Starbucks CEO: Leave your guns at home from now on, please

posted at 1:21 pm on September 18, 2013 by Allahpundit

Here’s his letter about it to the company. It’s just a request, not a ban. If he made it a ban, then employees would have to enforce it. And he’s quite candid about his misgivings over putting an unarmed worker in the position of telling someone who’s packing that they’re unwelcome.

Lots of grumbling about this on Twitter this morning, which surprised me. Surely there can’t be that much overlap between fans of open carry and fans of pumpkin spice lattes. Turns out I had missed the news about “Starbucks Appreciation Day” by gun owners last month, though. This isn’t just a change in policy by some random company; this is a company that had been notably respectful of gun rights and commended for it by aficionados deciding that it was all a big mistake. No mystery as to why, either. Sonny Bunch is spot on:

What’s interesting to me is that it’s obvious Schultz has no fear of guns (nor should he; when’s the last time there was a mass-shooting at a Starbucks perpetrated by someone with an open-carry permit?). No. He fears the left. And he doesn’t fear the right.

These are all sensible positions for him to take…

The left … does the politicized life exceptionally well. They mount campaigns to pressure corporations to get what they want. They organize boycotts. They direct their complaints to gatekeepers who share their views and can influence policy. They blacklist artists with whom they disagree and pressure corporations to do the same. They control the levers of the media to add additional pressure from newspapers and television networks.

So there will be a lot of fulmination on social media from those on the right about rights and guns and the Constitution, and then a little less the next day, and a little less the day after that, until finally you forgot why you were mad at Starbucks and you stop tweeting and facebooking and kvetching and start buying pumpkin spice lattes by the bucketful and, in a moment of clarity, you’ll think about how silly it was for you to give up Starbucks in the name of something that literally never impacted you in the first place because you don’t have an open-carry permit.

Exactly. Whatever little extra business Starbucks gets from gun owners on the annual “Appreciation Day” would be washed away by the business lost once the left’s intelligentsia finally decides Something Must Be Done about the company’s tolerance for gun rights. Schultz is getting ahead of a backlash by backing down now so that he doesn’t look even weaker by backing down later after a liberal boycott takes effect. Hopefully this half-assed “request, not a ban” position will mollify them while reassuring gun owners that if they simply can’t bear to be without the pumpkin spice while they have their weapon on them, they’re welcome to come in. Unless your business is designed to be overtly conservative, staying on the left’s good side is usually in your economic interest even if it means alienating righties. Imagine how many wedding-industry professionals have learned a lesson from stories like this one to extend their services to gay couples, whether they have an objection to gay marriage or not.

Exit quotation: “There are times when I feel like America has lost its conscience.”


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

Surely there can’t be that much overlap between fans of open carry and fans of pumpkin spice lattes.

Oh really? Here in Wisconsin, I’m not the only CC-loving, SUV-driving mother who frequents the Starbucks drive-thru window. Am I missing the reason we can’t we love the second amendment as well as syrupy coffee drinks with whipped cream and sprinkles?

Of course, “pumpkin spice latte” is just a dogwhistle for “chick drink.” This post is sexist!

girlscout on September 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

A gun free zone.Most who go there have money and the robbers know it.Dillinger was asked why he robbed banks.”That’s where the money is”,he said.We need a tote board of Starbucks robberies.

docflash on September 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

No offense, Allahpundit, but your entire analysis is horse squeeze but obviously arises from a lack of awareness about the history of the whole Starbucks and OC movement.

Starbucks, like WalMart, Home Depot and several other stores, within the last decade made public their store position that they will just follow whatever the state/local laws of store locations as to carrying firearms, concealed or openly. For various reasons, about 3 years ago Starbucks became a meeting place of choice for those actively supporting normalizing and legalizing open carry of sidearms.

Well, coffee klatches between OC supporters started becoming events for OC supporters and eventually Starbucks became a nexus point for OC activists with accompanying anti-gun types in the aftermath of Newtown. Sometime in the last two years or so the whole “Starbucks Appreciation Day” and paying for your purchase with $2 bills got started.

Starbucks issued several quiet statements essentially telling activists on either side that they just wanted to sell coffee and to take their gun agendas somewhere else. The OC activists instead escalated their “support” which got the other side all riled up in response. Many of us active in the OC movement but not activists per se, myself included, saw this eventual train wreck and warned the activists that Starbucks was trying to tell them to just knock it off and leave them out of it. Go have your coffee, carry, don’t carry, just shut up about it either way and have your coffee. The activists instead got louder and even started carrying slung rifles, where legal, into Starbucks, showing up en masse OC and looking for a rally. What they saw as supporting Starbucks was ticking off the bigger customer base of Starbucks who demographically are not generally pro-2A.

Now the inevitable has happened. Starbucks really is sick of being in the middle of it as they have said numerous times in numerous ways over the last 2 years so now they are being more direct.

Notice,they did not ban firearms, state they were going to post “no firearms” signs or ask people to leave for carrying. I think this is all corporate speak to the activists to finally, once and for all, leave Starbucks out of it. Obviously, the policy as stated, means that if Joe Citizen open carry guy who doesn’t follow the news stops by to get a latte choco mocho whatever they sell, he is going to walk in with his gun, buy his stuff, drink it and leave and be none the wiser. BUT the activist types are going to have a near impossible time of denying knowledge that the CEO said their guns were unwelcome making a trespass threat in case of an masse arrival or a rally more viable or enforceable.

So I don’t think they have changed their essentially libertarian position. As a strong 2A advocate, OC supporter, daily carrier, and business owner, I totally support Starbucks in their handling of this. Threading the needle between activists on both sides is difficult. The idea that this is a right/left no fear/fear is erroneous. The 2A activists are a tenacious bunch and Starbucks knows that as they have been trying to get rid of their blatant support, without alienating non-activist 2A types, for nearly 3 years. This decision placates neither pro or anti 2A types and leaves plenty for both to be mad about but it does essentially put the blame for Starbucks being in the middle where it belongs – on the OC activists, which is why they are the ones directly targeted here.

deepdiver on September 18, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Get the word out!

Starbucks is a Gun-free Zone!

Maybe he’ll put up a little 8″ green/black/white target sticker on the front doors?

ROCnPhilly on September 18, 2013 at 2:40 PM

I don’t need a vente chai tea vanilla latte that badly. Goodnight, Starbucks.

beatcanvas on September 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

I bought a T-shirt this morning from Dunkin Donuts… Friends don’t let friends drink starbucks coffee :-)

And I live in an area that is dominated by Starbucks… they outnumber Dunkin by abt 8-1… regardless… I don’t mind driving a few miles to get my coffee…

AND I don’t own a gun…. But I truly respect the right to bear arms….

antisocial on September 18, 2013 at 2:43 PM

OK, I see an small niche for the Bass Pro-shop coffee houses. Try our new Ammopuccino.

Oil Can on September 18, 2013 at 2:43 PM

I can’t figure out why anyone who actually likes coffee goes to Starbucks, anyway, regardless of this gun advisory.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 18, 2013 at 1:32 PM

I never liked Starbucks’ coffee anyway, even when I could drink any kind of coffee at all. Can’t even drink the coffee I brew (and which I preferred) at home any more. :(

I tried Starbucks once and it tasted like hot, bitter sludge. An ex-barista once told me that they roast their coffee beans to the point of burning them, then they brew them.

PatriotGal2257 on September 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

deepdiver on September 18, 2013 at 2:40 PM

From everything I’ve seen/read here in WI, you’ve got it right.

M240H on September 18, 2013 at 2:46 PM

I live in Massachusetts, there’s one on every corner, and all the kids in my family thinks Starbucks is it.
CaptFlood on September 18, 2013 at 2:14 PM

I also live in MA and I don’t think there is a single SB within ten miles of me.

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Not a coffee drinker myself, but my wife is. She tells me Starbuck’s tastes like dishwater.

CurtZHP on September 18, 2013 at 2:35 PM

They charge you $3 and then tell you put in the cream and sugar.
For $1.50, it’s full service at Dunkin Ds.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Starbucks was perfectly fine having persons with concealed weapons in their stores. Then some fools on the gun-rights side decided to be morons, and make a huge deal, including open carry and holding a gun rights event at the Newtown Starbucks

I am a strong pro-gun, pro-Second Amendment gun nut. Having said that, this outcome is solely and exclusively the fault of the fools who decided to create a scene. There was absolutely no reason to take actions which are calculated to piss off anti-gunners, and make it easy to convince the vast majority of neutrals (like Starbucks, gang!) that they don’t want the controversy. Rather than just live and let live, a small bunch of misguided activists decided to set up an event where, predictably, tempers would flare and Starbucks did what they should do — tell everyone we don’t want your political fight in our place.

Pro-gunners: you are not going to convince anyone by being obnoxious. Just like gay rights activists don’t win anyone over with their Berlin Love Parade, so you aren’t going to get people to understand that CCW holders are normal people by walking in with exposed firearms in places where it’s not the norm.

We are living in a time where in most of the US, people aren’t used to that. The way you get them acclimated to the idea of persons chosing to have a firearm for self-defense is by being normal — that is, concealed it!

So, instead of slowly getting people used to that as the new normal, now you’ve forced Starbucks to ban any guns in their stores. Which means, people like me who both have firearms and like a nice Mocha are in a conundrum. Which was created not by Starbucks, but by foolish activists.

Next time, remember the four rules of gun safety, one of which is to know your target and what’s beyond it.

FiveG on September 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM

OK, I see an small niche for the Bass Pro-shop coffee houses. Try our new Ammopuccino.

Oil Can on September 18, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Sizes like Short, Standard, +P, or Magnum
And put it in a high capacity assault mug….

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 2:50 PM

Nerd.

I couldn’t even make it all the way through that thing. Starbucks should rent this boring idiot to hospitals that can’t afford general anesthesia.

Also, ‘Poppy Harlow’? Did she miss her chance to be a pole dancer?

This is a nauseating Lib gay-fest. Screw Starbucks. If I wasn’t currently on probation, I’d open carry in one of their hell-holes right now just because I saw this.

WhatSlushfund on September 18, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Can’t even drink the coffee I brew (and which I preferred) at home any more. :(
PatriotGal2257 on September 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Same here. I use to drink it and was very into grinding and brewing my own. Now it makes me sick and I have to run to the head within 5mins of drinking some. It’s one of the best laxatives I know of.

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 18, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Pro-gunners: you are not going to convince anyone by being obnoxious. Just like gay rights activists don’t win anyone over with their Berlin Love Parade, so you aren’t going to get people to understand that CCW holders are normal people by walking in with exposed firearms in places where it’s not the norm.
FiveG on September 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM

My only counter to any of what you said is, the gay rights crowd does in fact appear to be getting everything they want as a result of being in-your-face obnoxious about it….

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 2:54 PM

From everything I’ve seen/read here in WI, you’ve got it right.

M240H on September 18, 2013 at 2:46 PM

Thanks!

I have the perspective advantage of being inside the OC movement when the Starbucks stuff all started and, although in the “geesh, just leave them alone and let them be neutral and shop there normally all of which only helps normalize OC which is the prerequisite in many places to obtaining statewide OC and preemption protecting it camp” as opposed to the “Hey, let’s exploit the heck out of Starbucks’ libertarian position and make their predominate customer base uncomfortable by provoking near confrontations to somehow force people to accept OC by making them extremely uncomfortable for no reason camp” (our camps around here have very long but descriptive names) I was very familiar with both side especially in on line forums where I was very active.

deepdiver on September 18, 2013 at 2:54 PM

“Guns should not be part of the Starbucks experience.”

Then stop putting gunpowder in the coffee.

RadClown on September 18, 2013 at 2:54 PM

I think Shultz is less saying anything about guns, than he is annoyed by some people being obnoxious and inconsiderate.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 2:22 PM

You shouldn’t be talking about yourself that way.

chemman on September 18, 2013 at 2:55 PM

Same here. I use to drink it and was very into grinding and brewing my own. Now it makes me sick and I have to run to the head within 5mins of drinking some. It’s one of the best laxatives I know of.

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 18, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Yeah, I hear you. I used to be able to drink it all day and I had a fab iced coffee recipe I used to love in the summers. Now I get the digestive issues also and my blood pressure spikes as if I just hit the bell with a mallet at a carnival game.

PatriotGal2257 on September 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Absolutely.

I can’t figure out why anyone who actually likes coffee goes to Starbucks, anyway, regardless of this gun advisory.

Starbucks actually BANNED e-cigs since they seemed to irk the douchebags who frequent that rattrap. The idea that someone is enjoying nicotine, evidently, drives them up a wall. Again, Shultz has every right to run his business as he wants but anyone with a brain would avoid that place like the Plague … which is what the coffee tastes like.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 18, 2013 at 1:32 P

Hilarious. Get your damn nicotine out of our caffeine bar!

slickwillie2001 on September 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Anybody who carries around a firearm provocatively to make a point is just being an a-hole and setting back the cause. If you really want to advance gun rights then just act like a regular person who happens to be armed. People are going to be far more accepting if this is the face of gun owners that they see. The flamboyant gun owners are like the people you see in gay parades dressed in leather contraptions with their balls hanging out.

Mark1971 on September 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

If they adjusted the pH a bit, their coffee might good for cleaning a bore.
For drinking? Not so much.

justltl on September 18, 2013 at 3:00 PM

And then some felt it would be nice to respond to that by promoting open carry group hangs…including Newtown locations.
I think Shultz is less saying anything about guns, than he is annoyed by some people being obnoxious and inconsiderate.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 2:22 PM

So….if someone legally wants to wear their six-shooters into Starbucks — along, maybe, with jangling spurs — who’s going to stop them?

ddrintn on September 18, 2013 at 3:02 PM

FiveG on September 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM

I live in Arizona that has open carry. The only people that bat an eye are visitors from out of state. Even they get use to it after they see it a few times. What you advocate will never help people get use to it. Even in Flagstaff a very liberal conclave you see people open carry and the libs don’t have a hissy fit.

chemman on September 18, 2013 at 3:05 PM

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 18, 2013 at 2:51 PM
PatriotGal2257 on September 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Getting old sucks, doesn’t it?
I used to drink a lot of brewed coffee, military type hardcore stuff, but I really can’t handle it anymore – for just the reasons you guys mention.
I do have a large flavored latte almost every day at work (very good non-chain coffee shop in our building on base) – I know, that’s foo-foo stuff, but the larger amount of milk seems to minimize my intestinal reactions to the coffee.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Would you and clearbluesky have characterized civil rights activists as jerks using an in-your-face approach? Seriously, would you have said that Rosa Parks was being a jerk about her approach to exercising her rights?

Rosa Parks couldn’t sit in the front of the bus, gun owners were perfectly free, and still are perfectly free, to carry guns in Starbucks where local law allows it. There was no civil rights fight here, gun owners already had their rights and Starbucks respected them, there was no point in making a big deal about it other than the childish temptation to rub the Starbucks hipters noses in it.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 3:07 PM

WGAFF what this “can’t we all get along” nut job thinks

Starbucks Coffee in simple terms sucks.

The industry takes their money for sponsorships such as next year’s SCAA Expo in Seattle but otherwise it’s cringe worthy with statements such as :

Charbucks or

Friends don’t let friends drink Starbucks..

Roast your own!

theblacksheepwasright on September 18, 2013 at 3:12 PM

chemman on September 18, 2013 at 3:05 PM

Unfortunately, you live in the real world. You also live in a part of the country where, liberals or not, firearms have been part of the culture since . . . forever.

Here in the Fantasyland that is the northeast, and in other “enlightened” parts of the country, the populace has created a make-believe world where “Our Kind” doesn’t have guns, and seeing them causes the locals to go crying to Mommy to make the icky stuff stop call the police. Given the unfortunate state of culture here, it’s truly counterproductive to try the OC route, and will be until people get used to the idea that the “normal” guy who lives down the street actually has guns.

You don’t win an argument with provocation.

FiveG on September 18, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Anybody who carries around a firearm their “gayness” provocatively to make a point is just being an a-hole and setting back the cause. If you really want to advance gun “gay” rights then just act like a regular person who happens to be armed use their sexual organs incorrectly.

Mark1971 on September 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

“Gay” trolls, are you listening?

Nutstuyu on September 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

deepdiver on September 18, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Next time, remember the four rules of gun safety, one of which is to know your target and what’s beyond it.

FiveG on September 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Well put.

GWB on September 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

Getting old sucks, doesn’t it?

I used to drink a lot of brewed coffee, military type hardcore stuff, but I really can’t handle it anymore – for just the reasons you guys mention.

I do have a large flavored latte almost every day at work (very good non-chain coffee shop in our building on base) – I know, that’s foo-foo stuff, but the larger amount of milk seems to minimize my intestinal reactions to the coffee.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Yep, it does, and for us females, add menopause to the equation. :)

For a while, I tried “watering down” my coffee with milk, which was the way my mom used to let me drink it as a kid (the horror!), but then the milk itself started giving me digestive issues along with the coffee. [sigh]

PatriotGal2257 on September 18, 2013 at 3:16 PM

FiveG on September 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Again, bull squeeze. This wasn’t about a few events at a handful of locations after a specific event otherwise it would have happened months ago. This wasn’t about OC, CC or any other type of C. This has been long coming for several years due to 2A activist escalation. Starbucks started in WA state which is one of the most permissive OC states in the Union, and in some ways, the most. Starbucks had a libertarian position on the thing. Activists just kept poking the bear until the bear finally roared and said f-off but did it in such a way as to target the activists, placate the antis but have no real effect on the OC/CC regular customers.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Right on point!

deepdiver on September 18, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Now that I read more about it, if Starbucks is talking about open carry, I can see their point (if I wouldn’t necessarily agree with it in their position.) A lot of customers are going to be intimidated sitting next to someone with a visible gun, as any cop looking for a place to take his lunch break will attest to. If Starbucks is still accommodating of concealed carry I’m willing to give them a pass on this one. (Their public statement did not specify the limits of their request, and that may be deliberate to avoid stirring up yet more controversy.)

Socratease on September 18, 2013 at 3:25 PM

I recommend gun owners call the local Starbucks and politely explain to the manager why they lost your business. Maybe point out that criminals and psychopaths target gun free zones, and they are actually making their businesses less safe.

Keep it short and don’t argue. If you make your point and don’t let them get in the corporate response, it will frustrate them even more.

novaculus on September 18, 2013 at 3:29 PM

So….if someone legally wants to wear their six-shooters into Starbucks — along, maybe, with jangling spurs — who’s going to stop them?

ddrintn on September 18, 2013 at 3:02 PM

The fashion police?

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 3:43 PM

1. Wrong. They are NOT perfectly free. People who open carry are often illegally detained, harassed, and arrested by law enforcement. Their efforts are very similar to Rosa Parks.

Yes, they are perfectly free. If you have evidence showing Starbucks is having gun owners arrested then share it with the class.

2. So, you would have objected to Rosa Parks sitting in the front of the bus IF it had been LEGAL for her to do so? This is truly a strange position.

Only thing strange around here is your bizzare interpretation of what i wrote.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Ok first I am a gun owner, CC license owner and 2nd A advocate and I HATE open carry folks. Frankly I think they hurt the second amendment debate much more than they help us. First problem I have with open carry is that I have never thought it was wise tactically. I would never want to show anyone I had a gun until it was took late for them. I think you are more likely to have someone try and start something with you because you have a visible weapon on you than not. Military and police are exempt from this because they need to show force to deter bad people from doing bad acts, or using that weapon to stop the act. Second problem with open carry is that it makes non gun people nervous. I never tell my mom I am carrying concealed; she always thinks the gun is going to go off by itself and shoot me and everyone around me. I can walk into any place and have a normal conversation with everyone because they have no idea I have a gun, if I was open carrying they would run away. Also can we all agree that open carrying an AR15 is just dumb, I mean really. I am honestly kind of fed up with the open carry crowd, you don’t have much of a point and you just need to stop you really make things worse.

falcaner on September 18, 2013 at 3:50 PM

Will not be drinking my coffee at Starbucks if I can’t be sure with a stupid advertisement like this: No Guns in this shop.

avagreen on September 18, 2013 at 3:53 PM

I have never “carried” into a Starbucks,,, and now I will never go into a Starbucks – ever again.

jake-the-goose on September 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 18, 2013 at 2:51 PM
PatriotGal2257 on September 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Getting old sucks, doesn’t it?
I used to drink a lot of brewed coffee, military type hardcore stuff, but I really can’t handle it anymore – for just the reasons you guys mention.
I do have a large flavored latte almost every day at work (very good non-chain coffee shop in our building on base) – I know, that’s foo-foo stuff, but the larger amount of milk seems to minimize my intestinal reactions to the coffee.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Any of you quit smoking before you started to have your coffee related issues? I can’t drink energy drinks, or really strong coffee since I quit smoking a few years ago.

DFCtomm on September 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Was it too difficult for Starbucks to craft a statement that says:

Our company respects the civil rights of its patrons and we respect the laws of the locales we are in. We ask that you do the same. If you have a political agenda the place to have it is out there on the public sidewalk, and to keep the noise level down so you are not a public nuisance to our patrons. Your agenda is not our agenda. Our agenda is to serve our patrons in a civil atmosphere. If you wish to be uncivil or seek to violate the civil rights of others at our establishment, we will ask you to leave until you learn some manners.

Would that be so terribly hard to put together?

ajacksonian on September 18, 2013 at 3:57 PM

No, they aren’t “perfectly free”. Do you actually need me to link to youtube video of people being arrested/charged simply because they were open carrying a firearm at Starbucks? Right now, people in Starbucks (both employees and customers) call police and police are using those calls to trump up Disturbing the Peace charges. There is absolutely no way for you to claim that they are perfectly free. It’s just dead wrong.

Yes, please link the you tube video of a Starbucks employee having a gun owner arrested, i’ll be more than happy to say you have a point if that’s the case.

You claimed that it was ok for Rosa Parks to refuse to move to the back of the bus was because it was illegal for her to do so. That implies that you wouldn’t have supported Rosa Parks refusal if she had been merely exercising her legal right.

No, it states clearly that your comparison of Rosa Parks on the bus and gun owners at Starpucks isn’t an apt one.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 3:58 PM

falcaner on September 18, 2013 at 3:50 PM

Just when I thought this thread was getting dull!

stvnscott on September 18, 2013 at 3:58 PM

Any of you quit smoking before you started to have your coffee related issues? I can’t drink energy drinks, or really strong coffee since I quit smoking a few years ago.

DFCtomm on September 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Never smoked. Coffee (mainly brewed coffee) just started messing with my digestive system a few years back. But I was drinking a lot of coffee back then – very strong (stand a spoon up in it) kind of military style brewed stuff.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Getting old sucks, doesn’t it?

I used to drink a lot of brewed coffee, military type hardcore stuff, but I really can’t handle it anymore – for just the reasons you guys mention.

I do have a large flavored latte almost every day at work (very good non-chain coffee shop in our building on base) – I know, that’s foo-foo stuff, but the larger amount of milk seems to minimize my intestinal reactions to the coffee.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Yep, it does, and for us females, add menopause to the equation. :)

For a while, I tried “watering down” my coffee with milk, which was the way my mom used to let me drink it as a kid (the horror!), but then the milk itself started giving me digestive issues along with the coffee. [sigh]

PatriotGal2257
on September 18, 2013 at 3:16 PM

I’ve never ever been able to drink brew coffee….too much acid.

So, I’ve drank Folgers Freeze Dried for years….with milk. :) It tastes the same and I don’t miss the brewed stuff. At least I don’t get sick to my stomach or have jitters after drinking my morning joe.

avagreen on September 18, 2013 at 3:59 PM

No, they aren’t “perfectly free”. Do you actually need me to link to youtube video of people being arrested/charged simply because they were open carrying a firearm at Starbucks?

blink on September 18, 2013 at 3:53 PM

They were charged with disorderly conduct – not open carrying.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 3:59 PM

blink on September 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM

How many times do i have to point out that Starbucks was, and is respecting the rights of gun owners? Do you not understand that? You’re looking for a fight with a company that isn’t giving you one, you’re the problem, not Starbucks.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 4:02 PM

I’ve never understood the deal with Starbucks. It’s overpriced and tasted like s#it. I’ve had plenty of coffee in my life as I spent 9 years in the Navy and have traveled the world. Coffee in Europe is waaaay better than this crap.

Oh, and there is only one way to make a good cup o’ Joe…use a French Press. They work!

BierManVA on September 18, 2013 at 4:03 PM

People will be far more accepting as they become desensitized to open carry. The only way to do that is more open carry.

blink on September 18, 2013 at 3:38 PM

Like maybe walk around holding 12 guns?
Though you’ll need one hand free to hold your coffee.
Wait!
How about if your gun had a coffee holder attached it?
Like you see on baby strollers and stuff.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 4:05 PM

falcaner on September 18, 2013 at 3:50 PM

The only problem with that is a lot of states, especially in the west, were “open carry” long before they legalized concealed carry.
As I recall, prior to the push for “shall issue” concealed carry, the anti-gun types were more afraid of concealed carry because with CC they couldn’t tell who was armed. If you were openly carrying, people at least knew you were armed.
Now it seems to be CC is ok because we can’t see it, so we can pretend it’s not really there, but it’s scary if we can actually see your weapon.

I personally find it interesting, if not a bit comical, how the issue has somewhat turned upside down.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 4:08 PM

deepdiver on September 18, 2013 at 3:17 PM

I think he was on your side, deep. He was saying that when you “shoot” you have to understand the environment – which was pretty much your point. I think the Newtown “event” made the whole thing kind of come to a head in some people’s minds.

GWB on September 18, 2013 at 4:09 PM

Stop involving businesses in your politics, regardless off your position.

Would anyone want groups burning American flags in their parking lots holding cups of coffee, even though its legal?

NO.

So stop involving starbucks in the open carry debate.

I’m not against open-carry either. Wrong venue. Find a business that promotes it, like, a GUN STORE. Open carry in their parking lot.

TX-96 on September 18, 2013 at 4:09 PM

Not a problem for me, Starbucks. I’m more than happy to go to Dunkin Donuts for my coffee instead of your place. Besides, DD is a lot cheaper and the coffee is just as good.

Cherokee on September 18, 2013 at 4:10 PM

Why does it matter if the video shows that it was a Starbucks employee that caused the arrest/charges? If someone was unable to open carry at Starbucks, then they weren’t “perfectly free” to open carry at Starbucks. Do you agree?

One would be company policy, the other isn’t.

My comparison was perfectly applicable. You just don’t like the fact that you’re saying the same things that people said about civil rights activists. People like you called them trouble-makers. That’s what you’re saying about the open carry activists. Activists that are still being arrested/charged with crimes for exercising their rights.

No, it wasn’t. There is no civil rights fight at Starbucks, they’ve said, and still say, they’ll respect whatever the local laws are.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 4:13 PM

They were charged with disorderly conduct – not open carrying.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 3:59 PM

But if open carry is perfectly legal, then that could not be a vaild charge to make, could it?
Was the person actually being disorderly, or was disorderly conduct merely the excuse/charge they used to arrest someone for open carry because someone else didn’t like it?

Kind of how when you’re doing nothing wrong but the police want to illegally stop and search you, or try to enter and search your house with no warrant, and you don’t agree to it and point out that it’s illegal, the charge becomes resisting arrest – because that’s all they have to punish your lack of submission.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 4:17 PM

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Again, people like you said that Rosa Parks and other civil rights activists were obnoxious for their efforts.

blink on September 18, 2013 at 4:11 PM

Are you aware that Rosa Parks actually wasn’t allowed to sit where she did?
The yahoos in TX are allowed to open carry – and nobody cares or notices until they start trying to stir things up.
It’s just silly to try and equate this with Parks.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 4:19 PM

blink on September 18, 2013 at 4:10 PM

Let me try this one more time, there is no civil rights fight at Starbucks, they’ve said repeatedly they’ll respect whatever the local laws are, they’re not denying gun owners anything, or in words hopefully you’ll understand, they’re not forcing gun owners to the back of the bus, gun owners are free to sit at the front of the bus, Starbucks is just asking them not to act like idiots or throw spitballs at the driver while they’re on the bus, is that clear enough?

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 4:21 PM

It doesn’t matter if it’s company policy or not. You claimed that people were “perfectly free” to open carry at Starbucks.

And they are perfectly free to carry at Starbucks, if people or police are denying them that right then your fight is with them, not Starbucks and should be taken up with them. Starbucks has made it clear they’ll respect the rights of gun owners and just don’t want to be caught in the middle, so why antagonize a company that’s on your side? It’s ridiculous.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 4:25 PM

I’ll be leaving my money at home too Mr. Starbucks CEO!

DebinRTP on September 18, 2013 at 4:28 PM

And people like clearbluesky would probably claim that those people are jerks and flaunted their rights.

blink on September 18, 2013 at 4:25 PM

No, i wouldn’t. You know why i wouldn’t? Because unlike you i can tell the difference between a company that’s respecting my rights and someone who isn’t respecting my rights.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 4:30 PM

Only fools and pretentious fops pay $5 for a cup of coffee.

Wallythedog on September 18, 2013 at 4:31 PM

blink on September 18, 2013 at 4:29 PM

You shall overcome.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Only fools and pretentious fops pay $5 for a cup of coffee.

Wallythedog on September 18, 2013 at 4:31 PM

It’s not quite $5. A “large” is $1.75

Granted, for a buck you can get a good cup of Joe at McDonald’s, but $1.75 for a 20 oz cup of good coffee ain’t a bad deal.

mankai on September 18, 2013 at 4:38 PM

blink on September 18, 2013 at 4:35 PM

Allright, good luck with the whole in your face thing, i’m sure it’ll work out just great for you Rosa.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 4:38 PM

You shall overcome.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Getting the right to carry a gun was also central to civil rights for African-Americans, including MLK.

Obnoxious jerks! /

mankai on September 18, 2013 at 4:40 PM

It’s safe to assume that I’ve forced you to realize the stupidity of your earlier comments.

blink on September 18, 2013 at 4:38 PM

Totally safe for you to assume that.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 4:40 PM

C’mon, black folk, you don’t need guns. Just let the Birmingham Police Force protect you.

/Democrats then and now

mankai on September 18, 2013 at 4:42 PM

I genuinely prefer instant, generic coffee anyway, so Fluke them.

Dr. ZhivBlago on September 18, 2013 at 4:43 PM

It’s not quite $5. A “large” is $1.75

Granted, for a buck you can get a good cup of Joe at McDonald’s, but $1.75 for a 20 oz cup of good coffee ain’t a bad deal.

mankai on September 18, 2013 at 4:38 PM

Yea, but then they expect you to handle the cream and sugar.
I prefer the full service of DDs.

verbaluce on September 18, 2013 at 4:44 PM

“it’s disorderly conduct to carry firearms in a manner calculated to cause alarm”
blink on September 18, 2013 at 4:25 PM

That’s pretty much where I was heading with my questions.
I’d like to see a legally defensible definition of “in a manner calculated to cause alarm”. That’s a horribly written law if you ask me, because it leaves the interpretation wide open for abuse – which unfortunately is far too common with our laws now.
The point being, even though open carry is legal, many people apparently don’t want it to be legal, so they’re stretching for excuses to punish people for open carry – i.e. punishment for a perfectly legal activity.

I see the same problem with laws regarding “stand your ground”, “make my day”, or “castle doctrine”. In some places, it may be technically legal for you to shoot and kill an intruder/attacker, but if you do, you’re likely to face criminal or civil charges for something like manslaughter, wrongful death, or such – which effectively negates the legality of your shooting someone in self defense.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 4:45 PM

Only fools and pretentious fops pay $5 for a cup of coffee.

Wallythedog on September 18, 2013 at 4:31 PM

Well, I pay $4 for a large latte with 3 shots of espresso and flavored syrup – mainly because of what I’ve posted earlier about how my body now objects to straight brewed coffee.
I also tip the girls at our in-house coffee shop $1, making it $5 total, because they have to go through all the extreme base security measures the rest of us endure jsut to get to work, and they do it for a much smaller wage.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 4:53 PM

Ironically, this is exactly the type of thing that people said to/about Rosa Parks.

If you think it’s ironic you clearly missed the point.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 4:55 PM

This was about POLICE trying to illegal stop or search you.

Yes, it was, maybe you should try to learn the difference between a LEO violating your rights and a company respecting them.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 4:56 PM

Why is Allahpundit here, anymore, anyway? Is it more a reflection of HotAir changing or Allahpundit changing HotAir? He’s too close to the leftist mindset & attitude for me & it’s like he’s trying to get others to flip their identity like he’s flipped his own, himself. He’s gotta go. Please go away, Allahpundit. Otherwise, I (& lots of others, I imagine) are going to see HotAir as less & less of a good go-to resource for good info, news, & commentary.

ABLOGMAN on September 18, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Texas obviously needs to catch up.
In the meantime, the civil rights fight continues.

blink on September 18, 2013 at 4:58 PM

I also read about the Army soldier arrested for merely walking down a back road with his son (they were in fact out hunting), with an AR-15 hanging on his shoulder. I believe the charge was disorderly conduct. I got the impression that was a regular occurrance around that particular base.

Interesting situation for a state that publicly claims to be so incredibly “gun friendly”.

dentarthurdent on September 18, 2013 at 5:04 PM

No, I didn’t miss the point at all.

blink on September 18, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Then fight on Rosa, your strategy worked great at Starbucks, i’m sure you’ll have similar results elsewhere.

clearbluesky on September 18, 2013 at 5:04 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4