Father confronts Christie on medical marijuana: “Please don’t let my daughter die”

posted at 4:41 pm on August 15, 2013 by Allahpundit

A bill’s been sitting on his desk for more than a month that would make it easier for kids in Jersey to have medical marijuana prescribed to them. The fact that he hasn’t signed it yet, even though MM’s already legal in the state and the new bill was passed by a Democratic legislature, is all the proof you need that he’s thinking about running for the Republican nomination in 2016. Even Rand Paul knows better to go full-bore libertarian on this subject while facing a GOP electorate: He wants the feds to back off on drug laws, but he’s described marijuana use as “not healthy” and back in 2010 he apparently told the AP that he doesn’t support legalizing marijuana even for medicinal purposes. Given that the party, especially the younger voters he covets, has moved a bit towards libertarianism since then, Paul might be a little bolder on some form of legalization in the primaries. The dilemma for Christie is, should he be bolder too to make a play for centrists of both parties? Or is he better off being Mr. Establishment and spiking any type of legalization? It’s enough of a boutique issue that it probably doesn’t matter much either way, but if Christie’s looking to build a brand as a “new kind of Republican” (as is Paul, ironically), maybe he signs the bill.

Christie told the girl’s father that he’ll decide by Friday. By the way, if the term “Dravet Syndrome” sounds familiar to you, that’s because it’s the same illness that the little girl had who was spotlighted in Sanjay Gutpa’s much-praised recent documentary on marijuana. A specific type of cannabis is the only treatment that appears to provide any relief from hundreds of seizures a day.


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After thinking about the last several threads (within a two month period) on this subject, I’m going to claimed I’ve “evolved.”

It should be legalized ONLY on the pretense that ANY employer or landlord may LEGALLY choose to discriminate against users, in their hiring policies and renting/leasing criteria.

That’s NOT negotiable … period.

listens2glenn on August 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM

HUGE if you’ve evolved!! Because I think I took part in some of those threads, and I do remember you being on the other side of the issue.

There’s likely a better answer than “locking em all up”. Maybe drug abuse should be an education and health issue as opposed to criminal? Again, I have to turn to Portugal where decriminalization of ALL drugs has led to a decrease in drug addiction, especially heroin, click for a ton of videos on the Portugal case: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=portugal+drug+decriminalization

anotherJoe on August 15, 2013 at 9:15 PM

astonerii on August 15, 2013 at 9:13 PM

I have three friends who suffer from them. One so bad they had to sit in a dark closet to endure them. Its worked for all three. Yes it takes some good things out of life but I have seen it work when adhered to. If you do it, do it. Let me know if it works.

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Sorry for the poor formatting.

Well people have tried science. They’ve tried reason. They’ve tried organizing and marching. They’ve tried phone calls and letters. They’ve tried town halls. They have tried every possible avenue to bring across the facts about the ridiculousness of prohibition. So what is left? Appealing to sympathy for the family. Something that has worked in American politics for over a hundred years (and something social conservatives are quite familiar with). This man probably can grow marijuana. However, he would like to not be arrested and charged with a crime as that will not help his child. What, exactly, is this man supposed to do?

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 5:37 PM

Or, instead of whipping it out for a rod measuring contest with the imaginary foes in your head, one might choose to seek a change in the law……

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 9:01 PM

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:17 PM

I thought he tried that?

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM

The irony.

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM

After thinking about the last several threads (within a two month period) on this subject, I’m going to claimed I’ve “evolved.”

It should be legalized ONLY on the pretense that ANY employer or landlord may LEGALLY choose to discriminate against users, in their hiring policies and renting/leasing criteria.

That’s NOT negotiable … period.

listens2glenn on August 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM

Should employers be able to discriminate against people who have used at all within 30 days, or are they allowed to screen if workers are coming to work high, which can be done with a blood test. Currently, workers are not fired if they drink at home, but if they come to work inebriated (depending on the gig) their work is effected. How about making it that employers can only discriminate if THC is active in the blood?

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 9:19 PM

I just gave my signature for the proposed medical marijuana legalization constitutional amendment aimed at the 2014 ballot here in Fl.

bazil9 on August 15, 2013 at 9:20 PM

I thought he tried that?

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM

The irony.

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM

And he is continuing to in this direct appeal to the Governor. He has chosen to spectacularize the plight of his daughter by making a media moment. When I said “what else is he meant to do” I meant “what else is he to do that will not threaten his access to his daughter.” Sorry I didn’t realize NotCoach was going to cavalierly declare how easy it is to just throw that away for principle.

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 9:20 PM

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:14 PM

He’s like a hamster on his wheel, isn’t he?

NotCoach on August 15, 2013 at 9:26 PM

And the people who are leading the criticism of Russell Simmons…African Americans and not the GOP. Sound familiar?

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Why yes, as a matter of fact. It sounds like every other lie you’ve posted here since the last open registration.

Dunedainn on August 15, 2013 at 9:31 PM

I may be taking you out of contest. Have you tried the Migraine Diet thingy?

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Ah, yes, I have actually done this. I thought it was a diet diet.
I have allergic reactions to ham, sometimes sausage, and pork chops. More of the digestive allergies though.
I gave up cheese for about three months to no benefit and have paid close attention to my meals/migraines for years. I count calories which includes full ingredient lists (bulk ingredients, not micro, such as carbs, protein and fats.), measure blood pressure, take glucose readings, track headaches in an excel datasheet. None of it points to anything and was not even used by the VA at all in determining my migraines.
I do know what started the migraines to a high degree of likelihood. When I was in Okinawa, we deployed to the Philippines for several months. The docs gave us the pills for Malaria in reverse of what they should have been. There were a couple dozen of us that got malaria. I apparently got the one that attacks the brain. I was admitted to the Kadena hospital with a fever of 106.5 while having two IVs running full open riding in the back of an open Humvee. They iced me, and damn did that hurt!
let the attacks begin.

astonerii on August 15, 2013 at 9:38 PM

After thinking about the last several threads (within a two month period) on this subject, I’m going to claimed I’ve “evolved.”

It should be legalized ONLY on the pretense that ANY employer or landlord may LEGALLY choose to discriminate against users, in their hiring policies and renting/leasing criteria.

That’s NOT negotiable … period.

listens2glenn on August 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM

You should really reconsider that. The welfare state has absolutely no limit on the number of them it will allow to strip your pockets bare.
That is my line in the sand, but i agree with you that companies should be allowed to discriminate against users.

astonerii on August 15, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Sorry I didn’t realize NotCoach was going to cavalierly declare how easy it is to just throw that away for principle.

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 9:20 PM

I’m sorry, I took it as you throwing it out.

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:52 PM

NotCoach on August 15, 2013 at 9:26 PM

I have never owned a hamster. Say……is that racist?

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:53 PM

I have never owned a hamster. Say……is that racist?

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:53 PM

Probably. I give you a lifetime ban from Missouri rodeos.

NotCoach on August 15, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Ah, yes, I have actually done this. I thought it was a diet diet.
astonerii on August 15, 2013 at 9:38 PM

My understanding of it from my friends was that it took quite some time to explore the possible food culprit. The key to it was cracking the code as to which. Then holding true to that pattern. Oh well sorry you had no luck with it. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of it. Seems so many are not.

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:58 PM

I’ve “evolved.”
listens2glenn on August 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM

In some sense, this is to be expected of people now, because the arguments, the logic, is on our side. That’s why the numbers are changing, especially even among conservatives. That’s why even Tom Tancredo backed legal mj in CO.

What are these arguments?

I’m going to look at the wider issue of the entire drug war, because if the drug war itself is considered ridiculous, it follows that mj amd certainly medical mj should be legal.

The point is often made that “drugs are bad, but the cure (police state) is worse than the disease.” Yes, except an even more compelling point is this: that “Nixon’s” war is counterproductive, that the costly brutal war perversely / paradoxically increases drug use (consider the Portugal case). So, if this true, the war is completely irrational, in fact, nonsensical. At best the costly brutal war decreases drug use only marginally.

Here are some additional effective arguments, not my words, but snippets I found around the web (from comments mostly) that I had previously brought up on a qotd thread:

Marijuana prohibition has failed, it’s time to accept this. Anecdotal cases of unmotivated potheads do not demonstrate a threat to society, even when their problems go beyond drug use.

The drug war is one of the biggest assaults on personal liberty and public order there is in society; it has turned peace officers into soldiers, the Fourth Amendment into a dead letter, and generally wrecked havoc.

Thousands of lives have been lost or ruined and it’s devastating societies all across the globe. As the “war” escalates, illegal profits skyrocket, further increasing the motive to supply. I am daily stricken by the futility, absurdity and unfairness of this monumental blunder. Never in the field of human conflict have so many been jailed and had their lives ruined for so little positive result.

anotherJoe on August 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM

I’m getting the impression Christie is a powerful mad megalomaniac that hoards food.
I wonder if crap hammer will say Christie stands athwart the buffet or something.

Crap hammer said Obama stands athwart blah blah blah.

SparkPlug on August 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM

NotCoach on August 15, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Ah HeII, I didn’t see much wrong with funning 0 with the mask. I used to think it was good form not to mock them. Then after being mocked for years , I decided, screw it mock the crap out of em! Folks say, Bmore you should be above all that, decorum and whatnot. Yeah, No. Lol! ; )

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 10:02 PM

A specific type of cannabis is the only treatment that appears to provide any relief from hundreds of seizures a day.

I call BS:

“The following medications have been shown to benefit patients with Dravet syndrome:[40]

divalproex sodium and derivatives (Depakote, Depakene,Epilim, Epival, Micropakine)
topiramate (Topamax)
stiripentol (Diacomit)
clobazam (Frisium, Urbanyl)
clonazepam (Klonipin, Rivotril)
levetiracetam (Keppra)
bromides”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravet%27s_syndrome#Treatment.2FManagement

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1318/

There is no such thing as a medical condition that is only treated, or even best treated, by THC. That is all just a pack of lies manufactured by people who want recreational use of THC to be legalized.

I am libertarian, so I think THC should be de-criminalized to the point of being a fine, like a traffic ticket. That would effectively tax it and make it profitable to write tickets, while keeping people out of jail. In California pot is already essentially legal since anyone can get a medical card, which just goes to show what a joke medical marijuana really is. If you don’t have a card, though, it is just a fine.

kaltes on August 15, 2013 at 10:04 PM

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Hey Sweet cheeks. It might be time to drain the fluid from your goiter brain before you float away into the cesspool from whence you dredged your last leech loaded meal.

SparkPlug on August 15, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Omg. Someone wore an Obama clown mask. Code pink might have a menstrual malfunction and make some new head bands.

SparkPlug on August 15, 2013 at 10:12 PM

anotherJoe on August 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Quit making sense, AJ. (;

bazil9 on August 15, 2013 at 10:15 PM

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:58 PM

My distrust and animosity towards doctors probably comes out in this…

Because doctors do not profit from people making lifestyle changes which make them healthy.

Sorry, but one of the reasons I have the migraines is because the corpsmen at our base medical building determined that the fevers I was having daily for weeks were faked. So instead of treating me for Malaria, they offered a motrin which they knew I was allergic to and sent me to my barracks. As if I was trying to shirk my duties. I was the only one that went in to work over weekends to do the work other Marines were too damned lazy to get done as their area of responsibility so we would pass inspections.

astonerii on August 15, 2013 at 10:16 PM

kaltes on August 15, 2013 at 10:04 PM

The compound effective in treating Dravet’s Syndrome is C*B*D, not T*H*C. The strain of marijuana was developed by 6 brothers who devoted years and $$ to it. It is very low in T*H*C and relatively high in C*B*D.

I can only hope this post doesn’t get moderated into oblivion as my earlier one did.

novaculus on August 15, 2013 at 10:35 PM

novaculus on August 15, 2013 at 10:35 PM

Yay! Finally! Lolz!

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM

Bmore on August 15, 2013 at 9:14 PM

He’s like a hamster on his wheel, isn’t he?

NotCoach on August 15, 2013 at 9:26 PM

…I think that hamster…is busy… somewhere else…

KOOLAID2 on August 15, 2013 at 10:48 PM

The story within a story here is that the Democrat mayor of Scotch Plains, NJ (where the parents of the sick child in question live) has endorsed the Republican Christie in his reelection campaign for Governor.

More and more, Chris Christie is making buddies with all the politicians on the left, while alienating his base on the right.

http://thealternativepress.com/towns/scotch-plains-slash-fanwood/articles/democrat-mayor-glover-endorses-gov-christie

Right Mover on August 15, 2013 at 10:54 PM

Right Mover on August 15, 2013 at 10:54 PM

…he looks like a Democrat…so why not?

KOOLAID2 on August 15, 2013 at 11:03 PM

Currently, workers are not fired if they drink at home, but if they come to work inebriated (depending on the gig) their work is effected. How about making it that employers can only discriminate if THC is active in the blood?

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 9:19 PM

.
Norfolk Southern employees can will be fired for a positive test of alcohol, blood or urine. At one of their hiring sessions, we were told emphatically that NS uses the same “substance abuse” testing that the U.S. Secret Service and FBI use for their employees.
Ain’t no way you’re going to “cheat” it.

I believe ALL employers should be able to decide for themselves how strict of a policy they’re going to institute for their ‘Human Resources’.

If a particular employer believe’s that an employee’s use of “mind-altering substances” doesn’t affect their job performance in whatever it is that they do, then that employer should be free to hire such, if they want to.

listens2glenn on August 15, 2013 at 11:04 PM

Can you imagine the Democrats falling all over themselves if the GOP came out for the legalization of pot? It’s their core constituency the GOP would be helping.

Tater Salad on August 15, 2013 at 11:27 PM

The point is often made that “drugs are bad, but the cure (police state) is worse than the disease.”

anotherJoe on August 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM

.
My contention with that logic is that it only applies to a “God recognizing” moral society.

In a Godless society, a Police State is not axiomatically worse than a “Libertarian, anything-goes, if-it-feels-good-do-it” state.

listens2glenn on August 15, 2013 at 11:29 PM

Christie is statist filth. F**k him and his desire to run other people’s lives. He sees weed as no different than firearms…a liberty at his discretion. F**k that fatass progressive.

MadisonConservative on August 16, 2013 at 1:01 AM

There is no such thing as a medical condition that is only treated, or even best treated, by THC.

kaltes on August 15, 2013 at 10:04 PM

It’s not a matter of “only or best” treated. Marijuana has numerous anti-inflammatory and pain relief properties that work far more quickly and efficiently than most other pharmaceuticals. Whether or not you can handle that is irrelevant to the facts.

MadisonConservative on August 16, 2013 at 1:02 AM

A specific type of cannabis is the only treatment that appears to provide any relief from hundreds of seizures a day.

Where is the documented study regarding this claim?

Absurd numbers of people make up so many urban legends to justify illegal behavior.

Freddy on August 16, 2013 at 1:35 AM

Captain Chris Munchies would clearly find decriminalized marijuana too tempting, so he’s averse to signing any bill making it easier for anyone to use.

He’d weigh 2000 lbs. if toking were taken away from the anedonic nanny government and left to a free citizenry to decide for themselves.

And, just like anything else, if you cause trouble (car accidents, playing music too loud too late, etc.) under the influence of it (or any other chemical or non-chemical distraction [texting, et al]) then you need to pay for your stupidity.

profitsbeard on August 16, 2013 at 2:00 AM

anedonic = anhedonic [above]

profitsbeard on August 16, 2013 at 2:01 AM

“As a physician, I believe that we ought to be doing drug treatment rather than incarceration.” -Tom Coburn, U.S. Senator from Oklahoma
“There is an urgent need to address the astronomical growth in the prison population.. and conservatives must lead the way in fixing it.” -Newt Gingrich
“Conservatives should lead the campaign to changing the culture of corrections in America.” -Ken Cuccinelli, Virginia Attorney General
When polls show that a majority of Americans want marijuana legalized, it’s puzzling that Chris Christie has to give so much cogitation to the no-brainer issue of medical marijuana.

anotherJoe on August 16, 2013 at 4:28 AM

Christie says the medical mj issue is very “complicated.” It’s not complicated. He is a former prosecutor and has fed at the [drug] prohibition trough and came back for seconds. He has been big on leftist causes like climate change and gun control, but seems hell bent on trying to also appear like an old style “authoritarian” Republican with medical mj and advocating NSA spying.

Christie’s views aren’t inconsistent, though. As Palin would say, to Christie it’s about big govt, and the prohibition of drugs and medical marijuana is all part of that.

anotherJoe on August 16, 2013 at 4:59 AM

When polls show that a majority of Americans want marijuana legalized, it’s puzzling that Chris Christie has to give so much cogitation to the no-brainer issue of medical marijuana.

anotherJoe on August 16, 2013 at 4:28 AM

.
Even if polls showed that a majority of Americans didn’t agree with it being legalized, it just makes total sense to make it legally available by prescription, in some pharmaceutically produced form.

listens2glenn on August 16, 2013 at 8:38 AM

Sad – this is just another media hype diversion story of no merit, and here are the 3 points (just off the top of my head and before my second cup of coffee) as to why:
1) Allahpundit pointed out that this was the same disease that Sanjay Gupta’s documentary on marijuana. Coincidence – I don’t think so.
2) The (ignorant, stupid, confused) father inferred that using medical marijuana would ‘not let my daughter die’ – even though there is NO cure for the disease – so he apparently can’t even differentiate between treating a symptom and a cure.
and
3) You all are arguing over the legalization of/not of marijuana et al without even touching either of the more salient (and real) points of this stupid, vapid video.
To infer that this child is not receiving treatment, that there are not seizure reducing/stopping medications or alternative medications – shows just how gullible and ignorant Americans are becoming.
If – as pointed out – welfare for the able bodied, Obamaphones and subsidies for 99% of whatever ’cause’ du jour were discontinued at the exact same moment marijuana use was treated just like alcohol (driving impaired, ‘straw’ buying for minors et al) I’d support removing it from the illegal substance list. But Congress has an annoying and long history of allowing the latter without doing the prior. So no – for now – from here.

jackal40 on August 16, 2013 at 9:10 AM

Where is the documented study regarding this claim?

Absurd numbers of people make up so many urban legends to justify illegal behavior.

Freddy on August 16, 2013 at 1:35 AM

For people like you, I’m betting that no documented study would matter.

Amazing how so much of the populace has been brainwashed into hating a goddamned plant.

MadisonConservative on August 16, 2013 at 10:00 AM

The dad is grandstanding. Pot will not be the difference between the girl living or dying. I am also very doubtful that pot is the only treatment (or even the best one).

krome on August 16, 2013 at 10:02 AM

This is the case of Dravet featured on CNN the other night with Dr. Shackelford of Harvard Med: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH5yzEu3JGQ

grantg on August 16, 2013 at 10:25 AM

After thinking about the last several threads (within a two month period) on this subject, I’m going to claimed I’ve “evolved.”

It should be legalized ONLY on the pretense that ANY employer or landlord may LEGALLY choose to discriminate against users, in their hiring policies and renting/leasing criteria.

That’s NOT negotiable … period.

listens2glenn on August 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM

…My only issue with this is: Can Employers and Landlords currently legally discriminate against those that use alcohol?

and (so two issues, I guess) what does enforcement look like? Would you subject individuals to undue process to find out if they were smoking? and what if they weren’t smoking in their apartment, but got home from a party, and were loud, and woke a neighbor, and now the Landlord or rental company wants to throw a Whiz-quiz.

I understand the basis of these arrangements is a voluntary legally binding agreement, but…Too Slippery a Slope.

I’m mostly an “All or None” guy. This smacks of our current Colorado legislation restricting “Magazine Capacity” …nothing more than a ticking clock. (not to mention stupid…I can kill you just the same with a S&W 687, Colt M1911A1, or Glock 17, whatever the clip size. …although Glock sucks…but I digress.)

(full disclosure: Yes, I am pro-legalization, Marijuana AND high-cap mags. My only exemptions on weed legalization stray into the ‘Public roadways’ and ‘Child welfare’ area, same as alcohol.)

My argument to Marijuana legalization is this: The Government should never have gotten into the Public Healthcare habit of treating self-caused illnesses in the first place…so it should never have concerned itself with Marijuana use, or alcohol use, or tobacco use, or extra-large soda, or salt, ..etc

basically, nothing is good for you, literally. Nobody’s making it off this rock alive. It’s none of the Government’s business what you do while you’re here. (This with the caveat that “Your right to swing your arm, ends at *my* nose.”)

a5minmajor on August 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM

Oh, and I forgot to mention…Christie sucks.

He’s Ann Coulter in a fat man-suit. Just because you can yell something more loudly at someone, doesn’t mean you’re right…it just makes you obnoxious and boorish.

a5minmajor on August 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM

…My only issue with this is: Can Employers and Landlords currently legally discriminate against those that use alcohol?

a5minmajor on August 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM

.
Transportation companies currently can. But from what I can discern, that’s it.
.

… and (so two issues, I guess) what does enforcement look like? Would you subject individuals to undue process to find out if they were smoking? and what if they weren’t smoking in their apartment, but got home from a party, and were loud, and woke a neighbor, and now the Landlord or rental company wants to throw a Whiz-quiz.

I understand the basis of these arrangements is a voluntary legally binding agreement, but…Too Slippery a Slope.

a5minmajor on August 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM

.
Enforcement by employer would be a blood and/or piss test.

listens2glenn on August 16, 2013 at 3:50 PM

a5minmajor on August 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM

.
Enforcement by employer would be a blood and/or piss test.

listens2glenn on August 16, 2013 at 3:50 PM

.
hitting a certain key on my keyboard, posted that before I was ready. Continuing :

Employees who experience a “positive” drug test, should be able to file an appeal with local judiciary.

Same thing for landlord/tenant disputes. I believe landlords have to give tenants at least a months notice in all evictions, so that would give them time to file an appeal, or even get a “stay” on the eviction.

listens2glenn on August 16, 2013 at 3:58 PM

I’m mostly an “All or None” guy. This smacks of our current Colorado legislation restricting “Magazine Capacity” …nothing more than a ticking clock. (not to mention stupid…I can kill you just the same with a S&W 687, Colt M1911A1, or Glock 17, whatever the clip size. …although Glock sucks…but I digress.)

(full disclosure: Yes, I am pro-legalization, Marijuana AND high-cap mags. My only exemptions on weed legalization stray into the ‘Public roadways’ and ‘Child welfare’ area, same as alcohol.)

My argument to Marijuana legalization is this: The Government should never have gotten into the Public Healthcare habit of treating self-caused illnesses in the first place…so it should never have concerned itself with Marijuana use, or alcohol use, or tobacco use, or extra-large soda, or salt, ..etc

basically, nothing is good for you, literally. Nobody’s making it off this rock alive. It’s none of the Government’s business what you do while you’re here. (This with the caveat that “Your right to swing your arm, ends at *my* nose.”)

a5minmajor on August 16, 2013 at 12:03 PM

.
Problem ……. Using mind altering chemicals for “recreational pleasure” can and does present a negative impact on those around you. We’ve already proven that, with alcohol.

Also, the right to use mind altering chemicals for “recreational pleasure” can NOT be compared to the Second Amendment’s guarantee of an armed citizenry, which serves a valid practical purpose. The purpose being, making government and criminal perpetrators afraid of us. If they refuse to be afraid of us, then they face the consequences.

Where you and I agree, is the government treating sane persons for “self-inflicted” conditions.

However, a discaimer is necessary for persons believed NOT to be in their ‘right mind’.

listens2glenn on August 16, 2013 at 4:15 PM

I don’t need fat boy’s permission for that…or anything else, for that matter.

LizardLips on August 16, 2013 at 5:41 PM

What a crazy country we live in, where pot is illegal, but I have 20 oxys behind a bathroom mirror and it’s no big deal.. you tell me which one is more addictive..

triple on August 16, 2013 at 6:06 PM

After thinking about the last several threads (within a two month period) on this subject, I’m going to claimed I’ve “evolved.”

It should be legalized ONLY on the pretense that ANY employer or landlord may LEGALLY choose to discriminate against users, in their hiring policies and renting/leasing criteria.

That’s NOT negotiable … period.

listens2glenn on August 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM

I have stated this myself but not as well as you have here.

I would be all for it as long as I dont have to work next to a person who is stoned off their backside.

watertown on August 16, 2013 at 7:56 PM

What a crazy country we live in, where pot is illegal, but I have 20 oxys behind a bathroom mirror and it’s no big deal.. you tell me which one is more addictive..

triple on August 16, 2013 at 6:06 PM

.
The “oxys” you’re referring to are by prescription only.
NOBODY … disagrees with marijuana being used medically, under an MD’s supervision.
Okay … except Chris Christie.

listens2glenn on August 17, 2013 at 12:01 AM

Problem ……. Using mind altering chemicals for “recreational pleasure” can and does present a negative impact on those around you. We’ve already proven that, with alcohol.

listens2glenn on August 16, 2013 at 4:15 PM

Tell me the negative impact marijuana causes on those around you. I want to hear this, because I use it on a regular basis, as a professionally employed, married, active citizen with no criminal record.

MadisonConservative on August 17, 2013 at 11:49 AM

I’m curious what people have to say to my coworker and friend who uses weed to alleviate the pain of his gout(as opposed to the pills that cost him over 100 bucks a month, and that’s WITH insurance), or to me using it to alleviate the pain of my diverticulosis and IBD(for which every health professional has told me simply to change my diet and exercise…thanks a bundle).

MadisonConservative on August 17, 2013 at 1:38 PM

How about making it that employers can only discriminate if THC is active in the blood?

libfreeordie on August 15, 2013 at 9:19 PM

How about making it part of a freely negotiated contract between the employer and the employed? And between the landlord and the renter?

If I were an employer whose business used heavy machinery, I would not want anyone with a hint of THC — whether in their blood or elsewhere — operating machinery or performing any intellectual work on my premises.

I suppose a pot shop owner might feel differently, but I’m betting that even they would draw the line at operation of motor vehicles or even programming their website whilst high.

Now, if we make it a freely negotiated contract, then how do I, as a private citizen out on the street, prevent guys who are high from operating motor vehicles and such? If it works the same as how we do alcohol, then I want no part of it.

http://www.spotswoodboro.com/policebriefs.html

http://triboro.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/man-arrested-allegedly-with-marijuana-on-sweatshirt

9 year old son in car:

http://www.myimprov.com/arizona-police-cracking-down-on-driving-high/

Killed the other driver:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/driver-who-smoked-cannabis-and-got-behind-the-wheel-killed-much-loved-family-man-don-peel-court-hears/story-fni0fee2-1226688353383

unclesmrgol on August 17, 2013 at 3:45 PM

MadisonConservative on August 17, 2013 at 11:49 AM

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MadisonConservative on August 17, 2013 at 1:38 PM

.
Is marijuana much less mind-altering than I’m giving it discredit for? If so, then I’ll stand corrected.
Has marijuana use not not been the cause of “under-the-influence” related vehicle accidents?
If people use marijuana, instead of alcohol, would that reduce the number of “domestic-dispute” calls that police have to respond to, due to one or BOTH persons being under-the-influence?

Reposting from a week ago:

I still claim it was responsible for the incapacitation of Ricky Gates.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-06-16/news/1993167057_1_marijuana-legalization-dangers-of-marijuana-alcohol-and-marijuana

I’m going to wear-out the use of this link, every time we have a marijuana thread

listens2glenn on August 8, 2013 at 11:39 PM

I’m pretty sure that I stated further up above, my belief that Marijuana should be made legally available for MDs to prescribe for patients like yourself, and your coworker.
I’ve no doubt that it is the best remedy for certain types of “pain management.”

listens2glenn on August 17, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Is marijuana much less mind-altering than I’m giving it discredit for? If so, then I’ll stand corrected.

Well, from the start, like alcohol, marijuana affects everyone differently. The main difference is you’ll be unlikely to find pot making someone violent. The effect is similar to alcoholic intoxication, but you have, arguably, far more control over your actions. You can become somewhat lethargic, but if a situation presents itself, it’s at a level where you can shake it off and do whatever is necessary. As I would describe it, it simply allows you to concentrate and think more profoundly. You ignore a lot more background noise, distractions, etc. Ultimately, like alcohol, it’s not for everyone, but I believe most people are capable of using it on a low to moderate basis and carry on a normal lifestyle. Sure, there are stoners who do nothing but smoke all day…but I don’t like those people whether they’re smoking or not, because the weed is just an excuse for their inherent laziness. It could just as easily be booze or anything else for those types.

Has marijuana use not not been the cause of “under-the-influence” related vehicle accidents?

Well, “yes”. I put quotes on that because the headline of the linked article is somewhat misleading. A French study claimed that marijuana increases the risk of a car accident, despite also showing that alcohol accounted for over 10x more accidents than marijuana. They claimed that the likelihood of being at fault in the accident increased as THC levels in the blood increased. This is not surprising, as the most heavy smokers are going to be constantly doing everything in a haze, just as with heavy drinkers. If you think that marijuana use would skyrocket many times after legalization, then this may be of concern to you.

If people use marijuana, instead of alcohol, would that reduce the number of “domestic-dispute” calls that police have to respond to, due to one or BOTH persons being under-the-influence?

listens2glenn on August 17, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Yes. Weed does not have a tendency to bring out violence in people, and in fact has the opposite effect, despite years of movies and TV shows outright lying about that fact. There have been people who have had mental illnesses such as depression and schizophrenia that have been worsened by use of the drug. However, I don’t think you’ll find a single legalization advocate who thinks it’s a good idea for people with severe mental illness to use it.

MadisonConservative on August 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Despite that the US population makes up just a small fraction of the worlds total population the US shockingly has over 25% of the worlds prison population.

Majority of US prisoners are non-violent offenders of victimless crimes (mostly possession of marijuana).

All the standard claims about how the US is made up of more evil, low life, criminals than all the other countries in the world are just false propaganda used to justify the world’s largest prison population and the failed war on drugs.

America on average has no more criminals per capita than any other nation. The outrageously large and expensive prison population is only do to the far stricter laws that require much longer prison sentences with its mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent, victimless drug offenses (mostly possession of marijuana).

1. The US incarcerates more people per capita than any other nation in the world. The natural rate of incarceration for most countries tends to stay around 100 prisoners per 100,000 residents.

The U.S. rate is 748 prisoners per 100,000 residents.

China is 120 per 100,000 residents
Saudi Arabia is 178 per 100,000 residents
Iran is 223 per 100,000 residents
Cuba is 331 per 100,000 residents
Russia 398 per 100,000 residents

2. Mass incarceration is not a result of higher crime rates but the imprisonment of non-violent offenders of victimless crimes (mostly possession of marijuana).

3. Mass incarceration is expensive: Imprisoning people is not cheap. The average cost of housing an inmate is approximately $30,000 to $50,000 per year.

The above data exposes a serious problem with the US war on drugs. The law is far more damaging to individuals and their families than marijuana.

Because of the “War on Drugs” the US has very strict laws compared to other nations and very high mandatory minimum prison sentences. Instead of community service, fines, or drug treatment – their sentenced to a mandatory prison term, by far the most expensive form of punishment.

Since 1980 the prison expansion has been primarily a result of “get tough” policies for the “war on Drugs”. A study from the Federal Bureau of Prisons concludes : ” the majority of those being held in federal prisons are convicted of drug offenses—namely, marijuana.” (nonviolent, victimless drug offenses)

Policies under the rubric of the “war on drugs,” like the expansion of mandatory sentencing and “three strikes” policies and cutbacks on parole release in many states are the cause of the US having the highest prison stipulation in the world.

JustTheFacts on August 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Despite that the US population…

JustTheFacts on August 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM

It’s bad enough that you do nothing but cut-and-paste spam across threads, but if you’re going to do so, can you at least check the goddamned grammar beforehand? Christ.

MadisonConservative on August 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM

JustTheFacts on August 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM

It is not victimless. Most of these people end up on forms of welfare, making me, a net tax payer, a victim.
Toss out the welfare state, allow me to administer any charity I think they deserve, along with a HUGE dish of moralizing and other coercive pressure to get them to change their ways or starve, and I can agree to not locking them up for it.

astonerii on August 18, 2013 at 8:42 PM

MadisonConservative on August 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM

.
Do you believe that the “accident” at Chase, MD was a rare exception?

Do you believe that marijuana wasn’t really responsible, but rather Ricky Gates used it as a “scape-goat”?

listens2glenn on August 19, 2013 at 1:37 AM

It is not victimless. Most of these people end up on forms of welfare, making me, a net tax payer, a victim.
Toss out the welfare state, allow me to administer any charity I think they deserve, along with a HUGE dish of moralizing and other coercive pressure to get them to change their ways or starve, and I can agree to not locking them up for it.

astonerii on August 18, 2013 at 8:42 PM

Wow.

a) Let’s just say I doubt the veracity of your claims here
b) The argument you just laid out is one for pure fascism – most people in general (pot smokers and abstainers alike) receive more government benefits than they pay in taxes, and so by this argument, every aspect of their behavior is open game for you, as you’re apparently a victim of any behavior or train to which you at the moment blame for their failure to pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits.
c) If you honestly believe this, I have no idea why you haven’t just jumped ship to the Dems.

galenrox on August 19, 2013 at 9:59 AM

Do you believe that the “accident” at Chase, MD was a rare exception?

Do you believe that marijuana wasn’t really responsible, but rather Ricky Gates used it as a “scape-goat”?

listens2glenn on August 19, 2013 at 1:37 AM

Honestly, I have no idea. I think using weed before operating any kind of motor vehicle or heavy machinery is a bad idea, the same as with booze, Nyquil, or anything else.

One way or another, however, the media has a long history of complete bulls**t when it comes to reporting on drugs. When the “bath salts” craze of stories was going on about a year ago, it was variously reported as “bath salts”, “LSD”, “angel dust”, and “magic mushrooms” in the various stories I heard, many of them about the same person. It’s Chrichton’s Gell-Mann Amnesia trying to read about drug-related incidents.

Ultimately, that’s one reason I think a number of drugs should be legalized – if only so that the public can be somewhat more informed about what drugs do and what the risks are. The longer they stay illegal, the longer people can continue to lie about them.

MadisonConservative on August 19, 2013 at 10:09 AM

MadisonConservative on August 19, 2013 at 10:09 AM

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I can’t disagree with you over the media BS (Barbra Streisand), or the ignorance of the public in general

I believe MDs should be allowed to legally prescribe it for medical use immediately. Retro-actively, if possible.

I’ve already stated that I’m for the general legalization of marijuana, on the contingency that ALL employers be given the legal option to discriminate against users in their ‘human resource’ policies.

Beyond repeating those two conditions, I don’t know what else to say.

listens2glenn on August 19, 2013 at 11:14 PM

I’ve already stated that I’m for the general legalization of marijuana, on the contingency that ALL employers be given the legal option to discriminate against users in their ‘human resource’ policies.

listens2glenn on August 19, 2013 at 11:14 PM

I would be fine with that, as long as the law requires employers to state that policy up front, as opposed to hiring somebody on for six months to do a job and then “suddenly” drug testing them. It’s the sort of thing that could be abused, in my opinion.

MadisonConservative on August 20, 2013 at 2:06 AM

I’ve already stated that I’m for the general legalization of marijuana, on the contingency that ALL employers be given the legal option to discriminate against users in their ‘human resource’ policies.

listens2glenn on August 19, 2013 at 11:14 PM

.
I would be fine with that, as long as the law requires employers to state that policy up front, as opposed to hiring somebody on for six months to do a job and then “suddenly” drug testing them. It’s the sort of thing that could be abused, in my opinion.

MadisonConservative on August 20, 2013 at 2:06 AM

.
? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ?
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IF . . . . . . . marijuana is legalized under this contingency, what would be the advantage to any employer to NOT be “up front” with their policy?
I can see a lot of dis-advantages to not being up front with it.
But I’m completely blind as to any reason that a given employer might not be.

listens2glenn on August 20, 2013 at 10:23 AM

listens2glenn on August 20, 2013 at 10:23 AM

The advantage would be hiring someone on under the pretense of a full-time, regular job…then getting their six months’ worth of work out of them and then suddenly drug testing and firing them, without paying out any other benefits and allowing them to hire on someone new. I have been seeing a lot of professional fields starting to hire people under the pretense of full-time jobs, only to bait-and-switch to use them as temps. I don’t know if it’s more due to ObamaCare making benefits too expensive, or if it’s just greed. Either way, it’s beginning to screw over a lot of talented, hard-working people.

MadisonConservative on August 20, 2013 at 11:12 AM

listens2glenn on August 20, 2013 at 10:23 AM

.
The advantage would be hiring someone on under the pretense of a full-time, regular job…then getting their six months’ worth of work out of them and then suddenly drug testing and firing them, without paying out any other benefits and allowing them to hire on someone new. I have been seeing a lot of professional fields starting to hire people under the pretense of full-time jobs, only to bait-and-switch to use them as temps. I don’t know if it’s more due to ObamaCare making benefits too expensive, or if it’s just greed. Either way, it’s beginning to screw over a lot of talented, hard-working people.

MadisonConservative on August 20, 2013 at 11:12 AM

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If marijuana is legalized on the terms I’ve laid out, then Employers would HAVE to be “upfront” about their HR policy. They couldn’t getaway with what you just described. If they’re not making prospects take drug tests at the out set, then they can’t get-away with springing it on anyone later.
It would be too easy to prove that they’re purporting a fraud.

listens2glenn on August 20, 2013 at 3:07 PM

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