Boehner: Okay, okay, we’ll vote on a continuing resolution that defunds ObamaCare

posted at 11:21 am on September 18, 2013 by Allahpundit

Cantor’s lame attempt to appease the “defund” crowd having failed, the House leadership’s apparently decided to punt the whole thing to Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz in the Senate:

“On the CR, we know what the position of this conference is,” Boehner said, speaking before his colleagues. “Every member in this room is for defunding Obamacare while letting the rest of the government continue to operate. We’re going to put Obamacare defunding directly into the CR. And then we’re going to send it over to the Senate, so our conservative allies over there can continue the fight. That’s where the fight is.”

“On every major issue we’ve faced for the past two and a half years, the math has been the same: House Republicans either find a way together to get to 218, or the Democrats who run the rest of Washington essentially get everything they want,” he added, pressing for House GOP unity.

Cantor wanted to send two separate bills to the Senate, one a straightforward CR that would fund O-Care and the other a defunding measure. Obviously Reid would have passed the former and trashed the latter, leaving “defund” supporters with a symbolic House vote (like the 40+ that have preceded it) and nothing else. Fine, says Boehner, you win — we’ll send only one bill that defunds ObamaCare to the Senate. Mitch McConnell, who’s terrified of losing conservative support in the Kentucky primary, will have no choice but to push for it, but even a weakened Obama isn’t going to lose many Senate Democrats when he’s defending the party’s signature legislation.

Which is to say, Reid and the Democrats will kill the new defunding bill, and then … what? Robert Costa expects that, once the “defund” measure fails, Boehner and Cantor will ask House conservatives to pass a clean CR that funds O-Care and wait for the debt-ceiling fight to try again to defund (or delay) the law. Will the caucus go along, though? WaPo wonders:

One, these conservatives have already demonstrated a willingness to buck leadership. Two, many of them view this as the last best chance to derail Obamacare, given imminent implementation dates. Three, their biggest political concerns are primary challenges and the ire of conservative groups who also want to shred Obamacare at all costs. A “we-tried-once-so-now-let’s-back-away” posture won’t ease any of their political pressures.

What’s more, in order for a budget strategy to really be tested, it must be drawn out to the last moment. These negotiations have increasingly become blinking contests, and Defund Obamacare advocates aren’t going to be happy until Senate Democrats are faced with a choice between a government shutdown and defunding Obamacare. Anything else will be seen as a token effort.

Would Boehner and the GOP leadership tolerate even a brief shutdown, if only to prove to the base that they weren’t afraid to do it to try to get Senate Dems to compromise, or is this going to be another situation where the Hastert Rule goes out the window at the last minute and Boehner passes something with Democratic votes plus a few dozen Republican moderates? Paul Ryan’s reportedly already being lined up to convince his colleagues that a shutdown is a bad idea. “The fight is on the debt limit,” he told the caucus this morning, per Costa. And indeed, according to WaPo reporter Paul Kane, Cantor apparently expects that ObamaCare will still be a live issue by the time the battle over the debt ceiling begins:

Giving up on entitlement reform, eh? Wonderful. Anywhere, there you go — a sneak preview of the next few weeks. The House will pass an essentially symbolic defund measure. Ted Cruz and Rand Paul will do their best to argue for passing it in the Senate and will fail, hopefully at least with Senate Republicans lined up behind them in opposition to Reid’s funding measure but maybe not. (McCain warned Republicans not to shut down the government this morning on CNN, but whether that means he’d vote for a CR that funded O-Care in the name of breaking a tea-party filibuster or would vote against it while waiting for the House to pass a clean CR themselves is unclear.) Then Boehner, Ryan, et al. will call for House Republicans to pass a CR that funds O-Care for the time being and to shift the defunding argument to the debt ceiling, where they’ll … surely stand on principle. Surely they won’t cave again for fear of the bad press the GOP would get for pursuing ObamaCare brinksmanship with America’s creditworthiness on the line. Right?

Read Philip Klein on tea partiers confusing tactical disagreements among Republicans with ideological ones.


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jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 1:06 PM

LOL.

Don’t drop out of 3rd grade … no matter how many times you have to repeat it.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 18, 2013 at 1:24 PM

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 1:06 PM

Allow me to repeat. Now really wrap your mind around this.

Single Payer Is The Goal.

Bmore on September 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

I hate Cantor as much as obama. What a couple of turkeys they are.

Schadenfreude on September 18, 2013 at 1:31 PM

“Surely they won’t cave again for fear of the bad press…”

What ever gave you that idea…?

… And stop calling me Shirley.

Seven Percent Solution on September 18, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Bmore on September 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

That maybe the goal..But can’t see that happening..Too many special interest groups will fight that as of now..:)

PS..Good evening to you!!..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Read Philip Klein on tea partiers confusing tactical disagreements among Republicans with ideological ones.

It is only a tactical disagreement if we are both pursuing the same objective. Where is the proof that the GOP establishment is pursuing a single conservative objective?

Sure, we get symbolic carp all the time. When was the last real fight where the GOP stood firm for a conservative principle?

The problem with some people who think this is just a silly tactical disagreement, is that you believe that having some “R” win an election is what is important and don’t really seem to care what the “R”‘s do once elected.

Republicans are part of the problem – so telling me that we should sit back and let the republicans just do what they always do with hope that sometime later they will do what we want them to do is the same as telling me that if we pass amnesty for illegals now, the gov’t will enforce immigration laws and the border sometime in the future.

So, you are entirely wrong about this being a tactical dispute. I don’t like or trust the republican party anymore. I used to. I used to make the same type of arguments for patience, and being “moderate”, etc.

but, the true nature of the republican establishment has been on display for about 15 years, and it is not even remotely conservative. It isn’t even conservative friendly for the most part. Sure, republicans are slightly less contemptous of conservatives and conservatism than democrats. But that is hardly worth much.

Remember, we are conservatives, not republicans. I don’t care if the Republican party manages some kind of minor victory if it does not further conservative goals. And, before you claim it, getting more republicans elected does not ever seem to further conservative goals. So don’t try and sell me that swill.

there is an old saying that I believe in – “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”. it does not apply here. where is the “good” in the GOP?

Monkeytoe on September 18, 2013 at 1:44 PM

What do people think is going to suddenly happen? I’m frankly mystified.

Doomberg on September 18, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Again I refer to the change of TV from analog to digital..Something that simple was a train wreck I can’t imagine Obiecare being a smooth transition for most Americans..Time will tell..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 1:44 PM

obama’care’ will destroy the unions.

Schadenfreude on September 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM

They’ve already told everyone that they think that it is a stupid idea and that they’ll fold at the least bit of resistance. This vote is nothing more than theatre.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM

or is this going to be another situation where the Hastert Rule goes out the window at the last minute and Boehner passes something with Democratic votes plus a few dozen Republican moderates?

Count on it. And count on any Republican who votes for it being identified as a Republican who voted for Obamacare. Because that’s what they’re doing.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 1:56 PM

And count on any Republican who votes for it being identified as a Republican who voted for Obamacare. Because that’s what they’re doing.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 1:56 PM

That is a little unfair don’t you think??..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 2:08 PM

I hate Cantor as much as obama. What a couple of turkeys they are.

Schadenfreude on September 18, 2013 at 1:31 PM

Good cop / bad cop.

Cantor and Obama have zero policy differences.

tetriskid on September 18, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Have fun

Schadenfreude on September 18, 2013 at 2:15 PM

That is a little unfair don’t you think??..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 2:08 PM

Nope. If they pay for it, they own it. Just like if I go to the store and give the clerk $0.50 for a candy bar, I own it.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:17 PM

I hate Cantor as much as obama. What a couple of turkeys they are.

Schadenfreude on September 18, 2013 at 1:31 PM

Good cop / bad cop.

Cantor and Obama have zero policy differences.

tetriskid on September 18, 2013 at 2:11 PM

I remember a year or two, people were talking about how Cantor was the conservative force in the House leadership. As bad as Boehner is and was, I’ve always thought he was a million times better than Cantor.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:18 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M#t=417

libfreeordie on September 18, 2013 at 2:20 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M#t=417

libfreeordie on September 18, 2013 at 2:20 PM

Really? It’s complex. Yeah, that’s novel. Nobody knew that.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:23 PM

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:17 PM

Sorry to see you feel that way..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Pricing is always complex. And what’s the best solution for complex pricing? The free market – which is better at incorporating a multitude of complex variables into price because it allows for countless inputs.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:25 PM

I don’t favor a shutdown over Obamacare, because I believe we can extract more concessions in the debt ceiling fight.

That said, I am happy to see the House send this slop over to the Senate, because the Senate GOP deserves it after what they did to the House on the immigration bill, which is a political nightmare for their colleagues.

The Senate GOP should NEVER have sent ANY bill to the House… one of the dirtiest, most selfish political moves I’ve seen in years.

matthew8787 on September 18, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Are we not at the same percentage opposing Ocraponmecare as we were with opposing military strike on Syria? Americans don’t want it, represent US, defund it!

hillsoftx on September 18, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Doomberg:

The problem is that given the support from the MSM Obama will win the showdown. It will be little old ladies and babies starving to death 24/7. We don’t have the votes for repeal right now. I am not arguing that we should make people suffer — that is the Libertarian position — the fact is that the law cannot be stopped with current Congress unless the White House has a change of heart. Even if the votes were there in the Senate Obama will veto the bill. Why should the Republican Party throw away an electoral advantage in futile effort to repeal the law absent the votes?

As an aside, those you who say the Republican Party has be destroyed to get a “true conservative party” don’t seem to understand that this isn’t 1840. If the Republican Party is destroyed then what you get is a one party socialist dictatorship. I also note that Libertarian are not conservatives they are market oriented radical syndicalists and social revolutionaries whose attacks on the Republican Party will help the Democrats create a one party socialist state.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:32 PM

I don’t favor a shutdown over Obamacare, because I believe we can extract more concessions in the debt ceiling fight.

matthew8787 on September 18, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Good luck with that. I don’t think the GOP has the will to, or will be able to, extract anything in either case. And stop being a crybaby.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM

Primoridal wins the prize for the biggest moron on the thread. Try making an intelligent argument like Doomberg.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:34 PM

The problem is that given the support from the MSM Obama will win the showdown.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:32 PM

No. Given that the “defund” plan has already been described by the GOP as a “shutdown” plan, the GOP has already placed the blame on themselves if a shutdown occurs. (Regardless of the fact that logically speaking, it will be the Democrats fault for shutting down the government over Obamacare if it were to actually happen.) That’s why they will bear the blame for a shutdown. Because they are idiots, with absolutely zero strategic capabilities.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:37 PM

Bmnore: No $hit $herlock. However after the Obamacare disastor the votes won’t be there unless the Libertarians and the morons like primordial succede in destroying the Republican Party and give the Democrats total control of government. The latest polls show that a majority of the population wants to go back to the status quo ante. This excursion into government medicine has created a majority against single payer. If you can’t manage mini socialized medicine how can you do the the whole thing. People get that.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Sorry to see you feel that way..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM

More of the same from the GOP. It’s what we should expect (and what I do expect). The least they could do is get something in exchange for completely selling the country out. But they won’t.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:40 PM

However after the Obamacare disastor the votes won’t be there unless the Libertarians and the morons like primordial succede in destroying the Republican Party and give the Democrats total control of government.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Isn’t that what we have now?

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Things keep passing the House with majority Democrat and minority Republican support. The CR will likely be the same. Looks like Democrat control to me.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:42 PM

bessor: You exhibit another contradictory trait of the Kamikaze. On the one hand you rail against the MSM yet you fully expect the MSM to report fairly on a govenrment shutdown. Since you are so much smarter than everybody on the Hill what is your stratagy for getting the word out? And please don’t say sites like Hotair. Only the tiny fraction of voters come here or the leftwing equivalent.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:43 PM

You exhibit another contradictory trait of the Kamikaze. On the one hand you rail against the MSM yet you fully expect the MSM to report fairly on a govenrment shutdown.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:43 PM

No I don’t. What I do expect is the GOP to put the best face on whatever options they have, rather than repeat the MSM an Democrat talking points about it. Now, they’ve already gone on the record as saying the same things about the “defund” strategy as the Democrats and MSM have said. So, it is impossible for them to move forward with that option, no matter what. They’ve painted themselves into a corner for no reason whatsoever other than, from what I can tell, to piss off conservatives.

(And, I’m not sure that I support the “defund” strategy – I think it’s a bad strategy, but I don’t see anyone offering anything better. And I don’t expect the GOP to do anything at all, so I guess I have to unwillingly support it. – Also, logically speaking, voting for a CR funding Obamacare is actually voting in favor of Obamacare, so I’m interested to know what Republicans will vote for it, especially if they voted against it in the first instance.)

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:48 PM

Passing a Continuing Resolution and hoping the Senate will ‘save the day’ is merely voting ‘present’. The Democrat controlled Senate will NOT defund Obamacare.

The House is (once again) refusing to do their jobs and represent the American people. Many of the Republican members of the House got in office with the promise to defund and repeal Obamacare… now they want the Senate Democrats to save them.

Do the jobs your were elected to do!!!

xmanvietnam on September 18, 2013 at 2:50 PM

It needs to be clearly stated: this effort is NOT about “defunding ObamaCare” in any way. In order to do that, it would have to pass the Senate, and that’s not happening with 53 Democrats. Even if it did pass by some miracle, Obama is certain to veto it, it’s his only “accomplishment” in five years in office. That would take 67 votes in the Senate AND 290 in the House to override.

So don’t fool yourselves that this has anything to do with ObamaCare. It’s about shutting down the government and having a war of nerves with Obama. That’s a fight we cannot win because Obama doesn’t care how many people are hurt or if the country is damaged. All he cares about is himself and his parties and vacations and tee times. If the country must be destroyed for him to beat the GOP, that’s a price he is happy to pay. He hates America anyway.

~~~

PLUS, with his Administration floundering in every respect, Obama desperately needs a shutdown to turn the focus back on the GOP, to rally his leftist troops and media which are beginning to question his leadership.

Don’t be suckers and play into his hand.

Adjoran on September 18, 2013 at 2:56 PM

Now bessor, you sound like you are reasonable guy. How can the Republicans defund the program without shuting down the government and giving Obama a big win because their control of the MSM? It is a dilemma without a solution right?

And to Xman I ask same question. How is a government shutdown that gives Obama a big win in the interests of the Republican opposition. This is the classic Kamikaze move.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:57 PM

Look at one of the headlines: “McCain to GOP: Don’t shut down the government”

Could have just as easily have been, and more logically should have been: McCain to Obama and Democrats: Don’t shut down the government. But, no. It’s the GOP’s fault. This is how the GOP has addressed this strategy. From the Democrats’ and MSM’s side.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:58 PM

Paul Ryan’s reportedly already being lined up to convince his colleagues that a shutdown is a bad idea.

I wish the proponents of defunding Obamacare would adopt this position as well, and push it hard.

Republicans need to just highlight, over and over again, the fact that they ARE passing a resolution that funds everything else, and that they expect Obama to pass it. Then Obamacare can be dealt with separately.

The republican line should not be “It’s worth a government shutdown to kill Obamacare”, it should be (and should have been from the start) “It’s not worth a government shutdown to save Obamacare.” “Mr. President, we can certainly talk about some kind of compromise to save your favorite parts of your legislation, but please, please don’t be so reckless as to tie this debate to funding essential programs, like American flags for 9/11 orphans. Please, Mr. President, think of the children! You don’t hate children, do you?”

They could even play good cop, bad cop – Boehner could publicly give a speech, saying “I’m personally willing to compromise on Obamacare, but most of my caucus is too dead-set against it, so what I’m going to do is pass a continuing resolution with everything else in it, and then I give my word that I will plead very hard with my reactionary colleagues to come to their senses. Mr president, lets work together to make sure that these crazy tea-party-extremists don’t hold our political debate hostage.”

The point is not to convince the media to adopt this perspective, it’s to just repeat it enough that it becomes known that the republicans are bringing to the table a specific plan to avoid a shutdown, and one that does not technically kill Obamacare. Emphasize again and again that its Obama’s choice. Adopt the position that we’re hoping that he does the right thing and passes the bill, but we’re leaving the ball in his court.

RINO in Name Only on September 18, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Now bessor, you sound like you are reasonable guy. How can the Republicans defund the program without shuting down the government and giving Obama a big win because their control of the MSM? It is a dilemma without a solution right?

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:57 PM

I think it’s an uphill battle to win the messaging war, but I don’t think that it is impossible, because, logically, it is the Democrats who are shutting down the government over Obamacare. The Republicans would have funded the government, but the Democrats refused to accept. It’s a battle that has a good argument and could have been won. But they put the GOP put its worst foot forward, making an uphill battle an impossible-to-win battle. They pre-emptively surrendered that negotiating position. Which means that they are going to get less in the final solution (and by less, I mean whatever the Democrats want). I’ve taken negotiating classes and can tell you that their negotiating capabilities are garbage.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Are people too ignorant to even know what they are supporting?

Remember that “shutdowns” don’t affect entitlements. Social Security checks will continue to go out, Medicare payments will be made, and since most of the expenses of ObamaCare are structured as an entitlement, it will go on. “Defunding” won’t stop the subsidies or exchanges, it can only cut funding for efforts like bureaucrats to explain the exchanges, advertising, and other miscellaneous costs.

So it is NOT going to stop ObamaCare at all, just nip at the heels.

But some loudmouths throw out the red meat, and the dummies fight over it every time.

Adjoran on September 18, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Full enforcement of Obamacare for every American now. No delays. No waivers. THEN vote to repeal it in Oct 2014.

EddieC on September 18, 2013 at 3:04 PM

The republican line should not be “It’s worth a government shutdown to kill Obamacare”, it should be (and should have been from the start) “It’s not worth a government shutdown to save Obamacare.” “Mr. President, we can certainly talk about some kind of compromise to save your favorite parts of your legislation, but please, please don’t be so reckless as to tie this debate to funding essential programs, like American flags for 9/11 orphans. Please, Mr. President, think of the children! You don’t hate children, do you?”

RINO in Name Only on September 18, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Precisely. But, I think it’s already too late. The GOP has already repeated over and over again that the “defund” strategy is a “shutdown” strategy. I think they’ve carried water for the Democrat and MSM talking points too many times at this stage in the game.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 3:04 PM

besser:

You hightlight the problem with McCain. McCain is not the Republican Pary but his the MSM’s pet Repbulican so they report that the GOP, i.e., McCain is telling the tea baggers to shut up and don’t shut down the government. The general public who gets their information from the MSM will take that at face value. So are you proposing that the Republicans should kick out McCain? I can see the message to the MSM audience after that move. The Republicans are like Stalinists forcing its member to tow the party line or be purged. That would be a great message now wouldn’t it?

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 3:04 PM

You hightlight the problem with McCain. McCain is not the Republican Pary but his the MSM’s pet Repbulican so they report that the GOP, i.e., McCain is telling the tea baggers to shut up and don’t shut down the government. The general public who gets their information from the MSM will take that at face value. So are you proposing that the Republicans should kick out McCain? I can see the message to the MSM audience after that move. The Republicans are like Stalinists forcing its member to tow the party line or be purged. That would be a great message now wouldn’t it?

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Unfortunately, it’s not just McCain. It was Boehner and Cantor, and pretty much every “mainstream” “conservative” journalist.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 3:07 PM

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 2:32 PM

+ 100..Hear!..Hear!..You make some very good points..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Where is the concise, written, easily explained Republican plan that will replace Obamacare while lowering costs, decreasing regulations and paperwork and increasing choice for consumers of healthcare? Does it have a name, like ‘America’s Choice’ or something?

Where was that plan for the last 4 years?

What’s going on now will lead nowhere except more Obamacare and higher federal spending.

Meremortal on September 18, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Precisely. But, I think it’s already too late. The GOP has already repeated over and over again that the “defund” strategy is a “shutdown” strategy. I think they’ve carried water for the Democrat and MSM talking points too many times at this stage in the game.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Yeah, I’m afraid you’re probably right. The frustrating thing is that while I haven’t kept track of exactly who said what, I’m pretty sure I’ve heard a lot of the really conservative “defund” proponents call it a “shutdown” strategy as well – it’s not just the usual RINO suspects.

And really, even “defund” is ceding too much. It should always have been “defer”, as in, “lets defer the debate until we can fund the important things”.

RINO in Name Only on September 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

The Spelunker of the House has had 2 1/2 years to defund obamacare. Instead he’s furthered the marxist goal of controlling 1/6th of the US economy by passing CR after CR after CR fully funding obamacare. He’s been called out for his latest parlor trick and now states that he will allow a vote on a CR that will not include funds for obamacare. Hey, it’s a start…

Meanwhile, Walgreen’s has joined the growing list of companies dropping or reducing healthcare coverage for it’s employees. The longshoremen withdrew their membership in the AFL-CIO due to the latter’s continued support for obamacare. Now, even the AFL-CIO issued a statement that obamacare needs to be re-written.

The wheels are falling of and the collaborators and enablers want to maintain the status quo in the face of overwhelming dissent and objection within their party and the Nation…

Public servants my arse…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 3:16 PM

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Check out the links I have posted in this thread..I think you will find them interesting..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Just checking back in after washing the car and yard work:-)

Thanks, will check those links out.

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Looks like the elite Rs want to be able to say I told ya so after Reid sticks this bill in the bottom drawer.

Kissmygrits on September 18, 2013 at 3:22 PM

And really, even “defund” is ceding too much. It should always have been “defer”, as in, “lets defer the debate until we can fund the important things”.

RINO in Name Only on September 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

Agreed. That’s why I always put “defund” in quotes. It’s more of a “don’t fund” strategy, or, “defer” is good too.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Gohwags:

Tell me with only one House of Congress does the GOP kill the bill? I keep hearing this yet I don’t see you or any other critic tell me how you can do this when the Democrats control the Senate and the White House. We have an “and” system of governent not an “or” one. On gun control it worked to the Republicans’ advantage now didnt’ it. I recall the Kamikazes whining that the GOP was gooing to fold on gun control. The Republicans can block but cannot move forward. That is how the system works. When blocking is effective the Republican’s are effective but when they are required to move forward they are powerless. Why don’t guys read civics book and learn how Congress works from a constitutional perspective. Such information used to be dispensed in high school American history class. I guess they don’t teach that anymore.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 3:28 PM

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Spoken like an earnest status quo R…And one, I might add, that should re-read the sections of the Civics book that discuss the funding of the federal government and which body authorizes spending…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Gohwags:

You have put your ignroance on display for all to see. A spending bill must be pass both houses of Congress. A tax bill must orginate in the House but still must pass both houses of Congress. You have just become a poster child for ignorance of the legislative process under the Constitution. You and your clones are as clueless as your mirror images on the Democratic Underground.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 3:55 PM

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 3:55 PM

Uhh, you were saying

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 4:00 PM

Now bessor, you sound like you are reasonable guy. How can the Republicans defund the program without shuting down the government and giving Obama a big win because their control of the MSM? It is a dilemma without a solution right?

jerryofva

A good first step would be to stop buying into the Dem talking points issued by the MSM that a government shut down will automatically give Obama a big win. Where the hell is that rule written? It’s the same song and dance with people like you. We must surrender, because if we fight, we might lose.

xblade on September 18, 2013 at 4:06 PM

gohwags: Are you telling me I am incorrect? You really are clueless.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 4:06 PM

There is not a poll from any political point of view that shows the Republicans winning shutdown battle. The Low Information Voter is the marginal voter. They create the majority one way or another. The get their news from Colbert report and the MSM. Tell me how these voters are going be moved. No pipedream schemes please. Just stay within reality.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 4:10 PM

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 4:06 PM

The Roberts Court ruled that obamacare was a tax on the US people. Per the Constitution, the revenue/funding mechanism for such must originate in the House…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 4:11 PM

Oh, I understand. Someone, when testing the low information voter winds, didn’t switch thumbs and end up suckling the thumb they had just been sitting on…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 4:15 PM

Fight with and for honor.

Back down without a fight with no honor.

Use lots of long words and long pointed fingers to avoid the truth of the cowards path the Republican leadership now clings to.

Lots of blog post herein used to make this path seem the one covered with roses, truth and honor.

Not going to work, the jig is up.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on September 18, 2013 at 4:27 PM

Question for you..Do you really think the Dems will give up their “dream” legislation of universal health care..Do you really think that??..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 12:22 PM

If it’s between giving up legislation and giving up their power then yes, yes I do think some Dems will cling bitterly to power however they can, even if it means voting against their nightmare legislation.

Absolutely.

We have powermongers in DC, who do NOT want to go home and go back to the real world and lose their privileged world of perks and titles and VIP status.

Mark Begich of Alaska, for one

hrh40 on September 18, 2013 at 4:32 PM

gowags:

You should stop digging your hole dummy. They ruled the penalty for not buying insurance a tax, not the bill. You are a real moron.

jerryofva on September 18, 2013 at 5:15 PM

For establishment Republicans, the hill to die on is the next hill. Always.

PersonFromPorlock on September 18, 2013 at 5:30 PM

There is not a poll from any political point of view that shows the Republicans winning shutdown battle.

jerryofva

And every poll claimed that republicans would be blamed if they didn’t go for more gun control, yet what happened? I think pretty much every poll said republicans would be blamed for sequestration too, yet what happened? And of course, we have to go along with amnesty, or republicans will be blamed. In fact, if republicans don’t support every liberal policy there is, they will be blamed.

BTW, just yesterday:

Rasmussen: Americans would rather see government shutdown than Obamacare funded

A majority of Americans prefer that the government go through a partial shutdown to cut funding for Obamacare, according to a new study by Rasmussen Reports.

The study, which was released Tuesday, found that 51 percent of likely voters nationwide would rather see the government partially shut down when the current continuing resolution expires on September 30 than keep the president’s healthcare law funded at its current levels. Four in ten likely voters believe that we should avoid a government showdown by funding Obamacare at its current levels.

Included in the 51 percent of likely voters that would support the partial government shutdown are 57 percent of Independents and 78 percent of Republicans, as well as 61 percent of likely voters who have family in the military.

In addition, 53 percent of likely voters support a partial shutdown of the federal government so both parties can agree on what spending cuts to make. That includes 52 percent of Millennials, 62 percent of Independents and 59 percent of those who have family in the military.

Oops.

xblade on September 18, 2013 at 5:54 PM

hrh40 on September 18, 2013 at 4:32 PM

The numbers are not there among the Dems..They will not fold on this because with the MSM they will win a messaging war..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 5:56 PM

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 5:56 PM

I listened to that Avik Roy Podcast, 75% of it and posted to you, but HA ate my post!! Either that or I got a phone call and hit preview but forgot to hit submit, LOL

Anyhoo.. it’s dinner time, but I will get to it afterwards!

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 6:04 PM

Anyhoo.. it’s dinner time, but I will get to it afterwards!

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 6:04 PM

Good deal..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 6:24 PM

hrh40 on September 18, 2013 at 4:32 PM

The numbers are not there among the Dems..They will not fold on this because with the MSM they will win a messaging war in a Gov shutdown ..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 5:56 PM

Edited for clarification..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 6:26 PM

I would love to know why Boehner refused to go to reconciliation on the Senate budget. My point is, this is the process, which the Senate has avoided for 4 years. He could go to reconciliation and put in all of this stuff he’s been avoiding, and then negotiate. I know Reid is going to try and get him to give it all up but, had he done this a couple of months ago, he could have had some hard negotiation, now what’s he got? He’s got nothing because Reid and obama have their ducks on a row, the government will shut down and it’s Boehner’s fault, versus, ” we tried to negotiate through the budget but Reid and company just refused to give an inch.”

bflat879 on September 18, 2013 at 6:36 PM

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 6:26 PM

Well, something is wrong. Same thing happened as before. The preview brought up my comment, hit submit and then nothing posted.

I listed one link from cns, but can’t understand that site would be a problem.

Will try again without any link.

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:08 PM

libfreeorgan on September 18, 2013 at 2:20 PM

…is that it?

KOOLAID2 on September 18, 2013 at 7:10 PM

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:08 PM

…love you!

KOOLAID2 on September 18, 2013 at 7:11 PM

Will try again without any link.

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:08 PM

I don’t think you can post cns links..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 7:12 PM

Nope. If they pay for it, they own it. Just like if I go to the store and give the clerk $0.50 for a candy bar, I own it.

besser tot als rot on September 18, 2013 at 2:17 PM

I agree.

dogsoldier on September 18, 2013 at 7:16 PM

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 7:12 PM

Replace the dot with the word DOT. I sometimes have to do that.

dogsoldier on September 18, 2013 at 7:16 PM

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:08 PM

@Dire:-)

Avik favors delay rather than defunding due to (1) No enforcement of eligibility for subsidies is in place (2) Gov is 2 mo behind in Privacy Protection, i.e. Idenity Theft, etc. He agrees the goal is single payer, but Obamacare wasn’t designed for that purpose. Doesn’t think Obamacare is as extensive as Medicare and Medicaid.
He also admits that once subsidies are given, then repeal would be very hard.

I don’t know what the consequences are for delaying & what exactly would be delayed?

Several large Insurers have pulled out of various State Exchanges and won’t be writing coverage. What happens then? Who do they apply to?OBAMACARE COMPANIES PULLING OUT OF EXCHANGES:

Aetna Inc., has announced it will not sell insurance on New York’s Obamacare health insurance exchange

The other states Aetna has opted out of for Obamacare insurance exchange participation are Maryland, Ohio, Georgia, and Connecticut.

Aetna never intended to participate in California, and Anthem Blue Cross and United Health Group made a similar decision to steer clear of California’s Obamacare exchanges as well.

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:21 PM

I don’t think you can post cns links..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 7:12 PM

Thanks, just found that out. I knew c n n was blocked, but didn’t know about c n s Good grief!! It’s a website for pity sake!! It’s also pornless:-)

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:23 PM

There is not a poll from any political point of view that shows the Republicans winning shutdown battle.

jerryofva

Hey, if it’s shut down, WE win!! It’s worth it to rid ourselves of this Unconstitutional piece of ****

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:26 PM

who has more credibility …

Paul Ryan

or

Ted Cruz

?

DEFUND the Obamacare BULLSCHMIDT

exodus2011 on September 18, 2013 at 7:32 PM

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:21 PM

I think Avik’s analysis is spot on and he makes some good suggestions on fighting Obiecare in the future and defeating Obiecare..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM

I saw 2 petinent tweets yesterday:

Rasmussen reports that 51% of Americans polled say ‘shut down govt until Obamacare DEFUNDED’

now, this means his GOPe client has asked that this Q be tested, and we have HALF the country up front saying – SHUT IT DOWN! (WOOHOOOOOOOOO!)

so, Boehner will KNOW this is not an ‘unpopular’ move, if Dingy Harry/Barry won’t advance HJ 62

the other tweet I saw out of TWS was Warren Buffett saying, TOSS this Obamacare out and START OVER

So now we have Boehner moving in the right direction … has he really DUMPED his Healthcare lobbyist CRONIES and submitting to THE WILL OF WE THE PEOPLE?

watch him like a hawk … do not trust this weeper

Boehner, if Dingy and DEMs reject HJ 62 the DEFUND Bill, it is THEM who will shut govt down

let Cruz and Lee take over the messaging and you just practise NOT BLINKING in front of a mirror, ….. WIMP

#BeClingers ————–> #AmericaRISING

exodus2011 on September 18, 2013 at 7:37 PM

In a speech at the Business Roundtable headquarters in Washington, D.C., Obama dismissed concerns about raising the debt ceiling by noting that it’d been done so many times in the past:

“Now, this debt ceiling — I just want to remind people in case you haven’t been keeping up — raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; it does not somehow promote profligacy. All it does is it says you got to pay the bills that you’ve already racked up, Congress. It’s a basic function of making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is preserved.”

Obama went on to suggest that “the average person” mistakenly thinks that raising the debt ceiling means the U.S. is racking up more debt:

“It’s always a tough vote because the average person thinks raising the debt ceiling must mean that we’re running up our debt, so people don’t like to vote on it, and, typically, there’s some gamesmanship in terms of making the President’s party shoulder the burden of raising the — taking the vote.”

Behold the greatness that is The One…bask in his profligate wisdom you unwashed masses!

Wyznowski on September 18, 2013 at 7:37 PM

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:23 PM

I hear you!..Actually that is a cnn and cns thing not HA..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 7:37 PM

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:08 PM

…love you!

KOOLAID2 on September 18, 2013 at 7:11 PM

Hey Mr. Kool!! I read that you had a bit of a work delay (pun intended:-) Just regroup if you haven’t already.

xo

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:39 PM

I hear you!..Actually that is a cnn and cns thing not HA..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 7:37 PM

They don’t love us? LOL Thanks for letting me know.

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:42 PM

on fighting Obiecare in the future and defeating Obiecare..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM

Dire, what’s the Spelunker of the House gonna do differently in the future?…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 7:45 PM

I think Avik’s analysis is spot on and he makes some good suggestions on fighting Obiecare in the future and defeating Obiecare..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 7:36 PM

I could see where he was coming from on several of his points. Another thread is up I see. Going to take a break:-)

Oh, I need to read that other link you posted, as I have the site up waiting on me. It’s hard trying to catch up!! LOL

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:45 PM

Dire, what’s the Spelunker of the House gonna do differently in the future?…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 7:45 PM

I think an aide said he was retiring in 2014? I would rather he run again so we can defeat him!!!

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:47 PM

A good first step would be to stop buying into the Dem talking points issued by the MSM that a government shut down will automatically give Obama a big win. Where the hell is that rule written? It’s the same song and dance with people like you. We must surrender, because if we fight, we might lose.

xblade on September 18, 2013 at 4:06 PM

Yep…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 7:48 PM

I think an aide said he was retiring in 2014? I would rather he run again so we can defeat him!!!

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:47 PM

I’ll chip for an early retirement present if he leaves — NOW…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Boehner, if Dingy and DEMs reject HJ 62 the DEFUND Bill, it is THEM who will shut govt down

let Cruz and Lee take over the messaging and you just practise NOT BLINKING in front of a mirror, ….. WIMP

#BeClingers ————–> #AmericaRISING

exodus2011 on September 18, 2013 at 7:37 PM

I heard about what Buffett said. Better late than never I guess.

Is this HJ 62 a separate bill to defund? I thot the CR included language to defund.

Thanks.

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:51 PM

“USA Today had a big front-page feature on the new healthcare law, and said that the opposition to ObamaCare at all-time high. In fact, it’s gotten so bad the President’s now calling it BidenCare.”

Jay Leno…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 7:53 PM

In fact, it’s gotten so bad the President’s now calling it BidenCare.”

Jay Leno…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 7:53 PM

LOL, good one. Levin calls it Boehnercare:-)

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 8:00 PM

Dire, what’s the Spelunker of the House gonna do differently in the future?…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 7:45 PM

That depends on how 2014 goes..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 8:01 PM

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 7:47 PM

I’ll chip for an early retirement present if he leaves — NOW…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 7:49 PM

I think we all would. That weasel Cantor thinks he’s next in line.
The House R’s better not be that stupid.

bluefox on September 18, 2013 at 8:02 PM

That depends on how 2014 goes..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Sheeeit…

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Gohawgs on September 18, 2013 at 8:17 PM

LoLz..What do you expect him to do??..:)

Dire Straits on September 18, 2013 at 8:26 PM

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