Videos: Should US cut aid to Egypt over coup?

posted at 4:01 pm on July 5, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The Washington Post editorial board certainly thinks so.  Declaring that “there is no ambiguity about what happened in Egypt on Wednesday,” the editors want American funding cut off until “a genuinely democratic transition” occurs.  They also rip the White House for its ineffectual foreign policy on Egypt over the last two years (h/t reader Peter Rice):

The armed forces forcibly removed and arrested President Mohamad Morsi, who won 51 percent of the vote in a free and fair election little more than a year ago. A constitution ratified by a two-thirds majority in another popular vote last December was suspended; dozens of leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood have been arrested and a number of media outlets shut down. A little-known judge appointed as president and granted the power to rule by decree will be entirely dependent on the armed forces for his authority.

Having not spoken up against the excesses of Mr. Morsi’s government, the Obama administration has, with equal fecklessness, failed to forthrightly oppose the military intervention. But there should be no question that under a law passed by Congress, U.S. aid to Egypt — including the $1.3 billion annual grant to the military — must be suspended.

Some in the administration and Congress will try to avoid this step, because of the armed forces’ history as a U.S. ally and guarantor of peace with Israel. But the suspension of aid is the necessary first step in a U.S. policy that advances the aim Mr. Obama laid out in a Wednesday night statement: “to ensure the lasting restoration of Egypt’s democracy.”

CNN reports that the White House has other priorities at the moment, which are to ensure that the military will protect Americans in Egypt — and to stress that we don’t want to take sides:

CBS, on the other hand, reports that the White House is considering whether to cut off aid after the coup:

Aid to Egypt may potentially be used as leverage to pressure Egypt’s interim government, backed by the nation’s powerful military, to maintain security and bring fresh elections to restore democracy to the country, Obama administration officials tell CBS News.

The White House is now engaging in a high stakes, high-wire balancing act, CBS News’ Jan Crawford reported on “CBS This Morning.”

“On the one hand, they don’t want to be seen as endorsing what appears to be a military coup, but on the other hand, they don’t want to be seen as supporting this ousted Muslim Brotherhood-backed leader who had lost popular support,” explained Crawford.

The bottom line now, Crawford said, is security in Egypt and a quick timeline set for the elections — and that was on President Obama’s agenda on Wednesday.

Using aid as leverage isn’t exactly a novel concept, and in this case it’s practically the only leverage we have in Egypt now after embracing the disastrous Morsi regime.  However, it’s more than a little odd to argue that we should suspend aid over a popular military coup after having provided it for more than 30 years under military rule, first with Anwar Sadat and then with Hosni Mubarak.  Obviously, our aid to the Egyptian military then and now wasn’t in support of enlightened liberal-democratic rule; it was to use the Egyptian military as a way to keep the peace with Israel, and secondarily to keep the Suez Canal open to Western traffic.

What happens if we suspend aid?  The reason that Egypt’s democratic government became unsustainable was because the Muslim Brotherhood turned out to be entirely incompetent and not just a little corrupt. Mostly, though, it’s because of an economic crisis made much worse by both failings of the Muslim Brotherhood.  The only way to fix that problem is to create enough space so that other, more competent and less radical political factions have enough time and space to effectively organize.  That’s what should have happened the first time around, rather than the relatively quick elections that made the Brotherhood the only effectively organized political group in Egypt.  Snap elections would create a similar problem now, perhaps especially so if we cut Egypt off from the aid it receives from the US to keep the peace with Israel.

The situation in Egypt is a mess, made worse by our earlier pressure and interference.  Maybe we should learn a lesson from that, and remember why we’re providing the aid in the first place.

Besides, some people in Egypt take offense at the notion that the action taken this week is a coup at all:


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Yes. But then we never should have offered them anything after the MBs took control anyway.

dentarthurdent on July 5, 2013 at 4:06 PM

Suspending aid until this whole thing settles out would be a good idea.

Johnnyreb on July 5, 2013 at 4:06 PM

YOU funded the AreapSpringBullshit.

YOU funded the revolution backed by their military.

obama is a global disaster and YOU pay for it.

Hillary and Kerry are the other 2 stooges.

Schadenfreude on July 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM

Contingent on peace with our allies in the region.

Jocundus on July 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM

Arab, alas.

Schadenfreude on July 5, 2013 at 4:08 PM

This is not a coup. This is a revolution, backed by the military.

Schadenfreude on July 5, 2013 at 4:08 PM

No. This wasn’t a coup in the traditional sense. This was the army giving power back to the people after the Muslim Brotherhood shanghied the new government.

Coups are generally performed quietly. This “coup” was called for by 17 million people. And if the Army hadn’t stepped in, there would have been a lot more bloodshed.

Honestly, if the army remained in charge of Egypt, it’d be a great outcome for the U.S.

hawksruleva on July 5, 2013 at 4:10 PM

There’s something about Dempsey I don’t trust…jus sayin.

d1carter on July 5, 2013 at 4:10 PM

The two sides are now stoning each other, no kidding.

Schadenfreude on July 5, 2013 at 4:10 PM

I heard it was merely a recall…watering the tree of freedom?

d1carter on July 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM

The Egyption people, what comes next aside, have displayed more courage than the rest of the world.

Schadenfreude on July 5, 2013 at 4:12 PM

This wasn’t a coup.
It is a popular uprising.

NeoKong on July 5, 2013 at 4:13 PM

But, but, what about that speech..? Oh, and that’s the first time I’ve seen network news in years.

d1carter on July 5, 2013 at 4:13 PM

We shouldn’t be selling things like M1 tanks and top-rate aircraft overseas, anyway, except to trusted allies like NATO, Japan, and Israel.

Given Obama’s revealed nature, cutting off aid sounds like a spiteful move against a country trying to throw off the budding Islamism of the Obama Brotherhood. It’s still a form of American imperialism to punish a people for conducting their internal affairs in a way that pose no threat to the United States.

Liam on July 5, 2013 at 4:14 PM

We should stop funding everyone, for any reason…

JohnGalt23 on July 5, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Money never buys loyalty. Just disgruntled silence.

portlandon on July 5, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Just think if Americans had the balls to toss out our despot…

hillsoftx on July 5, 2013 at 4:15 PM

The coup was the election of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood! They went into a rapid over reach by persecuting Christians and invoking Sharia and other authoritarian steps…..the Army had seen enough! The economy went into a freefall after Morsi started implementing his plans!

BHO will not go down as a Foreign Policy wonk…..more like a Jimmah Carter dupe!

tomshup on July 5, 2013 at 4:16 PM

The two sides are now stoning each other, no kidding.

Schadenfreude on July 5, 2013 at 4:10 PM

All I can picture from that is Bob Dylan singing “everybody must get stoned”.
But they obviously aren’t doing it his way…..

dentarthurdent on July 5, 2013 at 4:17 PM

We should suspend all foreign aid until the USA has free and fair elections.

slickwillie2001 on July 5, 2013 at 4:20 PM

…the suspension of aid is the necessary first step in a U.S. policy that advances the aim Mr. Obama laid out in a Wednesday night statement: “to ensure the lasting restoration of Egypt’s democracy.”

No, it isn’t, because:

…it’s more than a little odd to argue that we should suspend aid over a popular military coup after having provided it for more than 30 years under military rule, first with Anwar Sadat and then with Hosni Mubarak.

Obviously, our aid to the Egyptian military then and now wasn’t in support of enlightened liberal-democratic rule; it was to use the Egyptian military as a way to keep the peace with Israel, and secondarily to keep the Suez Canal open to Western traffic.

Sacramento on July 5, 2013 at 4:25 PM

What happens if we suspend aid? The reason that Egypt’s democratic government became unsustainable was because the Muslim Brotherhood turned out to be entirely incompetent and not just a little corrupt. Mostly, though, it’s because of an economic crisis made much worse by both failings of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yeah funny how a 7th century business model doesn’t work anymore, not to mention their barbaric legal code.

Was the MB democratically elected?

I wonder if Iranian TV is televising the Egyptian revolution.

dogsoldier on July 5, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Should US cut aid to Egypt

Yes.

over coup?

No, just because we shouldn’t be giving them aid.

JFKY on July 5, 2013 at 4:27 PM

Oh and I agree with Galt upthread. We are broke. No aid to anyone while crap like this is going on:

http://www.wral.com/camp-lejeune-cancels-fourth-of-july-celebration/12420066/

dogsoldier on July 5, 2013 at 4:28 PM

Dear Lord NO.

Tell me what vital American interest is at stake in choosing a side (which we’ve already done).

Furthermore, WHICH side?

itsspideyman on July 5, 2013 at 4:28 PM

Let’s face it, we have been supplying money and weapons for most of my lifetime (I am 56) to Egypt and other countries in the Middle East in an attempt to appease them or to thwart Soviet influences there. It does not always work. I am not sure what the region would look like if we had not done that, but that has been US policy since Kennedy was in office. It might be time to rethink that.

Johnnyreb on July 5, 2013 at 4:32 PM

It’s a revolution, not a coup Mr Obama!

I’ll accept that reasonable argument. It certainly saves me the trouble of looking for what provisions their Constitution has for removal of the country’s President.

It also saves me the trouble of arguing that we should cut off aid, but I’d have to read the enabling legislation requiring the cut off in case of a coup.

Dusty on July 5, 2013 at 4:33 PM

I’m torn between 1) cutting all aid, or 2) arming both sides.

faraway on July 5, 2013 at 4:35 PM

Goons Vrs. Goons are Set,Match,…ready to commence:

Egypt’s President Morsi removed from power

Egypt military spokesman says they will intervene to ‘separate’ clashing pro- and anti-Morsi protesters near Tahrir Square – @AFP

5 mins ago from blogs.aljazeera.com by editor
=================================================

‘Massive fight’ reported between pro- and anti-Morsi protesters in Cairo bridge near Tahrir Square – @AymanM

2 hours ago from twitter.com/AymanM by editor
=================================================

http://www.breakingnews.com/

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/egypts-president-morsi-removed-from-power

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 4:38 PM

Using aid as leverage isn’t exactly a novel concept, and in this case it’s practically the only leverage we have in Egypt now after embracing the disastrous Morsi regime. However, it’s more than a little odd to argue that we should suspend aid over a popular military coup after having provided it for more than 30 years under military rule, first with Anwar Sadat and then with Hosni Mubarak.

What’s the law say. What’s our law say? If it fits the description of a condition where aid should be cut off, then we chould cut off aid. Congress can always make an exception by passing a specific law to reinstate the aid.

It’s more than a little odd to complain about the President ignoring the law in some instances, like delaying provisions of Obamacare, and then going about approving of the ignoring of laws because you think it “odd” to not to ignore it.

Dusty on July 5, 2013 at 4:39 PM

Only $250M of last years aid was nonmilitary direct supply grants. That $250M was the aid Obama gave Morsi after the Brotherhood took over. It was a gift without Congressional approval as it violated the foreign aid authorization that requires Obama to certify the Brotherhood was not a terrorist organization or antithetical to USA. Obama had no reason other than the sheer pleasure of watching another Muslim nutcase attempt to start a war.

pat on July 5, 2013 at 4:39 PM

Cut off ALL aid to ALL muslem countries.

They’re not, and never will be, worth even a dime of American taxpayer’s money.

Rebar on July 5, 2013 at 4:40 PM

No aid cut. They just did us and themselves a big favor and you don’t swat your dog when he brings you the paper. Now, down the road if there is no return to civilian rule you can revisit the aid issue but right now, I would send the aid and add a box of chocolates with a big Thank You note.

KW64 on July 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

A constitution ratified by a two-thirds majority in another popular vote last December was suspended;

Just a quibble but last I looked 63% doesn’t equal two thirds. Participation was somewhere around 30 to 33%.

Dusty on July 5, 2013 at 4:49 PM

WaPo: That means tolerance for all peaceful political forces, including the Muslim Brotherhood — whose leaders, including Mr. Morsi, should be immediately released.

The MB declared war on the US in Oct 2010, and is a terrorist organization.

faraway on July 5, 2013 at 4:52 PM

Live Feed Streaming:

Live
****

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/egypts-president-morsi-removed-from-power

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 4:59 PM

Wonder what it would take for our citizenry to finally get pissed off enough to flood DC like that. Too fat and comfortable still, I guess.

Midas on July 5, 2013 at 4:59 PM

What we’re buying is compliance with the Camp David Accords. And despite everything, Egypt still does comply.

Steven Den Beste on July 5, 2013 at 4:59 PM

It was Treason to give it to the Brotherhood.

lilium479 on July 5, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Barry O. will continue funding to the Muslim Brotherhood…

albill on July 5, 2013 at 5:07 PM

Wonder what it would take for our citizenry to finally get pissed off enough to flood DC like that. Too fat and comfortable still, I guess.

Midas on July 5, 2013 at 4:59 PM

Cut off their Food Stamps…

albill on July 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM

Dear Lord NO.

Tell me what vital American interest is at stake in choosing a side (which we’ve already done).

Furthermore, WHICH side?

itsspideyman on July 5, 2013 at 4:28 PM

The vital American interest is global oil supply through the Suez Canal.

As for sides, we don’t have to choose sides. We back the military, which will act as a stabilizing force which just happens to coincide with U.S. interests.

hawksruleva on July 5, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Maybe we should increase military support because of the coup. Heck, Homeland Security and the IRS have a couple billion bullets laying around. Oh, wait. Barack Obama, John McCain, “Miss Lucy” Graham and Marco Rubio think we should be supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda.

bw222 on July 5, 2013 at 5:13 PM

We should hold it over their heads and manipulate the hell out them to get what we want and what the secular reformists want.

AYNBLAND on July 5, 2013 at 5:13 PM

At every key decision point on Egypt since 2008 Obama/Clinton/Kerry made the wrong decision for the USA.

DaMav on July 5, 2013 at 5:14 PM

The situation in Egypt is a mess, made worse by our earlier pressure and interference. Maybe we should learn a lesson from that, and remember why we’re providing the aid in the first place.

This is the key concept I’ve been churning in my mind the last few days. It could be applied to anywhere that Obozo has meddled: Libya, Israel, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Korea, and Washington, DC to namea few.

freedomfirst on July 5, 2013 at 5:23 PM

If Obama didn’t meddle in the first place, few of these questions would be coming up. Now, he is more adrift since his initial doings failed, so it’s time to do damage control and hope everyone forgets the past two years. That’s why the media are talking about ‘a second chance for Obama’, and the White House put out that self-serving photo of him with his staff.

I’ll bet dollars to donuts most of the talk centered around how to protect Obama and keep him looking good.

Liam on July 5, 2013 at 5:23 PM

At every key decision point on Egypt everything since 2008 Obama/Clinton/Kerry made the wrong decision for the USA.

DaMav on July 5, 2013 at 5:14 PM

Slight edit. ;)

Midas on July 5, 2013 at 5:23 PM

“On the one hand, they don’t want to be seen as endorsing what appears to be a military coup, but on the other hand, they don’t want to be seen as supporting this ousted Muslim Brotherhood-backed leader who had lost popular support,” explained Crawford.

Obama waived the human rights and civil liberties requirements for US aid two months ago for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Ordinarily, I am opposed to ALL foreign aid, but in this case, we really have to ask if we want Egypt to completely collapse. The Egyptian military has control of the Suez Canal, as did the MoFoBros. If the Canal is closed, it would add 6,500 miles to a tanker, which would cause a great increase in oil prices.

Yes, if the idiots in Washington didn’t hate oil and invest so stupidly in green energy projects that are incapable of powering our economy, we wouldn’t have this problem. We wouldn’t have to worry about the Suez being closed.

Despite what many pundits are saying, we need the Egyptian military more than it needs us at this conjuncture in time.

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

The only countries we should be giving money to are those that have the same shared beliefs as we do. Trying to bribe countries to like us never works.

RoadRunner on July 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

At every key decision point on Egypt since 2008 Obama/Clinton/Kerry made the wrong decision for the USA.

DaMav on July 5, 2013 at 5:14 PM

I doubt it would have been any different had John McCain been elected. McCain invariably picks the wrong side.

bw222 on July 5, 2013 at 5:30 PM

“to ensure the lasting restoration of Egypt’s democracy.”

Oh BS! Until they stop with their theocratic bs, they won’t ever have a democracy. Tight now, we should offer more aid to the military if they put our interests first.
When will these butt-heads learn that it’s not the talk it’s the walk?

Vince on July 5, 2013 at 5:31 PM

The Iranian regime today blamed former President Mohammad Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood for the current crisis in Egypt.

Fars News reported:

Chairman of the Iranian Parliament’s National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Alaeddin Boroujerdi said that ousted President Mohamed Mursi and Muslim Brotherhood are to be blamed for the current political crisis in Egypt.

“What happened in Egypt was actually a soft coup staged by the Egyptian army, which was unfortunately the result of repeated mistakes by ousted Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi and Muslim Brotherhood …,” Boroujerdi said on Thursday.

The senior Iranian legislator underlined that Mursi’s repeated mistakes, Muslim Brotherhood’s power grab and their lack of attention to other political groups and prominent political figures who had a part in Egypt’s developments resulted in Mursi’s ouster from power.

After days of massive anti-government protests in Egypt, the military overthrew the country’s President Mohamed Mursi.

Late Wednesday in a speech on state television, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, the head of Egypt’s army, announced that Mursi was no longer in office.

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:31 PM

Despite what many pundits are saying, we need the Egyptian military more than it needs us at this conjuncture in time.

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

THIS!

Vince on July 5, 2013 at 5:33 PM

20% of the Egyptian population represented by people of all religions and all walks of life; the Egyptian military that has been a stabilizing force in Egypt for the past 40 years and has had many of the same objectives as the United States. These are the ingredients for a peaceful westernized society that will for their own good do their best to keep the region stable.

These are people who want things that are collaterally beneficial to the United States. The opposition are a bunch of Muslim thugs whose desires are anathema to our own.

WHY SHOULD WE NOT CHOOSE SIDES AND GIVE AID TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE EVERY INTEREST IN KEEPING THE REGION STABLE AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE OUR ENEMIES?

NOMOBO on July 5, 2013 at 5:33 PM

No! The US should not give Egypt aid not because of the coup – which the Egyptians had every right to want & celebrate – but because the money for the welfare of Egyptians is not the responsibility of the American taxpayer!

Lets not forget that a very large percentage of Muslim Egyptians despise our infidel guts not only for religious reasons (for Allah’s sake, as they say) but for supporting Israel which they would like to annihilate.

Lets stop dumping our money on death-to-America Muslim countries that are trying hard to self-destruct anyway. Let Saudi Arabia dump their money on them, or Europe which is much closer. Why must we be the generous sucker the mid-East always plays us for when we have major economic problems & needs at home?

For years we have been essentially bribing (with billions) Egypt to keep peace with Israel. Must be the military weapons industry lobby; the Egyptian military is no where near stupid enough to attack Israel anyway. Let’s stop the expensive nonsense.

Chessplayer on July 5, 2013 at 5:42 PM

Despite what many pundits are saying, we need the Egyptian military more than it needs us at this conjuncture JUNCTURE in time.

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

FIFM

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:52 PM

The Iranian regime today blamed former President Mohammad Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood for the current crisis in Egypt.

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:31 PM

Well, even flashing VCRs are right once a week.

Steve Eggleston on July 5, 2013 at 5:52 PM

Nose.

Face.

Knife.

Stupid choice.

They do not go well together.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 5:56 PM

Meh. It’s not a coup/coup, and we have much to lose if the people starve there.

I would give aid on one condition: economic reform to allow private property and private economy. That’s the only permanent way out of starvation and would help in transitioning to democracy.

Capitalism or no aid.

Right now all they’re doing is replacing one tyrant with another.

PattyJ on July 5, 2013 at 5:59 PM

at this conjuncture in time.

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

Conjunction junction, what’s your function? [There's a song in there somewhere.]

Editorial tip, if I may. Point works fine. :-)

Nonetheless, you are still more eruditer than I are.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 5:59 PM

Despite what many pundits are saying, we need the Egyptian military more than it needs us at this conjuncture JUNCTURE in time.

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

FIFM

Resist We Much on July 5, 2013 at 5:52 PM

Resist We Much:

I do hate to see this,but I’m beginning to like the Egyptian Military,especially since
they have a close-working relationship,with the US Military!:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:25 PM

The Egyptian military.

From the top down, or bottom up, what other segment of the Egyptian population does so much, puts up with so much, undergoes the hardships for the sake of the nation…and what other group in Egyptian society offers such social mobility…Omar Suleiman, Tantawi, al-Sissi…all came from dirt poor to far better…and Team Obama wants to cut them off at the knees so the jackals can take over again?

Now, a serious question, under Carter’s mandate with the Camp David Accords, the US is obligated by law (Congress approved it) to provide a set amount of aid to Egypt and Israel annually as guarantor of the Accords. If the aid is withheld, do the Accords then become moot?

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 6:42 PM

We need to keep the military in Egypt in great shape because they will hold the country together and prevent bedlam.

Delsa on July 5, 2013 at 6:43 PM

The WH moves:

The administration has urged the Egyptian military to stop using heavy-handed tactics, according to two U.S. officials who asked not to be identified commenting on the private communications. They said the administration is concerned that some in the military may want to provoke the Islamists to violence and provide a rationale for crushing the movement once and for all.

Wouldn’t crushing the Islamists be a good thing?

Whose friggin’ side is the WH on?

BobMbx on July 5, 2013 at 6:47 PM

Thee Latest:

The Associated Press ‏@AP 46m

AP VIDEO: The Egyptian military clashes with supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi: http://apne.ws/127OHYX -MM
=====================================================

Published on Jul 5, 2013
**************************

Two days after Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi was ousted, the military is clashing with his supporters. The Egyptian Health Ministry says 10 people have been killed and more than 210 have been injured in violent protests around the country. (July 5)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbSmE1ntJ9M&feature=youtu.be
===========================================================

The Associated Press ‏@AP 3m

BREAKING: Egypt security spokesman say Muslim Brotherhood strongman, deputy head Khairat el-Shater arrested. -MM
=======================================================

Egypt’s President Morsi removed from power

Egypt officials: 12 killed in clashes in Alexandria, bringing nationwide toll to 30 – @AP

14 mins ago from abclocal.go.com by editor
================================================

Egypt’s President Morsi removed from power

Khairat Al Shater, deputy leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, has been arrested, according to a tweet from his son – @Reem_Abdellatif

29 mins ago from twitter.com/Reem_Abdellatif by editor
===========================================================

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:48 PM

The Egyptian military.

From the top down, or bottom up, what other segment of the Egyptian population does so much, puts up with so much, undergoes the hardships for the sake of the nation…and what other group in Egyptian society offers such social mobility…Omar Suleiman, Tantawi, al-Sissi…all came from dirt poor to far better…and Team Obama wants to cut them off at the knees so the jackals can take over again?

Now, a serious question, under Carter’s mandate with the Camp David Accords, the US is obligated by law (Congress approved it) to provide a set amount of aid to Egypt and Israel annually as guarantor of the Accords. If the aid is withheld, do the Accords then become moot?

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 6:42 PM

coldwarrior:


Oh Sh*t,that might be the ultimate goal,…the accords!

Most Brilliant:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Muslim Brotherhood strongman, deputy head Khairat el-Shater arrested. -MM

No shat?

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 6:53 PM

Results for #EGYPT
*******************

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23EGYPT

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:55 PM

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Certainly would alleviate our obligations to protect Israel.

The Accords are the only defense “treaty” we have with Israel.

We have various memos of understanding and working level agreements…but Camp David…that is the legal basis for all of these.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 6:57 PM

Muslim Brotherhood strongman, deputy head Khairat el-Shater arrested. -MM

No shat?

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 6:53 PM

coldwarrior:

Safe to assume,that Egypt is on the brink of KAOS,
couple of RPG’s and car bombs away,gawd forbid!:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:57 PM

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Certainly would alleviate our obligations to protect Israel.

The Accords are the only defense “treaty” we have with Israel.

We have various memos of understanding and working level agreements…but Camp David…that is the legal basis for all of these.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 6:57 PM

coldwarrior:

Now you have my attention,I was a toddler,er,teenager
back then,but I do remember the grenade/machine attack of the dignitarys,along with Sadat!:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:59 PM

ColdWarrior: I like this persons reporting,off the Egypt twitter:)

Nervana Mahmoud ‏@Nervana_1 4m

Circulated photo of #Shater arrested. cam’t confirm authenticity via ‏@TheSecular pic.twitter.com/7wwLWbgt5x #Egypt

https://twitter.com/TheSecular/status/353285430600425472/photo/1
=================================================================

https://twitter.com/Nervana_1

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 7:01 PM

How about sending some of our abundant food and stop turning food into fuel?

What do you think of this theory?
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/07/the-end-of-obamas-egypt-amateur-hour.php

onlineanalyst on July 5, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Our Ambassador was shilling for Morsi until the other guys won. We got ourselves too involved and on the wrong side

Sekhmet on July 5, 2013 at 7:04 PM

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:57 PM

When you go down to clean out the basement after one of those epic Mid West floods…sewers backing up, mildew, rot and all that muck…you know it is going to be a dirty dirty job…but if you do not do it…the entire house is going to fall.

Yes, it will get a bit dirty in Egypt…but the sewage, the mildew, the rot…somebody has got to clean it up.

Give the military time to do that.

Give Adli Mansour and the interim government and the Egyptian Supreme Court the ability to do what they have to do as well.

Team Obama would rather cut them all off and let the sewage back up again, let the mildew fester and grow and the rot deepen….they are well familiar with that stuff.

.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 7:05 PM

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 6:57 PM

Team Obama would rather cut them all off and let the sewage back up again, let the mildew fester and grow and the rot deepen….they are well familiar with that stuff.

.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 7:05 PM

coldwarrior:Great analogy:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 7:09 PM

Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP 31m

US hopes aid will lure Egyptian army back to democracy by @ivancouronne http://bit.ly/1aKVlcj #Egypt
===========================================

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jGAReP-8KSc614WeTizeKJDftoDw?docId=CNG.d0cf9ccc8120135bc1bdaeee439c3ac7.4c1

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 7:18 PM

Besides, some people in Egypt take offense at the notion that the action taken this week is a coup at all:

Some people in other places take offense at the notion.

The muscle was provided by popular support. The military just rolled. As far as taking control, there was no other option. It doesn’t matter if they wanted to or didn’t want to, they had to anyway.

Axe on July 5, 2013 at 7:36 PM

What we’re buying is compliance with the Camp David Accords. And despite everything, Egypt still does comply.

[Steven Den Beste on July 5, 2013 at 4:59 PM]

Now, a serious question, under Carter’s mandate with the Camp David Accords, the US is obligated by law (Congress approved it) to provide a set amount of aid to Egypt and Israel annually as guarantor of the Accords. If the aid is withheld, do the Accords then become moot?

[coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 6:42 PM]

Thanks for those comments (and to anyone else who I might have missed in pointing this out.) I’d been for the suspension based on the general indications that the law would require it (though wanting Congress to reestablish it with specific legislation) and have not been able to actually find the law.

If your points are actually related to treaty or general agreement obligations or a specific law in regard to this agreement, then I have no problem with changing my opinion, as I would consider these provisions for the aid to supersede a general/generic provision that would require suspension.

Oh and thanks, credential, not educated, news media and foreign affairs talking head pundit ‘experts’ for, um, … absolutely nothing.

Dusty on July 5, 2013 at 7:39 PM

Whew, Mark Steyn portrays a pretty grim picture of Egypt and her history.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/352784/princess-and-brotherhood-mark-steyn

onlineanalyst on July 5, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Goon on Goon Gun Action:

ANA: Clashes in Cairo between Pro & Anti-Morsi Demonstrators Cairo – 05th
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Published on Jul 5, 2013

Clashes broke out on friday evening in central Cairo just by Tahrir Square on the 6th of October bridge between pro & anti-Morsi demonstrators. the video shows a number of scenes which convey the events there on. including use of live ammunition on both sides.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2XpS3A03R0&feature=youtu.be

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 7:49 PM

onlineanalyst on July 5, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Good article…typical Steyn.

But, Steyn is in error, just a little bit, about us getting nothing out of the Mubarak regime…we did…in spades.

And some of the stuff Mubarak enabled, assisted with, or just plain did at our behest, when it comes out over time, declassified, may at least vindicate part of his regime.

Sure assisted me with a project or two having nothing to do with Egypt.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 7:56 PM

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 7:49 PM

The Army has less than a week to tamp this down. Otherwise the frequency of foreign fighters and other jihadis making Egypt their playground a la Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechneya, increases exponentially. And it immediately goes from a Moslem Brotherhood inspired civil war to an all out jihadi free for all.

If the Army is not permitted to root out the Brotherhood…and at the same time make it safe for necessary food and fuel supplies to be distributed to the outlying cities and to the south…then the entire pharaonic mess goes right down the dumper.

Trying to “impose” democracy in the middle of open warfare is a pretty short-sighted idea.

But never underestimate the ability of Team Obama to get it wrong, yet again.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 8:03 PM

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 7:56 PM

I thought that Steyn was a little hard on Mubarak, too.

onlineanalyst on July 5, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Could a bit of Horatio Herbert Lord Kitchener, arriving at Suez…

Jolly good show and all that…beat these wogs into civil society in no time, what.

Worked in Khartoum.

Bloody well did.

Harummph, harumph.

Good show.

/s/

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Could a bit of Horatio Herbert Lord Kitchener, arriving at Suez…

Jolly good show and all that…beat these wogs into civil society in no time, what.

Worked in Khartoum.

Bloody well did.

Harummph, harumph.

Good show.

/s/

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 8:14 PM

lol

What’s all this, then? Half-penny farthing the old world could whip these into shape without sweating enough to wet the shank of a volunteer bobby.

Axe on July 5, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Axe on July 5, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Spot on.

Leave it to Obama to make haggis out of a good Dover sole.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 8:23 PM

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 7:49 PM

The Army has less than a week to tamp this down. Otherwise the frequency of foreign fighters and other jihadis making Egypt their playground a la Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechneya, increases exponentially. And it immediately goes from a Moslem Brotherhood inspired civil war to an all out jihadi free for all.

If the Army is not permitted to root out the Brotherhood…and at the same time make it safe for necessary food and fuel supplies to be distributed to the outlying cities and to the south…then the entire pharaonic mess goes right down the dumper.

Trying to “impose” democracy in the middle of open warfare is a pretty short-sighted idea.

But never underestimate the ability of Team Obama to get it wrong, yet again.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 8:03 PM

coldwarrior:

Syria,Part Deux,lord what a nightmare,and Obama,the Left have a warped sense of what Democracy is!:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 8:25 PM

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 8:14 PM

lol

What’s all this, then? Half-penny farthing the old world could whip these into shape without sweating enough to wet the shank of a volunteer bobby.

Axe on July 5, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Axe:

I wonder what Lawrence of Arabia would say about Obama,
about this Islamic attempt take-over of Egypt!:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 8:26 PM

****************** BREAKING ***************************??

Another Player:

Edward Snowden revealed as source of NSA leak

Venezuela’s President Maduro offers asylum to NSA leaker Snowden – @Reuters

8 mins ago from http://www.reuters.com by editor
==============================================

Venezuela’s Maduro offers asylum to U.S. fugitive Snowden

CARACAS | Fri Jul 5, 2013 8:16pm EDT
*************************************

(Reuters) – Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said on Friday he had decided to offer asylum to former U.S. intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, who has petitioned several countries to avoid capture by Washington.

“I have decided to offer humanitarian asylum to the young American, Edward Snowden, so that in the fatherland of (Simon) Bolivar and (Hugo) Chavez, he can come and live away from the imperial North American persecution,” Maduro told a televised parade marking Venezuela’s independence day.

Snowden is believed to be holed up in the transit area of a Moscow international airport.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/06/us-usa-security-venezuela-idUSBRE96500420130706

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Sh*t,wrong thread,disregard above posty!

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 8:32 PM

I wonder what Lawrence of Arabia would say about Obama,
about this Islamic attempt take-over of Egypt!:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 8:26 PM

“El-Orens”, given that name in gratitude by the tribesmen he led…kinda plain sounding, but it did reflect his name…Lawrence.

Me?

They gave me a more flowery sounding name…”ibn el Sharmoota.” Sounded nothing like my given name, but no matter where I traveled in the Middle East, somebody was there waiting to personally by name greet me…often.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 8:36 PM

Looks like someone agrees with me. Capitalism is the cure here.

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/07/05/what-the-arab-world-needs-most-isnt-democracy-its-capitalism/

PattyJ on July 5, 2013 at 11:41 PM

Looks to me like the Egyptian military was between a rock and a hard place (though one of those might not be so hard given the US pattern of conducting foreign policy). They could respect the elections, watch the country deteriorate, and be called out to break skulls of the people protesting the deterioration OR they could do something they can do — topple the government — and try to salvage something workable from all the wreckage. A situation where the choices were all bad, one way or another. The outcome, some time in the future, will pass judgement on whether it was the best of bad choices.

Given the way US Foreign policy has been conducted over the past several years, if the military were to put together something that seems to work reasonably well despite the problems that the Muslim Brotherhood will pose, I suspect that it would be called a “good” end through bad means. That might figure into the decision to go or no go.

Although there is no “do over”, I think it would be ironic if, in an alternate world, the military chose to sit tight, have the situation dissolve into wholesale civil war and slaughter, then to listen to Congress complain that the military stood by while, maybe many tens of thousands died. Conveniently forgetting the Cut off funding if there is a coup provision.

Russ808 on July 6, 2013 at 12:13 AM

What were we buying with aid before the revolution?

You were buying all Arab petrol being sold in US Dollars only, Suez being and stable, exclusion of Soviet Russian influence in the region, and non-proliferation of nuclear weapons by Arab states, in exchange for 1) a paralyzing status-quo peace with Israel, 2) a nuclear umbrella for Arab states, and 3) US support for dictatorships willing to play ball.

The US-Arab alliance has been strong since WW2 (and is downplayed), where as the US-Israel alliance is a horrible joke (and is played-up out of proportion) ever since Israel became a “long-term” problem when it attained nuclear weapon capabilities (US policy changed after the ’73 war).

Nobody understands US policy. The US will keep aid to whoever rules Egypt so long as they follow the treaty with Israel, which keeps Suez stable, Israel paralyzed, and thus signals the other Arab states that the deal is still on and that they can keep selling their petrol in USD.

ebrawer on July 6, 2013 at 1:56 AM