National Park spokesman: The “First Amendment exception” to shutdown closures only applies to certain parks

posted at 4:01 pm on October 10, 2013 by Allahpundit

I don’t know where to begin here. Right off the bat, unless I missed an important con-law lesson somewhere along the line, there is no such thing as a “First Amendment exception” to using national parks. You don’t get special access to public property because you want to make a political point. The whole idea of a “First Amendment exception” seems to have derived from the National Park Service’s policy on “First Amendment activities,” which they pointed to after they got in hot water for shutting vets out of the World War II Memorial. That policy, though, only says that if you’re at a park to protest or have a religious ceremony or do something else protected by the First Amendment, you might be forced to hold it in a particular area of the park set aside for things like that, not anywhere you like. Which, of course, has nothing to do with elderly veterans wanting to visit a memorial to pay their respects. The NPS simply needed a half-assed excuse to let them in so that they wouldn’t get any more bad press, so they decided to pretend that the vets were engaged in “First Amendment activities.” How that turned into a “First Amendment exception,” I have no idea. And how you’d go about enforcing a “First Amendment exception,” I have no idea. If I’m on vacation in D.C. during the shutdown and want to see the Lincoln Memorial, does the ranger have to wave me through if I lie to him and claim that I’m there to protest? Will he watch me when I’m inside the memorial to make sure that I do protest? Will I get arrested if I don’t? Dude?

But never mind that. How on earth could the First Amendment create an “exception” that allows access to only some shuttered national parks but not others? I have a right to protest on the National Mall but not to protest in, say, Yellowstone because the Mall is super-historic ‘n stuff and Yellowstone isn’t? Hello?

Rangers [in Washington D.C.] told visitors Wednesday that they could not deny entry to anyone who wanted to exercise First Amendment rights, and could not interrogate visitors, which effectively means the monument is open to those aware of the loophole.

“The First Amendment trumps all,” a Park Service ranger told visitors…

Michael Litterst, a National Park Service spokesman, said the First Amendment exception applies only to several Washington and Philadelphia parks related to the government and its history, “due to these parks’ long history of hosting First Amendment events, their expansive outdoor grounds, and their location in major metropolitan areas.”

“You could not host a First Amendment rally at Chaco Culture, Grand Canyon, Manassas or any one of the 395 other parks where such activities are prohibited during the shutdown. They can be held only at the National Mall and Memorial Parks, the areas of the White House administered by the NPS, and Independence National Historical Park,” he said.

Show of hands, legal eagles out there: Who’s heard of this policy before, where the First Amendment trumps restricted access because of one public space’s cultural pedigree and doesn’t trump the same restrictions if another space lacks that pedigree? I e-mailed Ace’s co-blogger, Gabe Malor, who’s a lawyer in D.C. to check my work and he says he’s never heard of such a thing either. If anything, says Gabe, the NPS’s policy would be unconstitutional under the First Amendment because it’s not “content neutral”: They’re allowing people into the Mall to hold immigration rallies because that’s political speech but people whose speech is non-political and who aren’t there to make a point would, presumably, be barred. As best as I can tell, the NPS seems to be treating the entire national park system as essentially one big park, with “First Amendment activities” restricted to the parts of “the park” that are in D.C. and Philly. If they can do that, then presumably the feds can decide that all federal land spread throughout the country is essentially just one big plot of land, and that henceforth they’re going to dedicate a few acres in, say, Kansas as the designated “First Amendment activities” zone for the entire country. If you’re in New York, Alabama, Wyoming, or California and you want to protest on federal land, head to the airport and buy your ticket to Topeka.

All of which is to say, this policy is B.S. but it’s B.S. that likely sounds legalistic and convincing to the 99 percent of the public that’s never studied the First Amendment. “While the shutdown is on, you only get to access historic spaces and only then if you’re engaged in a ‘First Amendment activity.’” That … seems like it’s been reasoned out, kinda sorta, so that must indeed be what American law says the policy is. Nonsense; sue their asses. Or better yet, don’t and just continue to ignore the rangers when you want to enjoy a “closed” park instead.


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Bmore on October 10, 2013 at 5:11 PM

It used to be that if you were in a national park and saw a bear very close the thing to do was to call for a national park ranger and hope he protected you from the bear. Now if you see a national park ranger very close you should probably call for a bear and hope he protects you from the national park ranger.

And always remember “Support the Right to Arm Bears”.

VorDaj on October 10, 2013 at 5:08 PM

LOL. You outdid yourself with this one. Friggin brilliant!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on October 10, 2013 at 5:12 PM

The longer we go into the Cavernous Nether Regions of
this second term of this Jackal and his cast of Psychosomatic Parasites, we see that LAW no longer applies…evenly.

I’ve thought since 2008 with his election, we have come full
circle from the 60′s.

In the 60′s, we had Radicals who did Radical deeds, and were
put on Lists for Radicals. (FBI 10 most wanted list anyone?)

These people back then had no Power, and were considered
fringe elements of our Society….today these people are
in charge, and some of them (not all) have the same mindset
they had back then. But now, they have POWER. And the people
who are now considered Fringe elements of our Society.
Why, it is the people who 40-50 years ago were considered
the well reasoned, and well intended among us. They attended
church on a regular basis, they were Teachers, the Family Doctor,
the neighbor who would shovel the elderly widow’s sidewalk
when it snowed…..today they are ridiculed…

I hold out hope for our Nation…time will tell if there is a
Serum for this insidious Venom…

ToddPA on October 10, 2013 at 5:12 PM

Sure has H&ll hope the lawsuits are fast and furious over this.

LetsBfrank on October 10, 2013 at 5:13 PM

I’ve seen this movie before, and it ends with tank treads to the face.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 10, 2013 at 5:13 PM

What happens when the Marxist has his brownshirts start shooting people? And don’t think that isn’t going to happen, it will happen eventually.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM

Time, place and manner restrictions generally require more complex analysis. For more, click here.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM

Closing a park at sundown is a valid time, place and manner restriction.

Letting in only certain people because they are exercising political speech/”first Amendment activities” isn’t.

I’m sure you can tell the difference, yes?

Good Solid B-Plus on October 10, 2013 at 5:15 PM

And always remember “Support the Right to Arm Bears”.

VorDaj on October 10, 2013 at 5:08 PM

I have a t-shirt like that.
It actually says:
“2nd Amendment
The Right to Bear Arms”
and has a picture of 3 bears all holding rifles.
I love wearing that one in liberal areas / stores.

dentarthurdent on October 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM

What happens when the Marxist has his brownshirts start shooting people? And don’t think that isn’t going to happen, it will happen eventually.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM

Gonna be interesting to see what happens over the weekend.

chewmeister on October 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM

You missed the point, as usual. The point is not whether there are non-verbal activities that are covered by the First Amendment. Political donations are a form of speech.

The point is that there is not a ‘First Amendment activities’ exemption.

If there were, a Republican-controlled government could forbid Democrats from donating to there party.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:19 PM

there = their

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:20 PM

What happens when the Marxist has his brownshirts start shooting people? And don’t think that isn’t going to happen, it will happen eventually.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM

And, what happens when people shoot back?
Afterall, the targets the SS Rangers are likely to be shooting at, are those of us who very likely have guns.

dentarthurdent on October 10, 2013 at 5:22 PM

What happens when the Marxist has his brownshirts start shooting people? And don’t think that isn’t going to happen, it will happen eventually.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM

I think the marxist will make sure only white Christians are shot dead by his henchmen in uniforms ( as in Kenya’s mall)
and when ( not if) that happens blacks, muslims and mexicans will rejoice and his approval ratings will go up, he will be coronated Emir for life and Killery will have no chance inspite of muslim brotherhood financial backing.

burrata on October 10, 2013 at 5:24 PM

Vee vill decide which parks vill be closed

rjoco1 on October 10, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Say, is an exception like a waiver? Who has the authority to decide which and what becomes allowable under the 1st amendment? Is deliberate pain (arrests) and gun carrier threats by the government not a violation of that 1st amendment? Lot’s of questions , but since we’ve negated all laws for this president and our leftist power structure–the answer really doesn’t matter.

To paraphrase that well known statement:

First they came for the unborn, but I wasn’t one, so I ignored their plight, then they came for religious conscience, but I wasn’t Catholic, so I ignored their plight, then they came for me….

Don L on October 10, 2013 at 5:26 PM

I wanna be a Parkstapo Ranger
Get my kicks from harassing strangers
I will serve my Master Obama Fuhrer as best I can
I’ll hit those vets and seniors with a frying pan
Put up those Barrycades with the greatest of ease
And do to any that try to get by as I please

VorDaj on October 10, 2013 at 5:29 PM

This is getting interesting now. Frankly, I’m surprised it took this long for Obozo and Co. To convince themselves they actually trump The Constitution.

KMC1 on October 10, 2013 at 5:29 PM

And, what happens when people shoot back?
Afterall, the targets the SS Rangers are likely to be shooting at, are those of us who very likely have guns.

dentarthurdent on October 10, 2013 at 5:22 PM

I’m no longer convinced anyone would shoot back.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:32 PM

How about the right to clean up the National Monuments?

There will be a clean-up day on 12 OCT… bring your gloves, rakes, trash bags…

ajacksonian on October 10, 2013 at 5:39 PM

And everyone at HotGas performed a fanatical screaming human-wave assault on the prison to free him, sacrificing their bodies and lives as they clambered over barbed wire and across mine fields into a hailstorm of artillery and machine gun fire to free their brother from the clutches of tyranny and barbarism.

Bishop on October 10, 2013 at 4:36 PM

And on the way in:

RWM: Are we gonna die?
VorDaj: Yep!
VorDaj: They’re gonna shoot us in the head or they gonna torture us to death or they gonna leave us here when the bomb blows up…

dentarthurdent on October 10, 2013 at 5:42 PM

I’m no longer convinced anyone would shoot back.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:32 PM

I suspect most probably wouldn’t.
But there are some who appear to me to be right on the edge, so if the SS Rangers pick on the wrong person….

dentarthurdent on October 10, 2013 at 5:45 PM

I’m no longer convinced anyone would shoot back.

bgibbs1000 on October 10, 2013 at 5:32 PM

I suspect most probably wouldn’t.
But there are some who appear to me to be right on the edge, so if the SS Rangers pick on the wrong person….

dentarthurdent on October 10, 2013 at 5:45 PM

But on second thought – it depends on the situation.
If the SS Rangers actually start shooting at people under conditions such as what happened at Yellowstone, I think there are people who would shoot back.

dentarthurdent on October 10, 2013 at 5:48 PM

o/t, but important news from ThinkProgress:

LA Police Dogs Are Racist!…

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM

What happens when the Marxist has his brownshirts start shooting people?

bgibbs1000

The usual RINO cowards will be screaming that we need to cave because we can’t win the publicity war.

xblade on October 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM

You missed the point, as usual. The point is not whether there are non-verbal activities that are covered by the First Amendment. Political donations are a form of speech.

The point is that there is not a ‘First Amendment activities’ exemption.

If there were, a Republican-controlled government could forbid Democrats from donating to there party.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 5:19 PM

You are such an idiot. I’m surprised you know how to type. I was answering the question re whether attendance at monuments can be restricted to time, manner and place, that is all.

I’m licensed to practice law in MO, IL, Fed Courts, and Washington, DC. Where are you licensed to practice, oh so brilliant legal scholar?

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Citizens arrest every park ranger for treason.

SirGawain on October 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM

Why isn’t the ACLU suing the government about the closed parks thing?

albill on October 10, 2013 at 4:22 PM

Shocking that the ACLU isn’t all over this. /
No matter; the ACLJ has been all over it:

http://media.aclj.org/pdf/letter-to-national-park-service.pdf
http://aclj.org/free-speech-2/victory-war-heroes-constitution-war-memorials-reopen-first-amendment-activity

My guess is that ACLJ will have a thing or two to say about this newly-created exception to the First Amendment exception, too.

Rufus Wilson on October 10, 2013 at 6:00 PM

I’m licensed to practice law in MO, IL, Fed Courts, and Washington, DC. Where are you licensed to practice, oh so brilliant legal scholar?

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM

If you graduated from Harvard Law, please say so so up front.

Axe on October 10, 2013 at 6:02 PM

All of which is to say, this policy is B.S. but it’s B.S. that likely sounds legalistic and convincing to the 99 percent of the public that’s never studied the First Amendment. “While the shutdown is on, you only get to access historic spaces and only then if you’re engaged in a ‘First Amendment activity.’” That … seems like it’s been reasoned out, kinda sorta, so that must indeed be what American law says the policy is. Nonsense; sue their asses. Or better yet, don’t and just continue to ignore the rangers when you want to enjoy a “closed” park instead.

There’s really nothing to do with it but mark it on the calendar. It’s just Keystone Cops, clamoring.

I guess that’s what we’re doing. :)

Axe on October 10, 2013 at 6:04 PM

Time, place and manner restrictions generally require more complex analysis. For more, click here.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM

Closing a park at sundown is a valid time, place and manner restriction.

Letting in only certain people because they are exercising political speech/”first Amendment activities” isn’t.

I’m sure you can tell the difference, yes?

Good Solid B-Plus on October 10, 2013 at 5:15 PM

I see that I have offended multiple commenters by responding with a link to time, manner and place restrictions. It was not my intent to offend, nor was I offering an analysis on whether the restriction was valid. I do not believe it is valid, in other words, I believe that there SHOULD be access to the parks and monuments, but I wasn’t going to waste everyone’s time explaining why because the analysis is long and the conclusion is: we have a right to be in the parks and monuments, our attendance alone can be considered free speech which is covered under the first amendment, we don’t have to verbalize an opinion on anything to exercise that right.

From now on, I will keep my links to myself. Excuuuuuuuuuuse me.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:08 PM

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Actually, she’s a respected regular. You’re an ass—a dumb ass :(

Al in St. Lou on October 10, 2013 at 6:09 PM

I would strongly urge states to take over the parts in their jurisdiction and congress to get rid of national park service.

The Federal agencies(most of them) don’t have any intention to serve the purpose. They are political tools and they must be abolished.

antisocial on October 10, 2013 at 6:11 PM

You are such an idiot. I’m surprised you know how to type. I was answering the question re whether attendance at monuments can be restricted to time, manner and place, that is all.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM

But, that’s not the issue.

I’m licensed to practice law in MO, IL, Fed Courts, and Washington, DC. Where are you licensed to practice, oh so brilliant legal scholar?

Sure you are, which is why you constantly engage in plagiarism.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:11 PM

If you graduated from Harvard Law, please say so so up front.

Axe on October 10, 2013 at 6:02 PM

I did not graduate from harvard, if I did I would be extraordinarily proud of it, because it even though it reeks of liberalism, it is difficult to get into and I would have indeed been very proud.

No, I went to law school part-time for 4 years while working a full-time job. There are only a handful of law schools in the country that offer part-time programs, so go ahead and cast your stones about what a crappy school I went to. I. Don’t. Care. I help veterans and elders EVERY DAY so I am proud of what I do, my JD gets me a license to practice anywhere I can pass a bar exam, which so far, is everywhere I’ve taken one.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM

The National Park Service shouldn’t be given money to make up for lost appropriations.

goatweed on October 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Two words…..

American Spring.

PappyD61 on October 10, 2013 at 6:13 PM

The Shutdown applies to no park at all since if you really wanted to go to a park, all you have to do is sneak in through any of the miles of terrain the parks have.

The Nerve on October 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Sure you are, which is why you constantly engage in plagiarism.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:11 PM

So providing a link is plagiarism? Uh, duh, if I copied the info and stated it was mone, that would be plagiarism. Linking to someone else’s information res ipsa proves that I did not do that with which you accuse me of.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Utah is 24 hours away, apparently, from reopening the 5 National parks in that state–on their own dime. Here’s the link.

So Zions, Capitol Reef, Arches, Canyonlands, and Bryce Canyon will be the only open National Parks in the nation? Got to be good for tourism.

I just hope that Utah forgets to give them back….

Vanceone on October 10, 2013 at 6:16 PM

Sure you are, which is why you constantly engage in plagiarism.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:11 PM

Just out of curiosity, why you are attacking me?

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:19 PM

I help veterans and elders EVERY DAY so I am proud of what I do, my JD gets me a license to practice anywhere I can pass a bar exam, which so far, is everywhere I’ve taken one.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Then it makes no difference whether you went to Harvard or not. Ted Kennedy went to Harvard and couldn’t pass the bar until I think it was his third try and probably didn’t even really pass it that time. Obama went to Harvard didn’t he? and I doubt he could pass the bar without help.

VorDaj on October 10, 2013 at 6:19 PM

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Time, place, and manner restrictions are not the issue and we know that the Court long ago ruled on the issue – and will again this term.

The issue is whether there is a ‘First Amendment activities’ exception.

Time, place, and manner apply to everyone.

They apply to pro-life and pro-choice protestors outside an abortion clinic, for example, equally. See: Hill v Colorado, 530 U.S. 703 (2000). The restriction cannot treat pro-life protestors differently than pro-choice activists. The restrictions on time, place and manner must be content neutral. See: Ward v Rock Against Racism, 491 U.S. 781 (1989).

There is no law that prevents ‘First Amendment activities’ during a government shutdown on a federally-owned World War II memorial while allowing the same ‘First Amendment activities’ on prescribed federally-owned locations.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:21 PM

Al in St. Lou on October 10, 2013 at 6:09 PM

Thank you. :-)

VorDaj on October 10, 2013 at 6:19 PM

Coudn’t agree more. :-)

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:22 PM

No, I went to law school part-time for 4 years while working a full-time job. There are only a handful of law schools in the country that offer part-time programs, so go ahead and cast your stones about what a crappy school I went to. I. Don’t. Care. I help veterans and elders EVERY DAY so I am proud of what I do, my JD gets me a license to practice anywhere I can pass a bar exam, which so far, is everywhere I’ve taken one.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM

It was an inside joke. Self-aggrandizing is part of trolling, and there’s a troll on the board that eventually ratcheted up his qualifications until they finally reached Harvard Law. I was suggesting you skip to the chase.

I wouldn’t knock your school. But this:

You are such an idiot. I’m surprised you know how to type.

Makes puts you somewhere between a lethargic monkey and a pile of sh!t for intelligence. RWM’s brilliant.

Axe on October 10, 2013 at 6:23 PM

*Pick one. Sorry, bad edit. Maybe makes. No, puts. Puts.

Axe on October 10, 2013 at 6:24 PM

If I were the leaders of the truckers and the vets, I would get hold of the Patriot Guard and see how the three groups could be beneficial to one another. It would be one heckuva sight.

kingsjester on October 10, 2013 at 6:27 PM

National Park spokesman: The “First Amendment exception” to shutdown closures only applies to certain parks groups

Dr. ZhivBlago on October 10, 2013 at 6:28 PM

I help veterans and elders EVERY DAY so I am proud of what I do, my JD gets me a license to practice anywhere I can pass a bar exam, which so far, is everywhere I’ve taken one.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM

It’s weird how you just magically got a JD & a law licence.

And, yes, it is plagiarism when you provide links to the CBO, but do not, say, provide it for the article that you copypasta’d.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:30 PM

I’ve seen middle schoolers make sh*t up as they go along who do a more convincing job than these clowns…clown thugs, if such a thing is possible.

ellifint on October 10, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Just out of curiosity, why you are attacking me?

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:19 PM

Attacking you?

LOL.

Thin-skin, baby, thin-skin.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:32 PM

In order for the parks to close down only CERTAIN parks and monuments but not others in the same location, such as barring access to WWII but not Iwo Jima, they would have to have a constitutional time, manner, and place restriction, which they do not. So the statement, and the point of this whole discussion, is that there is no constitutional way to bar access to only some but not others.

So can someone explain to me what a “first amendment exception” is? I don’t know what that is, if you have a case or a link that would be helpful.

My whole point is that without time, manner and place restriction, barring access selectively is unconstitutional. But, I am open to correction.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:33 PM

Al in St. Lou on October 10, 2013 at 6:09 PM

TYVVM.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:33 PM

And, yes, it is plagiarism when you provide links to the CBO, but do not, say, provide it for the article that you copypasta’d.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:30 PM

plagiarism: the act of using another person’s words or ideas without giving credit to that person: the act of plagiarizing something

So you suggest footnoting every link?

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:36 PM

And talk about thin skinnned, I’m agreeing with you and you’re wanting to fight with me…

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:38 PM

RWM, I have other things to do, so I will let you have the last word. I like your blog, btw.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:41 PM

So can someone explain to me what a “first amendment exception” is? I don’t know what that is, if you have a case or a link that would be helpful.

My whole point is that without time, manner and place restriction, barring access selectively is unconstitutional. But, I am open to correction.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:33 PM

We are arguing that there is no ‘First Amendment activities’ exception. Time, place, and manner does not recognise such. While there is certainly a right to go to the Capitol to seek redress of grievances, there isn’t a ‘First Amendment activities’ exception that permits some access at 3 AM and prohibits to others. If there were, La Raza or the Tea Party could shut down the Capitol at any time. Under this stupid standard, the NPS is saying that they will make the decision as to what are ‘First Amendment activities’ and where such can take place, selectively and subjectively.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:41 PM

How about “Support the Right to Arm Bears – make the Pope find his own damn bathroom.”

PersonFromPorlock on October 10, 2013 at 6:46 PM

plagiarism: the act of using another person’s words or ideas without giving credit to that person: the act of plagiarizing something

So you suggest footnoting every link?

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:36 PM

No, I suggest that you identify the author of whole paragraphs that you c&p and provide a link or, at least, set off the entire passage in quotes.

RWM, I have other things to do, so I will let you have the last word.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 6:41 PM

I’m not surprised. A convo on practicing before the Federal courts is not one that you want to have if you are claiming to have passed a special bar exam in order to do so because, after all, that’s not the case. And, in order to be admitted to the SCOTUS bar, one needs only to apply, be sponsored by two attorneys, who are already members of the SCOTUS bar, be a member of the highest bar in a state, and pay the admission fees.

I like your blog, btw.

Thanks.

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 6:50 PM

What I don’t understand is why the First Amendment protects the immigration rally, but not a priest saying Mass in a chapel on a military base? Doesn’t the First Amendment say something about free exercise of religion?

jdp629 on October 10, 2013 at 6:51 PM

This First Amendment exception was created by some NPS managers who have half heard their lawyers talk about the First Amendment a few years ago.

Or maybe it was created by a former Constitutional Law adjunct professor from Chicago.

slp on October 10, 2013 at 6:56 PM

National Park spokesman: The “First Amendment exception” to shutdown closures only applies to certain parks

Oddly enough, that’s not the way the US Constitution reads.

RJL on October 10, 2013 at 6:58 PM

I’m not surprised. A convo on practicing before the Federal courts is not one that you want to have if you are claiming to have passed a special bar exam in order to do so because, after all, that’s not the case. And, in order to be admitted to the SCOTUS bar, one needs only to apply, be sponsored by two attorneys, who are already members of the SCOTUS bar, be a member of the highest bar in a state, and pay the admission fees.

Why do you want to continue this? But since you do, please point to the post where I stated I passed a federal bar exam. I have never had to take one, I’ve taken state bar exams and been sponsored into the federal courts in which I practice. I wrote that I passed every bar I’ve taken.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 7:00 PM

And seriously, RWM, why not have a civil discussion? You’re the one that launched the first salvo stating that I missed the point as usual, when all I did was link to a page that showed that the only possible explanation for the parks unconstitutional action was time, place and manner, and that even that was not valid.

I have been agreeing that not only is there no first amendment expection, the only possible theory is one that is invalid.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 7:04 PM

I don’t think the National Park Service is going to like what they look like in 5 years – you have flexed your muscles – now watch us American citizens flex ours – return all national parks to the states and FIRE the JACK BOOTED THUGS WHO ENJOY ENFORCING illegal closures.

cdtaxlady on October 10, 2013 at 7:11 PM

Horseballs.

My 1st Amendment rights follow me EVERYWHERE.

irongrampa on October 10, 2013 at 7:20 PM

Won’t be long until Obama decides the first amendment exception only applies to certain people.

And Republican leaders would groan if any conservatives stood up to complain.

JellyToast on October 10, 2013 at 7:22 PM

let me see if I got this right. The park is closed I can’t get in. If I protest that the park is closed then I can get in.It boggles the reasonable mind.

jpcpt03 on October 10, 2013 at 7:25 PM

No one is saying this, but no one who ever expects to lose power acts in the manner that the Dems are now. They must have already paid for the next election.

famous amos on October 10, 2013 at 7:34 PM

Dear Idiot Bureaucrat,

The Constitution applies to the entire US. It is not selective or subject to the whims of petty tyrants such as yourself and your boss.

Sincerely,

Paulejb

paulus1 on October 10, 2013 at 7:35 PM

‘I’m a former NPS historian/supervisory interpretive park ranger from two parks (at Vicksburg National Military Park in Mississippi and the Steamtown National Historic Site in Pennsylvania.). I’m now serving as a historian for another Federal agency. For years I’ve monitored NPS vacancies, just in case the opportunity arose to return to the NPS as a historian. No longer . . .

I have never been more embarrassed to admit that I’m former National Park Service and I will never return. The Park Ranger has long served as an representative of good government, someone who the public looked up to and admired. Through this calculated, politically-driven hackery and thug tactics, the image of the ranger and the NPS with the American public has been broken, probably irrevocably.’

- Mark Morgan

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Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 7:36 PM

But I want to recreate at a public park so I can protest the government not wanting people to recreate there!

ajacksonian on October 10, 2013 at 7:37 PM

You don’t have to be “protesting” or “engaged in political speech” of any kind for the First Amendment to apply.
It very clearly says “…or the right of the people peaceably to assemble…”.
Perhaps if people went to the parks in groups of three or more, the “First Amendment Exception” ‘criteria’ would be met.

On the other hand, I’m sure the constitutional “scholar” (lol) who is pretending to be pResident will issue an interpretation for us all in short order.

Solaratov on October 10, 2013 at 7:39 PM

Where’s the 2nd Amendment exception?

Lost in Jersey on October 10, 2013 at 7:43 PM

You are such an idiot. I’m surprised you know how to type. I was answering the question re whether attendance at monuments can be restricted to time, manner and place, that is all.

I’m licensed to practice law in MO, IL, Fed Courts, and Washington, DC. Where are you licensed to practice, oh so brilliant legal scholar?

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM

This was not wise. Not a very professional legal posture to take. My opinion. I would have fired you if you where representing me.

Bmore on October 10, 2013 at 8:45 PM

That’s ok, bmore, I’m not really a lawyer. I guess it’s time to come clean. I’m still living with my parents, I don’t own a house and I’ve never paid rent or a mortgage. I never graduated from any school, never had any honors or awards or accolades of any kind. I’ve always been an exceptionally poor student and unable to achieve any degree of academic success whatsoever. I was not born into abject poverty nor did I ever work my way out of even a single difficult situation purely on my own brains, wit, cunning or hard work. My entire life, everything I‘ve ever had has been handed to me on a silver platter. I’m actually a liberal. I’ve never earned a dime, never had a job, and certainly never managed any persons or projects or initiatives. I never had any amazing or truly incredible outcomes that benefitted entire groups of people or changed people’s lives. I never owned a business, nor have I ever built a business from the ground up nor have I helped others do the same. I’ve never volunteered to do anything, never been involved in any political campaigns, and I’ve never unselfishly helped anyone do anything ever. I’ve only been posting here at hotair because I have absolutely nothing else to do with my life. But you people are just too smart for me, you’ve unearthed my secret that in my entire life I’ve never done anything or owned anything. I chose the moniker JustTruth101 because I have no respect for facts, truthtelling or honesty, and I thought it would be funny to use that moniker. Every word I’ve ever typed has been a lie. Not a single word is true. You people are so civil, and have such intelligent discussions, that I just can’t keep up. You are also quite persuasive to those that participate in your discussions that I can see how outsiders to your world are being won over to conservatism in droves. The truth is now revealed: I simply can’t keep up with your superior intellects. So be well. I bid you, adieu.

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 10:14 PM

There’s a man who leads a life of danger!
He’s the man they call, Yosemite Ranger!
With every move he makes,
Another hemorrhoid breaks!
Odds are he won’t live to see tomorrow!

Mister, Ranger Man!
Mister, Ranger Man!
They’ve given you a gun,
An taken away your brain.

Kenosha Kid on October 10, 2013 at 10:17 PM

JustTruth101 on October 10, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Forgot your sarc tag.

Bmore on October 10, 2013 at 11:04 PM

I’ve noticed Red Square has remained open.

It must be that “flexibility” O’Barky was talking about….

viking01 on October 10, 2013 at 11:46 PM

I have a right to protest on the National Mall but not to protest in, say, Yellowstone because the Mall is super-historic ‘n stuff and Yellowstone isn’t? Hello?

Ya’ wanna see Yellowstone? Here’s your solution. Get a 3′ by 5′ piece of cardboard and a sharpie, write “Occupy Yellowstone” on the cardboard, and hop the barricade into the park.

olesparkie on October 11, 2013 at 7:12 AM

if the state operate the parks do they get to keep the entrance fees, and any concession fees for the parks they operate?

RonK on October 11, 2013 at 7:42 AM

Resist We Much on October 10, 2013 at 7:36 PM

I had my first awakening with the park service down in Gettysburg. What they have done there with the visitor’s center is almost criminal. They tore down a perfectly good visitor’s center.. that was free to the public and packed with historical things for people to see and built a massive new complex outside of town. They… they took all those wonderful items… guns, uniforms, cannons, and put them in storage out and away from the public. They only show one third of what they did before.. and then you have to pay to see it. Even though the brand new visitor’s center they built is twice as big as the old one. And when you walk in.. it’s all space. It’s massive and there’s nothing there. They have a sign, though… says something like “Due to the volume of items we have we could never exhibit them all. Thank you for your co-operation.” Or something like that.

Then.. they used to have the electric map thing you could pay like $2.00 to see. It was in an amphitheater. It explained the whole battle. Been there for almost 75 years. The head of the Park Service hated it because he was color blind and it was confusing and dated to him.. even though it was always packed and became a tradition for people to see. He had it removed and cut up and replaced with a video you had to pay to see. Last I heard few were watching it so they had to raised the price again. something like $20. to watch a video that has clips from the movie “Gettysburg.”
It’s such a joke.

If you ever visit Gettysburg.. just ask some of the business owners “Where’s the electric map? What happened to the old Visitors Center?” and you will get an ear full!

JellyToast on October 11, 2013 at 8:56 AM

Just a thought, but I don’t need a “First Amendment exception“, since I have a “We the people rule“. Those parks already belong to me. They aren’t *yours* Park Service, they’e mine. And, since you’re doing a crappy job of taking care of them, I need to take them back from your care.

GWB on October 11, 2013 at 9:10 AM

Federal National park in Lowell MA, commemorating the industrial revolution, child labor, early robber barons OPEN in Massachusetts, no armed guards keeping you from looking at the looms or the canals.

Fleuries on October 11, 2013 at 9:19 AM

gatorboy on October 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM

Just like in the cast majority of government jobs that are NOT the military – purged, or silent so as not to be.

PJ Emeritus on October 11, 2013 at 9:56 AM

derp – vast, not cast

PJ Emeritus on October 11, 2013 at 9:56 AM

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