War: Larry Elder versus Piers Morgan on the Zimmerman trial

posted at 11:21 am on July 18, 2013 by Allahpundit

Actually, this isn’t about the trial so much as it’s about media orthodoxy regarding the trial’s supposed Larger Truths. And it’s not a war so much as it is Elder indicting Morgan — relentlessly — for his own small role in nurturing that orthodoxy, specifically in his treatment of Rachel Jeantel. I’ll give Piers credit for this much: Not every cable news host would arrange a segment for the express purpose of having a guest tear him apart on air. Elder came loaded for bear and Morgan let him go for 11 full minutes. Good lord. Coming soon on “Piers Morgan,” presumably: An array of gun-rights experts spends the full hour patiently explaining why Piers is a cancer on America.

Speaking of nurturing orthodoxies, I wonder when Holder’s planning to break it to America that the DOJ isn’t filing federal charges against Zimmerman and never seriously considered doing so given how weak the evidence is for a hate-crimes case.


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libneverfree is the race huckster of HA, a professor who made it in life based only on:

1. his hue

2. the contribution of taxpayers who toiled for his privy life

…so that the can emulate Sharpton.

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 12:33 PM

I’m just shocked you didn’t call Elder an Uncle Tom.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 11:44 AM

He might as well.

22044 on July 18, 2013 at 12:34 PM

How many languages do you speak, Piers?

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 11:37 AM

Just one: Slimy Weasel.

VekTor on July 18, 2013 at 12:34 PM

The occasional Black Democrat who does this as well like Leo Terell or the Bluedog democrat in Louisiana, State Sen. Guillory who switched parties…is the icing.

workingclass artist on July 18, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Terrell blasted Juan Williams over the Zimmerman case and basically accused him of making money as a race hustler.

I provided a link to the video above.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 12:34 PM

Bold decision

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Just one: Slimy Weasel.

VekTor on July 18, 2013 at 12:34 PM

Indeed…if he’d speak a few he could ask Elder…otherwise what was his point?

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Oooh, the ‘Red Shirts’!

The most prominent progressive media figure of 1898 was the editor of North Carolina’s Raleigh News & Observer, one Josephus Daniels. Daniels carried all manner of clout in American progressive circles of the day.

As Bruce Bartlett records in his seminal work Wrong on Race: The Democratic Party’s Buried Past, it was Daniels who began touting the presidential timber of Woodrow Wilson as early as 1886, when then-Professor Wilson was just a lowly visiting academic at Cornell but attracted Daniels’s attention with a speech in North Carolina. Daniels, famously, would later wind up managing Wilson’s winning 1912 presidential campaign and be appointed Secretary of the Navy, where he promptly segregated the Navy in line with both his and Wilson’s segregationist beliefs. Later Daniels would support the presidential ambitions of his Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Franklin D. Roosevelt, winning an appointment as U.S. Ambassador to Mexico.

But the story here is of Daniels’s role and that of the News & Observer in 1898 in what Bartlett refers to as “the only confirmed coup d’etat in American history,” when the paper, under Daniels’ leadership, moved to overthrow the elected government of Wilmington, North Carolina — at gun point. Why? Because the Republican office holders, working with blacks and state Republicans, had (Bartlett again) “moved quickly to expand voting rights for blacks, who had been largely disenfranchised by literacy tests, poll taxes and other measures enacted by Democrats following the end of Reconstruction…..Daniels used it (the News & Observer) any way he could to end Republican control and restore Democrats to office, primarily by playing the race card shamelessly.”

Just as with MSNBC and its liberal media race-card-playing pals today and their drive to influence enough people to legally lynch the Hispanic Zimmerman, Daniels did everything he could to inject race into the idea of running the duly elected government of Wilmington out of office. Daniels later proudly proclaimed the paper “the militant voice of White Supremacy” and crowed of his success in intimidating North Carolinians, and that the paper “did not fail in what was expected, sometimes going to extremes in its partisanship.”

Daniels used the 1898 version of MSNBC’s relentless Zimmerman-is-guilty high-tech lynch-mob approach. “Among other things,” writes Bartlett, Daniels “published the names of every black office holder in the state, accused the Republican Party of slandering white women, and published front-page stories of all cases in which a black justice of the peace or sheriff had the temerity to force a white man to obey the law in the run-up to the 1898 election.” Daniels even “defended the Red Shirts, a racist group similar to the Ku Klux Klan that had been active in South Carolina and spread across the border into North Carolina in 1898. The Wilmington Race Riot Commission called the Red Shirts ‘effectively a terrorist arm of the Democratic Party.’”

MSNBC Sets Out To Lynch A Hispanic Man…So Typically Progressive

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 12:37 PM

I like Larry very much but I don’t see how he did well on this interview. He came across as a hothead that wouldn’t answer questions. Too bad. Opportunity lost by getting sidetracked so much.

princetrumpet on July 18, 2013 at 12:39 PM

Haven’t heard from Bill Cosby on Saint Trayvon. Anyone?

slickwillie2001 on July 18, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Here ya go…

“Bill Cosby has weighed in on the Trayvon Martin case.

The famed comedian told the Washington Times that neighborhood watch volunteers like George Zimmerman, who shot and killed the unarmed black teenager, should not be allowed to carry guns.

“We’ve got to get the gun out of the hands of people who are supposed to be on neighborhood watch,” Cosby said in his first public remarks about the case, published today.

“Without a gun, I don’t see Mr. Zimmerman approaching Trayvon by himself,” Cosby added. “The power-of-the-gun mentality had him unafraid to confront someone. Even police call for backup in similar situations.

“When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody.”

“The Cosby Show” star’s remarks were immediately circulated on the Web, including conservative sites that took issue with Cosby’s pinpointing “the gun” as the problem.

Cosby, 74, steered clear of mentioning race in a case that has sparked allegations of racism and a nationwide outcry for justice. In the past, however, he has been unafraid to jump into the fray and has even caused controversy of his own.

In the late 1980s, Cosby inserted himself into the case of Tawana Brawley, a black teenage girl who said she was sexually assaulted by six white men, including a police officer and an assistant district attorney. Cosby pledged his public support to her and contributed to a $25,000 reward for information in the case.

“Bill and I don’t care who the perpetrators are, whether they’re black, white, pink, yellow or family. They should be caught,” Essence magazine publisher Edward Lewis, who also contributed to the reward, told People at the time.

A grand jury later found insufficient evidence of a rape, and Brawley and her advisers — including Rev. Al Sharpton, who was thrust into the spotlight — were successfully sued for defamation. The incident inflamed racial tension nationwide.

Nearly two decades later, Cosby stirred racial tension, this time within the black community. During a 2004 NAACP celebration marking the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education school-desegregation decision by the U.S. Supreme Court, Cosby upbraided poor black parents for buying their children expensive sneakers but not teaching them proper English.

“These people marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education and now we’ve got these knuckleheads walking around,” Cosby said at the event.

“I can’t even talk the way these people talk: ‘Why you ain’t,’ ‘Where you is’ … and I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk,” Cosby continued. “And then I heard the father talk. … Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.”

After his comments sparked a nationwide debate, Cosby said in a statement that he meant for his remarks to be a call to action.

“I feel that I can no longer remain silent,” he said. “If I have to make a choice between keeping quiet so that conservative media does not speak negatively or ringing the bell to galvanize those who want change in the lower economic community, then I choose to be a bell ringer.”

Since then, Cosby, who has a doctorate degree in education, has continued to espouse responsible parenting, the importance of good education and personal accountability.

“Stand up and stop looking for somebody to blame,” he told an audience of community association leaders in 2008…”

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/bill-cosby-breaks-silence-trayvon-martin/story?id=16102168

workingclass artist on July 18, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Haven’t heard from Bill Cosby on Saint Trayvon. Anyone?

slickwillie2001 on July 18, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Bill Cosby’s son, Ennis, was murdered by one bloody, evil, Ukrainian dude.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 12:40 PM

“All these hearings…F&F, Benghazi, IRS…Why?!”.
Chaffetz.

Um…

verbaluce on July 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM

The occasional Black Democrat who does this as well like Leo Terell or the Bluedog democrat in Louisiana, State Sen. Guillory who switched parties…is the icing.

workingclass artist on July 18, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Terrell blasted Juan Williams over the Zimmerman case and basically accused him of making money as a race hustler.

I provided a link to the video above.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 12:34 PM

Yeah…I saw that.

Thanks for posting the link

workingclass artist on July 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mmcnamer1 on July 18, 2013 at 12:43 PM

Racist! Racism! Race! Race! Race!

That’s racist! They are racists!

America is racist! HA is filled with racists!

libOffOfOthersOrDie … on “everyday on HA”

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 12:37 PM

All historians of the Progressive Era are more than aware of the relationship between Progressivism and white supremacy. A good friend of mine recently published a book on the matter: http://www.amazon.com/Racism-Nations-Service-Government-Workers/dp/1469607204/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374165645&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Wilson+and+Progressive+and+Race+and+DC

Or you can check out Dorothy Roberts work on Margaret Sanger, the book is entitled Killing The Black Body, its quite fascinating.

But the point, RWM. Is Kingfisher suggested that whites do not engage in racial mob violence. I only offered up some of the most famous cases. There are so many more. Lets not forget the story of Mary Turner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Turner

Or Sundown towns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:44 PM

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Facts drive you into a rage for some reason, why is that?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:45 PM

I don’t understand how conservatives can call Al Sharpton a race hustler, but not recognize that Larry Elder is a hustler in reverse, he just works off white racial resentment to get paid. These things are just obvious.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 11:31 AM

Gosh, thanks for that info, liveasaslaveanddie.

I guess it takes a race hustler to recognize another race hustler.

Uh, wouldn’t a “hustler in reverse” just be a non-hustler?

Jus’ axin’.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 12:46 PM

I wonder if Kingfisher will respond to my comment at 12:27pm…..

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Now wait just a second here. A black man schools a white man using logic and an honest recitation of the facts, and everyone here is loving this?

But… He’s black? And you all are conservatives? It’s almost like you’re judging Elder solely on his positions and on the content of his character?

Does not compute! Does not compute!

Sound of LibFree’s head exploding…

CaptFlood on July 18, 2013 at 12:48 PM

libneverfree is the race huckster of HA, a professor who made it in life based only on:

1. his hue

2. the contribution of taxpayers who toiled for his privy life

…so that the can emulate Sharpton.

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 12:33 PM

I’ve never seen libslave, so how did you know he/she was Green?

kirkill on July 18, 2013 at 12:48 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:44 PM

So true. Progressives are just straight up racists.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 12:48 PM

That Al Sharpton?

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 11:43 AM

Man…that set folks off more that I though it would.
I’m not a Sharpton fan.
Though for sure you are less of one.
I was just needling on Elders histrionics.
If he has some points to make – and I’m sure he does – he could work on presenting them a little less hysterically.

verbaluce on July 18, 2013 at 12:49 PM

Facts drive you into a rage for some reason, why is that?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:45 PM

We won’t know, you never present any.

22044 on July 18, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Man…that set folks off more that I though it would.
I’m not a Sharpton fan.
Though for sure you are less of one.
I was just needling on Elders histrionics.
If he has some points to make – and I’m sure he does – he could work on presenting them a little less hysterically.

verbaluce on July 18, 2013 at 12:49 PM

Yeah, because he might incite riots, or something, where people get killed.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Bill Cosby’s son, Ennis, was murdered by one bloody, evil, Ukrainian dude.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 12:40 PM

I remember that case…cold blooded murder.

The murderer later dropped his appeal saying in a letter that he was guilty and regretted the murder.

Bill Cosby petitioned prosecutors not to seek the death penalty…established a foundation & scholarship in the name of his son.

workingclass artist on July 18, 2013 at 12:50 PM

So true. Progressives are just straight up racists.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 12:48 PM

Are you accountable for every statement or action made by any Republican in history regarding race relations?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:50 PM

White racists? Sure. Nearly all of them are progressives and liberals.

22044 on July 18, 2013 at 12:51 PM

We won’t know, you never present any.

22044 on July 18, 2013 at 12:50 PM

See my post at 12:27

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Facts drive you into a rage for some reason, why is that?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:45 PM

You mistake laughter, at you, for rage.

You ignore all facts you do not like.

You cherry pick your facts like a 9-11 truther and provide many “facts” that on casual inspection turn out to be fiction.

You are a retread race baiting bigotted troll hanging out on a conservative blog. Why is that?

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 12:51 PM

All historians of the Progressive Era are more than aware of the relationship between Progressivism and white supremacy. A good friend of mine recently published a book on the matter: http://www.amazon.com/Racism-Nations-Service-Government-Workers/dp/1469607204/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374165645&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Wilson+and+Progressive+and+Race+and+DC

Or you can check out Dorothy Roberts work on Margaret Sanger, the book is entitled Killing The Black Body, its quite fascinating.

But the point, RWM. Is Kingfisher suggested that whites do not engage in racial mob violence. I only offered up some of the most famous cases. There are so many more. Lets not forget the story of Mary Turner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Turner

Or Sundown towns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:44 PM

When was the most recent case of racial mob violence (white on black)?

Was it worse than inner city black-on-black violence?

Do you think the most pressing issues of the “black community” are racial mob violence or the disintegration of the black family?

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Man..Hall is not giving Issa what he wants…at all.
I think he’ll see less direct questions from the Repubs as this thing moves fwd.
This hearing needs a Gowdy soliloquy.

verbaluce on July 18, 2013 at 12:52 PM

What do you expect from a guy who did such a poor job representing his own community (Brit journalists in the UK) that he was, effectively, exiled from the land of his birth?

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 12:52 PM

I’ll accept your idiotic comments as fact when white people start race-related riots.

Kingfisher on July 18, 2013 at 11:46 AM

Next time, you need to limit your statement to white people, who are not Democrats. The overwhelming majority of examples cited by liveenslavedthendie were race riots that were clearly started by white, ethnic Democrats/’Progressives.’ If you go through his list, it becomes very clear.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 12:53 PM

verbaluce on July 18, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Oops –
wrong thread.
Sorry.

verbaluce on July 18, 2013 at 12:53 PM

I’ve never seen libslave, so how did you know he/she was Green?

kirkill on July 18, 2013 at 12:48 PM

I have, seen him.

He’s black, in- and outside.

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2013 at 12:54 PM

I wonder if Kingfisher will respond to my comment at 12:27pm…..

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Libby? Rachel Jeantel? Gay rapist? What’s the deal?

oldroy on July 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM

Blake on July 18, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Larry’s part Cajun–who knew?

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM

I like Larry very much but I don’t see how he did well on this interview. He came across as a hothead that wouldn’t answer questions. Too bad. Opportunity lost by getting sidetracked so much.

princetrumpet on July 18, 2013 at 12:39 PM

No, he didn’t. He was using the show to address a national audience on the real issues. Morgan was trying to get him to say Jeantel was stupid (which she clearly is) and make it all about her. Larry wouldn’t bite.

Blake on July 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM

Man..Hall is not giving Issa what he wants…at all.
I think he’ll see less direct questions from the Repubs as this thing moves fwd.
This hearing needs a Gowdy soliloquy.

verbaluce on July 18, 2013 at 12:52 PM

There is no ‘Hall’ testifying.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 12:57 PM

To answer Morgan’s stupid question, Jeantel is retarded…wait for it…SIR!

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 12:57 PM

When was the most recent case of racial mob violence (white on black)?

Was it worse than inner city black-on-black violence?

Do you think the most pressing issues of the “black community” are racial mob violence or the disintegration of the black family?

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 12:51 PM

As usual, you move the goal posts. My post was in response to a rather cavalier claim that there’s no such thing as white mob violence. That’s just false. If you’re conceding your fellow conservative is historically ignorant I’ll be happy to answer those questions.

1. Is your claim that police violence is somehow not “mob violence?” If so, then we simply disagree on the terms and won’t be able to come to an agreement on your question.

2. Data helps: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/15/the-trayvon-martin-killing-and-the-myth-of-black-on-black-crime.html

3. I do not think racial mob violence is the most pressing issue facing the black community. That would be poverty and mass incarceration via the War on drugs, the later of which produces most of the former.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:58 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Sure, when you admit that you view the world through your irreparable racist lens.

Where’s Del? We need to start a sundial.

22044 on July 18, 2013 at 12:59 PM

Are you accountable for every statement or action made by any Republican in history regarding race relations?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Seriously? Man, you’re a piece of work. You constantly ignore the individual opinions of people around here and always judge in the aggregate. You are is obsessed with race and can’t seem to judge anything without first applying a racial lens. You have never shown a single inclination to concern yourself with the particular facts of any given issue, but to exclusively adopt the generalized (and always wrong) theme held by most leftists. And you are seriously asking me this question?

Ignoring the above though progressivism is racist, and it always has been. When a majority of progressives adopt policies and ideas that do nothing but harm minorities, yes they can be painted with a broad brush.

Go on, call me a small government, liberty loving, gun toting conservative. I don’t mind.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Man…that set folks off more that I though it would.
I’m not a Sharpton fan.
Though for sure you are less of one.
I was just needling on Elders histrionics.
If he has some points to make – and I’m sure he does – he could work on presenting them a little less hysterically.

verbaluce on July 18, 2013 at 12:49 PM

You give yourself too much credit, luv.

I Don’t Hate To Say It: Told You So, MSM, Obama, Holder, Etc…

Hope you didn’t break your arm patting yourself on the back for that EPIC FAIL.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 12:53 PM

How do you explain Sundown Towns then? Which existed as far northwest as Oregon, throughout the Land of Lincoln, and into the South. Regardless of whether party politics was even part of the culture, sundown towns were ubiquitous.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:01 PM

2. Data helps: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/15/the-trayvon-martin-killing-and-the-myth-of-black-on-black-crime.html

So, it’s a myth?

Who kills most blacks?

Who commits most crimes against blacks?

The DOJ statistics do not lie.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:02 PM

I wonder if Kingfisher will respond to my comment at 12:27pm…..

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Libby? Rachel Jeantel? She seems to be saying that everything we were told about Martin and Zimmerman were false. The bigotry was Trayvon’s homophobia. The first punch was Trayvon. Rachel goosed him into thinking Zimmerman might be a rapist because he was gay. And you know, Trayvon’s brother was back at the house, and Trayvon not going that way and all.

No answer? Could you tell us if all gay people are rapists? Rachel seems to think that might be possible.

oldroy on July 18, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Dear God.

Not another History of Racism in America Lecture by the perfesser.

C’mon Moderators, this is getting old.

kingsjester on July 18, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Uh, wouldn’t a “hustler in reverse” just be a non-hustler?

Jus’ axin’.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 12:46 PM

Non-hustler == lazy == shiftless..?

Racist…

affenhauer on July 18, 2013 at 1:04 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Just this past Tuesday, July 16, 2013, Latinos were attacked in rioting in LA.

Did you year about the two white boys killed in Jacksonville for having pro-Zimmerman stickers on their truck?

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:04 PM

Did you year about the two white boys killed in Jacksonville for having pro-Zimmerman stickers on their truck?

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:04 PM

But. But. But… nobody has been killed. It’s all peaceful and stuff.

oldroy on July 18, 2013 at 1:06 PM

As usual, you move the goal posts. My post was in response to a rather cavalier claim that there’s no such thing as white mob violence. That’s just false. If you’re conceding your fellow conservative is historically ignorant I’ll be happy to answer those questions.

1. Is your claim that police violence is somehow not “mob violence?” If so, then we simply disagree on the terms and won’t be able to come to an agreement on your question.

2. Data helps: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/15/the-trayvon-martin-killing-and-the-myth-of-black-on-black-crime.html

3. I do not think racial mob violence is the most pressing issue facing the black community. That would be poverty and mass incarceration via the War on drugs, the later of which produces most of the former.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:58 PM

I’m not moving the goal posts. But you are. I never claimed that there weren’t any examples ever of white racial mob violence. And I suspect that the original poster you were responding to was talking about more modern times. You are being disingenuous on this account.

As for police violence being “mob violence” we’re going to disagree. Though this is an interesting line of inquiry.

How many gun deaths occurred in Chicago in the last month? How much police “mob violence” occurred in Chicago during the same time period?

Name the top 10 worst cities for police “mob violence”, the top 10 worst cities for inner city crime, poverty etc. How many of these are Democrat strongholds? Are you really suggesting that blacks are powerless in areas where they are a majority and/or have Democrats ruling over them? Because it sounds like you are accusing the modern Democrat party of perpetrating this “mob violence”.

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:06 PM

The retread race baiting bigoted troll has managed to hijack a thread about a respected intelligent black, Larry Elder — who took issue with lib, lefty, and MSM lies, falsehoods, and untruths regarding the Zimmerman case — into a discussion of white supremacy in America a hundred years ago. After basically calling Elder a tool of The Man, a traitor to his race, and an Uncle Tom.

That is, it did what it always tries to do. If it’s not charges of racism in contemporary America it’s all about racism in US history.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:06 PM

Libby? Did you get caught with your intellectual pants down on the gay rapist comments by Rachel?

oldroy on July 18, 2013 at 1:08 PM

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:02 PM

Read the essay. 94% of black crime victims are hurt by black people….and 86% of white crime victims are hurt by black people. Is that 8% difference so monumentally huge that it rationalizes there not being *ONE* person in the media or on blogs who writes about “white on white crime?” Of course not. Black on black crime exists, but its centerpiece within conservative arguments about racial inequality is based upon some very faulty assumptions. Crime, as the essay points out, has everything to do with opportunity and proximity. That explains the high white on white crime rate and high black on black crime rate.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Just this past Tuesday, July 16, 2013, Latinos were attacked in rioting in LA.

Did you year about the two white boys killed in Jacksonville for having pro-Zimmerman stickers on their truck?

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:04 PM

I’m sure those were White Hispanics who have a long history of profiting from White Hispanic privilege.

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:09 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Zimmerman’s folks must live in one of your towns. Apparently, they have to hide during daylight hours, too, lest they be lynched by your fellow liberals.

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 1:10 PM

Facts drive you into a rage for some reason, why is that?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:45 PM

You mean like the facts on the McClatchy topic about SYG states, which you moronically tried to refute with a single bar graph that has no actual statistical merit?

Lulz.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:10 PM

Libby? Did you get caught with your intellectual pants down on the gay rapist comments by Rachel?

oldroy on July 18, 2013 at 1:08 PM

It ignores all unpleasant facts.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:11 PM

Read the essay. 94% of black crime victims are hurt by black people….and 86% of white crime victims are hurt by black people. Is that 8% difference so monumentally huge that it rationalizes there not being *ONE* person in the media or on blogs who writes about “white on white crime?” Of course not. Black on black crime exists, but its centerpiece within conservative arguments about racial inequality is based upon some very faulty assumptions. Crime, as the essay points out, has everything to do with opportunity and proximity. That explains the high white on white crime rate and high black on black crime rate.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:09 PM

You’re wondering why conservatives make a point of the rate of black on black and black on white crime when liberals like yourself make it a daily habit of heaping all the problems of minorities and the poor and racism and all the rest of it? Liberals make outlandish claims and conservatives destroy those claims with facts and then you wonder why we do so? Really?

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:12 PM

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:11 PM

If they know that you will get the better of them,the perfesser and the pompous one will ignore you and whatever question you post.

kingsjester on July 18, 2013 at 1:13 PM

How do you explain Sundown Towns then? Which existed as far northwest as Oregon, throughout the Land of Lincoln, and into the South. Regardless of whether party politics was even part of the culture, sundown towns were ubiquitous.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:01 PM

I should have been more clear in my first sentence so as to be consistent with my second.

Next time, you need to limit your statement to white people, who are not Democrats. The overwhelming majority of examples cited by liveenslavedthendie were race riots that were clearly started by white, ethnic Democrats/’Progressives.’ If you go through his list, it becomes very clear.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 12:53 PM

To be fair, however, I didn’t know enough about the identities of some of the other white groups, such as that involved in the Chicago airport case, to make a broader inference.

History is replete with white racial mobs although there are far more examples, to be fair, of white-on-white, white-on-Jew (if you consider Jewish to be a race). In some areas of English history, they used to refer to riots between various Scottish clans or Irish Catholics and English Protestants as ‘race’ riots. Also, there were, obviously, race riots against Jews such as Kristallnacht.

As for whites starting riots, a perfect example of that is the French Revolution.

So, yes, white people have started innumerable riots in the history of civilisation, as have ever other racial, religious, and ethnic group.

I think the more relevant question should be ‘Why are riots still happening?’

With regard to that question, whites start or engage in many riots after football (not so much American football) games, but so do Hispanics (Brazilians just beheaded and quartered a referee during a game) and Arabs (see Suez riots in 2012).

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:13 PM

Name the top 10 worst cities for police “mob violence”, the top 10 worst cities for inner city crime, poverty etc. How many of these are Democrat strongholds? Are you really suggesting that blacks are powerless in areas where they are a majority and/or have Democrats ruling over them? Because it sounds like you are accusing the modern Democrat party of perpetrating this “mob violence”.

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:06 PM

If you look in the 1980s, black communities and black mayors organized and fought for the intensification of the War on Drugs, the hardening of sentencing, the expansion of mandatory minimums. These facts trouble both progressive and conservative mythologies about race relations. They trouble progressive rhetoric which doesn’t want to talk about the role of black leaders in perpetuating a War on Drugs which has devastated black communities. It fouls up conservative thinkers who claim that “race hustlers” ignore “black on black” crime and only focus on white racism. So the short answer is that these things are much more complicated than either side is really willing to talk about.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:13 PM

Black on black crime exists, but its centerpiece within conservative arguments about racial inequality is based upon some very faulty assumptions.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:09 PM

What assumptions?

Poor whites and poor Hispanics don’t come close to the violent crime of poor Blacks.

This is just another example of you and the black community failing to take responsibility for their actions.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:14 PM

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Facts drive you into a rage for some reason, why is that?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:45 PM

And facts cause you to slink off and hide for a while.

Why is that?

Jus’ axin’.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 1:15 PM

1. Is your claim that police violence is somehow not “mob violence?” If so, then we simply disagree on the terms and won’t be able to come to an agreement on your question.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:58 PM

So wait, the police are a violent mob, yet you don’t want people to have the right to defend themselves via SYG laws, meaning they need to rely on the police….who are a violent mob.

Outstanding logic, lib.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:16 PM

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:13 PM

It’s understandable, when the black community sees Len Bias and others die due to illegal drugs.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:18 PM

I don’t understand how conservatives can call Al Sharpton a race hustler, but not recognize that Larry Elder is a hustler in reverse, he just works off white racial resentment to get paid. These things are just obvious.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 11:31 AM

Really? Is it so hard to follow the difference? Al Sharpton tells black people that the white man, and all of society, is against them. In fact, as you well know from your own field of study, he’s telling them that our society IS the white man, and all built for the white man and against everyone else.

So Al Sharpton says black people are victims who are being oppressed.

Larry Elder says quit being a victim and work to get ahead, and this so-called racist society is a gold mine of opportunity for those prepared to work for it.

One tells black people that they’re victims, which fosters feelings of helplessness and rage. The other says if you’re prepared to work for it, you can get ahead as a black man or black woman, which fosters feelings of empowerment.

Simply put, the Al Sharptons of the nation make black culture unhealthy, while the Larry Elders of the nation make black culture healthy.

More than that, Larry Elder’s message even transcends race. That is, even though he’s speaking to the black population, what he says is every bit as applicable to any subculture in America.

Koreans and Vietnamese immigrants came to this country with nothing, and are doing quite well for themselves. In my opinion, the biggest single difference between these subcultures and African-American subcultures is the breakdown of the family in the African-American subculture.

And if you look at the statistical differences between whites and blacks in this country and correct for broken homes, many of the povery and education differences between blacks and whites start disappearing.

If you really want to talk about larger issues of the Zimmerman trial, talk about the fact that Trayvon Martin came from a broken home with very limited supervision. His parents claim they were not even aware he had been caught with stolen property in school. Either the schools were hiding the information, or the parents were not doing their jobs raising Trayvon Martin.

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 18, 2013 at 1:18 PM

The “creepy ass cracka” and “nigga” conversations are coming from a place so intelligently superior than most of us can even comprehend. Obviously.

RDE2010 on July 18, 2013 at 1:18 PM

Read the essay. 94% of black crime victims are hurt by black people….and 86% of white crime victims are hurt by black people. Is that 8% difference so monumentally huge that it rationalizes there not being *ONE* person in the media or on blogs who writes about “white on white crime?” Of course not. Black on black crime exists, but its centerpiece within conservative arguments about racial inequality is based upon some very faulty assumptions. Crime, as the essay points out, has everything to do with opportunity and proximity. That explains the high white on white crime rate and high black on black crime rate.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:09 PM

But, the white crime rate is NOT as high as the black crime rate. In fact, it is in line with that seen in European countries, which is to which Progressives always point.

The overwhelming majority of homicide victims are black and they are overwhelmingly killed by blacks. Those are just the facts.

And, you can talk all that you want about opportunity and proximity, but the fact remains that the crime rate is disproportionately high in the black community, i.e., higher than its numbers in proportion to the overall population. Gangs and drugs are primarily the cause; yet, rather than being treated with the same scorn that is heaped upon ‘whitey,’ they are glorified.

And, please, don’t say ‘Puh-lease.’ I really don’t want to have to deal with the HA censor and the lyrics of rap songs.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:18 PM

If they know that you will get the better of them,the perfesser and the pompous one will ignore you and whatever question you post.

kingsjester on July 18, 2013 at 1:13 PM

The modus operandi of a troll.

Toss out race bait. Reply to only selected responses and comments. steer the discussion to favorites topic. Hi-jack the thread.

On the plus side, you can laugh at it and make fun of it knowing it is trying to ignore you but can’t resist reading everything anyone says about it, because any and all attention is what a troll seeks. Especially the masochistic ones.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

So true. Progressives are just straight up racists.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 12:48 PM

Are you accountable for every statement or action made by any Republican in history regarding race relations?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:50 PM

According to you, we are.

Goose…gander…sauce…you clown racist.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

I think the more relevant question should be ‘Why are riots still happening?’

Implicit in your statement is that black racial violence is *EXTREMELY RARE* You can point to the late 60s urban riots, the LA riots, Oakland after Oscar Grant and very very few others. Whereas white racial violence is spread throughout US history. I think an even more pressing question is, does a community need to engage in mob violence if they feel the state represents their interests. If you look at whiteracial violence throughout history, those are all instances when that group of whites felt disfranchised. Even in the most heinous examples, Rosewood, Tulsa, Wilmington, the rioters felt that black citizenship encroached on their citizenship rights (who can blame them, citizenship was only for whites for so long).

So its quite likely that the decline in white racial violence is the result of two factors:

1. We are overall a less violent society than we used to. We rely more upon the state to enact violence on our behalf rather than taking the law into our own hands. This is why I refer to police violence as “mob violence” it is merely an upward distribution of violence to the state.

2. Fewer whites burn with the iron clad belief that the state does not represent them as citizens.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

I like Larry very much but I don’t see how he did well on this interview. He came across as a hothead that wouldn’t answer questions. Too bad. Opportunity lost by getting sidetracked so much.

princetrumpet on July 18, 2013 at 12:39 PM

Larry was spot on. He wasn’t going to sit back and make nice with PM. Martin/Zimmerman is an isolated incident. You must be a person who likes to “compromise.”

alanstern on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

If you look in the 1980s, black communities and black mayors organized and fought for the intensification of the War on Drugs, the hardening of sentencing, the expansion of mandatory minimums. These facts trouble both progressive and conservative mythologies about race relations. They trouble progressive rhetoric which doesn’t want to talk about the role of black leaders in perpetuating a War on Drugs which has devastated black communities. It fouls up conservative thinkers who claim that “race hustlers” ignore “black on black” crime and only focus on white racism. So the short answer is that these things are much more complicated than either side is really willing to talk about.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:13 PM

I agree with you there – that things are more complicated than people will usually admit.

I also agree that the War on Drugs has been a bad thing in general.

However, what isn’t so complicated is that liberals have made it very difficult to discuss these things in the public square because of how they approach race and the never-ceasing accusations of racism at the most innocuous things (Eric Holder may call others cowards for not engaging in a “discussion” about race but when even left-leaning reporters step one toe out of line with the liberal orthodoxy on this they get beat down) and they tie every other issue to the Civil Rights Movement. Conservatives can’t discuss any societal or cultural issue without being compared to segregationists.

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

It’s understandable, when the black community sees Len Bias and others die due to illegal drugs.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:18 PM

Len Bias. That brings back memories.

Most Maryland sports fans in the 80s remember where they were when he heard that he died.

22044 on July 18, 2013 at 1:21 PM

2. Fewer whites burn with the iron clad belief that the state does not represent them as citizens.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Fewer whites are progressives.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 1:22 PM

Elder totally trashed that smug, aristocratic-nose-in-the-air liberal Piers Morgan. Remember, too, when we signed a petition to deport him, the Brits had going of their own to not send him back there; they don’t want him, either.

BTW, you smug liberals — Who said this? (attribution at the bottom; no cheating!)

They’re standing on the corner and they can’t speak English.
I can’t even talk the way these people talk:
Why you ain’t,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be…
And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.
And then I heard the father talk.
Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.
In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we’ve got these knuckleheads walking around.
The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.
These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.
$500 sneakers for what?
And they won’t spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.
Where were you when he was 2?
Where were you when he was 12?
Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn’t know that he had a pistol?
And where is the father? Or who is his father?
People putting their clothes on backward:
Isn’t that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn’t that a sign of something?

Isn’t it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?
What part of Africa did this come from??
We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don’t know a thing about Africa …..

I say this all of the time. It would be like white people saying they are European-American. That is totally stupid.
I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don’t have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany , Scotland , England , Ireland , or the Netherlands . The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa . So stop, already! ! !
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap ……… And all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back.
People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different ‘husbands’ — or men or whatever you call them now.
We have millionaire football players who cannot read.
We have million-dollar basketball players who can’t write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job.
Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard..
We cannot blame the white people any longer.’

~Dr.. William Henry ‘Bill’ Cosby, Jr., Ed..D.

Liam on July 18, 2013 at 1:24 PM

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Troll, resident cyber-stalker? Both/and? You decide.

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Whereas white racial violence is spread throughout US history.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Certainly not recent history.

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Morgan calls Larry Elder patronizing. I think I have never heard such a smugly patronizing elitist moron as Piers Morgan. He didn’t understand one point that Elder was making.

If he invited Larry Elder onto his program, he should stop talking over him every time the man made a valid point. But I guess he couldn’t let any opinion other than his own stand.

hachiban on July 18, 2013 at 1:26 PM

So its quite likely that the decline in white racial violence is the result of two factors:

1. We are overall a less violent society than we used to. We rely more upon the state to enact violence on our behalf rather than taking the law into our own hands. This is why I refer to police violence as “mob violence” it is merely an upward distribution of violence to the state.

2. Fewer whites burn with the iron clad belief that the state does not represent them as citizens.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Why don’t you apply this same thinking to taxation and regulation and the size and scope of government in general? Or do you like state violence when it bends society to the ends you like?

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Oh my God, Zimmerman is a racist!

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Truly a thing of beauty.

I wonder how far the investigators at the DOJ will get researching this tip before they say, “Hey! Waitaminnit!”

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 18, 2013 at 1:26 PM

So, it’s a myth?

Who kills most blacks?

Who commits most crimes against blacks?

The DOJ statistics do not lie.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:02 PM

The statistics lib states mean almost nothing outside of any reasonable contexts.

Of course the majority of white crime victims in places with super-majority white populations will be victimized by white assailants. Not exactly a huge black population in places like Montana, Idaho or Utah, is there?

Same is true of black crime victims in certain majority black areas like parts of Mississippi, Georgia and Louisiana.

But what about more integrated places like the metro areas of big cities like LA, Chicago, NYC, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. Sure, “white flight” meant a lot of the white population fled to the suburbs, but these are still highly integrated areas for the most part.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:26 PM

To answer Morgan’s stupid question, Jeantel is retarded…wait for it…SIR!

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 12:57 PM

I seriously doubt that Jeantel is actually”retarded“…

but she is certainly the desired product of the modern public education industry…in that development of whatever potential she may possess has, indeed, been retarded.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 1:27 PM

They trouble progressive rhetoric which doesn’t want to talk about the role of black leaders in perpetuating a War on Drugs which has devastated black communities.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:13 PM

Listen, I am a long-time opponent of the War on Drugs, but I think it is a complete cop-out to say that it is the cause of devastated black communities.

Do you believe that the black community would not be devastated if it was allowed to legally smoke crack and do smack?

One can argue, logically and consistently, that 1) the War on Drugs is not working; AND 2) drug use devastates families and communities.

#2 was true long before the War on Drugs. Alcoholism used to devastate entire neighbourhoods. Indeed, it weakened (weakens) entire countries. See Ireland in the 19th century and Russia in the 20th century and today.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Just watched this. Wow. Larry Elder absolutely destroys the charlatan Piers Morgan. I’m amazed CNN let Elder talk for as long as he did. I bet Elder is not invited back to CNN any time soon.

Captain Kirock on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

But, the white crime rate is NOT as high as the black crime rate. In fact, it is in line with that seen in European countries, which is to which Progressives always point.

The overwhelming majority of homicide victims are black and they are overwhelmingly killed by blacks. Those are just the facts.

And, you can talk all that you want about opportunity and proximity, but the fact remains that the crime rate is disproportionately high in the black community, i.e., higher than its numbers in proportion to the overall population.

You could have just said “the black crime rate is higher than the white crime rate.” We agree on that fact. But lets maybe throw in a few variables. What happens to black-white comparisons in the crime rate when we control for the poverty level of perpetrators? If black people are inherently more criminal, why has the black crime rate fallen so dramatically in the last 20 years? In other words. Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

Tenured trolls>Adjunct trolls

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Liam on July 18, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Cosby confuses them. Liberals don’t understand personal responsibility, and a black man preaching it defies liberal logic. They shut down internally and desperately look for something else to talk about.

NotCoach on July 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM

…the later of which produces most of the former.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 12:58 PM

“latter” look it up.

You know, for a jenuwine perfesser, you sure are too stupid to use proper English, Mr. Azzhoe.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 1:31 PM

This is why I refer to police violence as “mob violence” it is merely an upward distribution of violence to the state.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Why don’t you apply this same thinking to taxation and regulation and the size and scope of government in general? Or do you like state violence when it bends society to the ends you like?

gwelf on July 18, 2013 at 1:26 PM

All tyranny is equal, but some is more equal than others.

Resist We Much on July 18, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Excuse me.

Perfesser Azzhoe.

Solaratov on July 18, 2013 at 1:32 PM

If black people are inherently more criminal, why has the black crime rate fallen so dramatically in the last 20 years? In other words. Why does black on black crime actually matter as a thing in and of itself?

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:29 PM

Rudy Giuliani

sentinelrules on July 18, 2013 at 1:32 PM

2. Fewer whites burn with the iron clad belief that the state does not represent them as citizens.

libfreeordie on July 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

Pretty much all of us at this site don’t feel that the state properly represents us as citizens, yet we don’t go out and riot.

I know, I know, we can’t complain because of Jim Crow and Emmett Till and a bunch of other things that happened half a ****ing century ago or more. Aren’t conservatives supposed to be the ones “trapped in the past”?

Good Solid B-Plus on July 18, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Troll, resident cyber-stalker? Both/and? You decide.

Christien on July 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM

I was wondering how long that would take.

This is what usually happens when a site lets trolls run wild.

Reminds me of why I have absented myself from this place several times in the past. Only came back this time because of the Zimmerman trial. I wasn’t too surprised to find the same old stale race baiting troll still trolling around.

farsighted on July 18, 2013 at 1:33 PM

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