don’t exist, we can at least aim high!

Good Solid B-Plus on October 15, 2013 at 8:39 PM

All BS talk from some show hosts who want more rating by playing on the anger of some conservatives… The anger will eventually subsides…

mnjg on October 15, 2013 at 8:40 PM

The Tea Party used to stand for limited government and lower spending. Now that it stands for hard-line social conservatism and GOP tribalism, are you surprised its membership has plunged?

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:35 PM

you watch to much obamamedia. get out more.

silent majority ring a bell?

renalin on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Excuse me, but who the hell are you and why are you trying to pull rank and banish others?

I don’t necessarily even agree with Melle… or disagree for that matter… I don’t know… I do know that you aren’t particularly well-regarded around here and we’ve shrugged off far more established trolls.

Gingotts on October 15, 2013 at 8:30 PM

I’m not banishing anybody, I’m certainly not pulling rank, and I’m not out to win any popularity contests around here. If that were my intention, I’d have wholeheartedly endorsed a lying fraudster for Senate, successively backstabbed Allen West, Marco Rubio and Tom Coburn, and at least five times have urged a radio host to run for president.

Personally, I don’t give a damn if I get called a RINO or a troll. I’m just as happy to act as a mirror for the worst elements of the conservative movement, who would happily throw the country away tomorrow for a short thrill today, and I intend to keep doing that.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

The problem is that liberalism doesn’t just implement bad ideas – they firewall their majorities with giveaways and amnesty so as to prevent us from ever undoing them. If we split now, 2016 is gone, SCOTUS will be automatic 5-4, 6-3 decisions against us EVERY TIME for the next 30 years.

Of course, if you think the country is already unsalvageable, this could be a good idea. Liberals will basically run uncontested and put their agenda into hyperdrive, probably forcing some of the good states to leave the union. In that case, I will be moving there the next day.

crrr6 on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Tough choice, is there a third option?

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 8:32 PM

Yes… rather than splitting off and starting a new party… what say we mutiny and take back the Grand Old Party?

Term limits to see that elected officials remember their oath of office, their constituents, and that they will be going back home to face the same people who elected them in order to end the memberships in the political class and loyalty conflicts… elect solid candidates… demand service and actual representation…if they falter or fail in this… immediate recall.

thatsafactjack on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Peter King and Johan McCain have convinced me that I don’t belong in the same party with them…so be it.

d1carter on October 15, 2013 at 8:42 PM

Hannity must be looking his ratings lately. Clinging to RINO’s won’t get ya where ya want to be, Sean.

bloviator on October 15, 2013 at 8:42 PM

I love the KingGold-types who fear Democrat dominance if there was a GOP split. Hell, the way it’s going now, the Democrats already dominate even with the GOP holding the House. Split it already.

Bitter Clinger on October 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

If the Tea Party was only 20% of the GOP (and that’s an incredibly conservative, low estimate), could you afford to lose it?

Find me where you’re going to make up those lost votes. Find me those mythical centrist Dems that can be lured by running Mike Bloomberg and David Frum on a No Labels ticket, and while you’re at it, find me a unicorn who shoots plasma lasers out of its eyes. If we’re going to search for creatures that don’t exist, we can at least aim high!

Good Solid B-Plus on October 15, 2013 at 8:39 PM

The answer is absolutely not… Also if the question will be if the non tea party of the Republicans are more than 20% and they certainly are more than 20% can we afford to lose them? Absolutely not…

So the conclusion is we cannot afford to lose any voting block of the party… We need to cool down and focus on the real socialists and not those who disagree with us sometimes… We cannot simply overburden the leadership of the Republican party with impossible things to achieve such as defunding and delaying Obamacare when the GOP only controls the House… Let us stop attacking everyone who disagree with us even slightly as a RINO… It is old and tired rhetoric… Focus on the socialists like the socialists focus on us…

mnjg on October 15, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Gingotts on October 15, 2013 at 8:08 PM

With our current GOP we have the same results anyways. Why simply delay it? Because you are nostalgic about the word Republican?

astonerii on October 15, 2013 at 8:44 PM

If we went to a Parliamentary type government we could do it. But that is not American is it? You want a monarchy too?

Just get off your high horse and deal with people’s differences!

What crybabies.

petunia on October 15, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Personally, I don’t give a damn if I get called a RINO or a troll. I’m just as happy to act as a mirror for the worst elements of the conservative movement

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Well, your views certainly are reflective of John McCain, so I’d say you’ve accomplished what you’ve set out to accomplish.

Stoic Patriot on October 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Hey Frum….Akin isn’t Tea Party.

KirknBurker on October 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM

I love the KingGold-types who fear Democrat dominance if there was a GOP split. Hell, the way it’s going now, the Democrats already dominate even with the GOP holding the House. Split it already.

Bitter Clinger on October 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Of course the democrats will dominate with the Republicans only controlling the House as they control the Senate and the White House…

mnjg on October 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM

The anger will eventually subsides…

mnjg on October 15, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Perhaps, but the dissatisfaction won’t. What’s the difference between a third party and that same number staying home?

Cleombrotus on October 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM

thatsafactjack on October 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Exactly right, Jackie. With their votes on Obamacare, the Ds proved their street creds as unadorned and complete liberal idealogues, no matter that a few of them might side every now and then with the pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-family issues. For those that do, it’s but window dressing to save their own butts at home when re-election comes around.

Unfortunately, the Rs do have moderates of course, RINOs, who are conservative on many issues but who crater left whenever the LSM cameras or keyboards are upon them. They are the Sunday church-goers who spend the rest of the week drunk and debauched.

The real question is how to get rid of them, and their heavy funders/enablers in the business community.
We can primary them, sure, but it takes a shit load of money and grass roots, emphasis on the former. Politics, as always it has been, is like water, seeking its own level but that journey has always needed some grease, some major money.

To rid the country of the left and the moderates is going to take more than a few serious billionaires and companies pulling some triggers, if they will just step up.

TXUS on October 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

NoStoppingUs on October 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Ya just gotta laugh at the tag…

The funny part is that Di(kHeds like this aren’t really sure who ‘us’is…

BigWyo on October 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Yeah, I know. Thanks for the remedial “education” though. I dint now how parlimnt gobmints werked, ur so smart.

forest on October 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

who would happily throw the country away tomorrow for a short thrill today, and I intend to keep doing that.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

What’s the gameplan, KingGold?

I started reading this site in August of 2009. Got approved as a commenter in January of 2010. I was on your side. I kept the mantra…”Play the long game….play the long game.”

But the long game never plays out, does it? We always lose, then say that we’ll win the war even though we lose nearly every battle.

The long game is a lie, because this party isn’t competent or savvy enough to play it.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 15, 2013 at 8:48 PM

I’m all for saving The GOP. For what, remains to be seen. I’ll stay on board, but, we will be traveling a wee bit more my direction on things. The righting of GOP course is worth wide. Just not at the expense I’ve currently been enjoying. The Party will either coalesce around solid Conservative behavior and flourish. Or it will go the way of the Whigs. The good of the Country trumps Party.

Bmore on October 15, 2013 at 8:49 PM

AP, you are a lot like Mikey Medved. You think you fool people into believing you are a conservative but when it comes right down to it, it is better to lose than to fight. What is it about Obamacare that you like? If the GOP caves now we will be stuck with it. Read the G** Damned thing. There is no way to throw it off once it is in place. These people (the radical liberals) have been working on this for 100 years. If it is fully implemented, there will be civil war down the line,

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on October 15, 2013 at 8:50 PM

mngj: My point is that the GOP capitulates at nearly every turn despite holding the House. They could just keeping blocking the Dems agenda but they keep wanting to roll over all the time.

Bitter Clinger on October 15, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Personally, I don’t give a damn if I get called a RINO or a troll. I’m just as happy to act as a mirror for the worst elements of the conservative movement, who would happily throw the country away tomorrow for a short thrill today, and I intend to keep doing that.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Look in your own mirror, sweetie- because the GOP as it stands now is accomplices in this country’s downfall. People like you truly do not understand how much we are all leaning over the cliff.

In 10 years, out frickin interest will pay for China’s military every year. In 17, our debt interest will outweigh the revenue coming in. Where do you think this money is going to come from? The current GOP is doing NOTHING about entitlements, and are capitulating on the BIGGEST entitlement since welfare and medicare..

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:51 PM

NO. It’s always going to be much easier to fix the existing party than to give up and start over.

i’m not really seeing much fixing going on though. people are trying but it’s not working that well. there’s still this “establishment” thing that has a firm grip on the party. so i don’t want to keep trying to fix it if it’s not going to work. we’re just wasting our time.

If you do start over, how do you keep from making the same mistakes in the primaries that we make in the Republican party? How do you keep the Jeff Flakes and Kelly Ayottes from running in the primaries of the new party and winning, and do it all while complying with state law?

slickwillie2001 on October 15, 2013 at 8:30 PM

a major problem with the gop is career politicians- candidates who get into office not because they genuinely want to serve people but because they want to have a high status. so what they do is make decisions based on themselves and not based on the people. (example: rubio, who campaigned as a conservative and then in office, did other things) and it’s not just the people in office, it’s the gop staffers/ the ones in charge/ the “establishment.” they care about being in power and having a high status.

to prevent this in the new party, the staff/leadership and candidates must be very open, transparent, and held accountable. communication is key. the powerful people in the new party have to communicate with normal members of the party. (regular people like you and me) of course, i don’t have some specific plan mapped out. but i just have this idea that there needs to be more honesty and transparency. i see that as the major problem in the gop.

the new party would have to be organized very carefully to prevent this. we can’t just structure ourselves like the gop, and enable career politicians and status seekers to take root in the party and sit there forever.

Sachiko on October 15, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Haven’t been happy with the GOP for a long, long time, but a “conservative” third party would be nothing but religious zealots and abortion, abortion, abortion. Want a third party without that? You’ve got one. They call themselves libertarians.

Rational Thought on October 15, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Haven’t been happy with the GOP for a long, long time, but a “conservative” third party would be nothing but religious zealots and abortion, abortion, abortion. Want a third party without that? You’ve got one. They call themselves libertarians.

Rational Thought on October 15, 2013 at 8:52 PM

I love libertarians because they live in theoretical world where liberals in power don’t exist..

melle1228 on October 15, 2013 at 8:54 PM

mngj: My point is that the GOP capitulates at nearly every turn despite holding the House. They could just keeping blocking the Dems agenda but they keep wanting to roll over all the time.

Bitter Clinger on October 15, 2013 at 8:50 PM

It is not possible to defund an existing law when the party who want to defund control just one chamber of Congress… The democrats who controlled both the House and the Senate in 2007-2008 could not achieve their treason and defund the Iraq war and that was not a law… Talk is much easier than doing when it comes to politics…

mnjg on October 15, 2013 at 8:56 PM

If Palin, Cruz, et. al. started a third party, I’d like to see them concentrate it initially in a single state — similar to the Free State Project where libertarians had planned on taking over New Hampshire.

Like Galt’s Gulch, if you could provide an environment of respect for individual liberty and the encouragement of free market economics, millions of such non-parasitic individuals would flock there and make it the envy of the world.

If the federal government tried to interfere, we could always have Round 2 of secession …

ShainS on October 15, 2013 at 8:56 PM

The long game is a lie, because this party isn’t competent or savvy enough to play it.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 15, 2013 at 8:48 PM

The party is fine. The individual elements of the party sabotage one another constantly; that’s the problem.

And, for the record, we are not playing the long game. Both 2010 and 2012 were conducted for instant satisfaction. Because of that, we lost five Senate seats by nominating bad candidates when we had good ones – which is precisely how many seats we’d need to control the Senate right now. But no. Defeating the RINOs came first.

I won’t accept the burden of failure for a strategy that was never implemented.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:56 PM

If Palin, Cruz, et. al. started a third party, I’d like to see them concentrate it initially in a single state — similar to the Free State Project where libertarians had planned on taking over New Hampshire.

Like Galt’s Gulch, if you could provide an environment of respect for individual liberty and the encouragement of free market economics, millions of such non-parasitic individuals would flock there and make it the envy of the world.

If the federal government tried to interfere, we could always have Round 2 of s e c e s s i o n …

ShainS on October 15, 2013 at 8:57 PM

It’s refreshing to see we are having this debate before the next election. Those on the right need a shared outlook. Where do we want to go? How much pain are we willing to endure to get there? People deserve the politicians they elect…..hopefully conservative arguments will prevail. If not, God help us.

David in ATL on October 15, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Personally, I don’t give a damn if I get called a RINO or a troll. I’m just as happy to act as a mirror for the worst elements of the conservative movement, who would happily throw the country away tomorrow for a short thrill today, and I intend to keep doing that.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM

I call BS.

Cleombrotus on October 15, 2013 at 8:58 PM

In theory, without very conservative voters in the party, some centrists who’ve been reluctantly voting Democratic lately due to fear/loathing of the right will decide it’s safe to come home to the newly RINO-esque GOP.

Allah

That’s the dumbest theory I have read about GOP politics in quite a while. No one who votes for these left wing idiot Democrats would ever vote for a Republican, no matter how many conservatives mock the Republican as a RINO.

Jaibones on October 15, 2013 at 8:58 PM

AP, you are a lot like Mikey Medved. You think you fool people into believing you are a conservative but when it comes right down to it, it is better to lose than to fight. What is it about Obamacare that you like? If the GOP caves now we will be stuck with it. Read the G** Damned thing. There is no way to throw it off once it is in place. These people (the radical liberals) have been working on this for 100 years. If it is fully implemented, there will be civil war down the line,

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on October 15, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Tell us how is it possible to defund Obamacare when the democrats Senate and Obama not only would not defund it but they are ready to burn the entire country down to keep it and the media together with a majority of people will cheer them on… Wake up to reality…

mnjg on October 15, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on October 15, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Yeah..I listen to Medved on the way home from work. He’s usually pretty level headed on most things but good god he’s a John McCain lover from the get go…Lay down and die..what good is it going to do…go along, get along or WE’RE ALL gonna die…If we don’t cave today, we won’t be around tomorrow….Tomorrow keeps coming there Mike…and the Turds just keep on coming…

That and he’s absolutely convinced that Big Foot is real.

BigWyo on October 15, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Haven’t been happy with the GOP for a long, long time, but a “conservative” third party would be nothing but religious zealots and abortion, abortion, abortion. Want a third party without that? You’ve got one. They call themselves libertarians.

IRRational Thought on October 15, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Fixed

bgibbs1000 on October 15, 2013 at 8:59 PM

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