Poll: Near-majority of Republicans say they’re less likely to vote for incumbents who support path to citizenship

posted at 11:21 am on June 25, 2013 by Allahpundit

This’ll help concentrate the minds of House Republicans as they get down to business on immigration reform. Should we be worried, though, that the drumbeat of emphasis on the “path to citizenship,” i.e. the second stage of legalization, is leading Republican voters to ignore the more important first stage, i.e. initial probationary legalization? I was a little alarmed when some righties claimed that Rubio was telling English-language and Spanish-language audiences different things when he said on Univision a few weeks ago that legalization would come before border security. Er, he’s been saying that since day one; the initial probationary legalization has always, always, always been slated to come first in the Gang of Eight bill and Rubio has never claimed otherwise. It’s the second stage, in which illegals would get to apply for green cards, that comes after the border is tightened. But who cares about the second stage if they’ve already been granted some legal status? They’ll end up on the path to citizenship sooner or later through political pressure, no matter what’s happening on the border. That’s what makes the Gang’s bill unacceptable. No meaningful triggers. Don’t take your eye off of that ball or else the House might try to slip probationary legalization through too.

But I digress. Let’s not look a gift horse of good news in the mouth:

nj

Among whites generally, education levels are a divide. Forty-five percent of those without a college degree, who have the most to lose from a new supply of low-skilled labor, say they’re less likely to vote for someone who backs a path to citizenship versus just 15 percent who say they’d be more likely. For whites with a degree, the split is nearly even: 30 percent say more likely, 33 percent say less. Who’s going to break it to blue-collar opponents of the bill that, between more visas for guest workers and probationary legalization for the ones who are already here, the path to citizenship won’t affect whether they end up facing lots more competition for jobs?

Another tidbit, just to make sure Republicans in purple districts are thinking hard about this too:

Independents side with Republicans on the question, although with less fervency. Thirty-five percent of them said they will be less likely to back a lawmaker who supports comprehensive immigration reform, while only 19 percent said it would make them more likely to support the incumbent. Still, a plurality, 44 percent, said the issue won’t weigh on their decision during next year’s midterms.

The relative lack of interest from Democrats, combined with the GOP-leaning position among independents, creates further disincentive for Republicans, who are unlikely to find much general-election reward for their vote if they survive a primary.

Raul Labrador said months ago that the House won’t vote for a path to citizenship for illegals, but all he meant by that, I think, was that they won’t create a new (“special”) path by statute as part of immigration reform. Illegals won’t be barred from eventually seeking green cards and citizenship through currently existing channels. Whether in practice that amounts to something better or worse than the path created by the Gang’s bill remains to be seen, but there’s no option on the table here realistically by which illegals will be barred forever from becoming citizens. That will start Democrats screaming about “second-class citizenship” for America’s newly legalized immigrant underclass, and the GOP will wilt. Illegals have to get some path. It’s just a matter of how, and when.

Big question: Is the NJ poll a sign that Republican attitudes against amnesty are hardening as people have started paying more attention to the Gang of Eight? I can’t find anything in this data round-up from February that’s directly on point, but the anger among grassroots righties and conservative media is obviously higher lately, which is bound to move the numbers a bit. Interesting to see Paul Ryan, who’s famously pro-reform, telling CBS this morning that while passage of the Gang’s bill in the Senate increases the chances of action in the House, the House won’t bring the Gang’s bill over. They’re going to follow their own “more methodical” process and “make sure we secure the border.” You trust him, don’t you?


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I’ve been registered Republican since 1971. The last two national elections I’ve really had to hold my nose, but still voted Republican.

No more.

My family has donated money, phone-banked, walked precincts, put out a lot of effort in the past.

I’m done with Republicans and will not likely ever vote Republican again. Not unless the candidate is clearly a stellar example of a true American who believes in our Constitutional government, and is clearly NOT an establishment insider.

bigbeachbird on June 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM

That’s what makes the Gang’s bill unacceptable. No meaningful triggers.

How about the fact that there is no guaranteed border security or schedule, or milestones, or metrics, or testing in either the bill or the amendment?

In fact they admit the border will never be secure, and Incompetano can do whatever she wants.

Good grief.

dogsoldier on June 25, 2013 at 12:43 PM

ScottiesRule on June 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM

NO.

We do not HAVE to offer crap. In offering ANYTHING with this monstrosity of a crap sandwich Senate bill if we lose reconciliation we lose the Republic.

Yes we should have a path to normalcy and yes we should be prosecuting and deporting illegals who break our other laws…

the democrat cities are willfully encouraging crime to alter this nation like the labour party did the UK….and if this passes I will begin to agree with Scotland on what the answer is.

harlekwin15 on June 25, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Wait until they find out about the ObamaCars for legalised yewths so that they can drive to jobs that our betters claim ‘Americans just won’t do.’

What I can’t understand is why the GOP isn’t screaming at the top of their lungs that this amnesty bill will hurt African-Americans more than anyone. The Democrats have, evidently, thrown blacks under the bus for the shiny, new special interest group. Republicans could appeal to them. Even many liberal black leaders are opposed to this atrocity and the US Civil Rights Commission, the CBO, and others have said that blacks will be deeply harmed.

Resist We Much on June 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Thomas Sowell & Walter Williams have been saying this for years.

Note how well they’ve been treated by the likes of slavenowandie.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 12:45 PM

And, then there’s the whole increase in unemployment and depression of wages, which has been admitted by the CBO, and the unions have sold out their members…

On Thursday, the AFL-CIO is expected to announce further details of its campaign to support immigration reform. On Monday, Culinary Union Local 226 will stage an event at Cashman Field in which it will lay out local and national union efforts to bolster support for immigration reform.

A week after his speech, Obama met in Washington, D.C., with top union leaders including Trumka, Eliseo Medina of the Service Employees International Union, and Arturo Rodriguez of United Farm Workers. While the unions are publicly supporting the push for reform, the details of the final legislation will play a large role in final approval from labor organizations.

In 2007, as George W. Bush pushed an immigration reform proposal, the AFL-CIO and SEIU split, with the former siding against the program due to concerns that a touted guest-worker program would undercut unions and that the path to citizenship for existing undocumented immigrants was too difficult.

In 2009, the AFL-CIO and SEIU came together with other groups to announce a common set of principles for approaching immigration reform. The proposal specifically advocates for “improvement, not expansion, of temporary worker programs” and an “adjustment in status for the current undocumented population.”

Until the start of the millennium, the AFL-CIO openly opposed immigrants living and working in the country illegally. In 2000, the group’s executive council voted to endorse a new policy including a path to citizenship.

The shift occurred for a variety of reasons, labor analysts say, and is reflective of changing union membership levels and demographics. Figures from the Department of Labor released in January show union membership has fallen to its lowest point since the 1930s. Nationally, union membership fell by 400,000 from 2012 to 2013 and now stands at 14.4 million workers.

“We are going to do a whole national campaign for comprehensive immigration reform, because the current system is what depresses wages,” Trumka said. “They can’t cheat people out of wages, and they can’t pay them half the wages. When they try to assert any of their rights (the employers) call in ICE, and they get deported. The new system will allow them to have the same rights as every other worker, and be paid properly. They’ll come out of the shadows and have full rights like other workers, and it will be good for America and good for our economy.”

Why isn’t anyone telling union members? Why isn’t anyone telling primarily unskilled, low-paid American workers that they are going to suffer? Why isn’t anyone preaching the fact that the amnesty bill does not require legalised criminaliens nor their employers to abide by Obamacare?

Who do you think employers are going to hire: The unskilled African-American citizen, who must be covered under Obamacare, or the unskilled, legalised criminaliens, who don’t?

Resist We Much on June 25, 2013 at 12:49 PM

I think the 2014 elections will be the crookedest, most cheated on election in history of the country. They have been sliding that way for quite awhile and nobody but a few grass roots true the vote pushing back……not enough to make a diff in the districts that are important.

retiredeagle on June 25, 2013 at 12:49 PM

Thomas Sowell & Walter Williams have been saying this for years.

Note how well they’ve been treated by the likes of slavenowandie.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 12:45 PM

Indeed. ‘Uncle Tom sellouts.’

Resist We Much on June 25, 2013 at 12:50 PM

David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog 12h

Lesson: the only time Democrats and Republicans work together, it’s against you.

davidk on June 25, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Thomas Sowell & Walter Williams have been saying this for years.

Note how well they’ve been treated by the likes of slavenowandie.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 12:45 PM

Indeed. ‘Uncle Tom sellouts.’

Resist We Much on June 25, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Political Math ‏@politicalmath 1h

Oh, Clarence Thomas. I haven’t seen this many white Dems publically threaten a black man since 1965.
Retweeted by David Burge

David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog 1h

Black people in this country still face virulent hatred from ignorant white racists. Just listen to MSNBC talk about Clarence Thomas.

davidk on June 25, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Not only are the “haves” increasing their share of American income, they are going to increase their share of the American electorate. Yay “free market” capitalism.

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

Wait, you think this amnesty bill = free market capitalism?

Methinks that you haven’t a clue as to what free market capitalism is. This amnesty crap is CRONY CAPITALISM, which is practised by both cancerous parties in DC.

The United States hasn’t had anything close to ‘free market’ capitalism since, at least, the creation of the Fed. You cannot have a free market if a central bank or government is artificially setting interest rates.

That vibration you feel is Lord Keynes spinning in his grave as a result of your economic ignorance.

Resist We Much on June 25, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Not only are the “haves” increasing their share of American income, they are going to increase their share of the American electorate. Yay “free market” capitalism.

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

So, you believe that MORE people becoming “haves” is a bad thing, liveasaslaveanddie?
Why is that?
Could it be because it’s so much easier to bribe the “have-nots” with freebies…as long as they vote ‘the right way’?

You really would like to see a two class system in America, wouldn’t you?
The “elite” directing and controlling the peasants.

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on June 25, 2013 at 12:58 PM

I guess the key phrases are “near-majority” and “less likely”. There needs to be an “actual majority” and “definitely” to make any difference.

KS Rex on June 25, 2013 at 12:58 PM

The House can craft and pass a Bill as tuff on the border as the want. When it goes into reconciliation, the Senate will throw out the House Bill, and pass The Dream Act. Your GOP Representitives can tell you “They only voted for a secure border”, to cover the asses. But they know the Senate will pass Amnesty and YOU will be non the wiser. Call your Reps and tell them you are on to them.
mariee on June 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM

This is a very important point. Bill Kristol was talking about it on Laura Ingraham today. (There is a link to the discussion on her site (its free). Kristol said if it goes to conference, the Senate will have the power, not the house. Make your Reps understand you’ll hold them accountable for how Boehner handles this (they did vote for him as leader, after all)

LilyBart on June 25, 2013 at 1:03 PM

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 12:45 PM

As I’ve said many times, I’m opposed to this bill precisely because it depresses wages generally and hurts black workers particularly. But little about your posts indicates that you command basic literacy skills, so it is unsurprising you didn’t know that.

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:05 PM

The best way to make sure this keeps happening is to stay home or vote third party.

The way out of this is to fix the GOP. A solid effort was made in 2008-2010.

frode on June 25, 2013 at 1:05 PM

I used to be upset about all of this…

… then I realized that we are currently looking at $202 trillion dollars of debt and unfunded liabilities.

Let them all in…

… I don’t want to be the only sucker stuck with the bill.

The Country is already gone…

Seven Percent Solution on June 25, 2013 at 1:07 PM

It doesn’t matter what they do, the wave is against the Republican’s. Say sayonara.

Mr. Arrogant on June 25, 2013 at 1:07 PM

Methinks there is now plenty of anger among (from what I’ve been reading in threads) Republicans to see a diffrence in 2014. Still I have a hunch some of that anger is false, and some will vote Republican anyway. If you do, remember – it’s your fault.

madmonkphotog on June 25, 2013 at 1:10 PM

I hope you’re listening, BORHNER!

You have SOLD OUT Conservatives, the TEA Party, & the GOP every time you have had a chance to stand up to Obama and defend Conservative values. You caved on every issue, like the time you gave in to Obama’s demand to raise the debt ceiling while Obama rejected nearly every spending cut demanded. You bragged how you had cut nearly a trillion in spending only to have us find out it was only about $500 Million, that most of the money you bragged about was Stimulus money Obama had not spent yet.

When you was named Speaker of the House you broke down into tears and weeped and sobbed about how great a day that day was FOR YOU! Never mind it marked a day the Liberal death grip on both the House & Senate was broken, liberating America form the tyrannical agenda & criminal fiscal policies we had suffered under. It was all about YOU! and it has continued to be about YOU ever since then!

You are one of many GUTLESS COWARDS who love to engage in POLITICAL THEATER but lack the ethics, integrity, & COURAGE to actually take action! Holder, for example, has already perpetrated at LEAST 4 Felony Counts of PERJURY for Congress, 3 of which resuted in Holder being Censured – the 1st Attorney General in US history to be Censured. He did not learn his lesson – He testified he never knew anything about the wire tapping only to have exposed he was the one who signed off on it. Once again Holder perpetrated ANOTHER FELONY CRIME OF PERJURY; yet, you nor any other Republican has moved to charge him with a crime, as any of us surely would have been!

Time to grow a pair, listen to the WILL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, & do what is right!I personally don’t think you have it in you, but I will stand with my fellow Americans to see what you actually do! Immigration is a MESS right now because you & the rest of our Federal politicians refuse to enforce the existing LAWS. Let’s see if you can F* it up even more now!

easyt65 on June 25, 2013 at 1:10 PM

The way out of this is to fix the GOP. A solid effort was made in 2008-2010.

frode on June 25, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Problem is they chose pathetic Boehner and intimidator to no-one McConnell as their leaders… then Boehner promptly burst into tears about how luck he was… and did nothing with the power and momentum he had been given.

viking01 on June 25, 2013 at 1:12 PM

I used to be upset about all of this…

… then I realized that we are currently looking at $202 trillion dollars of debt and unfunded liabilities.

Let them all in…

… I don’t want to be the only sucker stuck with the bill.

The Country is already gone…

Seven Percent Solution on June 25, 2013 at 1:07 PM

That’s nihilist…

we’re atop ~1.5 quadrillion that is 1,500,000,000,000,000 worth of coal/shale/ and CNG potential….

Over half that is trapped in Federal lands….

Giggles is bust trapping us from using that mineral wealth b/c “windmills, trampolines, solar, and Hopium warp drives!”

Maybe if people spent more time attacking his idiocy on the climate and demanded we stabilize the dollar by not spending a trillion in new debt per annum and we put America back to work we’d work our way out of this hole?

Nah let’s just wreck our way of life and import newer better Americans who will free up Democrats to REALLY get their Hugo Chavez on and nationalize energy production and distribution and declare they own ALL mineral wealth in the nation….

THAT’s a better idea….

if the GOP is so stupid, listless, and moronic they cannot attack Chicago Je$u$ on these points and the scandals we deserve everything we’re about to get and we may as well vote D and speed it up…

harlekwin15 on June 25, 2013 at 1:14 PM

I’ve been registered Republican since 1971. The last two national elections I’ve really had to hold my nose, but still voted Republican.

No more.

bigbeachbird on June 25, 2013

I am in the same exact position! (O.K. I haven’t been around as long as you:) Reagan was my first vote ever. It’s been downhill since. I am tired of rewarding them for continually slapping us in the face. I am not some purist who doesn’t realize I will disagree with a candidate from time to time, of course I will, heck I’d be happy with agreeing with them 75% of the time!. But these are MAJOR issues we’re talking about here. And at every turn we are taken for granted because they count on us saying, “well he’s better than the other guy”. No more I held my nose one too many times. If someone’s a RINO squish they can forget about my vote.

Minnfidel on June 25, 2013 at 1:15 PM

Even Ohio’s yellow-bellied Obama sycophant Sherrod Brown ducked out of voting for that deal, and he’s a Democrat.

RebeccaH on June 25, 2013 at 12:35 PM

.
Yeah Portman shocked me in voting no…

harlekwin15 on June 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Absolutely not. This was a no brainer for Ohio- should be for Michigan and all the other states bleeding jobs. Ohio blue collar Democrats do not want the additional burden immigrants will put on the system. Brown didn’t vote because he knows it won’t fly for Ohioans Dems still effed by Obama economic policies. But the good and decent dishonest Ohio Democrat doesn’t have a problem with this no vote hypocrisy either. (“Hey – he didn’t vote for it”)
.
This is the REAL FAILURE of a Speaker Boehner (OH) … unable to make the obvious strong case against a cram down Obamacare-style Immigration bill the will hit jobs hard for struggling Americans -and screw the country for years to come.
Boehner should make an example of “No-Vote” Brown- his state’s Senior statesman- and ram home why this bill should not pass. There should not be ONE vote from the state of OH in the house for this turd legislation. (Except the wackobird a lady from Cuyahoga County)
.
But Boehner won’t.

No Cajones, amigos.

FlaMurph on June 25, 2013 at 1:17 PM

As I’ve said many times, I’m opposed to this bill precisely because it depresses wages generally and hurts black workers particularly. But little about your posts indicates that you command basic literacy skills, so it is unsurprising you didn’t know that.

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Tetchy now that the jackbooted racist collectivism you’ve embraced all these years has now come back to bite you in the fundament? Cry us a river. Williams, Sowell and others were labeled as “oreos” for years by you and your leftist ilk because they made that exact point about the Dems.

It’s too bad that you didn’t pay attention to Senator Slumlord’s friends back in 2008, but you really weren’t interested in casting a “responsible vote,” were you?

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Roy Beck of NUSA has said they’re getting closer to 41 votes needed to stop it. Cruz said on a call last night that he thought there were 20 still on the fence and to keep calling. It makes a difference. There’s a new Leahy amendment they’ll be voting on but not sure what’s in it yet. There are 3 more votes and then the final vote. Wicker of MS has indicated he may flip to no so pretend you’re from Biloxi and call him. More later.

TxAnn56 on June 25, 2013 at 1:18 PM

Like many other life-long Republicans, I am tired of holding my nose and voting for whomever the GOP establishment tries to jam down my throat, while crapping on conservatives until the next election approaches.

The “audit” done after the election was nothing more than an attempt to exonerate Reince Priebus and the GOP establishment by trying to pin the blame on conservatives.

If the House GOP provides support to the Democrats in destroying our country through amnesty, there’s no reason to support the GOP any more. Rather than the lesser of two evils, it’s part of the same evil.

Susan Collins may get reelected because moose are smarter than people in Maine, but Lamarr Alexander and “Miss Lucy” make two great targets for conservatives.

bw222 on June 25, 2013 at 1:20 PM

And what % of Repub voters are less likely to vote for incumbents who support statehood for AK & HI?

(This train has left the station, folks.)

verbaluce on June 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

Like the Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act train that was just struck down and, as a result, guts Section 5? Like that train that left the station only a few years after Hawai’i and Alaska became states? That one?

That being said, both of the parties need to go the way of the bloody Whigs. Neither cares about average Americans. They only care about power and enabling their cronies to make more profits by importing cheap labour. This is the truth despite what both parties claim.

It’s the Elite Establishment/Dacha Class v everyone else…and, if you disagree with the former, you are a racist, sexist, Islamophobic, homophobic, xenophobic, nativist bigot.

I’ve been through this before with Labour, who actually intentionally set out to change the demographics of the UK by importing a new dependent electorate, and are now apologising profusely to those that would be their natural base because they’ve fvcked up the country.

BTW, they’ve also decreed that it is no longer racist to discuss immigration. HA! You bet they have. Because of them, a country with a population of 61 million will be open for business next year to upwards of 23 million poor Romanians and Bulgarians and will be immediately eligible for each and every benefit those that lived through the Blitz and defended the country. The already massive immigration has put an incredible strain on the welfare and benefits system, along with seriously rending the fabric of society. (Muslim youths can film themselves laughing at the memorial of Lee Rigby, who was decapitated in broad daylight, put it up on YouTube, and not face any repercussions, but an 85 year-old woman, who tells them to ‘go back to their own country!’ gets carted off to jail.)

The Truth At Last! Peter Mandelson Admits Labour ‘Sent Out Search Parties’ To Bring Migrants Here After Losing The Votes Of The Working Class

A Fair Warning To Those Promoting Open Borders, Amnesty, & Free Immigration

As Senator Eugene McCarthy (D-MN) said:

‘The United States cannot regain its competitive standing in the world by importing low wage workers from other countries. On the one hand, it engenders conditions this country cannot and should not tolerate. On the other hand, in the modern age, a nation’s wealth and prosperity is secured by high worker productivity and capital investment, not by the availability of low-wage labour.’

That was true then and it is true now.

Resist We Much on June 25, 2013 at 1:20 PM

P.s. Boss Emeritus also called yesterday’s vote a “test” vote. I’m guessing to see what the level of outrage would be.

TxAnn56 on June 25, 2013 at 1:21 PM

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Girl please. Wage depression in the U.S. is the result of:
1. Deindustrialization and Outsourcing beginning in the 70s
2. Union busting, 70s-90s
3. “Free Trade,” Globalization, NAFTA etc.
4. Immigration reform brings globalization home.

Which of these is the result of “collectivism.”

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:22 PM

Boehner is a disgrace!

@BreitbartNews: Boehner to Fundraise with Former Alaska GOP Chair Palin Confronted: House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) is set t… http://t.co/tuGjpJq0Tv

idesign on June 25, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Girl please. Wage depression in the U.S. is the result of:
1. Deindustrialization and Outsourcing beginning in the 70s
2. Union busting, 70s-90s
3. “Free Trade,” Globalization, NAFTA etc.
4. Immigration reform brings globalization home.

Which of these is the result of “collectivism.”

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:22 PM

1) is a resource of US regulatory fiat you marxists love and US inability to compete because of wage demands

2) see 1

3) inevitable hippie and on the whole preferable to never ending war

4) your caucus’ nail in the coffin to destroy the bill of rights.

Don’t worry though you’re about to get everything you ever wanted comrade…

Plan B Lib Frito Plan B…

if the GOP will not stop being Donks at 85% the price then by Jesus I will vote in real communards like you empowered.

See you in the funny papers

harlekwin15 on June 25, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Girl please. Wage depression in the U.S. is the result of:
1. Deindustrialization and Outsourcing beginning in the 70s
2. Union busting, 70s-90s
3. “Free Trade,” Globalization, NAFTA etc.
4. Immigration reform brings globalization home.

Which of these is the result of “collectivism.”

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:22 PM

The economic collapse of the African-American community predates those events, Sparky:

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/race-inequality-and-the-market#axzz2XFZFWjjF

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 1:28 PM

ScottiesRule on June 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Here’s another one…

Build a prison camp in the desert of Arizona to be run by sheriff Joe. Any illegal alien caught get one year in the prison camp. Build the camp on the border with a gate opening one way to the south in case they just decide to go home. Give them 30 days to get out.

cajunpatriot on June 25, 2013 at 1:30 PM

The Republicans are definitely the stupid party. The democrats and the liberal media got the GOP to believe that Hispanics would support them if only they would vote for amnesty. The idiot republicans who fell for this just destroyed their party and the middle class. I am no longer holding out hope that conservatives can take the party back. I am done with them. Count me among the unaffiliated.

fight like a girl on June 25, 2013 at 1:31 PM

It’s quite simple,
1) Secure the border & enact E-verify. (That is, do what you already have bills in place to do.)
2) When this is in place, come back and revisit the issue.

That is the real path to Immigration Reform.

African Americans should be screaming about this bill (see black unemployment rates) nothing but crickets……

Whiterock on June 25, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Absolutely! I have voted against incumbents for years unless the challenger is a dem. Love to primary these bastards.

ultracon on June 25, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Possible names for a new party? American Party…Founders Party…Independence Party…

fight like a girl on June 25, 2013 at 1:34 PM

1) is a resource of US regulatory fiat you marxists love and US inability to compete because of wage demands

2) see 1

3) inevitable hippie and on the whole preferable to never ending war

4) your caucus’ nail in the coffin to destroy the bill of rights.

Don’t worry though you’re about to get everything you ever wanted comrade…

Plan B Lib Frito Plan B…

if the GOP will not stop being Donks at 85% the price then by Jesus I will vote in real communards like you empowered.

See you in the funny papers

harlekwin15 on June 25, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Precisely, the collapse is directly correlated with government intervention in the market on collectivist grounds.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 1:35 PM

(they did vote for him as leader, after all)

LilyBart on June 25, 2013 at 1:03 PM

I called my congressman back in January telling him not to support Boehner. He sent me a letter a few weeks after that saying he felt like he needed to keep the party united, so he voted for Boehner. Unity is over rated sometimes.

ritewhit on June 25, 2013 at 1:36 PM

The economic collapse of the African-American community predates those events, Sparky:

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Did you even read the article you posted? The economic “collapse” of the black community also predates the Great Society programs that you so dislike. Indeed, the essay you cite actually proves that conservatives lie about the relationship between Great Society programs and black poverty rates. The last bit of the essay:

The black poverty rate in 1960 was 55 percent; today, fewer than one in four blacks are in poverty.

So before integration, before the VRA and before the Great Society black poverty rate was 55%. This shouldn’t surprise any student of history as rampant employment discrimination in the form of firms refusing to hire black people or keeping them stuck in low wage menial work if they hired them at all. Also we know that black people were systematically excluded from New Deal welfare programs like FHA loans which were the economic backbone of the white middle class when the war came to a close (look up HOLC maps and redlining). Your own article suggests that conservative analysis of the impact of expanding the welfare state to include African Americans has had a generationally positive impact on black poverty rates. So…thanks!

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM

The best way to make sure this keeps happening is to stay home or vote third party.

The way out of this is to fix the GOP. A solid effort was made in 2008-2010.

frode on June 25, 2013 at 1:05 PM

LOL, someone who still thinks voting matters. Well it doesn’t. What matters is who counts the votes and right now that’s computer systems controlled mostly by the left.

bgibbs1000 on June 25, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Read and propagate

Schadenfreude on June 25, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Did you even read the article you posted? The economic “collapse” of the black community

I put this in scare quotes because it hilariously assumes there was a point in U.S. history when black people commanded real economic power as a group. Ha!

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:41 PM

The slave of HA is still a bigot and a racist.

Schadenfreude on June 25, 2013 at 1:42 PM

You trust him, don’t you?

No.

Iblis on June 25, 2013 at 1:43 PM

Here’s a quote for Allah…

“I am not, and I will never support any effort to grant blanket legalization/amnesty to folks who have entered, stayed in this country illegally.” — Marco Rubio

cajunpatriot on June 25, 2013 at 1:44 PM

“You trust him, don’t you? Ryan is just a Rubio type lying wolf in sheep’s clothing without the personality.

oldroy on June 25, 2013 at 11:28 AM

bw222 on June 25, 2013 at 1:45 PM

I’ll vote GOP if it’s a good candidate. I’m not going to default to GOP anymore.

gophergirl on June 25, 2013 at 11:34 AM

Amen! But, not to worry. They will replace us with Hispanics. Hahahahahahahahahaha!

bw222 on June 25, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Republicans are in a death spiral of their own doing, produced both by their determined betrayals and unregenerate weaknesses.

This bill is the perfect example, a case study of fear, betrayal and nonfeasance.

They lose if they vote for it, and they lose if they don’t. But both fates were never beyond their control; it is their fear and lack of will to define their fate, to stand for something, which has sealed this very fate.

If they’d vigorously and concertedly fought the bill and exposed it for what it was from the beginning they could have reaped a reward that would have more than compensated for their beating if the bill fails. If they’d confronted the Left from the beginning on the sham of the bill and taken this case to the people, and proposed their own bill and pressured the democrats across the country to own up to their fraud and shamed THEM to come to the table, they wouldn’t be in this pickle.

But their fears have written a fate deserving of their fears. They may defeat this bill now, but once they do they will attempt to change the subject or slink away with their “victory” as the Left hounds and lashes them across the culture. Meanwhile, they’ll have completely lost the respect and support of even more conservatives. If they proudly embrace the defeat of the bill (really only an effective strategy if they’d already exhausted their efforts to do all of the above and openly fight the Left), they would be in fine shape. But they won’t. Instead they will look exactly like what they feared they would be made to look like.

And what will be the lessons learned from this humiliation? Ten to one, it will be “get on board with the Left sooner and go after the conservatives with more fury.”

rrpjr on June 25, 2013 at 1:49 PM

I called my congressman back in January telling him not to support Boehner. He sent me a letter a few weeks after that saying he felt like he needed to keep the party united, so he voted for Boehner. Unity is over rated sometimes.

ritewhit on June 25, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Yes, I asked my Congressman not to vote for Boehner too. He did anyway.

This is why I’m going to hold my congressman accountable for what Boehner does with immigration. Even if my guy votes not, but Boehner takes the bill to reconciliation, where most of the sentate structure is passed, then I’ll view it as if my congressman voted for this. And act accordingly.

LilyBart on June 25, 2013 at 1:53 PM

You trust him, don’t you?

No.

novaculus on June 25, 2013 at 1:55 PM

I just heard Rubio say “we now have a de facto Amnesty; we can’t leave things the way we are, that’s the real Amnesty.”

So since Amnesty is what the democratics and the Mexican reconquistadoras have wanted for decades, why don’t we just leave things the way they are? That makes them happy, and I’ll settle for the status quo.

Status quo = a h of a lot better than Schumer’s bill.

slickwillie2001 on June 25, 2013 at 2:00 PM

LilyBart on June 25, 2013 at 1:53 PM

Boehner will get this through. Bank on it. He’ll come up with some BS changes which won’t be changes at all just to get it to conference.

We’ve seen this kabuki too many times. The huffing and puffing about what isn’t acceptable or about how they’ll respect the majority, until crunch time when they cave because “we need to get something done. The people demand it.”

rrpjr on June 25, 2013 at 2:04 PM

So before integration, before the VRA and before the Great Society black poverty rate was 55%. This shouldn’t surprise any student of history as rampant employment discrimination in the form of firms refusing to hire black people or keeping them stuck in low wage menial work if they hired them at all. Also we know that black people were systematically excluded from New Deal welfare programs like FHA loans which were the economic backbone of the white middle class when the war came to a close (look up HOLC maps and redlining). Your own article suggests that conservative analysis of the impact of expanding the welfare state to include African Americans has had a generationally positive impact on black poverty rates. So…thanks!

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Actually, the thesis of the article is that such an explanation is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy on the part of “liberals,” but don’t let me stop your delusions.

You also still like ducking the subject of Obama’s known corrupt antecedents and the fact that government intervention has -caused- the problems that you decry and the current fiasco of legalizing criminal migrants is one that La Raza and the left have been advocating for years, while demagoging anyone who wants legal immigration with border enforcement as racist.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I would give the Dems straight up amnesty, green cards for everyone! if the border provisions were implemented and verified complete by the 4 border state Governors before the amnesty started.

Sinner on June 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Traitor Pow Wow coming.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/307525-obama-to-push-immigration-reform-in-meeting-with-congressional-leaders

Obama to meet with Congressional leaders on immigration reform

President Obama will meet Tuesday with a bipartisan group of congressional leaders as the White House seeks to corral support for a comprehensive immigration reform package before the summer recess.

The Oval Office meeting will include House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), the White House said Monday. Vice President Biden will also attend.

AKA…..”How can we get my Traitorous agenda for even bigger government, and more open borders through Congress?”

gop……………DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

PappyD61 on June 25, 2013 at 2:25 PM

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Actually, the thesis of the article is that such an explanation is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy on the part of “liberals,” but don’t let me stop your delusions.

You also still like ducking the subject of Obama’s known corrupt antecedents and the fact that government intervention has -caused- the problems that you decry and the current fiasco of legalizing criminal migrants is one that La Raza and the left have been advocating for years, while demagoging anyone who wants legal immigration with border enforcement as racist.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Brilliant, send the low-information perfesser off to study the dictionary for a while.

slickwillie2001 on June 25, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Sorry, but the Senate amnesty minus a path to citizenship is just as deadly. Republicans who cave on legalization will at some point have to cave on citizenship.

Wigglesworth on June 25, 2013 at 2:31 PM

there was a point in U.S. history when black people commanded real economic power as a group. Ha!

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:41 PM

…Why would you want black people to command economic power “as a group”? That would necessarily exclude people of other races. I would prefer black people commanded economic power individually, the way the rest of us do.

alwaysfiredup on June 25, 2013 at 2:33 PM

So, the Russians and the ones of China understand that Obama is a empty suit, they know he will back down every time, has not guts, there is no there there.

Yet the Republican Party leaders can not see, understand this or it looks like they are just under paid enablers of the commie Democrat Party.

No way they are this dumb, has to be they are getting a cut off the bottom of the deck from the tax money we send to D.C..

APACHEWHOKNOWS on June 25, 2013 at 2:44 PM

Anyone ever wonder if when Obama meets with these guys if he does not just give each one a security envelope to read with some of the dirt he has one them from his illegal unconstitutional spying? Anyone wonder if that is not why they seem so eager to lick his dog shit coated shoes?

astonerii on June 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM

The best way to make sure this keeps happening is to stay home or vote third party.

The way out of this is to fix the GOP. A solid effort was made in 2008-2010.

frode on June 25, 2013 at 1:05 PM

The GOP is un-fixable. That was proven unequivocally yesterday. I’m done.

Chris of Rights on June 25, 2013 at 2:55 PM

there was a point in U.S. history when black people commanded real economic power as a group. Ha!

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:41 PM

…Why would you want black people to command economic power “as a group”? That would necessarily exclude people of other races. I would prefer black people commanded economic power individually, the way the rest of us do.

alwaysfiredup on June 25, 2013 at 2:33 PM

He’s talking about the fact that other historically disadvantaged groups in America have banded together to mutually economically aid each other (Which is a good idea!), except for African Americans.

The truth of the matter is that black Americans have the financial wealth to help each other out, but, because they have been politically acculturated to look to Uncle Sam for handouts rather than use their own economic power, they lag economically. As a result, they have money, but not -wealth.-

http://www.naacp.org/blog/entry/know-your-worth-if-we-dont-know-we-cant-grow-our-community

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 2:57 PM

NO.

We do not HAVE to offer crap. In offering ANYTHING with this monstrosity of a crap sandwich Senate bill if we lose reconciliation we lose the Republic.

Yes we should have a path to normalcy and yes we should be prosecuting and deporting illegals who break our other laws…

the democrat cities are willfully encouraging crime to alter this nation like the labour party did the UK….and if this passes I will begin to agree with Scotland on what the answer is.

My bad. I left out an important piece….no change to the legal status of any illegal under my proposal. I simply see the outline I gave as a way to remove the incentives for anyone to come here…or to stay here. The only true way to limit the influx of illegals is to eliminate the incentive to risk a border crossing. As long as there are jobs and benefits in the US…they’ll keep coming….no matter how much fencing you build and no matter how many border agents you hire.

Sorry for the confusion.

ScottiesRule on June 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM

Never, ever going to vote on the Republican ticket again while holding my nose. NEVER, NADA

mobydutch on June 25, 2013 at 3:02 PM

libfreeordie on June 25, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Actually, the thesis of the article is that such an explanation is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy on the part of “liberals,” but don’t let me stop your delusions.

You also still like ducking the subject of Obama’s known corrupt antecedents and the fact that government intervention has -caused- the problems that you decry and the current fiasco of legalizing criminal migrants is one that La Raza and the left have been advocating for years, while demagoging anyone who wants legal immigration with border enforcement as racist.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Brilliant, send the low-information perfesser off to study the dictionary for a while.

slickwillie2001 on June 25, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Well, to put it in blunt English terms, he’ll continue to duck & dodge the fact that the Left (spearheaded by La Raza) is responsible for the deplorable race-baiting idiocy that prevents a rational call for increased LEGAL immigration and properly-supervised guest worker progams over and against cracking down on criminal migration on this issue. He’ll also ignore the fact that expanding employment opportunities for the poor of all races is being deliberately killed off by “no-growth” leftists through regulations and anti-small business legislation.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Anyone ever wonder if when Obama meets with these guys if he does not just give each one a security envelope to read with some of the dirt he has one them from his illegal unconstitutional spying? Anyone wonder if that is not why they seem so eager to lick his dog shit coated shoes?

astonerii on June 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Yes. I don’t get it. I don’t understand the senate lying to us the way they have. I read the bill and the Amendment. Everything they have said is an effing lie.

Incometano can nix anything she doesn’t like. There are no controls, metrics, milestones, or testing. And she can write a report that says sending a stapler to Arizona is a better technical solution to the problem and that’s that.

The long list of equipment, agents and etc and etc are all bullshit smoke and mirrors.

dogsoldier on June 25, 2013 at 3:49 PM

what the hell are they teaching kids in college nowadays? the fact that this issue divides on education level is telling. Once again common sense trumps a college degree.

unseen on June 25, 2013 at 4:21 PM

I’m sorry but our founding Fathers would have already been in the streets. they would never stand for a government ignoring the will of the people like this.

unseen on June 25, 2013 at 4:41 PM

Poll: Near-majority of Republicans say they’re less likely to vote for incumbents who support path to citizenship

If Speaker of the House John Boehner allows a House version of this Amnesty-travesty to make it to a Conference Committee with the Senate, we should all be unwilling to vote for incumbents who support allowing Speaker Boehner to remain as Speaker.

wren on June 25, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Where do I sign?

Mr. Grump on June 25, 2013 at 5:31 PM

I mean this with every fiber of my being:

Any legislation passed that grants legal status to illegals will result in my never voting Republican again. I will vote third party and hope and pray for a quick death to the Republican party. I would hope that politicians who are also against the legalization of illegals will leave the party and join a third party.

Screw the Republican establishment.

Screw the RINOs.

I don’t care if Democrats are elected because I didn’t vote…really, what difference will it make after illegals get legal status? That’s right…none. The country is over at that point. The only thing we can do is watch the corpse’s temperature drop and wait for it to stop twitching.

trapeze on June 25, 2013 at 5:51 PM

For me, not only less likely, but not at all. Period. If they prefer cuddling up to and rewarding law breaking illegal invaders instead of looking out for the best interest of the Republic and its legal citizens, they can seek employment elsewhere…..overseas would be good.

hawkeye54 on June 25, 2013 at 5:54 PM

No way they are this dumb, has to be they are getting a cut off the bottom of the deck from the tax money we send to D.C..

APACHEWHOKNOWS on June 25, 2013 at 2:44 PM

I have to agree. Pay off for personal benefit usually gets further and faster and longer than threats, intimidation and blackmail, and get more eager takers, in my opinion.

hawkeye54 on June 25, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Eh, screw it. I’m never voting for a GOP clown again. Be the kind of conservative I want, or get yourself elected without me. If we end up, as I believe we will, with a long-term socialist regime, I’ll sign up for every government program I can and wait for the whole thing to implode in on itself. And then I’ll bitch and moan, real loud, that the socialists aren’t giving me enough stuff.

Rational Thought on June 25, 2013 at 6:02 PM

what the hell are they teaching kids in college nowadays? the fact that this issue divides on education level is telling. Once again common sense trumps a college degree.

unseen on June 25, 2013 at 4:21 PM

Look at “libfree” for the answer.

ebrown2 on June 25, 2013 at 6:06 PM

If we want to vote them all out, we better start now finding qualified people to run against them. They are going to need face and name recognition and some local issues to run on if we want them to succeed.

Kissmygrits on June 25, 2013 at 6:15 PM

I would like to a serious explanation from anyone who supports conservatism here. I’ll start off by saying I grew up in an immigrant family (and no not latino). But The Republicans have always portrayed themselves as pro- business. Immigration reform as it is being tossed around now is certainly not perfect.

But a “path to citizenship” is actually good for America. We by tolerating such an excessively large population of illegals have been investing in them. They’ve benefited from our public services (in all forms) and worked here. You’re talking millions of dollars. A line in the sand has to be drawn no doubt. But by tolerating the existing population you’ve tolerated the crime and therefore accepted it as a norm. By not acting against the crime we lose the right to cry about it. This does not justify it. By giving a pathway for the existing illegals to become citizens it benefits us in that we can then start taxing them, they no longer are below the radar and are paying into the system they are benefiting from. Additionally the businesses that hired them pay taxes on the employee, It acts as a stop-gap on money being earned here and funneled out of the country. You can also as a pre-condition of citizenship slap a pro-rata back tax against them to be paid off over time that way they’re illegal status isn’t just written off. Just expelling them as a logical argument is just asinine. Its bad business, makes no sense financially, and is the equivalent of throwing away cash.

You then clamp down on illegals and take a firm stand against it. Anyone who thinks a pathway should be denied I personally feel is masking personal prejudices. It all goes back to this countries failure to act and that falls on all sides of the aisle.

Rattl3r on June 25, 2013 at 7:25 PM

I am in the same exact position! (O.K. I haven’t been around as long as you:) Reagan was my first vote ever…

…And at every turn we are taken for granted because they count on us saying, “well he’s better than the other guy”. No more I held my nose one too many times. If someone’s a RINO squish they can forget about my vote.

Minnfidel on June 25, 2013 at 1:15 PM

LOL. I don’t often mention specifics but MY first-ever presidential vote was for Richard Nixon. Not exactly inspiring, eh? At least YOUR first vote went to a president who will be remembered for bringing down communism rather than one who brought down an administration. :-/

I’m with you, no more RINO votes.

bigbeachbird on June 25, 2013 at 7:41 PM

ScottiesRule on June 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM

There are many proposals that are good in your plan. They would make an excellent Amendment to the Senate bill. However, it would be voted down by the Democrats & the RINO Republicans in the Senate, as all other sane Amendments were.

Keep in mind that the Dems control the Senate and only what Harry Reid wants & allows will be done.

We are in worse shape in the House even tho we hold the majority, Speaker Boehner does what Harry Reid wants.

We ONLY have a chance to defeat this Amnesty if NO related Trojan Horse (read any related Immigration bill)is brought to the floor for a vote. If it does, then EVERY Republcan MUST VOTE IT DOWN!!

If I don’t have this right, someone enlighten me, please.

bluefox on June 25, 2013 at 7:47 PM

I’m leaving the GOP and Iv’e been a registered republican since 1960. In 2008 I donated a hefty amount to the Party and there after I was on their base and got begging letters and emails from all over the country from anyone running on the republican ticket. My letters and emails are ignored by the Representatives of the party that no longer hear or see our views. The democrats are worse so I’ll go independent.

mixplix on June 25, 2013 at 8:18 PM

A conservative third party will take a lot of time to organize so we must start immediately.Perhaps the formation of Conservative Parties at the state level with the ability to endorse Republicans or run a challenger in a three way race would be the way to start.Pressure must be brought against the GOP so that either it purges the RINOs and once more becomes an effective vehicle for the advancement of a conservative agenda,or it must be relegated to a minor party on its way to oblivion.Our failure to begin this process will result in the destruction of conservative causes and this once great nation.

redware on June 25, 2013 at 8:26 PM

idesign on June 25, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Wow, a lot of integrity is lacking with this one.

Thanks, idesign. Been busy today and didn’t see this.

bluefox on June 25, 2013 at 8:57 PM

How about this plan: Get a majority in the Senate first, THEN clean house.

crosspatch on June 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM

Translation: “KEEP VOTING FOR ANY/EVERY CANDIDATE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY VOMITS FORTH, NO MATTER WHAT RUINOUS POLICIES THEY SUPPORT OR HOW BALDLY THEY LIE TO YOUR FACE!” Because once you’ve elected a set (yet unspecified) hard number of CINOs, they will automatically transmogrify from left-leaning squishes to conservative stalwarts from that point onward. Or something.

Fail.

Kent18 on June 25, 2013 at 9:04 PM

If Speaker of the House John Boehner allows a House version of this Amnesty-travesty to make it to a Conference Committee with the Senate, we should all be unwilling to vote for incumbents who support allowing Speaker Boehner to remain as Speaker.

wren on June 25, 2013 at 5:10 PM

I’ll second that!!

bluefox on June 25, 2013 at 9:24 PM

I’ll never trust Paul Ryan again on anything. I’ve never trusted Boehner. He’s a total sleeze.

Conservchik on June 25, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Why should this poll count any more than the half dozen polls that showed that a majority of Republicans support immigration reform with a pathway to citizenship? You say a near majority here…well in poll after poll the numbers of Republicans supporting this were in the 60s and 70s and somehow that rarely rated a mention at hot air.

Don’t worry however, enough screaming from the blogs and talk radio and we will probably get to keep the status quo with the porous border and defacto amnesty.

I’ll never trust Paul Ryan again on anything. I’ve never trusted Boehner. He’s a total sleeze.

Conservchik on June 25, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Paul Ryan has been upfront and honest about his feelings on this subject. He has also tried to deal with problems in a rational way…apparently some people prefer demagoguery and hypocricy.

Terrye on June 25, 2013 at 10:39 PM

Here is an example..LINK

Terrye on June 25, 2013 at 10:58 PM

Here is another LINK

Terrye on June 25, 2013 at 11:02 PM

FOX news, various guests, continue to exclaim, “there’s a large majority who support ‘a path to citizenship’” and “‘a path to citizenship, as everyone knows, is overwhelmingly popular…” and similar fantasies.

I NEVER HEAR *ANYONE* except leftwing people and among those, the communist-associated among the “Brown People Supremacy” crowd support such (“a path to citizenship”) and, many an immigration attorney who does but that’s it.

So I don’t know, specifically, just WHO this “majority” is who allegedly “support” “a path to citizenship”.

Anyone? Has there been a party somewhere that I never read about where this was decided by that “majority”?

Lourdes on June 26, 2013 at 1:21 AM

Here is another LINK

Terrye on June 25, 2013 at 11:02 PM

I think a lot of that sort of linkage “reporting” is propaganda, like, say, “give up, everyone ELSE wants it, don’t be a party-pooper.”

Lourdes on June 26, 2013 at 1:23 AM

Paul Ryan has been upfront and honest about his feelings on this subject. He has also tried to deal with problems in a rational way…apparently some people prefer demagoguery and hypocricy.

Terrye on June 25, 2013 at 10:39 PM

Ryan, like Rubio, suffers the Jeb Bush influence or perhaps, pressure. He’s taken many a populist view on issues after increased national attention on his views because he appears to think he’s opining in the most popular fashion. Which he isn’t.

Jeb Bush and his mentees (Rubio, perhaps Ryan also), or rather, those under his political influence and/or pressure, assume that because he enjoyed popularity in Florida, Mexico and South America that he’s then going to be thinking in-line with the greater population in the US, but he isn’t and doesn’t.

Ryan’s proved his immaturity on some issues, if not in general, by assuming that if he opts to go with the populist views, which is mostly a Liberal characteristic, that he’s doing the right thing. But he isn’t and that’s why he’s immature politically if not otherwise.

And, there ARE certain segments in the Catholic Church who preach the Leftwing views, the likes of which Kerry and Pelosi and others have been encouraged by, and I fear this may be what’s affecting Ryan.

Lourdes on June 26, 2013 at 1:28 AM

And, there ARE certain segments in the Catholic Church who preach the Leftwing views, the likes of which Kerry and Pelosi and others have been encouraged by, and I fear this may be what’s affecting Ryan.

Lourdes on June 26, 2013 at 1:28 AM

I’m Catholic, by the way, but the Leftwing tangents taken by certain groups within the Church are a real test for the Church and for those of us who continue to be Catholics.

Lourdes on June 26, 2013 at 1:29 AM

I tend to agree that the GOP will be a party-of-pitifully-low-numbers if they agree with and pass this Rubio-Schumer mess or any variations that associate with it.

I won’t stay in the GOP if they do, I can attest to that.

The GOP has to get it and get it soon if it’s going to survive as a party that Rubio, McCain, Graham, those like them, are not the future of the party, they’re the embarrassing past.

Lourdes on June 26, 2013 at 1:32 AM

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