Video: The media’s got a fee-vah and the only prescription is complaining about “Stand Your Ground” laws

posted at 2:28 pm on July 19, 2013 by Allahpundit

A nifty medley from Andrew Johnson at the Corner of our media collectively deciding what social justice now requires after the Zimmerman verdict. (Dick Durbin announced just this morning that he’ll be holding a Senate hearing on “stand your ground” laws, on the theory, I guess, that state legislatures are somehow incapable of doing so themselves.) Anyway: Is it true, as many supporters of the verdict have claimed, that “Stand Your Ground” had nothing to do with the outcome of the trial? Well, yes. And no. But also yes.

Had he chose, Zimmerman could have demanded a “Stand Your Ground” hearing in the pre-trial phase. If the judge had ruled in his favor, the charges would have been thrown out. He waived his right to that hearing, which means the media obsession with SYG is a total non sequitur, sort of like their obsession with gun laws post-Newtown that would have done zip to stop Adam Lanza. Right? Not exactly. The concept of standing your ground, i.e. having no duty to retreat when force is being used against you, is also part of the general self-defense law that Zimmerman did successfully invoke in being acquitted. From the jury instructions:

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Thirty-one states impose no duty to retreat on someone before they’re allowed to use force in their own defense versus just 19 that do. But wait — how do we know that SYG actually factored into the jury’s deliberations and affected the outcome? Just because the judge charged it doesn’t mean it mattered in the end. Well, thanks to juror B37, there’s circumstantial evidence to think that it did:

Juror B37: After hours and hours and hours of deliberating over the law, and reading it over and over and over again, we decided there’s just no way … because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground

Cooper: Even though it’s he [Zimmerman] who had gotten out of the car, followed Trayvon Martin, that didn’t matter in the deliberations? What mattered was those final seconds, minutes, when there was an altercation, and … in your mind the most important thing was whether or not George Zimmerman felt his life was in danger?

Juror: That’s how we read the law. That’s how we got to the point of everybody being “not guilty.”

Cooper: So that was the belief of the jury, that you had to zero in on those final minutes/seconds, about the threat that George Zimmerman believed he faced?

Juror: That’s exactly what had happened.

That’s just one juror’s read on the situation, not all six, but obviously SYG did make it into the jury room. The question is, would the verdict have been different if Florida law imposed a duty to retreat instead? I’m thinking probably not. If you believe Zimmerman’s version of the fight, which the jurors apparently did, Martin ambushed him with a punch, knocking him to the ground, and then jumped on top of him to continue the beating. There was no opportunity for “retreat,” a point also made by Jacob Sullum at Reason. The duty to retreat affects the outcome here only if you extend the concept of “retreat” temporally to apply before there was any confrontation. I.e. Zimmerman got out of his car to keep an eye on Martin, ergo he’s guilty of manslaughter for not letting the other guy bang his head on the concrete subsequently. Is that a more just result? Does it matter, for that matter, that even “stand your ground” laws don’t apply if the person claiming self-defense is found to have provoked the use of force against himself? How far does the left want to stretch the concept of “retreat” here?

Don’t take any of this too seriously, though. Like I said yesterday, the SYG outcry is less about the particulars of the Zimmerman case and more about giving liberals something to rally around for the midterms when the DOJ inevitably decides not to prosecute Zimmerman. This is politics.


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She so ugly, the tide won’t take her out.

Akzed on July 19, 2013 at 4:25 PM

Now, Obama-

“There are very few African American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.”

Then, “Rev.” Jackson-

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery,” Jackson told the audience.

“Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. . . . After all we have been through,” he said. “Just to think we can’t walk down our own streets, how humiliating.”

ebrown2 on July 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Now, Obama-

“There are very few African American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.”

And of course, he didn’t even write it.

Akzed on July 19, 2013 at 4:27 PM

“Blacks benefit from Florida ‘Stand Your Ground’ law at disproportionate rate”

http://tinyurl.com/q455tlm

hepcat on July 19, 2013 at 4:27 PM

There are very few African American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.

The complete blockage in race relations is that black men think they have a corner on this market.

I got followed in stores as a youth, because we were there horsing around and killing time. I wore my hair in a Mohawk for a time in college, and found that crowded sidewalks and hallways parted in front of me, whereas they never had before. I’ve had people cross the street to walk on the other side when there were just two of us in the evening. It’s normal–in fact, it’s wise.

The thing Obama would never admit is that he’s probably locked his own car doors based on someone’s appearance. They may well have been black, or maybe they were a skinhead. If I can easily identify you as having a decent likelihood of belonging to a group that commits more than their fair share of crimes, I’m going to raise my situational awareness accordingly. I’m not a racist for that reason, I’m just not stupid.

TexasDan on July 19, 2013 at 4:28 PM

IJustPutYouOnBlast ‏@JustPutUonBlast 3m

VIDEOS: Trayvon Martin’s Parents and President Obama Discuss Outcome… http://adf.ly/SRSXo #AfricanAmericanIssues #BreakingNews

http://freddyo.com/videos-trayvon-martins-parents-and-president-obama-discuss-outcome-of-the-zimmerman-verdict/breaking-news/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#.UemhAKz4LFw

canopfor on July 19, 2013 at 4:29 PM

Then, “Rev.” Jackson-

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery,” Jackson told the audience.

“Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. . . . After all we have been through,” he said. “Just to think we can’t walk down our own streets, how humiliating.”

ebrown2 on July 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM

I was about to look for that quote.

Jesse Jackson racially profiles.

But it’s okay when blacks do it.

farsighted on July 19, 2013 at 4:31 PM

A president seeking unity would have contacted the Zimmerman family also.

questionmark on July 19, 2013 at 4:31 PM

I wonder how these media agitators like Morgan and Matthews will react if heavy ‘protests’ break out nationwide, with their exclusive neighborhoods also targets like in the tourist area of Hollywood yesterday?

Liam on July 19, 2013 at 4:32 PM

She so ugly, the tide won’t take her out.

Akzed on July 19, 2013 at 4:25 PM

She lost trayvon, but she still got this one

burrata on July 19, 2013 at 4:32 PM

The main question here is whether the left is going to continue their persecution and lynching of innocent Hispanics.

TarheelBen on July 19, 2013 at 4:33 PM

IJustPutYouOnBlast ‏@JustPutUonBlast 3m

VIDEOS: Trayvon Martin’s Parents and President Obama Discuss Outcome… http://adf.ly/SRSXo #AfricanAmericanIssues #BreakingNews

http://freddyo.com/videos-trayvon-martins-parents-and-president-obama-discuss-outcome-of-the-zimmerman-verdict/breaking-news/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#.UemhAKz4LFw

canopfor on July 19, 2013 at 4:29 PM

They are praying for the strength to forgive as parents and feel that Zimmerman’s family are inauthentic.

inauthentic? I don’t recall reading that Z’s parents trademarked his name. TM getting shot is the best thing that ever happen to them and they are milking it for all it’s worth.

Dr. Frank Enstine on July 19, 2013 at 4:34 PM

They are praying for the strength to forgive as parents and feel that Zimmerman’s family are inauthentic

WTF does that mean?

Midas on July 19, 2013 at 4:41 PM

The thing Obama would never admit is that he’s probably locked his own car doors based on someone’s appearance.

TexasDan on July 19, 2013 at 4:28 PM

I have lived in and around Chicago all of my life.

I have never ever not locked my car doors, including when driving around in the city, even in all white neighborhoods.

When walking around in the city you must always be aware of what is going on around you. Pick pocketing wallets and purse theft happen all over in big cities. Women position purse straps so that someone cannot snatch and run with them. Men keep wallets in pockets that are very hard to access.

And so on and so forth.

These are all things ones learns growing up in a big city, even in all white neighborhoods. There are plenty of white punks and thugs and white gangs doing crime in white neighborhoods in big cities.

farsighted on July 19, 2013 at 4:45 PM

A half-Black President elected TWICE by White America lecturing on the racism of America seems very very contradictory.

Wagthatdog on July 19, 2013 at 4:47 PM

The main question here is whether the left is going to continue their persecution and lynching of innocent Hispanics.

TarheelBen on July 19, 2013 at 4:33 PM

.
The “left” has been persecuting anyone, innocent or otherwise, who represent a roadblock to their agenda, since way before Trayvon Martin was born.

They’re not going to stop, now.

listens2glenn on July 19, 2013 at 4:48 PM

A half-Black President elected TWICE by White America lecturing on the racism of America seems very very contradictory.

Wagthatdog on July 19, 2013 at 4:47 PM

It’s a sad result of another contradiction:

“How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of n@groes?”-Samuel Johnson: “Taxation No Tyranny”

ebrown2 on July 19, 2013 at 4:59 PM

libfreeordie on July 19, 2013 at 3:11 PM

While we have you here, what do you think about the fact that you have been defending the aggressor in an attempted gay-bashing gone bad?

SubmarineDoc on July 19, 2013 at 5:25 PM

I have lived in and around Chicago all of my life.

I have never ever not locked my car doors, including when driving around in the city, even in all white neighborhoods.

When walking around in the city you must always be aware of what is going on around you. Pick pocketing wallets and purse theft happen all over in big cities. Women position purse straps so that someone cannot snatch and run with them. Men keep wallets in pockets that are very hard to access.

And so on and so forth.

These are all things ones learns growing up in a big city, even in all white neighborhoods. There are plenty of white punks and thugs and white gangs doing crime in white neighborhoods in big cities.

farsighted on July 19, 2013 at 4:45 PM

I spent a year in Uptown. Loved it, but it was the only place I’ve lived where I heard gunfire from my domicile. Regularly.

Ace had a perfect post on this the other day.

One anecdote from my time on Wilson Avenue: had a friend who was losing his hair very early and decided to shave it all off, as he was a skater as well. He got on the wrong el train leaving downtown one time and was directed off the train and onto the correct one by a well-meaning black woman who knew they were drawing near to the Robert whatever they were homes, and that this young (white) guy wasn’t going to live through the experience.

TexasDan on July 19, 2013 at 5:28 PM

and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

libfreeordie on July 19, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Jews have had a pretty difficult history, too. I wonder why we’re disproportionately successful, while African-Americans are disproportionately involved in crime?

It couldn’t have anything to do with broken families, a cycle of government dependency and a culture that values criminal behavior more than it values education, could it?

Nope. Has to be racism. Has to be “a difficult history.” Because African-Americans are the only people on the entire ****ing planet with a “difficult history.”

Oh, and no one has ever followed you or Obama in a department store, because you’re both scrawny little mandarins who never lived a day outside of the “privilege” you tend to ascribe to only white people.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 19, 2013 at 5:30 PM

inauthentic? I don’t recall reading that Z’s parents trademarked his name. TM getting shot is the best thing that ever happen to them and they are milking it for all it’s worth.

Dr. Frank Enstine on July 19, 2013 at 4:34 PM

Although I have sympathy for Trayvon’s mother, as for any mother who loses a child, I don’t have much respect for her. It’s been widely reported that Trayvon actually lived with his father and stepmother for most of his life, and only moved in with his mother when his father and stepfather divorced. Which seems to be when his behavioral problems started. His mother kicked him out pretty quick because she could not control him. And that’s why he was in Zimmerman’s neighborhood. Doesn’t seem like she did much for Trayvon when he was alive.

mbs on July 19, 2013 at 5:36 PM

Read the whole statement. He isn’t saying anything about the trial itself. He is communicating how black citizens feel. We are citizens too and for the first time, a President (RARELY) is speaking to us. Sort of the way Bush constantly spoke to Christians.

libfreeordie on July 19, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Whenever one of us would say “Obama doesn’t speak for me” or “Obama isn’t my President,” you’d accuse us of racism.

Now, you’re basically saying that Obama *should* speak for black Americans more often.

Lulz.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 19, 2013 at 5:36 PM

Oops, father and stepmother not father and

stepfather

. Although I guess that might explain the homophobia.

mbs on July 19, 2013 at 5:37 PM

We understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

libfreeordie on July 19, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Does that include Democrat President Lyndon Johnson’s boast that with his Great Society boondoggle, he was going to lock up the black vote for the next thousand years? Of course, he didn’t use the word “black”, he used the same word Bobby Byrd did.

F-

Del Dolemonte on July 19, 2013 at 6:24 PM

libfreeordie on July 19, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Are you going to frame this speech and then hang it in your bedroom next to your poster of Dear Leader?

Del Dolemonte on July 19, 2013 at 6:28 PM

low-information perfesser on July 19, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Are you going to frame this speech and then hang it in your bedroom next to your poster of Dear Leader?

Del Dolemonte on July 19, 2013 at 6:28 PM

It might also go into his Obama Shrine.

slickwillie2001 on July 19, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Haven’t felt this positively about Barack Obama since before the appointment of Tim Geithner.

libfreeordie on July 19, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Are you always so easily influenced by a simple speech? Dictators throughout history have risen to power because idiots like you swoon over mere words.

blink on July 19, 2013 at 3:46 PM

Speaking of Swooning Democrats, I’m watching CNN right now (6:30 PM EDT). Wolfie is schoolgirl crushing out on Dear Leader. Just played his entire statement unedited.

LOL, Wolfie is going to bring on Reggie Love to join his O’bama Swoon-Fest after the break. Must miss!

Del Dolemonte on July 19, 2013 at 6:38 PM

We understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

libfreeordie on July 19, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Speaks the Emperor of the poorer folk. The Poorer Folk, who he so desperately aspires to save from themselves, because, like toddlers, “The Poor” and “Minorities” have simply no capacity for free or rational thought. Lib would have you believe that The Poor Black Community, is simply not strong enough to overcome the fact that their great, great grandfathers were abused as a people. They simply will NEVER be able to break those mental shackles, and as such, are relegated to the status of mindless animals that prey on each other. But ‘He’ Is enlightened. “They” Understand.

LibFree: You are such an oppressive, arrogant, tool; it is unreal.

I hope one day the people that liberals, in their well-intentioned ignorance, are actually enslaving, wake up to you and people like you…and truly throw off oppression. ..by just walking away from you.

a5minmajor on July 19, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Piers Morgan seems so concern over this. Anyone know where he lives?

RdLake on July 19, 2013 at 6:58 PM

We understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

libfreeordie on July 19, 2013 at 3:18 PM

So how do you explain the violence all across Africa – which is almost entirely black – African-Africans killing African-Africans?
In case you didn’t have a clue – THEIR poverty is 100 times worse than the absolute worst case of poverty in this country – and yet some countries in Africa are relatively peaceful. The most poverty stricken blacks in this country are considered downright wealthy by real Africans.
Slavery in this country was ended 150 years ago – by Republicans. Get over it. Not a single black person alive in America today has EVER lived in slavery, and they live far better than even the wealthy people in some countries. Racism and dysfunction exist everywhere in the world – and in most places it’s far worse than in the US.
Pull your head out of your @ss.

dentarthurdent on July 19, 2013 at 8:30 PM

A Stand Your Ground law is an excellent way to have a more careful and probably less violent society. It’s like the old adage that a well armed society is a polite society. A SYG law will provide more deterrence to physical aggression in society since the aggressor will know that the defender will not have to worry about having to retreat. That more aggressive punks & thugs at first might wind up dead as a result is something that only left wing fools and bleeding hearts will be shedding tears about.

All states, IMO, should have a Stand Your Ground law.

Chessplayer on July 19, 2013 at 10:59 PM

She so ugly, the tide won’t take her out.

Akzed on July 19, 2013 at 4:25 PM

ROFL! That is hilarious!!!
I think that the libs will think that Akzed made
a disparaging remark about the effectiveness of
laundry detergents.

shorebird on July 19, 2013 at 11:24 PM

We could have a pointy-headed discussion about SYG law in various states, but the right of self-defense is ancient, primary and a safe principle of western legal systems.

Total distraction by Democrats because they lost and this is the straw they are grasping for.

As for Holder, holding on to Zimmerman’s gun – infantile!

virgo on July 20, 2013 at 1:32 AM

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