War: Larry Elder versus Piers Morgan on the Zimmerman trial

posted at 11:21 am on July 18, 2013 by Allahpundit

Actually, this isn’t about the trial so much as it’s about media orthodoxy regarding the trial’s supposed Larger Truths. And it’s not a war so much as it is Elder indicting Morgan — relentlessly — for his own small role in nurturing that orthodoxy, specifically in his treatment of Rachel Jeantel. I’ll give Piers credit for this much: Not every cable news host would arrange a segment for the express purpose of having a guest tear him apart on air. Elder came loaded for bear and Morgan let him go for 11 full minutes. Good lord. Coming soon on “Piers Morgan,” presumably: An array of gun-rights experts spends the full hour patiently explaining why Piers is a cancer on America.

Speaking of nurturing orthodoxies, I wonder when Holder’s planning to break it to America that the DOJ isn’t filing federal charges against Zimmerman and never seriously considered doing so given how weak the evidence is for a hate-crimes case.


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How do you explain Sundown Towns then? Which existed as far northwest as Oregon, throughout the Land of Lincoln, and into the South. Regardless of whether party politics was even part of the culture, sundown towns were ubiquitous.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:01 PM

And coincides, if I’m not mistaken, with the high-water mark of Klan activity in the early part of the 20th century. This influenced politics all across the nation, particularly through the upper midwest and northwest, as opposed to the traditional strongholds of the south.

questionmark on July 18, 2013 at 1:33 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

Seriously, you’re pathetic at this point.

Many blacks better than you are mentoring or tutoring black kids, working at shelters, soup kitchens, ministering in churches. Non-blacks get involved with that work to truly help people.

You could do any of those things if you want to be taken seriously.

But you waste your time vomiting bile on a conservative forum.

This thread will be over soon, but your pathetic existence continues.

22044 on July 18, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Implicit in your statement is that black racial violence is *EXTREMELY RARE* You can point to the late 60s urban riots, the LA riots, Oakland after Oscar Grant and very very few others. Whereas white racial violence is spread throughout US history.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Probably because there are a *lot* more white people in this country than black people?

Oh, and “spread throughout US history”? Give me some examples of prominent white mob violence from the past 25 years.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Oh there’s no question that addiction can run rampant through a society. But the penalties for addiction within the War on Drugs far outweigh those from use of those same drugs. Remember, most of the violence in black communities is related to the illegal drug trade and control over drug territory and the emergence of gangs to control that territory. Think of the enormous resources wasted incarcerating non-violent drug offenders which could be invested in impoverished communities, employing people to fix roads, improve schools etc. Employment rules often mean that any conviction for a drug offense automatically designates prior offenders to second class status, making gainful, upwardly mobile employment a near impossibility. And when you add that to the fact that even though white and black rates of drug use are basically the same, black people are disproportionately arrested for possession, we have a system which really has a lot to do with the perpetuation of black poverty. Remember, black poverty has gotten worse *even as black violent crime has declined* Clearly, something else is amiss.

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/aclu-thewaronmarijuana-rel2.pdf

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM

You’re one smart cookie.

mankai on July 18, 2013 at 11:43 AM

I see what you did there!

That could fit right in with “Bless your heart!”

questionmark on July 18, 2013 at 12:11 PM

That’s my new generic insult. It’s condescending… just like Piers.

mankai on July 18, 2013 at 1:35 PM

I don’t understand how conservatives can call Al Sharpton a race hustler…

That’s OK, I understand. My children don’t understand why my wife and I don’t permit them to do certain things because, like you, they’re not mature enough to understand.

When (more like, ‘If’) you grow up you’ll understand. In the meanwhile, it’s best to stay out of the adult conversations.

Kingfisher on July 18, 2013 at 1:36 PM

This was NOT Larry’s Best interview. He looked like a dodgy politician. Although I agree with his points, his performance was less then stellar. He was to emotional and then personally attacked Jeantel BUT then tried to dodge the direct question. He did do his ideology any favors here by looking aggressive, not assertive. Answer the questions, do not filibuster, speak the truth and people will respect you if not agree with you.

Highgroundpolitics on July 18, 2013 at 1:36 PM

You could have just said “the black crime rate is higher than the white crime rate.” We agree on that fact. But lets maybe throw in a few variables. What happens to black-white comparisons in the crime rate when we control for the poverty level of perpetrators? If black people are inherently more criminal, why has the black crime rate fallen so dramatically in the last 20 years? In other words. Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

The ENTIRE crime rate has fallen dramatically over the last 20 years…even though those 20 years allegedly fall within the ’30 years’ since Reagan’s tax cuts.

I didn’t say that blacks are ‘inherently more criminal.’ That presumes that there is something biological, mental, emotional, etc, that predisposes African-Americans to being violent and criminal. I don’t believe that. I do believe that there is a large segment of the African-American population that excuses criminal behaviour ‘cuz ‘Victimhood!’ as seen in this statement by Maxine Waters during/after the Rodney King riots:

‘If you call it a riot (Rodney King riot) it sounds like it was just a bunch of crazy people who went out and did bad things for no reason. Riot implies to me wild, crazed, uncalled-for actions and I’m not so sure that’s quite appropriate for what took place in Los Angeles. It was unfortunate that it takes things like this rebellion to wake people up. I maintain it was somewhat understandable, if not acceptable…It was only a rebellion… a spontaneous reaction to a lot of injustice and a lot of alienation and frustration…There were mothers who took this as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes. Maybe they shouldn’t have done it, but the atmosphere was such that they did it. They are not crooks.’

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:36 PM

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Actually he has avoided talking about Zimmerman and Martin because he knows the mountains of stupidity he spouted in the past on the issue will be brought back to him like riot police spraying rioters with fire hoses.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Remember, black poverty has gotten worse *even as black violent crime has declined* Clearly, something else is amiss.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM

Your conclusion is probably racism, my conclusion is the Great Society, which is what Lyndon Johnson and others wanted to accomplish with the black community: poverty to create a perpetual farm labor force.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:37 PM

This is why I refer to police violence as “mob violence” it is merely an upward distribution of violence to the state.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

So, it doesn’t actually have to be a ‘mob’ of police officers?

It just has to be *A* police officer.

Out of curiosity, what or who do you expect to keep order in the “black community” if you get rid of all the cops…or bring them to heel and keep them from arresting blacks?

Do you prefer anarchy…vigilante ‘justice’…what?

Or will black gangs simply disappear when the cops do? Because..you know..lions and lambs, peace and love man.

Jus’ axin’.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Isn’t this discussion forgetting a popular demographic?
 

2010 Hate Violence Against LGBT, Queer, and HIV-Affected Communities in the U.S.

 
“NCAVP’s 2010 report demonstrates that anti-LGBTQH violence remains widespread and severe in the United States… black offenders comprised of 35.3% of offenders”
 
http://www.avp.org/documents/NCAVPHateViolenceReport2011Finaledjlfinaledits.pdf

rogerb on July 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

What happens to black-white comparisons in the crime rate when we control for the poverty level of perpetrators?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

If poverty is the only controlling factor (and I agree with you, I think it is poverty/lack of opportunity that creates the impetus for criminal activity, not skin color), then you agree that the SCOTUS should fully overturn Grutter v. Bollinger, correct?

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Listen, I am a long-time opponent of the War on Drugs, but I think it is a complete cop-out to say that it is the cause of devastated black communities.

Do you believe that the black community would not be devastated if it was allowed to legally smoke crack and do smack?

One can argue, logically and consistently, that 1) the War on Drugs is not working; AND 2) drug use devastates families and communities.

#2 was true long before the War on Drugs. Alcoholism used to devastate entire neighbourhoods. Indeed, it weakened (weakens) entire countries. See Ireland in the 19th century and Russia in the 20th century and today.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Well said

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

You could have just said “the black crime rate is higher than the white crime rate.” We agree on that fact. But lets maybe throw in a few variables. What happens to black-white comparisons in the crime rate when we control for the poverty level of perpetrators? If black people are inherently more criminal, why has the black crime rate fallen so dramatically in the last 20 years? In other words. Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

OK, lets. Now explain to us why large cities insist on making it so difficult for these poor and disaffected to defend themselves? You have all kinds of excuses, yet you continue to ignore the fact that many blacks in inner-cities are denied the ability to be self reliant by the so called progressive leaders of these cities.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 1:40 PM

Your conclusion is probably racism, my conclusion is the Great Society, which is what Lyndon Johnson and others wanted to accomplish with the black community: poverty to create a perpetual farm labor force.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:37 PM

My conclusion is that you can’t read. Clearly if you read that paragraph you would see that I think the problem is the War on Drugs.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:40 PM

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Yep. Can’t possibly imagine why attention whores like libfree can’t get their fill IRL…LOL, yeah right.

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM

And, all this garbage has to do with Larry Elder laying the smackdown on Piers Morgan, how?

Just another threadjacking by the former DeathToAllMediaHacks…the perfesser.

kingsjester on July 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM

ibfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM

As I said (and have written), I am a long-time opponent of the War on Drugs. The history of drug laws is rooted in racism.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:43 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:40 PM

Isn’t the War on Drugs considered Racism to you?

Anything to absolve personal responsibility.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:43 PM

obama is the Thug of the World

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 1:43 PM

And, all this garbage has to do with Larry Elder laying the smackdown on Piers Morgan, how?
 
Just another threadjacking by the former DeathToAllMediaHacks…the perfesser.
 
kingsjester on July 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM

 
It’s okay. He’ll flee the thread soon.

rogerb on July 18, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

I think poverty and race should operate together and poverty should be more heavily weighted than race is. The result will probably be about what we see in terms of admissions now as weighting poverty will include quite a few racial minorities.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Black Panthers Offer $10,000 Bounty For George Zimmerman

Damn you Drug Laws!

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Think of the enormous resources wasted incarcerating non-violent drug offenders which could be invested in impoverished communities, employing people to fix roads, improve schools etc.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM

We already do all that. The stimulus bill was packed with a bunch of bull**** make-work “shovel ready” projects like fixing roads and improving infrastructure and every other buzzword you can think of that just means “throwing away money to put a band-aid on a gaping wound.”

Funny how you suddenly become a staunch fiscal conservative when it comes to saving money on jailing criminals and fighting the “war on drugs,” but don’t take that same attitude with ANY OTHER CUTS that are suggested by conservatives.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Now explain to us why large cities insist on making it so difficult for these poor and disaffected to defend themselves?

Right, because the NRA believes Trayvon would have been OK if he had just had a gun. Oh wait, they’ve made no such statement. The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Hispanics are the poorest ethnic group in the country and their crime rate is much lower.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Oh there’s no question that addiction can run rampant through a society. But the penalties for addiction within the War on Drugs far outweigh those from use of those same drugs. Remember, most of the violence in black communities is related to the illegal drug trade and control over drug territory and the emergence of gangs to control that territory. Think of the enormous resources wasted incarcerating non-violent drug offenders which could be invested in impoverished communities, employing people to fix roads, improve schools etc. Employment rules often mean that any conviction for a drug offense automatically designates prior offenders to second class status, making gainful, upwardly mobile employment a near impossibility. And when you add that to the fact that even though white and black rates of drug use are basically the same, black people are disproportionately arrested for possession, we have a system which really has a lot to do with the perpetuation of black poverty. Remember, black poverty has gotten worse *even as black violent crime has declined* Clearly, something else is amiss.

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/aclu-thewaronmarijuana-rel2.pdf

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM

The War on Drugs is a factor but it’s not the most important one.
The disintegration of the black family and a change in “black culture” are the most important. The focus on “racism” is complete disservice to poor blacks. Poor people move to this country from all over the world – even in large numbers like various Asian groups and hispanics – and they tend to thrive in America. It’s very curious that “White Privilege” doesn’t keep them down.

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

It’s obvious to me that the expert on being Black in America and the Law here, is Piers Morgan. This is just another example of why CNN is so awesome!

Kenz on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

If black people are inherently more criminal, why has the black crime rate fallen so dramatically in the last 20 years?

It hasn’t – as you well know. It’s grown all out of proportion to other ethnic groups.

In other words. Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

To you and other race hustlers, it doesn’t…unless you can turn a buck off the bodies of dead black kids.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Actually he has avoided talking about Zimmerman and Martin because he knows the mountains of stupidity he spouted in the past on the issue will be brought back to him like riot police spraying rioters with fire hoses

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 1:36 PM

I tried to do my part in that when stumbling across him while reading and commenting on the Zimmerman related threads.

Interesting how on an earlier Headline thread related to a SYG case that has been brought up in the context of the Zimmerman trial he personally insulted the author of a blog piece over on Ace’s site.

And when the author made a point of coming here, directly addressing him, and offering to engage him in a discussion…. crickets.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

What’s with the weird wig comments? Is that Rachel Jaental talk?

Responsible black gun ownership is welcomed.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

But what about more integrated places like the metro areas of big cities like LA, Chicago, NYC, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. Sure, “white flight” meant a lot of the white population fled to the suburbs, but these are still highly integrated areas for the most part.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Interesting thing about white flight: it’s usually followed by black flight.

In both cases, they’re trying to get away from high crime and low education.

Find any place where you can identify white flight, and see if the African American percentage of the population doesn’t increase shortly, or hasn’t already increased.

The reason is simple: if you have an intact family, you’re going to escape poverty, and move to an area where you can make a better life for your family.

Whatever your race is.

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Remember, black poverty has gotten worse *even as black violent crime has declined* Clearly, something else is amiss.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM

It’s in front of you and you are part of it – it’s poverty pimping, for glory, power, status and money, votes to get there.

obama has done nothing, nada, nothing for the blacks, especially not for the black youth. Never have they been this bad off (I know, I know, this is not a thread about slavery).

Quit making excuses for the Sharptons and the obama. YOU, if you’d utilize your given brain, could do so much good, alas.

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM

My conclusion is that you can’t read. Clearly if you read that paragraph you would see that I think the problem is the War on Drugs.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:40 PM

So you are saying that the modern Democrat party is waging “mob violence” on black communities?

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM

I think poverty and race should operate together and poverty should be more heavily weighted than race is. The result will probably be about what we see in terms of admissions now as weighting poverty will include quite a few racial minorities.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Why include race at all if poverty is truly the controlling factor?

Let me guess, because of “diversity”? Then why not also assure a diversity of opinions by having an admissions boost for being a Republican/Conservative, since college-aged kids are disproportionately likely to be liberal?

But that wouldn’t work, because colleges really only care about improving their USN&WR ranking, raking in cash hand over fist, and looking diverse in photos while lacking any actual diversity of thought.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM

The reason is simple: if you have an intact family, you’re going to escape poverty, and move to an area where you can make a better life for your family.

Whatever your race is.

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Yup. That’s the bottom line.

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Hispanics are the poorest ethnic group in the country and their crime rate is much lower.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

As a group they are also much more self reliant, and personally responsible. But brainfree will never admit liberal policies in liberal cities is what has disenfranchised blacks.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 1:49 PM

The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Your racist prejudices are not the facts.

The NRA welcomes all responsible gun owners/users. I will never join them, though, because they are occasionally political azzes.

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 1:50 PM

How do you explain Sundown Towns then? Which existed as far northwest as Oregon, throughout the Land of Lincoln, and into the South. Regardless of whether party politics was even part of the culture, sundown towns were ubiquitous.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Shhhhhh….. shh… do you hear that? Off in the distance?

Why it’s the sound of a lone violin…

JohnGalt23 on July 18, 2013 at 1:50 PM

The history of drug laws is rooted in racism.

The California opium (and later Federal) laws were aimed at the ‘Coolies.’ The marijuana laws were aimed at blacks.

But, in all truth, the drug laws were predated by laws against alcohol, which were directed against the Irish and Italian immigrants, who were mainly Catholics, by the Pietists (and their progeny, the Progressives).

Three-time, failed presidential nominee, William Jennings Bryan, a pacifist, who served as Wilson’s Secretary of State, but resigned when the US entered into WWII (approximately 4 months after Wilson was successfully reelected on a platform of ‘He Kept Us Out Of The War!’), thought that the War could serve a purpose: Spreading not so much democracy to the four-corners of the world, but PROHIBITION! Gotta get those Catholics and Heathens dry!

Public education in the United States started in earnest as a movement against Catholics. See Archbishop John Hughes a/k/a ‘Dagger John.’

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Leftists, throughout history, have done nothing to elevate blacks. They love their dependency, for their exploitation.

One day, one day, the minorities will wake up. I want to live to experience that day.

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM

The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Au contraire. Further, it was actually started, in large part, because of Democrats’ attempts to disarm blacks after the Civil War.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM

The reason is simple: if you have an intact family, you’re going to escape poverty, and move to an area where you can make a better life for your family.

Whatever your race is.

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Agreed. I went to public school in a relatively affluent suburb of Cleveland. When I started in kindergarten, it was probably about 5% African-American. By the time I graduated HS, that number had shot up to around 15-20%.

Some people stay in the city schools because of “loyalty.” Some want to be part of the solution and refuse to run away. But most people, when they have the means, will simply move to an area where they know their children can get a proper education.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:52 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Free yourself. Bad things happened and will happen, all throughout history. Get out of it and help others to do so too. You could use your brain for good, alas.

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 1:52 PM

liveenslavedthendie, you should read:

America, Meet Mr Roderick Scott

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:53 PM

If black people are inherently more criminal, why has the black crime rate fallen so dramatically in the last 20 years? In other words. Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

According to experts, it’s because of laws like “Stand your ground” which provides the legal justification for good blacks to defend themselves from criminal blacks. By the way, “Stand your ground” has been used more heavier by blacks than whites as a percentage of population. Yet many people who you support, are trying to remove the defense rights of good people in favor of criminals. Pretty messed up if you ask me!

dominigan on July 18, 2013 at 1:53 PM

The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

What’s with the weird wig comments? Is that Rachel Jaental talk?

Responsible black gun ownership is welcomed.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Yep. Just another leftist ignoramus who doesn’t know shite about shite. Of course he ignores entirely the premise of my question and instead spouts inane racial nonsense.

Right, because the NRA believes Trayvon would have been OK if he had just had a gun. Oh wait, they’ve made no such statement.

Trayvon was the aggressor dipsh!t. We just had a trial that settled that point. The NRA does not advocate that criminals should be armed…are you saying all blacks are criminals?

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 1:53 PM

1. Is your claim that police violence is somehow not “mob violence?” If so, then we simply disagree on the terms and won’t be able to come to an agreement on your question.

2. Data helps: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/15/the-trayvon-martin-killing-and-the-myth-of-black-on-black-crime.html

3. I do not think racial mob violence is the most pressing issue facing the black community. That would be poverty and mass incarceration via the War on drugs, the later of which produces most of the former.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:58 PM

1) I’ve never seen a mob of policemen tear up a neighborhood (of any ethnicity) in an orgy of violence and psychosis.

2) Ok, lets do some numbers (which your link doesn’t do).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Blacks commit 49.7% of the charges of Murder & Negligent Manslaughter. FBI Government data (sorry if that’s not a valid source and only Daily Beast liberal site can be accepted, they didn’t provide numbers/data for this, at all).

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf

Blacks make up 12.6% of the population (again, I had to rely on government data; your link was very data light).

This data from the government shows blacks are more than 6 times as likely as the rest of the population to commit murder.

Data does help, which is why I provided Government statistical data; unlike your link. Why did you claim “data matters” then show a link with no data?

And your link claims Blacks aren’t more criminal than others. 12.6% of the population, 30% of total crime, 49.7% of murder.

I can see why they wouldn’t provide the data, given they wanted to make a claim not supported by the data.

Thanks for clarifying. Data matters… which is why I went and found data. Oddly it doesn’t support your claim, or your link’s claim.

Next time avoid that statement; maybe nobody will go look at the actual data and see you’re full of crap.

3) So murder doesn’t matter? Even at a rate inflated by more than a factor of 6? Interesting view… I disagree with you there as well.

gekkobear on July 18, 2013 at 1:54 PM

The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM
Your racist prejudices are not the facts.

The NRA welcomes all responsible gun owners/users. I will never join them, though, because they are occasionally political azzes.

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Let’s really get the facts straight.

NRA does not give much of a damn about gun owners. They care a great deal about gun manufacturers. Now, as both those groups’ interests coincide fairly broadly, NRA can perpetuate a myth about representing gun owners.

But we’ve seen time and again where those two interests diverge, NRA knows upon which side of the bread the butter lays.

Join GOA. No compromise. No way. Never…

JohnGalt23 on July 18, 2013 at 1:55 PM

Now explain to us why large cities insist on making it so difficult for these poor and disaffected to defend themselves?

Right, because the NRA believes Trayvon would have been OK if he had just had a gun. Oh wait, they’ve made no such statement. The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Don’t you know black guns are assault weapons!!! Geeze, try to pay attention.

More seriously, no, the NRA is not interested in gun ownership by blacks, or by whites, or by any other race. Most organizations are not structured for certain races.

The NRA is interested in gun ownership by the law-abiding, so they can protect themselves from criminals. Unless you want to say “law-abiding” excludes all black people, then the NRA is just as interested — or rather, uninterested — in ownership of guns by blacks as they are by whites.

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 18, 2013 at 1:55 PM

The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

You know what’s nice about guns? They’re race-neutral. They don’t have a trigger mechanism that only functions for white people. Bullets don’t bounce off of white people like Superman.

Guns, when used for self-defense, are equally effective in the hands of all races, nationalities and creeds, for both men and women and the entire LGBQT spectrum.

Last I checked, it was the NRA, not the NRAACP (National Rifle Association for the Advancement of Caucasian People).

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:56 PM

If black people are inherently more criminal, why has the black crime rate fallen so dramatically in the last 20 years? In other words. Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

Fox Butterfield, is that you?

I know you’ve talked about the high incarceration rate of black males. If you can’t see the link between the incarceration of criminals and a dropping crime rate, then maybe logic is not really your thing.

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 18, 2013 at 1:57 PM

kingsjester on July 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM

IRL, lfod’s employer probably does not encourage cyber-stalking and harassing strangers. Then again, they are probably like-minded fellow travelers, so sociopathic attention-seeking behavior is probably the norm among them.

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 1:58 PM

I’ll accept your idiotic comments as fact when white people start race-related riots.

Kingfisher on July 18, 2013 at 11:46 AM

Why do you make it so easy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Shirts_(Southern_United_States)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_Insurrection_of_1898

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Summer_(1919)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_Homes_Race_Riots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero_Race_Riot_of_1951

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_busing_crisis

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM

First, I’d like to THANK YOU for providing us a history lesson on the sheer EVIL that is the Democrat Party. Did you actually read the articles you posted? WOW!

I knew Democrats were bad, but I didn’t realize how slimy, twisted and pure EVIL they are!

So, what does it say about the person who chooses to associate with that type of party? I could accept an “ignorant” plea, but you claim to be an educated professor who knew about these horrific Democrat-induced riots.

dominigan on July 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Right, because the NRA believes Trayvon would have been OK if he had just had a gun. Oh wait, they’ve made no such statement.

Dude, Trayvon was a minor and, if you don’t mind, please tell me which party is for keeping guns out of the hands of minors at all times?

FAIL.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM

I can’t credibly refute Elder’s smackdown of Boat Wharf Morgan, so I will call him names.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 11:31 AM

Edited for Accuracy.

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Edited for Accuracy.

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Boat Wharf; I love it. :P

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 2:00 PM

Right, because the NRA believes Trayvon would have been OK if he had just had a gun. Oh wait, they’ve made no such statement.

BTW, Trayvon DID have a gun at some point. If he still owned it, he decided not to carry it.

http://fishgame.com/gunnews/wp-content/uploads/trayvon_gun.jpg

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Wasn’t the NRA originally started to help blacks own weapons for self defense back in the days of the original KKK? I don’t have a link for that, but, seems I read it.

a capella on July 18, 2013 at 2:01 PM

libfreeorgan on July 18, 2013

…black bigot bullsh!t …

KOOLAID2 on July 18, 2013 at 2:02 PM

Right, because the NRA believes Trayvon would have been OK if he had just had a gun. Oh wait, they’ve made no such statement. The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.
 
libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

 
What’s with the weird wig comments? Is that Rachel Jaental talk?
 

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

 
I’m guessing it’s a forum-equivalent of blackface so everyone recognizes he’s “portraying aspects of African American culture.”
 
Minstrelsy is what he told us.
 

Why would that quoted passage be minstrelsy?
 
libfreeordie on July 5, 2013 at 9:49 AM

 

Well done, professor boo:
 

D. Minstrelsy is characterized primarily by the use of “blackface”…
 
1. Blackface served as a racial marker, suggesting that the performer would be portraying aspects of African American culture.
 
http://people.eku.edu/nelsonl/mus273/minstrel.html

 
rogerb on July 5, 2013 at 2:58 PM

 
(Dead thread, btw)
 
Not to mention, and as has been pointed out to libfreeordie repeatedly in the other threads where he tried the anti-NRA approach, that Trayvon was too young to legally own a handgun and the NRA doesn’t support criminal gun ownership.
 
As always, the anti-gun talking point is much less fun once you know and acknowledge actual facts.
 
Not that he does, but still.

rogerb on July 18, 2013 at 2:02 PM

Seriously, lfod, how do you expect people to defend themselves?

You’ve stated here before that, as a black man, you don’t rely on/trust the police for anything. In this very topic you equate police violence to mob violence.

You’ve stated multiple times that, even though you are for expanding state power, that you believe the state is inherently racist and tainted by white privilege.

You’ve stated multiple times that you’re against private gun ownership and aren’t a fan of the 2A.

So what exactly do you expect people to do?

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Oops. Forgot the minstrelsy link:
 
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/04/independence-day-2013/comment-page-3/#comment-7142233
 
My bad, boo.

rogerb on July 18, 2013 at 2:03 PM

If black people are inherently more criminal, why has the black crime rate fallen so dramatically in the last 20 years? In other words. Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

For the same reasons that the overall crime rate has fallen in the past twenty years. Predominantly, because the population has grown older, and Blacks, like the general population, are less likely to commit crimes, particularly violent crimes, as they get older. Secondarily, over the last 20-30 years, the CJ system has been far more willing to hand down long sentences for criminal activity, making sure that would be criminals are still behind penitentiary walls, as opposed to walking the streets.

But make no doubt about it; crime statistics today, as twenty years ago, as fifty years ago, indicate that Blacks, especially young Black males, commit crime at a far higher rate, particularly violent crime, than the overall US population, or any other racial subgroup or demographic.

And it’s not even close…

JohnGalt23 on July 18, 2013 at 2:04 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_busing_crisis

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM

That was caused by Racist White Democrats.

D-

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Wasn’t the NRA originally started to help blacks own weapons for self defense back in the days of the original KKK? I don’t have a link for that, but, seems I read it.

a capella on July 18, 2013 at 2:01 PM

No. Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate were upset with the generally poor marksmanship of the citizens of their day.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 2:05 PM

Right, because the NRA believes Trayvon would have been OK if he had just had a gun. Oh wait, they’ve made no such statement.

The NRA opposes criminal use of guns – no matter what the race of the criminal.

The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

In reply……

Innis takes the podium and gives a brief outline of the NRA’s beginnings. The group dates to 1871, when Union veterans William Church and George Wingate got together to commiserate on their shared observation that Rebs were better shots than Yankees. Thus, notes Innis, who is black, the NRA has been aligned with the cause of racial equality since its beginnings. But somehow, the public image has slipped, he says. “How is it possible that with a start like that, the public image of the NRA has become so contorted?” he wonders.

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/story.asp?ID=3928

For many years, the NRA Member’s Council chapter in the Santa Clara County area had a black President (name of Darryl Davis if I recall right).

The NRA has LONG since shed any institutional racism. There may be a few individuals here and there but truthfully, the general anti-gun climate has driven ALL gunnies closer together. (That said, the evidence of institutional NRA racism from approximately 1920 – 1940 or so is quite strong. But then, so were the Boy Scouts and all the rest of US society :barf:.)

One member of the Pink Pistols has publicly said that it’s easier to come out as gay to other gunnies than to come out to other gays as a gunnie! (There have been efforts to direct NRA “Cease To Be A Victim” training at the gay/lesbian communities, so it’s not just the PP involved.)

For your argument you can point out that JC Watts and Karl Malone have both been NRA spokesmen.
ACP230

Karl Malone isn’t just a spokesman, he’s also on the NRA Board of Directors.

Carl Rowan, Jr. also sits on the board of directors of the NRA.

Yes, the son of *that* Carl Rowan.

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/bios99/rowan.html

Your friend defintely needs to know about Kenn Blanchard, Board Member of the Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA), and an extremely outspoken voice for gun ownership of all Americans, but also someone who brings a unique point of view on the subject of minority gun ownership.

http://blackmanwithagun.com/

http://http://www.leaa.org/

It is also worth noting that during the worst days of the Civil Rights Movment, when blacks were being attacked. It was the NRA who helped train blacks to use firearms for their own defense and helped them protect their right to bear arms.
Charleton Heston even marched with Dr. King. Considering the violence of the time and King’s ultimate fate, is quite fair to say that Heston put his life on the line for civil rights.

via TheHighRoad

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 2:07 PM

3. I do not think racial mob violence is the most pressing issue facing the black community. That would be poverty and mass incarceration via the War on drugs, the later of which produces most of the former. And I have absolutely no problem with the epidemic of black-on-black gun violence in Chicago, because O’bama came from there and is cool.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Edited for Accuracy.

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Why don’t we get off the troll’s race angle for once, and try this: Will he say that a gay man coming out of bar, and being jumped by a group that intends him harm, has no right to defend himself with a gun?

Let there be a few incidents where gay-bashers got themselves shot because their intended target for assault had a legal gun, and incidence of that form of bigoted violence will drop.

Liam on July 18, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Interesting how on an earlier Headline thread related to a SYG case that has been brought up in the context of the Zimmerman trial he personally insulted the author of a blog piece over on Ace’s site.

And when the author made a point of coming here, directly addressing him, and offering to engage him in a discussion…. crickets.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

I really should provide links and quotes here.

The thread –

Familiarize yourself with the Marissa Alexander case before the media misinforms you

Short thread.

Hit and run troll and insult to the author.

Why didn’t Ace include the husband’s statement that he had threatened to kill her? Because he is intellectually dishonest.

libfreeordie on July 16, 2013 at 3:53 PM

He got the author wrong. It was John Ekdahl.

John Ekdahl was kind enough to make an effort to reply, a fairly long reply.

I wrote the post, not Ace, and I’d be happy to answer your questions.

I didn’t include his history of domestic violence because …

JohnEkdahl on July 16, 2013 at 5:07 PM

The hit’n run troll did not have the simple courtesy to reply to John.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 2:11 PM

I’ll give Piers credit for this much: Not every cable news host would arrange a segment for the express purpose of having a guest tear him apart on air.

That excellent point made me re-evaluate my comfortably dismissive opinion of Morgan. Now I’m not comfortable. Thanks a lot, Allahpundit.

Jens on July 18, 2013 at 2:14 PM

For a guy making a living a a professor, libfree sure does seem to have a lot of time on his hands. He must not have much work to do.

oldroy on July 18, 2013 at 2:15 PM

I don’t understand how conservatives can call Al Sharpton a race hustler, but not recognize that Larry Elder is a hustler in reverse, he just works off white racial resentment to get paid. These things are just obvious.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 11:31 AM

Yeah, especially since Elder’s little race-hustling schtick resulted in the deaths of seven innocent people at Freddy’s Fashion Mart.

Oh, wait…

Maddie on July 18, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Interesting how on an earlier Headline thread related to a SYG case that has been brought up in the context of the Zimmerman trial he personally insulted the author of a blog piece over on Ace’s site.

And when the author made a point of coming here, directly addressing him, and offering to engage him in a discussion…. crickets.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

You can thank your gun control laws for Marissa Alexander’s outrageous sentence.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:22 PM

He must not have much work to do.

oldroy on July 18, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Not so fast. Keeping the next generation down is harder than it looks.

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 2:23 PM

Interesting how on an earlier Headline thread related to a SYG case that has been brought up in the context of the Zimmerman trial he personally insulted the author of a blog piece over on Ace’s site.

And when the author made a point of coming here, directly addressing him, and offering to engage him in a discussion…. crickets.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Looks like the troll got caught with his hand in Mom’s cookie jar. “That’s it! No more computer time for you!”

CurtZHP on July 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM

The NRA isn’t interested in black gun ownership, humble your wig.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

A flat-out screaming lie. The NRA has been fighting for black and minority empowerment through gun ownership with education programs, black spokespersons and other investments of resources since its inception.

rrpjr on July 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM

You can thank your gun control laws for Marissa Alexander’s outrageous sentence.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Indeed. Why she was certainly the aggressor in that case, 20 years for a non-violent crime is just a tad bit excessive.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

Because NUMBERS!

Look at Chicago. Hundreds of blacks have been killed by other blacks since Trayvon Martin was killed…and the JustUs Bruthas have not arranged protests, sit-ins, and community ‘action.’

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:26 PM

Indeed. Why she was certainly the aggressor in that case, 20 years for a non-violent crime is just a tad bit excessive.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Indeed…and the judge admitted such. The reason that SYG didn’t apply was the facts of the case. She was not in imminent danger and had retreated. Under SYG, you can’t retreat, return to kill someone, and then claim that you feared from your life.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:27 PM

You can thank your gun control laws for Marissa Alexander’s outrageous sentence.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Yup.

The libs are the ones who love those long mandatory sentences for “gun related offenses”.

And… IIRC, Corey was the prosecutor in that case.

If the judge had some discretion in the matter Alexander would likely have gotten a much shorter sentence.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 2:29 PM

I’ll give Piers credit for this much: Not every cable news host would arrange a segment for the express purpose of having a guest tear him apart on air.

Larry Elder is awesome. Sure would like to see more of him on FNC.

petefrt on July 18, 2013 at 2:31 PM

America’s Got Talent. Piers Morgan? Not so much.

He’s like “Angry Guy,” a street person circa early 1990s Berkeley (not to be mistaken with “Naked Guy”–RIP). He would accost passersby on Telegraph and angrily demand, “TELL ME YOU HATE ME! TELL ME YOU HATE ME!” Dude wasn’t “happy” until they acquiesced.

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 2:32 PM

3. I do not think racial mob violence is the most pressing issue facing the black community.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:58 PM

A white Marine was severely beaten, stabbed, and robbed in California after the George Zimmerman verdict. The San Bernardino Sheriff’s Office is reportedly considering the savage beating gang violence, but individuals claiming to be the parents of the injured 29 Palms Marine in online posts, feel their son’s attack was a racially motivated hate crime.

Local radio station KCDZ 107.7′s crime report about the white Marine stated that the altercation took place around 2 am on Ocotillo Avenue. The radio station also noted that the attack involved about 20 to 30 people. The online pleas by the unconfirmed parents to share the story of what happened to their son maintain that approximately 15 to 20 black youths attacked the Lance Corporal in the Marine Corps, another white Marine and left their civilian black friend go unharmed. The African American friend reportedly attempted to help his friends and stop the attack, but he was vastly outnumbered.

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM

Under SYG, you can’t retreat, return to kill someone, and then claim that you feared from FOR your life.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:34 PM

I don’t understand how conservatives can call Al Sharpton a race hustler, but not recognize that Larry Elder is a hustler in reverse, he just works off white racial resentment to get paid. These things are just obvious.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 11:31 AM

Really, I don’t recall Elder marching and demonstrating for Zimmerman and I don’t recall Elder shaking down any corporation for green mail money. Maybe I was out of town that day. Sharpton was out front hustling race in the Duke Lacrosse and Twana Brawley cases along with the liberal media. Of course both cases were cons, but I don’t recall apologies from any of the liberals who convicted the defendant on the day of the announcement. Do you recall Elder hustling a verdict on day one of a case? No? That’s because he has integrity and likes to wait for verdicts.

There is zero equivalency in your analogy. If one attempts to follow your logic, or whatever goes on in the brain of a lib, then any conservative commentator is playing on white racial resentment to get paid.

“These things are just obvious.” Only to a liberal.

cajunpatriot on July 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

cajunpatriot on July 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

So, what lfod is saying (and taking way too frickin’ long to say) is that Elder is not “authentic.”

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 2:43 PM

“A white Marine was severely beaten, stabbed, and robbed in California after the George Zimmerman verdict…”

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM

He never should have gotten out of his car.

– The Left

Liam on July 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Here’s a question:

If you believe that blacks are inherently criminal why wouldn’t you be racist?

I do not believe that skin color affects criminality. The need by many to draw parity between the two is rooted in bigotry.

It’s instructive to watch the lot of you vacillate between condemning early-Democrats for their racism and lynchings while employing the same arguments and ideology as many lynch mobs.

Libfreeordie, you’re missing the point by as wide a margin as the bigots against whom you argue.

Capitalist Hog on July 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Republicans fought for and freed the slaves.
Republicans fought for and gave Blacks to the right to vote.
Republicans fought for and gave the Blacks the right to own land.
Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

What have the Dems done for blacks, except keep them down, get them hooked on welfare, and demand they keep voting for them to keep their entitlements?

Is this that Martin Luther King fought and died for?

portlandon on July 18, 2013 at 2:48 PM

“A white Marine was severely beaten, stabbed, and robbed in California after the George Zimmerman verdict…”

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM

Justice4trayvon!

Honor his memory!

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Libfreeordie, you’re missing the point by as wide a margin as the bigots against whom you argue.

Caplist Hogbreath on July 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Well, take off your hat, hogbreath, so he can see it.

Screw off, racist.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Is this that Martin Luther King fought and died for?

portlandon on July 18, 2013 at 2:48 PM

Trayvon=New School’s MLK

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Yesterday, liveenslavedthendie was mocking the Rasmussen poll which showed only 34% disagreed with the not-guilty verdict in the Zimmerman trial. I can’t wait to hear his excuse for the Huffington Post/YouGov poll, which found that only 38% would have found Zimmerman guilty.

The HP pollsters musta been racists or something.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 2:53 PM

“A white Marine was severely beaten, stabbed, and robbed in California after the George Zimmerman verdict…”
 
Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM

 
He never should have gotten out of his car.
 
– The Left
 
Liam on July 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

 
It certainly does seem like they’re reversing their “you should be ashamed if you lock your doors or cross the street when you see a black man nearby” stance.

rogerb on July 18, 2013 at 2:53 PM

I do not believe that skin color affects criminality. The need by many to draw parity between the two is rooted in bigotry.

It’s instructive to watch the lot of you vacillate between condemning early-Democrats for their racism and lynchings while employing the same arguments and ideology as many lynch mobs.

Libfreeordie, you’re missing the point by as wide a margin as the bigots against whom you argue.

Capitalist Hog on July 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Nothing more pathetic than a guilty white liberal going on about the woes of blacks.

Unless you consider statistics to be racist, Blacks are more violent than other ethnic groups in the US.

Since you have a hard-on for lib, she hates Cubans and Jews. I’m sure that turns you on.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 2:53 PM

cajunpatriot on July 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

So, what lfod is saying (and taking way too frickin’ long to say) is that Elder is not “authentic.”

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Yup, kind of like when Billy Richardson said Ted Cruz
wasn’t “brown eough”.

Funny how the American Left has outright rejected the
Words of Wisdom by Dr. Martin Luther King in the 60′s.

Judge a Man by the COLOR of his skin, in fact, the various
HUES of the COLOR of his skin.

To all my compatriots on this site, please don’t feed that gastrointestinal Burb, AKA libfree.

thanks,

ToddPA on July 18, 2013 at 2:54 PM

It’s instructive to watch the lot of you vacillate between condemning early-Democrats for their racism and lynchings while employing the same arguments and ideology as many lynch mobs.

Capitalist Hog on July 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Such as? Edumacate us all, I’m sure we’ll just love it.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 2:55 PM

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