Video: Piers Morgan and the scourge of the AR-15 shotgun, or something; Update: FBI confirms no AR-15 used in Navy Yard shooting

posted at 10:01 am on September 17, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Presented mostly as a public service, since nothing in this segment will change minds, nor was it designed to do so.  CNN’s Piers Morgan wanted to gather a panel for a public beating over the mass shooting at the Washington Navy Yard and the AR-15 rifle used in the crime as a means for arguing for a federal assault-rifle ban.  John Lott and Ben Ferguson exist only in this paradigm as objects for Morgan’s righteous anger and indignation, but instead operate more as a sounding board for his ignorance:

Unfortunately for Morgan and practically everyone else who leaped to exploit this for an assault-weapons ban, the shooter apparently only carried a shotgun into the base and may not have had an AR-15 at all.  And note, by the way, that CNN buried this little tidbit today in a retrospective on crimes in which the AR-15 has been used:

However, federal law enforcement sources told CNN Tuesday that authorities have recovered three weapons from the scene of the mass shooting, including one — a shotgun — that investigators believe Alexis brought in to the compound. The other two weapons, which sources say were handguns, may have been taken from guards at the Navy complex.

The sources, who have detailed knowledge of the investigation, cautioned that initial information that an AR-15 was used in the shootings may have been incorrect. It is believed that Alexis had rented an AR-15, but returned it before Monday morning’s shootings. Authorities are still investigating precisely how many weapons Alexis had access to and when.

In other words, just as in so many other breaking news stories of this type, people latch onto rumor and bad data to build entire arguments on vapor.  Instead of rushing into the hype, Morgan might have waited, oh, perhaps 24 or 48 hours for the facts — if he had any interest in informed public debate.  Morgan, however, appears interested only in shouted demagoguery and the aforementioned public-beating style of “journalism,” rather than allowing his guests an opportunity to speak, as this five minutes amply proves.

Even more laughably, CNN offered this explanation of a weapon [see update] that not only may not have been involved in the incident, but also certainly doesn’t exist (via Twitchy):

ar15-shotgun

The AR-15 isn’t a shotgun; it’s a semi-automatic rifle.  There is a vast difference between the two types of firearms.  Also, Alexis didn’t purchase an AR-15, but apparently rented one before the shooting, as CNN reports, and in any event may not have used an AR-15 at all in this mass murder spree.  Why should we bother to pay attention to self-righteous “experts” on gun violence who don’t know the first thing about guns? Or to a network that buries the lede on a key correction on the weapons reporting in a piece about a weapon that turns out not to have anything to do with the crime?

Maybe CNN should be asking itself that question.

Update: The FBI confirms that the AR-15 was not used in the massacre:

Update: Here’s the question I asked earlier on Twitter:

Maybe we can have an hour of this instead of Morgan tonight:

Update: Instapundit calls this an “epic fail” for “agenda journalism.” Sometimes, it seems there is no other kind.

Update: Initially, I thought the “AR-15 shotgun” chyron appeared during Morgan’s show, but was apparently on Anderson Cooper’s. I changed the reference above.


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You can rent an AR-15? Really? Never heard of renting a gun, but then I don’t get out much. I know you can buy time with them at some ranges but never heard of renting to take out.

Oldnuke on September 17, 2013 at 10:40 AM

That’s why we have to close that gun show rental loophole thingy.

chewmeister on September 17, 2013 at 12:06 PM

What happened in DC has zero legitimate bearing on the question of whether or not AR-15s and such should be more or less regulated.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:44 AM

verbaluce, “Ignore that man (Morgan) behind the curtain!”

socalcon on September 17, 2013 at 12:06 PM

I have seen people on the street talking…

petunia on September 17, 2013 at 12:07 PM

Again, I’m not interested in a gun-control debate here.
I guess mine is more of a gun-control-debate debate.
Sorry.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 12:01 PM

They’re one and the same. You can’t separaye the issue from the manner in which you try to debate it.

But that’s the liberal way right? You try to control, the debate, you think you’ll ultimately control, the thing.

smoothsailing on September 17, 2013 at 12:07 PM

Gun Bans: Mad Dogs & Englishmen

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 11:49 AM

Specifically, if one removes certain ‘areas’ from the larger cities with high gun crime, the rate of murder and assaults with guns drops precipitously.

For instance: If the Pine Hills and Metro-West ‘areas’ of Whorelando are removed from the equation, our gun crime drops to Beverly Hills levels.

Let us just say that those particular ‘areas’ contain mostly ‘democrat’ voters…

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Why do they use guns as a reason to ignore the mentally ill?

I have people talking to invisible people in public, and no one, including myself did anything other than walk around them, move to the other side of the room or cross the street.

Yet, we all know they are out there. Why would anyone with a clear mind stand around and ask for money from strangers? A temporary circumstance maybe, but as a way of life? That should be a recognized mental illness.

All of the killers lately have had one thing in common. Mental illness that was not taken seriously as dangerous to others.

That is what needs addressing.

I know it could be a slippery slope… but honestly, we need to stop ignoring the fact that false psychiatry is hurting, killing, a lot of people in this country.

All the killers of the past few years should have been put in an institution or some kind of strict parole. Yet they roamed free, free to kill with abandon.

petunia on September 17, 2013 at 12:05 PM

Missing the word “seen”… wish there was an edit feature.

petunia on September 17, 2013 at 12:09 PM

White guy
Tea Party
Anti-government type
AR-15

C’mon, we’re running out of memes here, people.

/

mankai on September 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM

Christia… Nah…

Rats!

(BTW, how do all the peace-lovin’, Prius-drivin’, neo-Budhs feel about this…?)

Hieronymus on September 17, 2013 at 12:09 PM

If they don’t, how are we to be assured that their new rules will not have negative impacts or no impact at all other than diluting the rights of law-abiding citizens?

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 11:59 AM

obama’care’

Schadenfreude on September 17, 2013 at 12:04 PM

Exactamundo!

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 12:09 PM

socalcon on September 17, 2013 at 12:02 PM

:-)

Again, I’m not interested in a gun-control debate here.
I guess mine is more of a gun-control-debate debate.
Sorry.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 12:01 PM

Is that akin to ‘rape-rape’?

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Then you should just ignore me, right?

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 12:04 PM

You can’t ignore an ignoramus like yourself spouting ignorance on all of these threads.

It’s your natural born ability.

sentinelrules on September 17, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Now ‘The feds’ instead of yesterday’s ‘Obama’.
I applaud the adjustment in your argument.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:06 AM

Who do you think is the chief executive of the “feds”? Hint: George W Bush has been out of office for the past 5 years.

Perhaps Dick Cheney is using mind-control rays to turn President Obama and the members of his administration into completely incompetent, mindless drones.

I realize that, in a government the size of ours, “stuff happens”. The problem is, the same “stuff” keeps happening. (In this case, having “cleared” individuals “unexpectedly” fly off the handle – while they were displaying past behavior indicating they would be an obvious risk.) This indicates administrative incompetence on a grand scale.

SubmarineDoc on September 17, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Gun control is a red herring, a way to avoid the real debate that needs to happen. It is pleasant, to talk about putting people away because they “might” be dangerous.

I know a man. A good man. Who has developed a serious mental illness, and his children, his wife, are very worried that he could become violent with himself or others, they took away his guns… actually he gave them away in the beginning of his illness, but now he buys guns all the time, expensive guns. He has signed papers that will not allow his wife to see his illness or who is treating him with what. He was institutionalized for a while… he was getting drugs from many doctors and they straightened him out… but then let him out again.

He is dangerous. His family can do nothing. How would a doctor know if he was the only doctor giving him drugs?

These are the real problems that a masked over by this talk of gun control.

petunia on September 17, 2013 at 12:14 PM

That’s not true! I’m told that America is the most dangerous place in the world for gun crimes!

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 11:56 AM

It’s true. Just last week we had a gun roll an old lady for her bingo money. There is still and APB out on the sucker. It was described as black, which brought out lots of cries of racism and profiling, L shaped and about 5 inches tall.

Gun deaths per 100,000. Stats from Gunpolicy.org. An anti-gun site so may be suspect.
USA
2011: 3.61
2010: 3.59
2009: 3.75
2008: 4.01
2007: 4.19
2006: 4.29
2005: 4.18
2004: 3.97
2003: 4.11
2002: 4.11
2001: 3.98
2000: 3.84
1999: 3.88
1998: 3.37
1993: 7.07

England
2011: 0.06
2010: 0.05
2009: 0.04
2008: 0.06
2007: 0.02
2006: 0.10
2005: 0.06
2004: 0.06
2003: 0.05
2002: 0.07
2001: 0.06
2000: 0.12
1999: 0.08
1998: 0.06
1997: 0.08
1996: 0.14

Australia
2010: 0.13
2009: 0.16
2008: 0.13
2007: 0.13
2006: 0.20
2005: 0.07
2004: 0.07
2003: 0.27
2002: 0.23
2001: 0.24
2000: 0.30
1999: 0.26
1998: 0.30
1997: 0.43
1996: 0.57
1995: 0.37
1994: 0.43
1993: 0.36
1992: 0.55
1991: 0.49
1990: 0.46
1989: 0.48
1988: 0.74

Switzerland
2010: 0.52
2009: 0.72
2008: 0.24
2007: 0.46
2006: 0.45
2005: 0.64
2004: 0.81
2003: 0.6
2002: 0.9
2001: 0.7
2000: 0.6
1999: 1.0
1998: 0.9
1994: 0.58

Israel
2009: 0.94
2008: 0.83
2007: 0.11
2006: 0.71
2005: 0.84
2004: 0.98
2003: 0.85
2002: 1.39
2001: 1.6
2000: 1.18
1999: 0.65
1997: 0.26
1996: 0.4
1993: 0.72

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 17, 2013 at 12:14 PM

It’s quite possible this guy saw Sarah Palin’s crosshair posts and took her advice literally.

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 12:14 PM

White guy
Tea Party
Anti-government type
AR-15

C’mon, we’re running out of memes here, people.

/

mankai on September 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM

He was clearly a White-African-American.

The Rogue Tomato on September 17, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Still need that edit feature… I don’t see the missing words until too late.

petunia on September 17, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 17, 2013 at 12:14 PM

You’re lying! You prolly got that from Faux News or some Republican mouthpiece website!

WHEN are you people gonna wake up and realize that the democrats want to HELP people? They CARE!!!!

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Now ‘The feds’ instead of yesterday’s ‘Obama’.
I applaud the adjustment in your argument.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:06 AM

Duh….the chief of the feds is….ta-rahhhhhh…wait…obama!

Schadenfreude on September 17, 2013 at 12:17 PM

You can rent an AR-15? Really? Never heard of renting a gun, but then I don’t get out much. I know you can buy time with them at some ranges but never heard of renting to take out.

Oldnuke on September 17, 2013 at 10:40 AM

I have never heard of being able to rent any weapon and then return it. It’s not a library book, it’s a gun and it doesn’t leave the store/range. That being said, there is a gun store/range near me that has close to a dozen bada$$ rifles they will allow you to shoot for a fee. That’s the only rental I am aware of.

RandallinHerndon on September 17, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Mental illness that was not taken seriously as dangerous to others.

That is what needs addressing.

I know it could be a slippery slope… but honestly, we need to stop ignoring the fact that false psychiatry is hurting, killing, a lot of people in this country.

One of the main agenda items of the progressive left has been to weaken the efforts to diagnose and get off the streets those who have serious mental illness.

Which slippery slope do we want? The one projected by those enamored with ‘social justice’ who believe that efforts to identify and segregate the mentally ill from society is a basic wrong, an affront to their rights, and that the risk posed is minimal? Or the slippery slope that takes the mentally ill, the dangerous, and leaves them on the streets, in positions where they can snap and kill?

In NYC, earlier this year, there was a rash of attacks where mentally ill individuals pushed innocent people to their deaths in front of subway cars. Years ago, these people would have been off the streets, undergoing direct treatment for their illnesses, and unable to commit those crimes. But the policies that did those are being ended, described as ‘fascist’ by the real fascists.

So much of the lamestream media looks at this tragedy and focuses their efforts towards pushing their gun control agenda – but where are the questions being asked about accountability and responsibility?

Accountability and responsibility of those within the military complex who yet again failed to successfully vet and identify someone who was given security clearances and a job, yet had mental illness and a history of misconduct – including misconduct with firearms? Snowden, Manning, Alexis, and how many more we don’t know about…. yet.

Why aren’t our government’s vetting processes being looked at? Because to do so would ‘infringe rights’ and not fit the concept of ‘social justice’.

Athos on September 17, 2013 at 12:18 PM

He was clearly a White-African-American.

The Rogue Tomato on September 17, 2013 at 12:15 PM

According to Robert Byrd, you can use the “N” word then.

cozmo on September 17, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Sorry. I am not capable of presenting idiocy as clearly and concisely and as reasonable-so as verbaldouche.

I’m more of a libdieorfree in that regard…

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 12:19 PM

*-sounding

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 12:19 PM

He was clearly a White-African-American.

The Rogue Tomato on September 17, 2013 at 12:15 PM

A light black is more like it…but “what difference does it make?”

Schadenfreude on September 17, 2013 at 12:23 PM

This is proof why there s/b at test ahead of being qualified to vote.

Schadenfreude on September 17, 2013 at 12:06 PM

Oh, Schad.
You think you’ve got a job to do…and you’re committed.
EOTM parking space awaits.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 12:23 PM

FBI confirms no AR-15 used in Navy Yard shooting

Apparently the media needs gun control

faraway on September 17, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Exactly which gun law would have prevented the Navy Yard shooting?

faraway on September 17, 2013 at 12:24 PM

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Shells are found in the ocean and on beaches, nitwit.

chewmeister on September 17, 2013 at 12:25 PM

The bed wetter press rolls on.

Jaibones on September 17, 2013 at 12:26 PM

This is a quibble but could we refrain from calling that POS Fort Hood Shooter by his former military rank? Terrorists don’t deserve that kind of respect.

Happy Nomad on September 17, 2013 at 10:51 AM

You’re correct but look at it this way. He got to be a Major through PC bullsiht enabled and perpetuated by the US Army. Every time you use his rank it’s a slap in the face to those who allowed him to rise to that rank. Unfortunately it’s also an insult to those who actually earned it.

Oldnuke on September 17, 2013 at 10:55 AM

For a doctor in the Army, achieving the rank of major is mostly a matter of time in grade.

There Goes the Neighborhood on September 17, 2013 at 12:27 PM

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Exhibit 1002 why you are such ‘fun’.

Schadenfreude on September 17, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Exactly which gun law would have prevented the Navy Yard shooting?

faraway on September 17, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Anything X zero = zero :)

Schadenfreude on September 17, 2013 at 12:28 PM

We need a Republican to take this war right into the maw of the Left, and at exacly moments like this. We need someone to go into the lion’s den of these shows and blame Barack Obama for gun violence. We need to knock them sideways. Blame Obama’s society — the social breakdown caused by his policies and influence. The loss of jobs, the disintegration of the middle class, the growing unrest and violence in the minority communities, loss of insurance due to Obamacare and the threat of Obamacare, the unsavory people he hangs out with — the general sense of decay and despair we increasingly feel is producing social breakdown and it’s HIS fault.

This is what the Left did under Bush. Turnabout is more than fair play, espcially since all these things are true where before they weren’t. This is Obama’s part-time, alienated, desperate and lost society. Blame him. The gun violence is simply a reflection of the social breakdown.

Now he wants to blame the breakdown on the last contingent of truly responsible Americans — gun owners. Don’t let him. Flip the entire argument on him and the Left.

What Obama and the Left is doing is called “Kafkatrapping” — or one aspect of it — that is, create a problem so your authoritarian solution can erode and disable society and frustrate people thereby compounding the problem and further pressing the argument for more authoritarianism.

Call him on it. Call the filthy bast*rd on it.

rrpjr on September 17, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Again, I’m not interested in a gun-control debate here.
I guess mine is more of a gun-control-debate debate.
Sorry.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 12:01 PM

Is that akin to ‘rape-rape’?

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Now you’re just being clever stupid silly.
Again, sorry if you’re missing my point.
But you wont not for back-pats and cheers from the usual drones.
So carry on…I’m off to lunch.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 12:28 PM

An AR-15 shotgun. Like to see the size of that thing.

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM

I would like to have one

RandallinHerndon on September 17, 2013 at 12:30 PM

I’m off out to lunch.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Bon appétit verbie. Make sure brain gets some good food too :)

Schadenfreude on September 17, 2013 at 12:31 PM

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 17, 2013 at 12:14 PM

But, crime hasn’t fallen as much in response. For example, knife crimes skyrocketed after the UK gun ban.

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 12:33 PM

He obviously took Joe Biden’s advice and got a shotgun.

Did he shoot through a door?

The Rogue Tomato on September 17, 2013 at 12:34 PM

You can rent an AR-15? Really? Never heard of renting a gun, but then I don’t get out much. I know you can buy time with them at some ranges but never heard of renting to take out.

Oldnuke on September 17, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Far as I know it works the way you are describing. MAYBE a renting for a hunting trip, but that still seems, I dunno, off.

I think the guy probably went to a range and put some time in with an AR, that way when he ripped one off a dead guy he would know how to use it.

Sick as that sounds.

Gatsu on September 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

What happened in DC has zero legitimate bearing on the question of whether or not AR-15s and such should be more or less regulated.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:44 AM

You’re talking to the wrong person. You should be writing Steny Hoyer and telling him not to bring this shooting to the AR-15-ban-and-ammo-capacity-and-background-check party.

The Schaef on September 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Asking for a friend. #caring

???

KS Rex on September 17, 2013 at 12:55 PM

I think the guy probably went to a range and put some time in with an AR, that way when he ripped one off a dead guy he would know how to use it.

Sick as that sounds.

Gatsu on September 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

That seems likely, logical.
Yes, I know of ranges where you can rent a gun to try it out, and you typically have to buy their ammo (so you don’t ruin their gun with hot loads or cheap stuff). But you can’t take it away from the range.
Since many military/security police carry an M16, what you suggest is quite logical. He may have figured he could surprise an an MP with the shotgun and take his weapons – which it looks like he may have actually done – but apparently did not get an M16 – just handguns.
On the technicality side – if he had succeeded in that – he would have gotten a military M16 and NOT a civilian AR-15.

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 12:57 PM

On the technicality side – if he had succeeded in that – he would have gotten a military M16 and NOT a civilian AR-15.

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Civilians cannot get M16s, thus the designation would be lost on a LIV.
The select-a-switch was prolly set to semi.

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 1:04 PM

The Left:

But it was a GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNN!!

PappyD61 on September 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM

Someone better not tell CNN about the Phase Plasma Rifle that Schwarzenegger tried to buy (steal) in the Terminator.

I want me a AR-15 phase plasma shotgun….

William Eaton on September 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM

PappyD61

Maybe if one of your loved ones dies of gun violence you won’t be quite so cavalier. Oh forget it. You don’t give a sh*t anyway. Back to the Fritos!

lostmotherland on September 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

The rants – comical and boring.
The mass shooting (again!) – unbelievably tragic, both for the horror of it…and that it just isn’t the most shocking news to wake up to anymore.
 
verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:33 AM

 
I agree that it’s sad the twelve people were killed. FWIW, I also think it’s tragic that the same happens every weekend in Chicago.
 

The mass shooting (again!) – unbelievably tragic, both for the horror of it…

 
Fortunately you’ve given us another opportunity to verify your sincerity, consistency, and deeply-held moral position, verbaluce:
 
HIV-AIDS is directly responsible for matching 80% of the annual number of firearms deaths

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/aids-hiv.htm
 
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

 

The estimated incidence of HIV has remained stable overall in recent years, at about 50,000 new HIV infections per year
 
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html

 
Remember:
 

What happened in DC has zero legitimate bearing on the question of whether or not AR-15s and such should be more or less regulated.
 
verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:44 AM

 
Ready?
 
Should HIV+ citizens have their abilities and freedoms regulated in an attempt to save thousands of non-carriers from HIV/AIDS death and injury each year?

rogerb on September 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM

More than 45%: The decrease in the number of gun prosecutions by the Obama administration compared to the Bush administration.

Even though 93% of ALL guns used in gun-related crimes are obtained ILLEGALLY and ‘assault weapons’ were associated with less than 323 of the 12,664 homicides (from all causes) committed in 2011, let’s pass MORE GUN CONTROL LAWS for Obama NOT TO ENFORCE!!!

‘We don’t have time to prosecute everybody who lies on background checks.’

- Vice-President Joe Biden

Without LibLogic®, life would be utterly boring…

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Gun control is a red herring, a way to avoid the real debate that needs to happen. It is pleasant, to talk about putting people away because they “might” be dangerous.

petunia on September 17, 2013 at 12:14 PM

You do not know the half of it – it is a lot worse than you think.

A couple of weeks ago, I tried to have a patient (severely mentally ill) committed after an overdose. (In the Commonwealth of Virginia, a non-psychiatrist such as myself cannot actually commit someone on our own authority – we have to work through state social service agencies). He was openly fantasizing about getting a gun and killing a lot of people. However, under Virginia law, you cannot commit someone unless they are suicidal, or have homicidal plans against A SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL. A plan to buy a gun and shoot a bunch of kids is not enough to have you committed.

I wanted to notify the National Instant Check System (a database maintained by the FBI which is used to screen potential gun buyers for a history of felony or mental illness). My hospital legal department told me not to.

Fortunately, I was able to find a mental health caseworker who was savvy enough to convince the magistrate to allow us to get him committed. (The first caseworker that I contacted just wanted to cut him loose, so he could kill.)

SubmarineDoc on September 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Civilians cannot get M16s, thus the designation would be lost on a LIV.
The select-a-switch was prolly set to semi.

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 1:04 PM

Pretty much my point. What he would have gotten off a guard would depend on what kind of guard was there. If military – i.e. MP or SP, they might be carrying an M16; if a civilian/contractor type rent-a-cop guard, they might have an AR-15.
But it looks more like the guards he got were only carrying sidearms.
Given that the libs don’t even understand how clueless they are about saying AR-15 shotgun – they sure as hell wouldn’t understand the difference between an M16 and AR-15 – they’re all just skeery black assault rifles….

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Maybe if one of your loved ones dies of gun violence you won’t be quite so cavalier. Oh forget it. You don’t give a sh*t anyway. Back to the Fritos!
 
lostmotherland on September 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

 
Same question, lostmotherland.
 
Annual gun and AIDS death numbers are almost identical.
 
Should HIV+ citizens have their abilities and freedoms regulated in an attempt to save thousands of non-carriers from HIV/AIDS death and injury each year?

rogerb on September 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM

just placed my order for an AR15 shotgun…

burserker on September 17, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Waiting for the outbreak of another meme about “renting firearms over the Internet”.

Socratease on September 17, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Or about those awful AR-15 rental loopholes at gun shows.

RandallinHerndon on September 17, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Maybe if one of your loved ones dies of gun violence you won’t be quite so cavalier. Oh forget it. You don’t give a sh*t anyway. Back to the Fritos!

lostmotherland on September 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

Maybe if one of your loved ones dies because of a drunk driver, you wouldn’t be quite so cavalier that the state issues driver’s licenses to just about anyone who can pass the test.

Oh well. Back to that bong.

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 1:21 PM

What happened in DC has zero legitimate bearing on the question of whether or not AR-15s and such should be more or less regulated.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:44 AM

I agree. And, if the shooter in DC had an AR-15 it would still have no bearing on the issue. They should not be regulated (in the way you mean regulated) regardless of whether some person puts the tool to a criminal use. We do not take vehicles away from all Americans because some people drive drunk or use the vehicles in the commission of other crimes. And owning a vehicle is not a right enshrined in the Constitution.

Monkeytoe on September 17, 2013 at 1:23 PM

Annual gun and AIDS death numbers are almost identical.

Should HIV+ citizens have their abilities and freedoms regulated in an attempt to save thousands of non-carriers from HIV/AIDS death and injury each year?

rogerb on September 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM

Don’t attempt to use logic when arguing with a lefty. They don’t understand logic. They only understand emotion. You have to say you are “outraged” and “feel terrible” and that we “must do something.”

Monkeytoe on September 17, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Maybe if one of your loved ones dies of gun violence you won’t be quite so cavalier. Oh forget it. You don’t give a sh*t anyway. Back to the Fritos!

lostmotherland on September 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

So you’d be ok with “one of your loved ones” being stabbed to death, beaten to death with a flashlight/bat/club, strangled, gang-raped and kicked to death, or some other method – as long as it’s not a gun, right?
More people are killed every year by those methods than are shot with “assault rifles” – but you don’t see any need to do anything about those deaths, right?

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 1:25 PM

~1.5 million: The estimated number of AR-15s in the United States in 1994.

I would love to see those numbers now. The lib pucker factor would be fun to watch.

RandallinHerndon on September 17, 2013 at 1:25 PM

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM

I don’t know what they have to be honest. It would seem they’d be unlikely to need a full-auto at a Naval installation. I don’t know how the DOD orders that stuff. One would think all military weapons were the same style, since they do provide the option for selective fire. But then again, what do cops need with full autos? Just because some street punk is shooting at you with one doesn’t mean you need one to take him out. I would think the cops would want to be more prudent about spraying the area with bullets, lest the media give them a bad name. As if they need help with that nowadays.

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Maybe if one of your loved ones dies of gun violence you won’t be quite so cavalier.

lostmotherland on September 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

Given the way you seem to want to define cavalier, the answer may surprise you.

The Schaef on September 17, 2013 at 1:32 PM

You’re lying!
Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 12:16 PM

No I’m not! Give me a couple of days and I will provide a police report, eyewitness testimony, and a police artist drawing of the gun that allegedly rolled the old lady. Just don’t run any of it through Photoshop.

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 17, 2013 at 1:37 PM

But, crime hasn’t fallen as much in response. For example, knife crimes skyrocketed after the UK gun ban.

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 12:33 PM

True. I’m not sure why I even posted those stats. They are from an firearm unfriendly site so I take them with a grain of salt. They even have it broken down by long gun, hand gun, suicide etc and I’m not sure that all countries or even states provide that much detail on firearm related deaths.

Dr. Frank Enstine on September 17, 2013 at 1:40 PM

Maybe if one of your loved ones dies of gun violence you won’t be quite so cavalier. Oh forget it. You don’t give a sh*t anyway. Back to the Fritos!

lostmotherland on September 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

According to the CDC, ’112 million times a year alcohol-impaired drivers put you at risk.

But, but, but, we have drunk-driving laws and they prevent drunk-driving or something!

In 2010, 10,228 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes.

To put that into perspective, there were 11,078 gun-related homicides that year.

A difference of 850 lives…and, yet, we have infinitely more gun control laws on the books than we do drunk-driving statutes.

So, using your emotion-driven logic, we should reinstate Prohibition – after all, it worked out so well the last time.

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM

From what I see of the Air Force SPs at the bases I’ve been on, they all appear to have a standard issue M16 and a sidearm – especially on bases with “deadly force authorized” type facilities/operations. I don’t know about the Navy, but for Air Force, the SPs are “force protection” for the base, prepared to defend the base from enemy attack (yes, even within the US) – so they’re not just cops. I know years ago they used to have 2 sides – law enforcement (gates, traffic, etc) and security (guarding/protecting the planes, missiles, nukes, and high priority facilities). Not really sure if they still have that split or if they’re all considered force protection now.

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 1:49 PM

(BTW, how do all the peace-lovin’, Prius-drivin’, neo-Budhs feel about this…?)

Hieronymus on September 17, 2013 at 12:09 PM

Neo-Budhs… yeah, that’s about right, funny stuff there. ;> Most of those type have zero clue what it is to be Buddhist. They’re just greenies with a hatred of Western civilization and want an excuse to shriek “KARMA” at everyone they dislike. Their opinion on his claim to be a practicing Buddhist is only slightly less valuable than Alexis’ own. If only one thing could be taught and learned as a Buddhist, it must be: that Life is precious.

What so many of the Neo-Budhs fail to grasp in that, is the logical conclusion. Life is precious and therefor worth defending, even violently. It’s Nature’s way. The Tiger has claws, but the Horse has hooves.

PXCharon on September 17, 2013 at 1:51 PM

~ 1.5 million: The estimated number of AR-15s in the United States in 1994.

I would love to see those numbers now. The lib pucker factor would be fun to watch.

RandallinHerndon on September 17, 2013 at 1:25 PM

3,261,725: The number of estimated AR-15s in the United States in 2009.

5.0%: Overall homicide rate in the US in 2009, FIVE YEARS AFTER THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN EXPIRED.

Gun Control By The Numbers

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 1:51 PM

lostmotherland on September 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

So, using your emotion-driven logic, we should reinstate Prohibition – after all, it worked out so well the last time.

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 1:46 PM

And ban cars and trucks…..
My interpretation is lost libtard is ok with a loved one being crushed to death in a mass of twisted metal and broken glass because, well, cars are useful and alcohol is legal; but oh the horror if someone gets shot with a gun!!!
Having that little piece of lead go through you is SOOO much more inhumane than a having 5 pound chunk of glass forced through you, or having a car door frame rip your head off.
Right lostmotherfaker?

No thought whatsoever of course that easily a million people a year use guns to prevent a criminal from brutally beating/raping/killing/robbing them.

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 2:02 PM

We need a Republican to take this war right into the maw of the Left, and at exacly moments like this. We need someone to go into the lion’s den of these shows and blame Barack Obama for gun violence.

rrpjr on September 17, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Only possible if we get control of news media outlets. As soon as an individual raises this argument he or she will be the subject of a full-court sliming, also known as “Borking” or “being Palined.”

The argument has the benefit of being true in a fashion. We did not see nearly so many of these incidents back in the days when the mentally ill could be confined to an institution, and institutions existed precisely for them. The Left abolished this option decades ago, and created the armies of homeless folks who live under the bridges in our major cities. Now they’re shooting at us, and we’re told it’s the weapon’s fault.

philwynk on September 17, 2013 at 2:08 PM

I thought it sounded a little fishy yesterday when almost immediately they knew he had an AR-15(specific), but didn’t know what kind of shotgun and handgun he had. Seemed a little too contrived to me. Wish I had posted something about it.

xblade on September 17, 2013 at 2:10 PM

Does anyone blame the car when some jackass decides to drive through a crowd of people?

Do they blame the car when a blue hair accidentally hits the gas pedal instead of the brake?

Just asking.

Do we blame our ASSAULT FORKS for obesity?

I’m telling you more people die from obesity every year than guns. We gotta ban ASSAULT FORKS, NOW!

dogsoldier on September 17, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Patrick Dollard ‏@PatDollard 3s

Navy Yard Shooter: Racist Navy Denied Me Promotions ‘Because Of The Color Of My Skin’

I predicted it yesterday!

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 2:14 PM

5.0%: Overall homicide rate in the US in 2009, FIVE YEARS AFTER THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN EXPIRED.

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 1:51 PM

Odd that you omitted what the homicide rate was BEFORE the assault weapons ban expired.

1999: 6.3

2004: 5.5

2011: 4.7

I guess the assault weapons ban did not prevent deaths by homicide. There does not seem to be any correlation between the weapons ban and the homicide rate.

philwynk on September 17, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Don’t attempt to use logic when arguing with a lefty. They don’t understand logic. They only understand emotion. You have to say you are “outraged” and “feel terrible” and that we “must do something.”

Monkeytoe on September 17, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Oh they understand it, alright. They simply refuse to hear, accept or acknowledge logic. It goes contrary to their talking points, you see, so they aren’t having it.

ghostwalker1 on September 17, 2013 at 2:16 PM

What happened in DC has zero legitimate bearing on the question of whether or not AR-15s and such should be more or less regulated.

verbaluce on September 17, 2013 at 11:44 AM

.
Wow … another statement relating to gun-control, that I don’t disagree with verbaluce over.

What’s the temperature in Hell, right now?

listens2glenn on September 17, 2013 at 2:18 PM

3,261,725: The number of estimated AR-15s in the United States in 2009.
Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 1:51 PM

From what I’ve seen of sales rates ever since Obumble’s coronation, I’d bet that number is easily doubled for 2013.
I’ve added 2 since Dec 2012 myself.

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 2:20 PM

Odd that you omitted what the homicide rate was BEFORE the assault weapons ban expired.

1999: 6.3

2004: 5.5

2011: 4.7

I guess the assault weapons ban did not prevent deaths by homicide. There does not seem to be any correlation between the weapons ban and the homicide rate.

philwynk on September 17, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Um, there was no ‘omission,’ but I can give you even more data:

The AWB or CCW Laws: Which Has Had More Of An Impact On The Murder Rate?

Chart of the Day: United States Homicide Rate 1885-2012

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 2:26 PM

From what I’ve seen of sales rates ever since Obumble’s coronation, I’d bet that number is easily doubled for 2013.
I’ve added 2 since Dec 2012 myself.

dentarthurdent on September 17, 2013 at 2:20 PM

Undoubtedly. That was the latest available figure when I wrote Gun Control By The Numbers in February.

Resist We Much on September 17, 2013 at 2:28 PM

Again, I’m not interested in a gun-control debate here.
I guess mine is more of a gun-control-debate debate.
Sorry.

verbaluce

Translation: I don’t want a debate, I just want to pontificate.

xblade on September 17, 2013 at 2:32 PM

The Left:

But it was a GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNN!!

PappyD61 on September 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM

.
Maybe if one of your loved ones dies of gun violence you won’t be quite so cavalier. Oh forget it. You don’t give a sh*t anyway. Back to the Fritos!

lostmotherland on September 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

.
If one of my loved ones dies from being shot by a gun-wielding criminal, I’m going to ask; “Why didn’t they (my loved one) draw their gun? Why didn’t the other law abiding citizens in the vicinity draw their guns?
.
BTW, what the blessed hang is “gun NON-violence”? If there’s no such thing, then there’s no such thing as “gun violence”, either.

I am NOT anti-violence. I am anti-lawlessness.
The word “violence” has been abused for way too long now.
.
Old western saying:

God didn’t make all men equal, Colonel Colt did.

listens2glenn on September 17, 2013 at 2:35 PM

So there was no AR involved.
People, we have GOT to stop reacting to these liars and our trolls.
Guy used a BiteMe approved shotgun. Matthew Shepard was murdered by his gay lover. Shelly Zimmerman was charged with assault on George, not the other way around.
I’m just as guilty of reacting too.

Lanceman on September 17, 2013 at 3:07 PM

MEDIA LIED…. Imagine that.

TX-96 on September 17, 2013 at 3:25 PM

It kills me when the anti-gun crowd tries to compare gun deaths in the USA vs Europe or Australia. As my brother always points out, who is a statistician for the CDC, they never take into account demographics. The only way to get a true comparison is to adjust for demographics and then get the numbers.

The Notorious G.O.P on September 17, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Dear Gun Control Bunch, c/o: Little Red Lyin, Press Release President,

Deport the guilty gun to Mexico. All problems solved, or at least, all optics Obamified.

Yours truly,

RushBaby on September 17, 2013 at 6:27 PM

White guy
Tea Party
Anti-government type
AR-15

C’mon, we’re running out of memes here, people.

/

mankai on September 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM

Christia… Nah…

Rats!

(BTW, how do all the peace-lovin’, Prius-drivin’, neo-Budhs feel about this…?)

Hieronymus on September 17, 2013 at 12:09 PM

Obviously Buddha did not create a Religion of Peace(tm) like Mr. Child Bride did. After all, didn’t Kung Fu come from Buddhist monks??

Nutstuyu on September 17, 2013 at 6:38 PM

The AR-15 shotgun is a notorious cop-killer when loaded with clips of high capacity ammunition, such as deleted uranium hollow-points.

David Blue on September 17, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Schadenfreude

Bmore on September 17, 2013 at 8:48 PM

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