Evening thread: Fitch puts U.S. AAA credit on “rating watch negative” as House prepares to vote

posted at 7:21 pm on October 15, 2013 by Allahpundit

The House was supposed to vote tonight on its fig-leaf “last chance” bill, but just as I’m writing this news is breaking that it might not happen. I can only assume that means Boehner knows he doesn’t have the votes and doesn’t want to invite a humiliation on the House floor with the Senate watching. For what it’s worth, both FreedomWorks and Heritage Action came out against the leadership’s bill tonight so there’s not even a shred of conservative cred to be had here for members in voting for it. Where that leaves us is unclear; maybe Boehner’s ready to abandon the fig-leaf “last chance” and finally bring a clean-ish short-term debt-ceiling hike to the floor. Nothing to lose by doing so, really: Per John McCormack of the Standard, the House bill has already been further watered down since this morning so there’s no point in hanging onto whatever meager concessions remain.

Bye-bye to the anti-fraud provisions, which were mostly for show anyway given the way the House drafted them. Here’s the state of the “defund” effort, then, via Byron York: “They haven’t repealed Obamacare, haven’t defunded it, haven’t delayed it for a year, haven’t delayed the individual mandate, haven’t delayed the penalty for the individual mandate — in other words, they haven’t accomplished any of the goals they embraced at the beginning of the continuing resolution fight. Even after a partial shutdown of the government, now in its third week, all of the group’s goals remain elusive.”

And now, says the rating agency Fitch, time’s up:

Fitch Ratings has placed the United States of America’s (U.S.) ‘AAA’ Long-term foreign and local currency Issuer Default Ratings (IDRs) on Rating Watch Negative (RWN)…

- The U.S. authorities have not raised the federal debt ceiling in a timely manner before the Treasury exhausts extraordinary measures. The U.S. Treasury Secretary has said that extraordinary measures will be exhausted by 17 October, leaving cash reserves of just USD30bn. Although Fitch continues to believe that the debt ceiling will be raised soon, the political brinkmanship and reduced financing flexibility could increase the risk of a U.S. default.

- Although the Treasury would still have limited capacity to make payments after 17 October it would be exposed to volatile revenue and expenditure flows. The Treasury may be unable to prioritise debt service, and it is unclear whether it even has the legal authority to do so. The U.S. risks being forced to incur widespread delays of payments to suppliers and employees, as well as social security payments to citizens – all of which would damage the perception of U.S. sovereign creditworthiness and the economy.

- The prolonged negotiations over raising the debt ceiling (following the episode in August 2011) risks undermining confidence in the role of the U.S. dollar as the preeminent global reserve currency, by casting doubt over the full faith and credit of the U.S. This “faith” is a key reason why the U.S. ‘AAA’ rating can tolerate a substantially higher level of public debt than other ‘AAA’ sovereigns.

The good-ish news, if there is such a thing amid another total failure of GOP brinksmanship, is that the latest poll from Pew is less depressing for Republicans than the WSJ/NBC poll last week. The split here on who the public blames is just 46/37 between the GOP and Obama; in fact, despite being seen by a majority as more extreme in its positions, the GOP leads the Democrats on the questions of who’d do a better job dealing with the economy and managing the government. (On the other hand, Obama’s job approval is 43/51. Congressional Republicans’ is 20/72.) That’s further evidence that this whole sorry episode, for all the media sturm and drang over it, will likely do little to hurt the GOP in the midterms — provided of course that we don’t hit the ceiling on Thursday. Extraordinary economic episodes could produce extraordinary electoral outcomes.

Within the last five minutes, Robert Costa of NRO has reported that tonight’s vote is indeed canceled because Boehner doesn’t have the votes. Consider this your thread, then, to comment on what, if anything, comes out of the Senate as a substitute. That’s Boehner’s next agonizing challenge — does he bring a Reid/McConnell bill to the floor and pass it with mostly Democratic votes or does he offer a clean short-term debt-ceiling hike and pass that with (likely) bipartisan support, with Reid then left to decide whether to pass it in the Senate or risk default by rejecting it? One closing thought here: If the point of all this from Democrats’ perspective was to teach the GOP a lesson about not using shutdowns and the debt ceiling as leverage for policy concessions, I’m … pretty sure that that lesson has now been learned. It might have been learned in different ways — e.g., tea partiers may conclude that what they need is a change of Speaker, not a change of tactics — but right now the thought of another round of brinksmanship and RINO/tea party recriminations makes me feel like Alex in “A Clockwork Orange” hearing Beethoven after the Ludovico technique. That is to say, I don’t think Reid needs to worry about sending the wrong message if he accepts a token GOP concession or two in exchange for raising the debt ceiling. Everyone knows who lost. Boehner won’t try this again soon.

Update: A painful quotation from Pelosi, not because it’s false but because it isn’t: “The House has a different idea and that is holding up the works a bit and I hope not putting a chilling effect on what is going on in the Senate… Perhaps the Speaker just needs to humor his troops so they can sow their oats and then get to the responsible place.” That’s what this has been about from the beginning, letting tea partiers make a doomed-to-fail stand to signal their implacable opposition to ObamaCare before the rest of the caucus is forced to grit its teeth and raise the debt ceiling. The whole thing was kabuki.

Update: To repeat a point from this post, if you’re looking for a silver lining here, it’s that you may very well end getting a delay of ObamaCare anyway — not because the GOP forced it but because it’s the only way to prevent a total insurance-industry catastrophe at this point. Here’s a bit of anecdotal evidence that comes from, I kid you not, a diarist at the Daily Kos:

My wife and I just got our updates from Kaiser telling us what our 2014 rates will be. Her monthly has been $168 this year, mine $150. We have a high deductible. We are generally healthy people who don’t go to the doctor often. I barely ever go. The insurance is in case of a major catastrophe.

Well, now, because of Obamacare, my wife’s rate is gong to $302 per month and mine is jumping to $284.

I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?

Oh, ok, if we qualify, we can get some government assistance. Great. So now I have to jump through another hoop to just chisel some of this off. And we don’t qualify, anyway, so what’s the point?

Welcome to utopia, buddy. Hand over your wallet.


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Let It Ride Boys.

Bmore on October 15, 2013 at 7:23 PM

Eunuchs.

Jeddite on October 15, 2013 at 7:23 PM

Two-Party system RIP. The Rs know full well what they’re doing, just as they will when they cave on flat out amnesty later this year.

rightwingyahooo on October 15, 2013 at 7:24 PM

For what it’s worth, both FreedomWorks and Heritage Action came out against the leadership’s bill tonight so there’s not even a shred of conservative cred to be had here for members in voting for it. Where that leaves us is unclear; maybe Boehner’s ready to abandon the fig-leaf “last chance” and finally bring a clean-ish short-term debt-ceiling hike to the floor. Nothing to lose by doing so

So long as we’re using the “nothing to lose” standard, simply pass a bill to reopen the government, raise the debt ceiling, repeal Obamacare, and attach every single GOP priority imaginable.

Stoic Patriot on October 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM

#Breaking: Obama says he would veto debt-ceiling legislation if it includes provision cutting health subsidies for congressional officials.

— POLITICO (@politico) October 15, 2013

Then, default is not only legally, but in every other way, on him.

The Democrats passed Error404Care with no provision for subsidies for congressional officials. Their subsidies came much later when Obama directed OPM to deem Obamacare authorising such subsidisation.

Is it too much to ask for that Error404Care be implemented as passed by Congress, signed into law by Obama, and upheld by the Supreme Court?

You’d think Obama delusionally believes that he is above the law or something.

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 7:29 PM

I’d send a clean CR/DL to the Senate/WH with only one condition, the Vitter amendment. Let Obama veto a provision (Vitter) that over 90% of the voters agree with…

GCM on October 15, 2013 at 7:29 PM

Update: To repeat a point from this post, if you’re looking for a silver lining here, it’s that you may very well end getting a delay of ObamaCare anyway — not because the GOP forced it but because it’s the only way to prevent a total insurance-industry catastrophe at this point

At which point the GOP (or at least Tea Party House GOP) ends up being 100% vindicated.

Stoic Patriot on October 15, 2013 at 7:29 PM

They should drop the Obamacare but hold out for concrete policy gains. If they don’t they are making mistake. With that said, its easy to get up in the whirlwind, in practice this to shall pass.

rob verdi on October 15, 2013 at 7:29 PM

The KOS mofacky can pound sand, his Party passed a bill they never read while telling people like him that they had finally solved the healthcare version of cold fusion; completely free, top-notch care at any time for everyone.

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 7:30 PM

The Tea Partiers can change leaders all they want, it would end the same if you’re going to start with such a foolish position. Cruz and company gave the dems every piece of ammunition they needed. They could have taken a far more sensible position and kept it. Imagine how the dems misplayed in the beginning with the GOP just holding to delaying the mandate and device tax. The entirety of the democrats ammunition would have been gone. But damn if Lee and Cruz weren’t going to have their stupid moment in the sun.

Zaggs on October 15, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Update: To repeat a point from this post, if you’re looking for a silver lining here, it’s that you may very well end getting a delay of ObamaCare anyway — not because the GOP forced it but because it’s the only way to prevent a total insurance-industry catastrophe at this point

At which point the GOP (or at least Tea Party House GOP) ends up being 100% vindicated.

Stoic Patriot on October 15, 2013 at 7:29 PM

In time for an election no less.

rob verdi on October 15, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Byron York’s article was instructive. All Cruz had to do was keep his damned mouth shut for one week, allow the CR to continue at phase II sequester levels, and then tie BOcare to the debt ceiling.

Cruz threw conservatives into an insane legislative cul-de-sac and chose the wrong vehicle over which to have the fight.

Cruz was warned of exactly this outcome, publicly and privately. Freshmen senators are legislative babes in the woods and, like children, are better to be seen than heard. I for one am furious w the counter-productive tactics of the Tea Party.

matthew8787 on October 15, 2013 at 7:31 PM

The whole thing was kabuki.

Welcome to utopia, buddy. Hand over your wallet.

~Allahpundit

Well said. Might have added “Stand and deliver.” but otherwise…perfect.

LET IT RIDE. h/t Bmore.

thatsafactjack on October 15, 2013 at 7:32 PM

No delay no nothing.

Everything goes as is and we pay the consequences. That may be the only way people will finally get it.

Hard lesson but I think it’s one the congress critters and the lapdog media have to learn.

gophergirl on October 15, 2013 at 7:36 PM

I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?

I used to think all lefties were maliciously evil. I still think a lot of them are. But I can see, based on this excerpt, that man of them are just functionally retarded.

AUINSC on October 15, 2013 at 7:36 PM

AP is now among those who see the ONLY solution to our debt ceiling crisis is to drastically increase spending. Why is it so insane to try and argue against this? I no longer understand his position.

kpguru on October 15, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Boehner won’t try this again soon.

He won’t have to. Cruz will do it for him. One speech later, and Boehner will again be stuck between breaking the Hastert rule and shutting it all down again.

Can anybody say with any intellectual honesty that Cruz has learned from this? He’s saying the same this now as he did when this whole mess started.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 7:38 PM

Insurance companies will file suits against the government for exchange delays, which directly impact their projected risk pools.

Uninsured will sue the government when they become sick and have missed the open enrollment windows and are denied coverage.

Add in sticker shock, co-pay shock, and deductible shock.

2014 will be epic.

can_con on October 15, 2013 at 7:40 PM

Can anybody say with any intellectual honesty that Cruz has learned from this? He’s saying the same this now as he did when this whole mess started.

KingGold

Oh Cruz has learned from it. Learned how much Tea Party cred he can get. He’ll be stupid enough to think that will carry him to the presidency just like he thought Tea Party uproar would be enough to get Barry to sign off on defunding Obamacare.

Zaggs on October 15, 2013 at 7:40 PM

Insurance companies will file suits against the government for exchange delays, which directly impact their projected risk pools.

Uninsured will sue the government when they become sick and have missed the open enrollment windows and are denied coverage.

Add in sticker shock, co-pay shock, and deductible shock.

2014 will be epic.

can_con

And all of that could’ve happened with the GOP starting and standing with a year delay in the mandate and medical device tax repeal.

Zaggs on October 15, 2013 at 7:42 PM

The GOP fumbles again…

Did not the GOP have a budget bill the cut the budget? Send that, keep the sequestration levels in place and go ahead and keep Obamacare out of it. Announce, publicly that’s what you’re going to do -

Obama CANNOT claim to veto it if he doesn’t like the funding, Reid CANNOT table it because it gives them everything they wanted…

The onus goes onto the Democrats and the country club Republicans can claim victory along with the conservatives who earned this victory.

Geez people… it’s poker not rocket science. You’ve inadvertently bluffed Obama and co’ into overplaying their hand – Now drill ‘em on the phalanx.

Skywise on October 15, 2013 at 7:43 PM

The House was supposed to vote tonight on its fig-leaf “last chance” bill, but just as I’m writing this news is breaking that it might not happen.

You posted this at 7:21pm. Fully an hour after your gleeful hatred of Ted Cruz and the “tea baggers” was dust. Why no update on that? Why no discussion of how Heritage Action thwarted your boy John from selling the GOP down the river once again.

For God’s sake why is HA turning into MSNBC?

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 7:44 PM

“They haven’t repealed Obamacare, haven’t defunded it, haven’t delayed it for a year, haven’t delayed the individual mandate, haven’t delayed the penalty for the individual mandate — in other words, they haven’t accomplished any of the goals they embraced at the beginning of the continuing resolution fight. Even after a partial shutdown of the government, now in its third week, all of the group’s goals remain elusive.”

…success!

KOOLAID2 on October 15, 2013 at 7:45 PM

I for one think Obama wants to default. In the end, he knows it will be blamed on the republicans and it’s not like he wants a strong economy anyway so why not default?

mrscullen on October 15, 2013 at 7:45 PM

We need reform. There is a good percentage of the public that is demanding it. However, Democrats and most Republicans are opposed to reform and those Republicans that do want it are ineffectual and do not have any sway with the whole of Congress. We also have a Neo-Marxist President with carte-blanche authority and political cover granted to him by our press. We’ll never get things going in the other direction. Our system and it’s people are hopelessly deluded and lost on every level and most of our politicians in every faction of every party are lame and corrupt. This nation is so screwed.

Corporal Tunnel on October 15, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Can anybody say with any intellectual honesty that Cruz has learned from this? He’s saying the same this now as he did when this whole mess started.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 7:38 PM

Yes he did, Cruz learned that the Old Guard of both parties will stab him in the back, cut him off at the knees, and throttle him like a chicken.

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 7:46 PM

A nd all of that could’ve happened with the GOP starting and standing with a year delay in the mandate and medical device tax repeal.

Zaggs on October 15, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Obama would have never signed off on the delay. Cruz and Lee layed down their markers. They will cash those chips in due time.

can_con on October 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM

And Cruz leads us to yet another bold, daring, unnecessary utter defeat. Guy just has that special touch. Can turn any situation into a guaranteed loss.

AngusMc on October 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM

The Tea Partiers can change leaders all they want, it would end the same if you’re going to start with such a foolish position. Cruz and company gave the dems every piece of ammunition they needed. They could have taken a far more sensible position and kept it. Imagine how the dems misplayed in the beginning with the GOP just holding to delaying the mandate and device tax. The entirety of the democrats ammunition would have been gone. But damn if Lee and Cruz weren’t going to have their stupid moment in the sun.
Zaggs on October 15, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Ha ha ha ha.

You think the GOP would have gotten the individual mandate delayed?

gwelf on October 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM

Let’s hit the debt ceiling and see what happens. I’m betting NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dirtseller on October 15, 2013 at 11:56 AM

hahahahaha!!!!!!

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Zags, KingGold,

Seriously, how do you think the House could have forced a delay of anything?
What was the real plan that Cruz/Lee supposedly messed up?

gwelf on October 15, 2013 at 7:50 PM

Yes he did, Cruz learned that the Old Guard of both parties will stab him in the back, cut him off at the knees, and throttle him like a chicken.

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Cruz did that to himself. Cruz is looking for ‘fame’ and ‘fortune’.

Redford on October 15, 2013 at 7:50 PM

House Majority leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) just said moments ago, “No votes tonight. We’ll see you in the morning.”

pambi on October 15, 2013 at 7:50 PM

I for one think Obama wants to default. In the end, he knows it will be blamed on the republicans and it’s not like he wants a strong economy anyway so why not default?

mrscullen on October 15, 2013 at 7:45 PM

Of course he does so he can create more dependence on the government. That’s always been his goal. He wants scenes like what happened at WalMart over the weekend.

He hates capitalism, he hates personal responsibility, he hates what this country was founded on.

gophergirl on October 15, 2013 at 7:50 PM

I see McCain’s paid shills are out in force.

Somehow Boehner’s failure in the house is laid solely at the feet of Cruz?

Huh…

Skywise on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

Come November of ’14, if the ACA tubes as predicted, the Democrats and RINOs are going to have the Devil of a time justifying their current stand to an incensed public. Look for massive TP gains then.

PersonFromPorlock on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

I think taking a stand was honorable. Do a clean CR to avoid default… give the dems everything they want and then watch it all unfold.

Truth be told, even if they did “defund” OBamacare it would not make a bit of difference in employers hiring/layoff positions, insurance company rates, or anything else for that matter. Companies have spent millions to meet compliance. A one year reprieve will do nothing to help the economy.

The current insurance premiums you see now are here to say. Now eat your peas.

Key West Reader on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

hahahahaha!!!!!!
lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Why do you think Obama would refuse to pay our bonds? We bring enough money to do it. A default is not possible unless Obama actually makes it happen.

gwelf on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

Can anybody say with any intellectual honesty that Cruz has learned from this? He’s saying the same this now as he did when this whole mess started.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 7:38 PM

What exactly was the lesson he was supposed to learn?

The fact of the matter is that if you work from a position of principle, then your message doesn’t change with polls. That’s where the intellectual honesty thing comes into the equation. Not that I expect you to be intelligent enough to understand that. You’re clearly a dim bulb.

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

House Majority leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) just said moments ago, “No votes tonight. We’ll see you in the morning.”

pambi on October 15, 2013 at 7:50 PM

I think that’s a good excuse for a no politics night for me.

Time for hockey

gophergirl on October 15, 2013 at 7:52 PM

Boss heard Boehner will bring [Senate deal] to the floor… House action probably over.” –House GOP aide, via e-mail.

NRO Costa’s latest tweet.

One assumes the Hastert Rule will be ignored again.

Wethal on October 15, 2013 at 7:52 PM

I for one think Obama wants to default. In the end, he knows it will be blamed on the republicans and it’s not like he wants a strong economy anyway so why not default?

mrscullen on October 15, 2013 at 7:45 PM

Default would be his legacy. Trust me, he doesn’t want this. Deadbeat Barry the Default Disaster Dog (eater).

Key West Reader on October 15, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Can anybody say with any intellectual honesty that Cruz has learned from this? He’s saying the same this now as he did when this whole mess started.

KingGold on October 15, 2013 at 7:38 PM

I understand how foreign that is, in DC, but I consider it a compliment.

pambi on October 15, 2013 at 7:53 PM

No income verification is a demonrat admission that this scheme is based on fraud.
This nation is a pathetic joke.

oceansidecon on October 15, 2013 at 7:53 PM

I see McCain’s paid shills are out in force.

Somehow Boehner’s failure in the house is laid solely at the feet of Cruz?

Huh…

Skywise on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

Bohner was totally prepped and ready to die on the “Delay” hill. Cuz, uh… Bohner is such a, uh… Well, he said, uh… Medical device tax. Debt ceiling. Uhhh…

Then Ted Cruz came along and RUINED EVERYTHING

Jeddite on October 15, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Key West Reader on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

yep yep and yep

gophergirl on October 15, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Dude. Clean Debt Ceiling Bill. For ONE WEEK. Repeat next week. And the week after. And the week after. Etc. Just waste all of your time on Debt Ceiling negotiations and theater so you can stop screwing things up. Thanks.

Oh yeah. And no CR. Keep the 17% shut down until you get concessions – at this point, I’d take privatization of the National Parks Service.

besser tot als rot on October 15, 2013 at 7:54 PM

Priceless:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said he was “proud” of Boehner’s handling of the crisis. Then within moments he pleaded with Democrats to bail out the GOP, which he admitted has “screwed up” and “really did go too far” in the shutdown and debt limit standoffs.

“We won’t be the last political party to overplay our hand,” he said. “It might happen one day on the Democratic side. And if it did, would Republicans, for the good of the country, kinda give a little? We really did go too far. We screwed up. But their response is making things worse, not better.”

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Skywise on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

I was just going to say the same, and decided to refresh first.

pambi on October 15, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Can anybody say with any intellectual honesty that Cruz has learned from this? He’s saying the same this now as he did when this whole mess started.
KingGold
Oh Cruz has learned from it. Learned how much Tea Party cred he can get. He’ll be stupid enough to think that will carry him to the presidency just like he thought Tea Party uproar would be enough to get Barry to sign off on defunding Obamacare.
Zaggs on October 15, 2013 at 7:40 PM

The stretch of imagination you two have assumed is untenable. Shaddup already about party (any party, Tea or otherwise) and talk about principle.

egmont on October 15, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Man, this thread has gotten troll-heavy…

bofh on October 15, 2013 at 7:56 PM

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Uh, Graham says this stuff all the time.

gwelf on October 15, 2013 at 7:57 PM

Why do you think Obama would refuse to pay our bonds? We bring enough money to do it. A default is not possible unless Obama actually makes it happen.

gwelf on October 15, 2013 at 7:51 PM

And if he doesn’t it is an impeachable offense.

Maybe that’s that “tea baggers” secret plan. Drive us to default and then impeach Obama because, after all, the only thing important in our economy and government is making Obama look good. None of this debate and fighting about debt limits and budgets was for any reason than destroying Obama’s street cred. We really should ask the Quisling Republicans about that.

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 7:57 PM

Byron York’s article was instructive. All Cruz had to do was keep his damned mouth shut for one week, allow the CR to continue at phase II sequester levels, and then tie BOcare to the debt ceiling.

Cruz threw conservatives into an insane legislative cul-de-sac and chose the wrong vehicle over which to have the fight.

Cruz was warned of exactly this outcome, publicly and privately. Freshmen senators are legislative babes in the woods and, like children, are better to be seen than heard. I for one am furious w the counter-productive tactics of the Tea Party.

matthew8787 on October 15, 2013 at 7:31 PM

Oh, please – you and the rest of the “not now, later” chorus would’ve been roasting Cruz if he had chosen to do exactly as you’re whimpering now, lambasting him for not waiting until the *next* time to fight.

F*ck that. Fight *now*. Every hill. Give nothing back. There’s really no time left for ‘well, maybe the *next* fight is the better choice – we’ll wait and do *that*.’ GOP has been saying/doing that for too long, and look where we are.

Midas on October 15, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Cruz did that to himself. Cruz is looking for ‘fame’ and ‘fortune’.

Redford on October 15, 2013 at 7:50 PM

ROFL

And it just so happened that Wacko Bird was the go-to guy when the leftist media bootlickers needed a nice anti Cruz soundbite, the same guy who once told us that this Obama feller sure would make a good president.

Cruz is the Russian sniper from “War of the Rats”; German guns firing at him from ahead, Russian guns firing at him from behind.

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 7:59 PM

Let the Dems have everything they want.

Call it the ObamaBudget or something.

They own it.

faraway on October 15, 2013 at 8:00 PM

I for one think Obama wants to default. In the end, he knows it will be blamed on the republicans and it’s not like he wants a strong economy anyway so why not default?
mrscullen on October 15, 2013 at 7:45 PM
Default would be his legacy. Trust me, he doesn’t want this. Deadbeat Barry the Default Disaster Dog (eater).
Key West Reader on October 15, 2013 at 7:53 PM

But he does want this. His legacy will be 10 years from now. He can transform America now and do it by defaulting, everyone blaming the GOP, passing amnesty, and having a democrat majority for eternity. That will be his legacy if he allows the government to default. How he won everything for his party.

mrscullen on October 15, 2013 at 8:00 PM

Man, this thread has gotten troll-heavy…

bofh on October 15, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Good sign. After the House cave failed, they clearly have called all hands on deck for posting talking points about the armageddon that occurs on Friday after the artificial deadline of Thursday is broached.

Happy Nomad on October 15, 2013 at 8:00 PM

hahahahaha!!!!!!

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 7:49 PM

We went 3 days past the debt ceiling in 1977 when Democrats controlled both Congress and the White House.

We went 10 days past the debt ceiling in 1995.

Over the past five years government spending and deficits have soared while average American families have seen their incomes fall. Regular families have been forced to prioritize bills, cut spending, and do without in order to balance their budgets. Perhaps government needs a lesson in how budgeting works in the real world.

Debt increases under Obama have been twice as economic growth.

How long do you think that can last?

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said he was “proud” of Boehner’s handling of the crisis. Then within moments he pleaded with Democrats to bail out the GOP, which he admitted has “screwed up” and “really did go too far” in the shutdown and debt limit standoffs.

“We won’t be the last political party to overplay our hand,” he said. “It might happen one day on the Democratic side. And if it did, would Republicans, for the good of the country, kinda give a little? We really did go too far. We screwed up. But their response is making things worse, not better.”

*blink*

*blink blink*

LOLOLOL

I’m not sure there’s a more pathetic example of sniveling, lickspittle behavior on the part of a Republican politician yet seen in history.

SC – you damn well better do something about this guy.

Midas on October 15, 2013 at 8:01 PM

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM

ROFL

Linseed is about as popular as jock itch around here.

Bishop on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Of some note on all the Cruz bashing.

Who has Cruz forced out in the open with his actions?

For sure we all know the commie Democrats hate U.S. and only want to tax U.S. and use U.S. as Tax ID numbers and nothing else to hold on to power and skim off the top for their on re-election.

So, it must be these RINO skunks who back shoot U.S. and hide inside our lines only for a better shot and more of U.S. later as they share in the Tax Money.

Go Cruz you make it hard for them to hide and many of the supporters of it come here and squeal like pigs caught under a gate.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Such morons. “But . . . but, but . . . it’s Obama’s fault!” A global stock market crash, recession, collapse in money market funds, a run on the banks, bank failures, and zero lending. It will make 2008 look like a bump in the road. Everyone will suffer, including me, but it will give me a certain grim satisfaction to know that you tools will be hurt as well. Poor Bishop. No more money for guns and porn.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Cruz said fund the government. This isn’t Cruz’ circus. It’s Boehner’s.

Axe on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM

A painful quotation from Pelosi, not because it’s false but because it isn’t: “The House has a different idea and that is holding up the works a bit and I hope not putting a chilling effect on what is going on in the Senate… Perhaps the Speaker just needs to humor his troops so they can sow their oats and then get to the responsible place.”

So, where does this end? At the place that Pelosi considers “responsible.”

Look – I get it, the GOP only controls one House of Congress. But that doesn’t mean that they control none of it! If we’re ending in a place that Pelosi is happy with, why does Boehner even both holding the gavel. Just hand it over!

besser tot als rot on October 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM

It is time for a Libertarian Party to emerge.

Nothing could possibly be worse than the DINO’s (Marxists) and the RINO’s (Marxist Lite – Progressive). Throw ‘em all out and start over.

Key West Reader on October 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM

And Merry Christmas to you:

Barack Obama ‏@BarackObama 9h

“Michelle and I extend our best wishes for a joyous Eid al-Adha to Muslims around the world.” —President Obama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha

davidk on October 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM

I for one think Obama wants to default. In the end, he knows it will be blamed on the republicans and it’s not like he wants a strong economy anyway so why not default?
mrscullen on October 15, 2013 at 7:45 PM
Default would be his legacy. Trust me, he doesn’t want this. Deadbeat Barry the Default Disaster Dog (eater).
Key West Reader on October 15, 2013 at 7:53 PM

But he does want this. His legacy will be 10 years from now. He can transform America now and do it by defaulting, everyone blaming the GOP, passing amnesty, and having a democrat majority for eternity. That will be his legacy if he allows the government to default. How he won everything for his party.

mrscullen on October 15, 2013 at 8:00 PM

If he does it, he will either be impeached, or the people will forcibly remove him kicking and screaming from office for the Constitution/oath-violating tyrant he is.

Yeah, right – ought to happen, won’t.

Midas on October 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM

My question, Allah, is if not now, when? At what point is there going to be an end to the ridiculous 2008-era stimulus level of spending? Will even an ounce of responsibility win the day? When will the very first baby step in direction of solvency ever be taken? To me this had little to do with winning, with brinkmanship or anything else. To me, this was the tea party standing up for what is right. Obamacare was passed using under the tables deals without a SINGLE Republican vote. That is exactly half the country without a single bit of representation in that monstrosity of an unread bill.

You call it kabuki and destined to fail, and that may very well be the case.. but I will continue to call it the right thing to do and may the spineless rinos who cave to the pressure from the media and the morons of this country suffer the hardest when this house finally blows over.

preallocated on October 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM

They could have taken a far more sensible position and kept it. Imagine how the dems misplayed in the beginning with the GOP just holding to delaying the mandate and device tax. The entirety of the democrats ammunition would have been gone. But damn if Lee and Cruz weren’t going to have their stupid moment in the sun.

Zaggs on October 15, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Imo, thats playing the same old game with the same old rules that have gotten us where we are. Its a rigged game in which neither side of the established elites never really lose anything. They just “Guffhaw..guffhaw”..back and forth, jockeying for their turn at the expense of the good of the people who pay for every single thing they are amused at trying.
Time for a real change. Serve the people or go to hell.

Mimzey on October 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Obama’s position is so strengthened now that he is promising to veto the Vitter amendment.

After the Syria fiasco, Obama was down for the count. Instead, Cruz and the legislatively inept Tea Party have given Obama an entire new lease on life.

The fight needed to be over the DL, not the CR. We had public opnion w us on the DL. We could have gotten Vitter and other concessions, and now we have secured nothing but blame for a needless shutdown.

I support Tea Party objectives but their tactics are juvenile and asinine. This has nothing to do w being MSNBC shills. It’s about being sensible and dealing w reality.

matthew8787 on October 15, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Priceless:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said he was “proud” of Boehner’s handling of the crisis. Then within moments he pleaded with Democrats to bail out the GOP, which he admitted has “screwed up” and “really did go too far” in the shutdown and debt limit standoffs.

“We won’t be the last political party to overplay our hand,” he said. “It might happen one day on the Democratic side. And if it did, would Republicans, for the good of the country, kinda give a little? We really did go too far. We screwed up. But their response is making things worse, not better.”

We must bomb Syria…and Iran…and Somalia…and Yemen…and Libya…and maybe Egypt, too.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Somewhere A Village Has Lost Its Idiot luvs him sum Senator Scarlett McBombyPants.

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 8:04 PM

How long do you think that can last?

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Forever. As the old saying goes, “if something can’t go on forever, it will anyway.” Or something. I might have messed that up.

besser tot als rot on October 15, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Poor Bishop. No more money for guns and porn.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Don’t know about Bishop, but a lot of folks made sure they had enough guns and porn over the last few years. Well, not porn necessarily, but plenty of ammo. How about you?

Midas on October 15, 2013 at 8:06 PM

WaPo: Americans Not Too Worried About Debt Ceiling Lapse

Resist We Much

I thought they were all LIV idiots? That reassures you?

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Midas

I’ll be fine. Don’t worry your cognitively dissonant little head ’bout me.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:08 PM

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Gee. It’s almost like “Obama” hasn’t been president for the last 5 1/2 years. What a shockah.

Trolls can’t do reality very well. Who YOU gonna blame? ATM machines? Hurricanes?

/heh

Key West Reader on October 15, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Funny comments. If Cruz hadn’t given that speech we would really have Obama in the cross hairs./s

Wigglesworth on October 15, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Happy Nomad, Boehner said from day 1 he won’t allow a default, technical or otherwise.

If GOP doesn’t find immediate consensus overnight, Boehner will take up the Senate bill and pass it w both GOP and Dem votes.

As he should.

matthew8787 on October 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Such morons. “But . . . but, but . . . it’s Obama’s fault!” A global stock market crash, recession, collapse in money market funds, a run on the banks, bank failures, and zero lending. It will make 2008 look like a bump in the road.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Obama said that he would veto a DL increase that simply demands that Error404Care be implemented as it was written relative to Congress.

Everyone will suffer, including me, but it will give me a certain grim satisfaction to know that you tools will be hurt as well. Poor Bishop. No more money for guns and porn.

I won’t suffer, but knowing that you will sort of makes me want the pain to rain…hard.

Loving seeing your comrade over at the Daily Kooks suffering over his insurance.

Yeah, I told him so.

Does anyone have any salt?

I’ve heard that it makes a wonderful salve for wounds.

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 8:10 PM

The fight needed to be over the DL, not the CR. We had public opnion w us on the DL. We could have gotten Vitter and other concessions, and now we have secured nothing but blame for a needless shutdown.

matthew8787 on October 15, 2013 at 8:04 PM

This is delusional. The GOP is losing so badly on the CR because they telegraphed that they didn’t want the fight and that they would surrender as quickly as they could. Indeed, they tried to surrender, but the Democrats won’t even let them because they want more than surrender, they want humiliation (i.e., spending increases). If the CR was bad, the DL is worse. The Democrats know that the GOP is terrified of the DL and won’t let us hit it if it is at all possible. We’re going to see the same here. The GOP is probably going to end up with a bill that is worse than a “clean” DL increase.

besser tot als rot on October 15, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Key West Reader

You.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Happy Nomad, Boehner said from day 1 he won’t allow a default, technical or otherwise.

matthew8787 on October 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Exactly. So – how you expect that he could have gotten concessions out of the Democrats on the debt limit is really beyond me.

besser tot als rot on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Cruz and company gave the dems every piece of ammunition they needed.

Zaggs

Yeah, you’re right. If not for Cruz and Lee, the democrats would have had no choice but to deal with this issue honestly and honorably just like they have with every other issue.

Pffft.

The existence of the republican party gives them all the ammunition they need. Unlike republicans however, they’re willing to use it.

Can anybody say with any intellectual honesty that Cruz has learned from this?

RINOKing

He’s learned that while there are plenty of RINOs who never saw a fight worth fighting for, there is only one RINOKing.

And all of that could’ve happened with the GOP starting and standing with a year delay in the mandate and medical device tax repeal.

Zaggs

You mean the delay and the tax repeal idea they are abandoning right now? Besides, the House has no power, remember? How are they gonna force Obama to sign off on either of these when they have no power?

Obama would have never signed off on the delay. Cruz and Lee layed down their markers. They will cash those chips in due time.

can_con

Not to mention there likely never even would have been a plan to delay in the first place if not for Cruz and Lee.

xblade on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

I won’t suffer, but

Do you have a family? A bank account? A job? Buy gas? Have kids?

You’ll hurt, don’t worry.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

BHO wants to take control of the economy and the PRIC’s (progressive republicans in congress) are now giving him that control. We the people are now being screwed … I sure hope you enjoy it … cuz you’ll soon be hurting (big time) from this Obamanation … love and no kisses.

ORrighty on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

This is just stupid. All this fear mongering and noise. The US is not going to default. Anyone who even thinks so needs to have their head checked. Obama is not going to be the first president to let this country fall into default. Secondly, you all can talk about the stock market but we have 20% unemployment people are so poor the stock market tanking will have no effect on them. As for business loans, have you seen what banks are charging for a loan even with a business that has excellent credit?

OliverB on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Oh, I promise I won’t lose any sleep over what happens to you at all. :)

Midas on October 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

I thought they were all LIV idiots? That reassures you?

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Do you default on your credit card if you make the minimum payment?

No.

The Feds take in around $250 billion per month and the debt service is less than 10% of that.

If the US defaults, it will be wholly because Obama wants it. He is required by Federal law to pay debt service FIRST. If he chooses not to do so, it will be on him.

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Do you have a family? A bank account? A job? Buy gas? Have kids?

You’ll hurt, don’t worry.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Like I said, I won’t hurt.

Some of us are a lot smarter than you.

Resist We Much on October 15, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Imo, thats playing the same old game with the same old rules that have gotten us where we are. Its a rigged game in which neither side of the established elites never really lose anything. They just “Guffhaw..guffhaw”..back and forth, jockeying for their turn at the expense of the good of the people who pay for every single thing they are amused at trying.
Time for a real change. Serve the people or go to hell.

Mimzey on October 15, 2013 at 8:03 PM

That’s why they all need to be overthrown in 2014. Every last RINO has got to go along with their “fellows” with their smoking jackets, cigars, brandy, fine wines and kobe beef.

/Just don’t tell Michelle – she’s likely to throw another one of her famous “hongryfits”. And we don’t want that. Please. Not another “hongryfit”

Key West Reader on October 15, 2013 at 8:13 PM

I’m done trying to water down the pain…let America feel the full punishment of the liberal, progressive agenda and vision for America.

When people freak out the Dems will own it all without any Republican finger prints on it at all! And maybe they can explain how they weren’t prepared, had to wait till it was passed to see what was in it, and exempted themselves from it…

nextgen_repub on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

You’ll hurt, don’t worry.

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM

So will you, champ. So will you. :)

Midas on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Happy Nomad, Boehner said from day 1 he won’t allow a default, technical or otherwise.

…Boehner will take up the Senate bill and pass it w both GOP and Dem votes.

As he should.

matthew8787 on October 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

So you’re saying that he is an honest politician who’s word you can take as principled and unwavering?
Which other politicians fit that criteria, in your opinion?

Mimzey on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Shutdown number of the day – $83,990,000
by steveegg @ 12:56. Filed under Politics – National.

That is the amount of money the Treasury Department will need to come up with on Default Day, October 17, to fully-service the $120 billion in short-term Treasury bills that come due that day, assuming a successful rollover of that debt.

Here are the amounts of federal tax deposits from, in order, 10/16/2012, 10/17/2012, and 10/18/2012 – $8,148,000,000, $6,751,000,000, and $1,980,000,000. Surely Treasury Secretary Jack Lew can’t be serious when he says he might not be able to come up with the cash to service that “pitiful” (in federal government terms) interest amount.

There’s another $40 million in interest coming due next week Thursday, and $5.1 billion at the end of the month, which is less than what the federal government took in on two of the three days mentioned above. Even the $56 billion in interest due to be paid out on 11/15 is less than a third of what came into the coffers last November.

In short, the only way there is an “interest-only” default in the near-future is if President Barack Obama and Lew order one. The bad news is, if they do order one, that opens the door to either a default on principal as investors refuse to reinvest in Treasury securities or hyperinflation as the Federal Reserve soaks up what isn’t bought by private and foreign interests. I’m not convinced that isn’t their goal.

http://norunnyeggs.com/

Axe on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

The US is not going to default.

Patriot! Don’t lose your nerve now!

Heehehhheee

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

I thought they were all LIV idiots? That reassures you?

lostmotherland on October 15, 2013 at 8:07 PM

They are – so if the little lemmings haven’t been force fed what to think by the media, they don’t know what they’re supposed to think. Which can make it easier for spineless politicians to do something.

besser tot als rot on October 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Pass a CR with Marxist Care defunding. And then head home while sending it to the Marxist telling them to take it or leave it. Then let it burn.

bgibbs1000 on October 15, 2013 at 8:15 PM

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