Why did democracy fail in Egypt but succeed in Tunisia?

posted at 11:31 am on July 6, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The Mediterranean rim of North Africa has three laboratories for the Arab Spring — Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt, each with a differing formula of political culture and Western intervention.  The one with the most direct Western intervention and least sophisticated political culture, Libya, has descended into a failed state whose central government can’t even control the street in front of its own Defense Ministry, where Islamist terror networks fight for turf in a deadly gang war.  Egypt, where Western pressure pushed out a long-term dictator in favor of quick elections, produced an incompetent Islamist autocracy via an election that the military finally ejected from power this week. With violence escalating now, this could be the start of a civil war between the Muslim Brotherhood and everyone else.

In Tunisia, where Western intervention was the lightest and the political culture more advanced and diverse, seems to have succeeded in democratization — at least so far — even with an Islamist party leading the government.  Bloomberg’s Noah Feldman diagnoses the ills that plagued Egypt and the way in which leadership in Tunisia, where the Arab Spring began, avoided them:

The contrasting personalities and styles of their leaders, however, have pushed Ennahda and the Brotherhood to behave differently when negotiating religion with secularists in their respective countries.Rachid Ghannouchi, the spiritual leader of the Tunisian Islamists, has emerged as the closest thing to an Islamic Nelson Mandela. During his decades in exile, Ghannouchi wrote extensively about the compatibility of Islam and democracy, and developed a relatively liberal vision of how Islam and the state should interact.

Skeptics then claimed that Ghannouchi’s views were a cover for a more radical agenda; and some Tunisian secularists still think so. But the evidence thus far is sharply to the contrary. When Islamists called for inserting a reference to Shariah into the Tunisian constitution — usually the sine qua non for any Islamic political party — Ghannouchi took seriously the opposition from secularists. In a dramatic showdown with members of his own party’s leadership, he reportedly threatened to resign unless they dropped the measure. …

By contrast, when Mohamed Mursi was president, he proved disastrously unwilling to negotiate during Egypt’s truncated constitutional drafting process. The Brotherhood could have shown its good faith by moderating the various Islamic provisions it sought to incorporate. It wouldn’t even have had to omit Shariah, a reference to which was already included in Egypt’s pre-revolutionary constitution. Instead, the Brotherhood went further, giving constitutional authority to the clerics of al-Azhar. Compromise alone wouldn’t have forestalled the protests that led to Mursi’s overthrow. But it would have signaled a willingness to govern on behalf of the whole populace, not just those who voted for the Brotherhood.

The willingness to share governing responsibility is probably the single-most-salient factor separating Tunisia’s relative success from Egypt’s disaster. Ennahda has governed as part of a coalition with secularist parties, whose members filled the positions of president and speaker of the Assembly alongside Ennahda’s prime minister.

This so-called troika of parties has often been dysfunctional and has failed to take decisive action on the economy, which is the most important national issue and the impetus to the Arab Spring in the first place. But the symbolic power of the coalition has helped ensure that frustration about the slow pace of economic change hasn’t focused solely on Ennahda, but on the government more generally. In contrast, Mursi failed to appoint a coalition Cabinet with any meaningful breadth. Anger at shortages and a failing economy then fell squarely on him and his party.

The difference between Tunisia and Egypt in this context is that political competition in the former was well established.  In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood was the only effectively organized political opposition during the Nasser-Sadat-Mubarak era of military dictatorships.  When Ben Ali fled in 2011, the emerging electorate was sophisticated, multilateral, and prepared.  Ghannouchi may be the Islamist Mandela in spirit, but the reality on the ground in Tunisia forced the Islamists to work with other parties in order to survive.

The real lesson here is that Western-style multiparty democracy does not necessarily follow from an election, and certainly not from bombing a dictator out of power with no troops on the ground to fill the vacuum that kind of action creates.  Successful and free democracies have to spring from the internal culture of the nation; free and fair elections under the rule of law are the end result, not the initiating event. The actions of Morsi and his party demonstrate the folly of failing to understand that sequence.

Or, to quote from Andrew Breitbart, culture is always upstream of politics.

How, then, can Egypt salvage a democratic future after its latest military coup?  Investors Business Daily has an unusual prescription — take a lesson from Augusto Pinochet, considered by many to be one of the late 20th century’s villains for deposing Salvador Allende:

Allende foreshadowed Morsi, demolishing political institutions, trampling the free press, disrespecting minority rights, ignoring the constitution, disregarding the separation of powers, trashing property rights and ruining the economy. Also, Allende was in thrall to a failed and inhuman foreign ideology — communism — just as Morsi was to Islamofascism. In both cases, the only exit was a military coup.

Had Chilean military commander Augusto Pinochet simply handed the country back to “democracy” without changing the root causes of the turmoil and tyranny, the cycle would have had a replay.

But he didn’t. He used his military government as an incubator for free-market changes, transforming his country into not just Latin America’s best economy, but also Latin America’s most durable democracy. Pinochet — who stepped down dutifully after 17 years upon losing a referendum — understood that economic freedom had to precede political freedom. He employed a brilliant group of mostly University of Chicago-educated young Chilean economists, known as the Chicago Boys, to transform the society by cleaning out thousands of weedlike laws choking Chile’s economy — on labor, mining, currency, fishing, vineyards, startups and pensions.

They made the central bank independent and instituted hard-core fiscal discipline that has left the country debt-free and pushed its credit rating toward triple A.

If you don’t like using Pinochet as a positive example, IBD has another:

Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto points out to IBD that one of America’s greatest success stories — Japan — under another military government, that of Gen. Douglas MacArthur — also focused on enacting economic freedom, particularly property rights, before restoring political freedom.

We got it backwards in Egypt, and just flat-out disastrously wrong in Libya.  Quick elections are not the answer in Egypt.  The nation needs time to develop competing political voices that can write a constitution that truly reflects the will of the people rather than the agenda of one party so that all succeeding elections can be free and fair, and a government that can share the successes and failures with the free people it governs.  That starts with fixing the economy, and that starts with giving people ownership of their own labor and markets.


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With violence escalating now, this could be the start of a civil war between the Muslim Brotherhood and everyone else.

Obama;
on the wrong side of everyone else…
but loved by everyone else…
initially…

Electrongod on July 6, 2013 at 11:40 AM

It’s time for Zombie Sadat!

TBinSTL on July 6, 2013 at 11:41 AM

Why did democracy fail in Egypt but succeed in Tunisia?

Cus the Goons are more Moderate!!
(sarc)

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 11:42 AM

Results for #EGYPT

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23EGYPT

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Amazing how more than 200 years ago, the Founding Fathers of this great nation understood the perils of religion and government in writing the First Amendment. #IndependenceDayLessons

Rovin on July 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Hmmm…….

Al Arabiya English ‏@AlArabiya_Eng 2m

State TV: 6 #Brotherhood leaders detained over “killing of protesters” #egypt
===================

Al Arabiya English Al Arabiya English ‏@AlArabiya_Eng 3m

#Egypt’s interior minister sacks police officer suspected of leaking “information” to the Muslim #Brotherhood: State TV

https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Eng

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 11:46 AM

AJELive ‏@AJELive 39m

Large demonstrations are again forming in #Egypt’s #NasrCity | Watch @SherineT and @JamalsNews report live: http://aje.me/live

https://twitter.com/AJELive

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 11:47 AM

False premise Ed. Stop telling yourself that the Egyptians had free democratic elections.

Also, is it a coincidence that the degree of Islamist terrorist rule in these three countries has been inverse to the degree of US intervention. Tell me again how elJugears is not an Islamist.

NOMOBO on July 6, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Couple of things…Tunisia is a good bit smaller than Egypt…has a more homogenous population as well, has an established capitalist infrastructure, something the French were once very good about, and despite its recent difficulties, it still has a loyal European expat and professional tourist population…land ownership laws in Tunisia are a bit more lax for foreigners than they are in Egypt.

But democracy?

Hmmm…democracy is not compatible with Islam…

And, is democracy what is really needed in Egypt? Not every voice is equal, in reality, which is why the fallacy of pushing “democracy” on places where there is no tradition of private property, individual rights, freedom of religion, of assembly, association, universal education and all the rest we, here, take for granted…well, democracy requires a lot of attention, attention to detail along with rapt attention to the broader issues.

Representative democracy, a republic form of governance; with it Egypt might, over time, once the extremists are sorted out, Egypt might be able to make a rapid transition to a republic.

But, in the interim…pushing democracy in Egypt only serves to exacerbate the chaos…

A Pinochet?

No, Egypt does not need a Pinochet.

They do, however, need a popular strongman, an Egyptian, an experienced technocrat, not sa religious figure nor rank politician, not some puppet of the US, nor puppet of the Moslem Brotherhood.

This need to “solve” Egypt’s problems overnight, from a Western perspective, well, that is what booted Mubarak out prematurely…he had already announced that he was stepping down and that national elections would be held (over a year ago) but Washington just had to dump him…immediately.

Never did solve asny of Egypt’s problems…just made them worse, overnight.

Few recall the chaos of what was the Belgian Congo when Belgium succumbed to the West and was made to end their colonial relationship in the Congo…they did. Overnight. There were parades, and celebrations all over Leopoldville, up to Stanleyville and down to Elizabethville…everybody rejoiced…freedom, independence and of course, democracy.

But not one damn Congolese properly trained to do so much as marshal aircraft on the tarmac at Leopoldville airport…not one Congolese plumber or electrician…but they had democracy.

They have yet to recover from that…50 years later.

Put out the house fire first…then decide on the style of new drapes.

coldwarrior on July 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Of course the Obama regime will NEVER promote private property and capitalism. I hope for another group of Chicago Boys to lead Egypt out of the socialist weeds.

PattyJ on July 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Also, is it a coincidence that the degree of Islamist terrorist rule in these three countries has been inverse to the degree of US intervention

Oops. I meant the degree of democracy

NOMOBO on July 6, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Why did democracy fail in Egypt but succeed in Tunisia?

Because Dear Leader didn’t give a speech in Tunisia?

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 6, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Is this Pinochet stuff an elaborate joke satirizing liberals who idolize Stalin? Please. Ed, tell me you’re joking. Per Wikipedia about how great another Pinochet would be:

According to various reports and investigations 1,200–3,200 people were killed, up to 80,000 were interned, and up to 30,000 were tortured by his regime including women and children.

red_herring on July 6, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Tunisia is primarily one single ethnic group. 97% arab berber.

wolly4321 on July 6, 2013 at 12:01 PM

In case anybody hasn’t noticed, Tunisia is still an economic basket case with angry jihadis still making bloody mischief, hither and yon.

They’re less a train wreck than Libya, but Egypt is only slightly more stable in comparison.

CPT. Charles on July 6, 2013 at 12:01 PM

Mbemba Bojang ‏@mberest1982 2m

New extremist group “Ansar al-Sharia” is launched in #Egypt,

calling #Morsi’s ouster

“a declaration of war”

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/islamist-group-threatens-violence-after-ousting-egypt-s-morsy
=====================================

Islamist group threatens violence after ousting of Egypt’s Morsy
On
Sat, 06/07/2013 – 12:31
***********************

Reuters

RIYADH – A new Islamist group has announced its formation in Egypt, calling the army’s ousting of President Mohamed Morsy a declaration of war on its faith and threatening to use violence to impose Islamic law.

Ansar al-Shariah in Egypt said it would gather arms and start training its members, in a statement posted on an online forum for militants in the country’s Sinai region on Friday and recorded by the SITE Monitoring organization.

The army’s move, which was backed by mass rallies across Egypt, has raised fears Islamists could desert officially-recognized groups like Morsy’s Muslim Brotherhood and move to more militant movements.

Morsy’s exit has already triggered violence. At least 24 people died as Islamists took to the streets in Cairo and other cities on Friday to vent their fury at what they say was a military coup.

Morsy was elected president last year after a popular revolution swept away veteran leader Hosni Mubarak.

The army has appointed an interim leader and announced a transition plan which lacks a timeframe for more elections.

It has also arrested senior Muslim Brotherhood members and closed Islamist television stations.

Ansar al-Shariah said in its statement the military overthrow, the closing of television channels and the death of Islamist protesters all amounted to “a war declared against Islam in Egypt”, SITE reported.

The group blamed the events on secularists, supporters of Mubarak and Egyptian Coptic Christians, state security forces and army commanders, who they said would turn the country into “a crusader, secular freak”.

It denounced democracy and said it would instead champion Islamic law, or sharia, acquire weapons and train to allow Muslims to “deter the attackers, preserve the religion and empower the sharia of the Lord”, SITE reported.
============================

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/islamist-group-threatens-violence-after-ousting-egypt-s-morsy

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 12:03 PM

Closest you’ll get to Europe, other than Gilbraltor.

wolly4321 on July 6, 2013 at 12:04 PM

Because Dear Leader didn’t give a speech in Tunisia?

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 6, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Dr. ZhivBlago:Oooh dats a good one!:)

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 12:06 PM

Islam doesn’t need democracy, it needs demolition and a reboot to the 21st century.

fogw on July 6, 2013 at 12:06 PM

There are several differences between Tunisia and Egypt. The major reason Morisi failed was the economy. If he and his gang of M brothers had managed to pull out the devastated economy he would still be in power. But because he did nothing to turn the economy around AND headed toward a strict Sharia law and appointed radicals to almost every position, he was overthrown. I believe that given time Tunisia will do the same thing. The young people of Tunisia are already complaining about the direction of the Islamic governors and the movement toward Sharia law. I simply believe that anytime a nation is ruled by a Muslim government, democratic or not, they will eventually head toward stricter Islamic control. Look at Turkey. They have been secular for years but under Erdogan they are rapidly moving toward much stricter Islamic laws and control. The city dwellers are against this movement but the traditionalists in the country are all for it. Again it is the economy that is saving Erdogan.

inspectorudy on July 6, 2013 at 12:09 PM

Boko Harem (q.v.)

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 12:17 PM

The Japan example of American intervention is a fascinating one. It was most successful at land reform, abolishing absentee holdings. It had a strong left-of-center flavor, strongly encouraging Japan’s labor movement and allowing the Communist Party to build power.

Events overtook the efforts of MacArthur’s New Deal planners, and Japan soon became just another component in Cold War policy — giving her economy a major boost from the Korean War.

bobs1196 on July 6, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Islam is all about world domination.

Give them time and we will all be running around headless.

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 12:20 PM

Meanwhile, in Turkey:

Ivan Watson ‏@IvanCNN 6m

Tear Gas in beyoglu, istanbul pic.twitter.com/eIt9PdG7FT
View photo

Ivan Watson Ivan Watson ‏@IvanCNN 9m

Demonstrator in wheel chair confronts riot police: what you are doing is illegal! #Istanbul pic.twitter.com/AuVZTUfmcY

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 12:25 PM

Warning for Freedom lovers in Egypt……you live in a culture steeped for thousands of years in authoritarian rule by Pharoahs, tyrants, and thugs.

The odds are against you.

And so is this……..first Muslim Brohood President.

PappyD61 on July 6, 2013 at 12:25 PM

The leader of the opposition in Tunisia was assassinated. I suppose that’s one definition of success.

Ronnie on July 6, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Ivan Watson Ivan Watson ‏@IvanCNN 9m

Demonstrator in wheel chair confronts riot police: what you are doing is illegal! #Istanbul pic.twitter.com/AuVZTUfmcY

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 12:25 PM

davidk:Yup,and so it begins:)

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Egypt’s President Morsi removed from power

Egypt’s Islamist coalition calls for more protests on Sunday against ‘coup’ – @Reuters

57 secs ago by editor
=========================

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 12:33 PM

We got it backwards in Egypt,

Who’s this “we”?

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2013 at 12:34 PM

They could always invite the French back.

wolly4321 on July 6, 2013 at 12:34 PM

Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto points out to IBD that one of America’s greatest success stories — Japan — under another military government, that of Gen. Douglas MacArthur — also focused on enacting economic freedom, particularly property rights, before restoring political freedom.

Actually, forcing UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER on Japan was far more important in this development. Otherwise, the Japanese would not have accepted MacArthur’s rule.

Of course, nowadays, we do neither forcing unconditional surrender nor re-acculturation of enemies – the foundations of the great, lasting success of WWII.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2013 at 12:37 PM

0bama has installed a Jew as President of Egypt!

Heh, Saturday Night Live should hire these guys for staff writers.

LegendHasIt on July 6, 2013 at 12:38 PM

Is Tunisia like one of those underwater Atlantis-type worlds ruled by tuna?

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on July 6, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Because tbe farther west you go the less money they have?

What’s going on in Algeria?

Honest question. I don’t know.

wolly4321 on July 6, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Does it have anything to do with their respective literacy rates? Or maybe that the Tunisian revolt was against socialism/cronyism, while the Egyptian revolt was against market reforms?

Count to 10 on July 6, 2013 at 12:43 PM

Islam doesn’t need democracy, it needs demolition and a reboot to the 21st century.

fogw on July 6, 2013 at 12:06 PM

So Un-PC but true. Izlam is the root of all problems in the ME.

slickwillie2001 on July 6, 2013 at 12:52 PM

From above:

Compromise alone wouldn’t have forestalled the protests that led to Mursi’s overthrow. But it would have signaled a willingness to govern on behalf of the whole populace, not just those who voted for the Brotherhood.

And how, pray tell, is this different from Obama governing only on behalf of the Obamabots, rather than the whole populace?

We are, in our own way, headed to where Egypt has gone.

tngmv on July 6, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Reuters India ‏@ReutersIndia 8m

Mohamed Elbaradei to be named Egypt’s interim prime minister later on Saturday – presidency source

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Humeyra Pamuk ‏@PamukHum 26m

Police toma sprayed water on protesters in Taksim sq, followed by rounds of tear gas #occupygezi #turkey pic.twitter.com/tns7vB3Dn0

https://twitter.com/PamukHum/status/353551615560650754/photo/1

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 12:59 PM

OT, or not

Welcome to America, circa 2013.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2013 at 1:02 PM

And any western tourist that goes to Tunisia /Djerba is a fool risking their life if they get caught in the wrong part of the countries. I was there in 2000 and the anti-western hostility from the islamists was palpable, if your eyes were opened. I’ve lost count of how many tourists were killed before 9/11 and since. Still they keep coming and still the jihadii count coup.

AH_C on July 6, 2013 at 1:05 PM

If Obama had followed Hayek and de Soto instead of Marx and Alisnsky…

petefrt on July 6, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Just drill here. Cut off the money. Problem solved.

If they kill each other, I really don’t care. They have been for thousands of years.

We care why? Oil. And we have plenty of our own.

But there seems to be a secondary interest with this dogeating pResident, huh?

Before WWII, who gave a crap about Northern Africa. Short of pirates. We were warned long ago.

Just drill here. Starve them.

We analyze democracy there? Tunisia,, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey,

We better analyze it here.

wolly4321 on July 6, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Egypt’s President Morsi removed from power

Senior member of Muslim Brotherhood’s political party says it rejects appointment of ElBaradei as prime minister – @Reuters

1 min ago by editor

canopfor on July 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM

In case anybody hasn’t noticed, Tunisia is still an economic basket case with angry jihadis still making bloody mischief, hither and yon.

They’re less a train wreck than Libya, but Egypt is only slightly more stable in comparison.

CPT. Charles on July 6, 2013 at 12:01 PM

Really? So what’s happening in Egypt now is really the people inputting their opinions to a all caring Morsi regime? Hmmmmm….

timberline on July 6, 2013 at 1:13 PM

If you don’t like using Pinochet as a positive example, IBD has another:

Japan … or South Korea, or Taiwan.

Dusty on July 6, 2013 at 1:14 PM

We are, in our own way, headed to where Egypt has gone.

tngmv on July 6, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Yes.

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Obama is a divider. He divides and conquers. That is how he got elected and is how he shaped the Egyption election along with Google and other internet manipulators. He supporterd the Muslim Brotherhood for obvious reasons and they, like him, do not believe in democracy. Now both sides blame him for his manipulation as they should and everyone loses as they always do with Obama.

volsense on July 6, 2013 at 1:27 PM

Quick elections are not the answer in Egypt. The nation needs time to develop competing political voices that can write a constitution that truly reflects the will of the people rather than the agenda of one party so that all succeeding elections can be free and fair, and a government that can share the successes and failures with the free people it governs.

Just don’t use the Constitution of the United States of America as a model: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/06/ginsburg-to-egyptians-wouldnt-use-us-constitution-as-model/

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 1:28 PM

McCain urges US to suspend Egypt military aid

US Republican Senator John McCain has called on the US government to suspend financial aid to the Egyptian army, following a military coup that overthrew the elected president Mohamed Morsi.

“We have to suspend aid to Egyptian military because the military has overturned the vote of the people,” McCain, who is also a member of the Senate’s Foreign Relations Committee, said on Friday.

“We cannot repeat the same mistakes that we made in other times of our history by supporting removal of freely elected governments.”

IOW, McCain would have called for a suspension of military aid to Nazi Germany if the colonels had succeeded in removing Hitler and his cohorts from power.

Like Obama, McCain always winds up on the wrong side of history.

Resist We Much on July 6, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Bolton on FNC just said about the Egyptian revolution that democracy should not be the highest ideal. Liberty should be the highest ideal.

+100 for clear thinking.

petefrt on July 6, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Let’s not forget that tiny, little detail that under Tunisia’s former dictators, Islamists tended to die in the prisons. I think it was due to the prisons being so dank.

thuja on July 6, 2013 at 1:35 PM

ElBaradai, the wuss of the world, named PM of Egypt.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2013 at 1:46 PM

Like Obama, McCain always winds up on the wrong side of history.

Resist We Much on July 6, 2013 at 1:30 PM

McCain’s father and grandfather can’t stand him, from their graves. He has become the butt of the world.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2013 at 1:48 PM

It’s easier to explain then that.

Tunisa was a colony of france

Lybia was a colony of Italy

egypt was basically a colony of england.

Hmm let’s see

Italy is a failed state today. So it’s colonies learned about being a failed state…

tunisa learned from france to “get along with the relgious”

and
Egypt learned from England. And england today doesn’t know what it is much like Egypt today.

unseen on July 6, 2013 at 1:52 PM

Just don’t use the Constitution of the United States of America as a model: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/06/ginsburg-to-egyptians-wouldnt-use-us-constitution-as-model/

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 1:28 PM

that in a nutshell is what is wrong with this country, why bush faile din Irwq and why Obama continues to fail in Afgan, the middle east etc. Not only should we be exporting the consititution we should require those countries we “free” from dictators to adopt that document.

unseen on July 6, 2013 at 1:56 PM

Some of us liked Pinochet from day one. Allende had to go in spite of what our press said.
Democracy is not the end all and be all. The founders set up a republic. They set up a somewhat democratic way to choose a president. Choosing senators was entirely up to the states. Some rules were provided states as to how they would choose representatives.
As an originalist, I liked it better before the feds got more involved in state proceedures. The involements which were neccesary include ending slavery and treating all groups the same in the census and during voting.

burt on July 6, 2013 at 2:08 PM

Just so that we are clear on exactly who McCain is supporting…

Morsi supporters in Alexandria murder teen protestors by throwing them off of roof

Resist We Much on July 6, 2013 at 2:08 PM

Morsi supporters in Alexandria murder teen protestors by throwing them off of roof

Resist We Much on July 6, 2013 at 2:08 PM

Throwing someone off of a roof is one way Muslims deal with homosexuals. I wonder if the teen was gay. You get an impression of the press’s priorities–Islam über alles–when you realize that the MSM wouldn’t report it if he was murdered for being gay.

thuja on July 6, 2013 at 2:17 PM

thuja on July 6, 2013 at 2:17 PM

They murdered more than one. According to reports, the teens were anti-Morsi supporters. There is no mention of any sexual orientation motive. I’m not saying that there isn’t, but at this time, it appears to be ‘just’ a pro and anti Morsi dispute.

Resist We Much on July 6, 2013 at 2:27 PM

OT – Sophie, for your collection.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Throwing someone off of a roof is one way Muslims deal with homosexuals. I wonder if the teen was gay. You get an impression of the press’s priorities–Islam über alles–when you realize that the MSM wouldn’t report it if he was murdered for being gay.

thuja on July 6, 2013 at 2:17 PM

No different from an unwanted puppy.

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 2:41 PM

The question in the headline is silly. There was no democracy in the Egyptian government. Oh, sure, they had an election and whatnot. They had elections in Saddam era Iraq as well…

Egypt held a quick election and wound up with a strongman who had no intention of secular rule, or the rule of any law but his own. The leadership was hardline Islamicist more interested in growing beards, abusing women, and exacting religious persecution. Living conditions dropped precipitously, people lived in constant fear, and there was no indication that improvement was on the horizon.

So the people demonstrated, demanded, revolted. Those were the real acts of democracy. Call it a recall, an impeachment, a running out of town on a rail, whatever. The people decided the form of government they were under was not best for them and they changed it….are in the process of changing it. You know, “the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” and all that.

dczombie on July 6, 2013 at 2:45 PM

No different from an unwanted puppy.

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Why don’t you argue abortion in the abortion threads? Not everything is about the issue.

thuja on July 6, 2013 at 3:20 PM

davidk on July 6, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Thanks for posting that, appreciate it. It was a great speech too.

bluefox on July 6, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Thanks, Schad!

Resist We Much on July 6, 2013 at 4:42 PM

He employed a brilliant group of mostly University of Chicago-educated young Chilean economists, known as the Chicago Boys, to transform the society by cleaning out thousands of weedlike laws choking Chile’s economy — on labor, mining, currency, fishing, vineyards, startups and pensions.

Think maybe our current administration might want to take a look at this? Uh, no – this concept of “We the People” is too abstract for this crew.

MN J on July 6, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Obama stepped in to force the Egyptian elections to be held sooner than they were supposed to be held, which meant no group except the Muslim Brotherhood. Was organized and prepared for the elections. Democracy would have been Egyptian elections occurring as scheduled without interference from Obama. There is no ‘democracy’s where Obama is!

Obama forced our military to help put Al Qaeda in power in Libya, helped put the Muslim Brotherhood in power in Egypt, is trying to/wants to help Jihadists take over Syria, has trampled our Constitution, has used the IRS, ATF, DHS, etc to target Americans, & has been collecting every communication & personal data on every American – making this a tyrannical Socialist state!

Obama’s ‘democracy’ failed in Egypt because the people rejected extremist rule & rejected Obama, which means they are smarter than Americans…who have not done so yet!

easyt65 on July 6, 2013 at 5:17 PM

Throwing someone off of a roof is one way Muslims deal with homosexuals. I wonder if the teen was gay. You get an impression of the press’s priorities–Islam über alles–when you realize that the MSM wouldn’t report it if he was murdered for being gay.

thuja on July 6, 2013 at 2:17 PM

Why don’t you argue abortion [homosexuality] in the abortion [homosexual] threads? Not everything is about the issue.

thuja on July 6, 2013 at 3:20 PM

Fenris on July 6, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Fenris on July 6, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Dude, have you ever heard of the word “relevance”? It’s oftentimes a helpful concept.

thuja on July 6, 2013 at 7:11 PM

I’m late to the party here but I thought I would weigh in. The Sharia Islam cancer is only in remission in Tunisia and the recent chemotherapy treatment in Egypt will only give the patient a few months. Sharia Islam is virulent aggressive and fatal. We have tumors in this country that are feeding off our PC weakness. They will succeed because they will do anything to win…….we will not. Hold your children close……

HatfieldMcCoy on July 6, 2013 at 7:59 PM

Should be easy with the inventive Muslims then. Islams record in economics is unrivaled in history, right up there with their promotion of the rights of man which led to 1776. If only we had built the infrastructure in Afghanistan, we could have broke the bottle neck in bringing Afghanistans products to the worlds market place. Instead they languish in heated warehouses next to the mountain top engines of industry. It may happen in Egypt too sadly, what with all the sand. Imperialist oppressed Muslims never get a break it seems even from Allah with his desire that all live in misery and ignorance. Still, they have sharia and Islam to cling to and give them comfort.

So when will America pay them to be economic wizards with the money you will need to dump on them for pizza and moonrocket start ups?

BL@KBIRD on July 6, 2013 at 8:34 PM

What do you mean it succeeded in Tunisia?
The Arab world is not designed for democracy. It is a byproduct of a 100-year-old European powers’ random line drawing to divide some area of control after WW1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement).

With all the European attempts at teaching the sav4ges some culture and gifting them trillions of dollars via oil revenues for which the Arabs did not have to do a darn thing other than being born on top of it, democratic institutions and statecraft did not pan out in that part of the world. There are multiple layers of conflict that prevent any democratization, and no amount of $$$ can overcome this.

In Europe the Enlightenment happened organically and spread. In the Middle East it never happened. The sav4ges simply came in contact with an enlightened society, thereby having their natural process towards enlightenment permanently destroyed. The “Prime Directive” idea, as borrowed from Star Trek was violated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive).

The concept of democracy is foreign to these people, is structurally impossible the way they are right now, and is likely to not happen for at least another 1-2 centuries, and that’s being optimistic. So don’t tell me that it’s “working” in Tunisia.

AlexB on July 7, 2013 at 1:37 AM

Neither Chile nor Japan are Islamic countries. As for Tunesia, it may be better than Egypt or Libya right now, but just wait, Islam will screw it up in the end.

Slaves of Allah can never be free.

Antivenin on July 7, 2013 at 6:38 AM

Is this Pinochet stuff an elaborate joke satirizing liberals who idolize Stalin? Please. Ed, tell me you’re joking. Per Wikipedia about how great another Pinochet would be:

According to various reports and investigations 1,200–3,200 people were killed, up to 80,000 were interned, and up to 30,000 were tortured by his regime including women and children.

red_herring on July 6, 2013 at 11:59 AM

When making decisions concerning the real world, the three most important words you have to consider are: COMPARED TO WHAT? In the nasty world of geopolitics, you frequently are not given the option of a “morally perfect solution”. When Pinochet launched his coup, Chile was headed to a Communist takeover. Communist takeovers – and the subsequent misrule – are associated with appallingly high death tolls (25 million murdered in the USSR, 60 million dead in China, a third of the population murdered in Cambodia). Compared to this, the death toll under Pinochet, bad as it was, was a rounding error.

The death of 3200 innocent people would be a horrific tragedy. The death of 3200 supporters of the Communist Murder Cult would be….Karma.

SubmarineDoc on July 7, 2013 at 10:15 PM