Tom Coburn: Wait, I’m a RINO now because I disagree with Ted Cruz on tactics?

posted at 6:41 pm on September 26, 2013 by Allahpundit

Alternate headline: “RINO surprised to discover he’s a RINO.” No, no, kidding. It’s a testament to how much goodwill Coburn has earned with grassroots righties that he remains a minor player in the RINO/true conservative squabble over defunding despite having been one of the first big-name Republicans to publicly criticize Cruz’s tactics. Or maybe I’m wrong and he’s simply being ignored because a more attractive target for right-wing wrath has inserted himself into this. Coburn gets a pass vis-a-vis McCain, I think, not just because of differences in their record but because Coburn takes no obvious personal pleasure in rebuking the wacko birds. When he tells you it’s too bad that Cruz is doomed to fail, you believe him. Not so Maverick. In fact, there’s an odd symmetry between Coburn as low-key opponent of trying to defund and Mike Lee as a (comparatively) low-key supporter. Both of them are being overshadowed on their respective sides by guys who are lightning rods for criticism. The left (and Peter King) will come away from this declaring Ted Cruz some kind of terrorist but Lee will sail on undamaged.

I think Coburn’s right, though, that confusion about what’s possible here risks disappointment and demotivation next year. Tactically, things have reached the point where even some grassroots conservatives who are following this closely aren’t sure what’s going on. Here’s something one of Orrin Hatch’s staffers posted yesterday:

The confusion over cloture is understandable, but it comes on top of the earlier confusion about Cruz wanting to filibuster the House bill that actually defunds ObamaCare and on top of the broader uncertainty about which side would suffer more from a shutdown over defunding and how badly. Ironically, I think the more convoluted the tactical debate becomes, the easier it is to simply choose a side between the RINOs and true conservatives and start hammering the other as sellouts/grandstanders. Democrats insist that Cruz’s filibuster will achieve nothing; Coburn, whatever his feelings about ObamaCare, agrees with them on at least that much. If he’s not willing to risk a months-long shutdown in a quixotic bid to pressure the other party into defunding the biggest “accomplishment” of the Obama presidency, then he’s kinda sorta “with” the Democrats, isn’t he? QED.

Update: If Tom Coburn’s the new president of the RINOs, Rick Perry must be his VP.

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I really hate the term Rino…I guess that makes me one. I just don’t see how we win future elections by shrinking the party. Reagan welcomed those who agreed and disagreed with him and grew the party.

bopbottle on September 26, 2013 at 7:30 PM

+ 100..Agreed..I guess I’m with you..I thought we were “surrender monkeys”..:)

Dire Straits on September 26, 2013 at 7:41 PM

7.) Shoot the hostage. Default on the debt, and let the economy (and with it, the country) collapse, leading to the dissolution of the United States.

Stoic Patriot on September 26, 2013 at 7:34 PM

A govt slowdown (It’s not a a shutdown) does not bring about a default. Monthly revenues are sufficient to pay current debt and more. The govt would not be able to borrow new money. Except that it will anyway as Obama will do it by decree if R’s hold firm.

They should let him and then impeach him in the House.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 7:41 PM

I agree with that, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that trying a “defunding” provision to the CR is the best way to accomplish that.

Chuckles3 on September 26, 2013 at 7:35 PM

Defunding is an approach. So is using budget battles and raising the debt ceiling to do it. How’d the GOP use those MULTIPLE opportunities?

The real problem IMO, beside Coburn being a filthy coward attacking Cruz on NSNBC and not face-to-face, is a lack of GOP leadership. Somebody in the House and Senate that can rally the troops instead of sneer at Tea Party candidates as not pure enough blood to be taken seriously like McCain, Graham, and Boehner.

Happy Nomad on September 26, 2013 at 7:42 PM

And yet, somehow life didn’t end for those same kind of folks during the other 8-9 times the government was shut down since 1976, including one time the government shut down for 21 days during the Clinton administration.

Life didn’t end; Clinton used it to revive his political fortunes on the way to his 1996 re-election.

Repeal of Obamacare requires Republican majorities in both houses of Congress and a Republican in the White House. It cannot be accomplished with D’s controlling the Senate and President Obama in the WH. So the question becomes how to maximize the chances of that happening; raising false hopes that Obamacare can be ‘defunded” in the CR and sowing divisions between R’s is not exactly a step in that direction.

All R’s can do at this point is take symbolic votes to repeal Obamacare, knowing the Senate won’t pass them, which the House has done a gazillion times. They can’t actually repeal it or defund it with the current political alignment, and sowing anger over their inability to do so only helps the D’s.

Chuckles3 on September 26, 2013 at 7:43 PM

Since this is a CR, the funding is only for the rest of this fiscal year, which comes to roughly $13 Billion. But actual funding for the 2014 is much more and will be part of the 2014 budget talks to come soon. You kill the CR HusseinCare budget you get much better chances to defund it for 2014 as well.

riddick on September 26, 2013 at 7:41 PM

If I recall correctly, the new fiscal year begins in October. This is set to hit on September 30 / October 1, which is right at the beginning of FY2014.

A govt slowdown (It’s not a a shutdown) does not bring about a default. Monthly revenues are sufficient to pay current debt and more. The govt would not be able to borrow new money. Except that it will anyway as Obama will do it by decree if R’s hold firm.

They should let him and then impeach him in the House.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Correct. A government shutdown does not result in default (that is currently slated for October 17 while the shutdown is slated for October 1). However, a certain amount of “mandatory spending” (as opposed to discretionary spending) continues, in which case that ceiling should still be reached. If Obama does away with the debt ceiling by decree (as has been suggested by some liberals invoking the clause that the debt not be challenged), then I think we’re dealing with a full-on dictator, in which case people start availing themselves of… “less-than-legal” options to respond with.

Stoic Patriot on September 26, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Seriously, people are going to turn on Coburn? Talk about a circular firing squad. You what my concern is? How about a 21 year-old Army E-4 with two kids and no paycheck due to a govt. shutdown. Worse, the spouse of that 21 yo E-4 who has to deal with this while he is deployed.

The Opinionator on September 26, 2013 at 7:00 PM

So let’s just screw over millions of Americans and destroy the economy so someone who works for the government isn’t put into the same situations the rest of this country faces on a daily basis.

Sorry… I’ve got no sympathy for someone on the federal gravy train who might have to miss a meal.

Wendya on September 26, 2013 at 7:46 PM

I really hate the term Rino…I guess that makes me one. I just don’t see how we win future elections by shrinking the party. Reagan welcomed those who agreed and disagreed with him and grew the party.

bopbottle on September 26, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Reagan stood for something and was willing to take people who agreed with him 80% of the time.

What does the Republican party stand for?

And what do you do with members who decide that agreeing with it is a <80% affair and feel like sniping at their fellow members?

Actually I'm stuck at trying to figure out what the Republican party stands for so that it can GET 80% agreement… and that IS the problem.

ajacksonian on September 26, 2013 at 7:47 PM

When was the last time you ever saw a Democrat publicly trash another Democrat?

bw222 on September 26, 2013 at 7:47 PM

It’s not Tom’s conservative credentials that annoy me. It’s his poorly timed, over the top, public bitching about Ted Cruz not allowing him to be…conservative,….or something.

“I’m 180 degrees in opposition to the speaker — she’s a nice lady,” he said. The crowd could be heard responding unfavorably to his characterization.

“Come on now, she is a nice — how many of you all have met her?” continued Coburn. “She’s a nice person. She’s a nice person.”

(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com …

nuf said.

MontanaMmmm on September 26, 2013 at 7:07 PM

Oh my God. Another Republican with Stockholm Syndrome. They can never criticize a lib severely without feeling sheepish about it.

Dongemaharu on September 26, 2013 at 7:48 PM

A govt slowdown (It’s not a a shutdown) does not bring about a default. Monthly revenues are sufficient to pay current debt and more. The govt would not be able to borrow new money. Except that it will anyway as Obama will do it by decree if R’s hold firm.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Given the Strum und Drang of politics these days, I think it would be fun if the House were to go cold, dark, and silent after getting the sham legislation headed back their way with funding for Obamacare and the looming “shutdown” on Tuesday. A 24 hour (or maybe more aptly a 21 hour and 19 min) period of absolute silence.

Happy Nomad on September 26, 2013 at 7:49 PM

This still doesn’t answer my question about why “defunding” is the choice here.

Chuckles3

Because it’s a funding bill in question. Harry Reid doesn’t have to do anything with a bill sent to him to repeal(which the House has sent him several times already), but if he wants the government funded, he has to have a vote on a CR that funds the government.

Look if someone can explain the endgame here to me I am all ears.

Chuckles3

Cruz and Lee have explained it time and time again. If you were all ears you would have heard their explanation at least once by now.

xblade on September 26, 2013 at 7:49 PM

No Tom, it is not because you disagree with Cruz that you look like a RINO, but because you are complaining about this on MSNBC…

RINOs go on MSNBC…its is their network of choice to complain about the “nasty” base.

William Eaton on September 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM

Tom Coburn: Wait, I’m a RINO now because I disagree with Ted Cruz on tactics?

Bless his heart…he didn’t know.

fight like a girl on September 26, 2013 at 7:52 PM

When was the last time you ever saw a Democrat publicly trash another Democrat?

bw222 on September 26, 2013 at 7:47 PM

The NYC Mayor’s race when Anthony Weiner was running.

But your point is spot on. Democrats are critical in private and lemmings in public. The GOP is more honest. Come 2014, an awful lot of Democrats are going to wish they hadn’t been Obamacare cheerleaders. The parasite class will think it is great but they would have voted Demonrat anyway. The middle class with 100%+ increases in healthcare costs will not be so supportive.

Happy Nomad on September 26, 2013 at 7:52 PM

It’s not Tom’s conservative credentials that annoy me. It’s his poorly timed, over the top, public bi!tching about Ted Cruz not allowing him to be…conservative,….or something.

“I’m 180 degrees in opposition to the speaker — she’s a nice lady,” he said. The crowd could be heard responding unfavorably to his characterization.

“Come on now, she is a nice — how many of you all have met her?” continued Coburn. “She’s a nice person. She’s a nice person.”

(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com …

nuf said.

MontanaMmmm on September 26, 2013 at 7:07 PM

Ugh. Another Republican with Stockholm Syndrome. They can never criticize a lib severely without feeling sheepish about it.

Dongemaharu on September 26, 2013 at 7:54 PM

Coburn ceased to be a conservative when he went on MSNBC and attacked Cruz. He betrayed us, right along with the other Quislings McCain, Graham, McConnell, and Cornyn.

Coburn is a coward and a traitor.

Quartermaster on September 26, 2013 at 7:57 PM

If he’s not willing to risk a months-long shutdown in a quixotic bid to pressure the other party into defunding the biggest “accomplishment” of the Obama presidency, then he’s kinda sorta “with” the Democrats, isn’t he? QED.

I have been told by several Cruz fans that he has never supported any kind of shutdown. They say it is a false charge against him to make such a claim. This is the problem. At this point it is all so confusing people do not know who supports what or why. That is Cruz’s fault. He has been too busy grandstanding to actually explain his long term plan and position.

Terrye on September 26, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Ugh. Another Republican with Stockholm Syndrome. They can never criticize a lib severely without feeling sheepish about it.

Dongemaharu on September 26, 2013 at 7:54 PM

I would prefer a Congress where they went after each other with canes… and had duels to settle matters. Now those were the days. This current crop would faint dead away if they had to even raise their hands in protest.

ajacksonian on September 26, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Cruz just did 52% of American Citizens a favor. He exposed the fact that we don’t have a 2 party system, we have a Congress Club system. They’re all in cahoots.

………..

If they keep Palinizing Cruz, this is going to backfire in a huge way. I hope.

Key West Reader on September 26, 2013 at 8:00 PM

“Another Republican with Stockholm Syndrome.”

Yes. They have fallen into the trap of emotionalism, just like liberals.

Dems are supposed to be the emotional party, Reps the logical party.

R’s are truly Dem lite now.

The GOPe must be thrown out of office or we are doomed. And that’s the bulk of the party.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 8:00 PM

Seriously, people are going to turn on Coburn? Talk about a circular firing squad. You what my concern is? How about a 21 year-old Army E-4 with two kids and no paycheck due to a govt. shutdown. Worse, the spouse of that 21 yo E-4 who has to deal with this while he is deployed.

The Opinionator on September 26, 2013 at 7:00 PM

Okay, there is a lot wrong with your comments but let’s start with the biggest lie. Even during a shutdown the active duty military are considered essential employees and are paid. And frankly a 21-year-old E-4 with two kids has no business making more. Maybe the deployment is a good thing.

Secondly, people are not going to “turn” on Coburn but it isn’t doing him a service to pretend that his support of funding Obamacare is where conservatives are at this point. Let’s see Coburn defend Tea Party Republicans the way he defended the lazy stupid rat-eared bastard in the White House.

Happy Nomad on September 26, 2013 at 8:01 PM

I would prefer a Congress where they went after each other with canes… and had duels to settle matters. Now those were the days. This current crop would faint dead away if they had to even raise their hands in protest.

ajacksonian on September 26, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Sir Kerry raises his glass of cognac as a toast to you… here here!

Key West Reader on September 26, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Chuckles3 on September 26, 2013 at 7:43 PM

Excellent post.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:02 PM

I have been told by several Cruz fans that he has never supported any kind of shutdown. They say it is a false charge against him to make such a claim. This is the problem. At this point it is all so confusing people do not know who supports what or why. That is Cruz’s fault. He has been too busy grandstanding to actually explain his long term plan and position.

Terrye on September 26, 2013 at 7:58 PM

His long term plan is to continue grandstanding and throwing red meat at the base so they will support him if and when he seeks the presidency in 2016.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:03 PM

There was a brawl over Obamacare, which Republicans don’t support, and Coburn wouldn’t fight. That’s what I took away.

claudius on September 26, 2013 at 8:04 PM

I’m going to repeat this until everyone is even more sick of reading it.

It’s a slowdown, not a shutdown. All services classified as essential continue as well as payment on the current debt.

AND, there is enough monthly revenue to pay for the above.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Coburn=RINO
Perry=Retarded RINO

Mr. Arrogant on September 26, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Happy Nomad on September 26, 2013 at 8:01 PM

I was in the last ‘shutdown’ and an ‘essential employee’.

Our agency had enough cash on hand to run things until funding came through. Missed two days of pay which were put into the next pay period, so no real hardship. And I didn’t see a mass exodus after it, either.

ajacksonian on September 26, 2013 at 8:05 PM

“What the hell happened to my 11th Commandment?!!”

-Ronaldus Maximus

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Sarah Palin [::in chorus::] “TELL us about it!!!”

Kent18 on September 26, 2013 at 8:05 PM

“His long term plan is to continue grandstanding..”

He campaigned and was elected on the promise that he would do exactly what he is doing. If that helps him in other ways, so be it.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 8:06 PM

If Cruz is just spinning wheels why ids Obama frantically selling his already failed Corruptacare?

Why in the world is the GOP helping him by asking for a delay when it can only move the pain and rebellion past the 2014 election then Obama will the probably take all three branches of government over?
Never mind, we who have been watching the GOP’s game of pretend ineptness as co-rulers, already know the answer to that, thanks to Cruz for giving us confirming evidence with his un-republican-like courage o expose their rotted souls..

Don L on September 26, 2013 at 8:09 PM

No, Coburn is a “RINO” because he called voters racist in 2010 for asking questions about Obamacare.He is a complete fraud.He comes out with a list of “government waste” every year and then what does he do? Nothing. Not a single thing.
tetriskid on September 26, 2013 at 6:57 PM

This and calling Nancy and Oboobi nice friends are just a few things that might make you a RINOs. Just ask newt what happened when he got caught sleeping with the enemy, ie the couch with Nancy.

Tom started making that bed back in 08 by pushing McVain for no other reason than it was his turn. And now the thrill is totally gone. He better not even think about running again because he will be primaried

AH_C on September 26, 2013 at 8:10 PM

His long term plan is to continue grandstanding and throwing red meat at the base so they will support him if and when he seeks the presidency in 2016.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Ah..Hmmm….grandstanding is what all politicians do, In fact Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc. all did some grandstanding during their day.

Our greatest politicians were masters at that…

William Eaton on September 26, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Life didn’t end; Clinton used it to revive his political fortunes on the way to his 1996 re-election.

Chuckles3

BS. Clinton was going to be elected anyway. Unemployment rate was 5.4%, the economy was doing well, the stock market was up, we weren’t at war with anyone, and the internet boom was just starting to take off. The idea that Bob Dole would have defeated Clinton if not for the government shutdown a year earlier is more myth making by cowardly republicans who are fans of revisionist history.

xblade on September 26, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Sir Kerry raises his glass of cognac as a toast to you… here here!

Key West Reader on September 26, 2013 at 8:01 PM

I’ll just take a shot of Everclear, thanks. I’m all out of Thunderbird.

ajacksonian on September 26, 2013 at 8:12 PM

I have been told by several Cruz fans that he has never supported any kind of shutdown. They say it is a false charge against him to make such a claim. This is the problem. At this point it is all so confusing people do not know who supports what or why. That is Cruz’s fault. He has been too busy grandstanding to actually explain his long term plan and position.

Terrye on September 26, 2013 at 7:58 PM

His long term plan is to continue grandstanding and throwing red meat at the base so they will support him if and when he seeks the presidency in 2016.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Gosh, this Cruz attack too, could well have been written by the White house.

Don L on September 26, 2013 at 8:12 PM

He campaigned and was elected on the promise that he would do exactly what he is doing. If that helps him in other ways, so be it.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 8:06 PM

He campaigned on going to Washington to engage in empty symbolism? I must have missed that ad.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:14 PM

The Republican Party is a lost cause and must be dismantled and rebuilt. That will be very, very difficult

So, the fallback position is that ammo, weapons, canned food and rural land should be hoarded.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Noooo!!!!! Rick Perry, why??

Jack_Burton on September 26, 2013 at 8:14 PM

His long term plan is to continue grandstanding and throwing red meat at the base so they will support him if and when he seeks the presidency in 2016.

alchemist19

Everyone knows the way to get elected is to alienate the very people who want to vote for you. Bending over and complete surrender is the only way to win.

xblade on September 26, 2013 at 8:15 PM

He campaigned on going to Washington to engage in empty symbolism? I must have missed that ad.

alchemist19

Hmm…a lot of people are getting awfully upset over something that is supposedly nothing more than empty symbolism.

xblade on September 26, 2013 at 8:16 PM

The Republicans in the House do not support a shutdown. That was the point of passing a CR without Obamacare in it. There is no reason for anyone to shut down the government(not that it doesn’t have its merits) The money is there. The Democrats are the ones that are going nuts over this lying and lying. Even Senate Republicans are out there wimping out over this. Are they pretending they don’t understand? Can they be that stupid? Harry Reid doesn’t want to pass it so he’s stripping out the offensive language(to him) Harry and Obama are the ones having the temper tantrums. They know they are in a corner. So what does a rat do in this case? Lie. The Senate Republicans are afraid to breathe. Lamar and Lindsey are not the only ones that will be primaried. It is shocking to see Republicans act this way. No wonder the tea party are terrorists to these pathetic legislators. They might win the battle, but all of them know that Ted Cruz is right. They have been blatantly ignoring us pretending to be on our side. Throw them all out.

BetseyRoss on September 26, 2013 at 8:16 PM

He campaigned on going to Washington to engage in empty symbolism? I must have missed that ad.

alchemist19

Oh, you are trolling. Never mind.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Terrye

It’s not exactly surprising to learn about your confusion in regards to the actions of a conservative.

xblade on September 26, 2013 at 8:18 PM

He’s been a whiny Diva for years………and my family in the state couldn’t think of one single thing he’s actually accomplished in his 9 years in the Senate.

He’s a media whore like his boss John McCain. And he’s just taking up space in Congress…….like about 200 other republicans.

PappyD61 on September 26, 2013 at 8:18 PM

What does the Republican party stand for?

ajacksonian on September 26, 2013 at 7:47 PM

These days, post the McCain-ization and Romney-fication of the GOP? Why, whatever the Democrat party stands for, of course!

Kent18 on September 26, 2013 at 8:22 PM

Everyone knows the way to get elected is to alienate the very people who want to vote for you. Bending over and complete surrender is the only way to win.

xblade on September 26, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Being a leader also means you’re not afraid to take political risks and tell people they are wrong when they are wrong. Clearly there are some people out there who don’t want to hear that there was no realistic way to get Obamacare defunded even though it’s the truth. Tom Coburn has the guts to say it and I commend him for it. With others whether it’s that they aren’t as courageous as Coburn or are simply refusing to let a good crisis go to waste, I can’t say.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:23 PM

He’s a Metropolitan Opera republican……….no offense to the Met.

His daughter gets him into the right social circles where he can hob knob about the Duck Dynast rubes in the base.

I’m tired of making excuses for these lying sacks of possum —-.

PappyD61 on September 26, 2013 at 8:23 PM

Hmm…a lot of people are getting awfully upset over something that is supposedly nothing more than empty symbolism.

xblade on September 26, 2013 at 8:16 PM

I’m not upset at all. I still like Cruz just fine even though I recognize what he’s up to. I’m just expressing my incredulity that so many other people can’t see it.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:24 PM

These days, post the McCain-ization and Romney-fication of the GOP? Why, whatever the Democrat party stands for, of course!

Kent18 on September 26, 2013 at 8:22 PM

That’s about the size of it… Republicans who can’t understand the meaning of the word: republic.

ajacksonian on September 26, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Cruz is showing the base what greatness looks like and the leadership is terrified because they know they could never do what Cruz is doing. Sort of like a bunch of jealous girls complaining about the new girl getting all the attention. They are angry because now they feel inadequate so they lash out in a passive-aggressive way like talking behind people’s back, spreading gossip, and bitching a lot to anyone who will listen.

I bet you there is lots of ice cream being eaten….

William Eaton on September 26, 2013 at 8:26 PM

Noooo!!!!! Rick Perry, why??

Jack_Burton on September 26, 2013 at 8:14 PM

If you are surprised by that you must not live in Texas. Perry, meh.

txmomof6 on September 26, 2013 at 8:27 PM

I’m not upset at all. I still like Cruz just fine even though I recognize what he’s up to. I’m just expressing my incredulity that so many other people can’t see it.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:24 PM

It is called winning…

William Eaton on September 26, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Let’s not forget that Coburn is best buds with Obama.

Bitter Clinger on September 26, 2013 at 8:30 PM

Being a leader also means you’re not afraid to take political risks and tell people they are wrong when they are wrong. Clearly there are some people out there who don’t want to hear that there was no realistic way to get Obamacare defunded even though it’s the truth. Tom Coburn has the guts to say it and I commend him for it. With others whether it’s that they aren’t as courageous as Coburn or are simply refusing to let a good crisis go to waste, I can’t say.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:23 PM

More BS. The GOP can stop the funding the thing today if they really wanted too. Just don’t fund it. Yeah the dems will let the government shutdown and their echo chamber press corp will assign the blame to the GOP. Who cares? I don’t I actually welcome a government shutdown. The longer the better. Let the dem constituency whine about it. Problem is the GOP ruling class wants it as much as the dems and it’s so obvious.

bgibbs1000 on September 26, 2013 at 8:30 PM

Coburn is my senator, and I have supported him for years. Unfortunately, he has been infected by the diseased McCain. As a doctor, he should cure himself.

Tom, It does you and the country no good for you to be Pollyana with your political foes. They are not concerned with the American people (except to keep them in line) or you, and they use you and con you into easing off. You can have disagreements within the Republican party, but when you attack republicans who disagree with you, you become a RINO and play into the hands of the dhimocrapts. The dhimpcrapts are not going to do you any favors; they just use you. You’ve been conned for so long, you think that is just the way it is.

Old Country Boy on September 26, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Oh, you are trolling. Never mind.

Meremortal on September 26, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Coburn points out that if we take Cruz’s stated goals at face value his tactics are ineffective and that makes Coburn a RINO. I point out the Coburn is correct and that makes me a troll.

Sure, why not? The truth is anathema to some on our side these days. smh

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:49 PM

More BS. The GOP can stop the funding the thing today if they really wanted too. Just don’t fund it. Yeah the dems will let the government shutdown and their echo chamber press corp will assign the blame to the GOP. Who cares? I don’t. I actually welcome a government shutdown. The longer the better. Let the dem constituency whine about it. Problem is the GOP ruling class wants it as much as the dems and it’s so obvious.

bgibbs1000 on September 26, 2013 at 8:30 PM

The problem for our elected representatives is a large majority of the American people don’t see it that way, and there is no realistic probability of achieving our stated objectives. Thomas Sowell said it perfectly; the effort is futile and foredoomed and the strategy is high risk, low yield.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:54 PM

The problem for our elected representatives is a large majority of the American people don’t see it that way, and there is no realistic probability of achieving our stated objectives. Thomas Sowell said it perfectly; the effort is futile and foredoomed and the strategy is high risk, low yield.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:54 PM

You are wrong and have been brainwashed by the establishment of both political parties. Both want this it’s obvious. They both know it’s a train wreck and they both want it to be a train wreck for the same reason but are playing good cop bad cop and you fall for it. It’s the excuse they can use to push single payer and that’s what’s coming to save us all from the train wreck. Oh yeah the GOP will scream and howl and say they tried to stop single payer but couldn’t. And the status quo of movement toward tyranny and total government control of our lives will continue.

bgibbs1000 on September 26, 2013 at 9:01 PM

Chuckles3 on September 26, 2013 at 7:43 PM

+ 100..Very solid post..:)

Dire Straits on September 26, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Poor Tom Coburn playing the victim AGAIN.

mobydutch on September 26, 2013 at 9:20 PM

Tom Coburn is a conservative..:)

Dire Straits on September 26, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Seriously, people are going to turn on Coburn? Talk about a circular firing squad. You what my concern is? How about a 21 year-old Army E-4 with two kids and no paycheck due to a govt. shutdown. Worse, the spouse of that 21 yo E-4 who has to deal with this while he is deployed.
The Opinionator on September 26, 2013 at 7:00 PM

You don’t get it. Whenever govt employees or SS recipients don’t get their checks it is because the executive office made a conscious decision to withhold them. Not congress. If there is a withholding of funds the POTUS has discretion in prioritizing where limited funds will go. In the squester Oboobi made a calculation that he could take away 8 hrs a week for months to force them to scream and in turn get congress to cave. Was it necessary? only if you’re willing to use paychecks as a political pawn to get your way. Meanwhile the dod is still throwing away billions on green tech and other nonsuch. A POTUS that put people first would have cut discretionary and frivolous spending before touching one paycheck.

That is the reality and for you to accept the lib’s malefeasance as some sort of truth requires the mindless suspension of wisdom.

Do you not remember how just a year and half ago how Oboobi threatened the SS paychecks if the GOP called his bluff? Same script different outcome because the GOPe caved. Conservatives are sick of it and if Oboobi wants to make the servicemen suffer so be it because it wouldn’t last long if the GOP had balls to force him to back down and cut elsewhere.

AH_C on September 26, 2013 at 9:31 PM

His long term plan is to continue grandstanding and throwing red meat at the base so they will support him if and when he seeks the presidency in 2016.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Exactly. Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Allen West, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and all other politicians who advocate smaller government? Cynical phonies looking to steal gullible peoples’ cash. Boehner, McConnell, McCain? Hardworking servants of the people. /

Sure, why not? The truth is anathema to some on our side these days. smh

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:49 PM

The truth is we are $17 trillion dollars in debt and heading to national bankruptcy, likely within the next decade and maybe within the next five years. Your “plan” is to apparently trash the people trying to do something about it while working hard to protect the people acting as obstacles to reform.

Doomberg on September 26, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Colburn was a hard line conservative……about 7-8 years ago. He has been sucked into the Senate colleague vortex a few years ago. I can’t remember the last time he went against the establishment.

As for Perry, its the same explanation Rand Paul wasn’t whole hog on board……He’s probably thinking about running against Cruz in 2016.

I think if we can get real concessions in the two negotiations, I can live without stopping Obamacare yet. However, watching the
“conservative” media and Republican establishment is what is causing me to be less enthusiastic about 2014. Not the likely reality that Obamacare will not be defunded yet.

KMav on September 26, 2013 at 9:33 PM

James Inhofe is a conservative. :)

mobydutch on September 26, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Exactly. Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Allen West, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and all other politicians who advocate smaller government? Cynical phonies looking to steal gullible peoples’ cash. Boehner, McConnell, McCain? Hardworking servants of the people. /

It’s not all about securing support in advance of a presidential bid. The Cruz effort, futile and foredoomed as it may be, is clearly popular with a segment of the conservative base. Some people might be playing the audience before their next book comes out. Some of them might be bad at math or lack a basic understanding of politics. Who knows?

McConnell does happen to be correct here. If anything we should be applauding the fact that he’s finally managed to do something right.

The truth is we are $17 trillion dollars in debt and heading to national bankruptcy, likely within the next decade and maybe within the next five years.

No argument from me on any of this.

Your “plan” is to apparently trash the people trying to do something about it while working hard to protect the people acting as obstacles to reform.

Doomberg on September 26, 2013 at 9:32 PM

My plan is to fight the battles we can win and not fight when the deck is stacked against us and we’re guaranteed to lose. This is like a poker game where we’ve got a bad hand because the other side has stacked the deck. If you’re in that situation you don’t keep raising.

Look, I have no doubt both of our hearts are in the right place, it’s a matter of can we do any good with this fight here and now. What I and Coburn and McConnell are admitting is that we can’t. I hate that we’re in this position but my personal opinion doesn’t change the calculation, and recognizing that fact is not a reason to question anyone’s conservative credentials.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Look if someone can explain the endgame here to me I am all ears

Give me a program or department that has been shut down. The holier than thou bill bennett was charged with shutting down the department of education by Ronald Reagan almost 30 years ago when the monstrosity wasn’t even 10 years old at the time. How did that go? He brags about turning down money in his budget as if that was an accomplishment. The thing is a malignant money hole. planned parenthood gets over 300 million dollars of our tax money every year and it is an “untouchable”. Every single strategy must be attempted as the opportunity arises. obamacare is the nail in the coffin for our republic. You don’t sit back and wait to fight another day because there will never be another day.

peacenprosperity on September 26, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Remember when Coburn SABOTAGED the ‘cut , cap, and balance’ plan a few years ago?

At the time, he claimed he had no idea that Obama was going to RUN to a camera and tout how WONDERFULL this undefined gang of six plan was!

On further review, I must retract my earlier comment.

Coburn is a useless Washington insider posing to confuse the people! IF he decides to rescind his pledge to leave the Senate, he MUST be Removed in the next PRIMARY!

Freddy on September 26, 2013 at 10:19 PM

Terrye on September 26, 2013 at 7:58 PM

The republicans do not have the power to shut down the government. The democrats and the president will make that decision and even then, our bills get paid, by law, and the checks keep going out automatically. Unessential (which should be all) federal workers get time off. The government has been shut down around 18 times since the Reagan years. No catastrophe ensued. Anyone who jumps on the “the republicans want to shut down the government” bandwagon is either a liberal or dangerously ignorant.

peacenprosperity on September 26, 2013 at 10:20 PM

James Inhofe is a conservative. :)

mobydutch on September 26, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Yes…and Coburn, who is a doctor, should have been down there supporting Cruz.

monalisa on September 26, 2013 at 10:20 PM

As for Perry, its the same explanation Rand Paul wasn’t whole hog on board……He’s probably thinking about running against Cruz in 2016.

Perry was just on the other side of Wendy Davis’ filibuster. It was all about her and the media fawned over it…but the bill passed when Perry called a special session back. Perry criticized the “tactics” but he’s been a staunch opponent of Obamacare since forever.

monalisa on September 26, 2013 at 10:23 PM

These people make asses out of themselves. So they don’t agree with Cruz, great, tell him in private. Grow up for goodness sake.

Cindy Munford on September 26, 2013 at 10:24 PM

I was listening to Levine on the way home. Our government shut down every year during the Carter administration. Apparently it has shut down around 18 times. And yet here we are. Not the end of the world.

Cindy Munford on September 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM

Being a leader also means you’re not afraid to take political risks and tell people they are wrong when they are wrong. Clearly there are some people out there who don’t want to hear that there was no realistic way to get Obamacare defunded even though it’s the truth. Tom Coburn has the guts to say it and I commend him for it. With others whether it’s that they aren’t as courageous as Coburn or are simply refusing to let a good crisis go to waste, I can’t say.

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:23 PM

You could be absolutely correct. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter if you’re correct at this point. The GOP argument for years has been, “wait until next election! Then we’ll get things done when in full control!”. Yet, nothing ever gets done. The politicos are afraid of losing their jobs. You can be so pragmatic that you compromise your beliefs away.

oryguncon on September 26, 2013 at 10:45 PM

Coburn, et al, have done very little, if anything, to sell conservatism. If they spent more time selling it than telling the world how impotent they are since they don’t have every branch of govt, I could have more sympathy. But they don’t. They behave like whining prima donas having a sulk. The drama of young adolescent females is more tolerable than these guys. On top of the sulking they gave us the “We’re gonna fight them next time” act with next time never materializing. Cruz demonstrated what they should have been doing all along. So they can stuff it. We have some young guys coming in that want to kick some butt, and these jerks are petty and nasty to them. Winners would be welcoming and embracing these highly motivated and energized guys. These old dogs need to move on if they can’t get the energy to fight. Better for them to leave while they have some laurels left to rest on than sticking around and proving that not only are they losers, but jerks too.

Charm on September 26, 2013 at 10:55 PM

So let’s just screw over millions of Americans and destroy the economy so someone who works for the government isn’t put into the same situations the rest of this country faces on a daily basis.

Sorry… I’ve got no sympathy for someone on the federal gravy train who might have to miss a meal.

Wendya on September 26, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Are you fracking serious? You really think of our men and women in uniform as someone on the Federal Gravy Train? Get this jackwagon, they earn that check and willingly put their backsides on the line for an ingrate like you. So you will sit there fat, dumb and happy while a junior enlisted member of the military takes the hit? And how about their kids? When they raised their right hand, did they offer to suffer so you can have your tantrum? I have been a junior enlisted member and can tell you that there is not a lot of wiggle room in the budget at the low end of the spectrum. But at least you will eat, eh?

The Opinionator on September 26, 2013 at 11:00 PM

Okay, there is a lot wrong with your comments but let’s start with the biggest lie. Even during a shutdown the active duty military are considered essential employees and are paid. And frankly a 21-year-old E-4 with two kids has no business making more. Maybe the deployment is a good thing.

You sure about that? I know mil members preparing for a loss of income. And DoD civilians are definitely going to get hit. And maybe they have no business making more kids. But that is their business, not yours. I thought only liberals liked to tell people how to live. I tell you what, if you feel so strongly that we shut it down, and if military and/or DoD go without pay, you give up your paycheck as well. Kinda like how Congress ought to be subject to ObamaCare, you should be willing to sacrifice as well.

The Opinionator on September 26, 2013 at 11:07 PM

I think that it would be good to remember that the path to victory may not be a single path but multiple paths, or even a convoluted tangle.

Senator Cruz’s efforts would not affect PPACA in any measurable form, but who knows what might pop out at some point in the future that may make his little futile filibuster look like some brilliant (of course in hindsight) strategic or tactical move. I know, yeah, right.

If you restrict yourself to one predictable line of advance your opposition can prepare defenses and counter-measures that make you way much more difficult.

I agree that the defunding effort would be futile, under the circumstances, but I think there could some set of circumstances where doing something else might prove advantageous.

Russ808 on September 27, 2013 at 1:39 AM

Well, it doesn’t help you’ve got some conservative activists calling congressional offices and frothing at the mouth. They probably don’t have a clue what is going on, but they’ve been set in a direction by their masters. It’s the Political Stepford Wives or something.

Add to that mix, you most likely have trolls who are calling and amping up the vitriol, saying vile things.

All this begs for a coordinated strategy by the leaders in Congress.

Here’s an idea; how about they all sit in a room, get their mugs off TV and start agreeing on a single direction.

No. That’s crazy- right?

Marcus Traianus on September 27, 2013 at 8:15 AM

More likely he’s a RINO because he seems so willing to join the Left in attacking Conservatives.

katiejane on September 27, 2013 at 8:21 AM

Okay, there is a lot wrong with your comments but let’s start with the biggest lie. Even during a shutdown the active duty military are considered essential employees and are paid. And frankly a 21-year-old E-4 with two kids has no business making more. Maybe the deployment is a good thing.

My husband was an E-4 in the Clinton shut down. We knew it was coming and prepared. We didn’t get paid for 5 days, big whuup. And I agree an E-4 does not need anymore kids on his salary. The shut down is one of the reasons I started looking into the GOP. I had voted for Clinton, and blamed him for the shutdown.

melle1228 on September 27, 2013 at 8:35 AM

Senator Coburn, you disagree with Cruz because:

1) He did not acknowledge your GOP ‘Establishment’ Heirarchy, did not kiss your & John McCain’s ‘Establishment Maffia’ rings, and stepped out on his own to take action against a bill that is harmfrul to America. In doing so, he bruised you friggin’ precious ego, which you hold more important than your oaths of office or promises to your Constituents to ‘fight’ for THEM.

2) Cruz jeopardized ever so slightly your job, your self-serving @hole! Vronyn admitted on Hannity’s radio show that you guys are PETRIFIED of how the Liberals will blame you for shutting down the govt, even though you are too stupid to realize the House just funded the ENTIR govt except for Obamacare and that if the govt is shut down it will be because the Liberals shut it down all over Obamacare. You old f@rts also $uc% at getting your message out….which might be a good thing because your message is usually stupid!

3) Cronyn explained your tactic:
A. DO NOTHING – don’t oppose Obamacare, don’t make waves, & lay low
B. Bet America’s survival on allowing Obamacare to be implemented and for the GOP to win back the Senate
C. Pass legislation that repeals Obamacare
D. Watch Obama VETO that legislation
E. Try to seel the idea to Americans you did everything you could

MORONS!
- Step 1 (A) is all about protecting your own jobs.

- Step 2 (B) is a roll of the dice…one that you GOP ‘Establishment GOP’ imbiciles are about to blow up, as in self-destruct. The media is reporting the GOP is going to demand the Individual Mandate be delayed 1 year…until AFTER the election. Democrats are flocking to support this idea. WHY? The reason the GOP wanted Democrats on the record for voting for Obamacare was to point fingers and blame these Liberals for the PAIN the Individual Mandate was going to cause. THAT PAIN was what was going to get people to change their minds/votes and vote for the GOP. Delaying the Individual Mandate for 1 year, until AFTER the election, eliminates THAT PAIN and therefore saves all of these Liberal Democrats, ensuring they stay in office.

- Step 4 (D) shows you ignorant dinosaurs are ALREADY planning for defeat, KNOW that it will fail….

So why not support Cruz now?

Oh yeah, that’s right….because you all were embarrassed, your egos were bruised, & you collectively said ‘$crew the American people, I have to protect my own job’!

easyt65 on September 27, 2013 at 8:40 AM

melle1228 on September 27, 2013 at 8:35 AM

Military are now considered ‘essential personnel / critical service’ and will be paid in a govt shutdown.

Despite the LIES & fear-mongering in which the Liberals, especially Obama, is engaging, Social Security, Disability, Medicaid, and more – ALL of this is paid in a govt shut down.

Pelosi & Obama declared for the 1st time ever the US will default on its debt…LIE, B$! Once agin they are lying directly into the faces of the American people just as shamelessly Bill Clinton stared into the cameras and declared, “I did not have sex with this woman’! During a govt shut down part of the mandatory spending that is conducted is paying off the interest on that debt, ensuring the US does NOT default!

Of course people are too STUPID to check these facts for themselves – they belive Obama wouldn’t lie to us/them. I mean, it’s not like he has ever done so before, right?!

His hand-picked Atty General became the 1st ever to be Censured for perpetrating 3 Felony Counts of Perjury before Congress…

Ovbamacare:
– It won’t cost a dime, will pay for itself, will pay down the deficit, every meeting will be on TV, you wil lhave 48 hours to read the legislation before a vote is taken, no special deals will be in the bill, it will lower the cost of health care, it will not cause you to lose your job, you can keep the Insurance you have, there will be no rationing of health care, the government will not dictate to doctors what treatments they can and can’t perform, this law does not institute any taxes as Obamacare will not be paid by taxes…
- $65 Milliion is already missing from a tax-payer funded Obamacare slush fund – no one knows where the money is
- Millions of tax dollars were spent so far on ad campaigns to make a passed law ‘popular’

NSA/Spying:
Obama & the NSA have labeled every single American as a ‘threat to the United States’, which was required to get an Un-Constitutional blanket subpoena to spy on everyone…the NSA admits they break the law thousands of times a year in this spying.

Moo, moo, moo… the ‘herd’ moves along…baaa, baa, baa…the SHEEP believe and follow this man despite the fact that he lies to them, shears them, & leads them to ‘slaughter’.

STOP BLINDLY FOLLOWING GOVT, especially this ‘President’ who has proved he is a LIAR & THREAT to the U.S. time and again!

easyt65 on September 27, 2013 at 8:53 AM

I hope the circular firing squad we are seeing in the GOP that only serves the interests of its opponents runs out of ammunition soon. A House divided against itself cannot stand and may see the Hastert rule abondoned in despair.

KW64 on September 27, 2013 at 9:24 AM

I just started reading the postings and WOW! there are some intelligent ones after sifting through the usual idiot postings!

I found this from a poster on another site:

A “yes” vote on cloture cuts off debate; then Harry Reid only needs 51 votes.

A “no” vote on cloture extends debate; then Harry Reid needs
60 votes, not 51.

Back to reading the excellent responses!

BTW, I don’t know about anyone else, however I get better information from the comments from intelligent posters (this doesn’t mean you “bluegill”, “libfreeordie”, etc.) than I do from Hot Air’s
articles themselves (no offense). I am sure this is by design!

Amjean on September 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM

I’m glad Perry exposed himself here. Now I hope he just goes away.

cdog0613 on September 27, 2013 at 10:38 AM

Unfortunately, Tom, you are a RINO. I hate to say it, but my definition is that if you are a Republican and have allowed Barack Hussein Obama to get as far as he has at fundamentally changing the USofA and not been ACTIVELY trying to stop it, you are a RINO. Just voting against him when you are in the minority isn’t going to accomplish anything and hasn’t. Until Rand Paul showed up all of the Republican wimps just sat by and kept voting no, but they were outnumbered. That was their excuse and it apparently it is Tom’s also. They have let the Democrats run all over them, allowed Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, the press, Jay Carney, Barack Obama and the whole crew to call them names. When it came to gun control the NRA had to pull out all of the stops to halt the Left. No help from the Republicans. Yes, Tom, not only are you a RINO, you and the rest of the crew are WIMPS. Avoid a confrontation at any cost because you might lose???? You are worse than wimps. None dare call it treason, but…….

BetseyRoss on September 26, 2013 at 7:23 PM

Yes,this!

Amjean on September 27, 2013 at 10:41 AM

I am still of the opinion that Obama has “the goods” on some of these repubs and under threat of exposure of real or faux accusations of wrongdoing they are now doing his bidding.

They can’t all be this stupid, can they?

Amjean on September 27, 2013 at 10:44 AM

As far as Rick Perry goes; he is not a conservative or a liberal;
Perry is what we might call an “opportunist”. Don’t trust him
when the chips are down.

Amjean on September 27, 2013 at 10:45 AM

The Ted Cruz litmus test does not make me a RINO, it’s makes me no longer a Republican. Done with it.

charlesbird on September 27, 2013 at 10:50 AM

The truth is anathema to some on our side these days. smh

alchemist19 on September 26, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Physician, heal thyself.

Dunedainn on September 27, 2013 at 11:27 AM

Tom Coburn is a conservative..:)

Dire Straits on September 26, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Oh, Mr. Smiley. So cute in your naivete.:)

Dunedainn on September 27, 2013 at 11:32 AM

The Ted Cruz litmus test does not make me a RINO, it’s makes me no longer a Republican. Done with it.

charlesbird on September 27, 2013 at 10:50 AM

No, stay, please! You’ll be in good company with Lindsey Grahamnesty and Benedict McCain.

The John McCain litmus test does not make me a RINO, it has driven me away from the Republican party.

Dunedainn on September 27, 2013 at 11:41 AM

The John McCain litmus test does not make me a whacko bird, it has driven me away from the Republican party.

Dunedainn on September 27, 2013 at 11:41 AM

FIFMS

Dunedainn on September 27, 2013 at 11:42 AM

The real problem IMO, beside Coburn being a filthy coward attacking Cruz on NSNBC and not face-to-face, is a lack of GOP leadership. Somebody in the House and Senate that can rally the troops instead of sneer at Tea Party candidates as not pure enough blood to be taken seriously like McCain, Graham, and Boehner.

Happy Nomad on September 26, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Rally the troops to what purpose exactly, to put on a silly, shallow show? We don’t have the votes to defund it, period. So, instead of wasting time focusing on futile gestures such as symbolic votes against Ocare etc, etc, we should focus rather on changing the political spectrum in the senate, that would bring us the needed majority. Division within the party is not the answer and it never will be, it’s the Dems who stand to gain from this and it might cost us the Senate, alas, again, in 2014. But then what’s new…

jimver on September 27, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Oh, Mr. Smiley. So cute in your naivete.:)

Dunedainn on September 27, 2013 at 11:32 AM

If you say so..:):)

Dire Straits on September 27, 2013 at 2:09 PM

jimver on September 27, 2013 at 12:41 PM

+ 100..Agreed..:)

Dire Straits on September 27, 2013 at 2:10 PM

To the nutbar wing, everybody is a RINO by default as soon as they deviate from the nutbar line by a single step in word or deed.

~

Dear Freaks,

Since you hate the Republican Party and all its elected officials and party leaders, why are you still here? I’ve listened to you malcontents whine and threaten to “go third party” for nearly 20 years now, and yet you haven’t moved an inch. Here you sit, complaining as usual.

Seriously, just how many “last straws” does it take? Don’t you realize you look stupid by continually making a threat you never live up to? Either man up and form your fringe party and stop worrying about and participating in Republican debates and primaries, or STFU please.

Besides, how can we miss you when you just won’t go away?

Sincerely,

The Non-spittle-flecked GOP Majority

Adjoran on September 27, 2013 at 2:34 PM

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