Of back taxes and illegal immigrants

posted at 11:31 am on August 10, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Allahpundit already covered some of the lowlights from the big Obama presser yesterday, but there was plenty of political goodness to go around. Over at The Corner, Mark Krikorian took note of the last, really tough question which the President fielded before heading out to the Vinyards. It will come as no surprise that the hardball inquisition came from NPR, in a moment described by Iowahawk as, “Am I massaging your feet too vigorously, Your Majesty?”

The last question for the president at today’s press conference was on immigration. It wasn’t a challenging question, like “What do you say to skeptics of the Senate immigration bill who fear that the initial legalization won’t be followed up by enforcement?” or “What’s the rationale for doubling legal immigration when millions of Americans are out of work?” Instead, NPR’s White House correspondent lobbed a softball, ending with “What other political leverage can you bring to bear to help move a bill in the House?”

The author notes Obama’s somewhat puzzling answer about how such changes will lead to our economy being “a trillion dollars stronger.” Part of that, presumably, will be a result of currently “undocumented workers” paying back all of those taxes they should have been paying since arriving. But will they really have to under the current legislation? I was unaware of this particular wrinkle, but Krikorian points us to an article at Forbes from June by Kelly Phillips Erg which explains in painful detail why the bill is self-defeating in terms of ever seeing those tax dollars dropping into the government’s coffers.

Section 2101, Registered Provisional Immigrant Status. That’s the section that outlines the so-called “pathway to citizenship” for immigrants. I, of course, went straight to the tax provisions and was surprised to find that, despite the debate, the Senate appeared to punt on taxes. The section amends Chapter 5 of title II (8 U.S.C. 1255 et seq.) by inserting a new section 245B. At subparagraph (b) of that section, you’ll find the eligibility requirements and at subparagraph (c), you’ll find the application requirements. That’s where the good stuff – the tax piece – is at. It says:

An alien may not file an application for registered provisional immigrant status under paragraph (1) unless the applicant has satisfied any applicable Federal tax liability.

Sounds great, eh? But as the Forbes article notes (and it will be worth your time to wade through the legal jargon there, translated into human speak) the provision to “satisfy any applicable Federal tax liability” winds up meaning effectively nothing. The requirement can be cleared by a simple declaration filed by the person seeking qualified status. In order to catch up the “theoretical” dreamer who might be tempted to lie about their previous income, it will require the crack skills of the IRS to prove that there is an outstanding liability. And that must be proven regarding someone who, in nearly all cases, has never filed any tax documents. (To quote the author again, they’re not called “undocumented workers” for nothing.)

This portion of the proposed, comprehensive immigration reform is a sham, and that money is simply not going to show up. But nobody found it worthwhile to ask the President about it yesterday. More’s the pity.


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…that wasn’t a press conference!

KOOLAID2 on August 10, 2013 at 11:33 AM

…there were condoms…and lubrication involved!

KOOLAID2 on August 10, 2013 at 11:34 AM

…and I’m not going to do 28 today!…weather is too nice!

KOOLAID2 on August 10, 2013 at 11:34 AM

…the out door beckons!

KOOLAID2 on August 10, 2013 at 11:35 AM

…so Jazz!…I won’t do it to you again!

KOOLAID2 on August 10, 2013 at 11:36 AM

Ten minutes after Obama signs the amnesty bill, there will be a push to make the illegals citizens and dump any back taxes provisions. Calculating that money will be ‘unworkable and place an undue burden’. Liberals like Schumer and McCain will surely toss in the race card somewhere, too.

Liam on August 10, 2013 at 11:36 AM

…but!…then again!

KOOLAID2 on August 10, 2013 at 11:36 AM

…it’s all yours…Liam!

KOOLAID2 on August 10, 2013 at 11:37 AM

The author notes Obama’s somewhat puzzling answer about how such changes will lead to our economy being “a trillion dollars stronger.”

Obviously, once they become legal we’ll sign them up for the most effective stimulus plan known to man…..unemployment.

BobMbx on August 10, 2013 at 11:37 AM

If terrorists started chattering about the border would obozo close it down?

Flange on August 10, 2013 at 11:40 AM

The masses amaze me . . . they just sit quietly and smile while this left wing government sticks a four foot, hot poker up their collective butts.

rplat on August 10, 2013 at 11:43 AM

The requirement can be cleared by a simple declaration filed by the person seeking qualified status. In order to catch up the “theoretical” dreamer who might be tempted to lie about their previous income, it will require the crack skills of the IRS to prove that there is an outstanding liability. And that must be proven regarding someone who, in nearly all cases, has never filed any tax documents. (To quote the author again, they’re not called “undocumented workers” for nothing.)

Translation: The illegal signs a form or letter stating they don’t owe any taxes and the Zero regime just drops it.

This is just like so many other parts of the bill. It’s just amnesty with a lot of some and mirrors designed to camouflage the elite’s true intent.

dogsoldier on August 10, 2013 at 11:45 AM

The author notes Obama’s somewhat puzzling answer about how such changes will lead to our economy being “a trillion dollars stronger.”

There’s no puzzle. He lied. Importing an army of slave labor will destroy the middle class. Zero will say anything to guarantee a socialist supremacy in our government.

dogsoldier on August 10, 2013 at 11:49 AM

Sounds great, eh? But as the Forbes article notes (and it will be worth your time to wade through the legal jargon there, translated into human speak)

This seems to sum up your entire approach to writing and discourse. Maybe a JD is in your future.

Capitalist Hog on August 10, 2013 at 11:57 AM

Only GOP immigrants will need to pay these taxes.

faraway on August 10, 2013 at 12:00 PM

There’s no puzzle. He lied.

dogsoldier on August 10, 2013 at 11:49 AM

^^^

bazil9 on August 10, 2013 at 12:01 PM

There’s no puzzle. He lied. Importing an army of slave labor will destroy the middle class. Zero will say anything to guarantee a socialist supremacy in our government.

dogsoldier on August 10, 2013 at 11:49 AM

It’s the ol’ “top down, bottom up, inside out” theory at work. Cloward-Piven on steroids.

PatriotGal2257 on August 10, 2013 at 12:08 PM

They LIED in 1986. They’re LYING now!

GarandFan on August 10, 2013 at 12:20 PM

This portion of the proposed, comprehensive immigration reform is a sham,

Every portion of the proposed comprehensive immigration reform is a sham.

There is no real requirement for illegal aliens to pay back taxes. There is also no real requirement for them to learn English. All the proposed law requires is that they sign a form saying that they have enrolled in an English language class — there is no requirement that they prove they ever attended class, or that they ever learned a word of English.

There will also be no background checks for the millions of illegals who’ll be getting legal status. As we saw with Obama’s DREAM Act by executive order, the federal government does have the manpower or the political will to do background checks on millions of illegal aliens; they don’t even have the ability or desire to perform checks for hundreds of thousands of DREAM Act by EO applicants. DHS recently admitted (in a response to an FOIA request) that it is not doing any background checks on DREAMer applications, and in some cases, they’re not even bothering to get ID from the applicants before they stamp “approved” on their amnesty applications.

Every single bit of this is a scam.

AZCoyote on August 10, 2013 at 12:26 PM

The author notes Obama’s somewhat puzzling answer about how such changes will lead to our economy being “a trillion dollars stronger.”

Here’s the plan:

1. Legalize millions of unskilled, uneducated, poor foreigners with limited English, at a time when millions of skilled and unskilled Americans are unemployed and the U.S. economy is not creating jobs at a fast enough pace to keep up with natural population growth.

2. ……..?

3. Economy magically grows a trillion dollars stronger!

Obama’s not sure what step #2 entails, but it probably has something to do with Nancy Pelosi telling him that the best way to grow the economy is by putting more people on food stamps.

AZCoyote on August 10, 2013 at 12:33 PM

Only a liberal could ever believe that the payment of more taxes = a stronger economy.

Sharke on August 10, 2013 at 12:41 PM

The back EITC claimed after amnesty will greatly exceed any back taxes received.

agmartin on August 10, 2013 at 12:43 PM

3. Economy magically grows a trillion dollars stronger!

Obama’s not sure what step #2 entails, but it probably has something to do with Nancy Pelosi telling him that the best way to grow the economy is by putting more people on food stamps.

AZCoyote on August 10, 2013 at 12:33 PM

To statists like Obama, the more government spends, the better the economy. They see any increased and new spending as a sign of wealth, where for most people getting out of debt is the sign of it. People always have more money when they finish paying off a car loan or a mortgage. Statists like Obama see the State only, not reality.

Liam on August 10, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Trolls do as trolls do….not really much.

CW on August 10, 2013 at 12:54 PM

For anyone to think that we will see any significant collection of back taxes is hilarious. Troll you’re a joke.

CW on August 10, 2013 at 12:55 PM

These people suck and I won’t forget.

losarkos on August 10, 2013 at 1:03 PM

To statists like Obama, the more government spends, the better the economy. They see any increased and new spending as a sign of wealth, where for most people getting out of debt is the sign of it. People always have more money when they finish paying off a car loan or a mortgage. Statists like Obama see the State only, not reality.

Liam on August 10, 2013 at 12:47 PM

This whole immigration debacle is nothing but a plot to get a bunch more Democrat voters, nothing more. Hell it’s not even “Thinly veiled”. If I couldn’t see it unfolding before my eyes I could not even imagine that Republican pols would be so stupid as to buy into it. It’s like they’re offering to sharpen the blade of the guillotine that’s going to cut off their head after being forced to dig their own grave.

Oldnuke on August 10, 2013 at 1:11 PM

Everything said about this Bill is a lie.

pat on August 10, 2013 at 1:22 PM

Does anybody believe ANYTHING the government tells them (OK– maybe a few thousand recipients of “free” Obama cell phones, Shirley Jackson Lee and Marco Rubio)?

While everybody is focused on Obamacare (certainly an extremely serious problem), less attention is focused on the Amnesty problem which, in the short term, spells the end of the Republican Party, and in the long term, the end of the United state as we know it.

Actually I would nor be upset with the terms of the Amnesty agreement–Back of the line, 13 year wait, 20,000 new border guards, must pay back taxes, secure fence etc etc etc IF I DIDN’T KNOW WITH 100% CERTITUDE THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL RENEGE ON ALL PROMISES!!@!

.There will be no border fence
.The 20,000 border guards will become 20,000 taxpayer draining government loafers doing ANYTHING but guarding the border. Maybe they will be reassigned to assist the IRS to enforce Obamacare!
.There will be no waiting period.
.There will be no back taxes paid.

What there WILL be is a massive influx of new immigrants cashing in on the gravy resulting in a welfare and food stamp flood (much of it fraudulent) heretofore unseen overwhelming us economically and there WILL be a net gain of 30 million Democratic voters making it impossible to reverse this catastrophe.

MaiDee on August 10, 2013 at 1:23 PM

They are NOT immigrants, legal or illegal.

Only legal newcomers are “immigrants”.

Schadenfreude on August 10, 2013 at 2:11 PM

If amnesty passes Pelosi will take the hammer back in Jan. of 2015. YOU can buy lottery tickets based on this.

Schadenfreude on August 10, 2013 at 2:12 PM

Most will file only because the can get EIC credits. There will be a net loss in revenue.

aniptofar on August 10, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Indeed- this is the part of the plan that is unbelievably STUPID. We’re talking people who have mostly lived under the radar, working crappy jobs for crappy wages, living in ghetto housing to allow them to send money back home.

Suddenly now these same people who had no qualms about sneaking into the country, using the charity hospitals/emergency rooms for medical care, food banks/food stamps/any school benefits they could get without being outed as illegal – they are going to fess to up past income and pay appropriate taxes? And since they probably earned diddlely the amount of taxes they would have owed would be minimal. After you factor in the EIC and other credits we’ll probably end up owing them money.

Are we supposed to believe that there are thousands of illegal immigrants who are doctors and professional who earned big money and now will self-identify?

katiejane on August 10, 2013 at 3:25 PM

I also believe that, having been rewarded for shattering federal immigration law, and every other law they found inconvenient, these illegal aliens will not be willing to pay any taxes… period.. if they can wrangle a means of working under the table.

It’s worth noting that many of these illegal aliens are low skilled workers, even those who are part of the ‘DREAMer’ category, and routinely find means to work ‘tax free’.

The notion that suddenly this block of newly legalized individuals will step right up and become solid, tax paying, residents and/or citizens, is incredibly naive.

Further, for many, getting paid, via welfare and other benefits, to sit at home, and paid handsomely per child they have, each being a U.S. citizen and thereby entitled to full benefits, will be far more attractive than continuing to actually work for a living in any case.

With 83 separate means tested welfare programs, food stamps, and Obamacare… why should they?

thatsafactjack on August 10, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Everything said about this Bill is a lie.

pat on August 10, 2013 at 1:22 PM

It is, and the bill itself says they lie in black and white.

dogsoldier on August 10, 2013 at 6:41 PM

That Obama press conference was so boring: Obama just ran out the clock with long yawn producing answers to softball questions.

IMO the press is clearly intimidated, not just biased. Our imperial president should not be the one determining which journalist are allowed called upon to ask him a question. This should be down by a random generator of name-call of journalists – easy enough to set up. In the British parliamentary system the Prime Minister does not select the questioner. Better idea. Not that there is a chance of this sensibleness here. Our over-shielded presidents will always be isolated and fairly unaccountable wrt to answering real questions and they know it.

Non-transparent business as usual – contrary to Obama’s promises.

Chessplayer on August 11, 2013 at 9:28 AM