Republican poll: Public opposed to a government shutdown to defund ObamaCare, including Republicans

posted at 5:51 pm on August 22, 2013 by Allahpundit

Interesting, if not surprising, although I’m not sure who the target audience is. The “defund ObamaCare” initiative is well into litmus-test territory by now, thanks to the number of tea-party heavy hitters in favor and the number of dreaded RINOs opposed. This new data will be dismissed as an establishment GOP effort to scare Rand Paul and Ted Cruz into backing down, even though they have zero incentive to do so. If they can’t get 41 Republican votes in the Senate, they’ll shrug it off and say they were on the side of the angels. Whatever the outcome, when it’s all over, they’ll be more popular on the right than they were before.

The real audience here isn’t really Paul and Cruz, of course, but Senate Republicans who plan to vote no and need some rhetorical ammo in defending their vote.

In a national survey of 1,000 registered voters done July 31 and August 1, the question, from pollster David Winston, said, “Some members of Congress have proposed shutting down the government as a way to defund the president’s health care law” and asked respondents whether they favored or opposed that plan.

Overall, 71 percent of those surveyed opposed a shutdown, while 23 percent favored a shutdown. Among Republicans, 53 percent opposed, versus 37 percent who favored…

Among Republicans who called themselves conservative, those who said they are very conservative favored shutdown by 63 percent to 27 percent, while those who said they are somewhat conservative opposed shutdown by 62 percent to 31 percent. Overall, Republicans who call themselves conservative were evenly split on the issue, 46 percent to 46 percent…

Winston also did a generic ballot test. Among people who say at this point that they plan to vote for the Republican candidate in 2014 — regardless of who it is — 51 percent said they opposed a shutdown, while 40 percent favored it. “What has to be concerning here is the fact that more than half the people who are presently voting for a Republican oppose this idea,” Winston told me. “If you’re concerned about what it might look like in terms of a general election, if half the voters who say they are going to vote for a Republican candidate oppose this, then you are creating a conflict for them to vote for a Republican candidate.”

Mirror image results between the “very conservative” and “somewhat conservative,” just as you’d expect from a litmus test. But wait — hasn’t Rand Paul said specifically that he doesn’t want a shutdown? Indeed he has — which is proof enough that even tea partiers are worried about the political fallout if it happened. The question is, is there an endgame here realistically where Obama blinks and agrees to defund before it comes to a shutdown (or at least shortly after one begins)? Realistically, no, says David Freddoso:

If you think you can get the Democratic Senate to pass (and Obama to sign) a bill that funds the government while defunding Obama’s absolute top priority without first going through a prolonged government shutdown — and we’re talking weeks or months here, not days — then you’re just not being serious. This has no chance of success unless you shut the government down for a very long time.

The guy already lost the House so that he could get Obamacare — do you really think he’s going to cry uncle one week into a few embassy closures? Obama cries uncle only when tens of thousands of government employees start having their homes foreclosed because they’re not being paid…

The defund-or-shutdown effort — and that’s what it is — represents a threat, something along the lines of: “Do what I say, or I’ll shoot myself in the leg.” I’m all for making threats, using leverage, and risking elections to get good governance, but this is not an effective tactic, because it’s in the other person’s interest to let you shoot yourself. Obama would welcome a shutdown — why should he come to the table to stop Republicans from wounding themselves for nothing?

You’ve got three possible outcomes. One: O caves relatively quickly and agrees to defund. That’s not going to happen, not only as a matter of pride in his signature legislation but as a matter of necessity. He needs the health-insurance exchanges to begin on time. Public dependency on federal subsidies is key to the law’s long-term prognosis. Agreeing to delay the whole project gives Republicans their only real chance of killing the law before it’s implemented. He’d rather have the lights go off than do that. Two: The GOP comes around to Cruz’s and Paul’s position, leaving O and Republicans deadlocked. The government shuts down and the public waits to see who’ll blink first. The media lights up with White House talking points about Republicans risking damage to the economy in order to deny health-care coverage to the middle class, yadda yadda — you know how it goes. Obama, being a lame-duck whose eye is on his legacy, has little incentive to blink. Aspiring GOP presidential candidates do. Eventually some face-saving compromise is reached to end the shutdown, possibly a delay of some O-Care provisions that aren’t related to the exchanges, but the law is funded and, if you believe the Winston poll, Republicans are probably damaged. Three: The “defund ObamaCare” effort fails to draw 41 Republican votes for a filibuster. Cruz and Paul cite it as ultimate proof of RINOism run rampant in Washington. Paul, for one, likely also mentions that certain Republican governors with their eye on 2016 actually enabled ObamaCare by accepting the law’s Medicaid expansion while he and tea partiers were busy trying to kill the damned thing. In the next round of presidential polls, he and Cruz both see their numbers rise.

In short, scenario one is a nonstarter, scenario two hurts the party while failing to accomplish its objective, and scenario three works out pretty well for everyone. Which do you think is likeliest?

Via Guy Benson, here’s the new online ad from Heritage backing the Cruz/Paul effort.


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Again, SHE didn’t have to.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:29 PM

Yes, SHE did, along with the left-kooks in her party. THEY held the line.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Raises hand….. I know….

I know exactly why.

The world would go on spinning sunrise to sunset and maybe there’d be this ‘why do we need all of these “folks”‘ here, on staff, anyway? consideration or thought, at least.

You don’t ya big dummies. Send’em home.

A few weeks later…

What did we miss? Not a thing.

Now, start repealing 10 for every passed bill. And, ah…

Where is the budget, Mr. Majority leader? Huh? Huh?

I hear the mortgages have outpaced reality around DC. Suffer, biatches.

Okay, and the various departments. Just never get back to it.
Chickens. They never will. Gutless f’s.

Oh, I’d like to see that. Wow, we actually got through several weeks and months of ‘no more money’, we trimmed, we pared, we didn’t die. Where’s the budget Reid?

All non-essential people, bye-bye.

Weed further from there.

That’s how it’s done.

mickytx on August 22, 2013 at 7:31 PM

Heartless realist.

mickytx on August 22, 2013 at 7:33 PM

I am not opposed to a shutdown should Obama choose to lock the door.In fact Obama doesn’t have the courage to do it if he would get the blame for it,so let’s get the repubs to get the messaging RIGHT!

tim c on August 22, 2013 at 7:33 PM

They were your lines, cupcake.
ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:24 PM

I tell you what. It is a thing of divine comedy to watch you in the very next post, just pick out the only sentence you can find to make a pointless nanny nanny boo boo response, while you ignored entirely the whole answer to you post that was all right below it.

What no response?

Can’t argue back?

Can’t prove me wrong?

Huh? Cupcake?

;)

Cute.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:33 PM

The democrats could AFFORD to lose a cycle. The Republicans, only holding a single body of congress and having a tough time getting anything through even with the Hastert rule, do not.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:29 PM

The Dems could AFFORD to in the same way the Reps could AFFORD to in 2006. The difference is the Dems accomplish what they want. The Reps mainly suck up to your ilk while accomplishing little. Quick, name me the most prototypical “Tea Partyish” pieces of legislation produced by that strongly GOP Congress (along with a GOP president) from 2001-2006.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:33 PM

As much as I hate Obamacare and want it gone, I think the current red-meat “strategery” is not the best. Given Obama would never sign a bill defunding or repealing Obamacare, the GOP should be in the business of dismantling piece by piece. Hell, even Obama is doing some of it without them.

Remember, without a mandate and/or any penalties it isn’t enforceable on the states.

Tater Salad on August 22, 2013 at 7:34 PM

What no response?

Can’t argue back?

Can’t prove me wrong?

Huh? Cupcake?

;)

Cute.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:33 PM

I am arguing back. The problem is you’re a pompous ass who can’t see your own self-contradiction. The GOP does nothing and you trumpet its dismal approval rating. So the prescription is obviously to do…more of the same.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:35 PM

^ Cupcake.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:35 PM

Republican poll: Public opposed to a government shutdown to defund ObamaCare, including Republicans

That’s interesting…I don’t get it considering the unpopularity of Obamacare, though.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 22, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Yes, SHE did, along with the left-kooks in her party. THEY held the line.
ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Bs. They calculated a loss. And held the line with that in mind.

You’re calculating no loss. And wanting to hold the line on a position that has zero chance of success even if every single republican in Washington someone did everything exactly as you’d wish to see.

You’re dreaming. Dreams they’re feeding you. To use you. That they won’t follow through on.

Go on. Watch. Believe me. I’ll tell you I told you so again.

;)

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Bs. They calculated a loss. And held the line with that in mind.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Yeah, that’s what I said about 8 posts ago, cupcake. Nice of you to catch on, finally.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:38 PM

You’re calculating no loss.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Reading is fundamental. Go back and read what I wrote.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:39 PM

The Pubs lost me because there’s little clear difference between them and the Democrats. I’m tired of this hands-across-the-water shit; I don’t want to work with liberals. I want them destroyed as a political force. With RINOs like McCain, it’s never going to happen and the Pubs will keep losing elections because they can’t out-pander the Democrats. Besides, what life-long Dem is going to vote for a cheap imitation when he can have the real thing?

The only close-to Conservatives in the Pub party are too few and too new. Te RNC doesn’t want us, and even Karl Rove has a PAC dedicated to locking us Conservatives out of the party.

Why would any of us want to stay Republican?

Liam on August 22, 2013 at 7:40 PM

So the pollster is a Boehner soldier pushing for democrat results and Hot Air links it. Boehner should be removed from his position over this.

Pay attention people. We are being played and this site is in on it. What a shame.

DanMan on August 22, 2013 at 7:40 PM

*every republican in washington SOMEHOW

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Yeah, that’s what I said about 8 posts ago, cupcake. Nice of you to catch on, finally.
ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:38 PM

So what loss are you calculating from this?

Doesn’t calculating a loss from this action imply a certain belief in the polls like the one that originated this thread?

And what are you gonna do after that loss, since it means democratic regains?

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Notice that the underlying story does NOT admit the source of this poll. Nor does it have the actual poll questions. Also of note, like Ed used to point out constantly, there are no cross-tabs to go with this poll.

Is it even possible this is NOT Carl (Allahtidbit) Rove propaganda?

Freddy on August 22, 2013 at 7:45 PM

Meanwhile this, as a priority.

Schadenfreude on August 22, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Ace (thanks to rdbrewer) has linked to Erick Erickson that the poll was conducted by a Boehner adviser. It gave him the desired result.

GIGO.

Ace’s link.

njrob on August 22, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Thanks.

It’s all BS. Obamcare can be shut down and the onus can be placed on the democrats. That’s what the GOP doesn’t want you to know.

rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 7:46 PM

That’s interesting…I don’t get it considering the unpopularity of Obamacare, though.
Dr. ZhivBlago on August 22, 2013 at 7:37 PM

It’s really pretty easy.

“unpopular” does not equal “yearning to destroy at any and all costs, above all else, and by any means necessary”.

But too many want to believe that because a majority don’t think the best of the law that that means a majority actually thinks about it the way “conservatives” around here think about it.

The types of “conservatives” around here are only about 15% of the population at best.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:47 PM

It’s largely because a lot of those so-called Republicans are on social security and don’t want those checks stopped. Otherwise, why’d they give a crap?

fatlibertarianinokc on August 22, 2013 at 7:50 PM

Thanks.
It’s all BS. Obamcare can be shut down and the onus can be placed on the democrats. That’s what the GOP doesn’t want you to know.
rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Haha! Right! Because if it WAS possible. They’d totally want to hide it and wouldn’t try it at all.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:51 PM

Ace (thanks to rdbrewer) has linked to Erick Erickson that the poll was conducted by a Boehner adviser. It gave him the desired result.
GIGO.
Ace’s link.
njrob on August 22, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Not surprised.

Just what the surrender-preferring Republicans, like pro-amnesty Guy Benson (who uses his Green Room privileges to put down conservative plans for defunding Obamacare), wanted to hear.

bluegill on August 22, 2013 at 7:52 PM

They’d totally want to hide it and wouldn’t try it at all.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:51 PM

Exactly.

rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 7:53 PM

I am arguing back. The problem is you’re a pompous ass who can’t see your own self-contradiction. The GOP does nothing and you trumpet its dismal approval rating. So the prescription is obviously to do…more of the same.
ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:35 PM

The GOP does nothing?! Haha! No sweetheart, no. The GOP has spent 5 years doing nothing but playing theatrical games and threatening to shut down the government.

It’s YOUR answer to what to do now that is merely more of the same.

Yours.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Exactly.
rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Haha! Riiiight. Ok brother. Fair enough.

Don’t stop believing.

Hold on to that feel-a-e-ya-ing-ing!

Then I’ll come back and tell you I told you so again.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:57 PM

Time to defund the repubs who have already defanged and declawed themselves.

Impeach Obama!!

Sherman1864 on August 22, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Then I’ll come back and tell you I told you so again.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:57 PM

Tell me what? That republicans lost again?

rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 8:01 PM

here is David Wiston’s conclusion of the 2012 election

What Republican campaigns need to develop is the ability to win issues and prove their candidates are ready
to govern.
David Cameron in his effort to modernize the Conservative Party redefined its purpose as not to
win elections but to prove the party is ready to govern. The implication is that once you have proven you are
ready to govern, you will win elections.
At a broader level, Republicans have to become the party of economic growth again, and effectively engage
in developing and advocating policies that reflect that
. This is essential if Republicans hope to grow as a
party.

he doesn’t talk much about hispanics…except to point out the in 2010 Rs did pretty well with them.

let’s be honest. McCain was not fit to be prezy…he continues to damage the R party…it is who he is.

the R party has a plague of incompetent pols inside the wire. The flounder around, grabbing this or that, think this will make me popular. These people may be hoping to please the Business Donor class because, really, that’s all they have. They’ve lost their base thru manifest incompetence…and are, like Filner and all other dirty pols, trying to hang on until they can get a sweet exit deal.

I do not think Winston is the problem…the big problem in the lack of serious leadership. McCain is not a leader…which is why the left loves him so much. They flounder and flail about, blaming their base. That is nothing less that political malpractice.

r keller on August 22, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Your continuous asinine hyperbole, ad hominem, and strawmen expose you for the braying jackass that you are.

besser tot als rot on August 22, 2013 at 6:57 PM

“fenced in laughing hyena” works better for me; your own mileage may vary! :)

Anti-Control on August 22, 2013 at 8:04 PM

http://winstongroup.net/2012/12/03/2012-post-election-analysis/

here’s the link…btw, there’s a couple of interesting graphs on the
ideological spectrum of the county.

a strong party would know what to do with this data. A weak irrelevant party has no clue…and will be extinct soon if they don’t learn

r keller on August 22, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Genuinely moronic comes off as someone who’s bipolar & permanently stuck in the manic phase!

Anti-Control on August 22, 2013 at 8:11 PM

How cute it is that Levin has a story of Boehner stating he is for funding Obamacare regardless of the consequences!

No doubt he thinks he can use this alledged poll as cover. I suspect we are one step closer to creating a new third party.

Freddy on August 22, 2013 at 8:29 PM

As much as I hate Obamacare and want it gone, I think the current red-meat “strategery” is not the best. Given Obama would never sign a bill defunding or repealing Obamacare, the GOP should be in the business of dismantling piece by piece. Hell, even Obama is doing some of it without them.

Remember, without a mandate and/or any penalties it isn’t enforceable on the states.

Tater Salad on August 22, 2013 at 7:34 PM

You don’t send him a bill “defunding Obamacare,” you send him a bill without funding Obamacare. You may think it’s a semantic difference, but in the real world, the difference is huge.

When you say “we’re trying to fund the gov’t, but Obama and the Dems won’t fund it because they want to force this horrible law upon you” that will play well with the public.

njrob on August 22, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Thanks.

It’s all BS. Obamcare can be shut down and the onus can be placed on the democrats. That’s what the GOP doesn’t want you to know.

rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Gladly. What does it say about this site when they won’t even tell you where the poll came from? Disappointing to say the least.

njrob on August 22, 2013 at 8:43 PM

I am annoyed that the language is Obama’s language, “the republicans are going to shut down the government.” Defunding this program or that program does not shut down the government.

If Obama does not sign the bills that are sent to him, pretty soon he runs out of money.

I think if we can Defund Obamacare, we can defund the rest of the things we do not like. HUD. No new hires, a hiring freeze. Defund things by specifying what spending it is for instead of letting the administration decide…I would FUND the border fence, it was passed into law a long time ago.

So, can we fund and defund from the House as we wish or is it not possible????

Just because Obama says he wont sign it, does not mean the House is shutting the government down.

Stop saying it, I don’t want to shut the government down, I want them to spend less money, cut some programs. That is a budget, where is the budget? Paul Ryan said his budget did not fund Obamacare, this last one he did was an excercise in leaving it out. It is on/has been on Harry Reid’s desk….And yes, I am ok with Boehner keeping the sequester levels in tact because they deflate a lot of this administrations overspending that inflated from the stimulus in 2009. We out here…would like to see some regular order, and that means the president and the Senate take up what they are sent.

Fleuries on August 22, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Get off the crackpipe people…….

…….do some of you SERIOUSLY think the gop wants to get rid of taking over 1/6th of the economy???

The party leadership is salivating over being in charge of this.

….and just like algore is reported to have said, they believe in “global warming” (because that would give them EVEN MORE CONTROL of our lives).

PappyD61 on August 22, 2013 at 8:47 PM

Sigh…

RNC just called and asked me for a donation to help “stop the total liberal takeover of the government.” Still playing defense instead of showing why our values are worthy of governance.

I told him I’d rather send my money directly to candidates of my choosing. Thank you and have a good night.

njrob on August 22, 2013 at 8:53 PM

I’m NOT shocked the GOP has a poll saying that, because the GOP are a bunch of wet noodles, and the only good thing from a wet noodle is dinner.
What a bunch of limp wet noodles.
I told the RNC NOT to call me until the cry baby speaker is gone!!!

mmcnamer1 on August 22, 2013 at 9:06 PM

Cruz and Lee need to come up with a plan to back up defunding Obiecare quickly..:)

Dire Straits on August 22, 2013 at 9:15 PM

So what loss are you calculating from this?

Doesn’t calculating a loss from this action imply a certain belief in the polls like the one that originated this thread?

I’m assuming that the poll is accurate. The loss is:

And what are you gonna do after that loss, since it means democratic regains?

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Democrat regains. The libs play a long game. They wouldn’t care even if they didn’t have the media in their pocket, and they really brush off the loss of a cycle or two or three. The Agenda is what matters, and they’ll doggedly further that agenda no matter what, while the GOP sits around worrying about polls and who likes them and who doesn’t.

The GOP does nothing?! Haha! No sweetheart, no. The GOP has spent 5 years doing nothing but playing theatrical games and threatening to shut down the government.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Which is doing nothing. Look, sweetie, don’t worry. The GOP has no intentions of doing away with ObamaCare. The party powers that be never did.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 9:18 PM

A government shutdown would be awesome. It would possible stop Obama Care, and it would keep the government from doing any more harm to us taxpayers, and the country in general.

F_This on August 22, 2013 at 9:19 PM

IF the majority of the public opposes a government shut down it is ONLY because they have been manipulated and brainwashed into believing if the government shuts down they will not get their Social Security, Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment, food stamps, Obamaphones, the military won’t be paid, and the interest on the money we owe won’t be paid — ALL of which is NOT true! Someone should really explain to people about the mandatory expenditures that are paid out automatically no matter what.

IMO, the truth is that ALL the politicians do not want the government to shut down because THEY and their staffs won’t be paid. By accepting Obama’s brib…er, ‘offer’ to agree to allow American citizens – who not only have to pay their own price-skyrocketing health care premiums – pay up to 70% of their (our politicians) & their staff’s premiums, they have shown me as long as they get ‘THEIRS’, $crew America/Americans!

I think THEY say the majority of US don’t want the government sut down, but I think THEY are lying POSes!

easyt65 on August 22, 2013 at 9:31 PM

I think stories like this may ultimately decide the fate of Obamacare –

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2013/08/22/delta-warns-obamacare-will-cost-it.html

rickv404 on August 22, 2013 at 9:44 PM

It’s really pretty easy.

“unpopular” does not equal “yearning to destroy at any and all costs, above all else, and by any means necessary”.

Genuine on August 22, 2013 at 7:47 PM

You apparently think of government shutdowns as bringing about some sort of grim Mad Max post-apocalyptic scenario. Most of us have been through them, and came through pretty much unscathed.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 9:45 PM

Feels like the waters raising as I ask how did we ever get here? Shaking my head and taking a deep breath…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1wg1DNHbNU&list=PLuJQfwDH07FYBjadko8FCPaYerTcEfrqg

wubu on August 22, 2013 at 9:46 PM

This is a Boehner poll. Anyone surprised at the results?

John Boehner Is Scared Conservatives Are Gaining Momentum

NotCoach on August 22, 2013 at 9:53 PM

John Boehner Is Scared Conservatives Are Gaining Momentum

NotCoach on August 22, 2013 at 9:53 PM

Good. Be very scared.

rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Why are the status quo R’s pushing this shutdown over defunding obamacare meme on behalf of the dems?…Oh

Gohawgs on August 22, 2013 at 9:59 PM

The Mason-Dixon Line is looking wiser every day now.

They can keep Washington, DC like last time, too.

viking01 on August 22, 2013 at 10:05 PM

wubu on August 22, 2013 at 9:46 PM

If you’re going to go there, let’s all have a nice big laugh, again, though I strain to do that…

Politizoid

Seems like an eternity doesn’t it? The good ol’ days.

These gutless wonders won’t do what must be done. Nope. Esteemed colleagues, etc.

mickytx on August 22, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Mark Levin today:

“Because the republicans don’t want to get rid of it.

And instead of taking on Obama and taking on the Left, they’re taking on the conservatives and the constitutionalists and attacking them, telling us to wait until tomorrow and the next day.

These French republicans, they are always surrendering.

Believe it.

rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Gohawgs on August 22, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Good evening..Good to see you..:)

Dire Straits on August 22, 2013 at 10:19 PM

going over to qotd to see if my spirits can be lifted, but you’re correct rrpjr, Levin.

mickytx on August 22, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Obama is PRAYING the GOP defund Obamacare so he can spend every night blaming them for shutting down the government. Why aren’t the Repubicans explaining that Funding one has nothing to do with the other. If everything stops, it’s on Obama. Are the GOP in on this scam?

RdLake on August 22, 2013 at 10:35 PM

Dire Straits on August 22, 2013 at 10:19 PM

Hiya, Dire…I’m here every day, just don’t comment much…

Gohawgs on August 22, 2013 at 10:38 PM

Are the GOP in on this scam?

RdLake on August 22, 2013 at 10:35 PM

Ding, ding, ding — We have a winner…

Gohawgs on August 22, 2013 at 10:40 PM

Way to keep toeing that establishment GOP party line, AP.

I guess you like this poll, so it isn’t “dubious”, eh?

Midas on August 22, 2013 at 10:41 PM

Let the war begin.

Midas on August 22, 2013 at 10:42 PM

Hiya, Dire…I’m here every day, just don’t comment much…

Gohawgs on August 22, 2013 at 10:38 PM

Understand..John the Libertarian is ready for football so maybe you can join us on QotD threads in when it starts..:)

Dire Straits on August 22, 2013 at 10:54 PM

The same poll had conservatives preferring Boehner to Cruz by 52% to 48%. …well, it didn’t, but it might as well have… Polls are a favored tool of Progressives and their ilk worldwide.

Ceteris Paribus on August 22, 2013 at 11:10 PM

Cruz and Lee’s website dontfundit.com has over 500,000 votes now…20,000 votes/day…with 39 days left they’ll have over 1.2M when times up. Pretty good showing and u know they are raising awareness and money in the process.

Can see why Cruz is being maligned on the right and the left…he’s smart and principled. Not gonna cave no matter what they call him.

gracie on August 22, 2013 at 11:36 PM

Dire Straits on August 22, 2013 at 10:54 PM

Yeah, JtL accosted me with something about Samford. Right State, wrong school…/

Gohawgs on August 22, 2013 at 11:38 PM

Can see why Cruz is being maligned on the right and the left… he’s smart and principled. Not gonna cave no matter what they call him.

gracie on August 22, 2013 at 11:36 PM

You answered your own question.

rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 11:45 PM

Nice video. Yes, keep defunding things, including Obamacare nonsense. It the government shuts down, that will save yet more money. This sounds like a get-well plan to me.

It would not matter if Washington was closed for 6 months. The economy would surge. Everything they do costs money and destroys wealth.

virgo on August 22, 2013 at 11:53 PM

Can see why Cruz is being maligned on the right and the left… he’s smart and principled. Not gonna cave no matter what they call him.

gracie on August 22, 2013 at 11:36 PM

Sorry — I misread your comment as “can’t.” You get it.

rrpjr on August 23, 2013 at 12:01 AM

That poll is BS!

MCGIRV on August 23, 2013 at 12:17 AM

Cruz and Lee’s website dontfundit.com has over 500,000 votes now…20,000 votes/day…with 39 days left they’ll have over 1.2M when times up. Pretty good showing and u know they are raising awareness and money in the process.

313 Million people live in this country……

libfreeordie on August 23, 2013 at 12:25 AM

That poll is BS!

MCGIRV on August 23, 2013 at 12:17 AM

What is this October 2012?

libfreeordie on August 23, 2013 at 12:25 AM

I am actually opposed to a government shutdown, BUT not opposed to Cruz and Paul screaming they want a shut down to stop ObamaCare.

Why? My personal feeling is ObamaCare will be a debacle of epic proportions and it is named after Obama! He can’t try and blame this on someone else. I say the people voted for this president so I say give them what they want. The only way people will ever learn is if they suffer some pain. ObamaCare is the best weapon the GOP has against Obama and the Dems going into 2014 because the pain will be big time when November 2014 roles around and even worse by 2016.

Cruz, Paul and the GOP in general need to make a big enough stink to show the American people they did their best to stop this debacle from happening but Obama and the Senate Dems stopped it. A government shutdown simply allows the Dems to change the narrative to another story and take the focus off this Healthcare Titanic.

Sometimes you have to let your enemies hang themselves…ObamaCare is the weight around the neck of the Dems just like the Iraq War is the weight around the GOP’s neck in the 2000s. At some point it breaks the neck…

William Eaton on August 23, 2013 at 1:09 AM

It’s all BS. Obamcare can be shut down and the onus can be placed on the democrats. That’s what the GOP doesn’t want you to know.

rrpjr on August 22, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Not really. Mr. Clinton managed to blame the Republicans for his shutdown — and they’d even passed a budget. In the end, Clinton signed a budget which was a lot closer to the Republican position than to his (it actually balanced), but he won the media war and the shifts in Congress showed his message that Republicans were obstructionist resonated — particularly given the media’s stance.

To get the blame for a shutdown to stick to Obama, we’ve got to do it the way the Democrats do. They chew their food for years, eating it in little bites, but, in the end, they’ve got a full stomach — everything they wanted.

So, we have to start small. Let’s get medicare restored, and because Obamacare was promised as revenue neutral, take just that little bit and shift it. It’s a win win situation — we stymie Obamacare and become protectors of the elderly. After all, the Democrats imposed a tax on things the elderly need in order to fund Obamacare — setting up a war between the generations — except that the young people don’t think they need insurance as much as the elderly think they do. Of course, both groups are right, but Obama never did understand healthcare…

unclesmrgol on August 23, 2013 at 1:53 AM

I’m sorry, but a shutdown is and will be a stupid idea. Several conservatives I support and admire have advocated it, but I am certain they are mistaken for several reasons.

`

1. Republicans are ALWAYS blamed for shutdowns. When Reagan was President, he was blamed. When Clinton was in office, the GOP Congress was blamed. We will be blamed.

2. It is futile. It cannot be sustained, and Obama knows that. He has the advantage because he really doesn’t care how much pain the people suffer as long as he wins in the end. So expect a real shutdown, not the partial shutdowns that still hurt Reagan and Dole and Gingrich. Obama will bring the pain. Don’t forget #1 above.

3. It is bad policy. We control only one House of Congress. We cannot expect to dictate a change of policy while Democrats hold the Senate and the White House. Elections matter, and have consequences. Our losses in 2006, 2008, and 2012 have meaning, and those who stayed home because our candidates or leaders were not “pure enough” bear some of the blame. We have no right to impose our views with such tactics, and see also #1 above.

4. It distracts from the real issue. The best course is to allow ObamaCare to take effect. Once all the healthy young people realize how much of their formerly discretionary income will be taken for premiums or penalties, they will turn on Obama. Maybe they won’t vote GOP, but all that is needed is that they return to their historical apathy. Instead of inciting them to defend Obama, let them feel the pain he is bringing them.

Adjoran on August 23, 2013 at 2:47 AM

The bottom line is that the GOPe are no more willing to do away with O-care than the Dems are. The GOP is doomed to destruction, and the sooner the better.

ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 6:51 PM

I agree… sadly. I subscribe to National Review, as I’ve done for decades. Mr. Lowry, like many other establishment types, are so far removed from reality they have dismissed the base. Not the base that they think exists, but the true base, and they’ve done it at the party’s peril. These are perilous times….

Vanbasten on August 23, 2013 at 5:16 AM

Why is it so hard for you to see that you are spreading a false narrative?!

Conservatives are not voting “to shut down the government!”

They are voting to fund the government, but not to fund OCare.

That is a distinction that continues to escape you. But it is a critical distinction.

The only other choice is to go on record as voting FOR ObamaCare!

That is the box the GOP is allowing itself to be trapped into by cowards.

Any shutdown of government would be at the hand of Obama.

If you want to talk about POLLS, then, please INCLUDE all those polls which show that the people overwhelmingly oppose ObamaCare!

mountainaires on August 23, 2013 at 6:12 AM

I oppose voting for anyone who thinks passing a spending bill without one program is “shutting down government.”

I’m really tired of the sea of absolute stupid that the United States of America has become. Just let it crash. The people here deserve nothing less.

MNHawk on August 23, 2013 at 6:30 AM

They were your lines, cupcake.
ddrintn on August 22, 2013 at 7:24 PM

I kind of agree with you for once. But let’s not be so pessimistic. We are not necessarily doomed to destruction. You always go around with the doom and gloom postings. :-(

bluegill on August 23, 2013 at 6:33 AM

Don’t blink. Defund it!

http://www.redstate.com/2013/08/21/dontblink-defund-it/

mountainaires on August 23, 2013 at 6:36 AM

I’m sorry, but a shutdown is and will be a stupid idea. Several conservatives I support and admire have advocated it, but I am certain they are mistaken for several reasons.

`

1. Republicans are ALWAYS blamed for shutdowns. When Reagan was President, he was blamed. When Clinton was in office, the GOP Congress was blamed. We will be blamed.

2. It is futile. It cannot be sustained, and Obama knows that. He has the advantage because he really doesn’t care how much pain the people suffer as long as he wins in the end. So expect a real shutdown, not the partial shutdowns that still hurt Reagan and Dole and Gingrich. Obama will bring the pain. Don’t forget #1 above.

3. It is bad policy. We control only one House of Congress. We cannot expect to dictate a change of policy while Democrats hold the Senate and the White House. Elections matter, and have consequences. Our losses in 2006, 2008, and 2012 have meaning, and those who stayed home because our candidates or leaders were not “pure enough” bear some of the blame. We have no right to impose our views with such tactics, and see also #1 above.

4. It distracts from the real issue. The best course is to allow ObamaCare to take effect. Once all the healthy young people realize how much of their formerly discretionary income will be taken for premiums or penalties, they will turn on Obama. Maybe they won’t vote GOP, but all that is needed is that they return to their historical apathy. Instead of inciting them to defend Obama, let them feel the pain he is bringing them.

Adjoran on August 23, 2013 at 2:47 AM

Your fear is palpable, and you have made a very solid argument for voting against funding ObamaCare.

1). Voters stayed home because the GOP didn’t give them a reason to get out and vote. Elections matter; principles matter MORE, because if you don’t have any, people can’t be bothered to get out and vote for you. When you stand for nothing, that is what you get in return — nothing.

2). We have “no right” to “impose our views” but every right to REPRESENT the views of those who elected us. The Republicans hold a majority in the House FOR A REASON. To dismiss the MAJORITY of voters who demand that the GOP stop OBamaCare is ultimately to “impose our views” in direct defiance to their clear wishes! See 1.

3). Maybe “they won’t vote GOP” if Republicans cannot find the courage to stand up for those who sent them there in 2010 and 2012 for the express purpose of stopping ObamaCare. See 1.

mountainaires on August 23, 2013 at 6:54 AM

313 Million people live in this country……

libfreeordie on August 23, 2013 at 12:25 AM

hmmm 504,000 in Cruz’s pole…..1000 in this poll…niiice

gracie on August 23, 2013 at 6:54 AM

Don’t blink. Defund it!

http://www.redstate.com/2013/08/21/dontblink-defund-it/

mountainaires on August 23, 2013 at 6:36 AM

Darn right.

You are my favorite poster when you really get going.

bluegill on August 23, 2013 at 7:28 AM

Remember all those promises by House GOP in 2012 that they WOULD defund O-care.

Liars.

stenwin77 on August 23, 2013 at 7:32 AM

Cruz and Paul cite it as ultimate proof of RINOism run rampant in Washington

In other words, most Republicans live outside the far right fringe, yet still have to deal with the fringe accusing it of lacking true GOP credentials. Looking forward to see how well Cruz or Paul do in a national election, pushing ideas that are all too often unpopular with the mainstream American voter. Cuda!

Remember all those promises by House GOP in 2012 that they WOULD defund O-care.

It’s been attempted over 30 times in repeated bills put up to vote in unprecedented acts of symbolism and wasted time. The rule of law still matters.

bayam on August 23, 2013 at 8:22 AM

Remember, without a mandate and/or any penalties it isn’t enforceable on the states.

Tater Salad on August 22, 2013 at 7:34 PM

So tell me why we few conservatives in hopelessly liberal states should belong to a national (pretend opposition) party, if that national party won’t stop national bills from being impossed upon us from above.

“Obama won’t sign it” is just shear unwillingness to fight. I’m sure he’ll eagerly allow it to be dismantled piecemeal…

“The Japs won’t give up Okinawa, Iwo Jima or the mainland. ” is the same game. Truman, right or wrong, fixed that problem. Maybe we should have just capitulated?

Don L on August 23, 2013 at 8:24 AM

The rule of law still matters.

bayam on August 23, 2013 at 8:22 AM

One party imposes its will upon the American people who said they didn’t want it. Another party has the moral right to defund that unilaterally imposed abomination.

The rule of law still matters unless your city decides to Kelo your property to give it to a rich donor to make it more profitable. Tell us then about the “rule of law.”

Don L on August 23, 2013 at 8:29 AM

The real audience here isn’t really Paul and Cruz, of course, but Senate Republicans who plan to vote no and need some rhetorical ammo in defending their vote.

So, if they’re voting no, then they’re voting FOR a government shutdown? How does this help them?

Remember, the alleged game plan is to pass a budget in the House that completely funds the government, sans Obamacare. If Senate Republicans vote No on this funding bill, they are voting Yes on shutting down the government. And this poll gives them cover on that, how?

In reality, I don’t expect such a bill to pass the House, either. But your logic is backwards, AP.

Chris of Rights on August 23, 2013 at 8:32 AM

If boehner thinks debt limit is any way to fight ocare he is full of it. Stop the cancer now before it destroys us all. Fight or die!

tim c on August 23, 2013 at 8:35 AM

They need to rephrase the question to include…Do you favor a government shut down to defund Obamacare as long as your government checks keep coming in and the military continues to get paid?

cajunpatriot on August 23, 2013 at 8:44 AM

The main stream media does not want to spread the word that is put out by people like Cruz and others because it makes too much sense. Fund the government but defund obamacare. Obama will have to shut down the government but the government will be funded. What’s so hard to understand and why won’t the press tell the truth?

Pardonme on August 23, 2013 at 8:52 AM

Boehner and his “Brain Trust”, and I use that term loosely, have forgotten that THEY are supposed to be the Opposition Party, not a doppelgänger of the Democrat Party.

My Take.

kingsjester on August 23, 2013 at 8:55 AM

It ought to be phrased with relation to the number of “delays” that are in place and that funding will be withheld until those “delays” are resolved.

We don’t reward failure should be the catch phrase. Or something similar.

Then, as the delays continue, it eventually withers and dies. Well, until we can get a veto proof majority in both Houses and just replace it with something reasonable, such as removing the restrictions on cross state policy sales and tort reform. After all, I can get car insurance from the same company in all 50 states. Why can’t I get health insurance the same way?

Holding the government that is in the hands of the Dems accountable, though, is an uphill task, given the MSM’s failure to live up to its duty to the nation.

————
Obamacare isn’t about health care. It is about insurance. Let’s attack that venue and use “increasing health care availability for people” as the watch phrase.

But we know….nice thought…won’t happen.

ProfShadow on August 23, 2013 at 9:37 AM

There are still (surprisingly) people in the public who think obama is doing a good job.

Freeloader on August 23, 2013 at 9:51 AM

This poll and therefore Allahpundit’s set of options are bullsh~t. The poll asked respondents, “Do you favor shutting down the government as a way to defund the president’s health care law”. Congress was never asked to shut down government. It was asked to fund government, but not Obamacare. Once the continuing resolution to fund everything except Obamacare is approved, only a failure to pass it in the Senate or sign it by the executive shuts down government. Therefore, an accurate poll should ask “Do you favor shutting down the government in order to force Congress to fund Obamacare”. Whatever Republican commissioned this froudulent poll is aware of this. A child can see it!

If Republicans can’t manage to communicate this, to tell America that they have fully funded government except for the program that Americans never wanted and was promoted and passed fraudulently, we don’t need them. Republican’s only purpose will therfore be to corrupt constitutionalists and make progressive statism bipartisan and possible.

elfman on August 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM

Stand firm. No Obiecare funding. Period. Fund the military. Everything else needs 100% sequester.

TerryW on August 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM

The following is to laugh:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/08/23/obama-republicans-afraid-of-limbaugh

Who are Obysmal’s confidants? McCain, Graham, Boehner?

onlineanalyst on August 23, 2013 at 11:19 AM

Ted Cruz:

“The House should pass a continuing resolution that funds everything in the federal government except Obamacare”, he began. The next step would involve Obama and Reid (and their willing accomplices in the media) “screaming and yelling that the mean, nasty Republicans are threatening to shut down the government. And at this point he suggested we would have to “do something that conservatives haven’t done in a long time.”

“We’ve got to stand up and win the argument, Cruz insisted. “We’ve got to stand up and say, no. We have voted to fund the government, we don’t want to shut down the government. Why is President Obama threatening to shut down the government? President Obama has already granted waivers to giant corporations. Why is President Obama threatening to shut down the government in order to deny those same waivers to hardworking American families? I think that’s an argument we can win if only Republicans can find the courage to stand up, stand together and make it.”

Pretty basic — fighting to win. It’s what the RINOs can’t comprehend and/or causes them to wet their pants — the idea of taking this fight to the Left and media.

rrpjr on August 23, 2013 at 12:13 PM

The repubs should pass a FULL budget hell even give in on the sequester cuts but CUT ELIMINATE Ocare. That will still generate a bigger savings than any current repub cuts now or past and it will put the ball in O’s court.

If the repubs cannot go out the day after the vote on every radio, tv, x gathering and explain THE CONGRESS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PURSE AND MAKING IT WORK that they fully funded all the programs and voided the sequester but now its up to the president and his party to decide whats more important all the needs of the people or their own personal and special interest groups via Ocare.

Make them shut it down.

repubs need to get the balls to play or go home

C-Low on August 23, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Why is it so hard for you to see that you are spreading a false narrative?!

Conservatives are not voting “to shut down the government!”

They are voting to fund the government, but not to fund OCare.

That is a distinction that continues to escape you. But it is a critical distinction.

The only other choice is to go on record as voting FOR ObamaCare!

That is the box the GOP is allowing itself to be trapped into by cowards.

Any shutdown of government would be at the hand of Obama.

If you want to talk about POLLS, then, please INCLUDE all those polls which show that the people overwhelmingly oppose ObamaCare!

mountainaires on August 23, 2013 at 6:12 AM

First off, your premise is incorrect. HA/AP in particular, aren’t failing to see the false narrative – they’re intentionally helping push it. They don’t *want* the actual conservative narrative to be promoted, they *want* the GOP establishment line – which coincides with the Dem line perfectly – to be promoted.

Midas on August 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM

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