Accountability: FBI deems agents faultless in 100 percent of shootings over 18 years

posted at 9:31 pm on June 20, 2013 by Mary Katharine Ham

Republicans in the Senate are right now using their savvy to negotiate for the same fence that Congress has been legally required to fund and build since 2007 yet hasn’t while simultaneously promising us that they’re totally going to do all the enforcement in this immigration bill, even though blanket legalization of illegal immigrants will happen first. It’s yet another example of how the federal government does not feel it must live by the laws it imposes on its citizens or even the laws it writes for itself.

You lie to a federal investigator or Member of Congress under oath? You’ll likely be Martha Stewarting a couple months in prison. When Eric Holder lies to Congress under oath? He tells them he was “misinterpreted” and Blagojeviches his way through a second term as the highest ranking law-enforcement officer in the country.

Lose your receipts when facing audit? Say hello to miserable, lengthy investigation, hefty penalties, maybe liens on your property. When the IRS loses receipts? Oops, moving on!

You owe the federal government $500 after a year-long investigation suspiciously timed directly after your whistleblowing? You better pay up. They owe you $8,300? Sorry, statute of limitations is up on that, buddy.

A NYT story reported this week on the suspiciously flawless record of FBI agents in shootings from 1993 to 2011. Too often, with all government employees including law enforcement, things the rest of us would likely go to jail for, are met with virtually no consequences. I have great respect for law enforcement who put themselves in harm’s way to protect others, but that doesn’t mean they’re flawless and should avoid punishment for wrongdoing. You don’t have to click through on too many of Radley Balko’s “puppycide” posts to figure that out. Even if you leave innocent people out of the equation, there’s a virtual epidemic of innocent household pets coming under deadly fire.

After contradictory stories emerged about an F.B.I. agent’s killing last month of a Chechen man in Orlando, Fla., who was being questioned over ties to the Boston Marathon bombing suspects, the bureau reassured the public that it would clear up the murky episode.

“The F.B.I. takes very seriously any shooting incidents involving our agents, and as such we have an effective, time-tested process for addressing them internally,” a bureau spokesman said.

But if such internal investigations are time-tested, their outcomes are also predictable: from 1993 to early 2011, F.B.I. agents fatally shot about 70 “subjects” and wounded about 80 others — and every one of those episodes was deemed justified, according to interviews and internal F.B.I. records obtained by The New York Times through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.

The last two years have followed the same pattern: an F.B.I. spokesman said that since 2011, there had been no findings of improper intentional shootings.

In the style of Eric Holder, the FBI is of course often the only investigating entity in these cases. Here are some of the consequences agents face when actually disciplined:

Occasionally, the F.B.I. does discipline an agent. Out of 289 deliberate shootings covered by the documents, many of which left no one wounded, five were deemed to be “bad shoots,” in agents’ parlance — encounters that did not comply with the bureau’s policy, which allows deadly force if agents fear that their lives or those of fellow agents are in danger. A typical punishment involved adding letters of censure to agents’ files. But in none of the five cases did a bullet hit anyone.

Critics say the fact that for at least two decades no agent has been disciplined for any instance of deliberately shooting someone raises questions about the credibility of the bureau’s internal investigations. Samuel Walker, a professor of criminal justice at the University of Nebraska Omaha who studies internal law enforcement investigations, called the bureau’s conclusions about cases of improper shootings “suspiciously low.”

In other news, Lois Lerner remains on paid vacation.

Radley Balko’s “Rise of the Warrior Cop” comes out this summer, and addresses the many things that go tragically wrong in America every month in police tactics amped up with military weaponry and mission creep. If those we employ to represent and protect us are not subject to the same laws and punishments as we are, we’re really more subjects than citizens.

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100%?

Nicely done. These guys should be congratulated.

CW on June 20, 2013 at 9:36 PM

I think there is a simple solution to this. A law that requires a concurrent investigation by state authorities in any state that has an FBI (or any federal agency/authorities for that matter) involved shooting.

NotCoach on June 20, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Did that video of the unarmed Boston bombing suspect being interviewed go missing? Usually I give the police and other authorities the benefit of a doubt. But, this one really stinks.

SC.Charlie on June 20, 2013 at 9:38 PM

In other news, Lois Lerner remains on paid vacation.

…FREE the TWERP!…take her off of vacation!

KOOLAID2 on June 20, 2013 at 9:38 PM

Yeah, but it’s all good, the NSA is flawless in stopping potential terrorist plots, too. They’ve stopped like a zillion of them, all of them 9/11enty or worser.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Lord! It’s hard to be humble, when you’re perfect in every way.

Old Country Boy on June 20, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Given the current circumstances, what with Prism, and the IRS, and Eric Holder being Attorney General…and this FBI thing, I am reluctant to respond.

Got enough problems to deal with.

Wait a sec, there’s somebody at the door…

Oh, crap.

coldwarrior on June 20, 2013 at 9:39 PM

100%?

Nicely done. These guys should be congratulated.

CW on June 20, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Yep, the FBI only hires perfect people.

SC.Charlie on June 20, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Well that is a testament to FBI training….why are you looking at me like that?

JFKY on June 20, 2013 at 9:40 PM

I wonder why they didn’t go back just a little farther?

Ruby Ridge

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:40 PM

A NYT story reported this week on the suspiciously flawless record of FBI agents in shootings from 1993 to 2011.

That’s impossible, Bush was president eight of those years.

fogw on June 20, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Blowing holes in a van not associated with the Boston Bombers, shooting a boat full of holes when not positive who was in it, if he/she was armed, not good Poolice or FBI work and the guy in Floriduh, thats just bizarre! We are to believe they were interrogating a suspected murderer, maybe terrorist, who is a practiced MMA fighter without restraints?
He was not supposed to live because of what he might say makes more sense than the above.

ConcealedKerry on June 20, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Yeah, but it’s all good, the NSA is flawless in stopping potential terrorist plots, too. They’ve stopped like a zillion of them, all of them 9/11enty or worser.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 9:39 PM

I think it was over 200 or 57 or 81 or 10, I can’t remember.

NotCoach on June 20, 2013 at 9:42 PM

…FREE the TWERP!…take her off of vacation!

KOOLAID2 on June 20, 2013 at 9:38 PM

Easily answered

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:42 PM

I’m sure Randy Weaver will have a few words to say about this.

Liam on June 20, 2013 at 9:43 PM

…FREE the TWERP!…take her off of vacation!

KOOLAID2 on June 20, 2013 at 9:38 PM

What exactly did the twerp say that got her banned?

VegasRick on June 20, 2013 at 9:45 PM

Vladmir Lenin like…

celt on June 20, 2013 at 9:46 PM

WACO!

I think it was over 200 or 57 or 81 or 10, I can’t remember.

NotCoach on June 20, 2013 at 9:42 PM

It depends whose telling the tale, who they are telling it to, why they are telling it and if they are under oath! So could be all of the above.
Good enough for Govt work.

ConcealedKerry on June 20, 2013 at 9:47 PM

…FREE the TWERP!…take her off of vacation!

KOOLAID2 on June 20, 2013 at 9:38 PM

Expect an audit real soon.

Liam on June 20, 2013 at 9:48 PM

Easily answered

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Woah. Nice pull. Are you the one in the comments that said the song describes the democrat party precisely?

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 9:50 PM

WACO!

ConcealedKerry on June 20, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Also outside of the time frame stated. And a lot murkier than what happened in Idaho.

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:50 PM

What? No “bonus” for these guys?

GarandFan on June 20, 2013 at 9:50 PM

See there, you homophobes, government oversight of itself works!

Bishop on June 20, 2013 at 9:52 PM

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 9:50 PM

No.

It does however, sum up the powers that be here pretty good.

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:52 PM

WACO!

ConcealedKerry on June 20, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Also outside of the time frame stated. And a lot murkier than what happened in Idaho.

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:50 PM

That was the ATF, and it doesn’t count when you use tanks and burn people to death.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 9:52 PM

What exactly did the twerp say that got her banned?

VegasRick on June 20, 2013 at 9:45 PM

That Rubio isn’t a god.

Bishop on June 20, 2013 at 9:53 PM

Don’t forget that this includes the Ruby Ridge shooting by an FBI sniper that resulted in the death of a completely unarmed woman holding a baby, under ROE that the Department of Justice’s Office of Professional Responsibility found “did not meet the constitutional standards for the legal use of deadly force.” I have no earthly idea how you get from there to “good shoot.”
After Waco, the Treasury Department did an investigation of ATF’s role and basically gutted them. FBI reviewed their own actions and found… No problems here.
This is typical of FBI, though, which deals with problems “in house,” rather than air them out.

mongoose on June 20, 2013 at 9:53 PM

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 9:52 PM

FBI took over after the initial raid by the ATF. That’s why I wouldn’t include it (CK did), the final battle was just that, a battle.

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:54 PM

As I said last night:

In other words, don’t piss off an FBI agent, because they can take you into a room and murder you and get away with it.

Ah….ah…ahhh…gestapo!

Pardon me.

MadisonConservative on June 20, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Best and Brightest, Baby!

Best and Brightest.

Solaratov on June 20, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Don’t forget that this includes the Ruby Ridge shooting by an FBI sniper that resulted in the death of a completely unarmed woman holding a baby…

mongoose on June 20, 2013 at 9:53 PM

It doesn’t. The cut off point is 18 years ago.

Ruby Ridge was 1992.

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:56 PM

That Rubio isn’t a god.

Bishop on June 20, 2013 at 9:53 PM

Whoa!

VegasRick on June 20, 2013 at 9:56 PM

WACO!

ConcealedKerry on June 20, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Tread carefully. Hot Air gets its panties in a bunch over conspiracy theories these days.

Like the fact that FLIR footage showed shots being fired at the rear of the compound, nearly 60 in all…and it’s been pointed out by the guy who invented the FLIR technology.

MadisonConservative on June 20, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Radley Balko’s “Rise of the Warrior Cop” comes out this summer, and addresses the many things that go tragically wrong in America every month in police tactics amped up with military weaponry and mission creep. If those we employ to represent and protect us are not subject to the same laws and punishments as we are, we’re really more subjects than citizens.

WACO!!!!!

RUBY RIDGE!!!!!

BOSTON BOMBERS!!!!!

FLORIDUH INTERROGATION!!!!!

ConcealedKerry on June 20, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Trusting the government is a fool’s errand….?

Who knew?

Hog Wild on June 20, 2013 at 9:59 PM

MadisonConservative on June 20, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Gesundheit!

Liam on June 20, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Wait, what? Did alt get banned?

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:01 PM

What is it with cops shooting dogs?

I’ll tell you: they just gotta discharge that weapon. They tote it around for years and never get to use it. Might as well shoot a dog. And claim they were threatened.

rdbrewer on June 20, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Whoa!

VegasRick on June 20, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Yeah, heresy of the highest order. If I were in charge she would be launched into the Sun while strapped to the nosecone of a North Korean rocket.

Bishop on June 20, 2013 at 10:02 PM

mongoose on June 20, 2013 at 9:53 PM

Perhaps it was a Saber-Toothed Attack Baby, you ever think of that? No? Typical winger.

Bishop on June 20, 2013 at 10:04 PM

rdbrewer on June 20, 2013 at 10:01 PM

That’s because they value their safety more than yours or that of your family or your pets.

They protect and serve…themselves, most of the time.

MadisonConservative on June 20, 2013 at 10:05 PM

We are only talking about 150 shootings of people over 18 years? I don’t know if “subjects” is a term of art, but I am surprised the number is that low. If there were thousands of these, I might be suspicious of a 100% justified rate, but just over 8 shootings of people per year (wounded or killed)? That seems rather reserved. How many of those would you expect to be unjustified?

Obviously the FBI doesn’t get involved in as many shootings as I would have expected, or I misunderstand the basis for that number.

m2 on June 20, 2013 at 10:05 PM

F*ck the Feds.

Resist We Much on June 20, 2013 at 10:06 PM

You see her posting John?

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:07 PM

It could happen.

davidk on June 20, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Does anyone know if we proles can investigate ourselves and find ourselves 100% justified in anything we do? Would come in handy someday. ;-)

D-fusit on June 20, 2013 at 10:08 PM

You see her posting John?

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:07 PM

I’ve been away for a few days. What happened?

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:08 PM

This being a public intarweb an’ all, I think them FBI fellers are wunnerful.

at shooting unarmed women with infants in their arms

M240H on June 20, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Yep, the FBI only hires perfect people.

SC.Charlie on June 20, 2013 at 9:39 PM

I once got 105% on a test so I guess they’re only almost perfect.

CW on June 20, 2013 at 10:15 PM

It is said Ed swung the hammer at her on a headline thread I believe for using a slur against illegals. No way to know absolutely what transpired as far as I could tell, no evidence of her even being there. HeIIfire I can’t even say for sure it was Ed. I did email him with a request to reinstate alts posting privileges. Many of us have. cozmo brought it to my attention or I wouldn’t even have heard. I too have been away much as of late.

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:16 PM

Thanks, B. That’s pretty harsh. alt loves this place. I thought they warned folks, first.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM

P.S. I have 0 clout with Ed. He is probably still mad at me for his Vatican thread mischief I pulled.

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Correct. In my experience (about 30 years back), Bureau agents were fairly good shots in the technical sense (i.e., shot high possibles on the PPC- back then, they used .38 revolvers), but seldom actually drew their weapons in the field unless they were on the bank-robbery detail. The impression I always got was that they expected to walk up to the perp, say “FBI”, flash the ID, and said perp immediately surrendered.

Well, if you believe Bureau folklore, that’s more-or-less how Mr. Hoover arrested Francis Alvin Karpaviks alias Alvin Karpis, after said goblin wrote him a mash note saying basically , “Oh, BTW, I’m going to kill you”. (Karpis was a bit put out at what happened to Ma Barker, the story goes.)

Platt and Matix in Miami in 1986 rather put an end to that theory of SOP, I guess. The Bureau then embarked on a decades-long search for The Perfect Handgun in The Perfect Caliber. Rather overlooking the fact that SA Ed Mireles, while wounded in one arm, brought the whole horrible business to an end with two rounds from his .38; he just made sure they went to the correct addresses, so to speak.

Trivia note; The infamous Bonnie Parker & Clyde Barrow takedown of 23 May 1934 was a classic example of wasted ammunition. It seems that right at the start of the fusillade, Deputy Sheriff Prentiss Oakley, who was armed with a Winchester M1892 carbine in .44-40, simply shot each of the two in the head- once. The others proceeded to riddle them and their car with somewhere close to 100 rounds from their shotguns and Frank Hamer’s .35 Remington automatic rifle. But it was basically unneeded. Moral; The Bureau aren’t the only ones who occasionally get “overenthusiastic” on the trigger. And oh yes, as the old Texas Ranger saying goes,

Speed’s fine, but accuracy is final.

Getting back to cases, the Bureau has gone to high-capacity automatics in a bewildering succession of calibers, from 10mm Auto to their present fave-rave, .357 Auto, a bottlenecked round ballistically equivalent to a hot .38 Super of… the 1930s. And they’re still pretty good shots… in the technical sense.

What seems to be lacking is instruction in the “shoot/don’t shoot” mindset. Oddly enough, the old “Hogan’s Alley” walk, run by trainers with street experience, seemed to do a better job of teaching this than modern “simulations” scored by computer do.

Which may be how we end up with a potential “material witness/accomplice” in the Boston bombing wearing a toe-tag in the morgue before anyone actually got to question him.

Others may think of conspiracies. I’m more inclined to blame buck fever.

/Just imho.

clear ether

eon

eon on June 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:16 PM

Yet we have to put up with slurs by the anti-religious bigots here anytime a religious post presents itself.

CW on June 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM

I’m curious what the slur was.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM

I thought they warned folks, first.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM

Evidently that went away.

I tend to believe what ALyT wrote. And the powers that be have shown a pattern that would tend to back her up. Unless you are a liberal troll. They get away with just about anything. Just like in real life.

I would write more, but I just got out of the shower and have a wet back.

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Thanks, B. That’s pretty harsh. alt loves this place. I thought they warned folks, first.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM

I read somewhere that her alleged slur involved the initials w and b.

Pretty lightweight in light of some of the atrocious thing the trolls spew.

davidk on June 20, 2013 at 10:23 PM

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Ah, so.

(Wait, my reply is not a slur of Japanese folks, just to be clear.)

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:26 PM

coldwarrior on June 20, 2013 at 9:39 PM

No joke, in my estimation.

tngmv on June 20, 2013 at 10:27 PM

Pretty lightweight in light of some of the atrocious thing the trolls spew.

davidk on June 20, 2013 at 10:23 PM

It seems so arbitrary. Like what SWalker said to get banned. I’ve read far worse by regulars here. Maybe it’s a case of being most intolerant of our own side. It’s cool if liberals expose their racism, because, well, they are.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM

I’ve been away for a few days. What happened?

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:08 PM

She referred to the Rio Grande Swim Team. Apparently that was banworthy.

MadisonConservative on June 20, 2013 at 10:31 PM

It seems so arbitrary. Like what SWalker said to get banned. I’ve read far worse by regulars here. Maybe it’s a case of being most intolerant of our own side. It’s cool if liberals expose their racism, because, well, they are.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM

I knew, way after the fact, that SWalker got banned but never heard why.

He was one of the more intelligent commenters.

davidk on June 20, 2013 at 10:31 PM

If those we employ to represent and protect us are not subject to the same laws and punishments as we are, we’re really more subjects than citizens.

annoyinglittletwerp!

KOOLAID2 on June 20, 2013 at 10:32 PM

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM

It is very arbitrary. And without warning? What’s up with that?

davidk on June 20, 2013 at 10:32 PM

davidk on June 20, 2013 at 10:31 PM

He made some crack about stringing up politicians. I guess it was perceived to be a call to violence, or something.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:34 PM

I looked it up on this list. I didn’t notice if Gringo was included.

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:36 PM

the Rio Grande Swim Team

MadisonConservative on June 20, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Now that is funny.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:37 PM

She referred to the Rio Grande Swim Team. Apparently that was banworthy.

MadisonConservative on June 20, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Was it referencing the Eisenhower operation of that era? If so it’s as stupid as not being able to cite historical events which contain the ban code words, even if they are used in the topic editorial.

Bishop on June 20, 2013 at 10:38 PM

He made some crack about stringing up politicians. I guess it was perceived to be a call to violence, or something.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:34 PM

I guess I’d better not discuss my “bucket” list.

davidk on June 20, 2013 at 10:40 PM

I looked it up on this list. I didn’t notice if Gringo was included.

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:36 PM

Yeah, it’s on the list. I haven’t heard two-thirds of those terms.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:41 PM

Bishop on June 20, 2013 at 10:38 PM

I dl’d Nero’s Killing Machine for fun reading this summer. Thanks for the tip, looks awesome.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:43 PM

Yeah, I can’t say I’m familiar with all that many of them either. I’ll have to look through it better to see how many I make. I’m thinking I rate at least a Gringo though.

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:45 PM

I looked it up on this list. I didn’t notice if Gringo was included.

Bmore on June 20, 2013 at 10:36 PM

Much of that is PC gone amuck. Umm. “Amuck” wasn’t on that list was it?

davidk on June 20, 2013 at 10:50 PM

Accountability: FBI deems agents faultless in 100 percent of shootings over 18 years

Efrem Zimbalist Jr. set high standards.

Dr. ZhivBlago on June 20, 2013 at 10:54 PM

I think it’s amok.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 10:55 PM

When Eric Holder lies to Congress under oath? He tells them he was “misinterpreted” and Blagojeviches his way through a second term as the highest ranking law-enforcement officer in the country.

I wish he would Blagojevich his way through his second term. Blagojevich was arrested almost halfway through his second term, then impeached and removed from office less than two months later, then indicted and convicted. He is now serving his country in the Federal Correctional Institution, Englewood, Colorado. I don’t hold out much hope that any of these things will happen to Eric Holder.

J.S.K. on June 20, 2013 at 11:04 PM

Was it referencing the Eisenhower operation of that era? If so it’s as stupid as not being able to cite historical events which contain the ban code words, even if they are used in the topic editorial.

Bishop on June 20, 2013 at 10:38 PM

That one trips off the moderation. You know what else trips off the moderation?

- The name of a race in Star Trek that might be comparable to the First Lady. (Hint: Bat’leth)

- The specific name of one of them from Star Trek TNG.

- The name of a race in Star Wars that might be comparable to the First Lady. (Hint: Han’s co-pilot)

- The specific name of one of them.

All those things trip off the moderation apparently because they are so offensive, seriously you guys.

MadisonConservative on June 20, 2013 at 11:07 PM

An assault on the King’s Guard is the same as an assault on His Majesty. Comply serfs!

CapnObvious on June 20, 2013 at 11:17 PM

The acountabill-a-buddy system works! Yay!

oryguncon on June 20, 2013 at 11:23 PM

That’s because they value their safety more than yours

Disagree. Maybe occasionally, but a bug dumb Golden Retriever or a half Dachshund, half Pekinese isn’t going to hurt anybody.

They want to feel the power. It’s like rocking back on the accelerator in a fast car.

rdbrewer on June 21, 2013 at 12:51 AM

I don’t like ALT even a little bit…but she shouldn’t have been banned for that.

iwasbornwithit on June 21, 2013 at 1:05 AM

Ruby Ridge

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Didn’t the FBI killer receive an award?

iconoclast on June 21, 2013 at 2:28 AM

As a veteran of the business and a long time detective I can say a couple of things here with certainty.

1- Yes, the police have become para-militarized. Often in reaction to the threat level increase. As the bad guys got more arms the police responded accordingly. As much as the libertarians would like to believe differently, the “war on drugs” was a two side up-arming effort. You also have to remember the bad guys- like the Black Panthers of the sixties- were arming up all by themselves often with better weapons than the average police department. So did the gangs and the drug traffickers.

2- That said, the police can be like kids in a candy store when it comes to toys and equipment. If given the budget and the time, any SWAT team will get all the cool stuff they can get. Much of it is useful- like flashbangs and protective gear. Some of it is just there because its free (the feds would give it to us- like the old armored car we got free for a set of tires- some old inventory distribution program) or just cool to have. I know, I fought budget battles with my department over it.

However, about the time you think the “hut-hut team” as I called them was just out of their minds, gearing up with stuff out of star wars, some idiot felon or drug trafficker would pull out his AK47 or shotgun or 9mm and start throwing shots at us. Suddenly, having a group of police officers heavily armed, well protected, and somewhat trained up isn’t such a bad idea. Their tactics, originally designed to suppress resistance, became a little too aggressive for me. That was a complaint we had and often argued with each other about. Sometimes, just knocking on the door with a warrant in hand was just fine. You didn’t have to battering ram everyone.

That’s the problem. At what point does getting enough gear together to make sure none of your guys gets killed pass the point where the level of armament guarantees innocents get killed. In small departments I’ll argue the balance is pretty good. In big ones, like NYPD and LA I’m afraid some of the criticisms are valid.

archer52 on June 21, 2013 at 6:07 AM

1) I would rather let the politicians give payback for donations and volunteer work than the cops give payback for a criminal who angered or inconvenienced them.

2) I don’t like being in a country where the police jump out of tanks in black outfits.

3) Using police investigative power to punish anyone or help friends or family is far worse than the IRS delaying tax exempt status or selectively auditing and is as common as mosquitoes.

Like campaign reform, this country needs an independent national law enforcement unit to watch our guardians but there is no will to advocate it.

The para military and immunity factors are worsening and this will not end well.

IlikedAUH2O on June 21, 2013 at 7:12 AM

You peasants and serfs better learn to accept you beatings and bullets with the humility and respect that the ruling elite have earned.

acyl72 on June 21, 2013 at 7:34 AM

I wouldn’t believe a thing out of Radly Balko’s mouth. He’s a nut.

Blake on June 21, 2013 at 8:41 AM

J. Edgar smiles silently in his box.

BobMbx on June 21, 2013 at 10:11 AM

I don’t like ALT even a little bit…but she shouldn’t have been banned for that.

iwasbornwithit on June 21, 2013 at 1:05 AM

Oh come on, she could turn any topic to be a topic about her, her kid, or her aspergers, all three of which are totally uninteresting, boring, and worthless.

tom daschle concerned on June 21, 2013 at 11:06 AM

Considering these numbers are after Ruby Ridge I’d say the training has gone up in quality.
As a previous poster noted this is about 8/year and considering the scope of their territory, the entire USA, it seems an extremely low rate of gun draw. Heck if it were some number less than 100% folks would shouting about all the rouge FBI agents Obozo is unleashing on us and how the gubmint cannot control them blah blah blah. So exactly what number is okay with folks?.
As for our dead Chechen lunging at the FBI which knows you are some MMA guy will get you several bullets.
Sounds like a death-by-cop thing as he knew stuff and did not want prison either here of in Russia.

Conspiracy nuts see conspiracies everywhere and do not add to the discourse but lower it.
When you ID the second gunman at the grassy knoll let me know [ Red Dwarf fans excluded! :)]
When you ID the ship or sub or fighter jet that shot down that TWA jetliner let me know.
How’s Area51 doing?

Do we have a concerted IRS attempt to use the tax laws to influence national politics, yes no question.
NSA snooping? Yes but with FISA oversight. Question is are the Supremes over sighting FISA? We shall see.

Bubba Redneck on June 21, 2013 at 12:25 PM

“All we gotta do is tell the story right.”

44Magnum on June 21, 2013 at 1:08 PM

Folks, still what happened in the interrogation room of one of Boston Bomber suspects? The man was unarmed and was shot to death. Did the video go missing? …………….. Was there any video? Did the room usually have video, but was it turned off for some mysterious reason?

SC.Charlie on June 21, 2013 at 3:09 PM

WACO!

ConcealedKerry on June 20, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Also outside of the time frame stated. And a lot murkier than what happened in Idaho.

cozmo on June 20, 2013 at 9:50 PM
That was the ATF, and it doesn’t count when you use tanks and burn people to death.

John the Libertarian on June 20, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Not quite … (two words) Lon Horiuchi (should be indicted for first degree murder) was an FBI sniper who shot Ms. Weaver as she stood in the doorway of their cabin holding her baby during the Ruby Ridge massacre.

Missilengr on June 21, 2013 at 3:34 PM

Like doctors, one must assume that the FBI buries its mistakes…

zoyclem on June 22, 2013 at 7:40 AM