Change: 53% now support criminal charges against Snowden

posted at 11:21 am on July 24, 2013 by Allahpundit

Two weeks ago, Quinnipiac found that 55 percent considered him a whistleblower versus just 34 percent who regarded him as a traitor. This new ABC/WaPo data doesn’t squarely contradict that — you can believe that he deserves to be charged with something while thinking that it should be less than treason — but as of a month ago, a near-majority of 48 percent didn’t want him charged with a crime at all. Public support for him is slipping. The question for the next Quinnipiac poll is how much it’s affecting the whistleblower/traitor calculus.

When I posted the ABC/WaPo link on Twitter, a few Snowden supporters tweeted back that this is what happens when you’re the target of a government propaganda campaign. Yeah? What’s the “propaganda” that’s supposedly being spread by the feds? They claim that he ran away to China and then to Russia with a treasure trove of sensitive info that can damage U.S. national security. Snowden himself says yep, that’s true; Glenn Greenwald reminds the world almost daily that there are more damaging revelations still to come and plenty of stuff even more damaging than that which Snowden’s holding back on because it would endanger U.S. personnel in the field if it were leaked. Some or all of this may already or eventually be in the possession of Russian or Chinese intelligence, depending upon how forceful they’re willing to be with him and how willing he is to resist. There’s nothing the feds have said about Snowden that’s remotely as damaging to him as his own decision to hole up in Moscow and issue encomiums to Russia and Venezuela for, ahem, standing up for human rights.

es1

Snowden apologists will wave this away on grounds that the real story’s not about him, it’s about surveillance, and that he’s actually winning this debate with the White House if you look at how the public’s soured on the NSA and data-mining lately. But the story is, partly, about him; the way the public views a policy is shaped to some extent by their trust in the people pushing for and against it. The more perceptions of Snowden go south, the more people will view his PRISM revelations less through the lens of the concerned citizen who boldly stood up for civil liberties and more through the lens of a Wikileaks-type attempt to embarrass the government out of antagonism to U.S. policies more broadly. It’s not a huge factor, nor should it be, but it’s something. That’s human nature. Which brings me to the claim that Snowden’s winning the debate, supposedly bolstered by ABC/WaPo’s new data showing fully 74 percent of respondents regard NSA data-mining as intruding on Americans’ privacy rights. If you look more closely at the numbers, though, you find this:

es2

A significant minority of the people who think government surveillance is intrusive also think the intrusion is justified. And what’s more, they’re less inclined to say it’s intrusive when you ask them about their own personal privacy. All told, despite weeks of revelations that show the feds are mining basically every form of electronic communication, you’ve still got majorities who say that that’s either not intrusive or that it’s justifiable. Is that “winning” the debate? Ask yourself this: How many votes is Justin Amash’s “defund the NSA” amendment apt to get in the House today? Let’s assume something strange happens and the amendment passes, whereupon it’s quickly killed by Harry Reid and the Democrats in the Senate. Do you think that’ll be a major issue in the midterms, or in 2016? (Rand Paul’s counting on it, I know, but I’m still asking.) The way Snowden wins this debate is if people in Washington start losing their seats because they support the current scope of federal data-mining. Where’s the evidence that that’s going to happen?


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Comment pages: 1 2

Don’t retire. Strike.

Don’t produce to pay taxes for robbers of your freedom!

Schadenfreude on July 24, 2013 at 2:50 PM

I think the thing people really need to ask themselves when considering Snowden and the NSA is what is more important: your freedom or your security.

Yes, both can be of equal importance, and yes people can put energy into both, however, the fact of the matter is that Snowden is getting for more attention than the real problem.

People prioritize. You may feel that your freedom is more important than security, but if you are focusing more attention on Snowden, you aren’t practicing what you profess.

Personally, I don’t care what secrets he holds. If there is a secret that can be that dangerous to our security, then better it does come out so we can address the weakness. In fact, I would suggest that we’re not secure at all if Snowden can so easily access those types of secrets.

Lastly, anyone that is more afraid of other governments than its own is naive. Our government has always been our most dangerous adversary. One thing you can be sure of, your government will secure itself to secure its power…it won’t however, secure your freedom of its own volition.

Pattosensei on July 24, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Edit to previous comment:

Yes, both can be of equal importance

Actually, if you hold security equal to freedom in your consideration you will likely find yourself less free than you ever imagined.

Pattosensei on July 24, 2013 at 3:01 PM

Pattosensei on July 24, 2013 at 3:01 PM

And soon, they will have neither.

LegendHasIt on July 24, 2013 at 3:14 PM

I rant against Islamists, the ones of the 3rd century,

A more accurate depiction of your actions would admit that you castigate all Muslims as being inevolved since the 7th century. You’re like those Southern Bigots I’ve heard talk about their good ni****s.

Unless they meet your standard, Blacks are ________, Hispanics are ___________ and gays are _______. In your mind all Muslims are mu****s.

Capitalist Hog on July 24, 2013 at 3:31 PM

unevolved

Capitalist Hog on July 24, 2013 at 3:32 PM

CH, as usual, is stuck on rabid stupid. Have at it, pig of HA, with profound apologies to pigs.

Schadenfreude on July 24, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Sparky5253 on July 24, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Funny you should mention Canada, my mother in law is actually French Canadian (and a dual citizen too) who lived in the US for her entire adult life…so, Canada is an option for me and my family should we ever choose to leave here, but to be honest I never thought about it seriously. I lived in Toronto for 2 years and in Nova Scotia for 1 year and while I loved their absolutely stunning nature and great outdoors, that was pretty much all that I was fond of while there…I am aware that Canada does things smarter than the US currently, oretty much on every evek (especially energy policies which is my main beef with this imbecilic administration here) , but there’s no guarantee that they will keep going that path for much longer…make no mistake, socialism is deeply entrenched in Canadian politics and in people’s mindsets, and there are many heads on the left exploding as a result of Harper’s policies…I ave a fiew Canadian contacts on FB (the political activist types) whose main purpose in life is to see Harper gone…Hopefully Canadians who enjoy their current prosperity won’t make the mistake of reviving and putting in office pathetic Chretien types, or worse yet, Ignatieff types…And yes, I am a tradesman actually (wine import/export) and we export quite a bit of the Californian Cab and Chardonay to Vancouver/BC distributors, and my family in France who’s in the same business (besides they are producers of fine, grand cru classe wine too) export to both Quebec and BC…so, yes, Canadians are valuable custormers (and I might add better wine connoisseurs than the Americans :) but we make the big bucks in the much larger US wine market, not to mention that we’re tapping into the growing Chinese one too…there’s gigantic export potential there…

jimver on July 24, 2013 at 3:39 PM

One dumb ass critter right there.

Bmore on July 24, 2013 at 4:03 PM

A gift from the USA

Schadenfreude on July 24, 2013 at 4:41 PM

jimver on July 24, 2013 at 3:39 PM: I wouldn’t pay much attention to the Harper haters because Canadian provinces have a lot of autonomy. When choosing a place in Canada, choose your region (province) carefully as some are more socialist than others. Sounds like you have a good thing going … just keep the back door open :)

Sparky5253 on July 24, 2013 at 5:48 PM

The criminal charges should be against Obama and the higher ups at the N-Stasi-A.

VorDaj on July 24, 2013 at 5:57 PM

How many people support criminal charges for the folks at the NSA?

CurtZHP on July 24, 2013 at 11:49 AM

I do and we could call it Nuremberg II.

VorDaj on July 24, 2013 at 6:07 PM

The criminal charges should be against Obama and the higher ups at the N-Stasi-A.
VorDaj on July 24, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Sad to see disgraceful, Michael Moore wannabe Edward Snowden worshipers like you commenting at a conservative site like this.

The truth is that Snowden is a vile, anti-American traitor who specifically set out to weaken our country and help our adversaries. Cheap partisan hacks like VorDaj giddily cheer on Snowden because they think this hurts only Obama, but the truth is that Snowden’s leaks, and especially the manner in which he went about revealing them, make us all less safe. Al Qaeda sends Snowden its heartfelt thanks.

bluegill on July 24, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Seriously? “Snowden Apologists”???

WTF? Since when do we believe everything we read in the media or from the Holder Justice Dept? We trust them on this, but not Fast and Furious. Shame on you.

All this proves is the media and Administration have been quite effective with their narrative. A narrative that many conservatives have been all to eager to adopt and propagate.

gaius on July 24, 2013 at 8:28 PM

“Some or all of this may already or eventually be in the possession of Russian or Chinese intelligence, depending upon how forceful they’re willing to be with him and how willing he is to resist.”

gotta love the aimless speculation to reinforce a narrative that’s been reported by the media (that we love/hate when it suits us) and by Eric Holder.

God help us all.

gaius on July 24, 2013 at 8:31 PM

I think the thing people really need to ask themselves when considering Snowden and the NSA is what is more important: your freedom or your security.

Yes, both can be of equal importance, and yes people can put energy into both, however, the fact of the matter is that Snowden is getting for more attention than the real problem.

People prioritize. You may feel that your freedom is more important than security, but if you are focusing more attention on Snowden, you aren’t practicing what you profess.

Personally, I don’t care what secrets he holds. If there is a secret that can be that dangerous to our security, then better it does come out so we can address the weakness. In fact, I would suggest that we’re not secure at all if Snowden can so easily access those types of secrets.

Lastly, anyone that is more afraid of other governments than its own is naive. Our government has always been our most dangerous adversary. One thing you can be sure of, your government will secure itself to secure its power…it won’t however, secure your freedom of its own volition.

Pattosensei on July 24, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Well said. I agree, but I fear no man. I fear government. I fear a government that will enslave my freedom by thought control.

It’s already here. Compliments of the (D)emocratic Party and their complete prostration to Marxism. Most (R)s are too spineless to resist.

To Hell, with them both.

98ZJUSMC on July 24, 2013 at 10:01 PM

I am not seeing what this poll says in the people I run into

However guess this poll is timed for the Amash attempt

I do not even trust the vote. Some will vote with Amash to preserve their reelection, because they know the vote will not pass

When you see a close vote on a Boehner issue, be suspicious that some were given permission by the bosses to cross over to the losing side

entagor on July 24, 2013 at 11:47 PM

The truth is that Snowden is a vile, anti-American traitor who specifically set out to weaken our country and help our adversaries. Cheap partisan hacks like VorDaj giddily cheer on Snowden because they think this hurts only Obama, but the truth is that Snowden’s leaks, and especially the manner in which he went about revealing them, make us all less safe. Al Qaeda sends Snowden its heartfelt thanks.

bluegill on July 24, 2013 at 8:28 PM

You fool! You ignorant fool! Why are you so willfully blind to the chains your let your precious “America” wrap you in under the sweet promise of “safety?” You continually let that spider wrap you in its webbing because it promised to protect you from the bee’s sting. You did not even notice the pinch of the poison fangs. At least you feel comfortable and secure.

I wish people like you didn’t make up the majority in this country, because your ignorance affects my freedom.

Pattosensei on July 24, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Comment pages: 1 2