Does Marco Rubio really have an immigration problem in 2016?

posted at 6:41 pm on July 15, 2013 by Allahpundit

Jill Lawrence of National Journal says no, not really, and Conn Carroll of the Examiner says yes, absolutely. For the first time and probably last time, I think she’s closer to the truth than he is. Lawrence says that Rubio’s on safe-ish ground because, let’s face it, all of his likely opponents in the 2016 field (with the possible and notable exception of Ted Cruz) are also pro-reform. Carroll grants her point but argues that being pro-reform and being pro-crappy-Gang-of-Eight-bill are two different things:

Christie has not endorsed the actual bill Rubio produced, while Jindal and Perry have both recently come out against it. And while an erroneous AP report first suggested that Walker supported the Senate bill, The Weekly Standard quickly confirmed Walker did not, in fact, support it.

The reality is that the Schumer-Rubio bill is toxic among conservatives. Leaving the path to citizenship issue aside for a second, it creates a brand new government agency with the power to set wages for the entire agricultural sector of the economy. It also creates multiple slush funds that will funnel taxpayer dollars to leftist activist groups like La Raza and Casa de Maryland. There is nothing conservative about any of that.

Lawrence does admit that “Rubio’s favorability rating among Republicans nationally had dropped 15 points since February,” but, she says, “it is still at 58 percent.” But those numbers will continue to go down as long as Rubio is the face of the wretched Senate bill. And the Washington Post has tracked a similar tanking of Rubio’s popularity, from a 54 percent favorability rating last August to just 43 percent today…

But those Republicans most engaged on immigration are also those who are most informed on the issue and the most likely to influence their less-informed counterparts. And when any Republican finds out what is really in the bill, support for it craters.

Fair points all, but let me ask the Hot Air faithful: How confident are you that Christie, Jindal, Walker, Perry, or Paul Ryan would veto the Gang of Eight bill if they were president? Rubio isn’t the only Republican who posed as an immigration hawk earlier in his career, when it was advantageous for him to do so, only to reveal the amnesty fan within now. So did Kelly Ayotte. So did Dean Heller. So, to some extent, did McCain, who ran absurdly as a border hawk in 2010. As far as I can tell, the Republican establishment is passionately and almost monolithically in favor of immigration reform, and doesn’t seem to care terribly about the policy details in their haste to impress Latinos by getting something passed and commencing the big “re-branding.” There have been so many betrayals on this issue — and I say this as someone who’s reasonably well engaged on immigration, to borrow Conn’s phrase — that unless a particular pol has been doggedly outspoken against the Gang bill, as Jeff Sessions has, I assume they have no real objection to it. Maybe that’s unfair to particular pols, but that’s how it is. My trust in prominent Republicans to deal with this issue intelligently instead of caving in a blind political panic is down to zero unless they’ve given me good reason to think otherwise. Does Rand Paul, for instance, really object to the Gang bill because it’s too weak on border security, or is he simply maneuvering that way because he needs to get to Rubio’s right on a big issue ahead of 2016? On what planet are libertarians typically hard-asses about border control and amnesty?

That’s not to absolve Rubio of his sins in all this. He, more than anyone else in the party, helped make “legalization first” reform viable this year. His reversal so soon after running as an anti-amnesty tea-party candidate is a terribly cynical betrayal, one that won’t be forgotten. But when push comes to shove, I don’t think he’s any more ardently pro-reform than virtually any other 2016 contender. He saw a political opening here — achieve something big policy-wise that would impress moderates and burnish his “electability” credentials — and he took it. The rest of the field is now reacting to him. He’s going to lose some conservative votes over it, but not for a minute do I think that we’re going to get someone who’s appreciably more hardline on immigration if we nominate Christie or Walker instead. (Maybe we would with Jindal. I need to read more.) And for all the conservative votes he loses, he’s going to use the electability argument to offset them with moderates. He already had a strong peg for that before he took up immigration — as the party’s (and America’s) first potential Latino nominee, he could reach Latino voters in a way no one else could. Now that he has immigration and bipartisan cred on top of it, he’s that much more “electable.” That’ll win him some votes, even if it doesn’t win yours. “Electable” Republicans fare famously well in GOP primaries, and the last guy who benefited from that was a lot less charismatic (and conservative on balance) than Rubio. If polls circa 2015 show him pulling significantly more Latino votes in a hypothetical race against top Democrats, he’ll be just fine.

Semi-related exit question via Charles Cooke: Where’s the Scott Walker 2016 boomlet coming from among conservatives? Is he mainly a “none of the above” choice at this point?


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This is more like the third time you’ve given your calculus on Rubio, Allah. And I think you are failing to gauge the breakaway point we are at. The nation is so perilously close to losing itself permanently that politics as usual no longer is operative.

I broke away from the Pubs for the first time since Reagan last Nov. in the NY race that included gay marriage turncoat Salaand. And it felt liberating to do so. I’m sick of being played, and I know many many more feel the same way, and the Pub establishment simply is not going to change unless forced to.

Many go-along Pubs are going to find themselves losing to Dems because the Tea Party is not going to pull the lever for them as “least worst choice”. If we have to withdraw our support from the party, we will, even at the cost of losing the election (which we probably would have lost anyway if we are running a me-too Crat), in hopes of a massive party reform to set the stage for a last Pickett’s Charge.

paul1149 on July 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Who was the poster who got all hot and bothered because Romney spoke French. I can’t think of her name ACK.

gophergirl on July 15, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Mitt is very handsome, intelligent, attractive man. He looks like Matthew Fox’s, from Lost, distinguished, older brother. Plus it’s kinda sexy that he can speak French…..ooh la la!

sheryl on January 16, 2008 at 11:06 PM

sharrukin on July 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

sharrukin on July 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Beat me to it. ; )

Bmore on July 15, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Beat me to it. ; )

Bmore on July 15, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Absolutely unbelievable to me that someone would base their vote on something so superficial and publically admit it.

sharrukin on July 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

but the won the primary. and if Rubio is able to win the primary we’ll be stuck w/ hobson’s choice again.

chasdal on July 15, 2013 at 7:57 PM

Yes, the primary. Hmm, do you happen to know which states have open primaries, where Dims can influence who wins the Republican primary? Here’s a rundown:

- Alabama
- Arizona
- Arkansas
- Georgia
- Hawaii (Open primary for state, local, and congressional races; caucus system for presidential races.)
- Illinois
- Massachusetts (All races’ primaries open for “unenrolled”/unaffiliated voters only)
- Michigan
- Minnesota
- Mississippi
- Missouri
- New Hampshire
- North Carolina
- North Dakota
- South Carolina
- Tennessee
- Texas
- Vermont
- Virginia
- Wisconsin

So, I’m sorry, but as long as Dimocrats can simply register as a Republican or unaffiliated, temporarily, and vote in the Republican primary, you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t hold them as any kind of thermometer for gauging Conservative interest in a candidate. And neither should anyone else.

Meople on July 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

If people really want someone with experience, why aren’t Perry and Jindal at the top of everyone’s list? Is it because Perry does not exhibit the rhetorical eloquence necessary to be Preazy of the United Steazy? If that is your number one qualifier, then you should be happy with what we have right now. I like Jindal and Perry. Perry has come a long way in the last four or five years and I think he would do a good job if elected.

JAGonzo on July 15, 2013 at 8:16 PM

sharrukin on July 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Thank you!

gophergirl on July 15, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Meople on July 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Georgia is not open primary. You have to be registered as a Republican or Democrat for the primary.

Even if you are a registered Independent, cannot vote in primary.

General election is open to vote however you want, though.

Barred on July 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

How confident are you that Christie, Jindal, Walker, Perry, or Paul Ryan would veto the Gang of Eight bill if they were president?

Not confident at all. That’s why none of them will ever be president.

And FYI, getting the nomination and winning the election are two different things. I bet the same people saying Rubio doesn’t have an immigration problem were also saying Romney didn’t have a Romneycare problem.

Meanwhile, in the last poll, Rubio had dropped from first in Iowa to fifth. But no, he doesn’t have an immigration problem at all, lol.

xblade on July 15, 2013 at 8:23 PM

I will never vote for Marco Rubio. Period.

Lying bastard.

Cicero43 on July 15, 2013 at 6:57 PM

Yes, he is an opportunistic, lying little bastard. If he screwed us on amnesty, what would keep him from doing it to us on other issues? Nothing. He’s a crap weasel, pure and simple.

Conservchik on July 15, 2013 at 8:23 PM

By the way, I have no respect for Paul Ryan either. He lost me on the amnesty crap sandwich.

Conservchik on July 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Georgia is not open primary. You have to be registered as a Republican or Democrat for the primary.

Even if you are a registered Independent, cannot vote in primary.

General election is open to vote however you want, though.

Barred on July 15, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Well, that’s great. Do you actually put any stock at all in the Dimocrat voter registration records?

Like I said, all the Dims have to do is change their affiliation just prior to the primary and then switch it right back. Or don’t, as it sounds like they wouldn’t even have to go to the trouble for the general election. Just leave it as Republican and then just sometime later on change it right back to Dimocrat for the next mid-term. Rinse and Repeat.

Meople on July 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

…let me ask the Hot Air faithful: How confident are you that Christie, Jindal, Walker, Perry, or Paul Ryan would veto the Gang of Eight bill if they were president?

Not at all.

I’ll go third party if, after the primary process, it comes to that.

During the 2007 immigration fiasco was the first time in my life I considered my self a conservative rather than a republican. But I’ve continued to vote republican since then.

If the republicans nominate an amnesty shill I’ll vote third party. If the republicans pass “comprehensive” immigration through the house, I’ll vote third party for all national offices. I may vote republican for some State and local offices if the candidates are acceptable, but not for any national offices. No way, no how.

jaime on July 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM

I may not vote for the Democrat candidate if it’s between that and Rubio but I don’t see myself helping him into office.

I’d rather be stabbed in the front than the back… and honestly, is it better for the Republican party to continue its downward spiral in the name of “Not Obama”?

Ukiah on July 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM

Of course, they can always change their registration.

But that only works if their vote isn’t needed for their party in the primary.

Barred on July 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

If the republicans nominate an amnesty shill I’ll vote third party. If the republicans pass “comprehensive” immigration through the house, I’ll vote third party for all national offices. I may vote republican for some State and local offices if the candidates are acceptable, but not for any national offices. No way, no how.

jaime on July 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM

This captures my feelings perfectly.

Ukiah on July 15, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Of course, they can always change their registration.

But that only works if their vote isn’t needed for their party in the primary.

Barred on July 15, 2013 at 8:27 PM

While that’s technically true, everyone on the Dim side KNEW who their candidate was, so this could have been rampant in last year’s primary.

And still, there’s nothing that says they can’t just switch it back to Dimocrat for their primary. With the Dims registering everyone they possibly can, living or not, human or not, I think it’s safe to say that on their side, pretty much anything goes.

Meople on July 15, 2013 at 8:31 PM

And still, there’s nothing that says they can’t just switch it back to Dimocrat for their primary

Both primaries are voted on the same day.

Barred on July 15, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Rubio is a fraud and must never, ever come close to getting the nomination. Stop Rubio. Stop Rubio now. Rubio stabbed conservatives in the back and cannot and must not ever be trusted.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Both primaries are voted on the same day.

Barred on July 15, 2013 at 8:38 PM

So yeah, then it would depend on which primary they thought they needed to vote in the most. My guess is a lot of Dims would MUCH rather influence who the Republican nominee is.

I only have the past 2 Presidential elections as evidence that a centrist, Dimocrat-Lite, “moderate” Republican turned out to be pretty damn good for the Dimocrats.

Meople on July 15, 2013 at 8:42 PM

Meople on July 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Texas and Illinois have closed primaries.
InTexas you have to sign an affidavit that you really are the party that you’re voting.

annoyinglittletwerp on July 15, 2013 at 8:42 PM

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, especially when they have an incumbent running in their party.

But when they are running against a Republican incumbent they have to vote for a candidate they want to put up against the Republican.

Barred on July 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Absolutely unbelievable to me that someone would base their vote on something so superficial and publically admit it.
sharrukin on July 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Sheryl said nothing of the sort. She was merely pointing out that Mitt is handsome. Sorry you’re jealous that you don’t look even a fraction as good as he does. Pathetic that, just because Mitt made you feel inferior and inadequate, you have to act out your jealous ways on here by bashing him.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

On a shallow girly note – never under estimate the appeal of a Texas cowboy accent/persona.

:D

gophergirl on July 15, 2013 at 7:43 PM

Yeah, Rick and I talk a lot more like that and we’re both cowboys in a sense, having worked on (in his case) or owning (in my case) Texas ranches. While it may be appealing in a way, I think Ted’s softer and nuanced Texas accent is more appealing to the broader populace.

But, I get your point. Never had a problem on the East or West coasts striking up a conversation with a pretty woman, shallowish or not. ;-)

TXUS on July 15, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Ok. that’s all.

Don’t usually comment this much. lol

Barred on July 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM

He does with me.

Phuck Rubio.

BuckeyeSam on July 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM

What a pathetic insult to Cruz to minimize him as nothing more than “Palin’s guy.” Palin isn’t fit to shine Ted’s shoes. It’s great she supports him (as we all should), but let’s not pretend like he is “hers.”

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 7:49 PM

It appears Ted Cruz doesn’t share your view.

On Saturday at CPAC, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) introduced former Alaska Governor and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, whose endorsement enabled Cruz to ultimately get in the Texas Senate primary runoff in 2012 and win, and said he would not be in the Senate without Palin.

“I would not be in the U.S. Senate today if it were not for Governor Palin,” Cruz said in gratitude.

Cruz said Palin, like him, drives the mainstream media “bat-crap crazy” because she is “fearless,” “principled,” and “courageous” while the mainstream media wants conservatives to “shut up and accept defeat and be timid.”

bw222 on July 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Meople:
New Hampshire is not an open primary where dems can vote on the rep ballot or vice versa. Only unenrolled (called independent in some states) can walk in and choose either ballot…after you pick a ballot then you are enrolled in that party unless you physically go and fill out a form to “unenroll” yourself.

Of course about 45% of New Hampshire goes through all that trouble.

No Rubio…I may have left tge elephant party years ago, but istill have the memory of one.

NHElle on July 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

But, I get your point. Never had a problem on the East or West coasts striking up a conversation with a pretty woman, shallowish or not. ;-)
TXUS on July 15, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Perry’s problem is not that he has a strong accents. Perry’s problem is that he sounds like an idiot. I think we should aim a little higher than Rick “Oops!” Perry, if you don’t mind.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

By the way, I have no respect for Paul Ryan either. He lost me on the amnesty crap sandwich.

Conservchik on July 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Ditto. He’s a facetime weasel. I should have known. He was a Delt at my alma mater. And Delts were generally facetime weasels.

BuckeyeSam on July 15, 2013 at 8:48 PM

bw222 on July 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Get over Palin already, would you? The woman is a big nothing. She isn’t going to be running again, and she is an inarticulate mass and not the sort of person we should hold up as a spokesperson for conservatism.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:48 PM

By the way, I have no respect for Paul Ryan either. He lost me on the amnesty crap sandwich.
Conservchik on July 15, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Paul Ryan was a big disappointment. He wimped out in the debate against Biden, and now he is shilling for illegal alien amnesty. Get lost, Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Sheryl said nothing of the sort. She was merely pointing out that Mitt is handsome. Sorry you’re jealous that you don’t look even a fraction as good as he does. Pathetic that, just because Mitt made you feel inferior and inadequate, you have to act out your jealous ways on here by bashing him.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Mitt made you Sarah makes me feel inferior and inadequate, you I have to act out your my jealous ways on here by bashing him her.

Fixed it for you, Fish Face.

bw222 on July 15, 2013 at 8:50 PM

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:49 PM

While Ryan talks a good fiscal game, he has voted for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, TARP, the Auto Bailout and every debt ceiling increase.

bw222 on July 15, 2013 at 8:54 PM

NHElle on July 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Ok, that’s fine. But when Acorn or whatever they’re called this week, and the Organizer-in-Chief make it a priority to influence the Republican primary so he gets an opponent he can annihilate, I’m betting they could make a very substantial impact on that.

And as one final note, this kind of shenanigans, bending of the “rules” and under-handed trickery, is par for the course for Obama and his Chicago-style, thug politics.

Meople on July 15, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Rubio doesn’t have an immigration problem with me. He has a trust problem, as in, I would trust this SOB to pick up my trash.

If I’m confronted with having a choice of Rubio or anyone else, I’ll vote anyone else. Seriously, I’ll vote Dem candidate, which will be the first time in my life.

Dusty on July 15, 2013 at 8:54 PM

TXUS on July 15, 2013 at 8:44 PM

:)

gophergirl on July 15, 2013 at 8:55 PM

… I wouldn’t trust this SOB ….

Dusty on July 15, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Fixed.

Dusty on July 15, 2013 at 8:56 PM

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:48 PM

Those were Ted Cruz’s words, not mine. You should be telling Ted – not me – to get over Sarah Palin.

bw222 on July 15, 2013 at 8:56 PM

Sheryl said nothing of the sort. She was merely pointing out that Mitt is handsome. Sorry you’re jealous that you don’t look even a fraction as good as he does. Pathetic that, just because Mitt made you feel inferior and inadequate, you have to act out your jealous ways on here by bashing him.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

In case nobody had already said it, Bloo, you need to get over it. The election was nearly a year ago, and Mitt lost. There is no sense in continuing to rub anyone’s face in anything Romney related. It’s over, done… let it go…

Sheesh.

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on July 15, 2013 at 8:58 PM

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Hey Glueswill: you really are acting moronic-aren’t you.

annoyinglittletwerp on July 15, 2013 at 8:59 PM

It’s like banging your head against a brick wall – OY

gophergirl on July 15, 2013 at 9:01 PM

Romney had the good sense to bow out gracefully, too bad Bloo didn’t follow his excellent example.

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on July 15, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Rubio has no problem in 2016… because he has no chance in 2016.

Unless he runs as Hillary’s Veep.

profitsbeard on July 15, 2013 at 9:06 PM

I’m in the camp that sees the Republican party on very shaky ground with a significant part of the base voters. Rubio’s lying on immigration reform makes him politically dead to me.

If Rubio somehow becomes the choice of the Republican party, the party will also be politically dead to me. It will be third party time, no matter how difficult.

pilsener on July 15, 2013 at 9:08 PM

Rubio may not have totally destroyed his chance at the Presidential GOP nomination…….as we have seen, the establishment usually decides who we get in some way, shape, or form, BUT…….
And you can write this down….he will never win the Presidency. I am part of an ever growing group of voters who will never….ever….vote for him. I voted for Romney but millions stayed home on our side, and if a Rubio is nominated they will again, and this time so will I. Im not alone….not by a long shot.

Maybe Rubio gets 5% – 10% more Latino vote…..if he is very lucky. He could win the Latino vote and he would still lose. I dont think DC types have any clue what kind of insurrection is coming. The day amnesty passes, is the day the GOP guarantees itself Whig status with a whole generation of voters.

alecj on July 15, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Rubio is a fool. By betraying the base he’s chosen to pursue the votes of everyone except for the ones who might have actually voted for him. He’s willing to sacrifice conservative votes.
Never let it be said I don’t know how to take a hint.

lynncgb on July 15, 2013 at 9:21 PM

CHoosing between voting for Rubio or letting the dems win would be extremely tough, but Rubio reversed himself right away on a key part of his campaign. He is worse than an empty suit. Things are getting so bad so quickly that I am not sure what having a republican President would help us avoid. Rather let the dems own the whole collapse.

earlgrey133 on July 15, 2013 at 9:23 PM

Pathetic that, just because Mitt made you feel inferior and inadequate.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

How does that work? That is, how does the most inferior and inadequate nominee since… the last inferior and inadequate RINO nominee… produce feelings of inferiority and inadequacy in others? If anything, we’re bursting with frustrated puissant outrage just watching him, knowing we could do better.

rrpjr on July 15, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Carroll grants her point but argues that being pro-reform and being pro-crappy-Gang-of-Eight-bill are two different things:

That’s certainly how I feel. When 2016 rolls around, I won’t forget what Rubio did in going out on a limb to push the Gang of Eight bill. A whole lot of Republicans at one time or another make noise about a “path to citizenship,” but Rubio put himself in a class all by himself in defending a crap sandwich that reminds me too much with its length and pork and ugliness of the Obamacare bill earlier rammed through Congress.

We the people are generally pretty stupid and forgetful, I’ll admit, but we’re not so stupid that we’ll get this wrong.

I’ll tell you something he did over these last few months: He ruined his special Rubio brand. He’s been well admired for the slick way he can articulate conservative principles, but when he turned this talent he has against conservatives, he poisoned his rep forever.

He’ll find out.

Burke on July 15, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Piss on the little worm. Unless he is on fire, then don’t.

VorDaj on July 15, 2013 at 9:45 PM

gilled one, you never replied. Anything else?

Bmore on July 15, 2013 at 9:49 PM

If Jeb or Jeb’s Waterboy get the nomination bought for them, I’m not staying home, I’m voting Democrat. It’s time for a Bush mafia purge.

Shamnesty was not Rubio’s agenda. It was Jeb’s. Rubio has no morals, values, or ethics. Neither does Jeb, the dauphin.

The age of Bush is O.V.E.R. The Bush family is just as guilty for the state of the country.

The gopE does not represent me and they do not deserve my vote.

There is only 1 corrupt crony capitalist party in the “District of Corruption” anyway. If a conservative reformer does not get the nomination why vote gopE. Might as well keep the corruption you have.

The only hope of the gopE getting the message is if they are the permanent minority party. Voting gopE conservatives continue to vote against their own best interests and enable the corruptocrats.

Insanity is having the same behavior and expecting a different outcome. The gopE has no respect for you because you keep voting for them.

Besides if shamnesty passes it won’t matter.

Jayrae on July 15, 2013 at 9:50 PM

BuckeyeSam on July 15, 2013 at 8:48 PM

I too am an MU alumnus. class of 72. Other frat though.

hip shot on July 15, 2013 at 9:50 PM

Sheryl said nothing of the sort. She was merely pointing out that Mitt is handsome. Sorry you’re jealous that you don’t look even a fraction as good as he does. Pathetic that, just because Mitt made you feel inferior and inadequate, you have to act out your jealous ways on here by bashing him.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:43 PM

I feel inferior and inadequate to no one.
You, on the other hand, seem to have quite a few problems in this respect.

katy the mean old lady on July 15, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Until next time fish. *tab closing*

Bmore on July 15, 2013 at 10:06 PM

Rubio, I hope, is a political fa*t in the wind. Just smelly air that leaves a momentary stink, then fades away.

Conservchik on July 15, 2013 at 10:28 PM

Rubio vs. Dem . . . . I’ll write in a vote for Cruz or Sessions. Screw the repuke establishment.

Conservchik on July 15, 2013 at 10:34 PM

Fair points all, but let me ask the Hot Air faithful: How confident are you that Christie, Jindal, Walker, Perry, or Paul Ryan would veto the Gang of Eight bill if they were president?

Perry doesn’t have a problem vetoing legislation he doesn’t think is good legislation or to make a political point that opens possibilities for negotiations

In June 2001, following his first legislative session as George W. Bush’s successor, Governor Rick Perry vetoed 79 bills in one day. At the time, it was dubbed the “Father’s Day Massacre.” This so-called “Father’s Day Massacre” established Rick Perry as the dominant player at the Capitol. Drove the liberals nuts. The aftermath…
The dramatic gesture paid off.

The Austin American-Statesman analyzed over 500 e-mails and letters that were sent to Perry’s office in the aftermath of the vetoes, and found the response overwhelmingly positive. Perry, the American-Statesman reported, “appears to have energized people who support the death penalty, oppose abortion, are wary of more government — and whose turnout at the polls is necessary for him to win a full term in the 2002 election.” Winning the trust of conservatives was important for Perry. Before the vetoes, he had signed a hate-crimes bill that was opposed by many conservatives — his office was inundated with calls the days before the bill hit his desk — and was the Democrats’ “top priority” that session, according to Texas political analyst William Lutz.

Yesterday when asked about Gang Ochos Immigration Bill he said this:

Rick Perry Slams Senate Immigration Bill
July 14, 2013 10:12 AM (video at link)

“Texas governor Rick Perry, who this week fueled speculation about his presidential ambitions by announcing he will not seek a fourth term as governor, criticized the Senate’s immigration bill and scoffed at the suggestion that any single piece of legislation will disproportionately impact the GOP’s prospects in the 2016 election.

“The idea that there’s one piece of legislation that’s gonna decide whether an individual is gonna get to the White House is a little bit out of the realm of reality,” Perry said Sunday.

He went on to criticize the Gang of Eight’s legislation for its failure to adequately secure the border, which he argued is a prerequisite for immigration reform rather than a feature of it. “I don’t think the will is in Washington, D.C., to secure the border. So, until that happens, I’m not sure the American people are going to trust Washington to come up with some immigration bill until they secure the border.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/353363/rick-perry-slams-senate-immigration-bill-eliana-johnson

workingclass artist on July 15, 2013 at 11:03 PM

Perry’s problem is not that he has a strong accents. Perry’s problem is that he sounds like an idiot. I think we should aim a little higher than Rick “Oops!” Perry, if you don’t mind.

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM

How is the economy in your state?

Texas during Perry’s tenure has been doing fine & he’s ranked #2 this year in job creation (Promoting business growth policies and recruiting businesses and industry).

Whatever you might think of Perry…The man can govern a big and complex state and can deal with a legislature that didn’t have a republican majority in both houses until 2011.

workingclass artist on July 15, 2013 at 11:11 PM

bluegill on July 15, 2013 at 7:57 PM

…you are still nucking futs!…always will be!

KOOLAID2 on July 15, 2013 at 11:18 PM

Mr Rubio is my Senator
His biggest crime appears to be trying to work with the existing power structure to achieve his legislative goals.

Grunt on July 16, 2013 at 12:15 AM

How confident are you that Christie, Jindal, Walker, Perry, or Paul Ryan would veto the Gang of Eight bill if they were president?

I am supremely confident….that the GOP will betray me.

Does this mean I owe Trueking compensation for using his catch phrase?

DFCtomm on July 16, 2013 at 5:52 AM

I voted for and sent money to this RINO tool. I will do the same for his primary challenger in the next election. Rubio is dead to me (politically).

Doomsday on July 16, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Mr Rubio is my Senator
His biggest crime appears to be trying to work with the existing power structure to achieve his legislative goals.

Grunt on July 16, 2013 at 12:15 AM

I’m going to go out on a limb here (seeing as he is not
my Senator) and say his biggest Crime was LYING to the
people who put him into office about his
stance on Immigration…

ToddPA on July 16, 2013 at 9:49 AM

I’m going to go out on a limb here (seeing as he is not
my Senator) and say his biggest Crime was LYING to the
people who put him into office about his
stance on Immigration…

ToddPA on July 16, 2013 at 9:49 AM

THIS!

Doomsday on July 16, 2013 at 9:50 AM

If Rubio is the nominee I will vote a write in or 3rd party. I will never again hold my nose and vote for DemLite. I’ve done it too many times and their reward is by sending more of the same RINO’s. I am not saying I will agree nor need to agree on every issue. But Rubio went so far over the line that he’s a nonstarter for me. If it is another squish like Marco I will be done with the Republican party.

Minnfidel on July 16, 2013 at 9:52 AM

Mr Rubio is my Senator
His biggest crime appears to be trying to work with the existing power structure to achieve his legislative goals.

Grunt on July 16, 2013 at 12:15 AM

His biggest problem is he blatantly lied to the very people that supported him and got him elected. It wasn’t a little lie, it was a big one.

Big Orange on July 16, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Rubio is indicative of the standard establishment viewpoint. It doesn’t matter what you do to betray the “base”, they’ll still get in line and vote for the R anyway.

The “base” may have done that in the past. Times have changed. People are tired of being taken for granted and then stabbed in the back. Conservatives will no longer just vote for the R.

And if the establishment didn’t get the no-so-subtle hints with huge losses for McCain and Romney, go ahead, please nominate another Dimocrat-Lite, “moderate”, establishment Republican, see what happens…again.

Meople on July 16, 2013 at 10:17 AM

This is more like the third time you’ve given your calculus on Rubio, Allah. And I think you are failing to gauge the breakaway point we are at. The nation is so perilously close to losing itself permanently that politics as usual no longer is operative.

I basically agree with this take. I myself am done voting for Republicans at a national level. There is one Republican I personally know at the local level and am willing to vote for – that’s it. No one at national level and really no one at state level.

Many go-along Pubs are going to find themselves losing to Dems because the Tea Party is not going to pull the lever for them as “least worst choice”. If we have to withdraw our support from the party, we will, even at the cost of losing the election (which we probably would have lost anyway if we are running a me-too Crat), in hopes of a massive party reform to set the stage for a last Pickett’s Charge.

paul1149 on July 15, 2013 at 8:09 PM

And this I think hits on the real problem. Amnesty probably won’t hurt Rubio’s chances at the 2016 nomination because as 2012 showed, the GOP, the Democrats, and the media will work closely together to make sure no upstart candidates and no more “Reagans” appear. Any upstart conservative candidate will be destroyed while the media gives Rubio and Jeb many plaudits for being “moderates.”

There is this sort of blithe assumption that if Rubio wins the nomination, he will just walk to the presidency. This exact same assumption was in play when Romney ran – there was an unspoken assumption of a cakewalk despite all these protestations of Obama being a tough opponent. If amnesty isn’t passed, Hillary will likely beat Rubio, and if it is passed she will annihilate him. I would expect in the latter case for the Republican Party to simply start dissolving at that point.

Doomberg on July 16, 2013 at 10:21 AM

Rubio is just another professional hack politician and a RINO to boot.

Sandybourne on July 16, 2013 at 10:28 AM

How confident are you that Christie, Jindal, Walker, Perry, or Paul Ryan would veto the Gang of Eight bill if they were president?

Almost sure…Jindal, Walker, Perry (conservatives for now)

Not likely…Christie and Ryan(RNIOs of the first order)

cajunpatriot on July 16, 2013 at 10:38 AM

If Rubio is our nominee, I’m writing in Patrick Layton “Pat” Paulsen.

Even deceased he makes a better nom than Marco.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on July 16, 2013 at 10:38 AM

Mr Rubio is my Senator
His biggest crime appears to be trying to work with the existing power structure to achieve his legislative goals.

Grunt on July 16, 2013 at 12:15 AM

He’s my Senator too. His biggest crime is that, when running for office in 2010, he promised that he would never vote for an immigration bill that contained a path to citizenship and didn’t secure the border first. Not only did he do that but he voted for a bill that Republicans did not have an opportunity to debate, is full of pork and does nothing to secure the border.

He sold out his constituency. He’s a political traitor. He’s dead to most conservatives including this one.

cajunpatriot on July 16, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Rubio’s problem with the Gang of Eight bill is that, theoretically, he participated in the negotiations that the bill resulted from.

If this is what results from Rubio being involved, God help us if he were to become President.

Carnac on July 16, 2013 at 10:51 AM

I will not support Rubio. It’s simple really, he left the dance with someone else and abandoned the Tea Party—now the Tea Party will also turn to someone else, someone who is faithful to our values and can be trusted. Elephants have very long memories, we will not forget!

Oracleforhire on July 16, 2013 at 11:01 AM

Rubio is a lying crapweasel, who jettisons his “conservatism” at the first opportunity.

No. More. RINOs.

Rebar on July 16, 2013 at 11:10 AM

Yes. And long before the immigration problem he had an NDAA problem.

levi on July 16, 2013 at 11:16 AM

Does Marco Rubio really have an immigration problem in 2016?

You betcha.

AZCoyote on July 16, 2013 at 11:22 AM

rubio is toast to me in 2016.
I would rather vote for Hillary than that lying idiot.

mrks on July 16, 2013 at 11:24 AM

I can’t imagine that the base will forget what he did.

I think Romney proved you can win on moderates alone.

gophergirl on July 15, 2013 at 6:44 PM

Forgetting about, not caring what we think, insulting us, and thinking it could never happen twice……why do I have a feeling of deja vu?

tencole on July 16, 2013 at 11:33 AM

Why are we even still discussing this lying freak? Do they think we forget that easily his treachery?

theaddora on July 16, 2013 at 11:39 AM

So, basically Rubio wants to know if he’s in trouble, or if he’s really in trouble. It would be kind of cute if it weren’t so pathetic. I mean, honestly, the guy knifed us in the back and he can’t figure out whether or not we’re really mad about it. He’s not some preschooler who was naughty and got a 15-minute time-out. He’s a grown ass man who ought to be able to tell the truth when he speaks.

There have been so many betrayals on this issue — and I say this as someone who’s reasonably well engaged on immigration, to borrow Conn’s phrase — that unless a particular pol has been doggedly outspoken against the Gang bill, as Jeff Sessions has, I assume they have no real objection to it. Maybe that’s unfair to particular pols, but that’s how it is. My trust in prominent Republicans to deal with this issue intelligently instead of caving in a blind political panic is down to zero unless they’ve given me good reason to think otherwise.

What they always count on, Allah, is that we’ll be so freaked out by the prospects of whatever socialist Democrat they’re running against that we’ll scurry to the polls in opposition. But what you’ve said above is the naked truth… our trust has been broken again and again. The lies have become flagrant, as we see in the case of Marco Rubio, because the GOP doesn’t believe we’ll actually abandon it.

For YEARS, I’ve argued against splitting the party, but isn’t that what you’re describing?… when every candidate offers pretty much the same opposition to our values?… when there are no candidates on the ballot we can trust? Heck, it might be throwing my vote away to write in “Jeff Sessions”, but what does my vote accomplish anyway when my choices are limited to the Democrat, who doesn’t care about my concerns, or the Republican, who doesn’t care about my concerns?

The GOP has a TRUST problem. And it doesn’t get solved by people who LIE. If my choice on the ballot comes down to who has lied to me less, I’m simply going to write in somebody who hasn’t lied to me at all… even if it means throwing my vote away.
McCain taught me that.

Murf76 on July 16, 2013 at 11:42 AM

Does Marco Rubio really have an immigration problem

Not really. He has a lying, traitoring (is that a word?) problem.

faraway on July 16, 2013 at 11:49 AM

AP, you could not be more wrong on your buddy, Rubio! I will give you kudos for being more transparent than the Obama Regime, however!

tomshup on July 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Lawrence says that Rubio’s on safe-ish ground because, let’s face it, all of his likely opponents in the 2016 field (with the possible and notable exception of Ted Cruz) are also pro-reform.

And hence the 2016 problem for Rubio. Conservatives have been marginalized over the last few elections because we have had more candidates that have split the votes in the primaries. If Ted Cruz runs, then Rubio is part of the moderate pack to split the moderate votes. Conservatives need to select a candidate early in the primary to split the votes of the moderates. Either retake the party or leave it. I no longer believe there is a middle ground.

dominigan on July 16, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Rubio has a bald faced liar problem in 2016…period!

aposematic on July 16, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I’ve come to the point where I don’t trust anybody in Washington.

RebeccaH on July 16, 2013 at 2:35 PM

Rubio’s problem isn’t immigration, even though most Republicans and nearly all conservatives oppose the Gang of 8 fiasco. His problem is LYING.

He LIED to us about what was in the bill and what the effects would be. He might get a pass on that the first time, perhaps Schumer slipped some stuff in there, but Rubio doubled down and has gone to every single news outlet, talk show, and website insisting on the same damnable lies.

The man cannot be trusted to tell the truth, EVER. No decent and informed citizen should support him for dogcatcher or reelection, much less higher office.

Adjoran on July 16, 2013 at 3:50 PM

I live in Florida. I like Rubio. I voted for Rubio but he will not make the cut for the 2016 presidential run. We will not forget his duplicity. My hope is that Allen West primaries him for his Senate seat.

SpiderMike on July 16, 2013 at 4:49 PM

If this was a school parent/teacher conference, I would say something like: “Marco is a good boy but he wants too badly to be liked. He just got in with the wrong crowd. He wanted to be accepted by the older kids and did not use good judgment. I caution all the new kids to ‘choose their friends wisely because you become what they are.” Perhaps it’s time to transfer to a new school…

KCsecurity1976 on July 16, 2013 at 5:00 PM

The idea that all the other candidates with the exception of Ted Cruz are for immigration reform is not a valid one. In the 2012 election over three million grassroot Republicans did not vote for president because they did not trust Romney. How many of these same grassroot Republicans will trust Rubio since he crossed the aisle and embraced progressivism.

savage24 on July 17, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Worse, Rubio lied to himself and he belives the lies still.

To close a relationship with his mirror.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on July 17, 2013 at 1:52 PM

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