Prosecutor to judge: Can we also charge Zimmerman with third-degree murder based on, er, child abuse? Update: Judge rejects

posted at 1:21 pm on July 11, 2013 by Allahpundit

Revealing, for two reasons. One: It shows that the state’s worried enough about its case that not only do they want a lesser charge added to hedge against an acquittal on second-degree murder, which seems all but assured, they want one added to hedge against the lesser-included offense of manslaughter too. The judge already agreed this morning to instruct the jury on manslaughter, which was always a more plausible explanation for what happened between Martin and Zimmerman. But the state couldn’t get away with not trying for murder; this case is supposed to illustrate a Larger Truth about white (or “white Hispanic”) racism, and something as malignant as that requires a murder charge. If the jury acquits, as it almost certainly will, at least the state’s covered its own ass on the left by saying, “Hey, we tried.”

Two: The fact that they’re now floating a charge as nonsensical as murder committed in the course of felony child abuse when the shooting itself is the ostensible child abuse lays bare just how political the state’s goal is. That was already clear from the fact that the police chief was relieved for refusing to arrest Zimmerman, and then doubly clear when the state decided it needed a special prosecutor to make sure that this was brought to trial. They must have a conviction here, not only to vindicate that Larger Truth but to lower the chances of violence after the verdict. I’m intrigued to see if the judge agrees to instruct the jury on the charge, as inane as it is, precisely for that reason. She surely knows, and the jury must have some idea, that the political stakes of this verdict are sky high. Why not give them a chance to railroad Zimmerman on a much lesser, albeit incoherent, charge in the name of preserving social harmony? Hey — like the judge said, he can always appeal.

The prosecution also wants the jury to consider third-degree felony murder, which like manslaughter is punishable by up to 15 years in prison. Third-degree murder is defined as “the unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated without any design to effect death, by a person engaged in the perpetration of” certain felonies. The felony in this case, according to the prosecution, is…child abuse, because Martin was one year shy of 18 at the time of the shooting. According to this theory, the gunshot to Martin’s chest was both an act of child abuse and an unlawful killing committed in the course of that felony. Don West, one of Zimmerman’s attorneys, went ballistic at this suggestion, strenuously objecting that the charge was absurd and had been sprung on the defense at the last minute in an email sent by the prosecution this morning. If Zimmerman shot Martin in the course of a fight that the teenager initiated, West asked, by what stretch of the imagination does that count as child abuse? Judge Nelson will hear arguments about the proposed third-degree murder instruction this afternoon. After she rules, the jury will hear the prosecution’s closing argument.

You can defend instructing the jury on manslaughter because the difference between that and second-degree murder is purely a question of Zimmerman’s intent (or lack thereof). The evidence produced during the trial speaks to both charges. Child abuse adds a dimension that wasn’t addressed at trial. If they’re alleging that Zimmerman “abused” Martin somehow independent of the gunshot during the fight, the defense should have been allowed to rebut that. In fact, here’s what Florida law says about child abuse:

(b) “Child abuse” means:
1. Intentional infliction of physical or mental injury upon a child;
2. An intentional act that could reasonably be expected to result in physical or mental injury to a child; or
3. Active encouragement of any person to commit an act that results or could reasonably be expected to result in physical or mental injury to a child.

You need to intend to inflict injury. If the jury believes Zimmerman intended to inflict injury on Martin, i.e. that he wasn’t acting in self-defense, aren’t they more likely to get him on second-degree murder or manslaughter instead? The whole point of this charge, as far as I can tell, is simply that it gives jurors an escape hatch to pinch Zimmerman on something smaller if it turns out they’re too squeamish to get him on one of the two higher charges. It has nothing to do with the facts. It’s just a way to send him to jail for less time in case they’ve decided manslaughter is a tiny bit too severe.

Anyway. I’ve been wondering: What’s the media’s feeling right now about whether Zimmerman should be convicted or not? Obviously they’ve wanted all along to see him convicted; this trial wouldn’t be on your TV 24/7 if they didn’t. (Larger Truth!) But now, on the eve of deliberation, that would mean the end of the story; the fact that he might be railroaded for political reasons is kind of interesting to them, but not terribly so since the “right” result was reached. An acquittal on all charges gives the story new legs, though, because of what might happen in the aftermath. At the very least, it’ll be time for another media-led “national conversation on race” with all the terrible, terrible commentary that entails. I bet they’re on the fence now.

Update: A bridge too far for Judge Nelson:

The jury will be instructed on second-degree murder and manslaughter only, despite the state’s best efforts. I guess the court figured that the third-degree charge would reduce the proceedings to laughingstock status.


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Don’t those goal posts get heavy after a while?

CurtZHP on July 11, 2013 at 1:23 PM

If the judge allows the child abuse charge, she creates grounds for an immediate mistrial.

No evidence was submitted by the state of abuse, and the defense was not given an opportunity to defend against the charge.

Why not charge him with bank robbery too? There’s no evidence he did or did not rob a bank, but why is that important?

BobMbx on July 11, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Not guilty, please.

kingsjester on July 11, 2013 at 1:28 PM

The whole point of this charge, as far as I can tell, is simply that it gives jurors an escape hatch to pinch Zimmerman on something if it turns out they’re too squeamish to get him on one of the two higher charges. It has nothing to do with the facts. It’s just a way to send him to jail for less time in case they’ve decided manslaughter is a tiny bit too severe.

Funny, but I always thought the way the justice system worked was the state files charges against someone, the burden is on them to prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt, and then it’s up to a jury to convict or acquit.

Now after the YouTube video fall guy and Zimmerman, it looks like we live in an America where the state predetermines your guilt based on political motivations rather than evidence and comes up with whatever trumped up charge is necessary in order to secure a conviction.

Doughboy on July 11, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Why not just try him for voting Republican and get it over with?

CurtZHP on July 11, 2013 at 1:28 PM

The prosecution and the judge are out of control.

rbj on July 11, 2013 at 1:28 PM

I don’t remember whites marching/rioting when OJ was aquitted.

WTF?

NoPain on July 11, 2013 at 1:29 PM

Don’t those goal posts get heavy after a while?

CurtZHP on July 11, 2013 at 1:23 PM

They are the new portable, recyclable goal posts. Better for the political environment.

oldroy on July 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Well, they could have him charged with disturbing the peace with all that yelling going on, globull warming air pollution violation with the discharge, and contaminating the environment with sweat and blood that had to be cleaned up.

I mean they gotta grasp at whatever they can to get some kinda conviction out of this mess and see to it Zimmerman is rightfully punished for something….even if they have to make it up.

/SARC

hawkeye54 on July 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Update: Judge rejects

GOOD!!!!!!!!

An shred of Sanity in an otherwise Weapons grade Insane
Trial!!

ToddPA on July 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

An acquittal on all charges gives the story new legs, though, because of what might happen in the aftermath.

BREAKING:

AP reports there are no more helicopters available in Florida; media outlets have rented all in FL, major effort to import from nearby states

BobMbx on July 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

The Federal DOJ has instucted all parties involved in the prosectuion that a conviction of some sort if not optional. When Zimmerman is found not guilty there will be a federal Civil Rights violation charge presented to him. Possibly before he leaves the courtroom.

Johnnyreb on July 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

They’re not even trying to hide their true motives anymore…

Sickening…truly sickening…

nextgen_repub on July 11, 2013 at 1:31 PM

Littering and creating a nuisance?

Flange on July 11, 2013 at 1:31 PM

Don’t those goal posts get heavy after a while?

CurtZHP on July 11, 2013 at 1:23 PM

They are the new portable, recyclable goal posts. Better for the political environment.

d

Goalposts!? What goalposts? That implies competition and a defined and rigid objective. Gotta stay flexible to be able to evolve as needs arise.

hawkeye54 on July 11, 2013 at 1:31 PM

This whole kangaroo court in Miami, upon the urging and support of the Professional Race Baiters, was organized for the purpose of rallying “the people”.

These guys could care less about Trayvon Martin.

Organizing “the people” was not done for “justice”, it was done for distraction. Distraction from a horrible economy, which has hit America’s Black Population the hardest. Distraction from a weak and sniveling Administration. who, instead of protecting us from our enemies, has declared Americans to be their enemy.

If, when Zimmerman is acquited, and it is definitely looking that way, “the people” in Miami riot, any deaths that result, can be laid at the feet of these Professional Race Baiters.

They are the ones who made it about the color of Trayvon’s skin…and not about the content of his character.

kingsjester on July 11, 2013 at 1:32 PM

I guess the court figured that the third-degree charge would reduce the proceedings to laughingstock status.

Too late.

Chris of Rights on July 11, 2013 at 1:32 PM

The big question is how long it will take the jury, or how long will they delay what they’ve already decided, to announce an acquittal.
This seems as close to a “slam dunk” since the intell community assured GW that Hussein had WMD (oops, that didn’t turn out too well, did it?).
Will these six jurors hand the prosecutors their collective heads, or will the serve up the head of GZ on a platter to the media?
Are there any more Profiles In Courage, or are we the Sheeple we appear to be?

Another Drew on July 11, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Ah, “Larger Truths”.

Punchenko on July 11, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Or charge him with assault inthe commission of a misdemeanor theft, he may have been trying to steal the poor innocnt child’s tea and skittles.

What utter BS, from start to finish. If Martin had succeeded in beating Zimmerman’s brains into the concrete and Zimemrman had died, NONE of us would have heard a word about it.

JustTruth101 on July 11, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Littering and creating a nuisance?

Flange on July 11, 2013 at 1:31 PM

What I said. 1800 days confinement and $50000 fine at the very least.

hawkeye54 on July 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM

I guess the court figured that the third-degree charge would reduce the proceedings to laughingstock status.

Too late.

rbj on July 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM

I guess the court figured that the third-degree charge would reduce the proceedings to laughingstock status.

All ready is.

GarandFan on July 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Thanks AP. I feel better now.

Dusty on July 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM

The Federal DOJ has instucted all parties involved in the prosectuion that a conviction of some sort if not optional. When Zimmerman is found not guilty there will be a federal Civil Rights violation charge presented to him. Possibly before he leaves the courtroom.

Johnnyreb on July 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

They’ll get him on something. Possibly the lesser charge of causing Trayvon to waste a perfectly good bag of skittles.

The Rogue Tomato on July 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM

I don’t understand how they could add the manslaughter charge after the defense rested.

tdarrington on July 11, 2013 at 1:34 PM

As regards blatant political manipulation of the Zimmerman case by the DOJ and the White House (“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon), and picking and choosing what laws to enforce.

“He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.”

Political intervention in this case, pressuring the Judiciary and local political system…

“He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.”

“For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government,”

“For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments”

By the DOJ sending staff and resources to Florida to actively agitate for a murder trial and help organize street protests…

“He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us…”

History repeats, it seems, eh?

That’s why we have a 6th Amendment (which looks like it’s being violated here — Federal and State intervention in a local trial and political manipulation of the process): “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.”

That’s why we have a 5th Amendment (which also looks like it’s being violated — Zimmerman was charged with a specific crime, and now the Judge is making up new charges as the case is coming to a close — telling the jury the can consider lesser crimes of which to find him guilty, that he has not been charged with, the prosecution is also trying to add 3rd degree murder and child abuse charges as well!): “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

EasyEight on July 11, 2013 at 1:34 PM

This is the Rubicon whereby Social Justice supplants the Rule of Law in the U.S.

Pest on July 11, 2013 at 1:36 PM

The Federal DOJ has instucted all parties involved in the prosectuion that a conviction of some sort if not optional. When Zimmerman is found not guilty there will be a federal Civil Rights violation charge presented to him. Possibly before he leaves the courtroom.

Johnnyreb on July 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Yeah…there’s a price for messin’ with Obama’s pretend son.

BobMbx on July 11, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Why not just try him for voting Republican and get it over with?

CurtZHP on July 11, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Because he’s a Democrat? What the heck am I talking about, truth and reality have no place in Florida courtrooms, apparently.

ironmonger69 on July 11, 2013 at 1:36 PM

I guess the court figured that the third-degree charge would reduce the proceedings to laughingstock status more than it already is.

There.. fixed it for ya.

Zippy_Slug on July 11, 2013 at 1:37 PM

When all those government officials wore hoodies in favor of Trayvon, why didn’t they also wear their jeans at their ankles?

Pest on July 11, 2013 at 1:37 PM

Free George Zimmerman.

Go Ahead And Riot.

It’s A New World CCW Order. This Time, Reginald Denny Is Packing.

M240H on July 11, 2013 at 1:37 PM

Not to late for Jorge to convert to Islam.

Monkey wrench, that.

Bruno Strozek on July 11, 2013 at 1:38 PM

They’re not even trying to hide their true motives anymore…

nextgen_repub on July 11, 2013 at 1:31 PM

Of course not. Its all about our “betters” placating animals.

cozmo on July 11, 2013 at 1:38 PM

The left uses the courts, and the law, but they don’t respect the courts or law.

Just another tool to get their way.

But what do you expect from people who claim the truth is nothing more than the majority opinion of those in power at the time?

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 11, 2013 at 1:39 PM

If he is convicted by this Kangaroo Court Whitey should riot and show the others how it’s done effectively….but that would be a violation of the law and I certainly do not condone that….

Doomsday on July 11, 2013 at 1:39 PM

EasyEight: Those words only apply in a Federal Republic, with a DofI, and Constitution (as amended) as the guiding principles of law;
Not in the Empire of Barack-I, Long may He Rule!

Another Drew on July 11, 2013 at 1:39 PM

And, yet, no pctures of the 17 yeard old “outstanding young man” were allowed to be shown in court.

kingsjester on July 11, 2013 at 1:39 PM

The judge already agreed this morning to instruct the jury on manslaughter, which was always a more plausible explanation for what happened between Martin and Zimmerman.

No, it’s not. You just fell for the nonsens the liberal media has been spouting for weeks.

Manslaughter in FL is almost certainly not what you think it is. Nor is it, in this context, even what FL used to say it was before the prosecution subliminally redefined it in court. Now it is basically the charge they are offering the jury if they “feel” that Zimmerman “should be convicted of something” because “an unarmed black boy who was doing nothing wrong was shot and killed”, regardless of the facts, the evidence, and those quaint old notions of “reasonable doubt” and “self-defense”.

For everyone’s information…. Manslaughter in FL when a gun is used can carry the same prison sentence as 2nd degree murder. For all intents and purposes it makes no difference whether GZ is found guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter as charged. To really highlight how unjust this all is, the jury will not know that the penalty for manslaughter is essentially the same as the penalty of 2nd degree murder.

Finally, it cannot be manslaughter if it is self-defense. Hopefully the defense can make this and the concept of “beyond reasonable doubt” clear to the jury.

farsighted on July 11, 2013 at 1:40 PM

I do hope Hispanics are paying close attention to how gleefully liberal Democrats are seeking to ignore the evidence and railroad a Hispanic man and deny him justice in favor a more important (to them) minority group.

Curmudgeon on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Prosecution blew it. That’s why they’re reaching so desperately now.

I support CCW. Hell in some places I support concealed carry even if you don’t have a permit. I would NEVER operate my business without protection. I rarely leave my home unprotected.

My problem with this case is this. George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth. It’s the same fear fuel complaints about NBPP standing outside of a polling place. Yes, there are a boatload of black-criminals, thugs, etc. Still, there is no law and nothing wrong with being black. I know that’s a shocker to some in here.

You don’t shoot a 17 year old, 150 pound chump for punching you in the nose. If George Zimmerman was training MMA for a year he KNEW exactly what to do. This business about him being soft is BS. He was an intense looking guy at the time. (I suspect that many anti-Hispanic types in here would have called him a thug just to look at him.) Sure, he has mellowed and fattened up since for the sake of the trial. Also, we have all seen men being beaten for 15 minutes by 250 pound me every day on UFC. How many times have you read about a kid beating a man to death?

The guy made the wrong choice, simple as that. It can happen to any one of us who carries a concealed weapon. I know, however, that I would not have made the decision he made in that scenario. You don’t stop a fight with deadly force…unless you’re a coward or a criminal.

I don’t care if the kid smoked weed or listened to rap music. GZ injected himself into a situation wherein he provoked somebody and got his ass kicked. He should have gone home lesson learned. Instead he killed a kid.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

It’s just a way to send him to jail for less time in case they’ve decided manslaughter is a tiny bit too severe.

If he’s in the general pop for any length of time, he’s a dead man. A trophy kill for the black gangs.

a capella on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

I guess the court figured that the third-degree charge would reduce the proceedings to laughingstock status.

That’s been going on since the beginning of this sham. The police found no cause to charge anything in the first place. The FBI found no racist intent. Only when Obama, Sharpton, and Holder got involved was this show trial foisted on the public.

The LSM, on seeing the prosecution’s case for the nothingburger it is, did they start saying they want Zimmerman convicted of SOMETHING, even the lowest charge of aggravated assault — which the prosecution dropped today in hope of getting the new charge of child abuse.

This is already a laughingstock, but there’s nothing funny about it. No grand jury convened, a judge doing everything she could to help the prosecution, and now the DA trying to toss in a new charge at the end of presentations. What is it with Florida trying to change the rules after the fact (see election of 2000).

Oh, I know — Democrats!

They want Zimmerman’s head on a pike, and they’re doing everything they can to get it, no matter how dishonest.

I expect Zimmerman to be convicted. I wonder how his appeal will play out.

Liam on July 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM

The Media practically have Drool coming out of their
mouths wanting this man convicted.

Meanwhile a guy named Hasan sits in Texas making
a mockery of our System of Justice, after
murdering 13 American soldiers…..

let that sink in.

ToddPA on July 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM

If he’s in the general pop for any length of time, he’s a dead man. A trophy kill for the black gangs.

a capella on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

PC

He would never be allowed in general population. How many black gangs have you interacted with not on television?

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:43 PM

Zimmerman is toast. They are going to get him on manslaughter because fear of minorities rules the day in the USA in the year 2013. Of course, they were never going to let him walk on this despite the fact that he should have never been charged. He was doomed as soon as he was labeled a “white Hispanic”. And while he will be found guilty of manslaughter by 12 women hoping to soothe the savage beasts looking for an excuse to riot, they will not be satisfied until the possible news of his murder in prison is announced. Of course, then celebratory riots will be in order.

Rockshine on July 11, 2013 at 1:43 PM

Curmudgeon on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Of course. The libs really didn’t care that the lottery loser was of minority descent. He looks white.

cozmo on July 11, 2013 at 1:43 PM

Zimmerman will be found NOT GUILTY!

canopfor on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Saw part of the jury instruction proceedings this morning. The judge is clearly doing her best to throw this case to the prosecution. She kept denying defense stuff for no other reason than “because I said so.” She’s a fat, clearly liberal, hack who wants to keep the narrative alive that a street thug was killed because of his race and not his actions. She also probably is a cat person.

Happy Nomad on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

I guess the court figured that the third-degree charge would reduce the proceedings to laughingstock status.

Oh yeah, ’cause we wouldn’t that to happen, now, would we? *eyeroll*

GWB on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Why not charge him with bank robbery too? There’s no evidence he did or did not rob a bank, but why is that important?

BobMbx on July 11, 2013 at 1:25 PM

I’m sure they could make a case he parked his car illegally that night.

Liam on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Was the jury informed that the Prosecution just told the Judge that they did not prove the original charges and that they wanted new ones ?

Jabberwock on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Talk about wild-eyed conspiracy mongering.

This “Larger Truth about white racism” is one of the most fantastical and dangerous conspiracies out there. It’s actually worse than 9/11 Trutherism in that it’s more widespread and more entrenched and held by people who have power to act upon it.

Zimmerman’s actual Hispanic identity is ignored by the Left because he was upholding Law and Order. That’s the crime for which he must not be forgiven. The society that he was defending is the product of the traditional “white power structure”. So for all intents and purposes, Zimmerman is white.

The Left lionizes TresVonne like the Islamics worship suicide-bombers. It doesn’t matter the evil acts that the black felon or the muslim bomber commits, because the system they were targeting is the greater evil- in one case Zionism, in the other white supremacy.

And people need to stop speculating on the outcome of this “trial” as if this were a typical legal proceeding. This is a lynching. And this crazed mob will do whatever it takes to string him up unless they are stopped.

Tim Scott
Pam Bondi
Angela Corey

These are the one who made this to happen. They need to be held accountable for Zimmermans’s fate.

sartana on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

If Zimmerman is found guilty of anything there will surely be grounds for appeal, no? This trial has been a joke. The judge must be getting threats to be so blatantly partial.

ctmom on July 11, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:43 PM

Your point?

a capella on July 11, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

A “fear of Black youth”? When a 17 year old High School Football Player is straddling you, hitting you in the face with martial arts-style blows, slamming your head into the pavement, and ignoring your screams for him to stop, firing your weapon into him is self-defense. Not “a fear of Black youth”.

kingsjester on July 11, 2013 at 1:46 PM

I do hope Hispanics are paying close attention to how gleefully liberal Democrats are seeking to ignore the evidence and railroad a Hispanic man and deny him justice in favor a more important (to them) minority group.

Curmudgeon on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Gotta disagree here. Hispanics are illegally and legally immigrating and breeding here faster than blacks. Just look to Washington and the desire for amnesty to find out what group the dems want to bring onto the plantation…Hispanics already out number blacks as a percentage of population and are increasing that margin exponentially. If ya want future votes you have to get some hispanics plus blacks are already on the Dem plantation and will never leave (with very very few exceptions who will forever been known as race traitors and Uncle Toms).

Doomsday on July 11, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Essentially, the State appeared to be arguing for an exception to Florida’s self-defence law. One is entitled to defend himself…unless the person pummelling him is a child…even if the victim of the assault and/or battery is unaware of his age.

Listening to the State, one would be left to assume that minors never commit crimes like murder, rape, aggravated assault, etc.

Under this theory, if Trayvon had been raping a woman, she could not have done anything but lay back and enjoy it.

A most excellent analysis…

Deconstructing the Trayvon Martin Narrative: Nothing Left to Argue? (UPDATED)

Resist We Much on July 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Revealing, for two reasons. One: It shows that the state’s worried enough about its case that not only do they want a lesser charge added to hedge against an acquittal on second-degree murder, which seems all but assured, they want one added to hedge against the lesser-included offense of manslaughter too.
============================================

Yup!!

canopfor on July 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM

She’s a fat, clearly liberal, hack who wants to keep the narrative alive that a street thug was killed because of his race and not his actions. She also probably is a cat person.

Happy Nomad on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Dude! What’s up with the ad hominem attack? You might even call it libel! I know some perfectly good people who are “cat people”. Shame on you.

GWB on July 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM

rayvon Martin shooting

Prosecutors start closing arguments in George Zimmerman’s 2nd-degree murder trial – @AP

1 min ago by editor

canopfor on July 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Under this theory, if Trayvon had been raping a woman, she could not have done anything but lay back and enjoy it.

Resist We Much on July 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM

That’s pretty much the anti-gunner’s position on things. So we’re seeing some consistency for once, at least.

GWB on July 11, 2013 at 1:48 PM

George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Race baiting troll.

I assume this is one of the reasons HA has avoided this topic like the plague.

But the problem is that HA does not know how to handle trolls.

HA lets trolls indiscriminately toss out unsupported charges of racism and race bait like confetti. No penalty for that. But when a long time poster makes one faux pas and uses a term some think is racist the ban hammer comes down.

You bring this kind of crap on yourself, HA.

farsighted on July 11, 2013 at 1:48 PM

a capella on July 11, 2013 at 1:46 PM

kingsjester on July 11, 2013 at 1:46 PM

He’s reduced to spitballin’ at this point. Kind of like the prosecution in this case.

cozmo on July 11, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Goalposts

More like a line in the sand right next to the surf. “Oops, the last line was washed away, let’s draw a new one. Oops, the last line was…” (lather, rinse, repeat ad infinitum).

Marcola on July 11, 2013 at 1:49 PM

I just got a new TV.

I will watch the riots with 30% more screen space now.

Moesart on July 11, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

If you need to hurl big nasty chunks of puke, can you please head to the loo and try to aim for the toilet?

It reeks around here now.

sartana on July 11, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Retard Hog

As predictable as the sun rising in the east, Retard Hog is retarded….again.

xblade on July 11, 2013 at 1:50 PM

And, yet, no pctures of the 17 yeard old “outstanding young man” were allowed to be shown in court.

kingsjester on July 11, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Yeah, the fat judge got very angry with the defense lawyer for calling the whole attempt at 3rd degree during child abuse a “trick” but let the prosecutor get away with talking about it not being illegal for a street thug (emphasis mine) to wear a hoodie or be armed with a bag of skittles.

It’s clear that too many of our darker neighbors want to make the death of a street thug into a hate crime and have no interest in justice. They’ve got an ally in the fat judge who, clearly, would have made sure those Duke lacrosse players would get convictions too. The whore wears her hair long. I suspect to better hide the kangaroo ears.

Happy Nomad on July 11, 2013 at 1:50 PM

George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Really! Getting your head slammed against concrete causes fear to occur in some people, the bigots./

Thomas More on July 11, 2013 at 1:51 PM

My problem with this case is this. George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth.

And any slim shred of evidence or proof for that statement is where? You really are a piece of work. Seriously, you need to get some professional help.

Johnnyreb on July 11, 2013 at 1:51 PM

The Federal DOJ has instucted instructed all parties involved in the prosectuion prosecution that a conviction of some sort if is not optional. When Zimmerman is found not guilty there will be a federal Civil Rights violation charge presented to him. Possibly before he leaves the courtroom.

Johnnyreb on July 11, 2013 at 1:30 PM

If true, I’d be happy to contribute to his defense fund and be named as doing so. This trial has been a race-grievance-industry debacle.

What would it have taken for Martin to turn and say to Zimmerman, “You got a problem with me? I’m walking home; I live in Unit [whatever].”

Instead, this is what can tragically happen when you’re offended by every perceived slight, and you proceed to put someone else in fear for his own life.

It’s tragic, but Martin’s family can blame only Martin.

BuckeyeSam on July 11, 2013 at 1:51 PM

I just got a new TV.

I will watch the riots with 30% more screen space now.

Moesart on July 11, 2013 at 1:50 PM

I don’t usually agree with Moesart,

but this is Funny as Hell!

ToddPA on July 11, 2013 at 1:52 PM

Prosecution blew it. That’s why they’re reaching so desperately now.

I support CCW. Hell in some places I support concealed carry even if you don’t have a permit. I would NEVER operate my business without protection. I rarely leave my home unprotected.

My problem with this case is this. George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth. It’s the same fear fuel complaints about NBPP standing outside of a polling place. Yes, there are a boatload of black-criminals, thugs, etc. Still, there is no law and nothing wrong with being black. I know that’s a shocker to some in here.

You don’t shoot a 17 year old, 150 pound chump for punching you in the nose. If George Zimmerman was training MMA for a year he KNEW exactly what to do. This business about him being soft is BS. He was an intense looking guy at the time. (I suspect that many anti-Hispanic types in here would have called him a thug just to look at him.) Sure, he has mellowed and fattened up since for the sake of the trial. Also, we have all seen men being beaten for 15 minutes by 250 pound me every day on UFC. How many times have you read about a kid beating a man to death?

The guy made the wrong choice, simple as that. It can happen to any one of us who carries a concealed weapon. I know, however, that I would not have made the decision he made in that scenario. You don’t stop a fight with deadly force…unless you’re a coward or a criminal.

I don’t care if the kid smoked weed or listened to rap music. GZ injected himself into a situation wherein he provoked somebody and got his ass kicked. He should have gone home lesson learned. Instead he killed a kid.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

This post is up to your usual standards.

Trayvon Martin is dead because he attacked someone who was armed. It’s pretty much that simple.

And it’s a very good thing that Zimmerman was armed, or he would probably be dead.

If Martin had been smarter, he might have outgrown his thuggishness. The fact that he never had the chance is the only real tragedy — for him and his family.

But Zimmerman did nothing to deserve being jumped and beaten. The tragedy for Zimmerman is that he became the target of a political investigation that has made his life hell for over a year now. This whole thing is a show trial.

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 11, 2013 at 1:53 PM

What about all the murders of black kids every weekend in every democrat run city?

birdwatcher on July 11, 2013 at 1:54 PM

George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Inordinate fear?

What would you rather he have had? Guarded optimism?

sartana on July 11, 2013 at 1:54 PM

If only Zimmerman were here illegally.

WASHINGTON (AP) — House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday the “vast majority” of House Republicans believe they need to deal with immigration, but that they’ll take a methodical, step-by-step approach and won’t be held to any deadlines.

Legislation to secure the border and enforce immigration laws will come first, Boehner said. As for whether the House could ever agree to provide legal status or a path to citizenship for the 11 million immigrants already in the country illegally, “Well, we’re going to find out,” Boehner said.

“Through all the conversations that have occurred, with my own members, with Democrat members, it’s clear that dealing with this in bite-sized chunks that members can digest and the American people can digest is the smartest way to go,” said Boehner, R-Ohio. “And so I’m much more concerned about doing it right than I am in meeting some deadline.”

The Ohio Republican spoke at a news conference Thursday, a day after House GOP members met to hash out their way forward on immigration.

They emerged with a consensus on dealing with border security first and moving legislation in pieces, in contrast to the sweeping bill passed last month by the Senate on a bipartisan 68 to 32 vote. What to do about the millions already here illegally remained unanswered.

KILL THE BILL.

PappyD61 on July 11, 2013 at 1:54 PM

I honestly feel like I’m a spectator at a lynching. What a joke the FL judicial system has become. Maybe America’s!!

Deano1952 on July 11, 2013 at 1:54 PM

Instead he killed a kid.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

It is so funny watching you scream for attention on here. Something really fcked up about your generation. Alos cute watching tools like yourself pretend to be enlightened about racial reality. Statistically there is a reason to fear “black youth”, but you are too much of a man child to discuss such truth without mentioning what a badass you are.

ClassicCon on July 11, 2013 at 1:55 PM

He’s reduced to spitballin’ at this point. Kind of like the prosecution in this case.

cozmo on July 11, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Guess so. I can appreciate a subtle well done fishing expedition as much as anyone. In the early HA days we had some really good ones. They could lead you on for days. Sadly, they have been replaced with a player to be named later types.

a capella on July 11, 2013 at 1:56 PM

Doubling down…

WH Stands by Obama’s Remark on Trayvon Martin

Drained Brain on July 11, 2013 at 1:56 PM

My problem with this case is this. George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth. It’s the same fear fuel complaints about NBPP standing outside of a polling place.

You are full of shit.

You don’t shoot a 17 year old, 150 pound chump for punching you in the nose. If George Zimmerman was training MMA for a year he KNEW exactly what to do. This business about him being soft is BS. He was an intense looking guy at the time. (I suspect that many anti-Hispanic types in here would have called him a thug just to look at him.) Sure, he has mellowed and fattened up since for the sake of the trial. Also, we have all seen men being beaten for 15 minutes by 250 pound me every day on UFC. How many times have you read about a kid beating a man to death?

You’re still full of shit.

The guy made the wrong choice, simple as that. It can happen to any one of us who carries a concealed weapon. I know, however, that I would not have made the decision he made in that scenario. You don’t stop a fight with deadly force…unless you’re a coward or a criminal.

You are a liar too. Let me bash your head into a concrete sidewalk a few times and tell me you won’t pull your weapon. (fkng liar)

I don’t care if the kid smoked weed or listened to rap music. GZ injected himself into a situation wherein he provoked somebody and got his ass kicked. He should have gone home lesson learned. Instead he killed a kid.

So full of shit your eyes are brown.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Harbingeing on July 11, 2013 at 1:56 PM

You can defend instructing the jury on manslaughter

They should not be able to even request this after trial has started.

George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Zimmerman shot Martin in self defense. Martin started it. If Zimmerman was out to shoot Martin he would hardly have allowed the thug punk to break his nose, knock him to the ground and bash his head into the cement.

dogsoldier on July 11, 2013 at 1:57 PM

How does this prosecutor sleep at night? Oh he’s a democrat? That explains everything!

birdwatcher on July 11, 2013 at 1:58 PM

Tim Scott

sartana on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Rick Scott Governor of FL not Tim Scott Senator from SC

gracie on July 11, 2013 at 1:58 PM

NBPP standing outside of a polling place carrying nightsticks.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Just adding that pertinent piece of factual information you obviously left out by mistake. /

Hit the bricks, bigot.

CurtZHP on July 11, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Trayvon Martin is dead because he attacked someone who was armed. It’s pretty much that simple.

And it’s a very good thing that Zimmerman was armed, or he would probably be dead.

There Goes the Neighborhood on July 11, 2013 at 1:53 PM

This.

Chris of Rights on July 11, 2013 at 2:00 PM

Afraid the Jury will opt for manslaughter

sandee on July 11, 2013 at 2:00 PM

Finally, it cannot be manslaughter if it is self-defense. Hopefully the defense can make this and the concept of “beyond reasonable doubt” clear to the jury.

[farsighted on July 11, 2013 at 1:40 PM]

AP says it is a plausible explanation because that is what it was. However, the law also says self defense is a legal justification for doing so. But let me put it in Andrew Branca’s words because he’s not only a lawyer, but he expresses the concept better than I do:

In Florida manslaughter is a lesser-included charge of second degree murder, so it was always inevitable that the jury would be read this instruction as well. Here, it is quite possible that the State may be able to prove the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt–essentially that Zimmerman deliberately used force against Martin, and that Martin died as a result.

The challenge for the State, then, comes in the second half of the analysis in any self-defense case, and that is where the defendant claims that, yes, he did commit the acts with which he was charged but he was legally justified in doing so because he was acting in lawful self-defense. Self-defense is an absolute defense against conviction of any intentional crime, if accepted by the jury as true.

Dusty on July 11, 2013 at 2:00 PM

My problem with this case is this. George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth the man on top of him, beating him senseless.

Those are the facts.

BobMbx on July 11, 2013 at 2:00 PM

Florida law requires mandatory minimum sentences with additional years tacked on for crimes committed with a firearm. If convicted of second-degree murder, Zimmerman would be sentenced to at least 25 years in prison. With a manslaughter conviction, he would face up to 30 years.

So basically the judge is bailing out the prosecution and allowing them to potentially secure an equally harsh sentence for Zimmerman via a manslaughter charge. I have a bad feeling the fix is in.

Doughboy on July 11, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Trayvon had an opportunity to enter hid dad’s girlfriends apartment, but he decided to attack Zimmerman instead. dumbass.

birdwatcher on July 11, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Does it matter to anyone on the Left that when this story first broke, the liberal media originally identified as Zimmerman as Jewish? They had to scramble later when it came out he’s Hispanic.

Liam on July 11, 2013 at 2:01 PM

How does this prosecutor sleep at night? Oh he’s a democrat? That explains everything!

birdwatcher on July 11, 2013 at 1:58 PM

How does the Judge? She’s done everything she could to screw the defense and help the prosecutor. She needs to be given her walking papers.

dogsoldier on July 11, 2013 at 2:02 PM

This circus needs to end and Zimmerman needs to walk…

OmahaConservative on July 11, 2013 at 2:02 PM

I think you people have it all wrong. The DOJ and Obuthead are praying for an acquittal. When the subsequent nationwide rioting ensues he will declare Martial Law for our own protection. That’s when Orwellian logic hits the fan.

NOMOBO on July 11, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Would have gotten far better odds with negligent homicide. Actually the closest this they could have gotten a conviction at all would have been to charge him with reckless endangerment for getting out of the car. But that wouldn’t stop the upcoming riots (which is what people wanted from the beginning).

michaelo on July 11, 2013 at 2:03 PM

George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because like many, he had an inordinate fear of a black youth.

Capitalist Hog on July 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

That’s weird considering the FACTS that:

1) His great-grandfather was black;

2) He has ‘black youths’ in his family;

3) He tutored disadvantaged ‘black youths’;

4) His friend, Joe Oliver, who is black, has repeatedly come to his defence in public forums to unequivocally state that GZ is not a racist nor does he have a racial animus;

5) Two years ago, he publicly condemned and called for the investigation of the very same policemen that investigated the Martin shooting when they beat a black, homeless man. Come on! Aren’t you always telling us how corrupt the police are? If these guys could have gotten back at Zimmerman, why wouldn’t they…assuming they are corrupt, like all policemen are or so you tell us? Seriously, they could have killed two birds with one stone. Zimmerman claimed that they were racists two years ago. If true, ‘Hey, a black kid is dead. Big deal! Who cares? But, it’s paaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyybbbbaaaacccckkk time for Zimmerman!’; and,

6) The prosecution could offer NO evidence that GZ ‘profiled’ Martin ‘because he was black’ other than to argue that ‘punks’ was ‘code’ for black, which would come as quite the surprise to Johnny Rotten, Sid Vicious, Joe Strummer, and Mick Jones.

The prosecution has the duty to prove beyond a reasonable doubt each of the elements of every charge. Even if the prosecution proves an element to 95%, it is insufficient and the 5% means that the jury MUST find in favour of the defendant. Of course, the defence in this case hasn’t proved any element anywhere near the 95% level.

Resist We Much on July 11, 2013 at 2:04 PM

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