The credibility crisis can’t be solved with Tomahawk missiles

posted at 12:01 pm on September 5, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The Obama administration has stumbled from one credibility crisis to the next on Syria, and now wants Congress to rescue Barack Obama from himself.  Obama declares that the stated policy of the United States toward Syria is regime change, then dithers on how to effect it.  Obama draws a red line, and then does nothing at all to prepare for the possibility that Bashar al-Assad might call his bluff.

This credibility crisis goes beyond Syria, however, and extends to the whole Arab Spring, for which Obama seemed all too pleased to take credit not terribly long ago.  He demanded Hosni Mubarak’s ouster and quick elections in Egypt, which turned a stable American ally into a barely-contained disaster, and then has vacillated ever since on how to handle the crisis.  Obama then led a NATO intervention in Libya while claiming not to want regime change, but ended up decapitating the Qaddafi regime anyway.  That replaced a brutal dictatorship that was still cooperating with the West on counter-terrorism into a failed state that has allowed for a rapid expansion of radical Islamist terror networks through the whole region.

Now Obama wants to apply the Libya model to Syria, but cannot articulate a single American interest in launching a war.  Syria has not attacked American interests or allies, nor is likely to do so.  The most effective elements of the opposition in Syria are comprised of the very terrorist networks that we are presently fighting ourselves.  Obama even backed away from his own red line, claiming that “the world” set it in its opposition to chemical weapons, but as I note in my column for The Fiscal Times today, there is no global “red line” for military intervention as Obama claims:

The idea that the “world” has set a red line requiring military intervention after the use of chemical weapons is rather strange, and has no historical precedent.  Chemical weapons have had a number of deployments since the 1925 Geneva Protocol (affirmed unanimously by the UN General Assembly in 1966) that first banned their use without any such response.

Iraq used chemical weapons in two 1987 attacks during their eight-year war against Iran without any outside intervention. Libya used chemical weapons against Chad in the same year, again with no outside intervention.  Most infamously, Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons as a means of genocide against the Kurds in Halabja in 1988, killing more than 5,000 non-combatants, without any international military response (although it was one of the many justifications used by the US and UN in 1991 for Operation Desert Storm and in 2003’s second invasion of Iraq).  One can certainly argue that all of these incidents called for American or global intervention, but not that the world laid down a red line for armed response to their use.

There are no global “red lines” for military intervention in this case, even with the United Nations, which is balking at military strikes in Syria.  That wouldn’t matter if vital national security issues were at stake in Syria, but they’re not, and the Obama administration isn’t even bothering to pretend there are.  The only substantial argument is the danger to American credibility for not following through on a red-line threat, and that danger is not insubstantial.  However, that’s not really the danger to American credibility, which is why missile strikes won’t solve the problem:

Finally, we come to the argument that Obama’s red line requires us to salvage his credibility, or risk rogue nations like Iran assuming that the US is nothing but a paper tiger. This is really the only argument that makes any sense at all; there is little doubt that damage to our credibility, especially in that region, is dangerous and could cost lives.  However, that argument requires us to conduct acts of war literally for the sake of conducting acts of war, while announcing that we don’t intend to actually change the conditions in Syria as a result.

That’s not an argument that will restore American credibility, especially since our stated policy toward Syria is that of regime change. If we lob bombs into Damascus and claim that we aren’t trying to change the regime, not only will no one take that seriously, Assad’s potential survival would compound the problem that Obama seeks to cure through military action now.

The root of Obama’s credibility problem cannot be solved by cruise missiles. Obama offered a boast a year ago with his red-line statement, and then clearly did nothing in the following year to set the stage for an international response to Assad for crossing it. As this week has proven, Obama didn’t even bother to engage Congress until it became clear that voters overwhelmingly oppose his rush to military action. Isolated on the international stage and under political fire at home, Obama now won’t even claim ownership of his own red line.

The likeliest outcome of sustained American strikes on Assad’s regime is that the field will tilt to the benefit of the radical Islamists on the ground in Syria, just as it has in Libya.  That is the bottom line, and that is why Congress should refuse to authorize a war against Syria.

As for our credibility issues, those will be with us as long as President Obama remains in office.  The 22nd Amendment already provides the resolution to that problem, and voters will have to take responsibility for restoring American credibility and foreign-policy wisdom in November 2016.

 


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No blood for ego!

NotCoach on September 5, 2013 at 12:02 PM

The democrats and the world stuck us with this jellyfish of a president.

Blake on September 5, 2013 at 12:06 PM

The likeliest outcome of sustained American strikes on Assad’s regime is that the field will tilt to the benefit of the radical Islamists on the ground in Syria, just as it has in Libya.

But isn’t that Barry’s goal in all this? He’s rather enamored with at least one radical islamist faction isn’t he?

hawkeye54 on September 5, 2013 at 12:07 PM

We are not ‘using missiles to recover credibility’, we are discussing killing hundreds of people because President Prissypants feels that he has been ‘dissed’ in the international community.

He wants respect damnit, and he’s going to kill a lot of people until he gets respect. R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

slickwillie2001 on September 5, 2013 at 12:07 PM

President Peeping Tomahawk has all the credibility he needs in his own mind.

Flange on September 5, 2013 at 12:08 PM

The Obama administration has stumbled from one credibility crisis to the next on Syria, and now wants Congress to rescue Barack Obama from himself.

The Obama administration has stumbled from one credibility crisis after another period…Foreign and Domestic.

Most conservatives have aged ten years since 2008….I know my hair is a lot whiter since then.

Large scale policy debacles,corruption at the highest levels of government and constant economic stress can do that…

workingclass artist on September 5, 2013 at 12:08 PM

The credibility crisis can’t be solved with Tomahawk missiles evah

ShainS on September 5, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Excellent post Ed. Excellent!

Vince on September 5, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Perfect picture Ed!!!

Infant Innocence by A.E. Housman, modified for today:

“The grizzly Russian bear is huge and wild,
He has devoured the infant child,
The infant child is not aware
It has been eaten by the bear.”

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Putin and obama are thugs of the world.

Putin is respected.

This is a true story. The two were at a gathering a while ago and the gym had only so many machines. Putin got there when obama had already taken the last one.

Putin to the media “follow me”. He went into icy cold water, with ice all around, swimming, cameras all on him…

Imagine this of weasely eunuch obama…never…the bully Putin beats him every time, then asks for obama to pay for lunch.

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Putin will eat obama for lunch, on his own turf, better than Versaille.

Even the historical classy site will irritate the Punk.

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Yeah, but….its the right thing to do.

All he has left in his quiver to support a strike is a letter from Julia, who feels sorry for the kids in Syria and thinks Mr. Obama should do something, and included $0.37 to help pay for the bombs.

BobMbx on September 5, 2013 at 12:16 PM

No one has the huevos to say 0bama finally fluked effed screwed himself messed up.

Though he did it to the rest of us too.

cozmo on September 5, 2013 at 12:16 PM

The only substantial argument is the danger to American credibility for not following through on a red-line threat, and that danger is not insubstantial.

Then there is one solution to that dilemma that does not involve going to war.

Barack Obama could step down from the office of the Presidency, and let Joe Biden start to make policy…

JohnGalt23 on September 5, 2013 at 12:17 PM

Tomahawk–I thought they were loading them with unicorns, Skittles and lollipops only to be launched at the next rainbow sighting..it sounds serious now.

hillsoftx on September 5, 2013 at 12:17 PM

The likeliest outcome of sustained American strikes on Assad’s regime is that the field will tilt to the benefit of the radical Islamists on the ground in Syria, just as it has in Libya.

Which not only got us nowhere in Libya but cost 4 American lives in Benghazi. How many lives will we lose securing chemical weapons when Assad falls? Or are we going to trust the rebels to secure these weapons? Rebels who have already been credibly accused of using such weapons themselves.

If they authorize force they should also demand Obama hit any Syrian rebel bases known to harbor Al Qaeda. The death of radical Islamists are at least as important, if not more, than the use of chemical weapons to the security of the US.

Rocks on September 5, 2013 at 12:17 PM

HA had linked this yesterday, but it’s worth repeating. It says it all.

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:17 PM

Well, Tomahawks could solve the problem.

It is all in the targeting.

And the timing.

33.90N 77.04W…close enough for government work.

Early this coming week?

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Refuse to authorize a war against Syria!!!

Don’t back down, don’t authorize, defund it, just STOP IT DEAD!!

Scrumpy on September 5, 2013 at 12:19 PM

It’s racist against American Indians to say/write TOMAHAWK cruise missiles.

sentinelrules on September 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM

Obama even backed away from his own red line, claiming that “the world” set it in its opposition to chemical weapons,

Backed away? He lied his ass off! I’m sick of these niceties toward a truly vile disgusting creature. He doesn’t deserve civility.

It sickens me that we are even contemplating military action to be waged for no other reason than this whole “credibilty” claim. Do Syrians (and possibly US sailors) really have to die because of the comments made by a stupid lazy American President? Are Americans really supposed to stand by and watch innocent people die for Obama?

There should be protest marches in every major city. Congressmen in favor of bombing Syria should be primaried out of office. We all should be outraged that there is even the possiblity that our military will be hijacked and forced to commit murder for the “credibility” of a worthless anti-American commie. Eff being nice when speaking about Obama. He has blood on his hands.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:24 PM

The likeliest outcome of sustained American strikes on Assad’s regime is that the field will tilt to the benefit of the radical Wahabbi Islamists on the ground in Syria, just as it has in Libya.

ReWrite™ engaged for clarity. After all, Hezbollah isn’t exactly “moderate”.

Steve Eggleston on September 5, 2013 at 12:25 PM

I was reminded of this by SDA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCsNunGnqE0

We should get a rodeo clown, with an obama face mask, to record this for republican political commercials. Put it out everywhere. This is one of the best ways to shut up the libruls.

Old Country Boy on September 5, 2013 at 12:26 PM

As I’ve said elsewhere, the best way to gain credibility would be to shut up or to actually formulate a foreign policy that can be stated.

Obama is incapable of either.

Thus the credibility loss will continue.

ajacksonian on September 5, 2013 at 12:26 PM

If we lob bombs into Damascus and claim that we aren’t trying to change the regime, not only will no one take that seriously, Assad’s potential survival would compound the problem that Obama seeks to cure through military action now.

Obama’s Do-Little Raiders

ted c on September 5, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Let Operation “Ruffled Feathers” commence!

PackerBronco on September 5, 2013 at 12:27 PM

The likeliest outcome of sustained American strikes on Assad’s regime is that the field will tilt to the benefit of the radical Islamists on the ground in Syria, just as it has in Libya.

But isn’t that Barry’s goal in all this? He’s rather enamored with at least one radical islamist faction isn’t he?

hawkeye54 on September 5, 2013 at 12:07 PM

Yes and yes. I see all these stories saying Obama misspoke and is protecting his ego. But the simplest explanation is usually ignored. He wants chaos, he wants to topple dictators, he wants Islamist democracy: one vote, one time. I know, I know, I’m headed off into nutter conspiracy theory land. But it’s either that, or Obama is an utter moron.

Fenris on September 5, 2013 at 12:28 PM

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Heh. You beat me to it. I was trying to figure out how to say it.

Good job!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 5, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Firing $2 million dollar cruise and stand-off missiles into $5 tents in a ‘symbolic’, ‘not decisive’, ‘shot across their bows’ in order to defend a red line declared by the President before he denied declaring it, after it had been crossed at least half a dozen times, will not do anything to restore the credibility of either Barack Obama, his National Security / Foreign Policy team, or that of the United States.

We are, unfortunately, tied to this stuttering clusterfark until January 20, 2017.

Our friends know he has no credibility, cannot be trusted, is a pathological narcissistic liar, and is feckless and weak.

Our allies know he has no credibility, cannot be trusted, is a pathological narcissistic liar, and is feckless and weak.

Our enemies know he has no credibility, cannot be trusted, is a pathological narcissistic liar, and is feckless and weak.

Unless Barack Obama can really under some ‘fundamental change’ of his personality, hubris, ego, and character – there is nothing that he can do to regain any credibility for himself or his Administration.

Reality is reality – and all but the most ideological sycophants can see through his hype / campaign fluff. He is rapidly becoming as much of a disaster re foreign policy as he has been re domestic policy.

Credibility is what the next President / Administration has to focus on restoring when they come into office.

Athos on September 5, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Obama draws a red line, and then does nothing at all to prepare for the possibility that Bashar al-Assad might call his bluff.

To be fair, the line was actually magenta.

Deafdog on September 5, 2013 at 12:29 PM

One major thing “conservative” media does wrong, is in every single article about Obama you need to include one of the MANY, MANY scandals that has been “forgotten” because of this FUBAR Syrian war-mongering of Obama’s and the Democrat Party.

Tie in the horrible things he does not with the past scandals. Learn from the propaganda techniques of the corrupt media.

GardenGnome on September 5, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Operation obamaEgoFark

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Since Obama’s going to order the strikes anyway — after all, it’s all about him and his red-lined ego — the Congress should emphatically say “Hell no!”. Then, he will own whatever results, and it’s going to be a much bigger mess than Lybia, and if Iran retaliates by striking Israel, all hell will break loose. So, let him and the Dems own the whole damn thing.

TXUS on September 5, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Let Operation “Ruffled Feathers” commence!

PackerBronco on September 5, 2013 at 12:27 PM

what better weapon than a “tomahawk” to solve it!

ted c on September 5, 2013 at 12:30 PM

“Dissent is patriotic”, never forget!

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:30 PM

33.90N 77.04W…close enough for government work.

Early this coming week?

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:18 PM

LOL — I was guessing George Zimmerman’s house …

ShainS on September 5, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Since Obama’s going to order the strikes anyway — after all, it’s all about him and his red-lined ego — the Congress should emphatically say “Hell no!”. Then, he will own whatever results, and it’s going to be a much bigger mess than Lybia, and if Iran retaliates by striking Israel, all hell will break loose. So, let him and the Dems own the whole damn thing.

TXUS on September 5, 2013 at 12:29 PM

I somehow think all Hell breaking loose is not exactly a bug to most of Team SCOAMT.

Steve Eggleston on September 5, 2013 at 12:31 PM

The War of O’s Credibility? This might even be stupider than the War of Jenkins’s Ear

jayhawkingeorgia on September 5, 2013 at 12:31 PM

The credibility crisis can’t be solved with Tomahawk missiles

Sure it can, just have to point at the proper target!

questionmark on September 5, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Well, Tomahawks could solve the problem.

It is all in the targeting.

And the timing.

33.90N 77.04W…close enough for government work.

Early this coming week?

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:18 PM

I think you meant 38.9N /pedantry mode off

Fenris on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Obama is like the smallest kid on a Pee Wee team thinking he can play with the big boys because he once got a base hit. He must never have learned it’s a bad idea to believe your own hype.

Liam on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

All he has left in his quiver to support a strike is a letter from Julia, who feels sorry for the kids in Syria and thinks Mr. Obama should do something, and included $0.37 to help pay for the bombs.

BobMbx on September 5, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Julia’s daughter joined the Navy is currently on the USS San Antonio sitting off the coast of Syria. When the missiles started flying, it turned out that Assad’s AAW capability was more robust than expected. Julia actually got to meet Obama in person. At Dover AFB over the flag-draped casket of her dead daughter. Julia lost her only child but Obama’s credibilty ticked up or something.

Sorry to be such a downer but the reality of going to war because somebody called out Obama on his trash-talking threats is more than wrong. It is immoral. I don’t want that fact to get lost in the noise as the administration trys to spin this as an obligation and show of American leadership because it is neither.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Obama is like the smallest kid on a Pee Wee team

Liam on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

A really vulgar kid.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM

Yes.

petunia on September 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Crap. Arithmetic are hard.

38-53′ 50.57N

77-02′ 14.58W.

Oh, well…Промах есть промах.

And we can’t have that.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:18 PM

You said it first and said it better. Gotta read those comments thoroughly before posting. #head/desk!

questionmark on September 5, 2013 at 12:36 PM

I’ve got the answer….

Tie the strikes to the approval of the Keystone pipeline.

BobMbx on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

And…. McCain is still thinking this is last year and we should be helping the rebels… but that is expressly what the Democrats are saying we are not going to do?

McCain has lost his mind.

petunia on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

Sums it up nicely Ed…too bad this view does not reign throughout Congress…

PatriotRider on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

I’ve got the answer….

Tie the strikes to the approval of the Keystone pipeline.

BobMbx on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

And fracking.

petunia on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM

You said “close enough for government work” which gave you all the leeway necessary :)

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on September 5, 2013 at 12:38 PM

“In Marton’s anti-gung ho genre film, the idea — unpretentiously handled — is war turns men not into killing machines but simply into men who kill”

From the irony department—The Original Thin Red Line (1964)

Rovin on September 5, 2013 at 12:38 PM

“Dissent is patriotic”, never forget!

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:30 PM

You really had to go there?

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:38 PM

If you care about our country, this is a truly vexing issue.

An honest citizen certainly does not want to weaken the office of our president and indeed does not want to see our nation descend in prestige. That not only makes our country more dangerous, but the world.

But what is one to do when a president has personally been so feckless, unwise and skirts the boundaries of mendacity with his statements? When he sends supporters armed with pathos arguments and questionable assessments? When the strategy is amateurishly reactive and formed without a seemingly full understanding of the consequences– not proactive and girded by forethought and an understanding of potential risks? When once again the auspices of our government are used by acolytes who corrupt democratic process and tradition to advance partisan goals? When the basis of this intervention is questionable and the approach resoundingly rejected on all global fronts?

One must wait, assess the situation and ultimately use the wisdom not evident in our so-called leaders as a guide towards sensible action.

I would only caution our enemies to not mistakenly interpret the workings of democratic processes for a lack of resolve or a deferral to their interests or cause. That would be a significant mistake as our concerns do not simply span a four-year term of office. They are as timeless and enduring as our nation itself. Ignore that at your peril.

Marcus Traianus on September 5, 2013 at 12:39 PM

Operation “Save My Ego”…

PatriotRider on September 5, 2013 at 12:39 PM

I think you meant 38.9N /pedantry mode off

Fenris on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Glad you caught that.

Pedantry can be used for good, you know.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:39 PM

The 22nd Amendment already provides the resolution to that problem

Ed, Are you sure you didn’t mean the XXV Amendment.

meci on September 5, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Evil Kenyan Muslim Clown©

Mason on September 5, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Obama even backed away from his own red line, claiming that “the world” set it in its opposition to chemical weapons,
Backed away? He lied his ass off! I’m sick of these niceties toward a truly vile disgusting creature. He doesn’t deserve civility.

It sickens me that we are even contemplating military action to be waged for no other reason than this whole “credibilty” claim. Do Syrians (and possibly US sailors) really have to die because of the comments made by a stupid lazy American President? Are Americans really supposed to stand by and watch innocent people die for Obama?

There should be protest marches in every major city. Congressmen in favor of bombing Syria should be primaried out of office. We all should be outraged that there is even the possiblity that our military will be hijacked and forced to commit murder for the “credibility” of a worthless anti-American commie. Eff being nice when speaking about Obama. He has blood on his hands.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:24 PM

HN, Obama has had blood on his hands since Benghazi and he has piled on since. I lay the deaths of the Coptic Christians in Egypt at his door as well. He is the one who supported the Muslim Brotherhood and they are the ones who are killing the Christians and destroying their churches. It’s not over either. If Obama gets his way the Christians in Syria will be next. Christians are dying left and right and he says nothing. Not only does he say nothing but he goes off for a round of golf. There are so many things I would like to have happen to this worthless AA President but if I wrote them down I’d be banned for life from HA.

neyney on September 5, 2013 at 12:41 PM

I’ve got the answer….

Tie the strikes to the approval of the Keystone pipeline.

BobMbx on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

And fracking.

petunia on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

And the full repeal of PlaceboCare.

Steve Eggleston on September 5, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Crap. Arithmetic are hard.

38-53′ 50.57N

77-02′ 14.58W.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM

Dude….thats like….6 miles from where I am right now.

BobMbx on September 5, 2013 at 12:42 PM

There are no global “red lines” for military intervention in this case, even with the United Nations, which is balking at military strikes in Syria.

Ed is exactly right here. By suggesting that the “world” laid down a red line, Obama is using his favorite rhetorical fallacy–the strawman argument. By concocting that this nefarious agent, The World, drew a red line, and then weakly trying to hammer him for doing so, Obama is trying to escape from the entanglement of his own firm setting of an actual red line.

ted c on September 5, 2013 at 12:43 PM

At a million bucks a pop pickling off TT’s in order for King Putt to save face is an unmitigated disgrace to salvage the Blame Duck President.
The shame of it is that these highly advanced, effective, elegant tactical ordnance are going to be WASTED on some 4th rate ME (read: Syrian) air force assets.
Oh and because of Obowmao’s sequester these precious military assets are not going to be REPLACED.
This Rodeo Clown is getting EVERYTHING … economy in tatters, military downgraded, the Navy wasting missiles, Marines to be cut to below 200,000 … and the Stupid Party is going to give him both a green light and take the blame, whichever way things fall.
And when half a ton of RDX goes BOOM over the target a lot of shiite will fall and be incinerated while it settles.Think about it taxpayers. Their YOUR weapons that YOU paid for and they are going to be used to prop up the Panahou High School bench scrub’s azz.

Missilengr on September 5, 2013 at 12:44 PM

BobMbx on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

petunia on September 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM

Steve Eggleston on September 5, 2013 at 12:42 PM

When you are playing high-stakes, there are times to go all in.

Tie the Syria strikes to Obama’s immediate resignation.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:44 PM

However, that argument requires us to conduct acts of war literally for the sake of conducting acts of war, while announcing that we don’t intend to actually change the conditions in Syria as a result.

Clinton’s rapid pullout of Somalia in the wake of TF Ranger’s no good — very bad day back in 1993 sent the message that our credibility was shot in the region. The effect was that it emboldened Al Qaeda and directly led to further attacks–USS Cole, 9/11.

ted c on September 5, 2013 at 12:47 PM

I somehow think all Hell breaking loose is not exactly a bug to most of Team SCOAMT.

Steve Eggleston on September 5, 2013 at 12:31 PM

No question about it, but when it does, we may end up with super-majorities in both chambers come 2014.

TXUS on September 5, 2013 at 12:47 PM

BobMbx on September 5, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Hunker down, Bob, just hunker down.

Only need one…just one…single TLAM-C.

In your neighborhood? A few windows may break…car alarms may go off…but other than that fairly surgical.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:48 PM

When you are playing high-stakes, there are times to go all in.

Tie the Syria strikes to Obama’s immediate resignation.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:44 PM

That seems a bit too much like a coup to be legal. Even if identifying coups is really really hard.

How about linking the Syria strike to a vote of no confidence in Obama’s ability to lead? Same effect, just takes a few more steps.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Obama and Kerry are proven serial prevaricators. We dare not believe anything they say and following these two losers into war will be the most fatal move ever made by the United States.
If we don’t stand up as one and demand of our congressmen and senators that they vote ‘NO’ on this disaster-in-the-making, then we are all culpable when the nuclear bombs start flying.

maryo on September 5, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Welcome to the Pottery Barn.

The child owns it.

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:50 PM

The effect was that it emboldened Al Qaeda and directly led to further attacks–USS Cole, 9/11.

ted c on September 5, 2013 at 12:47 PM

True but let’s not forget an important fact about the USS Cole bombing. They were in Yemen refueling (instead of refueling at sea) as a “show the flag” event orchestrated by the State Department. Killing innocent Syrians because of Obama’s ego is another one of these photo-op operations with no real purpose.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:54 PM

You really had to go there?

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:38 PM

Perfect!

Schadenfreude on September 5, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Julia’s daughter joined the Navy is currently on the USS San Antonio sitting off the coast of Syria.
Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Speaking of which, since a picture is worth a thousand words, let’s take a gander at the naval standoff that’s developing over there.

RushBaby on September 5, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:50 PM

A President may resign at any time before the end of his term for whatever reason he may cite…or for no reason whatsoever.

Coup?

No. Not at all.

Senate presents the Executive Office with their final combined House-Senate Bill…awaiting Obama’s signature…which includes language addressing the immediate resignation…and tells Obama…we will give you full authorization to bomb, blow up, destroy, maim, kill, exterminate anyone and everyone in Syria of your choosing…just sign here.

Obama signs, resigns…and then Congress pulls 100% of the funding.

Leaving Joe Biden to figure out what to do next.

Politics.

It is who you are having for breakfast.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:57 PM

By suggesting that the “world” laid down a red line, Obama is using his favorite rhetorical fallacy–the strawman argument.

ted c on September 5, 2013 at 12:43 PM

The “world” and “humanity” are the latest additions of the list of who to blame for Obama’s failures. Welcome to the club fellas! Allow me to introduce you to some of the more prominent members.

Bush
Republicans
Tea Party members
Conservatives
Congress
Congressional Republicans
ATMs
Self-service gas stations
The economy (except when discussing economic failures)
Bitter clingers

There are many others (there have been many failures) but you’ll get to meet them over time.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Finally, we come to the argument that Obama’s red line requires us to salvage his credibility, or risk rogue nations like Iran assuming that under Obama the US is nothing but a paper tiger.

Fixed

jukin3 on September 5, 2013 at 1:02 PM

Coup?

No. Not at all.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 12:57 PM

A co-equal branch of government legislating the removal of the head of another branch pretty much reads coup to me!

It’s moot anyway. Even if Obama wanted to resign, there is no way that the shaved Yeti he is married to is willing to give up the lavish lifestyle we are paying for. And I can’t think of anything more unpleasant a scene than Mooch being forced to fly commercial. Obama doesn’t have the kind of courage to deal with that.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 1:04 PM

What is this “vote of no confidence” nonsense?

A totally toothless threat under our Constitution.

If we had kept the King’s Parliamentary model…where the leader of the commons, and the winning “party,” the Prime Minister, as it were, won the majority of votes to get there is called on the carpet and told…we have no confidence in you…new elections called for Wednesday, next….then, a vote of no confidence would have meaning.

It has none under our Constitution nor under either House or Senate Rules.

It would send a message…maybe.

But, isn’t sending messages what got us in this stupid situation in the first place?

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 1:06 PM

“Let’s try anyway, ok?”

-Dog Eater

Bishop on September 5, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Speaking of which, since a picture is worth a thousand words, let’s take a gander at the naval standoff that’s developing over there.

RushBaby on September 5, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Nothing good ever comes from that many warships standing by in a particular part of the world. Accidents happen. And what are the Russian orders if the tomahawks start flying?

K.T. McFarland was on local radio yesterday. Her take was that this really is about having assets stationed nearby if 9/11 is a repeat of last year’s region-wide spontaneous protest over a video. But, I repeat, no good can come of this situation.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 1:04 PM

The legislative branch dictating to the Executive branch…nothing at all new there at all.

It is part and parcel to our co-equal three branches of governance.

An impeachment of a President is exactly that…the Executive branch being told by the Legislative branch, get out now…and the Judicial branch officiates in the Senate….so no, asking for a resignation is not a coup, just sort of a short duration quasi-impeachment. The President could challenge that to the USSC…but by then…the mojo be gone.

A coup involves not asking at all.

And I am for certain not in favor of that, not here, in the United States.

That is a road I hope to never see this nation walk.

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Julia actually got to meet Obama in person. At Dover AFB over the flag-draped casket of her dead daughter. Julia lost her only child but Obama’s credibilty ticked up or something.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Not to worry.

The girl was merely the in-vitro fertilized, clinically-implanted daughter of the government, raised by a village, and Barky didn’t feel a thing. In fact, he made Julia feel lots better too, by pointing out to her that his favorability rating had stopped falling, and after all, her stake in the girl had actually been very little, so she hadn’t lost much after all. Plus, he gave her a new phone.

Happy ending, see?

bofh on September 5, 2013 at 1:20 PM

That wouldn’t matter if vital national security issues were at stake in Syria, but they’re not, and the Obama administration isn’t even bothering to pretend there are.

Why did I think of our borders when I read this?

(I’m not trying to put words in Ed’s fingers. Our borders, I think he would agree, are “vital national security issues.”)

davidk on September 5, 2013 at 1:21 PM

No question about it, but when it does, we may end up with super-majorities in both chambers come 2014.

TXUS on September 5, 2013 at 12:47 PM

If we make it to 2014, that is. The potential failure to make it to there is also considered not exactly a bug by a portion of Team SCOAMT.

Steve Eggleston on September 5, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Love your Julia stuff…there is sooo much to ping Obama on with that Julia meme.

Please do go on. :-)

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Tomahawk is kind of a racist term isn’t it? Mr. president?

onomo on September 5, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Anyone with a bit of discernment and half a brain doing a little work could have seen through the snake oil that Obama had no credibility when he first got elected. He is a punishment from God for poking God in the eye so often.

crosshugger on September 5, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Happy ending, see?

bofh on September 5, 2013 at 1:20 PM

A phone and better polling for the President? How could it get better than that! /

But I’m serious when I say that I don’t think that the risk to those sailors has been adequately expressed by the thin-skinned rats or any of the neo-hawks out there screaming bombs away.

WWIII isn’t as far away as this adminstration claims.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Nothing good ever comes from that many warships standing by in a particular part of the world. Accidents happen. And what are the Russian orders if the tomahawks start flying?

K.T. McFarland was on local radio yesterday. Her take was that this really is about having assets stationed nearby if 9/11 is a repeat of last year’s region-wide spontaneous protest over a video. But, I repeat, no good can come of this situation.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 1:09 PM

US ships will stand-off at a distance exceeding that of Syria’s Russian anti-ship missiles when they launch cruise missiles.

What if Russian ships set up a line off of Syria, and shoot down incoming cruise missiles? They can quite credibly claim that the attack is illegal, having been voted down at the UN, and possibly even by the US Congress.

slickwillie2001 on September 5, 2013 at 1:27 PM

You heard it here first: The Emperor of the World will launch a strike before giving Congress a chance to officially oppose him.

HiJack on September 5, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Speaking of which, since a picture is worth a thousand words, let’s take a gander at the naval standoff that’s developing over there.

RushBaby on September 5, 2013 at 12:55 PM

How can you people say that obama is a coward. He is leading from the front! Rushbaby has included a picture of ships deployed to the Levant to take care of this problem, and the USS Barry is right out front.

Old Country Boy on September 5, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Julia’s daughter joined the Navy is currently on the USS San Antonio sitting off the coast of Syria.
Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Speaking of which, since a picture is worth a thousand words, let’s take a gander at the naval standoff that’s developing over there.

RushBaby on September 5, 2013 at 12:55 PM

The mid-Eastern world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwYNWYaS3bI

The eastern world, it is exploding
Violence flarin’, bullets loadin’
You’re old enough to kill, but not for votin’
You don’t believe in war, but what’s that gun you’re totin’
And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin’

But you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Don’t you understand what I’m tryin’ to say
Can’t you feel the fears I’m feelin’ today?
If the button is pushed, there’s no runnin’ away
There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave
[Take a look around ya boy, it's bound to scare ya boy]

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Yeah, my blood’s so mad feels like coagulatin’
I’m sitting here just contemplatin’
I can’t twist the truth, it knows no regulation.
Handful of senators don’t pass legislation
And marches alone can’t bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin’
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin’

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Think of all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
You may leave here for 4 days in space
But when you return, it’s the same old place
The poundin’ of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead, but don’t leave a trace
Hate your next-door neighbor, but don’t forget to say grace
And, tell me over and over and over and over again, my friend
You don’t believe
We’re on the eve
Of destruction
Mm, no no, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

http://artists.letssingit.com/barry-mcguire-eve-of-destruction-s1m88lj#axzz2e2ZJ08tO

davidk on September 5, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Anyone with a bit of discernment and half a brain doing a little work could have seen through the snake oil that Obama had no credibility when he first got elected. He is a punishment from God for poking God in the eye so often.

crosshugger on September 5, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Maybe not a punishment so much, but more of a consequence. Either way, we deserve what we get for voting this oaf into office and not rabidly marching in the streets protesting the way he’s ruined this republic.

HiJack on September 5, 2013 at 1:32 PM

What if Russian ships set up a line off of Syria, and shoot down incoming cruise missiles? They can quite credibly claim that the attack is illegal, having been voted down at the UN, and possibly even by the US Congress.

slickwillie2001 on September 5, 2013 at 1:27 PM

“What if” indeed. Does the Nimitz launch fighters? Does Iran join in the fun by attacking Tel Aviv? There are so many ways this “limited proportional campaign” can turn into a global shooting war. Consequences that I’m sure the lazy stupid President didn’t even consider when sitting in the situation room figuring out how to target that mocking 11-year-old.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 1:33 PM

How can you people say that obama is a coward. He is leading from the front! Rushbaby has included a picture of ships deployed to the Levant to take care of this problem, and the USS Barry is right out front.

Old Country Boy on September 5, 2013 at 1:30 PM

I’m sure the lazy stupid President thinks the ship is named for him but many of us with an appreciation for the Navy would object to your even putting a ship named for the father of the American Navy in the same thought as a Kenyan socialist who is trying to destroy the Navy.

Happy Nomad on September 5, 2013 at 1:37 PM

davidk on September 5, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Good ol’ Barry McGuire.

Had this on 45 way back. Watched my Dad take a hammer to it, too.

Bought another.

Thanks for the memories. :-)

coldwarrior on September 5, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Putin is saying this could go nuclear…so what now Preezy McBombypants?

workingclass artist on September 5, 2013 at 1:43 PM

Putin is saying this could go nuclear…so what now Preezy McBombypants?

workingclass artist on September 5, 2013 at 1:43 PM

I believe what Putin said is that an errant hit on a nuke plant (or whatever) could spread nuclear waste in the area.

HiJack on September 5, 2013 at 1:46 PM

We have no business in Syria. Period. It’s a civil war they need to resolve. We don’t need to save Obama from his own election year big mouth.

From Mark Steyn on August 30. And this is just a sample…

For a quarter-century, from Kuwait to Kosovo to Kandahar, the civilized world has gone to war only in order to save or liberate Muslims. The Pentagon is little more than central dispatch for the U.S. military’s Muslim Fast Squad. And what do we have to show for it? Liberating Syria isn’t like liberating the Netherlands: In the Middle East, the enemy of our enemy is also our enemy.

marybel on September 5, 2013 at 1:46 PM

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