Gallup: Desire for third party reaches new high

posted at 10:41 am on October 11, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The standoff in Washington has generated a groundswell of anger and disgust, but it’s not helping out either of the two political parties, at least not according to Gallup.  Satisfaction with the two-party system has dropped to its lowest level ever, and 60% of respondents want a third major party to emerge:

Amid the government shutdown, 60% of Americans say the Democratic and Republicans parties do such a poor job of representing the American people that a third major party is needed. That is the highest Gallup has measured in the 10-year history of this question. A new low of 26% believe the two major parties adequately represent Americans.

The results are consistent with Gallup’s finding of more negative opinions of both parties since the shutdown began, including a new low favorable rating for the Republican Party, and Americans’ widespread dissatisfaction with the way the nation is being governed.

It’s no big surprise to see independents leading this push.  In the ten years of polling on this question, there has always been a majority of independents who want a third party.  They likely see themselves as under-represented, even though both parties usually spend hundreds of millions of dollars to woo them.  Now, though, a majority of Republicans (52%) and nearly a majority of Democrats (49%) feel the same way.

That raises significant questions about who the two major parties serve, as did an earlier poll this week from Gallup.  The media take-away on that survey was the plummeting favorables of the GOP, down to its lowest level in 20 years at 28%. Less noted was the decline in favorables for Democrats as well; at 43%, they’re just two points above their record low in 2010, when the Tea Party arose and Democrats ended up losing 68 seats in the House.

Clearly, the disenchantment with political parties is more complex than just Republican disarray.

With that said, this seems more like a reaction than a really well-considered option.  First, exactly what would a third party add to the current situation except more ambiguity?  The third party isn’t likely to be more conservative; either it will consist of voters in the center who aggregate in reaction to the ideologues in both parties, or one party’s ideological base will split and the party will absorb the centrists.  Adding a third pole to these discussions will make them more complicated, not less.

Second, we already have alternate parties. In fact, we have a number of them — but they rarely gain any traction, as voters tend to realize that they need to work within the two-party system to gain any headway on policy.  Here in Minnesota, for example, we have the Independence Party, which usually fields candidates up and down the ballot. They’ve won one major race: Jesse Ventura’s gubernatorial victory in 1998.  Other than that, they just play spoiler, and even in that sense their impact is fading.  They hold zero seats in the legislature in this session, and I’m unaware of any legislative wins in recent elections, or at all.

Does this mean we will never have a true third party emerge? I wouldn’t assume that, not with dissatisfaction this high.  But if it does, it may take a very long time before it has any real positive impact on politics, and it’s just as likely to be negative as positive.


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But, if what was said above is true, UDT became the SEALs, which is sort of like what happened to the OSS. It became the CIA.

I don’t consider Ventura an honourable person.

Resist We Much on October 11, 2013 at 11:45 AM

No. Both existed during Vietnam. Different NEC, more training, more dangerous missions. They were later combined, in the 80s, or in other words, UDT was discontinued. Ventura is claiming to be a member of an elite special forces group. He was not.

Fenris on October 11, 2013 at 11:50 AM

A third party is probably a stupid idea, unless we alter our system of government to make it proportional representation like the Brits have. But whatever. Independents won’t be happy with a “third party” either, because no one gets exactly what they want out of any political party.

I think a far better idea is to DO AWAY with political parties altogether!

mountainaires on October 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM

I’m sure some people will not like this, but it seems to me we already have a potential third party that already has electoral success – the TEA Party.
Why couldn’t the TEA Party either take over the GOP and steer it in the right direction, as Cruz and others seem to be trying to do?
Or if that doesn’t work, make the TEA Party an official entity – which I don’t think it really is right now – at least not an official political party.

OK – fire at will….

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM

After the election of Obama, not once but twice, I’ll believe anything.

RdLake on October 11, 2013 at 11:57 AM

There are different types of third parties, and the American experience has been of two types:

1) The splinter group or charismatically created party. These, at best, become one or two issue organizations and have limited appeal as they don’t have any real idea beyond one or two issues on what it takes to govern. The Libertarian Party gets itself painted as the pro-marijuana party because they never push a fiscal agenda to limit government and allow expanded liberty for the individual. Thus, caught in dead-ends created by the MFM they self-marginalize. Outside of those the Perot, Buchanan and TR sorts of parties are ones that aren’t meant to last long, and serve as a vehicle for an individual. This, too, is a limited issue appeal type of party and they typically evaporate after a campaign or two. The earnest ideologue parties also fit here. Communists, socialists and various parties with a charismatic figure that doesn’t run for anything. Mostly these are on the Left of the spectrum and their ideology doesn’t stand up to any real world applications, thus limiting their appeal.

2) The divided major party in which the actual party dies as a new one sucks up its membership, standing for something the old party couldn’t ever figure out how to back. These were the Whigs and the Republicans replaced them in two election cycles. That is a very short period of time for the 1850′s to 1860′s. The old Federalist party died out having members go to the Democratic Party and Whig party, leaving no successors. In some ways the Federalists fit closer in 1 as an ideological party that represented a number of the Founders and Framers, but couldn’t handle actual politics.

3) This is the untried path in US politics and we have no representatives of it: the Kingmaker Party. This is a third party that has a solid base and representation, but relative minory status at 20-30% of the public, and sometimes even into the high teens, but not below 15%. Kingmaker Parties are so named as they thwart two larger parties from getting a majority and their purpose is to act as a governor on the other two parties and to move their agenda forward by serving as a bottleneck to getting anything done. With two major parties that can’t get along, the Kingmaker then weilds power in the indirect fashion by forcing major concessions on anything just to get basic functions of government going. Back in the day when Royal Families were at each other’s throats, the Kingmakers were those that weren’t of either faction but had their own backing that was compact and dedicated, and without them you couldn’t make it to the top… and if you crossed them they quickly started thwarting everything of those they once supported.

American politics devolves to two parties for various reasons, and that is both a strength, in that truly marginal realms of political thought tend to remain on the margins, and a weakness in that the two parties tend to become homogenized and mutually corrupt if in different venues. Wiping out one party by division on an issue that the party leadership can’t figure out how to actually support undid the Whigs and the current leadership of the Republican Party seem to be following that lead. There is still an opportunity to reform the Republican Party by its State Parties, and that is the route the Tea Party was told to go down and they did. Yet corrupt State level leadership is a problem because of the centralized corruption of the RNC which should just be a minor advisory and coordinating group, not a party leadership organization. If the leadership at State level can’t be replaced quickly enough to start demanding a new internal structure, then the Republican Party will lose its internal structure, just as the Whigs did.

Are we ready for a Third Party? If it comes it will be one to step out of the grave of the Republican Party and if it has values of fiscal conservatism and small government that concentrates on local concerns, then the party structure of the new party will have a very weak central group and a very strong set of State groups. That sounds like a good party, actually.

ajacksonian on October 11, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Why couldn’t the TEA Party either take over the GOP and steer it in the right direction, as Cruz and others seem to be trying to do?

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Money.

ElectricPhase on October 11, 2013 at 12:00 PM

I that picture “Riff Raff” from the movie “Rocky Horror Picture Show”? He’s gained weight. Tim Currey has held up a lot better.

iurockhead on October 11, 2013 at 12:01 PM

This isn’t that difficult really. I was first registered as Republican, then Independent and now I am considering seriously to unregister to become a genuine disenfranchise voter.

Let me give two examples: Obamacare and gay marriage. Obamacare was passed through trickery by the US congress (I am sure most readers here know what happened so I am not repeating it). Then you say, well, there is a so called “conservative majority” at the SCOTUS, surely they’ll stop it. Well, no, all it took was a 2 month campaign of bullying by the liberal elites to have John Roberts cave in. The excuse, it would have been “unprecedented” to undo a law passed by congress. Which takes me to the next point.

DOMA. If Obamacare was legitimate, then what was DOMA? It was passed by veto proof majorities on both houses of Congress. Clinton enthusiastically signed it. Again there supposedly was a “conservative” majority at the SCOTUS. Final result: the will of the voters was nullified by a 5 thugs.

So, no, I am not buying the canard of “representative” government. It is a government by the elites for the elites. If you happen to be part of them -or agree with their views-, good for you. If you happen to disagree, even if your view has won elections, it doesn’t matter, the elites will make sure your view doesn’t count.

I am sure others will find similar issues where the same happened (the other obvious example is Roe v Wade).

p_incorrect on October 11, 2013 at 12:03 PM

Are we ready for a Third Party? If it comes it will be one to step out of the grave of the Republican Party and if it has values of fiscal conservatism and small government that concentrates on local concerns, then the party structure of the new party will have a very weak central group and a very strong set of State groups. That sounds like a good party, actually.

ajacksonian on October 11, 2013 at 11:58 AM

On a limited basis, that’s already happening, though the better-run of the state GOP parties aren’t giving up on the Republican name just yet.

Steve Eggleston on October 11, 2013 at 12:05 PM

I’m sure some people will not like this, but it seems to me we already have a potential third party that already has electoral success – the TEA Party.
Why couldn’t the TEA Party either take over the GOP and steer it in the right direction, as Cruz and others seem to be trying to do?

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM

My sentiments exactly. The Tea Party rises up again, in spite of the IRS, and takes over the GOPe. Then we will get somewhere.

Mirimichi on October 11, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Big government and the 2 party system go hand in hand. One feeds the other and the 2 major parties have structured things in such a way as to insure their continued electoral dominance. The electorate then becomes like a battered spouse staying because the alternative is worse. Meanwhile the 2 parties have zero incentive to reform the electoral systems on any level because those systems work for them.

How many signatures needed even to get on a ballot for Congress in a district? And no one stops to think why signatures should even be necessary. Why are party names listed on ballots? Because it favors the existing major parties. Who makes the rules about who gets free airtime, etc.? The current major parties. It is a tremendous racket.

theblackcommenter on October 11, 2013 at 12:11 PM

We should have a poll on current reader political party registration here at Hot Air. I bet the results would be interesting.

weaselyone on October 11, 2013 at 12:11 PM

I think a far better idea is to DO AWAY with political parties altogether!

mountainaires on October 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Political parties are not even Constitutional entities in the American Republic. In the rest of the world, the party is the fundamental political entity but in America the individual is the fundamental political entity. Parties just don’t exist in our Constitutio.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 11, 2013 at 12:12 PM

Why couldn’t the TEA Party either take over the GOP and steer it in the right direction, as Cruz and others seem to be trying to do?
Or if that doesn’t work, make the TEA Party an official entity – which I don’t think it really is right now – at least not an official political party.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM

If Tea Party conservatives split right now, they’d end up marginalizing themselves immediately and lose all influence over national-level issues and campaigns. No, the trick is to persuade or push the GOP to a more conservative direction. As you noted, Cruz and others are doing just that, with mixed results so far. If a concerted push to the right means some borderline Republicans such as John McCain and David Frum will fall into the waiting arms of the Democrats, so be it.

However, if the GOP Establishment cannot be moved and the pro-open borders big money donors who exert such undue influence the Establishment continue to dismiss or outright attack the conservative base, then a split will become inevitable. When the Whigs fell apart, prominent former Whigs such as Lincoln and Fremont gravitated to the newly formed Republican Party. A nascent third party would need to attract such people today. Without nationally recognized leaders, it would go nowhere fast.

Lastly, ‘Tea Party’ won’t do for a name. For one thing, the initial Tea Party was itself a precursor, a beginning, and that’s what the name connotes. It isn’t euphonic or mnemonic or easy to use as a means of political self-identification, either. And then, of course, there’s the ‘extremist’ label now indelibly branded onto the name, thanks to the MSM.

I advocate the ‘new DEMOCRATIC Party’ for reasons outlined earlier; or failing that, The New American Revolutionary Party, which would retain a connection to the Founders.

troyriser_gopftw on October 11, 2013 at 12:13 PM

ajacksonian on October 11, 2013 at 11:58 AM

This and this

_incorrect on October 11, 2013 at 12:03 PM

AH_C on October 11, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Third parties have proven to subvert democratic selection of candidates. As we saw in 1992, a third party (Perot) split off enough conservative votes from the Republican ticket to result in the perverse result of electing a liberal (Clinton). In 2000, the same happened in reverse, as Nader split off enough liberal votes to result in the election of Bush.

Instant Runoff Voting, used in Australia and elsewhere, corrects this problem:

http://accuratedemocracy.com/c_irv.htm
http://www.fairvote.org/?page=185

Ed, please promote this idea! After all, you have so much free time now since you dropped the Obamateurism of the Day features.

Sowell Disciple on October 11, 2013 at 12:20 PM

I think the 60% should read Levin’s new book, ‘The Liberty Amendments.” Any third party is going to ‘Go Washington’ eventually. Let’s try an end-around using our state’s legislatures as Levin has suggested. Obviously, mine’s horrific (Massachusetts,) but there are already more red legislatures than blue out there. We start flooding our campaign dollars into some of these purple states, who knows where this could go?

If this fails, there’s always the nuclear option (secession,) but we’d be foolish not to try to work within the Constitution’s existing framework first. Our Founders knew this day might come, and left us the tools to combat it.

CaptFlood on October 11, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Why couldn’t the TEA Party either take over the GOP and steer it in the right direction, as Cruz and others seem to be trying to do?
Or if that doesn’t work, make the TEA Party an official entity – which I don’t think it really is right now – at least not an official political party.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Eextreme socialists and progressives have not started their own party, they have simply taken over the Democratic party. Conservatives/Tea Partiers are attempting to do the same with the GOP.

The main difference is that the media hasn’t endlessly harassed the extremists who have pushed the democrat party further left, they have been too busy calling tea party members racists.

weaselyone on October 11, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Has anyone else noticed that Monday 14 October is a paid Federal Holiday to honor a slave trader that never set foot on the North American Content, killed thousands of Natives and it is being celebrated in the middle of a Federal shutdown and two days before default on all government payments.
Our Government is just so Grand and Benevolent. Time for them to go.

jpcpt03 on October 11, 2013 at 12:26 PM

The current major parties. It is a tremendous racket.

theblackcommenter on October 11, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Exactly – and they should all be tried on conspiracy and racketeering charges.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Be careful what you wish for.

You’re kidding, right?

I’ll just go ahead and quote Clark Griswold -

“Worse? How could it get any worse?! Take a look around you Ellen, we’re at the threshold of Hell!”

Could a third (fourth, fifth) party deliver people worse that Barry o, Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi?

Give me an sub-moron that can’t find their way to D.C. and keep the incompetents with delusions of genius and aspirations to control every action.

I’ll make you a deal – no third party, so long as you get rid of the Republicans and allow a new, second party to arise. Problem solved. Wadda ya say?

Saltyron on October 11, 2013 at 12:33 PM

I advocate the ‘new DEMOCRATIC Party’ for reasons outlined earlier; or failing that, The New American Revolutionary Party, which would retain a connection to the Founders.

troyriser_gopftw on October 11, 2013 at 12:13 PM

I personally favor a true “Constitution Party” – or something along that line.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Atheist update in 3 … 2 … 1 …

Eph on October 11, 2013 at 12:39 PM

Lacking infrastructure, third parties live or die according to the appeal of a single figure. What happened to Perot’s party (what was it called?) after Perot flamed out? But the Tea Party is avoiding this; it is building an infrastructure. The phenonomenon today is that the interest in a third party is equalled by profound disgust with the existing establishment, a shared conviction that the establishment is both responsible for our problems and completely incapable of solving them. There has been dissatisfaction in the past, but not this degree of disgust and conviction. People are not drawn to a third party because of some compelling figure, but for deeper and less transient reasons.

rrpjr on October 11, 2013 at 12:39 PM

Has anyone else noticed that Monday 14 October is a paid Federal Holiday to honor a slave trader that never set foot on the North American Content, killed thousands of Natives and it is being celebrated in the middle of a Federal shutdown and two days before default on all government payments.
Our Government is just so Grand and Benevolent. Time for them to go.

jpcpt03 on October 11, 2013 at 12:26 PM

OK – I’ll bring my response over from the other thread as well…..

Columus Day is, in my view, the perfect federal holiday.
It celebrates a foreigner who didn’t know where he was going when he took off, didn’t know where he was when he got there, didn’t know where he had been once he got back, and did it all with someone else’s money.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 12:29 PM

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 12:41 PM

I’m sure some people will not like this, but it seems to me we already have a potential third party that already has electoral success – the TEA Party.
Why couldn’t the TEA Party either take over the GOP and steer it in the right direction, as Cruz and others seem to be trying to do?
Or if that doesn’t work, make the TEA Party an official entity – which I don’t think it really is right now – at least not an official political party.

OK – fire at will….

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM

This is pretty much the road the Reform Party did in Canada. After the collapse of the PC (Canada’s equivalent to the GOP) The Reform party (more conservative than the PC)formed a conservative alliance which eventually brought in the PC to form the Conservative Party of Canada. They are now the majority government.

neuquenguy on October 11, 2013 at 12:41 PM

The problem is, everyone has a different idea about what they want a 3rd Party to look like.

Whenever I see a “Constitution-type” 3rd party, usually it’s SoCon Theocrat nonsense that goes off the scale. And while I relate to many parts of the Libertarian Party, I have strong disagreements with parts like their stance on open borders.

What I’d like to see is a GOP that’s more “agnostic” on hot button social issues like abortion and homosexuality and more focused on liberty. But it needs to be a Party that’s actually interested in winning elections and not just an exercise in ideological purity.

We’re much better off reforming the GOP than starting a 3rd Party, and a lot of our problems is we have a “politician class” that doesn’t really care about anything except themselves. A new party name is not going to change that.

BradTank on October 11, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Couldn’t you find a different picture of ventura. He discredits the Navy Seals when he wears that shirt.

crosshugger on October 11, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Has anyone else noticed that Monday 14 October is a paid Federal Holiday to honor a slave trader

So what? Stop with the leftist idiocy. The whole world traded slaves – most especially Africa and the muslim world (both of which still have slaves to this day).

that never set foot on the North American Content,

He discovered the New World and allowed for something as great as the idea of America to even have a place to be birthed and implemented.

killed thousands of Natives

Not as many as the Aztecs and other natives did. Stop crying like an idiot.

and it is being celebrated in the middle of a Federal shutdown

It’s a federal holiday. Get over it.

and two days before default on all government payments.

jpcpt03 on October 11, 2013 at 12:26 PM

That’s just retarded. Man, you are an idiot.

It celebrates a foreigner who didn’t know where he was going when he took off, didn’t know where he was when he got there, didn’t know where he had been once he got back, and did it all with someone else’s money.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 12:29 PM

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Yeah … that’s all funny, but Columbus was one of the most important people in history. Penicillin was discovered in much the same way but that doesn’t take away from the achievement or the genius of Fleming. Columbus is more than worthy of a federal holiday.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 11, 2013 at 12:54 PM

And after the marxist dictates terms of the GOPs surrender demands for a 3rd or new party will go higher. But it won’t matter by then because the transformation of the country will be complete and no new political party will be able to reverse it.

bgibbs1000 on October 11, 2013 at 12:58 PM

BradTank on October 11, 2013 at 12:47 PM

I’m not a big advocate of a third party split from the GOP, largely because it would entail years in the political wilderness while the Democrats veer off to their farthest extremes, and who knows where that would lead?

However, your dismissal of socially conservative issues is misplaced, at best. I don’t think opposition to ninth-month moment of birth is an extreme position, nor do I think promotion of policies that encourage the formation and perpetuation of traditional nuclear families is ‘off-the-scale’. Remember: slavery was largely a social issue, at least in the North, and opposition to it formed the nucleus of the Republican Party. No doubt the Whigs employed the same note of contempt when they dismissed slavery as not an issue worth fighting for.

We’re confronted by a neo-Marxist takeover of the federal government and the radical transformation of the United States from a free market-based Republic to an authoritarian, quasi-eurostyle ‘social democracy’–one I guarantee won’t social for very long, and democratic for even less than that. Either we step up and confront this or we concede the field. Whatever political party or entity fights the destruction of the Republic, I’ll get behind, whatever it chooses to call itself.

troyriser_gopftw on October 11, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Sorry: ‘ninth-month moment of birth abortion’.

troyriser_gopftw on October 11, 2013 at 1:00 PM

As we saw in 1992, a third party (Perot) split off enough conservative votes from the Republican ticket to result in the perverse result of electing a liberal (Clinton).

Sowell Disciple on October 11, 2013 at 12:20 PM

Perot would not have had nearly enough support to be a spoiler if the GOP had nominated a worthy candidate.

Dunedainn on October 11, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Freedom Party Now!

I’d even vote for Jesse Ventura before I’d vote for a Democrat or establishment Republican. There is zero chance I will vote for the latter two. But we can do a lot better than Jesse, unless there is a similar ticket I can support in ’16 I’m planning on writing in Cruz/Lee.

FloatingRock on October 11, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Has anyone else noticed that Monday 14 October is a paid Federal Holiday to honor a slave trader that never set foot on the North American Content, killed thousands of Natives and it is being celebrated in the middle of a Federal shutdown and two days before default on all government payments.
Our Government is just so Grand and Benevolent. Time for them to go.

jpcpt03 on October 11, 2013 at 12:26 PM

Boo-freaking-hoo.

M240H on October 11, 2013 at 1:04 PM

Yeah … that’s all funny, but Columbus was one of the most important people in history. Penicillin was discovered in much the same way but that doesn’t take away from the achievement or the genius of Fleming. Columbus is more than worthy of a federal holiday.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 11, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Yes – my post was a joke – more or less.
Many of our major discoveries have been by accident – at least not the result that was expected.
Unlike jpcpt03, assuming his post was serious (no sarc tag), I have no problems with Columbus, or the holiday.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 1:07 PM

“Waste of Time” doesn’t BEGIN to cover the USELESSNESS of this Post
Everyone who read the whole Post is STUPIDER for having read it!

williamg on October 11, 2013 at 1:09 PM

However, your dismissal of socially conservative issues is misplaced, at best.

troyriser_gopftw

I’m not saying people need to check their religious convictions, you can have strongly held convictions but the government doesn’t need to mirror God’s law.

Politicians are not going to lead a religious revival in this country.

Issues like homosexuality, divorce (which is much more deadly to the nuclear family than gays), out of wedlock children, birth control, etc are not going to be decided in the halls of Congress. These are issues we obssess over, but bureaucrats play little role in.

When politicians take up these issues, it alienates large swaths of people for no reason and only seems to empower socialists.

BradTank on October 11, 2013 at 1:13 PM

This isn’t that difficult really. I was first registered as Republican, then Independent and now I am considering seriously to unregister to become a genuine disenfranchise voter.

p_incorrect on October 11, 2013 at 12:03 PM

I don’t understand why you would consider that. You obviously are informed about major issues and have strong opinions about them. Your refusal to vote would have the same effect electorally as getting one more pro-Obama low-information voter to vote, which I doubt is your preferred result.

J.S.K. on October 11, 2013 at 1:15 PM

Yes – my post was a joke – more or less.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 1:07 PM

I figured it probably was. And it is funny, on its own. In serial with that drivel from jpcpt it came across a little bit toxic, though. But I treated his post differently than yours.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 11, 2013 at 1:19 PM

I figured it probably was. And it is funny, on its own. In serial with that drivel from jpcpt it came across a little bit toxic, though. But I treated his post differently than yours.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 11, 2013 at 1:19 PM

jpcpt03′s post looks like the politically correct (but factually incorrect) garbage the libtards are pushing in our schools these days.
I just chose to respond with a bit of humor.
My wife and I have had some major discussions with our boys over some of this garbage from the schools – like Columbus being a genocidal maniac. Despite what they push in the schools these days, Columbus was not the worst person in history – from ANY part of the world; and the natives of this hemisphere were NOT totally passive, peace-loving, love-your-enemies, coexist types either.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Be careful what you wish for.

Exactly. We don’t need more members of the political class, more players, more careerists. We need term limits. Thus we could eliminate the careerists, we could hold those in office accountable removing cronyism and corruption, restoring the mandate of the legislative branch and the executive branch to serve the interest of the electorate, rather than their own careers and the ambitions of their respective party.

thatsafactjack on October 11, 2013 at 1:34 PM

Amen brother Ed from another fellow Minnesotan

jlemieu1 on October 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Does this mean we will never have a true third party emerge? I wouldn’t assume that, not with dissatisfaction this high. But if it does, it may take a very long time before it has any real positive impact on politics, and it’s just as likely to be negative as positive.

Yes, a third party isn’t the answer. It would simply morph into the same as the existing parties. Liberalism has to be defeated as the dominant cultural philosophy of this country. A political party can’t do that. Unfortunately, the right-wing is too divided to come together over a cohesive philosophy to accomplish the task. Decline proceeds in this country with practically nothing to stop it.

rickv404 on October 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Yeah. The lefties prefer Aztecs cutting out beating hearts to those nasty Europeans who brought advancement and civilization to the Western Hemisphere. And the Indians got even on small pox by sending syphilis back to Europe. Not much mention of that in schools. And the “great plague” of tobacco that the left thinks is the worst evil to ever befall Man … thanks to the Indians, too. I wonder why they are never included in the lawsuits :)

The Small Pox thing is particularly strange, though, in that Europe had just, itself, recovered from a biological attack on themselves just a century and a half earlier when the Mongols had catapulted plague-infected bodies over the walls at Kaffa. The big difference, of course, is that European society reacted to the massive death toll of the Plague with the Renaissance … which sort of goes against the leftist theme for the New World.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM

You proudly voted for Obama.
Shut the eff up.
annoyinglittletwerp on October 11, 2013 at 11:05 AM

HondaV65 gave his legitimate reason for doing so, to force the wakeup call sooner than later. So he has every right to talk.

Had Mittness won, do you seriously think we would be at the 60% mark for calling for a 3rd party? No. He would have forced the conservatives to march in lockstep for better management of big govt, not for smaller govt. Much as Dubya did in twisting arms to support compassionate conservatism. Remember how Toomey got passed over for Snarlin Arlen. How would you like Mittness campaigning and actively twisting arms for Lindsey and other backstabbing RINOs come 2014 and 2016? No thanks. Why? Because Mittness would have been the head of the party and RNC.

Gee. Imagine what Reagan could have accomplished as leader of the party with the house/senate that Dubya had? Instead he had to deal with Tip O’Neill along with the Rockefeller GOPe.

AH_C on October 11, 2013 at 1:51 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Well, the libtards in this country do seem to focus their demonization entirely on white people in the Americas – as if no other part of the human race ever conquered other societies, engaged in slave-trade, tortured and murdered people, etc, etc – like say the Mongols, Romans, various Arab tribes (both North African and Middle Eastern), African tribes against each other, (as you indicated) the Aztecs as well as various North American Indian tribes – all extremely brutal with other people.

For that matter, look at what the Japanese did to the Chinese and Koreans (slavery, torture, and genocide) as recently as the 1930s and 40s, starting with their initial invasions, long before the US got involved WW2, and long after the US outlawed slavery.

dentarthurdent on October 11, 2013 at 1:57 PM

Why not a third party?

Of course, the only parties in American history which become viable and competitive have a strong basis at the state and local level first. It’s easy to wish for another choice – especially as long as it remains undefined and unmanned and voters can project upon its blank slate exactly the qualities they wish it had (like they did with Obama). There is a reason every politician runs worse against a generic opponent than one with a name and history.

It does seem a golden opportunity for those who continually complain about the Republican Party to pick up stakes and strike out on their own. After all, they have been threatening to do it for over 20 years, whining “betrayal!” at every imperfect outcome and trashing every leader the Party elects.

It’s their big chance to prove they mean business and aren’t just a bunch of pathetic losers on the fringe.

¡Vaya con Dios, amigos!

Adjoran on October 11, 2013 at 2:12 PM

I don’t understand why you would consider that. You obviously are informed about major issues and have strong opinions about them. Your refusal to vote would have the same effect electorally as getting one more pro-Obama low-information voter to vote, which I doubt is your preferred result.

J.S.K. on October 11, 2013 at 1:15 PM

Because again, being an informed voter vs being a non informed voter is irrelevant. The elites will ram through their ideas irrespective of the result of elections. So “smart voting” vs “non smart voting” doesn’t count.

Now, I am not saying for a second that we should abolish voting or get rid of judicial review. I AM NOT. I am just saying, that I take the system as it is and I understand that my ability to influence it is zero even if a majority of voters agrees with my views. I see the political system as something to be gamed (individual rights, judicial review, etc), not as something that can be influenced by way of voting. And to be clear, I prefer to live in a place where the idea is to game a representative republic than to game an absolute dictatorship :D.

The only option for those who want to really influence politics is to become part of the political elite. I do not have any intention whatsoever to do that because thanks God I have a very productive life with the gifts that God has given me.

p_incorrect on October 11, 2013 at 2:18 PM

Instant Runoff Voting, used in Australia and elsewhere, corrects this problem:

http://accuratedemocracy.com/c_irv.htm
http://www.fairvote.org/?page=185

Ed, please promote this idea! After all, you have so much free time now since you dropped the Obamateurism of the Day features.

Sowell Disciple on October 11, 2013 at 12:20 PM

This.

We sheeple have been hornswoogled into believing 3rd parties etc are incompatible with American politics. This is only because the politicians have rigged the system to keep it a two-party system, strengthening their power position (massive campaign funding etc) while robbing us of true respresentation.

AH_C on October 11, 2013 at 2:21 PM

but they rarely gain any traction, as voters tend to realize that they need to work within the two-party system to gain any headway on policy.

Gee Ed, I wonder why they never gain any traction? The big two work to keep them out in the states. Then when they work within the party, they’re treated as lepers who should shut up, sit down, and donate to the GOP “cause”.

See the handling of the tea party groups like Freedom Works and the ron paulites during the August 2012 Convention. That alone almost made me stay home in November.

Not seeing much change here. The parties work for themselves, government as a whole and those lobbyists who pay to play.

oryguncon on October 11, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Has anyone else noticed that Monday 14 October is a paid Federal Holiday to honor a slave trader that never set foot on the North American Content, killed thousands of Natives and it is being celebrated in the middle of a Federal shutdown and two days before default on all government payments.
Our Government is just so Grand and Benevolent. Time for them to go.

jpcpt03 on October 11, 2013 at 12:26 PM

Cry me a river, Nancy.

Solaratov on October 11, 2013 at 2:58 PM

Cruz – Palin 2016. Voting Republican is throwing away your credentials as a conservative.

12th Legion on October 11, 2013 at 3:45 PM

You proudly voted for Obama.
Shut the eff up.
annoyinglittletwerp on October 11, 2013 at 11:05 AM

HondaV65 gave his legitimate reason for doing so, to force the wakeup call sooner than later. So he has every right to talk.

Had Mittness won, do you seriously think we would be at the 60% mark for calling for a 3rd party? No. He would have forced the conservatives to march in lockstep for better management of big govt, not for smaller govt. Much as Dubya did in twisting arms to support compassionate conservatism. Remember how Toomey got passed over for Snarlin Arlen. How would you like Mittness campaigning and actively twisting arms for Lindsey and other backstabbing RINOs come 2014 and 2016? No thanks. Why? Because Mittness would have been the head of the party and RNC.

Gee. Imagine what Reagan could have accomplished as leader of the party with the house/senate that Dubya had? Instead he had to deal with Tip O’Neill along with the Rockefeller GOPe.

AH_C on October 11, 2013 at 1:51 PM

I don’t believe his ‘reasons’, I think he’s nothing more than a concern troll.

slickwillie2001 on October 11, 2013 at 4:28 PM

Would not at all be surprised to see the GOP lose the House in 2014,due to disaffected conservatives staying home.If that happens, we may see the rise of the Freedom Party which would then ultimately destroy the Gelded Old Party.Looking forward to it!

redware on October 11, 2013 at 5:12 PM

HondaV65 on October 11, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Disgrunted voters, behold your leader!

thebrokenrattle on October 11, 2013 at 8:15 PM

I don’t believe his ‘reasons’, I think he’s nothing more than a concern troll.

slickwillie2001 on October 11, 2013 at 4:28 PM

…I’m concerned…that he is!

KOOLAID2 on October 11, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Why you’d have to put a photo of a piece of shiite truther up?

annoyinglittletwerp on October 11, 2013 at 11:02 AM

Because that “piece of shiite truther” is the next big third party option for president, along with Michael Bloomber and I guess many of the 2012 third party candidates as well.

The Nerve on October 11, 2013 at 8:43 PM

The problem is that the socialists (read Democrats) are on the far left. The Republicans are in the middle. We need somebody to represent the far right. Hence, the Tea Party. At least with three tent poles we would see our side represented (which it isn’t really right now).

Theophile on October 11, 2013 at 9:09 PM

The far right has the Democratic party to go to; the horseshoe theory states that the far right and left have more in common than they do with the middle. Why not appeal to the most people?

thebrokenrattle on October 11, 2013 at 10:01 PM

I’m so sick of being accused of being a woman-hating bigot homophobe evangelical because I’m on the right. Its a stereotype that we will never be able to rid ourselves of as long as idiots like Todd Akin keep spouting off completely stupid crap and let the media latch themselves onto it and paint us with the biggest brush in their box.

What party to I belong to?

Defenestratus on October 11, 2013 at 10:50 AM

If I were to provide a complete inventory of my political beliefs from abortion to 2nd Amendment to economy and the rest, any sane person would know I am several steps to the right of center. But I will easily acknowledge that the GOP has a full squadron of apes in its tree. I always vote Republican. But as I am now in my middle 50s and no longer have the patience to believe the hysterical BS that is passed off as wisdom, I have to say there are figures on the political right that are an embarrassment to bipeds.

People like Todd Akin belong in a museum. You think Al Franken and Michael Moore are hilarious lying morons? Good. So do I. Now stop telling me Glenn Beck is any goddamned better. The man is as transparent as Oprah Winfrey. Fox News? Hot chicks, and it ends there. This is journalism? It’s disgusting. It’s a right wing version of Pravda. It’s no better than CNN.

Kenneth Lay and his b*stard cronies are convicted in a court of law and what does Niel “Fellate Wall Street” Cavuto have to say? “Let’s not rush to judgment. They may not be crooks. They may just be bunglers.” First words out of his mouth at the conviction. A pack of lying swine carved a hole through their own company while forbidding their employees to dump their own stock and Niel Cavuto gives them apologetics. You wonder why so many lefties are fed up with capitalism and embrace Barky and his Obamacare BS? It’s because this country tolerates outrageous behavior. Cavuto should have excoriated Kenneth Lay, sang hosannas at his conviction and wished pancreatic cancer on the SOB. Instead, he tries to paint the picture that Kenneth Lay, a man whose curriculum vitae would scare the spots off a leopard, somehow was in control of one of the world’s biggest energy companies by graduating from Harvard or the Wharton School with the doctoral thesis, “The effects of Whoopsie-Daisy on a Bifurcating Economy.”

Fox is ridiculous. It makes the right look ridiculous.

Defenestratus makes a very good point about politics today. The right and left have become so black and white, there’s no wiggle room left. The polarization is killing this country. And it is high time the right took a cold, hard look at itself and realized why so many people laugh at it.

I will never have anything to do with left politics. I am pro 2nd Amendment, anti abortion, pro military and the rest of it. But I am not an idiot, I think Duck Dynasty is nothing but a hillbilly Kardashians, and when I hear Republicans spewing their religious beliefs on the air, I cringe. They sound like tour guides at the Creationist Museum.

A third party? Bring it!

thejackal on October 12, 2013 at 1:06 AM

The Feds have created a morass with their self serving “The Party is Great”, The Party is Good”, “The Party can do no wrong”, “The Party must survive”.

Be most cautious with what the polls are in fact saying. Is it a desire for the rise of a third Party or the rise of a New party? What will keep the existing parties from repackaging them selves with a thin veneer of reform for “We The People” only to find out in 10-20 years that the same old two party flaws are still there only in a new rapper. If things do change, as they appear that they will, then what can “We The People” do to insure that it is a true change.

jpcpt03 on October 12, 2013 at 1:26 PM

There is nothing wrong with a two party system that a 3 party system will fix.

Consider this: Abortion. You either support it, or you don’t. Those positions are already taken, leaving no room for a third position.

Similarly, many issues we argue about constantly today have been reduced to binary positions, with no middle ground. With no room to maneuver, there is really no place for a third party to form.

The problem isn’t with the number of parties. The problem is with the ideology, which has also become polarized between conservative and lunacy.

BobMbx on October 12, 2013 at 1:45 PM

I will never have anything to do with left politics. I am pro 2nd Amendment, anti abortion, pro military and the rest of it. But I am not an idiot, I think Duck Dynasty is nothing but a hillbilly Kardashians, and when I hear Republicans spewing their religious beliefs on the air, I cringe. They sound like tour guides at the Creationist Museum.

A third party? Bring it!

thejackal on October 12, 2013 at 1:06 AM

I would suggest that our government has become a religion unto itself, as it “preaches” to the congregation about how to live their lives, and promises them punishment for failing to do so.

Amen.

BobMbx on October 12, 2013 at 1:50 PM

The democrat voters won’t go for a new party, because they derive too much power and accomplishment from the government worker Machine, they run and vote for their jobs and well being, even if they think voting for the libertarian who is for Free the Drugs is a cool idea. That leaves the republicans who don’t have a machine to vote their concience, vote their morals, vote their ideals, vote their pocketbook, vote their purity, vote for libertarians and Free the Drugs, and ends up with only republicans running to try the new party.

Duval Patrick won the MA gubernatorial with only 48% of the vote, not even a majority of people in the state voted for him, but republicans and independents thought it would be a statement (?!) to vote for Tim Cahill, formly Dem, conveniently Independent and “Pro Family”!!! to spoil the election. He got 10% and spoiled the possibility of a Charlie Baker republican win, because of the grumbling that the MA GOP isn’t pure enough. The democrats are not tricked into running after an independent candidate, they stick with their Machine. The one thing they do, is take the D off their name and say they are not enrolled in a party or they say they are independents.

Then Duval won, and raised the taxes, taxes on Business: a 6.5 tax on Technology services, hitting high tech right between the eyes, a Gas Tax that goes up with inflation so pols don’t ever have to vote for it again, and Duval went along with Obama care, ruining the deal we had for low income people here who had low cost health insurance, and letting them go to Medicaid like Obamacare dictates.

Charlie Baker, was a health corporation CEO, who would have looked for innovation, Duval swallowed Obama’s plan hook line and sinker.

Fleuries on October 13, 2013 at 4:19 PM

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