Senate GOP aide rips Boehner for offering clean, short-term debt-ceiling hike; Update: Obama would sign, says Carney

posted at 5:21 pm on October 10, 2013 by Allahpundit

Granted, it’s just an aide, but it’s an aide’s job to know what his boss and the other bosses in the Senate are thinking.

One of the lingering questions in Boehner’s offer earlier this afternoon would be whether he’d attach conditions, like spending cuts, to the debt-ceiling hike he’s proposed or whether it would be clean. Answer: Clean, in all likelihood. Heritage Action, the conservative PAC that’s been backing Cruz, Lee, and other tea partiers in the “defund ObamaCare” effort, said this afternoon that they won’t hold a vote for a clean debt-ceiling hike against any Republicans. You already know why if you read this post; it’s because they want to stay focused on O-Care, and right now the debt-ceiling fight is more of a hindrance to that than a help.

Until about 18 hours ago, it had been Republican orthodoxy on Capitol Hill to oppose any raising of the debt limit that did not also include provisions for spending restraint or some other form of fiscal discipline. The whole point of the 2011 debt limit negotiations — the talks that led to sequestration spending cuts — was to strengthen the precedent for requiring spending controls as part of any debt limit agreement…

“This is an idea that nobody would have associated with Republicans yesterday,” says a Senate GOP aide. “There isn’t a Republican in Congress who supported the idea of a clean debt limit increase without strings attached before yesterday.” Perhaps that’s an exaggeration — maybe there were a very few who would have supported such an idea — but the aide’s observations are generally accurate. They’re certainly true of some of the most influential Republicans in the Senate.

The aide pointed to the relatively small group of House lawmakers and outside groups who are most committed to targeting Obamacare, even at the price of a partial government shutdown. “It’s pretty obvious they are so invested in the shutdown strategy that they are willing to have an overnight conversion to the view that clean debt limit increases are somehow good policy,” the aide says. “That is heresy for a conservative, and yet they are swallowing it because they are so invested in this shutdown strategy working.”

The strategic somersaults through all of this can be confusing but the basic idea is simple. Two years ago, thanks to recession-era deficits and Paul Ryan’s prominence, reducing the debt was priority number one. Two years later, thanks to the rollout of the health-care exchanges and the emergence of Ted Cruz, stopping ObamaCare is priority number one. Lord knows those two priorities aren’t mutually exclusive, as Paul Ryan noted yesterday after he was attacked for pivoting back to entitlement reform instead of staying focused on O-Care, but tactically tea partiers are willing to cede ground on the former if it means strengthening their hand on the latter. Question, though: Does this strengthen their hand? One of the reasons Ryan gave yesterday when asked why he’d revert to deficit reduction now is because, quite simply, that’s where the action is. As unlikely as a grand (or less than grand) bargain is, it’s still likelier than Obama giving up crucial pieces of ObamaCare. If you want to accomplish something policy-wise from all this, you’re better off trying on tax reform or chained CPI — even though the latter would place the shutdown on a far less popular foot politically than fighting ObamaCare would.

Reid said this afternoon that, regardless of Boehner’s concession on the debt ceiling, there’ll be no negotiations on anything until the shutdown is over. A spokesman for Boehner, meanwhile, says there’s no chance he’ll pass a clean CR that’ll end the shutdown. So on we go. Like I said in the last post, I’m not sure why the “defund” caucus thinks a short-term debt-ceiling hike will force Boehner to negotiate the shutdown and debt ceiling separately, with shutdown discussions reserved exclusively for O-Care. It might create a little extra pressure, but if he decides it’s time to cave on the shutdown, he’ll almost certainly negotiate a longer debt-ceiling hike as part of it. After all, why cave twice when you can cave once? The only thing that could get him to really double down on O-Care, I think, is if the Healthcare.gov rollout somehow turns even more catastrophic than it’s been, with the political humiliation and risk of disaffection among the uninsured so great that Obama decides he has no choice but to delay the law for awhile. Hard to imagine how bad things would have to get to make him do that, but that’s the deus ex machina here if you’re looking for one.

Update: Carney says Obama will indeed sign a debt-ceiling hike even if the shutdown is still on. Your move, Dingy Harry.


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The GOP betrays you…again.

thatsafactjack on October 10, 2013 at 5:24 PM

Today’s betrayal… brought to you by the good folks of the GOP.

thatsafactjack on October 10, 2013 at 5:26 PM

I need a scorecard.

msupertas on October 10, 2013 at 5:26 PM

I can’t keep up with all their “nuances”.

What happened to principles?

freedomfirst on October 10, 2013 at 5:27 PM

Can’t keep up anymore. Head spinnin…..

msupertas on October 10, 2013 at 5:28 PM

Run for cover Whigs.

Bmore on October 10, 2013 at 5:28 PM

Carney says Obama will indeed sign a debt-ceiling hike even if the shutdown is still on.

Ofcourse he will sign it .
That way, he can destroy the country economically even more while spitting on our veterans and blaming TEA Party for it !

burrata on October 10, 2013 at 5:29 PM

Actually, I was being a little unfair with my previous posts.

It isn’t just the GOP that is betraying us.. it’s the entire political class.

This is just business as usual to them… another day on the Hill.

thatsafactjack on October 10, 2013 at 5:29 PM

“This is an idea that nobody would have associated with Republicans yesterday,” says a Senate GOP aide. “There isn’t a Republican in Congress who supported the idea of a clean debt limit increase without strings attached before yesterday.”

Peter King comes to mind.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:29 PM

In my State there is a modest penalty for not being registered as either R or D. I have always been registered R. No more.

Bmore on October 10, 2013 at 5:30 PM

So, what did Husse!n say to Boehner yesterday?
Will he say the same today to all the ‘pubs meeting with him right now? Should I expect some announcement tomorrow morning that Congress has been suspended/disbanded?

freedomfirst on October 10, 2013 at 5:30 PM

“There isn’t a Republican in Congress who supported the idea of a clean debt limit increase without strings attached before yesterday.”

That’s why the DL increase would be for a short amount of time only. They can’t hash out the ‘string’ by next week, so they give themselves some extra time.

I don’t see what’s so confusing about it.

BadgerHawk on October 10, 2013 at 5:30 PM

Can’t keep up anymore. Head spinnin…..

msupertas on October 10, 2013 at 5:28 PM

Mouth pukein…

msupertas on October 10, 2013 at 5:30 PM

Carney is insufferable.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on October 10, 2013 at 5:31 PM

So we lost again. Big surprise…

sandee on October 10, 2013 at 5:31 PM

Actually, I was being a little unfair with my previous posts.

It isn’t just the GOP that is betraying us.. it’s the entire political class.

This is just business as usual to them… another day on the Hill.

thatsafactjack on October 10, 2013 at 5:29 PM

Ace has an interesting post on the French Revolution…….

redguy on October 10, 2013 at 5:32 PM

How is a temporary deal in exchange for Obama agreeing to negotiate betrayal? The goal was to force Obama off his “red line” and to the table and squeeze, right?

rob verdi on October 10, 2013 at 5:32 PM

Carney is insufferable.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on October 10, 2013 at 5:31 PM

Ah, just wait until his time serving the king is done…..
Then it’s a book deal worth millions and a talk show on CNN……
What a doofus….

redguy on October 10, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Where have you gone, Newt Gingrich? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you. Boo hoo hoo.

Are there ANY GOP left that know how to fight & play hardball?

portlandon on October 10, 2013 at 5:37 PM

‘Clan of the Cave RINOs’

Pork-Chop on October 10, 2013 at 5:38 PM

I can’t keep up with all their “nuances”.

What happened to principles?

pay attention to Heritage. Like most in media Allah has no take other than to drive traffic. He not as reliably liberal but he’s got a job to do.

DanMan on October 10, 2013 at 5:38 PM

So what’s next, Boehner agreeing to perform oral sex on the Marxist if he’ll just agree to negotiate?

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:39 PM

Anybody who thought the GOP would NOT cave….well, no disresepct…is a FOOL

This Caving could be seen from Day 1…just like Rush said…Obama is at 37% and the GOP think they are losing…Idiots

LordMaximus on October 10, 2013 at 5:41 PM

We Are All Tea Partiers Now: Americans Say No to Debt Ceiling Increase

A new Fox News poll shows that a majority of American voters–58 percent–would vote “no” on raising the debt ceiling. Only 37 percent of American voters would vote to raise the debt ceiling.

An even bigger majority–62 percent–would only vote to raise the debt ceiling after “major cuts in government spending.”

Only one in four Americans–27 percent–says that it would be “reckless” even to debate not raising the debt ceiling.

The poll, conducted by a bipartisan team of polling firms surveying 952 registered voters on land lines and cell phones, was conducted on Oct. 1 and Oct. 2. The margin of error is 3 percent.

And, if a Fox poll is ‘propaganda,’ let’s try the Associated Press:

Only 30% say they support raising the limit.

During the 8 years of the irresponsible Bush administration, there were $5.365 trillion in debt ceiling increases. So far under the Obama administration, there have been $5.929 trillion in debt ceiling increases.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:42 PM

Anybody who thought the GOP would NOT cave….well, no disresepct…is a FOOL

This Caving could be seen from Day 1…just like Rush said…Obama is at 37% and the GOP think they are losing…Idiots

LordMaximus on October 10, 2013 at 5:41 PM

The democrat marxists pretending to be republicans have to convince the entire republican party to cave in order to save their Marxist dictator.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:44 PM

President becomes deadbeat… refuses to sign bill passed by Senate Democrats to fund Death Benefits for widows and orphans of U.S. Armed Forces… insists that Fisher House Foundation… a charity… continue to pick up the tab in his place.

thatsafactjack on October 10, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Actually, it is even worse. The Constitution does not permit the President to borrow money on the credit of the United States without congressional authorisation, which requires his signature.

Isn’t it that what he just did with Fisher House?

The Obama administration has agreed to reimburse Fisher House, which is, essentially, loaning the Federal government money.

Don’t get me wrong. I think this is an outrage and there should never have been any hesitation to pay the families of the fallen, but the process is wrong and, arguably, unconstitutional.

Both houses of Congress have voted unanimously for POMA and to pay the death benefits.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:45 PM

Daily Mail: 51000 complete O-Care applications in First Week; Nowhere near the pace to reach the 7 million necessary to keep O-care afloat…

Here’s a nice example of liberal math. They said the system they had in place was designed to handle 50,000/day. If it were running perfectly it would take two years to get the 35 million they claimed needed health insurance processed. So we are being told it handled 51,000/week. We’ll be there in 13 years. Reality is such a harsh on their mellow isn’t it?

And let’s get to the point. They want the entire nation to pass through this website eventually with the current estimate of about two years before private health insurance will be gone for the masses.

If it worked 10 times faster than it does now it will take about two years to process the national exchange for everybody.

DanMan on October 10, 2013 at 5:48 PM

Do you smell it????…….I do……..it’s called “The American Spring”.

If the Veterans march at the National Mall on Sunday with tear gas or such……

…..not going to be pretty.

PappyD61 on October 10, 2013 at 5:48 PM

….and they are MET with tear gas or such…..

iPad thingy. :-)

PappyD61 on October 10, 2013 at 5:50 PM

$634M divided by 30M uninsured=$21M per uninsured person. And that’s just for a crappy website.

txhsmom on October 10, 2013 at 5:50 PM

Politicians really suck.

Both sides.

jaime on October 10, 2013 at 5:50 PM

Seriously, this proposal being pushed in the Senate is insane.

The GOP is going to give Obama a medium to long term debt ceiling increase (the one things he’s actually afraid of) AND take the polling hit from the shutdown without achieving any significant policy goals, while furthering the intra-party conflict and showing that they’ll cave if the administration plays ball hard enough?

Arg.

BadgerHawk on October 10, 2013 at 5:52 PM

$634M divided by 30M uninsured=$21M per uninsured person. And that’s just for a crappy website.

txhsmom on October 10, 2013 at 5:50 PM

I can’t blame you for using DemMath. It’s so pervasive in politics.

However, it’s more like $21 per person. Which is still huge.

jaime on October 10, 2013 at 5:53 PM

o/t, but important news from ThinkProgress:

LA Police Dogs Are Racist!…

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Carney is insufferable.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on October 10, 2013 at 5:31 PM

You said it!

athenadelphi on October 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM

Bombshell :)

Lance Armstrong’s former fiancee Sheryl Crow reportedly told federal investigators about his doping.

She’s a rat.

faraway on October 10, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Probably why she’s his former fiancée.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM

However, it’s more like $21 per person. Which is still huge.

jaime on October 10, 2013 at 5:53 PM

How right you are.

txhsmom on October 10, 2013 at 5:56 PM

$634M divided by 1 signee = $634M per person.

ObamaMath

faraway on October 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Waitaminute…

How does this square with HA’s earlier post?

There’s only one offer from the Speaker on the table… where’d this other one come from?

And when?

CPT. Charles on October 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM

I’m failing to see how pushing the debt limit out 60 days to remove it from the table while keeping the government closed is a GOP betrayal? Seems like a shrewd move to me.

I honestly don’t know what the result of not raising the debt limit next week would be, but if the result was 2008-style market crash, it would only serve to distract from keeping Obama’s feet to the fire and perhaps work in Obama’s favor. The optics of the shutdown and the ACA debacle are now proving to be terrible for Obama. Why take the chance now that Obama and the Democrats are on the run because of the shutdown.

If there are too many moving pieces things could spiral out of control and who knows where we might end up. Keep it simple. Keep the government shutdown and defund/delay ACA. The debt limit can wait 60 days.

mpthompson on October 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM

The 29,999,999 people who are dumb enough to apply, see the premiums are too high, and refuse the coverage, will get IRS bills for thousands of dollars, based on the information they themselves submitted in the application.

That’s like loading yourself on the train. Idiots.

faraway on October 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM

$634M divided by 1 signee = $634M per person.

ObamaMath

faraway on October 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM

And that’s before they work out the bugs this month.

txhsmom on October 10, 2013 at 5:59 PM

Hey, anyone want to guess what is exactly 6 weeks from the 17th?

Perfect time for the GOP to stick us with a turkey while everyone is driving to granny’s.

crrr6 on October 10, 2013 at 6:01 PM

CPT. Charles on October 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM

This is the potential Senate proposal.

BadgerHawk on October 10, 2013 at 6:01 PM

Hey, anyone want to guess what is exactly 6 weeks from the 17th?

Perfect time for the GOP to stick us with a turkey while everyone is driving to granny’s.

crrr6 on October 10, 2013 at 6:01 PM

It’s also the 60th anniversary of JFK’s assassination.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Hey, Harry said there’d be no no negotiating. Then there’s nothing to talk about. Why bother? Put yer feet up and play Tetris on your mobile device of choice.

Dongemaharu on October 10, 2013 at 6:04 PM

That’s like loading yourself on the train. Idiots.

What a great analogy.

ctmom on October 10, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Bombshell :)

Lance Armstrong’s former fiancee Sheryl Crow reportedly told federal investigators about his doping.

She’s a rat.

faraway on October 10, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Poor, poor Lance – he deserved better, didn’t he? :)

Anti-Control on October 10, 2013 at 6:10 PM

Third Party … here we come!

Pork-Chop on October 10, 2013 at 6:10 PM

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:45 PM

Excellent point.

While you and I agree that this president is in violation of the law of the land, and has been repeatedly in violation during his tenure in office, the fact is that no one in congress is going to even attempt to hold him accountable and neither is the press.

This is why I keep commenting that our problem lies in the political class and the way the political class is designed to function, rather than one party or the other.

Of course the GOP wishes to find means to negotiate with Obama, rather than challenge his lawlessness. They are, one and all, members of the political class and Obama is class president.

Our problem is systemic. Corruption and cronyism are only symptoms of a flawed system. Term limits, two terms of four years each to be specific, would go a long way toward ending the collusion between members of the political class to serve their own interests rather than observing and preserving the law of the land, our constitution.

Men and women who aren’t trying to protect hopes of a very comfortable and lucrative lifelong career, who aren’t trying to protect membership in particular elitist political circles and social circles, who aren’t trying to keep their kids in the ‘right’ private schools in Washington DC until graduation… would be more inclined to challenge a president in violation of the constitution…and remember their oath of office and duty to their constituents.

thatsafactjack on October 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Latest report says Boehner has left today’s spitehouse mtg without addressing reporters.
Not sure if others are still there.
Apparently SENATE repubs will be at spitehouse mtg tomorrow.

pambi on October 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM

FWIW – The poll on DU asking “Do you support the GOP proposal of extending the debt ceiling for 6 weeks, keeping the govt closed?” is currently running 0 Yes 56 No and 2 waiting for talking points.

rw on October 10, 2013 at 6:16 PM

It’s also the 60th anniversary of JFK’s assassination.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:03 PM

50th. We here in Dallas are a little sensitive about the date. :)

txmomof6 on October 10, 2013 at 6:17 PM

Lance Armstrong’s former fiancee Sheryl Crow reportedly told federal investigators about his doping.

She’s a rat.

faraway on October 10, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Miss ‘One Sheet’ squealed on ‘The Doper’.
I guess Lance refused to share his stash with her.

Pork-Chop on October 10, 2013 at 6:18 PM

punting on debt ceiling for a few weeks is no big deal. Keep focus on obamacare and budget.

deploylinux on October 10, 2013 at 6:20 PM

Raising the debt limit doesn’t fund the government. This President has problems. I’d say he’s talked his way into a pickle.

bloomingayls on October 10, 2013 at 6:20 PM

until valerie signs off i am not buying it jay.

t8stlikchkn on October 10, 2013 at 6:26 PM

The only thing that could get him to really double down on O-Care, I think, is if the Healthcare.gov rollout somehow turns even more catastrophic than it’s been, with the political humiliation and risk of disaffection among the uninsured so great that Obama decides he has no choice but to delay the law for awhile. Hard to imagine how bad things would have to get to make him do that, but that’s the deus ex machina here if you’re looking for one.

Here’s the thing though–and this is why I think there may have been a pivot–O’Care has been such a disaster that it has taken on a life of its own. Boehner et al no longer need to champion its defunding. It is presenting a far better case for defunding/delay on its own. Let Obama get buried by reality, rather than be able to demagogue the because of “Republican obstructionism.” Take the defunding football out of his hands. And being able to make it look like a grand concession is even better.

If the ObamaCare roll-out is truly as apocalyptically pathetic as it appears to be, then all it needs is sunlight. The more exposure it gets, the worse it looks. And by proxy, Obama as well.

By being “magnanimous”, the Rs get to play hardball by demonstrating a real case of compromise. But they’re not really giving anything up.

So … the pivot. And they’ll have much firmer ground to stand on when they stand firm on entitlements. With http://www.healthcarewithunicorns.gov as Exhibit A for why the whole system needs to be reformed.

Now, I may be accusing the Rs of playing 3D Chess, when in fact they’re still learning how to play Checkers. That is unfortunately more likely than I’d care to think. But there are some smart individuals who may actually be driving the conversation. Ryan being one of them. No, he’s not perfect. But the fact that he’s back on the scene gives me some hope.

We’ll see. I’ve been incredibly depressed over the last few days, given all the crap that has come out. But maybe there really is an end-game that doesn’t include armed conflict.

nukemhill on October 10, 2013 at 6:31 PM

MontanaMmmm on October 10, 2013 at 6:34 PM

Neither can I… WTF is going on!!

Scrumpy on October 10, 2013 at 6:45 PM

MontanaMmmm on October 10, 2013 at 6:34 PM

Yes, it just happened according to the date on the tweet. Just as I predicted.

dogsoldier on October 10, 2013 at 6:48 PM

NO FVCKING DEAL!!

FVCKING LYING AZZ DIRTBAG…

Scrumpy on October 10, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Awww shite, just let the won have his fvcking way, give him what he wants and let the whole shebang fvcking collapse…

I am sick of his shite…

Scrumpy on October 10, 2013 at 6:51 PM

punting on debt ceiling for a few weeks is no big deal. Keep focus on obamacare and budget.

deploylinux on October 10, 2013 at 6:20 PM

I agree..Temporary debt ceiling raise is a good play by GOP..imho..:)

Dire Straits on October 10, 2013 at 6:53 PM

50th. We here in Dallas are a little sensitive about the date. :)

txmomof6 on October 10, 2013 at 6:17 PM

Oops. Brain fart. Mea culpa.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:53 PM

Oops. Brain fart. Mea culpa.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:53 PM

It happens..:)

PS..Good to see you..:)

Dire Straits on October 10, 2013 at 7:03 PM

Sounds like negotiations are still in progress .. it’s not been vetoed yet.

pambi on October 10, 2013 at 7:10 PM

I’m failing to see how pushing the debt limit out 60 days to remove it from the table while keeping the government closed is a GOP betrayal? Seems like a shrewd move to me.

mpthompson on October 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM

It is possible it’s not yet another betrayal, but there have been so many betrayals that the logical presumption, based on the history of betrayal, has to be that it’s yet another betrayal, unless and until proven otherwise.

VorDaj on October 10, 2013 at 7:17 PM

Liberals eating themselves. Political cannibalism when the Feds bring the heat.

Starlink on October 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM

I love it! :)

Sunday Times, Lance Armstrong settle suit

Britain’s Sunday Times said on Sunday it had reached an agreement with Lance Armstrong to settle a lawsuit after the newspaper was forced to pay damages over a report suggesting he had used banned substances.

Anti-Control on October 10, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Carney says Obama will indeed sign a debt-ceiling hike even if the shutdown is still on.

Why wouldn’t he? He gets what he wants, republicans give up the only leverage they have, and he gets to wait for republicans to cave on the shutdown too because they now have absolutely nothing to bargain with.

I honestly don’t know what the result of not raising the debt limit next week would be, but if the result was 2008-style market crash, it would only serve to distract from keeping Obama’s feet to the fire and perhaps work in Obama’s favor.

You mean the same way the market crash in 2008 worked out in President Bush’s favor and reminded people of how destructive democrat policies are?

Obama rejects?

E L Frederick (Sniper One)

Of course he did…for now. He now knows the republicans are dying to surrender, so now he’s simply waiting for them to give him even more. He’ll agree to a temporary debt increase, don’t worry. The only question is what else he’ll get from the republicans in the process. And two months from now he gets to do it all over again and get even more stuff from republicans, lol, because he knows they will never ever call his bluff.

xblade on October 10, 2013 at 8:24 PM

Republicans should refuse any further negotiations at all with anybody in this administration until it answers for the National Park Service scandal. This is objective, lawless thuggery and must be accounted for and redressed. It is an ongoing crime and a clear violation of the civic compact between government and citizen.

rrpjr on October 10, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Of course he did…for now. He now knows the republicans are dying to surrender, so now he’s simply waiting for them to give him even more. He’ll agree to a temporary debt increase, don’t worry. The only question is what else he’ll get from the republicans in the process. And two months from now he gets to do it all over again and get even more stuff from republicans, lol, because he knows they will never ever call his bluff.

xblade on October 10, 2013 at 8:24 PM

Sounds a lot like what people say about North Korea’s threats to drop their bomb on someone.

AesopFan on October 11, 2013 at 2:16 AM