Paul: Snowden may tarnish his reputation by going to Russia or Cuba

posted at 12:31 pm on June 23, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Golly — do you think Edward Snowden is worried about his reputation at the moment, or his ability to remain out of the reach of the FBI? Senator Rand Paul appeared on CNN’s State of the Union after news broke earlier today that Snowden had boogie-footed it to the Muscovite paradise of free speech, probably as an interim stop on his way to Venezuela, Cuba, or perhaps Iceland.  Paul hailed Snowden as a truth-teller and condemned DNI James Clapper as a liar, but said both had to account for their “criminal” acts.  And if Snowden went to a nation hostile to both America and human rights, Paul warned that Snowden risked tarnishing his reputation by doing so (via Eliana Johnson at The Corner):

“I do think that when history looks at this, they are going to contrast the behavior James Clapper, our national intelligence director, with Edward Snowden,” Paul told CNN’s Candy Crowley. “Mr. Clapper lied in Congress, in defiance of the law, in the name of security. Mr. Snowden told the truth in the name of privacy. So I think there will be a judgment, because both of them broke of the law.”

Clapper was asked by Oregon senator Ron Wyden in a March congressional hearing whether the government was collecting “any type of data at all on millions of Americans.” He responded, “No, sir.”

Paul said that cozying up to Putin’s Russa will tarnish Snowden’s reputation, but that if he takes refuge in a neutral country, he may be seen in history’s eyes as an advocate for privacy.

Er, isn’t reputation a secondary issue at this point?  Iceland may be the only legitimate destination on the radar which both respects human rights and doesn’t normally extradite people like Snowden to the US.  Even Iceland might not be a sure thing, and Snowden has to arrive there before actually applying for asylum.  With the US charging Snowden with espionage and not merely as a leaker, that application has some risk of failure.  That basically leaves Snowden with a range of choices of nations with US relations that go from contentious (Russia) to hostile (Venezuela) to outright enemies (Cuba).  He doesn’t have too many other choices.  Unless France wants to put him up in Ira Einhorn’s old digs, that is.

Meanwhile, Paul’s colleague Chuck Schumer is steaming mad at Vladimir Putin for welcoming Snowden for a visit.  On the same show, Schumer warned that Russia would face “serious consequences” in the diplomatic relationship for harboring Snowden (via Business Insider and WFB):

Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.), the third-ranking Senate Democratic leader, said Sunday that Russia will face “serious consequences” if it harbors Edward Snowden, who has been charged with espionage.

“What’s infuriating here is Prime Minister [Vladimir] Putin of Russia abetting Snowden’s escape,” Schumer said in a CNN “State of the Union” interview. “I think it will have serious consequences for the United States-Russia relationship.” …

Schumer said Putin likely approved Snowden’s flight to Russia and certainly knew of it.

“Something at this level in a state- controlled country, the minute Aeroflot got the notification he would be coming, I believe that Putin, it’s almost certain he knew, and it’s likely he approved it,” he said.

Barack Obama just pivoted to nuclear disarmament in his foreign policy efforts, so this comes at a particularly bad time for the White House.  Schumer, who should be one of Obama’s big allies in pushing a treaty through the Senate, explicitly stated that the Snowden affair would impact all bilateral efforts, including nuclear disarmament.  Frankly, that should be tied to Russia’s lack of effort on containing Iran and its drive for nuclear weapons more than the Snowden affair, but either way, it’s going to get the message across to Washington DC that Russia isn’t a friend to the US — and it never has been, reset buttons or not. Schumer mentions Russia “putting a finger in the eye” of the US whenever Putin gets the chance; it’s good to see a few people noticing that.


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Resist We Much on June 23, 2013 at 4:57 PM

I read a lot of the comments but hardly post. Most of the commenters who engaged Hal aren’t totally innocent either. It was definitely give and take on both sides.

While he was over the top every now and then, I don’t think he was that over to get banned. Especially when you compare his comments with some here.

loveofcountry on June 23, 2013 at 5:46 PM

The most effective way is a ban. Ignoring them is like ignoring a small child throwing a temper tantrum hoping the brat will run out of breath.

MelonCollie on June 23, 2013 at 5:41 PM

How long did it take for Shallow HAL to be banned, hmmmmmm? Why do you believe National Parks bother having, “Don’t feed the bears!” signs, anyway?

If a troll like Shallow HAL had the option to choose between a thread full of posters he knew he could provoke, and one full of posters like me, OmahaConservative, gophergirl, DireStraits, Scrumpy, and cozmo, who support trollcotting, which thread do you think he’d choose to enter?

Anti-Control on June 23, 2013 at 5:52 PM

I read the thread. HAL is too stupid to understand that MKH swings the fastest banhammer on the internet…plus, she’s preggers. (Ask a woman how tolerant she was/is with pregger hormones. I know that I had no tolerance for anything, especially idiotic men.)

Can’t say that I will miss the despicable toad. LMFAO!

Resist We Much on June 23, 2013 at 3:26 PM

How many women with PMS does it take to change a lightbulb?

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!

davidk on June 23, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Especially when you compare his comments with some here.

loveofcountry on June 23, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Like?

davidk on June 23, 2013 at 5:55 PM

How long did it take for Shallow HAL to be banned, hmmmmmm?

That would be the fault of the admins sitting with their thumbs up their butt for years, bucko.

Why do you believe National Parks bother having, “Don’t feed the bears!” signs, anyway?

Anti-Control on June 23, 2013 at 5:52 P

HAL is not a bear (he’s a toothless freak) and this is not a public-access site, hence the login requirement.

MelonCollie on June 23, 2013 at 6:00 PM

That would be the fault of the admins sitting with their thumbs up their butt for years, bucko.

HAL is not a bear (he’s a toothless freak) and this is not a public-access site, hence the login requirement.

MelonCollie on June 23, 2013 at 6:00 PM

So, taking as long as it did for the mods to ban Shallow HAL proved to be a better idea than simply ignoring him would have been?

I love how you couldn’t directly address my point – you are an excuse-making, cowardly dingaling! lol

Anti-Control on June 23, 2013 at 6:04 PM

It’s the conservatives who say fluke you or hurl epitaphs at the trolls in response who drive me the most crazy? How is that effective? It just eggs them on…

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 6:21 PM

At least in Russia or Cuba he stands less chance of getting Petraeused whacked by our Regime.

viking01 on June 23, 2013 at 6:37 PM

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 6:21 PM

epithets. damned spellcheck. and the question mark didn’t belong either…

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 6:40 PM

Someone should tell Chuck that Putin is the Russian Prime Minister. He seems to think that Russia and The US are allies. Is he new in the Senate? I mean we haven’t been “allies” with Russia since World War 2, and even then it was just admiration between dictators, Roosevelt’s fondness for “Uncle Joe’s” type of power.

papertiger on June 23, 2013 at 6:44 PM

It’s the conservatives who say fluke you or hurl epitaphs at the trolls in response who drive me the most crazy? How is that effective? It just eggs them on…

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 6:21 PM

I’m not sure if you’re directing that at me, but if you are: 1) I don’t consider MelonCollie a troll, although he is quite surly ! 2) I consider “talking with” trolls to be distinct from “indulging” them, and I never support the latter – I don’t ever allow them to control any dialogue I might have with them! :)

Anti-Control on June 23, 2013 at 6:45 PM

papertiger on June 23, 2013 at 6:44 PM

No, Putin is the Russian President these days…

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 6:47 PM

Anti-Control on June 23, 2013 at 6:45 PM

No, not directed at you at all. I don’t mind folks engaging the trolls, but if all they can do is hurl invective and cuss at them, they shouldn’t bother. I enjoy yours and RWM and others repartee w/trolls at times…

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 6:51 PM

I read a lot of the comments but hardly post. Most of the commenters who engaged Hal aren’t totally innocent either. It was definitely give and take on both sides.

While he was over the top every now and then, I don’t think he was that over to get banned. Especially when you compare his comments with some here.

loveofcountry on June 23, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Balderdash!

5(c)(ii), 5(c)(iii), 5(h), 10(a) among others.

Resist We Much on June 23, 2013 at 6:54 PM

New irritating (D) poster we’ve never heard from before appearing in 3…2…

rogerb on June 23, 2013 at 7:12 PM

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 6:51 PM

…(I’m guilty…that’s my whole purpose!)

KOOLAID2 on June 23, 2013 at 7:17 PM

We, the USA, will continue to pump billions to the people that hate our guts hoping for a different response. Buying friendship never worked but try to convince Congress of that.

mixplix on June 23, 2013 at 7:18 PM

Anyway, you can guarantee each of these countries will get EVERYTHING, the thousands of documents, that the traitor stole.

Allahpundit wrote on twitter:

“China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela. Wow. #snowden #opengovernmenttour2013
5:44 AM – 23 Jun 2013″

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:20 PM

…(I’m guilty…that’s my whole purpose!)

KOOLAID2 on June 23, 2013 at 7:17 PM

Yep, I know that…

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 7:30 PM

While the HotAir commenter crowd is occupied sanctifying the traitor Snowden and clamoring for people with dissenting views to get banned here (see discussion above) the Bradley Manning bosom buddy Snowden continues his world-wide tour of American adversaries in his quest to further weaken the United States.

Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, Al Qaeda terrorists, the America-hating left, wacko Alex Jones conspiracy theorists and all of America’s enemies are filled with glee or are pumped up over Snowden’s betrayal.

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:30 PM

I read a lot of the comments but hardly post. Most of the commenters who engaged Hal aren’t totally innocent either. It was definitely give and take on both sides.
While he was over the top every now and then, I don’t think he was that over to get banned. Especially when you compare his comments with some here.
loveofcountry on June 23, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Agreed.

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:32 PM

While the HotAir commenter crowd is occupied sanctifying the traitor Snowden

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:30 PM

If he’s a traitor why haven’t they charged him with treason, you Vichy lapdog?

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 7:32 PM

Agreed.

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:32 PM

Wow. You defend people who fantasize about drones killing political opponents and attack those who expose the crimes of the governments that wish to do so.

Humanity never ceases to astonish.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 7:34 PM

It just eggs them on…

OmahaConservative on June 23, 2013 at 6:21 PM

…and each has imploded.

Schadenfreude on June 23, 2013 at 7:35 PM

First Little Green Footballs.

Then Hot Air?

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM

…stench!!!

KOOLAID2 on June 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM

bluegill, what a troll you are.

Either think, or go for a vacation. You’re a liar too.

Schadenfreude on June 23, 2013 at 7:39 PM

Humanity never ceases to astonish.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 7:34 PM

Fishags are not “humanity”.

Schadenfreude on June 23, 2013 at 7:40 PM

KOOLAID2, no matter who says what, left to right, always do/say what you feel is right.

When they shut us up, it’ll be very dark.

Schadenfreude on June 23, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Fishhags

Schadenfreude on June 23, 2013 at 7:41 PM

If there were justice in the world, Snowden would be living it up in the White House and Obama and the NSA ring leaders would be in hiding. I have no doubt, the Founding Fathers would concur.
Ideally, Zimbabwe or Kenya or North Korea, would be the only countries that would let them hide there and then it would have to be in a cave somewhere.

VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Solaratov et al:

“While he may, indeed, have passed along a thumb drive with information to either or both of those entities, he certainly has not gone into any significant detail about the programs/operations.

You know this because?

I happen to know that he did probably compromise a critical program because I can do subtraction. Some people here have the idea that his expressions of dissent over the past few years “proves” he was acting from the best of motives. Anybody who knows anything about counterintelligence will tell you that Snowden is exactly the kind of person who get recruited. It’s not usually the ideologue who turns into a spy. It’s the disaffected who is most likely to be doing it. For all we know he could have been passing intelligence to his handlers for a long time and that the exposure of Prism was the exit strategy for his ex filtration.

Finally, yes both Russia and Chine know we spy on them. what they don’t are the tactics, techniques, procedures and exact targets. Snowden can, and may have already, provide those to our adversaries. We only know what he could have told them and even if specific channels of intelligence are not compromised we can never trust them again.

It is a disturbing revelation to me that my side of the political spectrum is as gullible as the the other side but I guess I should have known this since people are basically made from the same stuff.

jerryofva on June 23, 2013 at 7:42 PM

I think bluegill may be the reincarnation of Heinrich Himmler.

VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 7:47 PM

While the HotAir commenter crowd is occupied sanctifying the traitor Snowden

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:30 PM

He is not a traitor. He exposed the regime’s spying on every citizen. They broke the law and he can prove it. He got away with a ton of dirt the NSA gathered.

It will all come out. Zero must be half crazed with fear.

dogsoldier on June 23, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Last week Snowden was “liar.” This week he’s a “leaker.”
Next week he’s a “traitor.”

Can’t the Ogabe Regime get their propaganda straight?

viking01 on June 23, 2013 at 7:49 PM

It is a disturbing revelation to me that my side of the political spectrum is as gullible as the the other side but I guess I should have known this since people are basically made from the same stuff.

jerryofva on June 23, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Go look at what Russ Tice has to say. The NSA got dirt on a SCOTUS justice. You think Zero didn’t use that?

The NSA makes J Edgar Hoover look like a piker.

dogsoldier on June 23, 2013 at 7:52 PM

Can’t the Ogabe Regime get their propaganda straight?

viking01 on June 23, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Well no, because none of what they are doing is working. He has proof and probably a nice chunk of the dirt the NSA has been collecting.

They collected a lot on Obama, according to Tice…

dogsoldier on June 23, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Snowden was just a low level, although apparently high paid, contractor, so I really doubt he had access to the plans for the latest stealth tea party seeking Obama drone or Obama death ray that only kills conservatives thinking bad thoughts about him, or anything like that.

VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 7:53 PM

If there were justice in the world, Snowden would be living it up in the White House…
VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Yes, this is the typical, embarrassing drivel we see from the shameful butt-kissers of the anti-American traitor Snowden. So-called conservatives like VorDaj are giddy over our adversaries’ good fortune in getting the reams of documents, whose exposure weakens our country and puts us at greater risk, because Glenn Beck said to be and because such people are nothing more than cheap partisan boobs who think this will be the thing that brings down Obama. Obama will be gone in a few years, but Islamic terrorists will remain.

Shame on you fools for cheering on the traitor Snowden!

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Snowden was just a low level, although apparently high paid, contractor, so I really doubt he had access to the plans for the latest stealth tea party seeking Obama drone or Obama death ray that only kills conservatives thinking bad thoughts about him, or anything like that.
VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 7:53 PM

You can’t be for real. You embarrass this site.

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Oops, I forgot this last bit:

Anyway, if you see any “revolution” calls in the comments, I’ll hope you’ll give us a heads up on those too.

Gives you a good insight into how the site is going to be run from now on.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 2:58 PM

Yep, that’s interesting alright. Also interesting that ALT got banned for a single infringement while HAL lasted for ages. So, if the person you corresponded with does not read many of the comments, and HAL has never requested anybody be banned, who did snitch on ALT?

AZfederalist on June 23, 2013 at 8:02 PM

I’m not particularly thrilled with Snowden though his revelation of how our out of control government shreds the 4th Amendment rights of The People to empower the Regime over them.

It goes far to explain how the Regime got their dirt on Petraeus and how Benedict Roberts was so easily flipped against the Constitution he pretends to uphold.

If there are traitors to be dealt with start with Ogabe, Holder, Nanzi Pelosi and Benedict Roberts first.

viking01 on June 23, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Shame on you fools for cheering on the traitor Snowden!

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Your idea of patriotism is patriotism on the Germany 1933-1945 plan.

VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Yep, that’s interesting alright. Also interesting that ALT got banned for a single infringement while HAL lasted for ages.

AZfederalist on June 23, 2013 at 8:02 PM

One murder is a crime; a million is a statistic.

VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Yep, that’s interesting alright. Also interesting that ALT got banned for a single infringement while HAL lasted for ages. So, if the person you corresponded with does not read many of the comments, and HAL has never requested anybody be banned, who did snitch on ALT?
AZfederalist on June 23, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Give me a break!

Nothing against ALT, and perhaps she’ll get a second chance, which I’d be happy to see, but this site is soo lenient with commenters. You whiners are really too much. AP and Ed do a great job and allow a wide range of discussion.

Of course they don’t want violent comments or comments with racial slurs. Duh!

And you guys need to quit clamoring for people to be banned just because they disagree with you. Some of you commenters call anyone a troll who doesn’t kiss your behinds.

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 8:08 PM

You can’t be for real. You embarrass this site.

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:58 PM

You embarrass all your ancestors.

VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 8:08 PM

You can’t be for real. You embarrass this site.

blueball on June 23, 2013 at 7:58 PM

…your a comedian!
…self descriptions are funny!

KOOLAID2 on June 23, 2013 at 8:15 PM

I am going to treat VorDaj’s post seriously. Back in the pre-IT days the biggest threat to security was not the senior intelligence analyst but the group secretary. She had access to everything the group was doing. Secretaries were the prime target for Soviet intelligence. Today, it is exactly people like Snowden who are the biggest security threat. The IT security guy can get into anything on the system. He is usually a system administrator with root access. You are under the mistaken belief that just because the IT guy/gal is a weenie that they don’t see anything. They see everything in their purview and beyond. They are now the prime target of any intelligence agency seeking to gain inside access.

jerryofva on June 23, 2013 at 8:17 PM

So, how many here are on-board with David Gregory? bluegill, I know, agrees wholeheartedly with the establishment media.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Shame on you fools for cheering on the traitor Snowden!

bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 7:56 PM

If he’s a traitor why hasn’t be been charged with treason?

Your refusal to address this question demonstrates what a coward you are, intellectually and otherwise.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 8:22 PM

The IT security guy can get into anything on the system. He is usually a system administrator with root access. You are under the mistaken belief that just because the IT guy/gal is a weenie that they don’t see anything. They see everything in their purview and beyond. They are now the prime target of any intelligence agency seeking to gain inside access.

jerryofva on June 23, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Who says that Snowden was “the IT security guy” or “system administrator with ‘root access’”? Where has that been reported? Where has anything like that been reported? Where?

VorDaj on June 23, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Hey Paul, and every other pol who actually cares about this issue:

Can we shut up about Edward Snowden? He’s pretty much irrelevant at this point. Turning the story into some American Idol Kardashian bull—- is not helping the cause.

He’s not a hero, he’s not a traitor. He’s some guy. Tying the cause of dismantling the Panopticon State to his utterances and actions is stupid. You’re Alinskying yourself.

HitNRun on June 23, 2013 at 9:58 PM

I read the thread. HAL is too stupid to understand that MKH swings the fastest banhammer on the internet…plus, she’s preggers. (Ask a woman how tolerant she was/is with pregger hormones. I know that I had no tolerance for anything, especially idiotic men.)
Can’t say that I will miss the despicable toad. LMFAO!
Resist We Much on June 23, 2013 at 3:26 PM

HAL was over the top. But I get hit plenty with over the top bits.
I’d hate to think ban campaigns like Liam’s have anything to do with it.

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM

I have been reading you a long time. Your bona fides are without question.
HAL is simply an abuser, the kind of person we don’t allow on our side. Realistically — if we divest from such among our own, how should we tolerate that kind of person from our opposition?
Liam on June 23, 2013 at 3:25 PM

I would suggest you start having long talks with the likes of PrimordialOrderedPair and Schadenfreude before making that statement so assertively. Because, at the least, it’s a bending on the truth, your bolder statement.

Genuine on June 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM

*bolded

Sorry, just gotta be ready for the grammar police, just in case. ;)

Genuine on June 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM

HAL was over the top. But I get hit plenty with over the top bits.
I’d hate to think ban campaigns like Liam’s have anything to do with it.

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM

IMHO you’re giving Liam too much credit.

MelonCollie on June 23, 2013 at 10:05 PM

And you guys need to quit clamoring for people to be banned just because they disagree with you. Some of you commenters call anyone a troll who doesn’t kiss your behinds.
bluegill on June 23, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Jesus, I hate to agree with Bluegill just for the guilt by association of this place. But THAT’s a cold hard fact if EVER I did see one.

And more than that, gleefully celebrate the bannings of some, some who fully deserved it btw. While whining and crying and writing to the editors to have “I’ll call you w*tback, ALT” and “We should have a media person h*nging from every lamppost SWalker” plleeeeeeeeaaaasseeee reinstated, for weeks.

It’s all ABOUT the behind kissing here. If you do, you’re in, free pass in our collective minds. If you don’t, you’re a paid troll who brought all of this on us and it’s your fault that you and you’re scumbag leftist terrorist pals have destroyed America”.

Wait, you said you just disagreed with me on something and didn’t vote for Barack Obama or the Democrats? Sorry!!! You know… It’s just EASIER for us to pigeonhole, dehumanize, and deligitimize people who disagree with us around here, right off, so we can more easily dismiss anything that might challenge the worldview fed to us. You know how it goes. Sorry! What’s it called? Epistemic…. Oh never mind.

;)

Genuine on June 23, 2013 at 10:12 PM

The IT security guy can get into anything on the system. He is usually a system administrator with root access. You are under the mistaken belief that just because the IT guy/gal is a weenie that they don’t see anything. They see everything in their purview and beyond. They are now the prime target of any intelligence agency seeking to gain inside access.

jerryofva on June 23, 2013 at 8:17 PM

Thanks for showing that you have never worked in IT. There is no single “IT security guy” in most companies.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM

HAL was banned because he had established a reputation as a troll(and admitted that was his purpose), and topped it off by fantasizing about the government using drones to kill Tea Partiers.

Whether the admins want to admit that or not, that is what HAL said, and it’s what they’ve banned other users for in past.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 10:18 PM

IMHO you’re giving Liam too much credit.
MelonCollie on June 23, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Well as I said, I’d hate to think he deserves any.
And yes, likely he doesn’t – so hopefully he’s not encouraged.

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 10:20 PM

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM
HAL was banned because he had established a reputation as a troll(and admitted that was his purpose), and topped it off by fantasizing about the government using drones to kill Tea Partiers.
Whether the admins want to admit that or not, that is what HAL said, and it’s what they’ve banned other users for in past.
MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 10:18 PM

They can ban whoever they want for whatever reason they want.
I just question the selective sensitivity by some fellow commenters to ‘offensive comments’.

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 10:27 PM

I just question the selective sensitivity by some fellow commenters to ‘offensive comments’.

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 10:27 PM

There’s nothing particularly selective about drawing the line at people openly fantasizing about the violent deaths of their fellow citizens.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 11:02 PM

I always think it’s smart to move to a country where reporters are never executed….like Russia.

lorien1973 on June 23, 2013 at 11:36 PM

Genuine on June 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM

What a genuine fool of HA you are.

I oppose all bannings. I’m for free speech, even if I disagree with it, no matter the source. You’re not very observant.

Schadenfreude on June 23, 2013 at 11:40 PM

I just question the selective sensitivity by some fellow commenters to ‘offensive comments’.

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 10:27 PM

I had nothing at all to do with HAL’s banning. He brought it on himself, with his own posts. And that’s where I was aiming: at his own posts.

The upside, however it worked out, is that you trolls need to remember to mind your manners around here. I tend to think that’s your problem with the whole affair: You liberals are now finally forced to behave yourselves. It’s about time.

Don’t you dare complain here. I recall you and Sandy Hook, and you’re a ghoul, far as I’m concerned. I expect it bugs you that today you don’t have another pile of tiny caskets to stand on for a soapbox. Instead, one of your sick kind got banned, and that scares you.

It’s about time you trolls learned some manners.

And I don’t care if Conservatives jump your case. You can guess where I say you can shove your attempt at victimhood.

You don’t like us anyway.

Liam on June 23, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Hey Paul, and every other pol who actually cares about this issue:

Can we shut up about Edward Snowden? He’s pretty much irrelevant at this point. Turning the story into some American Idol Kardashian bull—- is not helping the cause.

He’s not a hero, he’s not a traitor. He’s some guy. Tying the cause of dismantling the Panopticon State to his utterances and actions is stupid. You’re Alinskying yourself.

HitNRun on June 23, 2013 at 9:58 PM

Thank You!

BoxHead1 on June 24, 2013 at 12:21 AM

Give Paul some credit for at least acknowledging what Snowden is, unlike half the God-d@mned site.
MelonCollie on June 23, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Snowden is a hero for what he did

He has damaged this country.
Aplombed on June 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM

He may have salvaged this country

Snowden choosing China as his first destination made me question his motives. Yeah, I know he said he was choosing Hong Kong but only a moron wouldn’t know that HK has been under China’s thumb for years now
Bitter Clinger on June 23, 2013 at 12:46 PM

If Hong Kong was not under China, it would not be a safe place for him to go. However, he is also popular in Hong Kong.

First rule: don’t let them assassinate you. The EU would have been a very poor choice considering he was exposing deconstruction of enumerated rights in the US, by the highest levels of political power and patronage. The US could more easily leverage the financially weakened EU for his return. Via China, he can reach Russia. Via either nation, which can both tell the US to stuff it on this, he can go on by diplomatic transport.

The only saving grace for him, is many in Congress now understand, how they closed off the legal channels, in which whistle blowers like Snowden could come forward without fear of reprisal
flackcatcher on June 23, 2013 at 2:32 PM

If the government has turned on its citizens, whistleblower laws have no value. This was Snowden’s dilema.

There is panic in the seats of Power over Snowden, not because he revealed red hot data skimmed from facebook and credit card listings, but because he exposed the monolith being used to track every move and connection of every citizen, without cause. They are trying to redirect people’s attention into hatred of the guy who revealed their duplicity.

If the monolith was a few more years into perfection, Snowden might never have made it out of the country, he would have been denied a plane ticket, his credit cards canceled, his retina scan transmitted to hospitals, his voice print matched at 7-11′s, his girlfriend’s phone re directed. The ones he exposed are doing their best to scapegoat him, waving the flag they defiled

entagor on June 24, 2013 at 12:26 AM

entagor on June 24, 2013 at 12:26 AM

++++

. Tying the cause of dismantling the Panopticon State to his utterances and actions is stupid. You’re Alinskying yourself.

HitNRun on June 23, 2013 at 9:58 PM

The Panopticon is a type of institutional building designed by English philosopher and social theorist Jeremy Bentham in the late 18th century. The concept of the design is to allow a watchman to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) inmates of an institution without their being able to tell whether they are being watched or not.

BoxHead1 on June 24, 2013 at 1:28 AM

Three thoughts.

It is a remarkable thing when people like Chuck and Candy meet reality. think we should send a “Welcome Wagon” gift to the top Dems as they try to deal with world. Things are so much easier when you can concentrate your ire on other Americans.

Second, Chuck, keep comparing Mr. Snowden to MLK and Ghandi. In the primaries let us compare Hillary to Mother Teresa, Florence Nightingale and Elizabeth Ann Seton.

Third, the Russians see weakness in our top leader and think we made a mess of the Mideast. They think that we illogically make problems worse. Don’t expect to read it in the media but they think our poor POTUS is an ass and can make a case on that point.

IlikedAUH2O on June 24, 2013 at 7:52 AM

I got an email.

No, I can’t explain how the Russians think we made a mess. I know they were surprised that we elected president Obama. They expect a guy like Bill O’Reilly to run the US. Whether they would like that event is an open question but that is what they expect. Our Bush legs, foreign aid and love of everyone impresses them. The they expect a belligerent aspect like the Cuban missile crises when they do any little thing wrong. Like we are a school teacher.

I know it sounds stupid, but that is how they see us.

I had the son and grandson of Soviet Generals (and a few others) tear into me on our foreign policy.

No, not like we are evil or want to conquer the world.

He just thought the US makes a real mess of things. The Mideast was his particular focus and that we empowered the nutty Muslims and this goes back before President Obama. remember that they were the targets of the Stingers and 50 cal rounds from stuff we gave to the Taliban and the friends of Bin Laden.

I can imagine how Chuck attacking President Putin with no specifics except sending Mr. Snowden somewhere is going over. Vlad Putin could eat Chuck for breakfast and now sees our POTUS hiding behind him.

IlikedAUH2O on June 24, 2013 at 8:11 AM

So today is the day the Senate betrays the rule of law and rewards tens of millions of lawbreakers and the politicians owners…..the big businesses.

Buh-Bye America………the traitors are in charge.

We’ve got a lot more to worry about than the OJ White Bronco case that that the Snowden show has become.

PappyD61 on June 24, 2013 at 9:07 AM

Rand isn’t terrible looking. That could help him during a presidential campaign, I think.

bluegill on June 24, 2013 at 9:07 AM

This is stupid. Do we think he would have gone to Canada? He is going where HE will be free (or at least freer than in a federal jail getting molested by likely obama voters). I just wish he would release some Fast and Furious or IRS emails.

Spartacus on June 24, 2013 at 9:49 AM

MC et al:

You are right I have never worked in IT but I have been and intelligence professional for 30 years and have worked in what is called computer network operations. Snowden was a security guy. That means he could get into the system and suck data out. If he didn’t have root access how come he has all those files? How would he even know about Prism and what’s in it if he didn’t. FYI, I have been at the facility in Hawaii that Snowden worked in, have you? You can run your mouth as much as you want and believe what ever you want but like every other person running his mouth on Snowden you know jack. Since I reached my expiration date last September, I can only speculate what accesses he had but I have more information and less speculation than you or probably anyone else on Hotair.

jerryofva on June 24, 2013 at 9:51 AM

“The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that peak it”

George Orwell

PatriotRider on June 24, 2013 at 10:18 AM

I just question the selective sensitivity by some fellow commenters to ‘offensive comments’.

verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 10:27 PM

There’s nothing particularly selective about drawing the line at people openly fantasizing about the violent deaths of their fellow citizens.

MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 11:02 PM

I don’t know that a line is drawn. For HAL it was.
And the irony that Liam here fantasizes that I’m ‘bugged’ that I don’t have ‘more tiny caskets to stand on’ (re: gun control debate). It’s laughable that the same guy who offers tidbits like that is somehow oh so offended by someone offering their own offensive comments. So I rest my case. But I offer no complaint to mgmt or admin. Though what Liam offers my indeed be offensive, I’m not offended. More bored by it, really. And sure, sometimes entertained by the silliness of it. But posting this kind of ad-hominem drivel, Liam and HAL simply illustrate an inability to substantively argue or debate. I’d no more welcome HAL advocating for a position I support than you should welcome Liam arguing for one you do.

verbaluce on June 24, 2013 at 10:19 AM

Typo…damn…speak

PatriotRider on June 24, 2013 at 10:19 AM

This Is a HERO… He Stood to protect the US Constitution, and Not The Dictator & Thief..

Patriotism is not blind subservience to government, nor loyalty to a particular leader or party. Patriotism is vigilance in protecting and preserving the US Constitution from all who would pervert or overthrow it, or in any way diminish our many rights, liberties, or sovereignties; and, is a willingness to pay a price for our freedom.

He Saw Something,..And Said Something..!

Capt-Dax on June 24, 2013 at 10:25 AM

MC et al:

You are right I have never worked in IT but I have been and intelligence professional for 30 years and have worked in what is called computer network operations. Snowden was a security guy. That means he could get into the system and suck data out. If he didn’t have root access how come he has all those files? How would he even know about Prism and what’s in it if he didn’t. FYI, I have been at the facility in Hawaii that Snowden worked in, have you? You can run your mouth as much as you want and believe what ever you want but like every other person running his mouth on Snowden you know jack. Since I reached my expiration date last September, I can only speculate what accesses he had but I have more information and less speculation than you or probably anyone else on Hotair.

jerryofva on June 24, 2013 at 9:51 AM

From what I’ve read, Snowden exceeded the security access he was supposed to be limited to – I’d bet he was able to see whatever he wanted…

Anti-Control on June 24, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Chuck ‘The Red’ Schummer is not happy that he was betrayed by his new favorite ideological comrade. Damn those greedy Socialist Dictators! If Gerard Depardieu believes Russia is better than France, than why not Snowden believes it’s better than being in where the US Constitution has been deactivated and bypassed and State powers are all almost erased. Lesser of two evils maybe? Choosing between a selfish egoist dictator and a cabal of jackals is a hard choice if you believe that what you have done is right. Of course you are considered a criminal depending on what side of the ideological fence you are sitting on. This is no more apparent than the rift forming between the Tea Party/GOP and the Libertarians/Democrats.

When the IRS goes after political enemies, what do you think and agency that knows everything about you will do?

Egfrow on June 24, 2013 at 10:54 AM

MC et al:
 
You are right I have never worked in IT but I have been and intelligence professional for 30 years and have worked in what is called computer network operations…
Since I reached my expiration date last September…
 
jerryofva on June 24, 2013 at 9:51 AM

 
Do you know whether, as an employee for a private contractor, he’d pledge an oath to protect the Constitution, sign a nondisclosure agreement to protect the government, or both?
 
It’s a genuine question with no followup and I’m not fishing for debate or a “gotcha!” moment.
 
I’ve read speculation, but no definite answer.

rogerb on June 24, 2013 at 11:17 AM

Exposing how the NSA is tracking and keeping files on US citizens – cool

Exposing how the NSA is tracking foreign terrorist – NOT cool

Tater Salad on June 24, 2013 at 11:23 AM

Glenn Greenwald EVISCERATES the MSM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yq2nu0a0kGk

libfreeordie on June 24, 2013 at 11:41 AM

You can run your mouth as much as you want and believe what ever you want but like every other person running his mouth on Snowden you know jack.

jerryofva on June 24, 2013 at 9:51 AM

You’re so tough.

Too bad what you just said equally applies to yourself.

MadisonConservative on June 24, 2013 at 11:50 AM

But I offer no complaint to mgmt or admin.

That’s your prerogative. However, you and I are both customers at every website we visit, and we have the right to register our complaints. When I see s**t that goes over the line(and it’s fair to say I’m pretty classical liberal about communication), I point it out to the management. Sometimes it goes unanswered, sometimes it doesn’t. I don’t tell them to do anything. I let them know and make their decision. Perhaps others threaten to stop coming to the site or other such nonsense, but I don’t.

But posting this kind of ad-hominem drivel, Liam and HAL simply illustrate an inability to substantively argue or debate. I’d no more welcome HAL advocating for a position I support than you should welcome Liam arguing for one you do.

verbaluce on June 24, 2013 at 10:19 AM

Nor do I. I have reported people who I have completely agreed with. There are certain lines that shouldn’t be crossed, whether it be murder fantasies or speculating about one’s family or loved ones, or posting their private information. I should think these are limits we can agree on, as people of reason.

MadisonConservative on June 24, 2013 at 11:56 AM

I just question the selective sensitivity by some fellow commenters to ‘offensive comments’.
 
verbaluce on June 23, 2013 at 10:27 PM

 
There’s nothing particularly selective about drawing the line at people openly fantasizing about the violent deaths of their fellow citizens.
 
MadisonConservative on June 23, 2013 at 11:02 PM

 
I don’t know that a line is drawn. For HAL it was.
And the irony that Liam here fantasizes that I’m ‘bugged’ that I don’t have ‘more tiny caskets to stand on’ (re: gun control debate). It’s laughable that the same guy who offers tidbits like that is somehow oh so offended by someone offering their own offensive comments. So I rest my case…
 
verbaluce on June 24, 2013 at 10:19 AM

 
Don’t you remember when you joked about slaughtered kids in that Sandy Hook thread, verbaluce?
 

…‘Yeah, Something Like 1,000 Dead Kids,’ Reports Spokesperson
 
verbaluce on December 21, 2012 at 2:16 PM

rogerb on June 24, 2013 at 12:29 PM

There are certain lines that shouldn’t be crossed, whether it be murder fantasies or speculating about one’s family or loved ones, or posting their private information. I should think these are limits we can agree on, as people of reason.

MadisonConservative on June 24, 2013 at 11:56 AM

Yes, we can agree on that.
And I’m sure mgmt is aware when the ‘reporting’ has ulterior motives.
Even here rogerb attributes to me a ‘quote’ that is nothing of the sort – unless I’m writing for The onion unawares.
But he’s not even annoying – just silly.
(What’s annoying is auto-load videos.)

verbaluce on June 24, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Even here rogerb attributes to me a ‘quote’ that is nothing of the sort – unless I’m writing for The onion unawares.
But he’s not even annoying – just silly.
 
verbaluce on June 24, 2013 at 1:05 PM

 
Speaking of “unawares”.
 
Because you didn’t originally think of it somehow frees you from the ownership of willingly re-quoting/posting it a thread on the Sandy Hook massacre?
 
Wow.

rogerb on June 24, 2013 at 1:15 PM

NRA Sets 1,000 Killed In School Shooting As Amount It Would Take For Them To Reconsider Much Of Anything
‘Yeah, Something Like 1,000 Dead Kids,’ Reports Spokesperson
 
verbaluce on December 21, 2012 at 2:16 PM

 

You keep being the cut & paste quotes guy taking cheap and silly shots.
I’ll continue to advocate for the well being and safety your kids.
 
verbaluce on December 21, 2012 at 3:36 PM

 

Sorry, did I misunderstand your link? Were you referencing it jokingly because of some other recent mass murder of children?
 
rogerb on December 21, 2012 at 3:54 PM

 
BTW, you never responded on whether you were referencing some other mass murder of non-Sandy Hook children on that thread.
 
Feel free to clear it up now if you’d like.

rogerb on June 24, 2013 at 1:21 PM

BTW, you never responded
rogerb

Nope…I never did.

verbaluce on June 24, 2013 at 1:43 PM

BTW, you never responded on whether you were referencing some other mass murder of non-Sandy Hook children on that thread.
 
Feel free to clear it up now if you’d like.
 
rogerb on June 24, 2013 at 1:21 PM

 
Nope…I never did.
 
verbaluce on June 24, 2013 at 1:43 PM

 
At which point you accidentally acknowledge that your
 

‘Yeah, Something Like 1,000 Dead Kids,’ Reports Spokesperson
 
verbaluce on December 21, 2012 at 2:16 PM

 
quote is indefensible. Nicely done.
 
And so we’re all on the same page, I don’t want you banned. I’ve never seen any other fathers post ha-ha-look-at-all-the-dead-kid jokes here, so (D) hypocrisy wouldn’t be nearly as easy to point out if you were gone.
 
Hey, you were saying something about standing on tiny caskets upthread, weren’t you?

rogerb on June 24, 2013 at 2:53 PM

I believe it’s now time we accept something new. This will not be easy to accept, but to deny this is to accept the destruction of any notion of freedom and liberty. The simple truth is that this is now a fascist police state. I am to the point of not really “LOVING MY COUNTRY” anymore. You may be worshiping what it once was, but it’s simply no longer that.

It just isn’t.

Just because something is legal or illegal it does not suggest morality. We’re now reaching a point to where the government has made “LEGAL” various immoral actions and “ILLEGAL” various moral actions. As Ron Paul said, the rule of law as it was originally intended has been turned on it’s head. Unfortunately the tyrants have been able to twist and pervert the law to such a degree that our country is no longer about freedom and liberty, it’s now about the illusion of safety from criminal acts called terrorism. This perpetual war on terror, which has no central battlefield, is destroying our country and more importantly, our liberty.

We now have U.S. citizens seeking political asylum in CHINA AND THROUGH RUSSIA to escape the tyranny of the U.S. government. This “last bastion of freedom” is now dead and our only hope is more of a Resurrection than a “change of course”.

fatlibertarianinokc on June 24, 2013 at 3:39 PM

‘Yeah, Something Like 1,000 Dead Kids,’ Reports Spokesperson
 
verbaluce on December 21, 2012 at 2:16 PM

 
BTW, you never responded on whether you were referencing some other mass murder of non-Sandy Hook children on that thread.
 
Feel free to clear it up now if you’d like.
 
rogerb on June 24, 2013 at 1:21 PM

 
Nope…I never did.
 
verbaluce on June 24, 2013 at 1:43 PM

 
Thanks.
 
Comically, you don’t even realize that it makes your original ha-ha-look-at-all-the-dead-kid post even worse.
 
Hey, remember when I told you this?
 

Nicely done. More talking always seems to make you look brighter, doesn’t it?
 
rogerb on April 30, 2013 at 6:45 PM

rogerb on June 25, 2013 at 7:17 AM

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