Q-poll shows 55/34% believe Snowden to be a whistleblower rather than a traitor

posted at 10:01 am on July 10, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Whistleblower or traitor? Given those two choices, a majority of respondents in a new Quinnipiac poll choose “whistleblower” for Edward Snowden.  On the NSA, however, the majority still seems confused:

American voters say 55 – 34 percent that Edward Snowden is a whistle-blower, rather than a traitor, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today.

In a massive shift in attitudes, voters say 45 – 40 percent the government’s anti-terrorism efforts go too far restricting civil liberties, a reversal from a January 10, 2010, survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University when voters said 63 – 25 percent that such activities didn’t go far enough to adequately protect the country.

Almost every party, gender, income, education, age and income group regards Snowden as a whistle-blower rather than a traitor. The lone exception is black voters, with 43 percent calling him a traitor and 42 percent calling him a whistle-blower.

There are a couple of issues with this poll, starting with the choices offered.  Both “whistleblower” and “traitor” are emotional terms that don’t necessarily line up in legal terms with Snowden’s actions.  “Traitor” is a very emotional and negative term, while “whistleblower” is less-emotionally positive and sounds more moderate in comparison.  I’d have wanted to see “traitor” paired with an equally emotional and unequivocally positive term, such as “hero,” to get a real perspective on the emotional extremes — with perhaps “whistleblower” and “lawbreaker” in the middle.

Another problem with this poll is that the Snowden question comes after a series of leading questions about the nature of the NSA’s surveillance programs.  Quinnipiac chose to highlight the Snowden response, so that question should have come before asking concern-level questions about “the government’s anti-terrorism policies” and support/opposition for “federal government programs where all phone calls are scanned” — which, by the way, isn’t actually in evidence yet.  Metadata is collected on all calls, but at least for the moment, we don’t know that all phone calls, ie content, is scanned. Only after these and questions about intrusiveness do we get to the Snowden question at all.

The results of these other questions are, frankly, incoherent.  The respondents break 53/44 to say that the NSA program is too intrusive — but break 54/40 to say it’s necessary to keep Americans safe.  By 51/45, a majority supports a program where “all phone calls are scanned” in case any are connected to terrorism.  So why would the majority celebrate the man who blew the program’s secrets, unless the choices offered pushed them into that position?  None of this makes any sense, especially on top of the 45/40 result of higher concern over privacy than providing adequate security.

The results are a mess, thanks to the structure of the poll.  While I don’t doubt that Snowden gets quite a bit of sympathy for his actions, I’m equally convinced that this poll is an unreliable measure for it.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

At the very best, he’s a whistleblower who ran straight for communist nations (ye will be judged by the company ye keep) and is telling them God-knows-what national secrets and semi-secrets.

MelonCollie on July 10, 2013 at 10:09 AM

Children of the Corn have their hero…

workingclass artist on July 10, 2013 at 10:10 AM

I’d have wanted to see “traitor” paired with an equally emotional and unequivocally positive term, such as “hero,” to get a real perspective on the emotional extremes — with perhaps “whistleblower” and “lawbreaker” in the middle

Precisely, he’s both a Whistleblower and a traitor.

Initially did the right thing but in the wrong way. That makes him a “lawbreaker” i.e. criminal. Then he fled to our enemies and gave them more information, that makes him a traitor.

Though the revelation that he took the job with the intention to steal the info and distribute it to foreign agents (Assange) makes him a spy & traitor from the get go.

Rogue on July 10, 2013 at 10:11 AM

I stick with traitor. If he’d wanted to be a whistleblower, there were ways to do that without giving secrets to foreign countries.

Chris of Rights on July 10, 2013 at 10:12 AM

Count me in the 55%. I am glad to know the things my government is doing in order to blackmail me and especially others into giving up our God given rights as sentient free will creatures.
Anyone who imagines that this is about hurting America apparently only cares about the POLITICAL CLASS OF AMERICA as far as I am concerned.
So far, nothing that has been leaked will help get a single average American harmed. The only people hurt by this are GOVERNMENT THUGS.

astonerii on July 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Keep in mind a lot of people have been blaming NASA for invading their privacy.

Tells you just how informed people are about this subject.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM

So far, nothing that has been leaked will help get a single average American harmed. The only people hurt by this are GOVERNMENT THUGS.

astonerii on July 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM

So, it wasn’t “espionage espionage” unless someone gets harmed? Good to know.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:15 AM

He is a whistler blower in my opinion. He told the truth, and the truth in Amerika is considered treason. The more we can expose the tyranny of our government the better. As the lights of transparency are turned on it’s amusing to watch the cockroaches, and their allies, scurry and scamper.

MoreLiberty on July 10, 2013 at 10:16 AM

I don’t know what to think about the dude at this point, what I do know is that I’m more aware than ever of my government turning feral because of Snowden opening that door.

Bishop on July 10, 2013 at 10:16 AM

So, it wasn’t “espionage espionage” unless someone gets harmed? Good to know.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:15 AM

+100

Rogue on July 10, 2013 at 10:16 AM

I honest cannot decide – whistle blower or espionage?

I lean whistle blower – but that may be because I don’t know enough.

I have yet to see anything that surprised me with this.

jake-the-goose on July 10, 2013 at 10:19 AM

I’d want Snowden’s head if the Obama administration didn’t have a track record for persecuting whistleblowers. That said, for going to the Chinese and Russians, I’ll settle for making him a eunuch and subjecting him to hard labor for the rest of his life.

Say, why has so little been written about how a guy with so little experience in his current position had access to so much classified information so soon? And why hasn’t his employer been crucified for its employment of him?

BuckeyeSam on July 10, 2013 at 10:20 AM

I don’t know what to think about the dude at this point, what I do know is that I’m more aware than ever of my government turning feral because of Snowden opening that door.

Bishop on July 10, 2013 at 10:16 AM

Dittos.

petefrt on July 10, 2013 at 10:22 AM

I thought Eddie was just a “29-year-old hacker.”

Fallon on July 10, 2013 at 10:23 AM

Hero or devil, Snowden really has the government and LSM in quite a tizzy.

Liam on July 10, 2013 at 10:25 AM

I’d want Snowden’s head if the Obama administration didn’t have a track record for persecuting whistleblowers. That said, for going to the Chinese and Russians, I’ll settle for making him a eunuch and subjecting him to hard labor for the rest of his life.

BuckeyeSam on July 10, 2013 at 10:20 AM

Your US government masters are proud, and they thank you for your support. Now, make sure you watch your neighbors and family members for any “unamerican” activities.

MoreLiberty on July 10, 2013 at 10:25 AM

So, it wasn’t “espionage espionage” unless someone gets harmed? Good to know.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:15 AM

From what I understand, he has only taken/released information on the systems that the government uses, not information on specific agents. So while some of the systems are now in jeporady, the agents running them are not.

The point being that he exposed massive corruption on a global scale performed by our own government in ways that violate our Constitution. As an Originalist, while I don’t approve of his methods, the fact that he has helped expose this corruption is a very good thing. At worst, I would peg him as merely a lawbreaker, at best a whistleblower. He clearly is not a hero, and his crimes do not rise to the level of treason. At least, not as far as is publically known, which is all any of us have to go on anyway.

wearyman on July 10, 2013 at 10:25 AM

Started as a whistleblower……ending up as a traitor.

dddave on July 10, 2013 at 10:30 AM

If Obama had a hacker son….

Electrongod on July 10, 2013 at 10:32 AM

So, it wasn’t “espionage espionage” unless someone gets harmed? Good to know.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Can you demonstrate that any actual harm is being done to the US or US interests by Snowden? Have the Democrats provided any concrete proof of what Snowden is supposedly leaking? Why are you willing to believe Obama and his cronies, who habitually lie to us about virtually everything, are suddenly telling us the truth about Snowden?

The definition of treason is providing aid and comfort to our enemies. I don’t think it unreasonable to demand that the Democrats demonstrate exactly what “aid and comfort” Snowden is giving our enemies rather than just toss out vague accusations of leaks.

I’m certainly open to the argument that Snowden may have harmed the nation, but none of his detractors have been able to demonstrate what harm has been done… beyond, of course, embarrassing Obama.

Doomberg on July 10, 2013 at 10:35 AM

Rogue on July 10, 2013 at 10:11 AM

My opinion runs closest to Rogue’s. At this point, with the information I have read, he is both. I think the poll structure attempts to remove ambiguity from a very nuanced situation.

deepdiver on July 10, 2013 at 10:35 AM

So, it wasn’t “espionage espionage” unless someone gets harmed? Good to know.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:15 AM

I do not find it traitorous to turn your back on Government THUGS and instead to inform the American Citizens how the Government THUGS are working to steal their freedoms.
The Government is not the United States of America. WE THE PEOPLE are. If your only concern is whether or not he made Obama and the rest of his Thugocracy look bad, then I find you to be equivalent of those that were bid “may the chains which bound you weigh lightly on your shoulders” but you are not to be counted amongst the patriotic.

astonerii on July 10, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Snowden isn’t charged with treason. He’s charged with espionage. Even if he is convicted, that wouldn’t make him a traitor per se.

J.S.K. on July 10, 2013 at 10:36 AM

The point being that he exposed massive corruption on a global scale performed by our own government in ways that violate our Constitution. As an Originalist, while I don’t approve of his methods, the fact that he has helped expose this corruption is a very good thing. At worst, I would peg him as merely a lawbreaker, at best a whistleblower. He clearly is not a hero, and his crimes do not rise to the level of treason. At least, not as far as is publically known, which is all any of us have to go on anyway.

wearyman on July 10, 2013 at 10:25 AM

What corruption? He did not expose a single “corruption”. He exposed a LEGAL process that we don’t like and strikes at the very core of what it is to be an American.

We may like to call things unConstitutional, but if Congress passed it and the courts are complicit, it’s not unConstitutional. Same as ObamaCare. In my heart I believe it to be unConstitutional, but SCOTUS has ruled it is Constitutional so I have to suck it up.

I live in a world of facts. And the facts of the matter are that Snowden PLANNED IN ADVANCE prior to working there to expose these very types of things.

He’s not a whistleblower who got a job for the purpose of having a job and then ran across something he felt wrong. Nor did he run across anything illegal. He just exposed a legal framework that is very distasteful. He doesn’t, legally, fall under any type of definition as a whistleblower.

Legally, what he did was espionage. It’s just that simple.

Conservatives seem to be all about the rule of law, until the rule of law disagrees with them. Then it’s the raw emotional arguments just like liberals. (Not saying you are doing that, but speaking in general terms from what I’ve seen on this case)

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM

Snowden isn’t charged with treason. He’s charged with espionage. Even if he is convicted, that wouldn’t make him a traitor per se.

J.S.K. on July 10, 2013 at 10:36 AM

This^^^

He’s a spy. The facts are undeniable.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:40 AM

The lone exception is black voters, with 43 percent calling him a traitor and 42 percent calling him a whistle-blower.

I truly fear for our country. The only possible reason for this is that Snowden is white, going up against a black President. It seems that there’s a substantial percentage of blacks in this country who view EVERYTHING through the prism of race.

The most important mission for the GOP is to break through the false racial regime Dems and blacks have implemented, which has as its cornerstone the myth that Republicans are inherently bigoted and racist, and voting for them makes you one.

You don’t do that by supporting the immigration agenda of Debbie Wasserman Schultz. You do that by exposing the hypocrisy of DWS, who doesn’t have to worry about the Trayvons of South Florida wandering into her little piece of heaven because she has 24-hour armed (I assume) guards to keep them out.

bobs1196 on July 10, 2013 at 10:41 AM

MeanWhile……………………………

NSA leaker Snowden: I never gave any information to Chinese or Russian governments – @guardian

57 mins ago from http://www.guardian.co.uk by editor
=================================================

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/10/snowden-denies-information-russia-china

canopfor on July 10, 2013 at 10:44 AM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……………..

But not the 99%!
(sarc)

canopfor on July 10, 2013 at 10:46 AM

He is a whistler blower in my opinion. He told the truth, and the truth in Amerika is considered treason. The more we can expose the tyranny of our government the better. As the lights of transparency are turned on it’s amusing to watch the cockroaches, and their allies, scurry and scamper.

MoreLiberty on July 10, 2013 at 10:16 AM

It seems that Snowden likely applied for his his last job in order to expose wikileaks style.

so there’s that.

workingclass artist on July 10, 2013 at 10:47 AM

The Government is not the United States of America.

It’s hard for neocons and big government tyrants to understand this.

MoreLiberty on July 10, 2013 at 10:47 AM

It seems that Snowden likely applied for his his last job in order to expose wikileaks style.

so there’s that.

workingclass artist on July 10, 2013 at 10:47 AM

And? He exposed the fact that the US government is spying on US citizens, and the US government justifies this via some BS secret court system.

A constitutional republic, built on individual liberty, should never have a secret court.

MoreLiberty on July 10, 2013 at 10:49 AM

I believe that the arrogance of the Obama administration and the blatant and repeated unwillingness of his Justice Department to investigate what in any other administration would border on high crimes has clouded my judgement in this case. All governments have an intelligence service and no matter what, I am sure that other countries know full well that spying goes on even between allies. I think some of this incredulous talk on US transnational spying from leaders elsewhare in the world is, at least in part, political posturing. Because I don’t know what Snowden really told other countries I can’t make a judgement. I do know that the US Government is gathering as much personal data on every American citizen it possibly can. If that qualifies as some sort of sophisticated intelligence gathering strategy then pardon me for being unimpressed. Right now I know that Edward Snowden has informed me as an American citizen of something that my government is doing to me. He is a whistleblower. He might have broken the law. If he has shared intelligence information with other countries I don’t know if he can be considered a traitor if they are not a declared enemy. But he might be a law breaker. If anyone knows speccifically of information he has shared with another country that has not become public to the average American I would like to know.

DaveDief on July 10, 2013 at 10:53 AM

He got out of the country with thumb drives that he got out of NSA with.

With this kind of super duper extra mega security in place at NSA, do you really think Russia and China need to be told anything?

Seems that NSA is very good and peeking up our skirt while its own is blowing in the wind.

If Snowden delayed tyranny for a few months or years, forcing this criminally insane govt to rethink a few things and maybe change direction, even if only a little, only low information types could complain.

Akzed on July 10, 2013 at 10:55 AM

We may like to call things unConstitutional, but if Congress passed it and the courts are complicit, it’s not unConstitutional. Same as ObamaCare. In my heart I believe it to be unConstitutional, but SCOTUS has ruled it is Constitutional so I have to suck it up. ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM

So… nothing means anything?

I guess SCOTUS could rule that the Bill of Rights is unconstitutional and you’d be on board eh?

Akzed on July 10, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Rogue on July 10, 2013 at 10:11 AM

The “legal” whistle blower route is completely ineffectual as I have posted several times before. Can you name the previous NSA whistleblowers?

If you can, great. Most people never heard of them because their stories got swallowed. Not enough legs because they didn’t get PROOF.

Snowden caused a major poopstorm and actually collected proof (probably damaging dirt) of our corrupt aristocracy spying on us. How they revile him for it.

As for the commie countries, obviously not one’s first choice, but where else can he go, the moon?

dogsoldier on July 10, 2013 at 10:57 AM

We may like to call things unConstitutional, but if Congress passed it and the courts are complicit, it’s not unConstitutional. Same as ObamaCare. In my heart I believe it to be unConstitutional, but SCOTUS has ruled it is Constitutional so I have to suck it up. ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM

No you don’t. The supremes have been wrong quite a few times. Americans don’t quit.

dogsoldier on July 10, 2013 at 10:59 AM

The editors of The Guardian stated that before publishing anything they have asked the nsa if it would hurt national security and they were told no.

Puma for Life on July 10, 2013 at 11:01 AM

We may like to call things unConstitutional, but if Congress passed it and the courts are complicit, it’s not unConstitutional.
ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM

Hahahaha..OMG…are you serious? So if congress passed a law that all speech, and all press, must first be approved by government censors – so as not to challenge the state – and the SC approved then you’d think “Sounds constitutional to me”. haha

MoreLiberty on July 10, 2013 at 11:03 AM

We may like to call things unConstitutional, but if Congress passed it and the courts are complicit, it’s not unConstitutional. Same as ObamaCare. In my heart I believe it to be unConstitutional, but SCOTUS has ruled it is Constitutional so I have to suck it up.
ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM

Got to say, this tells us a large amount about who you are.
The Constitution was written with specific meaning and has a limited specific amount of powers that we Citizens surrendered to the federal government. Regardless of what the Supreme Court says, the constitution does not change and the powers granted the federal government are not constitutionally adjusted.

astonerii on July 10, 2013 at 11:04 AM

NSA leaker Snowden: I never gave any information to Chinese or Russian governments – @guardian

canopfor on July 10, 2013 at 10:44 AM

Are we really to believe that Snowden was in China for days and in Russia for longer and he’s never shared the information he stole? Never got de-briefed? That just doesn’t pass the smell test.

China and Russia got all they wanted from Snowden and now they really don’t care where he ends up.

Happy Nomad on July 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM

I guess SCOTUS could rule that the Bill of Rights is unconstitutional and you’d be on board eh?

Akzed on July 10, 2013 at 10:57 AM

That is what they did when they turned the California Prop 8 back without judgement.

astonerii on July 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM

Are we really to believe that Snowden was in China for days and in Russia for longer and he’s never shared the information he stole? Never got de-briefed? That just doesn’t pass the smell test.

China and Russia got all they wanted from Snowden and now they really don’t care where he ends up.

Happy Nomad on July 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM

And who cares? How is it going to put me in danger?

astonerii on July 10, 2013 at 11:07 AM

Snowden is a part of the rebel alliance and a traitor. Take him away!

Punchenko on July 10, 2013 at 11:08 AM

Are we really to believe that Snowden was in China for days and in Russia for longer and he’s never shared the information he stole? Never got de-briefed? That just doesn’t pass the smell test.

China and Russia got all they wanted from Snowden and now they really don’t care where he ends up.

Happy Nomad on July 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM

He may not have had anything they wanted. If he primarily took information about how the US government spies on its own citizens, what would China or Russia care about that?

In fact, I can just as easily counterargue that he’s being left to dangle in the wind by them because he had nothing for them.

Doomberg on July 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM

canopfor on July 10, 2013 at 10:44 AM

Are we really to believe that Snowden was in China for days and in Russia for longer and he’s never shared the information he stole? Never got de-briefed? That just doesn’t pass the smell test.

China and Russia got all they wanted from Snowden and now they really don’t care where he ends up.

Happy Nomad on July 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM

Happy Nomad:That could be:)

canopfor on July 10, 2013 at 11:19 AM

If this poll is accurate, then we the people are idiots. Snowden’s revelations about American cyberwar against Chinese targets, and about America and Israel working together on Stuxnet is not whistleblowing, it’s just old-fashioned treason.

ProfessorMiao on July 10, 2013 at 11:21 AM

ProfessorMiao on July 10, 2013 at 11:21 AM

Yeah, except our government had already admitted that it worked on stuxnet, nice try idiot, but he did not reveal anything that was not already known.

astonerii on July 10, 2013 at 11:28 AM

So… nothing means anything?

I guess SCOTUS could rule that the Bill of Rights is unconstitutional and you’d be on board eh?

Akzed on July 10, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Of course not. But I’m smart enough to understand all politics are local and I will continue to do my part by lobbying for policies I believe to be right and voting for those I believe will make the correct choices when in office.

I’m guessing you bunch of patriots are loaded for bear and ready to take on a few infantry divisions tomorrow?

How exactly is calling Snowden a whistleblower instead of a traitor (of which he is neither) going to reel the “unConstitutional” laws back?

Pray tell, great patriots, what you have done today to roll back the behemoth known as our federal government? What it boils down to is we’re all making the same contributions (albeit at different levels of participation) through the same channels.

There is no Continental Congress or Continental Army in the wings ready to pounce. So quit pretending those who don’t agree with Snowden not being a criminal is somehow for big government and a police state.

It is what it is. Deal with the reality of the situation within the available legal channels.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 11:30 AM

Say, why has so little been written about how a guy with so little experience in his current position had access to so much classified information so soon? And why hasn’t his employer been crucified for its employment of him?
BuckeyeSam on July 10, 2013 at 10:20 AM

If he could do it, between the Clinton administrations and this one, imagine what else is going on that we DON’T know about, what with all the Leftists that are busily burrowing themselves into our National Security Apparati while they have the chance.

Cleombrotus on July 10, 2013 at 11:42 AM

From the Q poll:

PARTY IDENTIFICATION
Republican 23%
Democrat 32
Independent 35
Other/DK/NA 9

Other interesting demographics rom this poll:

67% had no college degree
47% had household income under $50K

My Question:

Where did they poll?

D-fusit on July 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM

steal(Verb)

Take (another person’s property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: “thieves stole her bicycle”.

The thief here was they NSA, not Snowden. They stole data that belonged to you and me. We paid for it. It was created by our phone company under contractual obligation to its customer.

Snowden didn’t expose a new weapons system or plans to a new submarine. He exposed how our government has turned against us and considers US the enemy.

Whistleblower.

But he fled the country!

Smart Whistleblower

kurtzz3 on July 10, 2013 at 12:17 PM

I have no brief for Snowden.

But I’m fairly well informed and supported the Patriot Act. Never did I think that I was supporting this NSA program as currently described.

More than that — I don’t recall anyone, most certainly not W or any of the other administration surrogates saying “and in order to catch these bad guys, we are going to have collect data on every cell phone call made in the U.S., including those made by U.S. citizens calling other U. S. citizens inside the U.S.

I think if we had been told that a lot of conservatives — not just libertarians, but conservatives — would have expressed serious doubts about whether this was the way to go.

(And when they tell us: well, we foiled these plots, I want them to answer the question: is this necessary in order to catch them. I think I heard Megyn Kelly raise this point, but I’m not sure many others have.)

EastofEden on July 10, 2013 at 12:27 PM

55/34% believe Snowden to be a whistleblower rather than a traitor

Because most people have been fed bad reporting. Besides, 50% of the population is below the median intelligence level.

Snowden is not a “whistle blower” he is not a hero. He is lower than a rat, he is a worm in the gut of a rat.

He needs to rot in prison for the rest of his life.

crosspatch on July 10, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Traitor? LOL. the only people that think Snowden is a traitor are the elites who got outed and those that would rather have a safety skynet then freedom and liberty

unseen on July 10, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Because most people have been fed bad reporting. Besides, 50% of the population is below the median intelligence level.

Snowden is not a “whistle blower” he is not a hero. He is lower than a rat, he is a worm in the gut of a rat.

He needs to rot in prison for the rest of his life.

crosspatch on July 10, 2013 at 12:29 PM

wow thanks for proving the MSM is still able to brainwash people.

unseen on July 10, 2013 at 12:38 PM

EastofEden on July 10, 2013 at 12:27 PM

It’s called a slippery slope for a reason. when Bush was pushing the patriot act many of us warned of giving the government that type of power.

the Founders understood slippery slopes and understood the only way to win is not to play the game. The government should not have the type of power, resources and technology it does.

unseen on July 10, 2013 at 12:40 PM

oh and for the record this isn’t about Snowden its about the fact that the NSa/gov is spying on everything the Citizens of the USA and world is doing. I hated the STASI and I hated the KGB for doing the same thing to its people. I would be a hypocrite of the highest order if I thought it was ok for the USA to do it.

unseen on July 10, 2013 at 12:42 PM

But I’m fairly well informed and supported the Patriot Act. Never did I think that I was supporting this NSA program as currently described.

More than that — I don’t recall anyone, most certainly not W or any of the other administration surrogates saying “and in order to catch these bad guys, we are going to have collect data on every cell phone call made in the U.S., including those made by U.S. citizens calling other U. S. citizens inside the U.S.

I think if we had been told that a lot of conservatives — not just libertarians, but conservatives — would have expressed serious doubts about whether this was the way to go.

EastofEden on July 10, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Well, I guess it depends on how you define ‘well informed’ …’were you, for instance, watching TV back in the day when Bush was president and another NSA spying scandal broke out,I think it was in 2006…You might not be recalling it, but I do…Fox News and Hannity especially was all over the place about what a great tool collecting metadata was in the war of terror and what wussies the Dems were for being against it, that was back then, in 2006…here and here, to refresh your memory…to your defence, am sure Hannity doesn’t remember either :)…

jimver on July 10, 2013 at 12:59 PM

oh and for the record this isn’t about Snowden its about the fact that the NSa/gov is spying on everything the Citizens of the USA and world is doing. I hated the STASI and I hated the KGB for doing the same thing to its people. I would be a hypocrite of the highest order if I thought it was ok for the USA to do it.

unseen on July 10, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Funny how you mentioned just StASI and KGB, I guess it’s all for (melo)dramatic effect :) when every single govt on this planet spies and has always spied both on on its citizens and on foreign entities (businesses, individuals, etc), including the US one….the difference consisting in the access to advanced technology said govts have…some are still in the cumbersome analog era, where ‘spy on thy neighbor’ still works for lack of better alternatives, and human informants are a precious commodity, while some other govts have moved into the digital one where the sky is the limit when it comes to retaining and storing data…and they don’t even have to do much for that, it’s all built in the technology….one day the flat earth types will have to accept and live with it too…

jimver on July 10, 2013 at 1:14 PM

Snowden should be forced to smell stinky tofu.

DarkCurrent on July 10, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Snowden should be forced to smell stinky tofu.

DarkCurrent on July 10, 2013 at 1:19 PM

I’m sure he did while he was in Hong Kong :)…

jimver on July 10, 2013 at 1:30 PM

We may like to call things unConstitutional, but if Congress passed it and the courts are complicit, it’s not unConstitutional. Same as ObamaCare. In my heart I believe it to be unConstitutional, but SCOTUS has ruled it is Constitutional so I have to suck it up.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM

That is incorrect. The Congress passing a law and a complicit judiciary giving them a wink and a nod doesn’t make that law constitutional. Dred Scott v. Sandford ring any bells?

Wendya on July 10, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Judging from many of the comments on this thread I think it once again demonstrates that the premise of Jonah Goldberg’s book, Liberal Fascism, is wrong: in fact there are a lot of people on the far-right that support corporatism (hence Romney’s nomination), and the stasi police-state and so forth.

If Jonah’s book is right then it implies that the people here who think Snowden is a traitor and supported Romney are on the far-left.

CurpliTium on July 10, 2013 at 2:22 PM

If Jonah’s book is right then it implies that the people here who think Snowden is a traitor and supported Romney are on the far-left.

CurpliTium on July 10, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Bingo. They support the establishment, they support the overall system.

MoreLiberty on July 10, 2013 at 2:37 PM

That is incorrect. The Congress passing a law and a complicit judiciary giving them a wink and a nod doesn’t make that law constitutional. Dred Scott v. Sandford ring any bells?

Wendya on July 10, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Huh?

The courts were not complicit with Congress in Dred Scott. They specifically ruled the Missouri Compromise was unConstitutional.

What in the hell are you talking about?

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Funny how you mentioned just StASI and KGB, I guess it’s all for (melo)dramatic effect :) when every single govt on this planet spies and has always spied both on on its citizens and on foreign entities (businesses, individuals, etc), including the US one….the difference consisting in the access to advanced technology said govts have…some are still in the cumbersome analog era, where ‘spy on thy neighbor’ still works for lack of better alternatives, and human informants are a precious commodity, while some other govts have moved into the digital one where the sky is the limit when it comes to retaining and storing data…and they don’t even have to do much for that, it’s all built in the technology….one day the flat earth types will have to accept and live with it too…

jimver on July 10, 2013 at 1:14 PM

So you’re saying we should all just lay back and try to enjoy it?

kim roy on July 10, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Those running the N-Stasi-A are the traitors.

VorDaj on July 10, 2013 at 7:18 PM

So, it wasn’t “espionage espionage” unless someone gets harmed? Good to know.

ButterflyDragon on July 10, 2013 at 10:15 AM

The espionage is being done by the federal government against the American people and our Bill of Rights is being very much harmed.

VorDaj on July 10, 2013 at 7:23 PM