Quotes of the day

posted at 8:01 pm on August 2, 2013 by Allahpundit

***

“I think the other thing about it is that the old guard needs to realize they’re the ones that have been losing the last couple of elections,” Paul said. “If we want to win for presidency we have to compete in the states where we’re not competing. Precisely, up in the northeast and on the west coast where Republicans are basically on life support. We need to reach out with issues that may attract new people to the party.”…

Paul said he thinks there is a place within the Republican party for libertarians such as himself. He said that way of thinking, particularly when it comes to issues of privacy, can be used to attract young people to the GOP.

“Young people, they don’t really associate with Republicans on taxes and regulations. Not that they oppose us, they just don’t have any money so they don’t care much about those issues,” Paul said. “But they’ve all got a cell phone, they’re all on the internet, they’re all concerned about internet freedom and they’re concerned about privacy. And these are precisely issues where we can grow our youth vote.”

***

Libertarians are often dismissed as a mutant subspecies of conservatives: pot smokers who are soft on defense and support marriage equality. But depending on their views, libertarians often match up equally well with right- and left-wingers…

[A]t least two of the libertarian movement’s signature causes, school choice and drug legalization, are aimed at creating a better life for poor people, who disproportionately are also minorities. The primary goal of school choice — a movement essentially born out of a 1955 essay about vouchers by libertarian and Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman — is to give lower-income Americans better educational options. Friedman also persuasively argued that the drug war concentrates violence and law enforcement abuses in poor neighborhoods.

Libertarians believe that economic deregulation helps the poor because it ultimately reduces costs and barriers to start new businesses. The leading libertarian public-interest law firm, the Institute for Justice, which has argued Supreme Court cases for free speech and against eminent-domain abuse, got its start defending African American hair-braiders in Washington from licensing laws that shut down home businesses…

In 1975, Ronald Reagan saw a kinship between libertarians and his party: “If you analyze it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism,” he said.

***

Libertarianism once again appears to be on the rise, particularly among the young. But its alliance with the Republican establishment is fraying, as demonstrated by the increasingly personal war of words between two leading potential 2016 presidential contenders…

For their part, libertarians are thrilled. They say it is a sign they truly have arrived as a force to be dealt with, rather than dismissed as a fringe element.

“There are a lot of people within establishment Republican Party politics who have controlled the process for the last 10 or 20 years who fear that their grip on the party is slipping away,” said Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.), whose amendment to restrict the NSA’s ability to collect telephone records came surprisingly close to passing in the House last week.

In an interview, Amash argued that despite opposition from House GOP leaders, his point of view represents an advancing wave among House Republicans. He cited an analysis by Bloomberg News showing that while House Republicans who have served more than five years opposed his amendment by more than 2 to 1, it won a slim majority among those who have arrived there more recently.

***

Lost amid all the hubbub about Rand Paul and Chris Christie’s war of words over NSA security programs and the rising strain of Republican libertarianism is this:

A similar divide is alive and well in the Democratic Party — arguably just as much in the GOP (if not more)…

Put plainly: It’s a movement in search of a leader. There isn’t one big nationally known player on the left that is pushing this issue in a way that Paul is on the right…

Potential 2016 contenders who could take up this mantle include noted liberals like Howard Dean or even Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.). But Dean hasn’t been a major figure in the Democratic Party for a while now, and Warren has close ties to the Obama Administration, which would seem to make her less likely to buck it on these issues.

It’s not at all clear that this leader will even emerge, but if they do, they could quickly build a pretty significant profile.

***

Though not purely libertarian, I rally to Paul’s side because his freedom-based positions best counter the unbridled spending of the Obama administration. I applaud Paul’s current efforts to de-fund Obamacare, before the law can devastate the American economy.

Sen. Paul has demonstrated consistent leadership since election in 2010. While a lengthy filibuster opposing drone use received substantial attention, the 50-year-old ophthalmologist frequently voices common-sense solutions otherwise ignored in Washington, including a recent argument to withdraw $1 billion of foreign aid for Egypt to help infrastructure needs at home.

In contrast, Gov. Christie has failed to lead.

***

America has only gotten more and more libertarian in many ways over the course of our lifetimes. Due to ad hoc political coalitions (such as the one that deregulated airline ticket pricing and interstate trucking in the late 1970s), technological innovation (thank you, interwebz), and a general leveling of authority (welcome to “the end of power”), most of us are more free to live our lives however we see fit than ever before.

Which isn’t to say that most of the hard work of freedom isn’t still ahead of us, especially when it comes to politics. The 21st century has in many ways been a bust and not just economically (though that can’t undercounted). We’ve got a state that can tell us we must buy health insurance, where we’ve phoned from and to whom, and whom we can marry. Our foreign policy – it doesn’t really even rise to qualify as a policy, to be fair – is godawful and destructive and too many of us can’t wrap our minds around a future in which we will go broke paying for entitlements that are neither cost-effective nor necessary for most people. Yes, lots ahead for us.

***

Gingrich said though he supported both the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq, he has to “say the way that they were executed failed, and maybe we should have known better, those of us that supported them. … Republicans have a real obligation to ask themselves the question: Aren’t there some pretty painful lessons to learn from the last 10 or 12 years? Don’t we have to confront the reality that this didn’t work as a strategy?”


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FIRST!

Lanceman on August 2, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Ssspannnakopitaaa!

sartana on August 2, 2013 at 8:03 PM

4

Electrongod on August 2, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Libertarians are often dismissed as a mutant subspecies of conservatives: pot smokers who are soft on defense and support marriage equality. But depending on their views, libertarians often match up equally well with right- and left-wingers…

The big-L version lines up more with lefties because they share a common class enemy.

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:19 PM

4

Electrongod on August 2, 2013 at 8:12 PM

So glad you saved that for me :-)

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:23 PM

Tap. Tap. Tap. Is this mic on?

Wait a minute; there’s liquid flowing out of this tap. Good thing I brought my mug.

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:26 PM

This talk of a rise of libertarianism is hogwash.

A lot of the concern among Republicans about terrorist surveillance is really just a partisan reaction to the idea that Obama could be spying on them.

bluegill on August 2, 2013 at 8:27 PM

rumor is Ron Paul will endorse Nancy Mace in her primary challenge against Lindsey Graham

commodore on August 2, 2013 at 8:28 PM

If I may borrow the words from the prophet of our brave new world:

The Neocons. That’s old school people. We in the new school, our generation, my generation.

It’s going to be nice to have a Reagan-esque POTUS again, guys — you’ll see. Rand Paul just might have what it takes to turn things around.

Punchenko on August 2, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:23 PM

:)

Electrongod on August 2, 2013 at 8:29 PM

For those readers that think we have until 2016 or even 2014 to fix this disaster….

We have until September 30th.

If LaRaza pushes Amnesty through in the “slow walk” through the House….and we don’t DEFUND ObamaCare and shut down the Government if we have to by 9-30……

….20 million new voters will turn Texas blue and other races will go Democrat and the House will turn Dem controlled in 2015 and it will be over.

We’ll never recover as millions more Mexicans will flood the border.

September 30th!!!!

PappyD61 on August 2, 2013 at 8:31 PM

It’s going to be nice to have a Reagan-esque POTUS again, guys — you’ll see. Rand Paul just might have what it takes to turn things around.

Punchenko on August 2, 2013 at 8:28 PM

I’m praying you’re right, Punchenko. Praying hard he’s the nominee in 2016, and that he’s the leader you and I hope.

Inkblots on August 2, 2013 at 8:32 PM

Ssspannnakopitaaa!

sartana on August 2, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Uh oh, we’ve got a Venture Bros. fan here :D

Inkblots on August 2, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Ah, there we go; customers! Let’s see if I got this cheat sheet right:

Bitter root, bluegill
Spiked punch with extra spike, Puncherko
Captain and Coke, commodore
Sam Adams Double Boch, Electrongod

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Sam Adams Double Boch, Electrongod

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Make that two…
for now.

Electrongod on August 2, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Make that two…
for now.

Electrongod on August 2, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Good thing I brought the steins.

:clink:

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:36 PM

I don’t believe you can really equate actual libertarians with the supposedly “libertarian left”.

About all they have in common is drug legalization. Libertarians generally believe in the Second Amendment; their “opposite numbers” generally believe all gun owners should be burned at the stake.

Libertarians are generally for decriminalization of drugs. Their opposite numbers will settle for nothing less than Taxpayer Funded Free Dope For Life For All Truly Good, Sensitive And Caring People- like themselves.

Libertarians generally believe in school choice. Their opposites generally believe in teachers’ unions and the NEA as the indoctrinators training the next generation to be “enlightened”- like them.

False equivalencies are a bad idea. They can cause you to overlook differences that can be dangerous in the long run.

clear ether

eon

eon on August 2, 2013 at 8:36 PM

*clink*

Electrongod on August 2, 2013 at 8:37 PM

This talk of a rise of libertarianism is hogwash.

A lot of the concern among Republicans about terrorist surveillance is really just a partisan reaction to the idea that Obama could be spying on them.

bluegill on August 2, 2013 at 8:27 PM

So, Yeah, They Are Collecting And Reviewing More Than Just Your ‘Metadata’

I’ll bring this up here…

NSA Helpful Tips of the Day:

* Always engage in Synchronised Searches wit your housemates. Combo ‘Puter Searches can be a pre-crime.

* Searching for a rice cooker online can trigger the ‘Rice, Rice, Baby! ringtone alert at the NSA. Keep Calm And Look At Crockpots Instead!

* All your Google searches belong to us…unless you’re an actual terrorist like the Brothers Tsarnaev.

One mo thang: Lick that hand, lick that hand, bytchfish!

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:37 PM

From Ace…

Detroit Failed Because Right Wingers Engineered It To Fail, to Prove Black People Can’t Run Their Own Governments, Or Something

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:32 PM

Teh STOOOOOPID – it burns!

Evenin’ RWM. Since I finally figured out the combination to the Captain’s liquor cabinet, what will you have?

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Ah, there we go; customers! Let’s see if I got this cheat sheet right:

Bitter root, bluegill
Spiked punch with extra spike, Puncherko
Captain and Coke, commodore
Sam Adams Double Boch, Electrongod

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Mmmmmm. Ah, just like Grandma Punchenko used to make it before church. I see Bluegill is crying in her beer again. I tease! :-)

Punchenko on August 2, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Rand Paul sure is looking pretty Hitler-y in that image!

/Jennifer Rubin & Friends

Punchenko on August 2, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Aren’t there some pretty painful lessons to learn from the last 10 or 12 years? Don’t we have to confront the reality that this didn’t work as a strategy?

I have a lot of beefs with Newt Gingrich, but I’ll give him this much: he’s more willing to be introspective than a lot of the not so Grand but definitely Old Party.

“US soldiers need to be everywhere! Always! Help jihadis in Libya! Congress doesn’t need to declare wars! Arm al Qaeda in Syria! Don’t worry, we’ll only arm the good al Qaeda! Disagree? You’re an Isolationist! Because 9/11, that’s why! Shut up! Stop thinking! Safe for democracy! I’m from the government and I’m here to help!”

Inkblots on August 2, 2013 at 8:40 PM

I step away from HA for a couple days, and when I return: Sponsored From Around The Web. Oh well, HA, I can’t really stay away. If it’s Sponsored From Around the Web vs autoplay ads, I’ll take the former.

Jackalope on August 2, 2013 at 8:41 PM

eon on August 2, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Thanks for that explanation. The Libertarians I know don’t seem to know what they stand for except … Leave Me Alone™ … and which sometimes translates in practice to something very close to anarchy. Ask them their position on any current political matter and they will say “Meh. Just leave me alone.” Maybe they’re low info Libertarians. :)

PatriotGal2257 on August 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Libertarians are generally for decriminalization of drugs.

eon on August 2, 2013 at 8:36 PM

A lot of us favour decriminalisation for the following reasons:

1) A Republic based upon liberty should not dictate to adults that which they can ingest into their bodies.

2) If drugs are to be regulated, it should be at the state level.

3) If the Feds want to ban drugs, then they should be forced to garner the requisite support to amend the Constitution…like they did with Prohibition, which, after all, worked out so well.

4) The War on Drugs has failed.

I am NOT for drug decriminalisation because I do drugs. On the contrary, I think drugs are for losers.

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM

I’ll admit I’m intrigued but I draw the line at unfettered abortion, wholesale drug legalization and the government sponsored Anal Intercourse Liberation Front. Does this rule me out of the Libertarian camp?

Mason on August 2, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM

I guess this makes me Libertarian because I agree with you on this. :)

PatriotGal2257 on August 2, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Teh STOOOOOPID – it burns!

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Doesn’t it? I hit similar idiocy a couple of weeks ago…

A Lesson on Detroit For Ed Schultz & Melissa Harris-Perry

Evenin’ RWM. Since I finally figured out the combination to the Captain’s liquor cabinet, what will you have?

Evening. Grey Goose Cosmo, please.

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:47 PM

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:33 PM

What’s a guy gotta do to get a drink in this joint?

KCB on August 2, 2013 at 8:47 PM

I guess this makes me Libertarian because I agree with you on this. :)

PatriotGal2257 on August 2, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Welcome aboard!

Mason on August 2, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Mason, there are pro-life libertarians. You are reading one.

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:48 PM

Hate to type and run, but plaing Jules Winnfield to the Enslaved One’s Brett earlier in the day is taking a delayed toll.

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:48 PM

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Well said Sophie!

KCB on August 2, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Evening. Grey Goose Cosmo, please.

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:47 PM

Order up!

What’s a guy gotta do to get a drink in this joint?

KCB on August 2, 2013 at 8:47 PM

Ask.

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Ask.

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Woodford Reserve please!

KCB on August 2, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:48 PM

Thanks! And that’s good, because I am pro-life as well.

PatriotGal2257 on August 2, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Woodford Reserve please!

KCB on August 2, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Order up!

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:54 PM

I must be more tired than I thought; I seem to be missing a “y” someplace up there.

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Got some new ones…

‘Toons of the Day: Any Day Now…

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:56 PM

I need a big fat margarita followed by a pitcher of sangria.

What a day blech!

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 8:56 PM

Order up!

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Thank you kind sir, and might I say, this is a top notch establishment!

KCB on August 2, 2013 at 8:56 PM

Sorry, but I doubt if Libertarianism is the antidote to Liberalism.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:00 PM

Mason on August 2, 2013 at 8:45 PM
Mason, there are pro-life libertarians. You are reading one.
Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:48 PM

Right here! Me too! :)

iwasbornwithit on August 2, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Sorry, but I doubt if Libertarianism is the antidote to Liberalism.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:00 PM

I think it’s part of the mixture.

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:10 PM

I’ll take libertarianism over progressivism anyday.

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:10 PM

Here you go Gophergirl. Pitcher of Cadillac Margaret’s. On the house. Dude in the corner bought it.

Whiterock on August 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM

Am I the only one wondering if there is a missing quote at the top of the QOTD?

FloatingRock on August 2, 2013 at 9:14 PM

Here you go Gophergirl. Pitcher of Cadillac Margaret’s. On the house. Dude in the corner bought it.

Whiterock on August 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM

Thank you! Make sure to call me a cab :)

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:14 PM

Libertarianism IS Liberalism (classical liberalism)

They hijacked the term. ;(

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:15 PM

Howdy folkses :)

Hi Steve, make mine a SC on the rocks, with a cherry in it :)

*Clink*

Scrumpy on August 2, 2013 at 9:15 PM

That’s odd.. I’m a dude sitting in a corner…

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Oh, and a pitcher of beer, I feel like cryin’ in it /

Scrumpy on August 2, 2013 at 9:18 PM

Libertarianism IS Liberalism (classical liberalism)

They hijacked the term. ;(

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:15 PM

I don’t think so, wolly. I believe that’s Conservatism.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:18 PM

I think it’s part of the mixture.

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:10 PM

I dunno, gophergirl. It just seems like a reaction to Liberalism instead of a refutation of it.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:22 PM

My libertarian take on drugs, with the preface I don’t partake..

If someone grows weed on their own property, and consumes it on their own property, I hurts me not one bit.

Personally I like growing tomatoes. Given the chance, the feds would outlaw that too.

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:23 PM

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:23 PM

^5!

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 9:23 PM

Bourbon for me, Steve. Neat.

SailorMark on August 2, 2013 at 9:27 PM

Wrong cleo. Read Liberal Fascism.

The term was hijacked in the early 1900′s.

Was does “liberal” mean outside of a political context?

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:27 PM

FIRST!

Lanceman on August 2, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Then make it count, COWARD!!!

ladyingray on August 2, 2013 at 9:27 PM

“I think the other thing about it is that the old guard needs to realize they’re the ones that have been losing the last couple of elections,” Paul said. “If we want to win for presidency we have to compete in the states where we’re not competing. Precisely, up in the northeast and on the west coast where Republicans are basically on life support. We need to reach out with issues that may attract new people to the party.”

You know, perhaps reaching out to your base and actually acting conservative would be worth a try. Maybe if you recaptured the people who’ve faithfully voted for you for decades, but now are so flaming pissed off with your ridiculous mewling attempts to be ‘moderate’ that consistently result in failure at the ballot box, well… who knows what might happen if you gave your base something to be enthusiastic about?

But no, you go right ahead, pissing on the base while you gaze longingly in places for voters that have *never* historically been there for you. I’m sure some more ‘moderation’ and ‘Dem Lite’ will turn the NE and Cali straight into GOP arms… because it’s worked so well so far, hasn’t it?

Midas on August 2, 2013 at 9:28 PM

I’ll take a double Patron margarita, please. And some chips and salsa, if not too much trouble.

Midas on August 2, 2013 at 9:30 PM

Bleh……….

Scrumpy on August 2, 2013 at 9:30 PM

No More Fricking Progs n Dems!!

Scrumpy on August 2, 2013 at 9:31 PM

rumor is Ron Paul will endorse Nancy Mace in her primary challenge against Lindsey Graham

commodore on August 2, 2013 at 8:28 PM

So he wants Lindsey to win, is that it?

Midas on August 2, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Anyone up with New Orleans news?

A Murder And A Shooting On Mandeville Street

Got any inside info? Is this the NAACP’s newest saint?

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Get used to it.

Conservatives are not wanted or liked…

Even tho we outnumber liberals/dems/progs, we won’t win again.

Scrumpy on August 2, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Was does “liberal” mean outside of a political context?

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:27 PM

Yeah, but I just don’t think Libertarianism is informed by the same philosophical base as Classical Liberalism is. It doesn’t seem to be informed by anything higher than a sense of “leave me alone” rather than an understanding of just WHY Liberalism is evil.

In my opinion, that merely sets up another political camp rather than developing a coherent antidote to Liberalism. So you have the next generation of young voters simply rejecting Liberalism because they think it cramps their style but they don’t know what its evil really is. They’ll simply drift right back into it eventually.

Sullivan’s Law.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Ladyingray- you have a point. His only post was “first!”

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:35 PM

The Republican Party without Libertarians would be dead! Just plain dead!!
We may whine about parts of libertarian theory or moan about their tactics, but they bring more passion and more life to this party than any other group I’ve ever seen. Without them, we’re just a room full of pissed off old white guys with too much time on our hands.
As far as I’m concerned, if they’re getting stronger it’s because this regime is making every nutty prediction we used to laugh at come true. In that sense, Barack Obama is not only the best gun salesman in history, he’s also the best libertarianism salesman in history.

Lew on August 2, 2013 at 9:36 PM

This talk of a rise of libertarianism is hogwash.

A lot of the concern among Republicans about terrorist surveillance is really just a partisan reaction to the idea that Obama could be spying on them.

bluegill on August 2, 2013 at 8:27 PM

….naah!…some of them…he can just smell!

KOOLAID2 on August 2, 2013 at 9:38 PM

KOOLAID2 on August 2, 2013 at 9:38 PM

Crazy hagfish eh innit, yeah!! :)

Scrumpy on August 2, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Coming up:

Groundzero; The Loudspeaker Said!!

Live streaming, starts at 9pm CST…

http://www.kxl.com/pages/stream_player

Crazy Good!! ;)

Scrumpy on August 2, 2013 at 9:44 PM

Steve Eggleston on August 2, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Tanqueray and tonic, with a lime wedge, please.

ladyingray on August 2, 2013 at 9:46 PM

I dunno, gophergirl. It just seems like a reaction to Liberalism instead of a refutation of it.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:22 PM

Maybe conservatives are developing a new definition of libertarianism.

I know that I still firmly believe in conservative principles but I also know that I’m sick to death of the government, special interest groups, the media, celebrities, etc telling me what I should eat, drink, and believe. I want to be left alone to live my life and live with the consequences of the choices I’ve made.

The government should only do for us those things we cannot do ourselves. National defense is part of that but does national defense include spying on Facebook chats?

I’m rambling but I know right now I identify more with Rand Paul then I do John McCain or Chris Christie.

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:47 PM

…I sorta like Rand Paul…the guy on the right needs to stay out of the picture!…he has the same problems Senator Senile has…

KOOLAID2 on August 2, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Cleo- I see your point, I think.

But I’m big on being left the hell alone.

This gubmint doesn’t. Can’t you see fascism in your face?

Screw all the simplistic arguments. It’s here, now.

Liberty is a lack of law? Who’s breaking the law? The people applying it?

There are too many laws. Every f*+king thing is illegal.

It’s about power.

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Got some new ones…

‘Toons of the Day: Any Day Now…

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:56 PM

…I like the first ‘Toon…where JugEars is grasping our fish !

KOOLAID2 on August 2, 2013 at 9:52 PM

I’m rambling but I know right now I identify more with Rand Paul then I do John McCain or Chris Christie.

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Agreed. I believe that true conservatism is “get off my lawn and leave me the hell alone!!!”

ladyingray on August 2, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Ladyingray- you have a point. His only post was “first!”

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Me and lanceman go way back…”coward’ has special meaning between us…meaning, he is one!!! LOL

ladyingray on August 2, 2013 at 9:53 PM

Maybe conservatives are developing a new definition of libertarianism.

That would be unfortunate because Conservatism is a more coherent and more persuasive argument against Liberalism than Libertarianism when articulated accurately.

I know that I still firmly believe in conservative principles but I also know that I’m sick to death of the government, special interest groups, the media, celebrities, etc telling me what I should eat, drink, and believe. I want to be left alone to live my life and live with the consequences of the choices I’ve made.

The government should only do for us those things we cannot do ourselves. National defense is part of that but does national defense include spying on Facebook chats?

I’m rambling but I know right now I identify more with Rand Paul then I do John McCain or Chris Christie.

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Well, like I said, a REACTION to Liberalism. I’ll take it but it’s not a more persuasive argument.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Jerimaih Johnson territory, here. “you cook good rabbit, Pilgram”

Of course I’d need a hunting liscense now.

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:55 PM

I’m rambling but I know right now I identify more with Rand Paul then I do John McCain or Chris Christie.

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:47 PM

i don’t think you are rambling. I think that’s exactly the point. the Rs have been co-opted too long by progressives. Rs want their big government. Rs pushed ethanol for example. The R from MI was perfectly happy with the Light bulb ban.

these are not our friends..they have their own agenda…and their own self-interested donors…we are not it. They do not operate out of principle but rather from a ‘moderate’ point of view that does Not shape the political discussion…but goes along with it in order to keep their sweet jobs and perks

and, honestly, gophergirl..I think Rs will be surprised how many of us there are….which is great news if you are Hillary Clinton

r keller on August 2, 2013 at 9:56 PM

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Oh, listen, wolly, I’m right there with you, my friend. Believe me.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Libertarians are welcome within the GOP, but they can’t run it. And the Paul family aren’t the ones to do it if they could. They’re too divisive and pugnacious. Rand Paul, like his father, is unqualified to be President. We need someone who can run the executive branch and he doesn’t have the experience.

Right now, Paul reminds me of Barack Obama.

flataffect on August 2, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Libertarianism IS Liberalism (classical liberalism)

They hijacked the term. ;(

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 9:15 PM

I don’t think so, wolly. I believe that’s Conservatism.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 9:18 PM

I think you’re both right. Here’s the story about what happened to the classical liberalism, the fissure of conservatism and libertarianism. I wish the quality were better but it happened long ago in a land far, far away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o1USbrTE4E

FloatingRock on August 2, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Agreed. I believe that true conservatism is “get off my lawn and leave me the hell alone!!!”

ladyingray on August 2, 2013 at 9:52 PM

That’s exactly it.

Rand is doing all of us a great service – he’s making people think.
Will he be the candidate – who knows but he has started the conversation and he’s outed people like McCain. For that we owe him thanks in my opinion.

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:57 PM

. Rand Paul, like his father, is unqualified to be President. We need someone who can run the executive branch and he doesn’t have the experience.

Right now, Paul reminds me of Barack Obama.

flataffect on August 2, 2013 at 9:56 PM

…this isn’t a “like father…like son” situation…and there is NO WAY IN HE11…he reminds me of the community organizing piece of sh!t !

KOOLAID2 on August 2, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Anybody who has seen the movie The Dark Crystal knows how it ends. Those that haven’t seen it, should.

FloatingRock on August 2, 2013 at 9:59 PM

gophergirl on August 2, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Listen, gophergirl, anytime your put in the position of REACTING to another’s argument, you’ve already lost, because you’re accepting the premise of their arguments and offering objections to them instead of RESPONDING with a superior argument of your own and making THEM react to YOUR argument.

The problem with today’s GOP is that they no longer know what they stand for and are simply playing on the Liberal’s terms.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Rand Paul, like his father, is unqualified to be President. We need someone who can run the executive branch and he doesn’t have the experience.

Right now, Paul reminds me of Barack Obama.

flataffect on August 2, 2013 at 9:56 PM

When did Obama run any business, much less his own medical practise?

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 10:03 PM

I am NOT for drug decriminalisation because I do drugs. On the contrary, I think drugs are for losers.

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM

.
I used to agree with your position and reasoning 100%.

What now gives me pause is I now see societal collapse as probable as opposed to remote.

Legalize all drugs in a sane society and DENY benefits to drug users through mandatory, weekly drug testing – you get a “self cleaning oven” scenario which solves your “drug problem”.

In these insane times, by making all drugs legal, you incentivize the judicial/dealer/police triumvirates towards short term maximization of their profits by actively working towards societal collapse BEFORE widespread legalization could be put in place.

PolAgnostic on August 2, 2013 at 10:05 PM

I’ve thought clearly about all the paperwork I need to live.

I need a liscense to catch a fish for dinner? Really?

I have to pay the gubmint to eat?

Look at your car. How many different things do you pay the gubmint for? Why?

Model T days you just drove. Pre-income tax days. 100 years ago.

wolly4321 on August 2, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Agreed. I believe that true conservatism is “get off my lawn and leave me the hell alone!!!”

ladyingray on August 2, 2013 at 9:52 PM

No. True Conservatism is ” All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights…”

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Right now, Paul reminds me of Barack Obama.

flataffect on August 2, 2013 at 9:56 PM

When did Obama run any business, much less his own medical practise?

Resist We Much on August 2, 2013 at 10:03 PM

I know. I’m surprised more people didn’t jump on that one.

Cleombrotus on August 2, 2013 at 10:08 PM

and btw..Paul was being very nice to the R party in talking about the last couple of elections.

this shows the awful truth. since 1992 the Left has had comfortable margins when they’ve won…W, not so much. He lost the popular vote in 2000…and won by 2.5 percent…Not a big margin at all. W was not a popular president.

So 20 years guys…something has to change…actually more than 20 years.Bush 1st rode the coat-tails of Reagan in 1988…and won by over 7 percent. Really disgusting that they float along thinking that they have bragging rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin

(sort on the year column to re-organize the table)

r keller on August 2, 2013 at 10:11 PM

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