Quotes of the day

posted at 8:01 pm on September 8, 2013 by Allahpundit

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a foreign policy fiasco…

It is to President Obama’s great discredit that he has staked this credibility on a vote whose outcome he failed to game out in advance. But if he loses that vote, the national interest as well as his political interests will take a tangible hit: for the next three years, American foreign policy will be in the hands of a president whose promises will ring consistently hollow, and whose ability to make good on his strategic commitments will be very much in doubt.

This is not an argument that justifies voting for a wicked or a reckless war, and members of Congress who see the Syria intervention in that light must necessarily oppose it.

But if they do, they should be prepared for the consequences: a damaged president, a potentially crippled foreign policy and a long, hard, dangerous road to January 2017.

***

Each morning for the last week, at 7:45, more than a dozen White House aides have mustered in the corner office of President Obama’s chief of staff, Denis R. McDonough, to get their marching orders for what has become the most intense, uphill lobbying campaign of the Obama presidency

To improve its odds, the White House is enlisting virtually every senior official from the president on down. In addition to members of Congress, it is reaching out to Jewish groups, Arab-Americans, left-leaning think tanks and even officials from the George W. Bush administration, some of whom are acting as surrogates…

The next phase of the campaign will be more individualized, and more from Mr. Obama himself. Democrats who are balking are being asked at least to vote against Republican procedural moves meant to delay or derail an up-or-down vote. After all the arguments are exhausted, aides said, it will come down to a personal pitch: the president needs you to save him from a debilitating public defeat…

The advocates will carry a simple message, according to a person involved in the effort: Syria is a proxy for Iran, and the failure to enforce Mr. Obama’s “red line” against the use of chemical weapons by Mr. Assad will be interpreted in Tehran as a sign that he will not enforce a red line against the production of nuclear weapons by the Iranian government.

***

The decision to use military force is one of the gravest responsibilities Members of Congress face, and it is one that I take very seriously. I have heard presentations and testimonies from the Administration on their case for military action, have read and studied the text of the authorization for the use of military force that will come before the Senate next week, and have listened to the concerns of thousands of Arkansans as I have traveled the state.

I have said, before any military action in Syria is taken, the Administration must prove a compelling national security interest, clearly define a mission that has a definitive end-state, and then build a true coalition of allies that would actively participate in any action we take. Based on the information presented to me and the evidence I have gathered, I do not believe these criteria have been met, and I cannot support military action against Syria at this time.

***

Top Bush administration officials have mobilized to sway a skeptical Republican party to authorize military intervention in Syria. As National Review Online reported, former national security adviser Stephen Hadley and former undersecretary of defense for policy Eric Edelman this week led a briefing on Capitol Hill for Republican legislative directors and chiefs of staff…

Hadley and Edelman urged House members to view the Syria issue in a broad context, in particular through the prism of Iran and America’s goal of extracting a negotiated settlement from President Rouhani and the mullahs. “In the Middle East, all issues are linked to each other,” they told the group. They encouraged a consideration of the Syria problem in light of the prospect of Iran armed with a nuclear weapon and, even absent that, as a nation seeking hegemony in the Gulf.

Their argument: If you hope to have a negotiated settlement with Iran, they only way you are going to get there is if the Iranians actually believe the use of force lies behind America’s efforts to negotiate. Hamstringing the president’s effort to use force against Syria now will “absolutely cripple and destroy” the chance to reach a diplomatic settlement with Iran.

***

The majority of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans serving in Congress are lining up against President Obama’s plan for military action in Syria.

Of the 16 veterans of those two conflicts serving in Congress, only GOP Reps. Adam Kinzinger (Ill.) and Tom Cotton (Ark.) have publicly supported the White House’s plan…

Their ranks include Rep. Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.), who lost both legs during combat operations in Iraq in 2004. She is adamantly opposed to a U.S. strike on Syria.

When Washington decides to use military force “it’s military families like mine that are the first to bleed,” she said in a statement this week.

***

Now the president who saw no benefit in wooing Democrats on the Hill is desperate for their love. Nancy Pelosi, the San Francisco peacenik, will have to win Barry the right to bomb.

Those around him say that, after the British poodle slipped its leash, Obama faced a gut check on his decision to have a strike. He had to dig deep and decide “This is who I am,” and be true to himself. To be Barry, editor of the Harvard Law Review.

In some ways, his reaction reflects his tendency toward mixing high principles with low motives. He believes it is proper to get Congressional approval and let the people chime in. But he also wanted to make life difficult for Congressional Republicans who like to “snipe,” using his word, from the sidelines with no accountability. He wanted to call their blustery bluff.

But who is going to get bluffed?

Obama had to know that once he threw this into the Congress, it was likely done for.

***

“Syria didn’t sneak up on us three weeks ago,” said Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), a White House antagonist who opposes authorizing force against Syria. “This has been a growing problem for nearly two years. President Obama and Secretary [Hillary] Clinton totally failed from day one to deal with the problem, articulate a strategy and communicate with Congress.”

When Obama changed his mind on whether to seek congressional approval to attack Syria, he did so in a Saturday afternoon Rose Garden address on a holiday weekend, the opening weekend of the college football season. Instead of having laid the groundwork and built quiet support to convince Congress and the public to back a use-of-force authorization and later announcing the president’s intent to do so, the White House worked in reverse.

Then Obama left the country for a trip to Sweden and the G-20 summit in Russia, stops that highlighted the administration’s inability to marshal much international opinion behind striking the regime, beyond a coalition even smaller than the one that supported Bush’s Iraq war.

***

[M]ost of what happens in foreign policy has nothing to do with threats—thank goodness. But that doesn’t mean that credibility isn’t important. Here’s one: in any negotiation with between the Palestinians and the Israelis, part of what the US will need to do is put some financial sweeteners on the table for the Palestinians—aid, compensation for refugees, whatever. The problem will be that these are empty promises unless Congress backs them up. Palestinians aren’t stupid; they know that foreign aid and especially aid for Palestinians isn’t exactly the most popular cause in the US. They will look at a president who’s just been repudiated in the most humiliating and direct way and ask themselves whether he can persuade Congress to pay up. They are likely to conclude that he can’t, and therefore will see the negotiations as a charade.

That’s just one example. Our Asian allies are being asked to bet the farm on whether the “pivot to Asia” will be real and whether it will last. Can President Obama push military appropriations through Congress? Can they assume that the next administration will follow through on commitments he makes?…

The vote on Syria will be a vote of confidence in President Obama’s leadership, and it will be seen around the world as a crucial test of his standing and power as President of the United States. There are good reasons to vote against what appears to be a classic example of inept military action in Syria, but to think that this vote won’t have serious consequences for President Obama’s ability to conduct the nation’s business is to stick your head in the sand.

***

As has been touched upon here before, the desire to avoid America in another foreign conflict is understandable. But if that is the policy, the president of the United States should not state that presidents of countries in upheaval (e.g., Bashar Assad) “must go,” should not draw “red lines” and ignore them, should not devise plans to punish rogue leaders but not actually damage their war-making ability, should not promise action and send forces to carry out the action, and then have, in current parlance, a public “conversation” with himself about whether to do anything, and should not thereby abdicate his great office in all respects except the salary and perquisites…

President Truman famously said, “The buck stops here,” and he was right. The American public despises Congress, with good reason. Most of the members are venal, politically cowardly, and incompetent; the idea of those 535 log-rolling gas-bags sharing the command of the U.S. armed forces does not bear thinking about. And if the United States is effectively blasé about countries using chemical weapons on their people, as it apparently is about the formerly “unacceptable” development of nuclear weapons by Iran, this depressing news should be imparted to the world explicitly by the administration and not left to be surmised from the waffling of the Congress.

What is more worrisome than the fact that the United States has an inadequate president, is that the public still accords the incumbent a significant degree of support. If the American people, who have responded to intelligent leadership so often within living memory, has become so morally obtuse that it buys into this flimflam, the problem is more profound than I imagined.

***

Representative Jim McGovern recommended that the Obama administration drop his request for congressional approval for military action in Syria because he doesn’t have the votes.

“If I were the president, I would withdraw my request for the authorization at this particular point,” said the Massachusetts Democrat, who opposes the military strike, on State of the Union this morning. “I don’t believe the support is there in Congress.”

***

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

***

Via the Corner.

***


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Ken!

bazil9 on September 8, 2013 at 8:03 PM

B9!!!!!!!!

KCB on September 8, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Theater of the Absurd: Obama and the Debate over Syria

The problem is that intelligence reports, as Reuters let its readers learn, “contradict Secretary of State John Kerry’s public assertions that moderate Syrian opposition groups are growing in influence [and] appear to be at odds with estimates by U.S. and European intelligence sources and nongovernmental experts, who say Islamic extremists remain by far the fiercest and best-organized rebel elements.”

The radical Islamists are better-organized, better-trained, and, while possibly numerically less, better-positioned to expand their influence and hence take over Syria if the Assad regime collapses. And the Nusra Front, by all accounts, is currently the most effective and best-armed of all the rebel groups. Hence even the true moderate forces see the need for joining with them in a coalition, a tactic that ensures the moderates’ eventual defeat in case of victory against the Assad armed forces. And it does not offer confidence that Kerry, when challenged by opponents in Congress who had doubts about Kerry’s belief that the moderates are gaining strength, based his answer that they are doing well on the views of a young, compromised “journalist” named Elizabeth O’Bagy.

The Reuters dispatch quotes the views of former intelligence analyst Joshua Foust, who says, “I’ve heard that there are moderate groups out there we could, in theory, support, but I’ve heard from those same people and my own contacts within (U.S. intelligence) that the scary people are displacing more and more moderate groups. Basically, the jihadists are setting up governance and community councils while the moderates exhaust themselves doing the heavy fighting.’” Most disturbing, Foust reports that four out of five commanders of the moderate Supreme Military Council of the rebel groups threatened to resign because they want to work with “all forces” fighting Assad, meaning the Nusra Front run by al-Qaeda.

Another European official also notes that while the forces in the east are perhaps more moderate than those in the south, they have broken up into gangs involved in enriching themselves. And today, Reuters reports that “the chief of staff of Germany’s armed forces, General Volker Wieker, also told lawmakers the influence of al-Qaeda linked forces with within the rebels was becoming stronger and stronger.”

So much for the argument presented last week by John Kerry. This evidence undercuts the case made by Cantor as well, since he argues the al-Qaeda is fighting the moderate groups in Syria, and that more jihadists will join the extremists unless we strike. If foreign intelligence is to be believed, such as that from German sources, they already have done just that.

How, then, will continued U.S. inaction undermine moderate forces, who seem to have already lost so much ground that their case seems rather hopeless? For the U.S. to come to their aid, as Cantor argues, would necessitate something much greater than the limited action President Obama has called for up to now.

So far, what the president has called for is anything but the kind of strike that will hurt the Assad regime’s military capacity. Moreover, he has not stated any post-attack plan that would entail not only real support to confirmed actual moderate groups, but also some kind of U.S. effort that could reinforce their strength and position them to win against both Muslim Brotherhood and Salafist elements, if indeed those do exist.

If no real plan exists — and Obama has not given us any evidence that it does — what Fareed Zakaria writes will be the outcome. “It will find it extremely difficult,” he writes, “to keep its actions limited in a volatile situation. And were it to succeed in ousting Assad, it would be implicated in the next phase of this war, which would almost certainly lead to chaos and the slaughter or ethnic cleansing of the Alawite sect (to which Assad belongs) and perhaps of other minorities, as happened in Iraq.”

So the old foreign-policy divisions have been swept away with the wind. Who would have thought that the hawkish position would be advanced by Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry, and that Republicans in both the House and Senate would be leading the opponents of intervention?

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:05 PM

“Anyone know if Obamba intends to perform
background checks on the Syrian rebels before providing
them weapons?”
Sen-Ted Cruz

bazil9 on September 8, 2013 at 8:07 PM

They are likely to conclude that he can’t, and therefore will see the negotiations as a charade.

Which also describes the Palestinians’ participation in negotiations for a ‘two-state solution,’ which they most certainly do not want.

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Obomber and his lemmings are out in force trying to push for this war like used car salesmen.

docflash on September 8, 2013 at 8:12 PM

I say this in all seriousness. Do you suppose that the thin-skinned rat has even thought beyond what tie looks most presidential for Tuesday’s speech?

I’m a twenty-year plus Surface Warfare Officer in the United States Navy. I’m a graduate of both the Naval War College and Air War College. I’ve never seen a situation this screwed up. Or a stupid group of partisans determined that the United States bomb Syria….. just because.

I’ve been physically sick this last week over this insanity. And I worry for the well-being of our sailors who will be harmed by the actions demanded by the rat-eared bastard and his minions.

Happy Nomad on September 8, 2013 at 8:13 PM

At this point, anything that puts a dagger through the heart of this rouge presidency should be welcomed.

Obama is a traitor to his nation and deserves nothing less than to spend the remainder of his life confined to a windowless cell in a military prison.

Truthfully, Benedict Arnold deserves the Medal of Honor compared to this miserable SOB.

We can pick up the pieces and deal with the consequences, but clearly and without fear of contradiction, Obama must go and as soon as humanly possible.

turfmann on September 8, 2013 at 8:14 PM

But if he loses that vote, the national interest [...] will take a tangible hit:

Incorrect. The national interest is served by rejecting this idiocy.

for the next three years, American foreign policy will be in the hands of a president whose promises will ring consistently hollow, and whose ability to make good on his strategic commitments will be very much in doubt.

ROFLMAO. What about the last four+ years and the foreign policy of this nation (the old US and the new AMerican Socialist Superstate) having been in the hands of an inept, dog-eating, third-world, America-hating retard who never kept his word on anything? America’s traditional allies were stabbed in the back from the first day this Indonesian turd slimed into an office he is neither eligible nor qualified for. America’s enemies were given aid and comfort by this traitor over that same time. Nothing will change.

This Douchehat guy really is one. I don’t know why Hotair gives his idiocy so much prominence. He’s just a fool working for a hack JournoList company spewing propaganda.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 8, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Hamstringing the president’s effort to use force against Syria now will “absolutely cripple and destroy” the chance to reach a diplomatic settlement with Iran.

These idiots are delusional. You cannot negotiate a settlement with members of the Hojjatieh Mahdatieh Society. These are the same people that believe the Syrian rebels are ‘moderates.’

BTW, for a real screamer in the ‘Make War, Not Love’ category, read Jen Rubin’s piece today. My word.

Rubio and others (read: Tea Party) run from internationalism when it matters

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Great…

Smithfield Foods Inc. (SFD), the world’s largest hog and pork producer, said U.S. regulators will allow the company to be bought by China’s Shuanghui International Holdings Ltd. in what would be the biggest Chinese purchase of a U.S. firm.

“This transaction will create a leading global animal protein enterprise,” Zhijun Yang, Chief Executive Officer of Shuanghui International, said in a joint statement from both companies released yesterday.

Murphy9 on September 8, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Smithfield Foods Inc. (SFD), the world’s largest hog and pork producer, said U.S. regulators will allow the company to be bought by China’s Shuanghui International Holdings Ltd. in what would be the biggest Chinese purchase of a U.S. firm.

“This transaction will create a leading global animal protein enterprise,” Zhijun Yang, Chief Executive Officer of Shuanghui International, said in a joint statement from both companies released yesterday.

Murphy9 on September 8, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Barky will be able to buy his roast puppy entree in the supermarket, now.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 8, 2013 at 8:16 PM

First “Cousin Eddie” POTUS fresh off Endless Vacation!

ConcealedKerry on September 8, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Just come out and say the intelligence is inconclusive, the WH is not sure Assad ordered the attack, and ask that the authorization be withdrawn.

Yeah, I know. Punt.

SteveMG on September 8, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Watch Russia – could be pretty big protests in Moscow tomorrow!

There is a disputed election for Moscow mayor – the Kremlin is pushing their candidate over 50% by means of election fraud. Opposition rejects the results and demands a runoff. Navalny has pledged to take to the streets tomorrow if the will of the people continues to be ignored.

Gingotts on September 8, 2013 at 8:19 PM

It is to President Obama’s great discredit that he has staked this credibility on a vote whose outcome he failed to game out in advance. But if he loses that vote, the national interest as well as his political interests will take a tangible hit: for the next three years, American foreign policy will be in the hands of a president whose promises will ring consistently hollow, and whose ability to make good on his strategic commitments will be very much in doubt.

This is not an argument that justifies voting for a wicked or a reckless war, and members of Congress who see the Syria intervention in that light must necessarily oppose it.

But if they do, they should be prepared for the consequences: a damaged president, a potentially crippled foreign policy and a long, hard, dangerous road to January 2017.

No sh!t. Short version: Elections have consequences.

Install a feckless clown, get a feckless foreign policy. What did you think was going to happen? As far as everything in the “they should be prepared” enumeration — let the summer bear it out.

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 8:24 PM

7 Percent Weiner Still Thinks His Magical Mayorship Is Just Around the Corner

‘From the moment go, I was waging this campaign on a bet. And the bet was basically that I know that people have embarrassing things they will hear about me and did know about me in my background, but I also knew that I had the best ideas and I’d be the best mayor for the city,.

So before we do postmortems on what happens if I lose, let’s have the campaign and let’s see if I win. And then we’ll move forward from there. And after I serve two terms, perhaps we can have that conversation.’

LMFAO

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Hamstringing the president’s effort to use force against Syria now will “absolutely cripple and destroy” the chance to reach a diplomatic settlement with Iran.

These idiots are delusional.

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Have we even been trying to reach diplomatic settlement with Iran? From my reckoning, we have been more interested in sluts like Sandra Fluke not having to pay for their birth control than we have normalizing relations with Iran. We care more about the death of a street thug who could have been Obama’s son than we do about nomalizing relations with Iran. We care more about stopping fracking than we do about normalizing relations with Iran.

But maybe I’ve missed something.

Happy Nomad on September 8, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Screamer,indeed.

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:25 PM
lmao with you and a few dignified snorts to boot.

bazil9 on September 8, 2013 at 8:29 PM

What is more worrisome than the fact that the United States has an inadequate president, is that the public still accords the incumbent a significant degree of support. If the American people, who have responded to intelligent leadership so often within living memory, has become so morally obtuse that it buys into this flimflam, the problem is more profound than I imagined

….well…nothing more needs to be said!

KOOLAID2 on September 8, 2013 at 8:31 PM

I know that I am a simple man, but it occurs to me that we wouldn’t have a Syrian problem or an Iranian problem if nobody lived there… Just sayin’…

PointnClick on September 8, 2013 at 8:33 PM

the failure to enforce Mr. Obama’s “red line” against the use of chemical weapons by Mr. Assad will be interpreted in Tehran as a sign that he will not enforce a red line against the production of nuclear weapons by the Iranian government.

Well, I guess there’s nothing to worry about then. Obama never drew a red line in the first place. I know, because I heard him say that on TV.

Burke on September 8, 2013 at 8:35 PM

So before we do postmortems on what happens if I lose, let’s have the campaign and let’s see if I win. And then we’ll move forward from there. And after I serve two terms, perhaps we can have that conversation.’

LMFAO

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Going out as the candidate that fights for the “little guy” against the machine. He wasn’t defeated because of his selfies. He was defeated because he was anti-establishment.

Before we laugh too much consider Marion Barry. When he went to jail for he was living in a million dollar home in NW DC. His post-jail political career started with putting on Kente cloth and moving to the blackest and poorest part of DC and he has been in office as a councilman for decades.

Weiner is doing much of the same. Running for office as the guy who is standing up against the establishment. It will take a few of these elections but that is his theme back to elective office.

Happy Nomad on September 8, 2013 at 8:37 PM

<blockquoteThe advocates will carry a simple message, according to a person involved in the effort: Syria is a proxy for Iran, and the failure to enforce Mr. Obama’s “red line” against the use of chemical weapons by Mr. Assad will be interpreted in Tehran as a sign that he will not enforce a red line against the production of nuclear weapons by the Iranian government. >

So now it is Obysmal’s “red line”? Can’t these people get their talking points straight?

Is Obysmal up and cracking at that 7:45am meeting? My guess is that he is still snoozing.

onlineanalyst on September 8, 2013 at 8:37 PM

Remember when 18 months was a rush to war?

Good times, good times.

jukin3 on September 8, 2013 at 8:43 PM

@RWM — just left u a thing over there. –lol

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Anyone talked to Mike?

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 8:45 PM

@RWM — just left u a thing over there. –lol

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Snicker.

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Evening to AP’s cats.
What?

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 8:51 PM

Napalm used in Syria?

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 8:53 PM

Remember when 18 months was a rush to war?

Good times, good times.

jukin3 on September 8, 2013 at 8:43 PM

This isn’t a war. It is a limited proportional response to send a message to the Assad regime about killing innocent Syrians by a sarin attack. We intend to kill innocent Syrians to send that message. That’ll teach Assad, right?

Happy Nomad on September 8, 2013 at 8:53 PM

The irony of most of these quotes is, the President and the political elite, feel the best reason for COngress to authorize the murder of innocent Syrians is to give this President, whose foreign policy ineptness has led us to this point, leverage with Iran, so he can continue to be inept in dealing with their quest for nuclear arms.

I hope our national press, who is most responsible for this mess, is proud of the way they’ve conducted themselves. I hope they understand that, if this President gets the authority to bomb Syria, that those innocent civilians (I believe we will be calling them collateral damage) blood should be on their hands because, if they had done their job, this President would not have been re-elected. Also, because of their continued love of this President, our country is in danger of becoming a joke in the world.

Just imagine, if you will, how Britain feels when, after Benghazi, which their intelligence service knew the facts behind, watched an American President send out the UN Ambassador to out and out lie to the American people. Then, watched that same President, go out and lie to the U.N. The Brits knew what happened and they knew he lied. Is it any surprise they chose to vote against siding with us?

bflat879 on September 8, 2013 at 8:54 PM

The advocates will carry a simple message, according to a person involved in the effort: Syria is a proxy for Iran, and the failure to enforce Mr. Obama’s “red line” against the use of chemical weapons by Mr. Assad will be interpreted in Tehran as a sign that he will not enforce a red line against the production of nuclear weapons by the Iranian government.

If we don’t beat the hell out of Syria, Iran won’t believe we are capable of or willing to beating the hell out of them.

Welcome to the prison yard.

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Remember when 18 months was a rush to war?

Good times, good times.

jukin3 on September 8, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Second, I frankly just don’t find the president and the administration to be in a headlong rush to use American military force. If anything they seem reluctant, hesitant, cautious.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/06/sen-chris-coons-on-the-u-s-s-three-missions-in-syria/

Three missions.

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 8:55 PM

beating — have to stop typing angry. :)

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 8:56 PM

The irony of most of these quotes is, the President and the political elite, feel the best reason for COngress to authorize the murder of innocent Syrians is to give this President, whose foreign policy ineptness has led us to this point, leverage with Iran, so he can continue to be inept in dealing with their quest for nuclear arms.

bflat879 on September 8, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Clueless…

Utter FacePalm: UN Ambassador, Samantha Power, Thought That She Could Get Iran To Abandon Assad Because… ‘WMD, Please’

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Happy Friday! tomorrow I’m gonna start checking out pistols. Yea!

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 8:58 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 8:58 PM

Good times.

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Photo gallery: Attack sub Minnesota is commissioned

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130907/NEWS/309070009?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 9:00 PM

will be interpreted in Tehran as a sign that he will not enforce a red line against the production of nuclear weapons by the Iranian government.

ROFLMAO. barky and his idiot junta have already made it perfectly clear to Iran that they will let them get nukes. Barky stopped Israel from doing anything. His cronies have already c hanged the rhetoric from “not allowing Iran to get nukes” to being “able to contain a nuclear Iran”. It’s all BS, anyway. Barky likes what the mullahs are doing to the West.

This is beyond laughable that these butt-lickers are trying to act as if Barky ever even acted as if he was going to stop Iran from doing anything. What a joke. What a sick, sick joke.

In any event, Barky has made it clear from the first day of his usurpation that all problems in the middle east stem from one thing – Israel building apartments in the suburbs of Jerusalem. Barky spent the first two years harping on nothing but that. Iran … he just wanted to have tea with them the same way Pelousi and the criminal Congress critters went to have tea with the chinless assad, who they came back calling “a real reformer” and an overall great guy!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 8, 2013 at 9:01 PM

Happy Friday! tomorrow I’m gonna start checking out pistols. Yea!
annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 8:58 PM

Greetings time traveller. Pray tell, is the past truly unalterable?

nobar on September 8, 2013 at 9:01 PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-reports-of-napalmlike-bomb-attack-on-aleppo-playground-emerge-after-mps-vote-against-military-action-8790841.html

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Make sense to you? A jet flies, looking for a target, and when a government decides not to go to war, it deliberately attacks a school with chemicals?

Is it all right to suspect someone behind the curtain yet?

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM

American foreign policy will be in the hands of a president whose promises will ring consistently hollow, and whose ability to make good on his strategic commitments will be very much in doubt.

Well that is what happens when Presidents run around thinking they are Kings while the co-equal branches of government are his rubber stamp and the public are his subjects. It not his country. He’s our servant, not our king.

Obama has no respect for the country or any of the people in it.

The country will get along just fine after a no vote on his personal vendetta against Assad if he learns not to make promises he can’t keep and keep the commitments already made.

Dusty on September 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 9:00 PM

Ah, a name that strikes fear throughout the seas galaxy.

The Battleship Minnesota was an awesome machine.

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM

Happy Friday! tomorrow I’m gonna start checking out pistols. Yea!

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 8:58 PM

Did you get enough suggestions the other night?

dentarthurdent on September 8, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Holy Cow, Victor Davis Hanson, reams Obama.

Cindy Munford on September 8, 2013 at 9:04 PM

It not his country. He’s our servant, not our king. And, it’s NOT his military!’

Dusty on September 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM

Just adding.

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 9:06 PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-reports-of-napalmlike-bomb-attack-on-aleppo-playground-emerge-after-mps-vote-against-military-action-8790841.html

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Make sense to you? A jet flies, looking for a target, and when a government decides not to go to war, it deliberately attacks a school with chemicals?

Is it all right to suspect someone behind the curtain yet?

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM

Hottest place in hell.

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 9:07 PM

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Husband’s supportive. No point in having a CHL if your current firearm imprints too much to carry.*Unless thick clothing is worn.*

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:07 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:07 PM

How many people told you, what almost a year ago, that you would be shopping for an auto-loader?

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Did you get enough suggestions the other night?

dentarthurdent on September 8, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Yep. I also just mentioned it on my FB Wall.

a Ruger LCP centerfire and and Tiger LCP have been suggested so far…and my ex-husband doesn’t think that I need another gun.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:09 PM

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:09 PM

*Sticks fingers in ears*
I can’t hear youuuuu!

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:10 PM

a Ruger LCP centerfire and and Tiger LCP have been suggested so far…and my ex-husband doesn’t think that I need another gun.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Gee, just ignore my advice. I’ll remember that. IIRC, neither of those support lefty’s.

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:11 PM

and my ex-husband doesn’t think that I need another gun.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Then maybe you do.

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 9:12 PM

Husband’s supportive. No point in having a CHL if your current firearm imprints too much to carry.*Unless thick clothing is worn.*

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Lots of choices.
But another important piece is the holster. If you haven’t already, check out the Remora holsters – thin, no strap or clip – rubber material on the outside holds it in place – and it does hold very well. I use them inside back waistband for a Glock subcompact 9mm and S&W Model 60 revolver and you can’t see anything with a simple t-shirt hanging over it.

dentarthurdent on September 8, 2013 at 9:12 PM

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/09/08/no-joke-susan-rice-will-brief-congress-on-reasons-to-attack-syria-on-anniversary-of-benghazi/

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 8:42 PM

Five bucks says she starts to blame it on a video, just from force of habit.

bofh on September 8, 2013 at 9:12 PM

It is to President Obama’s great discredit that he has staked this credibility on a vote whose outcome he failed to game out in advance.

He probably assumed he didn’t need to. After all, with the exception of his gun-control plan, which garnered them considerable heat from their constituents, this Congress has given him everything he wants for five years, almost without him even having to ask.

But if he loses that vote, the national interest as well as his political interests will take a tangible hit: for the next three years, American foreign policy will be in the hands of a president whose promises will ring consistently hollow, and whose ability to make good on his strategic commitments will be very much in doubt.

Or IOW, the U.S. news media will finally notice what every other head of state on Earth has known since he took office; that this is a dogmatic, ideologically-driven fantasist whose actual skills rarely rise above the amateurish. Except perhaps on the golf links.

This is not an argument that justifies voting for a wicked or a reckless war, and members of Congress who see the Syria intervention in that light must necessarily oppose it.

The progressives in both caucuses won’t let that little detail stop them, I assure you.

But if they do, they should be prepared for the consequences: a damaged president, a potentially crippled foreign policy and a long, hard, dangerous road to January 2017.

We’ve had that for five years. Your point? At some point things in foreign affairs cannot practically get more dangerous- at least not until the missiles start flying, and I’m not talking about Sidewinders and AMRAAMs.

After all the arguments are exhausted, aides said, it will come down to a personal pitch: the president needs you to save him from a debilitating public defeat…

There’s an old saying; If a man goes out on a limb, and tries to saw it off, you’re not required to go out on the end of it with him.

The advocates will carry a simple message, according to a person involved in the effort: Syria is a proxy for Iran, and the failure to enforce Mr. Obama’s “red line” against the use of chemical weapons by Mr. Assad will be interpreted in Tehran as a sign that he will not enforce a red line against the production of nuclear weapons by the Iranian government.

They’ve already determined that The One will do precisely nothing to stop that. The worst they can expect from Him is a testy letter-after they’ve nuked Tel Aviv. Somehow, I do not think they will be deterred by that terrible prospect.

Hadley and Edelman urged House members to view the Syria issue in a broad context, in particular through the prism of Iran and America’s goal of extracting a negotiated settlement from President Rouhani and the mullahs. “In the Middle East, all issues are linked to each other,” they told the group. They encouraged a consideration of the Syria problem in light of the prospect of Iran armed with a nuclear weapon and, even absent that, as a nation seeking hegemony in the Gulf.

Their argument: If you hope to have a negotiated settlement with Iran, they only way you are going to get there is if the Iranians actually believe the use of force lies behind America’s efforts to negotiate. Hamstringing the president’s effort to use force against Syria now will “absolutely cripple and destroy” the chance to reach a diplomatic settlement with Iran.

Actually, the only course to such a “negotiated settlement” is for the mullahs to stop believing in Twelveism. Since they operate on an eschatological worldview which ends with the Triumph of Islam and the Twelfth Imam coming out of a well to lead them to it, after they’ve nuked pretty much everyone they don’t like, it’s difficult to see how any “negotiation” can take place. Unless, of course, everyone else just surrenders now in the hope that they might settle for just killing, say, half of us.

At some point our “best and brightest” should consider the possibility that our enemies really, truly believe what they keep claiming they believe.

There are two definitions of “rhetoric”. Just because our leaders use the “we say it but don’t necessarily mean it” definition, they apparently do not understand that the other side uses the much older “words intended to convey definite meaning” version. After all, as P.J. O’Rourke has observed, this is a part of the world where everybody acts like a character out of the Iliad.

Except that from all indications, it is not an “act”.

clear ether

eon

eon on September 8, 2013 at 9:12 PM

[Axe on September 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM]

Hooray for Pallywood?

Dusty on September 8, 2013 at 9:14 PM

But if he loses that vote, the national interest as well as his political interests will take a tangible hit

That is a lie told by a demagogue to idiots.

VorDaj on September 8, 2013 at 9:14 PM

a Ruger LCP centerfire and and Tiger LCP have been suggested so far…and my ex-husband doesn’t think that I need another gun.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:09 PM

As I mentioned before, my wife has an LCP for CCW. Just keep in mind it’s very “snappy”. I’ve also noticed the slide is fairly hard to pull for only a .380, the slide release button is hard, and it has a lonnnnnggg trigger pull. My wife is still trying to get control of her “Elsie girl”….

dentarthurdent on September 8, 2013 at 9:16 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 8, 2013 at 9:01 PM

the whole Iran thing is so bogus. The liberal wing of the foreign policy establish concluded some time ago that Iran could be contained if it ever got nukes…so not to worry.

Our current situation is brought to us by R2P and the big lobbying fomr the Arabs and AIPAC. The fig leaf of Iran is just a desperate attempt to make a plausible story out of the fevered swamp of DC political hacks.

That some R strategists are talking up Iran is very damning, imo. They don’t see the big picture. Iran will always do what is in Iran’s interest. I honestly don’t think they’ve been frightened of the US for a while.

barry will not be attacking Iran anytime soon…and if you went into negotiations saying to Iran that if you don’t do this barry will attack…well, there would be laughter

r keller on September 8, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Holy Cow, Victor Davis Hanson, reams Obama.

Cindy Munford on September 8, 2013 at 9:04 PM

I like the way in the article you linked he sideswipes Hillary with apparently casualness, but leaves her bloody: “Hillary Clinton whose ‘what difference does it make?’ fingerprints are all over the Syrian and Libyan fiascos wisely got out of town ahead of the posse.”

Increasingly, Obama’s becoming an early lame duck. The one who’s dangerous (to America’s future) is Hillary.

Burke on September 8, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Just caught a short segment of Fox, at dinner.

LTG Jerry Boykin gave his assessment of Syria.

He is dead set against it.

Boykin has earned his cred.

And was widely respected in the intel community. Still is in many circles.

He has been pilloried for his being an open and proud practicing Christaian. He never went anywhere wiitout a pocket Bible.

I trust the man. Admire him. Would drop whatever I was doing to follow him anywhere,praying all the time that I did not screw up or otherwise disappoint the man.

Above all I respect his judgement.

But, after listening to General Boykin, I am now looking at something I never thought I’d ever have to see in this country.

Our military in its history going back to the Continental Congress has been under civilian control.

A commissioned officer can refuse to follow an unlawful order. That takes courage. A lot for a butter bar. A lot lot more for a field grade.

But what of a major or theater commander?

At what point can they say “No, Sir, Mr. President, I will not do that?”

The Chairman of the JCS can, may, ought to…in his position as the primary military adviser to the President.

But the rest of the general and flag officer corps?

At what point, under what pressure, what lit fuse, will they have to make that decision that love of country means violating everything their oath stands for?

The moment we have a “revolt” in our most senior officer ranks…what then?

Such would not be the political show of the 1949 Admirals Revolt over the Strategic Air Command and Air Force dominance of our nuclear forces versus the Navy being told you can’t have strategic aircraft, nor scads of super carriers. That was over budgets and overall re-alignment of US Forces.

But, today, if General Dempsey resigns, should he develop the cajones to do so…and other senior officers do likewise…we face a serious crisis…one that will not be easy to walk back.

or do they salute smartly and do whatever they are told to do no matter the outcome?

I am rambling, I know.

But a lot of nagging questions in the past two weeks (if not a lot longer) have been bugging the hell out of me.

Two years ago, Obama had an open window to actually do something right out in Syria, without boots on the ground nor flotillas offshore of Tartus.

That window was open for but a few short months.

We may be paying for his willful ignorance in very short order.

And all those championing that we have the bestest armed forces ever and we can wipe our butts with Assad any day, any time…well…they aren’t helping things at all. And a lot of those undecided votes in the House and Senate are undecided not because they believe Obama to be wrong…but, they, as my congressional rep, they believe we are not going to do enough.

If we had clear cut intelligence from recruited vetted tested sources showing that Assad ordered those gas attacks…well that’d change the equation a bit, but not the end result.

Two years wasted…over 120,000 Syrians dead, killed by Assad and by the “rebels.”

What happens to Syria is in Syria’s hands.

Not ours.

Not any more.

We do not meddle in the internal affairs of other nations, our President said, before Neda Agha-Soltan was even put in the ground after her murder in Teheran, and the last best possibility for removing the mullahs in Iran by Iranians died with her.

Whatever we do in Syria, surgical punitive strikes on select military targets or going in like gangbusters, or if we back off, tails between our legs…we are going to be paying for this one for decades to come.

I pray we are not forced to pay for it with more American lives.

Got to get this house ready for my son’s long awaited return home.

G’night.

coldwarrior on September 8, 2013 at 9:17 PM

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:11 PM

One of the receiving managers LOVES his Walther PK380.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:18 PM

The ‘R-Word’ Clusterfark…

WashPost Columnist So Anti-’Redskins’ That He’s Accused of Anti-Black ‘Minstrelsy Times Two’

Washington Post sports columnist is so aggressive in opposing the “Redskins” name that he’s being accused by commenters of being racist toward a black man who plays “Chief Zee” at Redskins games.

At TheRoot.com – a Washington Post-owned website – Richard Prince noted that the Indian Country Today Media Network reported that readers felt that “Wise’s story is rife with remarks that could be taken as playing on stereotypes of black Americans.” Such as…

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 9:18 PM

I’m a no vote on an LCP for the very reasons dentarthurdent said. I got one for my mom a few years ago, and it was a poor choice. Very snappy to shoot, nearly impossible for her to slide the rack back, and the trigger is pretty poor.

Murphy9 on September 8, 2013 at 9:18 PM

Obama Copies Animal House’s Greatest Speech

“But you can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few sick, perverted individuals. If you do, shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our education institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg. Isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you want to us, but we won’t sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!” – Animal House, 1978

VorDaj on September 8, 2013 at 9:18 PM

Got to get this house ready for my son’s long awaited return home.

G’night.

coldwarrior on September 8, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Enjoy your son’s homecoming!

Murphy9 on September 8, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Tomorrow’s news today:

Monday, September 9th | 5 Tishri 5774

UK Royal Air Force Typhoon fighter Jets chased away two warplanes believed to be Syrian flying towards Britain’s Akrotiri base in Cyprus.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/09/08/report-uk-royal-air-force-jets-chase-away-syrian-warplanes-approaching-cyprus/

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 9:19 PM

dentarthurdent on September 8, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Other than the things mentioned, how does she like the little Ruger?

Does she have trouble with the second shot?

I’ve tried many of the really small .380′s. Have yet to find one satisfactory.

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:20 PM

One of the receiving managers LOVES his Walther PK380.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:18 PM

My brother bought one a few months ago. He likes it.

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 9:20 PM

Just adding.

[Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 9:06 PM]

Rightfully so. Thanks.

Dusty on September 8, 2013 at 9:21 PM

Burke on September 8, 2013 at 9:17 PM

I was astounded when The Won picked Chuck Hagel as Secretary of Defense, he always struck me as a dim bulb and I’m glad to see my assessment backed up. Not only are he and his cabinet unfit but they appear to have no desire to learn anything.

Cindy Munford on September 8, 2013 at 9:21 PM

One of the receiving managers LOVES his Walther PK380.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:18 PM

And so do I. Until Colt brings back the .380 Government Model…

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:21 PM

Got to get this house ready for my son’s long awaited return home.

G’night.

coldwarrior on September 8, 2013 at 9:17 PM

That sounds exciting!!!!

Cindy Munford on September 8, 2013 at 9:22 PM

Attack by racist black man leaves white man brain dead:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/09/06/nypd-man-brain-dead-following-random-rampage-in-union-square/

Not a peep out of HotAir.

bluegill on September 8, 2013 at 9:24 PM

And so do I. Until Colt brings back the .380 Government Model…

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:21 PM

That’s what I’ll be looking at first.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:24 PM

He [LTG Boykin] has been pilloried for his being an open and proud practicing Christaian. He never went anywhere without a pocket Bible.

coldwarrior on September 8, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Ord Wingate always carried his Bible with him. Not bad company, there.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 8, 2013 at 9:25 PM

I’ve been physically sick this last week over this insanity.

Happy Nomad on September 8, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Thank you for your service, sir! I know the feeling …

At this point, anything that puts a dagger through the heart of this rouge presidency should be welcomed.

turfmann on September 8, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Never thought I’d say this, but at this point I think I might welcome a military coup if the right people were leading it and their plan was to restore the long-ago abandoned Constitutional Republic.

ShainS on September 8, 2013 at 9:25 PM

UK Royal Air Force Typhoon fighter Jets chased away two warplanes believed to be Syrian flying towards Britain’s Akrotiri base in Cyprus.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/09/08/report-uk-royal-air-force-jets-chase-away-syrian-warplanes-approaching-cyprus/

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 9:19 PM

. . . all right.

Hypothetical. Why would Syria try to force a war with the “Western Powers”? Assume they are. Just floating it.

It’s either that or lots and lots of deliberately misleading narrative.

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Your post is the main point of all this. The FSA is now mostly comprised of Al
Nusra and Al Qaeda affiliated. I cannot believe we will ever agree to support those radical Islamists. We need to drive that point home and convince others.

smoothsailing on September 8, 2013 at 9:28 PM

Holy Cow, Victor Davis Hanson, reams Obama.

Cindy Munford on September 8, 2013 at 9:04 PM

…he’s not gentle on JugEars…that’s for sure!
.
.
.
.

Got to get this house ready for my son’s long awaited return home.

G’night.

coldwarrior on September 8, 2013 at 9:17 PM

…enjoy colodwarrior !

KOOLAID2 on September 8, 2013 at 9:29 PM

That’s what I’ll be looking at first.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 8, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Then why didn’t you say so?

Other than to be annoying

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:29 PM

I’m a no vote on an LCP for the very reasons dentarthurdent said. I got one for my mom a few years ago, and it was a poor choice. Very snappy to shoot, nearly impossible for her to slide the rack back, and the trigger is pretty poor.

Murphy9 on September 8, 2013 at 9:18 PM

I agree with both of you. I HATE the LCP. Hate, hate, HATE!! Worst trigger in the world, I would say. And far too snappy for just a .380.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 8, 2013 at 9:31 PM

cozmo on September 8, 2013 at 9:20 PM

She is trying very hard to like it – but she really doesn’t – it’s very difficult.
My wife has all Rugers – besides the LCP – an SR22 (which isn’t too bad, but tends to jam on her for some reason, but not me), Bearcat (.22LR single action revolver – which she loves), and now a 10-22 rifle (in purple, but hasn’t shot yet – but she loves shooting my Marlin .22).
We’ve heard from a few people the Bersa is supposed to be a really nice .380 – bigger than the LCP, but still CCW size and easier to handle.

dentarthurdent on September 8, 2013 at 9:31 PM

I say this in all seriousness. Do you suppose that the thin-skinned rat has even thought beyond what tie looks most presidential for Tuesday’s speech?

I’m a twenty-year plus Surface Warfare Officer in the United States Navy. I’m a graduate of both the Naval War College and Air War College. I’ve never seen a situation this screwed up. Or a stupid group of partisans determined that the United States bomb Syria….. just because.

I’ve been physically sick this last week over this insanity. And I worry for the well-being of our sailors who will be harmed by the actions demanded by the rat-eared bastard and his minions.

Happy Nomad on September 8, 2013 at 8:13 PM

No question that he’s thinking ties. I’m sure he would prefer pink or yellow or perhaps green, but it will be a pale blue tie with navy blue overlays, against a white shirt and navy blue suit. A red tie, of course, is out of the question as it would conjure up blood or a bellicose image, not to mention be a reminder of “red lines.” They’re probably in the war room debating the matter at this very moment.

As far as the sailors go and indeed all who will be put in harm’s way over this ego masturbation maneuver on his part, well, their “his” sailors and soldiers in the first place, not ours. And, WTH, they volunteered to be placed in harm’s way, so why not? It’s not like they were drafted and a bunch of them were minorities or anything, forced to do the bidding for “da Man”.

Seriously, this bastard is far over his head and his head so far up his ass, that I’m not sure the Jaws of Life could save him.

TXUS on September 8, 2013 at 9:32 PM

bluegill on September 8, 2013 at 9:24 PM

I don’t think they are going to discuss crimes unless the President decides to weigh in on them and make them political. After a brief visit to New York City’s Port Authority, I believe incidents like this have been happening for a long long time. What is it with bus stations and crazy people?

Cindy Munford on September 8, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Axe on September 8, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Seconded. Why would Syria threaten British assets after Parliament refused to give the PM authority to attack (unlike the US, the PM doesn’t need Parliament’s assent)?

Assad was educated in the UK. He practised medicine in the UK. He knows the British people. If he’s already sort of won in Parliament and the vast majority of Brits do NOT want anything to do with Syria’s civil war, why take the risk of reversing that? The fastest, most effective way to reverse all of that would be to threaten or attack British military assets.

Resist We Much on September 8, 2013 at 9:32 PM

TXUS on September 8, 2013 at 9:32 PM

He’ll wear a red tie and that will be his big concession to the Right in hopes of getting their yes vote. And it will probably work.

Cindy Munford on September 8, 2013 at 9:34 PM

UK Royal Air Force Typhoon fighter Jets chased away two warplanes believed to be Syrian flying towards Britain’s Akrotiri base in Cyprus.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/09/08/report-uk-royal-air-force-jets-chase-away-syrian-warplanes-approaching-cyprus/

davidk on September 8, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Probing action. Smart. Expect more.

slickwillie2001 on September 8, 2013 at 9:35 PM

I agree with both of you. I HATE the LCP. Hate, hate, HATE!! Worst trigger in the world, I would say. And far too snappy for just a .380.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 8, 2013 at 9:31 PM

I will say the grip extensions we bought to put on the mag help in holding it better with all fingers. However, that doesn’t do anything for the hard slide pull and long trigger pull. My wife tends to push down through the long trigger – and often ends up hitting the dirt in front of the target. However, by the end of the day on our last range visit, she was at least hitting the target (at about 10 yards).

dentarthurdent on September 8, 2013 at 9:35 PM

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