Russia and China warn against Syrian intervention

posted at 10:01 am on August 27, 2013 by Bruce McQuain

As tensions rise over Syria’s alleged use of chemical weapons and it becomes obvious the US and some of its allies intend to act militarily, Russia and China are issuing warnings against any sort of  military strike:

Russia and China have stepped up their warnings against military intervention in Syria, with Moscow saying any such action would have “catastrophic consequences” for the region.

Says Russia:

Russian foreign ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich has called on the international community to show “prudence” over the crisis and observe international law.

“Attempts to bypass the Security Council, once again to create artificial groundless excuses for a military intervention in the region are fraught with new suffering in Syria and catastrophic consequences for other countries of the Middle East and North Africa,” he said in a statement.

Of course it is interesting that our Nobel Peace Prize winning president would, if he can manage it, bypass both Congress and the UN’s Security Council.  It seems eons ago that Mr. Obama was bashing then President Bush for supposedly ignoring the UN.  In September of 2009, he announced:

“We’ve re-engaged the United Nations… We have sought…a new era of engagement with the world.” He would “begin a new chapter of international cooperation” and he promised “we will work with the U.N.”

Of course, both China and Russia have made it clear they won’t approve a strike on Syria via the UN Security Council which complicates matters for our supposedly UN oriented President.

As for using every opportunity to engage in diplomacy with Russia to find a mutually acceptable solution?  Yeah, not so much:

Late on Monday, the US said it was postponing a meeting on Syria with Russian diplomats, citing “ongoing consultations” about alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria.

Hours later, Russia expressed regret about the decision. The two sides had been due to meet in The Hague on Wednesday to discuss setting up an international conference on finding a political solution to the crisis.

As for China, it has warned Western nations shouldn’t rush to judgement:

The official Chinese news agency, Xinhua, said Western powers were rushing to conclusions about who may have used chemical weapons in Syria before UN inspectors had completed their investigation.

Meanwhile in Washington, war talk is spooling up:

In the most forceful US reaction yet, US Secretary of State John Kerry on Monday described the recent attacks in the Damascus area as a “moral obscenity”.

He said the delay in allowing UN inspectors to the sites was a sign the Syrian government had something to hide.

He said Washington had additional information about the attacks that it would make public in the days ahead.

“What we saw in Syria last week should shock the conscience of the world. It defies any code of morality,” Mr Kerry said at a news conference on Monday.

“Make no mistake, President Obama believes there must be accountability for those who would use the world’s most heinous weapons against the world’s most vulnerable people.”

For Kerry this must be tough, since he has, in the past, referred to Bashar al-Assad as his “dear friend”.  And then there’s former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who had her finger right on the pulse of Syria:

“There’s a different leader in Syria now,” she told CBS’s Face the Nation, explaining, “Many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he’s a reformer.”

Of course this desire to do something comes 2 years and 100,000 deaths after the start of the Syrian civil war.  Apparently those 100k dead weren’t “heinous” enough to warrant action previously. Just not enough death to invoke the thin rational of “R2P”.

Russia is certainly not buying into this rush to action by the UK, US and France:

But Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters on Monday the West had not produced any proof that President Assad’s forces had used chemical weapons.

He was responding to suggestions from some Western countries that military action against the Syrian government could be taken without a UN mandate.

Mr Lavrov said the use of force without Security Council backing would be “a crude violation of international law”.

Funny how the worm turns sometimes, isn’t it?  Interesting how a side that was lambasting a former president over supposed violations of international law are now silent as they watch as precisely what they  previously condemned becomes reality.

And you have to wonder – where are the anti-war protesters?

~McQ

Blogging at QandO


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There are both Russian and Chinese diplomats, advisors, technicians and other ash and trash all across Syria.

Killing any one of them, or, worse, several, will have repercussions far and wide beyond Barry’s ability to comprehend.

Barry invades Syria, even if just by air…and Georgia rejoins Russia, and not by choice….and our ability to use Central air bases to resupply Afghanistan…ends…permanently.

On the Chinese side…you don’t know the half of it.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 10:07 AM

There are times when indecision, or no decision, is the best policy. Obama’s vacillating on Syria is one of the. A stopped clock is right twice a day. Let us hope Obama is right (even by accident) once in his presidency by laying off an attack on Syria. An attack on Syria has NO upsides. NONE!!!!!!

MaiDee on August 27, 2013 at 10:07 AM

Amazing how Kerry Fairy Liar Boy screamed that Saddam impeding inspections meant he had no weapons, while Assad impeding them means he does.

Obama Party members are either mentally incompetent or sociopath-level liars.

Or both.

northdallasthirty on August 27, 2013 at 10:08 AM

The only way the Assad regime, a creepy bunch at that, could lose the fighting on the ground is to have NATO or US join the conflict on the other side. Assad has the firepower of a national military against a rag-tag bunch of “protesters.” The use of chemical weapons is pretty much the only way that the US forces could be justified to go in.

Why would Assad use the only tactic that would ensure his defeat, when his conventional forces clearly outgun his enemies?

There has been no evidence proffered that the chemical signatures on the gas are from the Assad stockpile. When Rove & Obama are on the same page, look out!

Nemesis of Jihad on August 27, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Russia and China warn all the time… They issued warnings in the first Gulf war against Iraq and in the second war against Iraq… In reality and when we start the military actions they can do nothing about it… It has been the case since the fall of the Soviet Union… There is only one super power on this planet and it is the USA…

mnjg on August 27, 2013 at 10:08 AM

I agree with them this time… Stay out of it!

sandee on August 27, 2013 at 10:09 AM

And you have to wonder – where are the anti-war protesters?

They weren’t anti-war, just anti-Republican, which is pretty much how all the liberal causes work – feminism, Gaia worship, anti-War groups, anti-globalization gorups – they are just hollowed out shells used to funnel dollars to the Democrats and European equivalents.

Doomberg on August 27, 2013 at 10:10 AM

The only way the Assad regime, a creepy bunch at that, could lose the fighting on the ground is to have NATO or US join the conflict on the other side. Assad has the firepower of a national military against a rag-tag bunch of “protesters.” The use of chemical weapons is pretty much the only way that the US forces could be justified to go in.

Why would Assad use the only tactic that would ensure his defeat, when his conventional forces clearly outgun his enemies?

There has been no evidence proffered that the chemical signatures on the gas are from the Assad stockpile. When Rove & Obama are on the same page, look out!

Nemesis of Jihad on August 27, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Assad is not in control of all his army of what is left of it… His remaining army is a bunch of gangs and not all of them take direct orders from him and follow his orders… So it is possible that one of the army gangs decided to launch the chemical weapons attack without Assad ordering the attack…

Also contrary to what you hear Assad is not winning… It is a stalemate in Syria, a war of attrition… Pro-Assad forces kicks the rebels out of one neighborhood and they take over another neighborhood the second day if not the same neighborhood that they were kicked out from previously… It has been the case for the last two years.. So yes Assad or one of his gangs may have very well launched chemical weapons attack hoping that this can change the equation on the ground for their favor…

mnjg on August 27, 2013 at 10:12 AM

Take the keys away from Obama. This is insanity. Unless and until it is proven who used these weapons, the man needs to be stopped. Now.

Key West Reader on August 27, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Putin says “sit” and Obama will sit…

right2bright on August 27, 2013 at 10:14 AM

It only seems like it was yesterday that

“We came in friendship, hope, and determined that the road to Damascus is a road to peace,” said Pelosi, who met for three hours with Syrian President Bashar Assad.

Flange on August 27, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Mother of All Squirrels

ElectricPhase on August 27, 2013 at 10:15 AM

This is some funny stuff, gallows humor yes, but still funny.

Saddam gasses 5,000 Kurds and admits it, and our lefties scream “Internal matter! Internal matter!”

Someone in Syria, not sure who, gasses a few hundred and our lefties are strangely silent as Dog Eater preps for a military response.

Where are the giant paper-mache heads, you hypocritical trash, where are the marches and the buckets of pig blood and the rallies and the giant signs demanding peace and expressing solidarity with the poor civilians caught in the middle?

Hope and Change. Blow it out your pieholes, lefties, your caterwauling about Dubya was always a facade and it’s being proven at this very moment.

Bishop on August 27, 2013 at 10:16 AM

Putin says “sit” and Obama will sit…

right2bright on August 27, 2013 at 10:14 AM

I doubt it. O isn’t going to let himself look like a fool after all this muscle flexing (I know.. LOL)… Someone needs to take the keys away. Seriously.

Key West Reader on August 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM

Never thought I’d live to see the day when I’d be rooting for the Russians and the Chinese influence on our foreign policies.

Cleombrotus on August 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM

Even IF Assad used chemical weapons…even if he did…and it can be proven, beyond all doubt…is this alone worth one American life?

Where is the threat to our national security?

Obama told the people of Iran immediately after the brazen murder of Neda Agha-Soltan by Iranian Revolutionary Guards, an arm of the Iranian government, that “we do mot meddle in the internal affairs of other nations” and left thousands of Iranian to die or endure torture and prison most foul…because “we don’t meddle.”

Now, seems all Obama wants to do these days is meddle…Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Syria…you name it…he meddles it.

I have not heard one compelling argument, in the context of our overall national security nor in providing security for the region, nothing that compels us to intervene at this late stage of the game…other than securing Obama’s legacy as a “peacemaker” in the region…and is that worth getting people killed?

We could have intervened, maybe should have, but that was a number of years ago…when Obama refused to meddle…he had Obamacare to sell.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 10:22 AM

Take the keys away from Obama. This is insanity. Unless and until it is proven who used these weapons, the man needs to be stopped. Now.

Key West Reader on August 27, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Even then it is insanity.

A pre-announced 2-3 bombing campaign? Did Eisenhower let the Germans know about the Normandy landing? For that matter did SEAL Team Six call OBL and let him know they’d be dropping in? All Syria, which has a robust AAW capability, has to do is hunker down and know that the bombing will not continue indefinitely.

What is the national interest in intervention? There is no clear “good guy” in this conflict. Obama essentially is in favor of supporting Al Qaeda efforts over the current regime.

What is the end state? So we bomb the crap out of Syria for a couple days? What do we hope to accomplish by doing so. Other than the fact that Captain Kickass blustered about red lines a year ago. You don’t bomb without a purpose and I have heard nothing about what this campaign would do to change the situation on the ground.

What then? So, you’ve bombed the crap out of Syria for a couple days. What then? Or is this just trying to get the man card punched because you said the use of chemical weapons was a “game changer.” How does a couple days of bombing really change the game other than cause more damage within Syria and possibly elevate Al Qaeda to running the country? How does creating a power vacuum and/or a base for Al Qaeda operations in the national interest?

Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 10:23 AM

I remember that one of the theories for why there were very few chemical weapons found in Iraq was that they were transported to Syria. Is there any way to determine the manufacturing source for the chemical weapons used recently in Syria (markers?). Just wondering…

I know, I know… call me crazy…

dominigan on August 27, 2013 at 10:24 AM

O isn’t going to let himself look like a fool after all this muscle flexing

Key West Reader on August 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM

Yeah – and here cometh the inevitable “He just might be the most effective and powerful commander in chief ever” meme from the MSM.

beatcanvas on August 27, 2013 at 10:25 AM

You have to ask yourself. What do we gain in Syria? Is the price worth it? In the end doesn’t it even matter in that part of the world?

Oil Can on August 27, 2013 at 10:27 AM

Guaranteed Troll Free Thread™

Murphy9 on August 27, 2013 at 10:29 AM

Hypocrisy… as obvious as a new-born baby.

Fraud… need you ask?

Recent news of a chemical weapons attack in Syria smacks of desperation. The question comes down to who is most desperate right now, the Assad regime or the Muslim Brotherhood rebels?

The question is: why all the bluster and rush???

Who would be so desperate to rescue the Muzzie Bros…?

Yeah… I know it’s a trick question.

CPT. Charles on August 27, 2013 at 10:29 AM

Exit, stage right!

Shy Guy on August 27, 2013 at 10:31 AM

It only seems like it was yesterday that

“We came in friendship, hope, and determined that the road to Damascus is a road to peace,” said Pelosi, who met for three hours with Syrian President Bashar Assad.

Flange on August 27, 2013 at 10:15 AM

I don’t think “road to Damascus” means what that worthless vile woman thought it meant. Or did she think that her three hour chat with a dictator was going to convert him to the principles of Jeffersonian Democracy? If anything being in the same room with Pelosi for three hours would be enough to make me into a committed anti-American.

Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 10:32 AM

I remember that one of the theories for why there were very few chemical weapons found in Iraq was that they were transported to Syria. Is there any way to determine the manufacturing source for the chemical weapons used recently in Syria (markers?). Just wondering…

I know, I know… call me crazy…

dominigan on August 27, 2013 at 10:24 AM

Yes, but it won’t happen, and I think most of world knows the WMD went to Syria.

Every leader in the world knew Saddam had WMD’s, every leader, not one leader, including Russia, claimed otherwise (besides a few radical middle east, and even Egypt knew)…Hillary, Kerry, Feinstein, all of them believed and had the evidence…Spain, Ireland, Australia, Italy, Germany, etc., all of them knew…and know where it went.
But it won’t matter…because the dems were more interested in winning than protecting lives, they allowed the WMD’s to “disappear” and now reappear in the form of death.

Pathetic…thousands of lives for a few votes…

right2bright on August 27, 2013 at 10:32 AM

I agree with them this time… Stay out of it!

sandee on August 27, 2013 at 10:09 AM

As do I.

Where are the giant paper-mache heads, you hypocritical trash, where are the marches and the buckets of pig blood and the rallies and the giant signs demanding peace and expressing solidarity with the poor civilians caught in the middle?

Bishop on August 27, 2013 at 10:16 AM

Silly man, don’t you know all that stuff is racist? Like a rodeo clown wearing a latex 0bama mask that you could buy at any Halloween store for the past 5 years.

Thou shalt not criticize, or even question, Emperor Zero.

UltimateBob on August 27, 2013 at 10:32 AM

Guaranteed Troll Free Thread™

Murphy9 on August 27, 2013 at 10:29 AM

Oh! I hope not. I’m in the mood for troll hunting.

Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Assad is not in control of all his army of what is left of it… His remaining army is a bunch of gangs and not all of them take direct orders from him and follow his orders… So it is possible that one of the army gangs decided to launch the chemical weapons attack without Assad ordering the attack…

Possible?!? mnjg, are you kidding me? On the possibility of a rogue gang of generals formerly associated with the Assad regime we go to war?

Where is the chemical signature verification?

Rag-tag protesters can’t win a conventional war against a well-stocked national military.

What purpose is served for the Assad regime in using weapons that invite an invasion by superior forces?

Nemesis of Jihad on August 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM

…both China and Russia have made it clear they won’t approve a strike on Syria via the UN Security Council which complicates matters for our supposedly UN oriented President.

They won’t approve of military strike…but I’m guessing neither of them would actually do anything should it come down to that. That way, China and Russia can save face with countries like Iran.

JetBoy on August 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM

I don’t think “road to Damascus” means what that worthless vile woman thought it meant.
Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 10:32 AM

she was thinking about the bob hope/bing crosby movie they showed on the flight over.

chasdal on August 27, 2013 at 10:37 AM

What purpose is served for the Assad regime in using weapons that invite an invasion by superior forces?

Nemesis of Jihad on August 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM

From the perspective of the United States’ national interest what difference, at this point, does it make?

We shouldn’t be intervening in the first place. This is only going to happen because Captain Kickass drew a line that he shouldn’t have. Now people are going to die by American weaponry because somebody needs his manhood card back.

Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 10:38 AM

Funny how the worm turns sometimes, isn’t it?  Interesting how a side that was lambasting a former president over supposed violations of international law are now silent as they watch as precisely what they  previously condemned becomes reality.

And how a side who formerly defended to the hilt a former President doing exactly that, now lambasting the next President for doing what they defended the last one for doing.

But as I’ve said repeatedly. The teams just switch sides, what you opposed only months before while out of power becomes the norm, and what you defended while in power becomes abhorrent. Nothing changes except the letter after the names. It’s a game. The clock never stops.

Rife with hypocrisy on all sides. While those in power simply play you and those on the other side for you votes, support, and defense of them.

What Republicans defend while in power, they decry while out of power. What democrats decry while out of power, they defend while in power.

But you guys still buy in. It’s nothing but theater.

Highlighting the hypocrisy on one side and ignoring the hypocrisy on your own only continues the process.

Yes, the democrats are doing exactly what they absolutely pitched a fit about under Bush.

And Republicans are pitching a fit about exactly what they defended under Bush.

A vicious cycle that many here seem to have no desire or capability to either see, accept, or break from.

Because its just a game to try to be the ones who getting to sit behind the control panel, so THEY can be the ones to do the exact same things they throw a fit about when powerless.

Fools, hypocrites, and charlatans, all around.

Genuine on August 27, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Guaranteed Troll Free Thread™

Murphy9 on August 27, 2013 at 10:29 AM

You underestimated teh stoopid…

Murphy9 on August 27, 2013 at 10:47 AM

That way, China and Russia can save face with countries like Iran.

JetBoy on August 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Has very little to do with “saving face” with Iran…but everything to do with the effective application of diplomacy, economic and military might, and a recognition of realpolitik in a region to come out on top at the end of the day.

If Russia and China can end American influence in the region…and do so without firing a shot…they win.

They know this.

The only card left to Team Obama [The guys who brought us smart power...and not Samantha, who is not smart at all] the only card left is to somehow pull off the impossible…a few air strikes or cruise missile or drone launches…and Assad runs for the border tail tucked ‘tween his legs…

Not gonna happen any time soon.

The Russian port at Tartus is still up and running…and Latakia is under Syrian military control…well out into the suburbs and beyond. Of the more than 20 Syrian air bases, only four are under “opposition” control, and there is no opposition air force…the Syrian air force is largely intact and being resupplied routinely.

Damascus currently controls the wide majority of the country.

Why would Assad leave?

Unless we take more than a couple days…maybe weeks not days…maybe months…and actually reduce all of Syria to ashes…

Then what?

Après Assad vient l’inondation

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM

I am hoping that Obama is going to continue being such a pussy that he chickens out of attacking Syria because of Russia an China’s threats. I do not see how our attacking Syria is in our interest or the general interest of the world. But I suppose we have to assume that Obama will some way manage to make the worse possible decision given the circumstances. It’s what he does best.

thuja on August 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM

Obama, the Muslim whisperer, is going to air drop the Muslim Brotherhood into Syria…

albill on August 27, 2013 at 10:50 AM

she was thinking about the bob hope/bing crosby movie they showed on the flight over.

chasdal on August 27, 2013 at 10:37 AM

We’re off on the Road to Damascus,
What we are doing there, hmmmm just don’t ask us….

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 10:51 AM

Why are we going to the UN over Syria, when Dear Liar didn’t even go to Congress over Libya? If we have to comply with international law with Syria, where the goal isn’t even necessarily regime change, isn’t he then implicitly admitting he violated international law over Libya? Is he admitting to being a war criminal (which his new SoS has admitted to as well?)

rbj on August 27, 2013 at 10:54 AM

Fools, hypocrites, and charlatans, all around.

Genuine on August 27, 2013 at 10:39 AM

And here you are.

But somehow you managed to stay aloof and see through it all. I’ll bet you get a crick in your neck on a daily basis from sticking your nose in the air.

Dubya got Congressional approval before he attacked, has your boy followed the same procedure?

Bishop on August 27, 2013 at 10:55 AM

I don’t think “road to Damascus” means what that worthless vile woman thought it meant.
Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 10:32 AM

Just like when she claimed her favorite word was “the word”.

Flange on August 27, 2013 at 10:56 AM

Well, this has taken Benghazi off the front page, hasn’t it – and just when things were starting to warm up.

OldEnglish on August 27, 2013 at 11:03 AM

Just like when she claimed her favorite word was “the word”.

Flange on August 27, 2013 at 10:56 AM

Yeah, I had forgotten about that. A committed abortion supporter and “good Catholic” making perhaps the most awkwardly ignorant discussion of faith. It was if she was grasping phrases from memory about Christianity and randomly spewing them to the hostages who had to listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSko2ixEB8U

Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 11:04 AM

VDH brings common sense to the whole issue in Syria. Coldwarrior knows that he is talking about.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/356804/syrian-surrealities-victor-davis-hanson

onlineanalyst on August 27, 2013 at 11:17 AM

WMD, baby … WMD!!!
Welcome to the fundamental transformation of America!

mel23059 on August 27, 2013 at 11:18 AM

Yeah – and here cometh the inevitable “He just might be the most effective and powerful commander in chief ever” meme from the MSM.

beatcanvas on August 27, 2013 at 10:25 AM

Yeah, I think you’re on to something. “Gutsy Call” anyone?

3-2-1

Key West Reader on August 27, 2013 at 11:23 AM

Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 11:04 AM

It reminded me of a school kid trying to BS an answer while hoping the bell would ring to save her.

Flange on August 27, 2013 at 11:29 AM

It reminded me of a school kid trying to BS an answer while hoping the bell would ring to save her.

Flange on August 27, 2013 at 11:29 AM

Exactly! LOL.

Happy Nomad on August 27, 2013 at 11:33 AM

Guaranteed Troll Free Thread™

Murphy9 on August 27, 2013 at 10:29 AM

You underestimated teh stoopid…

Murphy9 on August 27, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Genuwhine has a deep reservoir of stupid to draw on.

slickwillie2001 on August 27, 2013 at 11:37 AM

Humbug
Hippocrates
Liars thieves

losarkos on August 27, 2013 at 11:41 AM

Cross-posting this from “IDF” post:

Link to article claiming UN inspectors are leaning towards rebels using gas

Don’t know how credible this is and why there is no other report or repeat anywhere else.

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Funny how the worm turns sometimes, isn’t it? Interesting how a side that was lambasting a former president over supposed violations of international law are now silent as they watch as precisely what they previously condemned becomes reality.

 
And how a side who formerly defended to the hilt a former President doing exactly that, now lambasting the next President for doing what they defended the last one for doing…
 
Fools, hypocrites, and charlatans, all around.
 
Genuine on August 27, 2013 at 10:39 AM

 
And here you are.
 

Dubya got Congressional approval before he attacked, has your boy followed the same procedure?
 
Bishop on August 27, 2013 at 10:55 AM

 
Considering that you had the ability to look back on his Libyan precedent when you voted in 2012, I truly hope you’ll field the Congressional approval question, Genuine.
 
Or were you just writing an incredibly elaborate spelling of “I don’t care, Obama is awesome”?

rogerb on August 27, 2013 at 11:50 AM

And you have to wonder – where are the anti-war protesters?

They weren’t anti-war, just anti-Republican, which is pretty much how all the liberal causes work – feminism, Gaia worship, anti-War groups, anti-globalization gorups – they are just hollowed out shells used to funnel dollars to the Democrats and European equivalents.

Doomberg on August 27, 2013 at 10:10 AM

Well, to be fair, Cindy Sheehan is busy these days-she’s announced she wants Governor Moonbeam’s gig in California.

Del Dolemonte on August 27, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Fools, hypocrites, and charlatans, all around.

Fake on August 27, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Does that include Bill Ayers?

Radical anti-war revolutionary turned education advocate Bill Ayers said Tuesday he believed President Barack Obama should be charged with war crimes.

Ayers, who co-founded the far left revolutionary Weather Underground group, told Tom Bevan and Charlie Stone of Real Clear Politics that Obama’s use of targeted drone strikes was “absolutely” a form of terrorism.

Del Dolemonte on August 27, 2013 at 11:57 AM

I have not heard one compelling argument, in the context of our overall national security nor in providing security for the region, nothing that compels us to intervene at this late stage of the game

then you are an idiot:

1) The President of the United States stated categorically that any use of serious chemical weaponry would lead to consequences and change his calculus. When the POTUS speaks, he should follow through with his threats else the US is known as a paper tiger

2) The Russian Navy has a port at Tartus, Syria and Assad is a client of theirs. Ending Russian supremacy in the Eastern Meditteranean is a national security interest of the US

3) The Iranian regime is our foremost enemy in the world- they control Assad and have spent billions propping him up. Any way to wound the Iranians and their interests is a national security positive for our country.

4) Hizbullah is actively involved in combat operations in Syria on behalf of Assad. Whittling down their combat strength and having them lose a major war helps weaken their power and control over a sovereign Lebanon.

5) destroying the Syrian Arab Army assists our allies in Turkey, Israel and Jordan.

6) Eliminating Assad protects Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and Turkey from retaliation by a victorious Damascus regime.

7) demonstrating that the use of WMD anywhere in the world will not be tolerated by civilized society is an important interest of the United States in the 21st century.

I could go on…

AirForceCane on August 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Well, to be fair, Cindy Sheehan is busy these days-she’s announced she wants Governor Moonbeam’s gig in California.

Del Dolemonte on August 27, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Wow, apparently the attention whore doesn’t like to be ignored during progressive regimes.

Flange on August 27, 2013 at 12:02 PM

So, State Dept. is now Al Jazeera West? How many times have we seen videos of dead people suddenly alive and well? How many times did we see arabs fake one event or another, one death or another? And Kerry has “proof” now that it was Assad and not Al Qaida using WMD? What proof is it, can we actually see it? And when was the last time idiots in DC paid attention to Libya and Egypt and how our “help” actually assisted in radicals taking over the countries? Why are we openly helping and arming Al Qaida? Again. And Again. Why can’t we learn from our very recent mistakes? Benghazi has been forgotten, so quickly?

And where are our great military commanders to tell Hussein to shove it?

We used to be a great nation.

riddick on August 27, 2013 at 12:02 PM

Lucky for Obama that he has more “flexibility” after his re-election, because the world is twisting him into a pretzel!!

Deano1952 on August 27, 2013 at 12:02 PM

Cross-posting this from “IDF” post:

Link to article claiming UN inspectors are leaning towards rebels using gas

Don’t know how credible this is and why there is no other report or repeat anywhere else.

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 11:44 AM

The idea that any of the “rebels” can get hold of Sarin in a deliverable format is a big f*cking deal.

gh on August 27, 2013 at 12:10 PM

The idea that any of the “rebels” can get hold of Sarin in a deliverable format is a big f*cking deal.

gh on August 27, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Yes. And we’ve known that at least some attacks were made by the rebels – at least that is what the UN says. So what gives here? 100,000 dead, but the only important ones are 355 that may have been attacked by Assad forces – even thought we really don’t know for sure…

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Is Obama sure this time who did it? Could be the result of a YouTube video. And who in Congress or on the world stage has the gravitas to ask?

meci on August 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM

gh on August 27, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Here’s some videos that might prove interesting.

CPT. Charles on August 27, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Because its just a game to try to be the ones who getting to sit behind the control panel, so THEY can be the ones to do the exact same things they throw a fit about when powerless.

Fools, hypocrites, and charlatans, all around.

Genuine on August 27, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Regardless of Genuine’s motives, he has a point here.
Complaining about your opponent’s actions, even though you would do the same thing, is standard political theater.
The difference is not in the leadership of the parties (who stand to benefit from opposition when “out” to policies they espoused when “in”) but in the base. Democrats who really are anti-war will not criticize their leaders’ bellicosity; Republicans who really are pro-intervention will criticize their leaders’ reticence.

However, in this case, the above (mostly correct) observation was harnessed to an erroneous premise:

Funny how the worm turns sometimes, isn’t it? Interesting how a side [D] that was lambasting a former president [R] over supposed violations of international law are now silent as they watch as precisely what they previously condemned becomes reality.

And how a side who formerly defended to the hilt a former President doing exactly that [violating international law], now lambasting the next President for doing what they defended the last one for doing.

The meme of the Unilateral-Warmonger-Republican-President was never true, and has been debunked repeatedly; Mr. Bush sought and received Congressional approval, built an international coalition, and had the (initial) support of the American public, hence (regardless of the merit of his policies) the “supposed” violations never occurred.
Therefore, the Republicans were not defending him for “doing exactly that”, but for executing a policy with which most of the country was in agreement, at the time.

In contrast, Mr. Obama has ignored Congress and the expressed will of the people (depending on the poll-taker you believe), and instead acts at the behest of allies who have agendas that don’t necessarily correspond to US interests; technically, he might not be violating international law, but he is doing what the Democrats accused Mr. Bush of doing.

Therefore, Republicans lambasting him are not inconsistent, even if their protests may be mostly political opportunism in action.

AesopFan on August 27, 2013 at 12:20 PM

Here’s some videos that might prove interesting.

CPT. Charles on August 27, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Just ignore those videos for now…nothing to see here…not even worth following up on….squirrel…

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Here’s some videos that might prove interesting.

CPT. Charles on August 27, 2013 at 12:19 PM

It’s just an Assad trick…

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Sarin in Syria is one thing. Sarin in the subway is something else.

One more reason to be concerned about the Mexican border …

gh on August 27, 2013 at 12:25 PM

On the Chinese side…you don’t know the half of it.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 10:07 AM

Yep…that beehive is mad because they had made at least 11 deals with Morsi, as soon as he was ‘elected’ and Morsi went to Beijing. They are spitting mad at the mil. in Egypt.

obama is mad too – he is always with the MB. That’s who he wants in Syria. What it’s all about, fools of the world.

Schadenfreude on August 27, 2013 at 12:26 PM

Asaad has hidden the chemical stuff in very highly populated places already. He is smarter than obama, and he is a real dummy, compared to his vicious father.

Schadenfreude on August 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM

AirForceCane on August 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Ok…we destroy the Assad regime..totally take it down…then what?

Feeling all frisky about trying out all this high-tech American wonderful weaponry is one thing.

Doing so with no end plan in place is another.

Is LIbya better off today than it was four years ago?

Is Egypt?

Yemen?

Iraq?

Afghanistan?

Using military force absent a coherent foreign policy is folly.

And a waste of America’s most precious resource.

When the POTUS speaks, he should follow through with his threats else the US is known as a paper tiger

Well…when a POTUS speaks out of his nether regions, we must in lockstep follow his every flatulance?

The Russian Navy has a port at Tartus, Syria and Assad is a client of theirs. Ending Russian supremacy in the Eastern Meditteranean is a national security interest of the US

I am well aware of the Tartus facilities..They’ve been there a long long time. And they’ve done what exactly that threatens us? Or, are we supposed to be the king of the hill in every clime or locale? For what reason? Can’t even afford to take care of the basic logistic and training needs of our current armed forces…yet we will expend all sorts of cash to prove what? Everywhere?

The Iranian regime is our foremost enemy in the world- they control Assad and have spent billions propping him up. Any way to wound the Iranians and their interests is a national security positive for our country.

So, why have we been dicking around with Iran for years, allowing them to grow and prosper? If Iran is our foremost enemy…then why are they atill around?

Hizbullah is actively involved in combat operations in Syria on behalf of Assad. Whittling down their combat strength and having them lose a major war helps weaken their power and control over a sovereign Lebanon.

And after Assad is gone, Hizbullah will quietly return to Iran, right?

destroying the Syrian Arab Army assists our allies in Turkey, Israel and Jordan.

Really? A stable secular Syria is far better than another Islamist ruled caliphate in the region?

Eliminating Assad protects Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and Turkey from retaliation by a victorious Damascus regime.

And the jihadis in Syria are all ready and willing to take down Israel, and Jordan, and Turkey once they have taken down Assad.

Retaliation by Assad on Jordan and Israel and Turkey is not a major item on Assad’s list of things to accomplish.

demonstrating that the use of WMD anywhere in the world will not be tolerated by civilized society is an important interest of the United States in the 21st century.

You have proof positive that Damascus has used WMD? Our own CIA has no such proof. [Conversations with former colleagues.] Matter of fact there are more and more bits of intel coming out to show that the actual users of WMD in Syria have yet to be identified, despite Kerry’s assertions that he has “proof.”

As to important interests of the United States, how are they being served in the region today? In other parts of the world? Being an angry bull in a china shop does not win friends nor influence people in a positive way. We can’t even compel an”ally” to whom we have given billions and billions over the years to answer phone calls from our POTUS…what influence d o we have anymore?

Or, shall we enlarge our military to WWII proportions,and establish new expensive bases all over the world, again, and compel through the use of force other nations to kowtow to our every whim…because we are ‘Murica?

Our intervention in Syria should have taken place in 2009, maybe 2010, quietly, when there was still a very large secular presence among those opposed to Assad. And none of it would have required boots on the ground nor cruise missile or drone strikes anywhere.

But, smart power won out…and we refused to meddle for several years until POTUS drew a “red line” whatever the hell that meant.

I could go on.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Schadenfreude on August 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Your assessment seems about right.

I hope the hidden stuff is secure.

gh on August 27, 2013 at 12:32 PM

I could go on.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 12:28 PM

I think you missed one. Turkey an ally? With friends like that …

gh on August 27, 2013 at 12:34 PM

6) Eliminating Assad protects Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and Turkey from retaliation by a victorious Damascus regime.

7) demonstrating that the use of WMD anywhere in the world will not be tolerated by civilized society is an important interest of the United States in the 21st century.

I could go on…

AirForceCane on August 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM

#1-5 are majorly good points also; however, in re #6, a victorious jihadist regime would definitely strike at Israel and foment trouble in Lebanon and Jordan equivalent to retaliation; Turkey is an open question at the moment, since Erdogan seems to be supporting the rebels, but given the current situation, would we be averse to Assad harassing the Turks?
#7 is a valid concern, especially in answer to the question of why these few hundred deaths are more important than the previous few hundred thousand.
There is no way we can interdict conventional weapons, regardless of their technical complexity; they are, sadly, too widespread and too familiar.

WMD, especially bio/chemical, are still capable of producing a horrified reaction from the public, so there is some potential of limiting their acceptance as standard weapons of war as long as any use, no matter how “inconsequential”, is immediately rebuked.
Most (regrettably, not all) parents understand the principle of instant reaction to small infractions in order to limit major ones later. Letting any use of WMD pass without response guarantees that they will enter the common repertoire and will never be expunged.

In other words, we have to keep the Overton window from moving as long as we possibly can; regardless of the merit or wisdom of intervention in any particular situation, the long-term goal might well demand action.
Which isn’t to say you can’t choose among the options and pick the smartest action.
Regrettably, we don’t really trust Mr. Obama and his administration to do that.

AesopFan on August 27, 2013 at 12:35 PM

Your assessment seems about right.

I hope the hidden stuff is secure.

gh on August 27, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Don’t need a lot of expertise to produce something akin to phosgene gas…just a healthy supply of chlorine, like bleach or the stuff they use in swimming pools, add an extra chemical…uric acid, for instance…that’s piss to the non-scientific crowd…and a means to either disperse it, or simply initiate the reaction…55-gallon drums of bleach, quart bottles of pee…in a confined neighborhood, very very deadly.

And pretty much untraceable.

Can cause skin lesions, especially around the mucosal tissues, eyes, mouth, nose…and essentially cause the recipient to drown in their own lung fluid, as the body produces more liquids to either force out the gas, or overwhelm it. Agonizing way to go.

Results looks sorta like those videos seen of the recent Syrian “gas attack.”

And easily desolves after ten or twenty minutes when it meets clear air…and wind.

Next time your pet pees on the floor, pour a couple drops of Clorox on the pee. Just do not breathe it in.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 12:43 PM

Oh No!

Nothing new, but a repeat. I wonder if bluffington host will report this.

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 12:45 PM

AirForceCane on August 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM

vs.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Your rebuttal was informative and the discussion clearly needs a larger forum than a blog-thread; however, in re your comment:

You have proof positive that Damascus has used WMD? Our own CIA has no such proof. [Conversations with former colleagues.] Matter of fact there are more and more bits of intel coming out to show that the actual users of WMD in Syria have yet to be identified, despite Kerry’s assertions that he has “proof.”

Not knowing who used the weapons, or if they were in fact used, does not invalidate the need to rebuke the use when it occurs.
Finding the malefactors and judging the proper response are separate questions.
That’s why Mr. Obama’s actions are problematical, to say the least.

AesopFan on August 27, 2013 at 12:48 PM

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 12:45 PM

But John F. Kerry told us that he had proof positive that Assad personally drove over to that neighborhood and supervised the entire chemical attack personally…being he was so keen to get the world to invade Syria and depose him a la Ceaucescu.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM

But John F. Kerry told us that he had proof positive that Assad personally drove over to that neighborhood and supervised the entire chemical attack personally…being he was so keen to get the world to invade Syria and depose him a la Ceaucescu.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM

Mr. Kerry served in Vietnam briefly. He was then on the unofficial “downlow” negotiating team in Paris that brought peace to the region.

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 12:56 PM

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 12:56 PM

:-)

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Those on our side may make what I’m seeing as a mistake to see a Syria strike as a way to get a bite at the rotten apple of Iran.

No, a “surgical” “strike” on Syria would achieve nothing but give Syria more support from Russia & China, and however you slice it it would inflame the international community against us as the aggressor. To get at Iran in a regime change way would take a major war, and of course Russia and even China would be on the other side, and, who knows, possibly with troops. That’s where a wider war becomes really dicey, as these guys have nukes… that can hit us.

I like John Bolton, but on Greta last night when asked about Russia’s concerns he said without even a seconds hesitation that we shouldn’t worry about Russia’s concerns, “it’s our national security interests” that we need to be concerned about. Well, having Russia (and China) pissed off at us goes against our national security interest, so we do need to be concerned. Yes, if there was some overwhelming national interest at stake compelling us to go against the grain of Russia and China, then we probably should that action. But it doesn’t look like Syria is that. Be wary that rash action will only give Russia & China greater license in the future to take military actions themselves that we disapprove of. One day we may come into direct conflict, and it could be a major WWIII style conventional war, or worse, nuclear. So, Syria better be so important that it is worth expending our international goodwill on, and the only thing important possibly is taking Iran out, and that seems unlikely.

anotherJoe on August 27, 2013 at 12:59 PM

anotherJoe on August 27, 2013 at 12:59 PM

Like Russia invading Georgia because of allegations that Georgians were mistreating Ossetians.

But that’d never happen.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 1:10 PM

It looks like the link from Washington Times and others claiming UN says it might be rebels that used the gas is a repeat from May made to look like the current claim of the UN is that the attacks from 5 days ago were from the “rebels”.

This is a link from the Daily Paul that has the actual source of the quotes – from May. Yikes – having to use the Daily Paul to clarify….gulp.

Link to Daily Paul

Doesn’t take away the videos of “rebels” launching the blue canisters from shoulder fired.

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 1:11 PM

Of course it is interesting that our Nobel Peace Prize winning president would, if he can manage it, bypass both Congress and the UN’s Security Council.

Doesn’t matter. The French enthusiastically support it. That’s all that matters to a Dem.

In 2003 we had a coalition of dozens of other countries including Britain, UN authorization in the fall of 2002 to do all necessary to get Saddam to comply with UN resolutions, and a majority vote in Congress authorizing the use of force.

France insisted we needed a second UN authorization, which at the last minute they declared they would veto, after telling us for months they wouldn’t.

Because of this the Dems/MSM/libs/lefties declared that the “cowboy” GWB was recklessly “going it alone”. At the time Illinois State Senator Comrade O was also opposed to the Congressional authorization.

But now that Comrade O is Prez and the French are on board everything is different. Dear Leader doesn’t need a UN vote. And he doesn’t need Congressional authorization. And the fact that we did nothing when Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people doesn’t matter either. Emperor Obama doesn’t even care that US public opinion overwhelmingly opposes direct military intervention in Syria.

This admin is arrogant, hypocritical, and incompetent. And it is authoritarian and drunk with power — Fast and Furious, unauthorized Libyan intervention, Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the NSA scandal, spying on journalists, and now intervening militarily without UN or Congressional approval. It’s The Chicago Way writ large.

Too bad we didn’t do a better background check on Comrade O in 2008. Or after Benghazi in the fall of 2012. The American people may not have given him so many guns and bombs and missiles to play with.

farsighted on August 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM

We need to stay out of Syria.

Has anyone seen RWM lately?

dogsoldier on August 27, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Notice how now that socialists are running things in the US, in Britain, and in France UN approval for the use of force against another nation is suddenly unnecessary. US Congressional approval isn’t needed either. Nor does US public opinion matter.

Socialists are the real authoritarian fascists. They call everyone else fascists to distract and deflect.

farsighted on August 27, 2013 at 1:42 PM

Fools, hypocrites, and charlatans, all around.

Genuine

Yes, you are.

Regardless of Genuine’s motives, he has a point here.

AesopFan

No he doesn’t. He’s grasping at straws. Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria have little if any similarities to one another, no matter how much he imagines otherwise.

1) The President of the United States stated categorically that any use of serious chemical weaponry would lead to consequences and change his calculus. When the POTUS speaks, he should follow through with his threats else the US is known as a paper tiger

AirForceCane

So, according to your brilliant logic, any time a president wants an excuse to go to war, all he has to do is say something really stupid, and then the only solution after is to go to war so he won’t look bad for saying something stupid, lol. I sure hope you’re not in a position of authority in the air force.

xblade on August 27, 2013 at 1:44 PM

1) The President of the United States stated categorically that any use of serious chemical weaponry would lead to consequences and change his calculus. When the POTUS speaks, he should follow through with his threats else the US is known as a paper tiger

AirForceCane

Didn’t Zero say something similar about Iran and nuclear weapons?

The U.S. is already known as a paper tiger under the clown posse. He’s a joke.

dogsoldier on August 27, 2013 at 1:58 PM

Uh-oh. John McCain weighing in and saying Obama green-lighted the attacks because he did nothing about the previous gas attacks. Link at Drudge.

As thin skinned as Obama is it should be interesting to see if he responds to McCain.

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 2:00 PM

And, because of all this the stock market is sinking like hell. I just looked and it was down 165 points at 3:20am. Stop the world, I want to get off. The entire world is going insane.

SC.Charlie on August 27, 2013 at 3:23 PM

“A pre-announced 2-3 bombing campaign? Did Eisenhower let the Germans know about the Normandy landing? ”

No, but we DID drop 63 million leaflets on Japan detailing exactly what cities we intended to destroy. We didn’t say exactly when or how, but we haven’t specified this in that case either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Leaflets

I don’t recall seeing all this in the news before we invaded Grenada or Panama, so I assume all the news about American naval forces moving is posturing on the part of the administration. How else do the reporters know? Are any of them at sea themselves? Doubt it. If they know this its because they were told it is so at a press release.

Which means the Obama administration may be using this as an option on the table to force some kind of diplomatic outcome. I have no idea how that’s even possible after he was made to look weak on his last red line. That’s the problem with being Mr. International Nice Guy — you have to do a lot more killing to be taken seriously than if you’d just played hardball from the start.

I don’t know how we can possibly avoid air strikes on Syria at this point unless Obama folds completely. I do not believe he will do that.

pendell2 on August 27, 2013 at 3:52 PM

oldroy on August 27, 2013 at 2:00 PM

DailyBeast article. Get second sources. I just tried to find some. Only Newsweek came up. McCain is completely capable of saying those things, but I want verification. NewsWeek and DailyBeast are run by the same folks… Is Brown still there?

dogsoldier on August 27, 2013 at 3:56 PM

It’s true America can start the attacks regardless of Chinese and Russian warnings.

What America can’t do, regardless of where China and Russia stand, is make the war pay off for America.

An unprofitable war is a mistake whether somebody can stop you or not.

David Blue on August 27, 2013 at 4:03 PM

So basically, the exact same people who told us not to go into Iraq, except this time France has switched sides because they weren’t the ones selling the weapons to Syria.

The Schaef on August 27, 2013 at 4:06 PM

Iraq did not pay off for America. It cost a lot of wounds, deaths and money, and there was no outcome worth the sacrifice.

David Blue on August 27, 2013 at 4:22 PM

This Middle East succint ‘analysis’ sums it all up, pretty much all you need to know about ME and its actors, in a nutshell :)

jimver on August 27, 2013 at 4:36 PM

It is likely that at least one US warship will be hit and sunk by a anti-ship missile during this proposed engagement. That will jack things up, perhaps beyond control.

Mason on August 27, 2013 at 4:38 PM

jimver on August 27, 2013 at 4:36 PM

Smart cookie, that KM al-Sabah guy…sounds Kuwaiti.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 4:42 PM

We could have intervened, maybe should have, but that was a number of years ago…when Obama refused to meddle…he had Obamacare to sell.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 10:22 AM

You are adult level bright. You might find this, from another who is adult level bright, worth reading.

The Permanent Bipartisan Fusion Party Prepares for War

VorDaj on August 27, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Smart cookie, that KM al-Sabah guy…sounds Kuwaiti.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 4:42 PM

He probably is, and he nailed it :)…now, if only ‘the smartest man on the planet’ was half as smart as this dude, he’d know what (not) to do….

jimver on August 27, 2013 at 4:53 PM

VorDaj on August 27, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Worth sharing. I will do so.

For some reason or another, an old Country Joe and the Fish song has stumbled through my mind over the past few weeks…

There’s irony there,friend.

The anti-war hippies are now out there clamoring for…wait for it…war.

It’ll be a good war.

This time.

Madness.

coldwarrior on August 27, 2013 at 4:58 PM

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