George Will: If he thinks libertarianism a “dangerous thought,” people may think Christie himself is “dangerous”

posted at 3:31 pm on August 4, 2013 by Erika Johnsen

The back-and-forth between Gov. Christie and Sen. Paul over foreign-policy fundamentals, initiated by Christie’s blanket brush-off of libertarianism in that arena as a “dangerous thought,” died down earlier this week — if only for a little while. As Allahpundit already noted, Christie has all kinds of reasons for wanting to keep this thing going and set himself apart from what many in New Jersey likely interpret Paul’s fringe-y national security views — but on ABC on Sunday, George Will made the point that he might want to tread a little more cautiously on that front due to its national context. Paul has been arguing that having these open discussions is a great way to attract young people to the party, and that it might not be a wise idea to dismiss the ideas out of hand — an argument that Will basically reiterated. Starting around the 7:30 mark:

There is a rising libertarian stream that Chris Christie has said is a very “dangerous thought,” so let’s be clear about what libertarianism is and what it isn’t. It is not anarchism, it has a role for government. What libertarianism says, it comes in many flavors and many degrees of severity. It basically says, before the government bridges the freedom of an individual, or the freedom of several individuals contracting together, that government ought to have, A, a compelling reason, and B, a constitutional warrant for doing so. Now, if Mr. Christie thinks that’s a “dangerous thought,” a number of people are going to start saying Mr. Christie himself may be dangerous.


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Indeed.

Christie might have it confused with Libertarianism.

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:34 PM

This is the stupidest article in the news today.

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:35 PM

1st

dom89031 on August 4, 2013 at 3:35 PM

You can see/listen here.

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:38 PM

Neera and Soledad are incredibly dumb chicks.

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:42 PM

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don’t each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are travelling the same path.

- Ronald Reagan, 1975

Ronald Reagan: Christie-convicted ‘Dangerous Thought’ Criminal

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 3:43 PM

I think there are a lot more Paul followers than the GOPe is capable of understanding, and George Will is sounding the alarm for them. The libertarian message is resonating with entire generations of younger people now, especially those of military age. They see their friends and relatives dying and being horribly maimed in what are becoming meaningless ‘wars’ overseas.

They see the ruling political class abandoning our soldiers to die needlessly, and wonder why the hell are we doing anything at all in the moslem world in the first place, and perceive only that we are just making matters worse by being over there.

GOPe should be listening, but they are not. They trash Palin, Paul, Cruz, West, or anyone with ideas that diverge from progressivism – this will be their downfall, and sadly, the downfall of our nation.

Harbingeing on August 4, 2013 at 3:43 PM

This is the stupidest article in the news today.

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Put this one in the ‘Stupid…AND DANGEROUS’ file:

Is ‘Non-Consensual Sex’ The Same As Rape? It Isn’t At Yale.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 3:44 PM

ouch. The image of Chris getting spanked hurts my eyes

r keller on August 4, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Christie is a raving anti-gun person. That alone should disqualify him for a run in 2016.

Johnnyreb on August 4, 2013 at 3:45 PM

[Libertarianism] basically says, before the government bridges the freedom of an individual, or the freedom of several individuals contracting together, that government ought to have, A, a compelling reason, and B, a constitutional warrant for doing so.

I thought that was basic, Constitutional thought that we were supposed to learn in grade school, not libertarianism.

rrpjr on August 4, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 3:44 PM

Indeed…and this

…all Jeantels, all the time…

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:49 PM

I thought that was basic, Constitutional thought that we were supposed to learn in grade school, not libertarianism.

rrpjr on August 4, 2013 at 3:45 PM

When we went to grade school it was. Nowadays not so much. I teach that to my children on a daily basis.

VegasRick on August 4, 2013 at 3:49 PM

What I’ve learned over these last years, seeing the Obama admin in action, from reading the HotGas, and other sources, yadda yadda ya, is, we should be very careful before we give power to the federal (and to a lesser degree of care more local) government. Very careful. If not giving them power is comparable to giving them the power … if it’s a wash … then DO NOT GIVE THEM THE POWER.

Be extremely wary of those whose typical solutions are to give the federal government more power.

Paul-Cincy on August 4, 2013 at 3:52 PM

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 3:44 PM

Indeed…and this

…all Jeantels, all the time…

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:49 PM

The righter probably be longs to the teachers onion.

VegasRick on August 4, 2013 at 3:52 PM

One thing that we can be certain of, judging by his op-eds, is that George Will would also strongly disagree with Christie simply rolling over and agreeing with everything to the letter with the leftists on global warming er climate change.

Contrast Christie and Rand Paul on climate change:

Chris Christie: “Climate change is real. When you have over 90 percent of the world’s scientists who have studied this stating that climate change is occurring and that humans play a contributing role it’s time to defer to the experts.”

Rand Paul: “[Scientists] are making up their facts to fit their conclusions. They’ve already caught them doing this.”

anotherJoe on August 4, 2013 at 3:54 PM

The back-and-forth between Gov. Christie and Sen. Paul over foreign-policy fundamentals, initiated by Christie’s blanket brush-off of libertarianism in that arena as a “dangerous thought,”

Elephant in the room: ISLAM is the problem. Until this is fundamentally understood and by everyone across the libertarian/neo-con spectrum as THE PROBLEM cannot be solved by either foreign policy approach. PC is destroying the nation.

Harbingeing on August 4, 2013 at 3:54 PM

The righter probably be longs to the teachers onion.

VegasRick on August 4, 2013 at 3:52 PM

That’s ‘wrighter’, Rick. I went to publit skoo too.

Harbingeing on August 4, 2013 at 4:00 PM

Elephant in the room: ISLAM is the problem. Until this is fundamentally understood and by everyone across the libertarian/neo-con spectrum as THE PROBLEM cannot be solved by either foreign policy approach. PC is destroying the nation.

Harbingeing on August 4, 2013 at 3:54 PM

For all of the chest-beating by neo-cons that ‘[They] are the inheritors of Reagan!’ they forget that Reagan wasn’t afraid to call the Soviet Union – all of it, not just the ‘radical sect’ – ‘The Evil Empire.’

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 4:02 PM

George must have seen Christie wearing blue-jeans at a baseball game

phreshone on August 4, 2013 at 4:02 PM

Indeed…and this

…all Jeantels, all the time…

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:49 PM

The Stupid, it burns.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 4:02 PM

The Stupid, it burns.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 4:02 PM

It does…they even used “cursive” in the article :)

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 4:05 PM

A man, a mensch and a real president

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 4:06 PM

a number of people are going to start saying Mr. Christie himself may be dangerous.

Yes, CC is a danger to doughnuts everywhere…..

CC is a fat, blithering idiot.

redguy on August 4, 2013 at 4:08 PM

Elephant in the room: ISLAM is the problem. Until this is fundamentally understood and by everyone across the libertarian/neo-con spectrum as THE PROBLEM cannot be solved by either foreign policy approach. PC is destroying the nation.

Harbingeing on August 4, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Islamists are the new Nazis……
Why do you think Russia is helping them out?
Russia also helped Hitler get going and pushed him to start WWII.
Russia is the new Soviet Union – much leaner, stronger and smarter.
They are using Islam to push the world to the brink….
Once Russia gets what it wants they will heap Islam on the rubbish bin.

redguy on August 4, 2013 at 4:11 PM

Once Russia gets what it wants they will heap Islam on the rubbish bin.

redguy on August 4, 2013 at 4:11 PM

It’s not much tolerated in Russia today…at least by Putin and the rest of the leaders.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Christie, McCain & Mz. Lindseybell, will all use the widows of 9/11 to rationalize spying on their fellow citizens but don’t think wide open borders and a disarmed populace might be an open invitation to terrorists. Somewhere along the line, we have allowed ourselves to be viewed as idiots and it needs to stop.

Cindy Munford on August 4, 2013 at 4:19 PM

That’s why it’s going to be CRUZ. He hits the sweet spot between the blimp and the wimp.

AmeriCuda on August 4, 2013 at 4:24 PM

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 3:44 PM

I learned a long time ago that you never report this kind of stuff to the school (even public high schools), you go directly to the police, do not pass go, do not collect $200, call the police.

Cindy Munford on August 4, 2013 at 4:24 PM

George Will stated my personal feelings to a T. Well done sir.

itsspideyman on August 4, 2013 at 4:27 PM

Thanks Shadenfruede enjoyed the vid.

celtic warrior on August 4, 2013 at 4:37 PM

I thought that was basic, Constitutional thought that we were supposed to learn in grade school, not libertarianism.

rrpjr on August 4, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Exactly. Sad, isn’t it?

John the Libertarian on August 4, 2013 at 4:37 PM

I thought that was basic, Constitutional thought that we were supposed to learn in grade school, not libertarianism.

[rrpjr on August 4, 2013 at 3:45 PM]

I’ll wave the Time Restricted Extemporaneous Speech card for Will. Libertarianism is not that but that is part of it. And while that is part of libertarianism, that is not exclusive to libertarianism.

Nothing Will said is untrue, and it is accurate within the narrow bounds of the point he wanted to make: Christie should take note that Libertarians the side with those who support the Bill of Rights.

Dusty on August 4, 2013 at 4:38 PM

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 3:44 PM
Indeed…and this
…all Jeantels, all the time…
Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 3:49 PM

Methinks the good Professor should see what the Autocomplete function on my iPhone comes up with some times. LOL

yesiamapirate on August 4, 2013 at 4:52 PM

Too many of the party “spokespeople” are too ready to give this round to Christie…

Good for you, George.

EastofEden on August 4, 2013 at 4:52 PM

Chris Danger

faraway on August 4, 2013 at 4:57 PM

One thing we canNOT have is people wearing dungarees! THAT is beyond the pale and I would join with Gov. Christie in a lw making egregious dungaree-wearing a felony.-G. Will

JFKY on August 4, 2013 at 4:59 PM

Geoge Will is a Ruling class republican first and ALWAYS…..a limited government Conservative in NO WAY.

The gop Beltway Cocktail party circuit must love him.

PappyD61 on August 4, 2013 at 5:00 PM

I suppose this is a good place to tack up this story as it relates to NSA data collection and the use of it. (NYT’s article)

The pressure on NSA will be continuous and relentless. The wall has already been cracked, so the precedent has been set. All that is required now is to twist, turn, manipulate and exaggerate the frame of logic for each succeeding case or need until, brick by brick, the whole wall is dismantled.

Dusty on August 4, 2013 at 5:03 PM

The litmus test for any poser that claims to be a “Conservative”?

Ask them if they think large parts of the Federal government should be dismantled starting with the DEFUNDING OF OBAMACARE…….by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

If they fail to answer “Yes’…..then they are NOT limited government Conservatives.

PappyD61 on August 4, 2013 at 5:05 PM

Paul has been arguing that having these open discussions is a great way to attract young people to the party, and that it might not be a wise idea to dismiss the ideas out of hand

Paul is right even though I don’t agree with some of the positions he has staked out. Having open discussion is far more productive to attracting voters than Christie’s method of just yelling at anybody who dares question the wisdom of the fat bastard. He probably screams at the person in McDonalds who asks if he wants the medium or large extra-value meal. He is as much a bully as the rat-eared coward he was dry humping on that beach last November.

Happy Nomad on August 4, 2013 at 5:06 PM

PappyD61 on August 4, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Yeah, but at least he is willing to say the truth rather than his preference. The rest of the establishment just treat the base like annoying children who haven’t a clue.

Cindy Munford on August 4, 2013 at 5:13 PM

GOP autopsy? Wow, the Left is pretty dang sure of themselves. Keep giving Christie, attaboys, Lefties.

Cindy Munford on August 4, 2013 at 5:21 PM

Ok, who’s the libertarian on “This Week?”

racquetballer on August 4, 2013 at 5:24 PM

…so…for a change…George knows more than baseball lately!

KOOLAID2 on August 4, 2013 at 5:25 PM

GOP autopsy? Wow, the Left is pretty dang sure of themselves. Keep giving Christie, attaboys, Lefties.

Cindy Munford on August 4, 2013 at 5:21 PM

The fat bastard has become the new John McCain. He will be lauded and supported up until the 2016 general election. At which time the left will turn on their morbidly obese water-carrier. And the bastard is too damned stupid to see it coming.

Happy Nomad on August 4, 2013 at 5:29 PM

I’m thinking about my comment above where I contrast Christie and Rand Paul on climate change, and I realize that Christie may try to soften his leftist positions on many issues to try to get the R nomination, but if he ever did win the presidency, he’d predictably pull a John McCain and be a virtual Democrat.

I think in particular about climate change, because of the way we saw him on stage really mocking skeptics, to paraphrase, he was saying “anybody that doesn’t believe in man made climate change is simply loony.” This shows the depth of his feeling, and he would probably saunter in to the presidency and push windmills etc, but even more “dangerous” is he’d likely get a coalition of Dems and just a few Repubs together to pass again the cap & trade bill that the Democratic House passed in 2009, which would have mandated 83% cuts in CO2 by 2050. That cap & trade bill would cause a virtual economic apocalypse.

To get the R nomination, Christie may say that he would be opposed to any future carbon tax or cap & trade, but these politicians don’t change their stripes. Look at McCain who got the R nomination after saying he had changed and was against amnesty. Right.

And if any of us here still believe the leftist tripe on climate change, I want you to watch just this three and half minute video, which exposes as bs the IPCC contention that there is a proven causal correlation between CO2 & temperatures: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK_WyvfcJyg&info=GGWSwindle_CO2Lag

anotherJoe on August 4, 2013 at 5:32 PM

Thank you, George Will.

onlineanalyst on August 4, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Happy Nomad on August 4, 2013 at 5:29 PM

Yes he will.

Cindy Munford on August 4, 2013 at 5:47 PM

Fat Man Christie to Americans: “shut up, Eat your Tofu and broccoli and get back to work”

roflmmfao

donabernathy on August 4, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Over eating is dangerous. Libertarian is what I am.

pat on August 4, 2013 at 6:00 PM

let’s be clear about what libertarianism is and what it isn’t. It is not anarchism, it has a role for government. What libertarianism says, it comes in many flavors and many degrees of severity. It basically says, before the government bridges the freedom of an individual, or the freedom of several individuals contracting together, that government ought to have, A, a compelling reason, and B, a constitutional warrant for doing so.

Gee George, I thought you were erudite. I guess you haven’t read any Murray Rothbard, the foremost libertarian theorist, or, on a lesser note, been over to Lewrockwell.com lately. There is a reason Robert Nozick titled his classic defense of libertarianism ANARCHY, STATE, AND UTOPIA.

Taken to its logical extreme, libertarianism is utopian anarchism, or, as the libertarians like to call it, anarcho-capitalism.

Moreover, Ron Paul’s foreign policy views, the ones derided by conservatives in 2012 as anti-American and insane, are classically libertarian. His son Rand’s views, the ones Christie calls “dangerous”, are not in any appreciable way different from Ron’s. You want a clear view of libertarian thinking on foreign policy and defense – take a trip over to Antiwar.com and browse around. They really like Israel over there.

The Truther movement has found a nice home among libertarians. Are those the young people Republicans need to bring into the party?

The libertarianism that Ronald Reagan extolled is a very different critter. Created by the likes of Barry Goldwater, Brent Bozell, and Frank Meyer from the wreckage of the Old Right and reconstituted for the Cold War, it is best explicated in Goldwater’s CONCIENCE OF A CONSERVATIVE. In short, Reagan’s libertarianism is conservatism, minus some of the social-con baggage that joined the party in the late 80′s. Ron and Rand Paul’s libertarianism is something very different.

Will should know better. He’s as much of a libertarian as is Chuck Schumer. In fact, he does know better – the libertarianism he describes in the latter half of the above quote is conservatism, not libertarianism.

I’m sorry. I like Rand Paul, and like much about his father, Ron. Their presence in the party is vital, and is an effective counterweight to the neocons and liberals-in-sheep’s-clothing who dominate the Republican Party. But the world is a dangerous place. America, and Western civilization for that matter is under attack, and libertarian ideas in this regard are “dangerous”. If my choice is to stand with Rand and win, or stick to tried and true conservative principles of national defense and lose, I’ll stand down.

Mr. Arkadin on August 4, 2013 at 6:13 PM

Once Russia gets what it wants they will heap Islam on the rubbish bin.

redguy on August 4, 2013 at 4:11 PM

It’s not much tolerated in Russia today…at least by Putin and the rest of the leaders.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2013 at 4:18 PM

So? The Soviets also fought against the Nazis with their right hand while their left hand was supporting and goading Hitler.

Nutstuyu on August 4, 2013 at 6:54 PM

Christie is a self-aggrandizing POS.

Hence, his bromance with the Lightbringer.

I’m sorry. I like Rand Paul, and like much about his father, Ron.

So do I. I just can’t get completely past RuPauls’ foreign policy naivete. Some of it, I actually have come to agree with.

98ZJUSMC on August 4, 2013 at 6:58 PM

George Will: Chris Christie Risks Coming Across as ‘Dangerous’ in Rand Paul Feud

Risks ???!!!! A leftist rhino RINO ****IS**** dangerous. Period.

TeaPartyNation on August 4, 2013 at 7:11 PM

Christie thinks freedom is dangerous. What more does one need to know?

As Allahpundit already noted, Christie has all kinds of reasons for wanting to keep this thing going and set himself apart from what many in New Jersey likely interpret Paul’s fringe-y national security views

Project much? Rand Paul is a realist (as are most Americans). Not a non-interventionist, not an isolationist, or even a “soft-isolationist” (as some despicable propagandists like to call it).

There is nothing more kooky, more nuts, more “fring-y,” or more dangerous than waging endless Islamic Theocracy-Building Wars.

But go ahead and keep pushing the Welfare-Warfare-Police State progs in the red jerseys, and enjoy losing the WH again, and again, and again…along with a complete obliteration of the liberties that made this country truly exceptional.

Rae on August 4, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Had so much respect for Christie when he came on the scene, the “take no prisoners” attitude, but now I think he’s a cheap suit, a big cheap suit.

hestrold on August 4, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Cindy Munford you are on a roll tonight. I really agree with your comment that we have allowed the establishment types to define us as idiots, and yes, it has got to stop.

mobydutch on August 4, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Christie is a Flabitarian.

profitsbeard on August 5, 2013 at 1:37 AM

a number of people are going to start saying Mr. Christie himself may be dangerous

Start George? Just start? Where have you been….?

Don L on August 5, 2013 at 8:11 AM

If you realize the degree to which Joe Lieberman played us as yokels sitting on his “I’m a conscientious moderate” fence, always ready to change his principles as fit his needs (Al Gore’s VP offer) then add the words “blustery bully” to that persona and you have Christie.

Both were manipulative opportunistic politicians that staked out the middle for maximum attention, and both knew how to milk every last atom of it. (How yokel-like we were to believe their shtick)

To his credit, Lieberman, a reliably orthodox Jew, never waivered on Israel.

Don L on August 5, 2013 at 8:21 AM

The transcriber missed that what George said was “abridges”, not “bridges”. It doesn’t make any sense otherwise.

Dexter_Alarius on August 5, 2013 at 9:05 AM

A man, a mensch and a real president

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2013 at 4:06 PM

Thanks man.

It’s good to remember a real Communicator.

dissent555 on August 5, 2013 at 9:10 AM