Prosecution witness in Zimmerman trial testifies Martin on top in fight

posted at 1:21 pm on June 28, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Lots of buzz erupted on Twitter about the testimony of prosecution witness Jonathan Good in the murder trial of George Zimmerman, and it’s not difficult to understand why.  Good, who witnessed the fight but apparently not the fatal gunshot that killed Trayvon Martin, not only contradicted the prosecution’s previous witness, but bolstered Zimmerman’s self-defense argument, even in direct examination (video via Jim Hoft):

A man who said he witnessed George Zimmerman’s shooting of Trayvon Martin told a court today that what he saw indicated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman moments before Zimmerman shot and killed Martin.

The testimony of John Good contradicted that of a neighbor who told the Florida court Thursday Zimmerman was on top of Martin in those critical seconds before the fatal shot was fired. …

“Could you describe who was on top and who was at bottom,” asked prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.

“The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was…red,” responded Good referring to the men’s clothing.

At another point he told the court that the person on the bottom had “lighter skin color.”

Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red and black jacket that night. Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt.

He also said, “The person on the bottom, I could hear a ‘Help.’”

Under cross examination by Zimmerman’s lawyer, Good said he believes he saw Martin on top punching Zimmerman “MMA style,” a reference to mixed martial arts.

Some people on Twitter wondered why the prosecution called Good at all, given the damage it does to the case they want to make of second-degree murder.  Generally speaking, the prosecution has an obligation to address all of the evidence in a case, not just the pieces they like best. Practically speaking, the prosecution knew that the defense would call Good to the stand if they did not, so the best strategy would be to take the surprise out of the testimony, and hope that a direct examination could possibly put this in a better context.  After all, they had another eyewitness testify that the positions were reversed, and the prosecution might hope that the jury would find that witness more credible than Good — although that looks like a long shot, given Good’s performance on the stand so far.  Bear in mind that the prosecution has not yet rested, and may have more witnesses that will incorporate Good’s testimony into the overall theory of their case.  It’s usually a mistake to take too much out of context in trial testimony while the case is still unfolding.

Still, this makes the question of the charges even more acute. The state could have charged Zimmerman with manslaughter and argued that he used deadly force without just cause, rather than go with a second-degree murder charge that requires some act of malice or “depraved mind.”  If Good convinces the jury that Zimmerman was receiving an “MMA-style beating” when he pulled the pistol and fired, then the only verdict left is acquittal of second-degree murder.  Even the conflicting witness testimony could be enough to produce a reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors.

This has the appearance of over-charging by the prosecution, and that raises its own questions about motives involved in making that decision.

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Anti-Control on June 28, 2013 at 8:57 PM

I think LadySmith’s point is the word “hopeless”. It is generally cynical to proclaim even Trayvon Martin was “hopeless”. He turned out to be hopeless, because he took actions that ensured he would never get the chance to right his life. But, lots of “hopeless” lowlifes have become productive members of society given enough time to mature.

I’ll back the idea that there’s lots of lowlifes out there, and many of them will turn out to be hopeless. Let’s remember, though, that none of us are all we should be, and we should humbly recall that, but for the grace of God, there go we.

GWB on June 28, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Latest analysis from LI.

Del Dolemonte on June 28, 2013 at 9:31 PM

“Black kids are killed by other black kids every day. All those victims are every bit as dead as Trayvon Martin. But those killers don’t have white faces so the media doesn’t give a flying fig. Besides, they’re too busy covering more important stories, like a white woman with a cooking show who said the ‘N word’ decades ago. And the trial of George Zimmerman…
Whatever happens, reasonable people hope the truth will emerge and justice will prevail. But many on Twitter aren’t quite as reasonable. They’re threatening to ‘kill that cracka’ if the ‘white Hispanic’ is set free. Liberals told us that electing Barack Obama would improve race relations in America. Wrong again. The Obama-loving media needs to do less race-baiting and more truth-telling!”

– Paula Priesse

itsnotaboutme on June 28, 2013 at 9:36 PM

I think LadySmith’s point is the word “hopeless”.

She will end up telling me her thoughts directly, I think (and hope!)

It is generally cynical to proclaim even Trayvon Martin was “hopeless”. He turned out to be hopeless, because he took actions that ensured he would never get the chance to right his life.

Going by what you just said, I don’t agree that proclaiming Trayvon to be ‘a hopeless case’ is a sign of cynicism – because of this, I find that your statement was generally useless, no offense intended.

But, lots of “hopeless” lowlifes have become productive members of society given enough time to mature.

I’ll back the idea that there’s lots of lowlifes out there, and many of them will turn out to be hopeless. Let’s remember, though, that none of us are all we should be, and we should humbly recall that, but for the grace of God, there go we.

GWB on June 28, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Trayvon failed when he had the chance to do differently – I myself will leave the lamenting & hand-wringing over his failure to others! :)

Anti-Control on June 28, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Zimmerman incompetence most likely led to tragedy.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 6:10 PM

Hey Slic. FO.

CW on June 28, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Trayvon failed when he had the chance to do differently – I myself will leave the lamenting & hand-wringing over his failure to others! :)

Anti-Control on June 28, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Tough guy acts tough and gets shot. Happens all the time in the inner city. But we never hear about it when it’s black-on-black violence.

gryphon202 on June 28, 2013 at 10:06 PM

You would think certain people would be more sensitive about the modern day lynching being carried out in front of them.

Count to 10 on June 28, 2013 at 10:36 PM

You would think certain people would be more sensitive about the modern day lynching being carried out in front of them.

Count to 10 on June 28, 2013 at 10:36 PM

Silly racist! You can’t lynch a white man cracker!

/libwit

gryphon202 on June 28, 2013 at 11:34 PM

I think LadySmith’s point is the word “hopeless”. It is generally cynical to proclaim even Trayvon Martin was “hopeless”. He turned out to be hopeless, because he took actions that ensured he would never get the chance to right his life. But, lots of “hopeless” lowlifes have become productive members of society given enough time to mature.

I’ll back the idea that there’s lots of lowlifes out there, and many of them will turn out to be hopeless. Let’s remember, though, that none of us are all we should be, and we should humbly recall that, but for the grace of God, there go we.

GWB on June 28, 2013 at 9:29 PM

Thank you, GWB. That’s very much what I meant. Where there’s life, there’s hope, which is why I related the story of my brother.

A few years back, I watched a piece on former Mass. Sen. Scott Brown on 60 Minutes. The shocking, nightmarish tale of his youth could have been told in places from a lean-to in the Appalachians to the West Side of Chicago (single mother/welfare/molestation/violent men in the home/6 stepparents/shuttled around to live with different relatives/multiple juvenile arrests).

But the gift Mr. Brown was given was life. And time. And a sympathetic Judge who wouldn’t let him give up on himself.

Almost everyone is capable of change, as long as there is breath in their body. I’m not religious, but the best way to put it is that as we outgrow our unwise, ill-fitting childish skin, we long to slip into the adult clothing that shows the world our growth and redemption.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on June 28, 2013 at 11:40 PM

Almost everyone is capable of change, as long as there is breath in their body. I’m not religious, but the best way to put it is that as we outgrow our unwise, ill-fitting childish skin, we long to slip into the adult clothing that shows the world our growth and redemption.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on June 28, 2013 at 11:40 PM

I think the blame for Trayvon Martin never having gotten that chance squarely lies on his own shoulders, and those of his family.

/ProudCynic

gryphon202 on June 28, 2013 at 11:49 PM

You would think certain people would be more sensitive about the modern day lynching being carried out in front of them.

Count to 10 on June 28, 2013 at 10:36 PM

Your statement is wrong. Zimmerman is getting a trial by his peers and most likely will be acquitted. The exact opposite of what lynching victims experience.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:52 PM

The prosecution never thought it could win this case, they are going through the motions. They were blackmailed via the press into this trial. Kudos to them for picking a charge they couldn’t prove.

goflyers on June 28, 2013 at 11:56 PM

I think the blame for Trayvon Martin never having gotten that chance squarely lies on his own shoulders, and those of his family.

/ProudCynic

gryphon202 on June 28, 2013 at 11:49 PM

And Zimmerman, whose irresponsible actions contributed to Martin’s death. Martin was wrong to assault Zimmerman, but if Zimmerman would have just let the police handle Martin all of this tragedy could of been avoided.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:56 PM

Zimmerman, whose irresponsible actions contributed to Martin’s death.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:56 PM

In other words, the trial is over now. Why let it go on?

Del Dolemonte on June 28, 2013 at 11:59 PM

Zimmerman is getting a trial by a jury with no blacks on it, and most likely will be acquitted. The exact opposite of what lynching victims experience.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:52 PM

Fixed.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 12:01 AM

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:52 PM

PS: the fact that the Court could not seat a single black jury member speaks volumes about the race-baiting Democrat Media tainting of the jury pool.

Discuss.

(Starts Sundial #409)

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 12:04 AM

And Zimmerman, whose irresponsible actions contributed to Martin’s death. Martin was wrong to assault Zimmerman, but if Zimmerman would have just let the police handle Martin all of this tragedy could of been avoided.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:56 PM

Sir,that’s retarded.

Seriously azzhole. Here’s the important part.

Martin was wrong to assault Zimmerman.

He was more than wrong. HIS actions led to his death.

Zimmerman was already on the way back to his car..when Lil babyfaced trayvon decided to bash zimmermans head into the sidewalk,

HumpBot Salvation on June 29, 2013 at 12:12 AM

And Zimmerman, whose irresponsible actions contributed to Martin’s death. Martin was wrong to assault Zimmerman, but if Zimmerman would have just let the police handle Martin all of this tragedy could of been avoided.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:56 PM

One more time: Zimmerman called the police. Martin chased Zimmerman. Martin beat Zimmerman. There is evidence that Martin used Drank, and smoked weed THAT VERY NIGHT. Zimmerman doesn’t have to prove shit. Any questions?

gryphon202 on June 29, 2013 at 12:15 AM

Or maybe Ric is right. Maybe Zimmerman contributed to Trayvon Martin’s death by being a victim of assault by Trayvon Martin.

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Or not.

gryphon202 on June 29, 2013 at 12:18 AM

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:52 PM

PS: the fact that the Court could not seat a single black jury member speaks volumes about the race-baiting Democrat Media tainting of the jury pool.

Discuss.

(Starts Sundial #409)

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 12:04 AM

PS. A disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, but have testified numerous times as an expert witness and also served on countless juries.

Our Leftist friends complaining about the racial makeup of this particular jury conveniently ignore that both sides have to sign off on the jurors.

For our Low-IQ Democrats here, that means that the prosecution had no problem with a jury with no blacks on it.

HTH

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 1:01 AM

What is it with “Ricks?”

/Plinkett, Red Letter Media, Phantom Menace Review

Christien on June 29, 2013 at 1:07 AM

Zimmerman is getting a trial by a jury with no blacks on it, and most likely will be acquitted. The exact opposite of what lynching victims experience.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:52 PM
Fixed.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 12:01 AM

This is just bizarre Delemonte. Are you inferring that blacks are incapable of impartially judging a trial. Because if you are, I’m inferring that you are a racist.

Ric on June 29, 2013 at 2:15 AM

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 12:01 AM

This is just bizarre Delemonte. Are you inferring that blacks are incapable of impartially judging a trial. Because if you are, I’m inferring that you are a racist.

Ric on June 29, 2013 at 2:15 AM

Whatever makes you sleep at night, nonpartisan/lester.

No, Kid, all I said was that neither side of the case could seat a black juror.

Please tell us why they couldn’t do so. And please tell us why both sides had no problem with not having a black jury member.

(Starts Stonehenge Circle #1)

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 2:21 AM

So are you inferring that blacks are so weak minded that they are incapable of critically and impartially judging a trial because of media influence? Because if you are then that’s racists.

Ric on June 29, 2013 at 2:26 AM

re you inferring that blacks are incapable of impartially judging a trial. Because if you are, I’m inferring that you are a racist.

Ric on June 29, 2013 at 2:15 AM

So are you inferring

So are you inferring

No, dunderhead. A writer or speaker implies some unspecified assertion.

It is up to a reader or listener to infer the unspecified assertion.

So Dolemonte is implying that the media and noisemakers in the black community have sufficiently prejudiced (legally, not emotionally) the black members of the jury pool to the point where even the prosecution cannot rely on their impartiality according to the law, so that any convictions obtained would be unimpeachable upon review.

If you want to infer that Dolemonte said that blacks were incapable of impartiality, that’s your dumb conclusion. Not his.

rwenger43 on June 29, 2013 at 2:52 AM

I wish the noisemakers in the minority community would someday realize–I think they already do, but their egos don’t let them care–that the tools they use to garner public sympathy and attention frequently work to disqualify their arguments. Just as is possible in this case, if a case cannot be won on its own merits, the very act of helping it along disqualifies it.

Just like when a third-base coach touches a baserunner while the baseball is in play, the runner is automatically out–regardless of whether he would have been safe at the base or not. If he would have been safe, the stupid coach should not have touched him. And the fans and third base coaches alike need to become good enough students of the game that they learn not to coerce their coach into aiding the runner.

But the black community—no matter how educated–never turns on its incompetent third-base coaches, does it? It keeps honoring the Sharptons, Jacksons and Wrights of the world for their good intentions and actually honors them for disregarding the rules of impartial justice.

rwenger43 on June 29, 2013 at 3:05 AM

one thing thats always bugged me about this is the fact that it happened due to TM’s parents FAILING him.
who knows what he would have been like if he had parents worth a damn.
but no, they shirk their job and he turns aggressive. and it cost everyone.

dmacleo on June 29, 2013 at 5:49 AM

One more time: Zimmerman called the police. Martin chased Zimmerman. Martin beat Zimmerman. There is evidence that Martin used Drank, and smoked weed THAT VERY NIGHT. Zimmerman doesn’t have to prove shit. Any questions?

gryphon202 on June 29, 2013 at 12:15 AM

I thought the tox report showed the THC level was too low to have been ingested that day. Did I miss something?

dmacleo on June 29, 2013 at 5:51 AM

I thought the tox report showed the THC level was too low to have been ingested that day. Did I miss something?

dmacleo on June 29, 2013 at 5:51 AM

The evidence was not damning, but it came from the security camera at the C Store Martin was at just before his death. He attempted to purchase blunt cigars in addition to the skittles and iced tea he had on him at the time of his death. His purchase was declined, but two of his older friends made a straw purchase for him.

gryphon202 on June 29, 2013 at 7:57 AM

one thing thats always bugged me about this is the fact that it happened due to TM’s parents FAILING him.
who knows what he would have been like if he had parents worth a damn.
but no, they shirk their job and he turns aggressive. and it cost everyone.

dmacleo on June 29, 2013 at 5:49 AM

And now the mother who barely had anything to do with him for the last two years of his life is looking to cash in on her meal ticket.

/VOMIT

gryphon202 on June 29, 2013 at 8:06 AM

And Zimmerman, whose irresponsible actions contributed to Martin’s death.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:56 PM

Again, and again, you go back to this tired mantra – GZ did nothing irresponsible that contributed to TM’s death. Period. You can keep it up if you like, but you’re starting to sound deranged.

GWB on June 29, 2013 at 8:16 AM

I didn’t read Del’s post at 2:21, which means he’s a racists.

Ric on June 29, 2013 at 2:26 AM

Edited for Accuracy, nonpartisan/lester.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM

So Dolemonte is implying that the media and noisemakers in the black community have sufficiently prejudiced (legally, not emotionally) the black members of the jury pool to the point where even the prosecution cannot rely on their impartiality according to the law, so that any convictions obtained would be unimpeachable upon review.

If you want to infer that Dolemonte said that blacks were incapable of impartiality, that’s your dumb conclusion. Not his.

rwenger43 on June 29, 2013 at 2:52 AM

ric/nonpartisan/lester is a perfect illustration of why the Democrat Party lost the college graduate vote in 2012, while increasing their share of the high school dropout vote to 80%.

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM

From the Far-Right web page, Talk Left:

Lawyers for the Martin family now say the case is not about racial profiling or race.

“An attorney for Martin’s family, meanwhile, suddenly declared Thursday that the high-profile case was not about race.

“It’s not about racial profiling,” Daryl Parks told reporters. “He was profiled (criminally). George Zimmerman profiled him.”

….Asked why he changed his take on the matter, Parks replied: “We never claimed this was about race.”

Really? Then why did Benjamin Crump say race was “the elephant in the room.” Racial injustice was the core of their argument. It was always about race to them. Race was what they used to transform this local shooting into a case of national importance.

Q. Many people see this as a story about race. Is it?

Crump: “It shouldn’t be about race. But race is the elephant in the room. Nobody believes that if you make Trayvon Martin white [and the Neighborhood Watch volunteer black], there’s no way he would not be arrested, and that’s the unfortunate and tragic truth of the matter. There is a double standard. That’s why race is involved in this case.”

It is the state, not Team Crump, that has alleged since the beginning that Zimmerman profiled Martin as a criminal (not that he racially profiled Martin. )It’s good that Team Crump is now acknowledging the difference, but it is laughable to claim their new position isn’t backtracking.

But hey, according to ric/nonpartisan/lester, I’m the one who is a racists

h/t to Professor Althouse…

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2013/06/now-playing-in-theater-of-racial.html

Del Dolemonte on June 29, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Ok, I admit I’m not up to speed on hip-hop culture (note even sure if that’s the correct term)but what is “Drank”? I’ve seen it referenced a few times in this thread. I’m assuming it’s some sort of alcoholic beverage. Anybody?

Oldnuke on June 29, 2013 at 10:44 AM

Never mind about the “Drank”. I scrounged up enough interest to look it up myself (wonderful thing that internet). Man you’d have to be weapons grade stupid to use something like that.

Oldnuke on June 29, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Never mind about the “Drank”. I scrounged up enough interest to look it up myself (wonderful thing that internet). Man you’d have to be weapons grade stupid to use something like that.

Oldnuke on June 29, 2013 at 10:57 AM

And Trayvon Martin WAS weapons-grade stupid by that very standard. All the same, you wouldn’t believe how pervasive that stuff is in the deep south, especially from Texas to Florida.

gryphon202 on June 29, 2013 at 11:04 AM

The evidence seems to be going in the wrong direction, because the finding was supposed to be that Zimmerman is at fault, in order to avoid a race-riot. The best the prosecutors can hope for is a mis-trial. They would have been better off transferring the case elsewhere since they are so concerned about local politics, rather than the facts of the case.

virgo on June 29, 2013 at 11:14 AM

“raises questions…motives”

How about racial politics.

astrocanis on June 29, 2013 at 11:15 AM

The evidence seems to be going in the wrong direction,

virgo on June 29, 2013 at 11:14 AM

No, the evidence is pointing just where it should. There is no evidence to indicate that the events of that night happened in any way other than the way Zimmerman related them. Never have been. That’s why he wasn’t arrested that night. I don’t really know why he’s even on trial. It may be as you suggest that it was to somehow avoid or deflect riots. If that’s the case all they’ve done is to keep it in the spotlight and allow it to fester probably making the possibility of rioting a certainty. I tend to believe it’s a political thing with some overeager DA wanting a high profile case to make a name for him/her self. In any case what should have been a local incident has been transformed into national travesty.

Oldnuke on June 29, 2013 at 11:33 AM

Your statement is wrong. Zimmerman is getting a trial by his peers and most likely will be acquitted. The exact opposite of what lynching victims experience.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:52 PM

The verdict isn’t the lynching, the public conviction and legal harassment are. A group of the public, aided and abetted by media, have done harm to Zimmerman, calling for his death.

Count to 10 on June 29, 2013 at 1:46 PM

I have a big problem with so called “profiling” Lets say a 4 foot man goes into a store holds it up with a gun and runs into the night. Are we supposed to say he was male and that only? How does this help society? Do we stop all men that look like men. Lets take it further lets say the man was also black, now how do we dispatch a discription. Some how political correctness sticks its nose into common sense and we are the losers.

jainphx on June 29, 2013 at 8:52 PM

but if Zimmerman would have just let the police handle Martin all of this tragedy could of been avoided.

Ric on June 28, 2013 at 11:56 PM

So any local attempt at crime deterrence is wrong? He was Neighborhood Crime Watch, trying to watch someone suspicious in an area with crime issues… we should disband all of those and leave that all to the police?

If you see a crime, do nothing say nothing and hope the police catch them?

When seconds count, the police are minutes away… and you hope your friends and neighbors do nothing to help you should you need help?

If that’s your opinion, I hope you’re correct… which you might understand is about as strong a wish for misfortune to you that I’ll risk here.

gekkobear on June 30, 2013 at 3:02 AM

The prosecutor cannot deny this. Martin physically attacked Zimmerman, initiating the event. Everyone knew this which is why no one charged Zimmerman in the first place.

dogsoldier on June 28, 2013 at 7:12 PM

Really? How did everyone know this other than the testimony of the only living participant?

DarkCurrent on June 30, 2013 at 5:51 AM

Really? How did everyone know this other than the testimony of the only living participant?

DarkCurrent on June 30, 2013 at 5:51 AM

By examining a thing we like to call “evidence” and doing this thing we call “reasoning”. The timing of the phone calls, the location of the actual altercation, the fact that TM had absolutely no evidence of damage to him other than the gunshot wound – these things corroborate GZ’s story and lead many rational people to believe that he did not follow TM beyond what he admitted to nor did he initiate the conflict.

(I would caution against the phrase dogsoldier used – initiating the event – as it too easily leads to arguments like Ric’s.)

GWB on June 30, 2013 at 12:01 PM

GWB on June 30, 2013 at 12:01 PM

We don’t know that Martin initiated physical contact. Perhaps Zimmerman laid hands on Martin to attempt to detain him and Martin reacted violently. Why didn’t Zimmerman stay in his vehicle? We can only speculate.

That said, I don’t think there’s enough evidence for Zimmerman to have been brought to trial, certainly not on a charge of 2nd degree murder.

DarkCurrent on June 30, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Liberals told us that electing Barack Obama would improve race relations in America. Wrong again.

itsnotaboutme on June 28, 2013 at 9:36 PM

This is kind of a subtle point, maybe, but I think that when liberals talk about “improving race relations,” they mean that everyone should become angry at whites over supposed past injustices. Increased anger and hatred, in their minds, is considered progress. By this standard, one might argue that race relations have improved.

Burke on June 30, 2013 at 1:17 PM

We don’t know that Martin initiated physical contact. Perhaps Zimmerman laid hands on Martin to attempt to detain him and Martin reacted violently. Why didn’t Zimmerman stay in his vehicle? We can only speculate.

That said, I don’t think there’s enough evidence for Zimmerman to have been brought to trial, certainly not on a charge of 2nd degree murder.

DarkCurrent on June 30, 2013 at 12:15 PM

It’s not as though it matters at this point, DC. The “Trayvon Martin isn’t on trial here crowd” conveniently leaves out the fact that George Zimmerman is on trial, and thusly does not have to prove his innocence. He only has to plant a reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror. And I hope to God he can.

gryphon202 on June 30, 2013 at 3:03 PM

This is just bizarre Delemonte. Are you inferring that blacks are incapable of impartially judging a trial. Because if you are, I’m inferring that you are a racist.

Ric on June 29, 2013 at 2:15 AM

And we all infer that you are not bright, probably stupid and have your mind made up based on the leftist media propaganda that you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

Inferences are just hell, aren’t they?

Solaratov on June 30, 2013 at 4:39 PM

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