MSNBC panel agrees: Progressives are probably soft-pedaling their civil liberties concerns under Obama

posted at 8:51 pm on June 18, 2013 by Mary Katharine Ham

This is a fun evening dip in the progressive pool. Ed Rendell, who falls in my affectionate, love-to-hate-’em pundit category with Bob Beckel for his general cantankerousness and occasional unabashed moments of counter-partisan push-back, serves up the diagnosis of hypocrisy for the rest of the crowd here. It comes only after they’ve had their fun bashing former Vice President Cheney with jokes from 2008, but good times.

As Noah Rothman notes at Mediaite, this is a Pavlovian response.

Recycling a series of hackneyed jokes that were past their prime four years ago, but which apparently still enjoy some traction with MSNBC’s core audience, Wagner and her guests mocked the Machiavellian Cheney as the “puppet master” of the feeble-minded President George W. Bush.

“Clearly he thinks he’s the smartest person in the room, and he probably is,” opined former Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell. “Dick Cheney probably wasn’t the smartest person in the room, but he thought he was.”

“In that room, he probably was,” Wagner zinged.

Yucks aside, folks, the panel moved on to the substantive issues facing both the Bush and Obama presidencies relating to national security threats.

Rendell said that progressives are being hypocritical by “soft peddling” their frustration with Obama’s embrace of Bush-era intelligence gathering programs. Wagner disagreed with this assertion before the rest of her panel guests slapped the host down and concurred with Rendell’s observation.

Frankly, I get it, and judge lightly I shall lest I be judged (and I’m pretty sure I will). There’s always an urge to throw a bulwark up around your “side’s” folks with a mocking aside to assure the audience you’re still one of them, even if you’re not protecting said side on a certain point because they don’t deserve it. But the concession on the idea the Left is soft-pedaling concerns on this issue is a step toward not soft-pedaling, so cheers to that. I also think there’s plenty of room on right and left for those who genuinely think the powers of government are A-okay at any level as long as their chosen politician is in charge —that that figure will protect from abuse, and President Obama is a figure who inspires more dedication to that very notion than almost any other. It’s pretty much his entire campaign and reelection pitch. “You’ve got me.” I disagree with this notion, for politicians of both sides, and think it’s a nice time to have a teachable moment on both sides.

ED RENDELL: Well, it’s part right and part not right. I think there is no question that anybody who’s been in the president’s presence, President Obama, clearly understands that he thinks he is the smartest person in the room and he probably is. That’s true. Dick cheney probably wasn’t the smartest person in the room but he thought he was. I think there are more checks and balances. I think the president, President Obama, does consult with people who he believes are in a position of knowledge more so than Dick Cheney did. i think Dick Cheney just thought it’s my way or the highway, period. i think the president does consult. Bob, again, we’re talking about it. Can you imagine if this current incident had happened in the bush-cheney era. what would progressives have done?

ALEX WAGNER: I don’t know that all progressives aren’t soft pedaling it. Some are.

BOB HERBERT: A lot of progressives are soft pedaling. I do think there would be just tons of outrage on the left if Bush, Cheney or any Republican were pursuing the same policies that Obama is pursuing in the War against Terror.


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Yep… I don’t mind the thuggery… just as long as my guy is do’n da thug’n

roflmmfao

donabernathy on June 18, 2013 at 8:54 PM

It comes only after they’ve had their fun bashing former Vice President Cheney with jokes from 2008,

What has Biden done?
“shoot twice in the air…”

Need I say more?

Electrongod on June 18, 2013 at 9:00 PM

It’s a wonder they don’t all drown in the hypocrisy.

GarandFan on June 18, 2013 at 9:05 PM

What, realistically, is a ‘progressive’?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:05 PM

President Obama, clearly understands that he thinks he is the smartest person in the room and he probably is. That’s true. Dick cheney probably wasn’t the smartest person in the room but he thought he was.

Desperately asserting the opposite of the truth.

Count to 10 on June 18, 2013 at 9:11 PM

What, realistically, is a ‘progressive’?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:05 PM

They got regressive and progressive mixed up.

CW on June 18, 2013 at 9:11 PM

That Alex Wagner is so hot.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:13 PM

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. Anything for their political power. Bunch of scum bags.

CW on June 18, 2013 at 9:14 PM

BOB HERBERT: A lot of progressives are soft pedaling. I do think there would be just tons of outrage on the left if Bush, Cheney or any Republican were pursuing the same policies that Obama is pursuing in the War against Terror.

That is probably because most Americans trust Obama compared to the war criminal Cheney. It’s ironic that Cheney is yet to travel outside this country since leaving office.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:16 PM

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:13 PM

Personalities are your staple. That’s obvious.

What makes YOU so self-superior all the time, in your head?

Tell us all about YOU, would you?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:17 PM

If there were justice in the world, Snowden would be living it up in the White House and Obama and the NSA ring leaders would be in hiding. I have no doubt, the Founding Fathers would concur.

VorDaj on June 18, 2013 at 9:19 PM

“realistically” a progressive is exactly what Jonah Goldberg described in Liberal Fascism.

Killed a bunch of people. 120 million.

Hard time seeing any humor about “back-peddling”.

wolly4321 on June 18, 2013 at 9:19 PM

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:13 PM

Tell us all why YOU dare lecture and presume to know better about experiences YOU have never had.

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:19 PM

What, realistically, is a ‘progressive’?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:05 PM

Pol Pot was a progressive and if he could have only killed another million or so of his citizens he could have created the utopia that progressives seek.

trs on June 18, 2013 at 9:19 PM

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:13 PM

Personalities are your staple. That’s obvious.

What makes YOU so self-superior all the time, in your head?

Tell us all about YOU, would you?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:17 PM

It’s quite the talking points machine, isn’t it? Like one of those old dolls with the string sticking out the back.

CurtZHP on June 18, 2013 at 9:20 PM

That is probably because most Americans trust Obama compared to the war criminal Cheney. It’s ironic that Cheney is yet to travel outside this country since leaving office.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Not as ironic the Obama cancelled his trip to South Africa since they want to arrest him for being a war criminal.

RickB on June 18, 2013 at 9:21 PM

What, realistically, is a ‘progressive’?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:05 PM

A communist with a better PR agency….

PointnClick on June 18, 2013 at 9:21 PM

What did Cheney do that barky hasn’t, HAL?

wolly4321 on June 18, 2013 at 9:22 PM

A communist with a better PR agency….

PointnClick on June 18, 2013 at 9:21 PM

LOL

Good point there!

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:23 PM

C’mon, HAL.

Come out and play.

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Not as ironic the Obama cancelled his trip to South Africa since they want to arrest him for being a war criminal.

RickB on June 18, 2013 at 9:21 PM

Why, oh why, couldn’t South Africa wait until Barky was there to announce intentions to arrest him?

viking01 on June 18, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Bob Herbert and Ed Rendell are the SMART ones on the panel. Geeze Louise.

O/T: anyone else going to the rally in DC tomorrow?

Naturally Curly on June 18, 2013 at 9:27 PM

That is the classical troll. It has so little upstairs and Just inane posts designed to rile the crowd….not much else.

CW on June 18, 2013 at 9:33 PM

The IRS was just being progressive.

CW on June 18, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Hello, my name is Elbert Lee Guillory, and I’m the senator for the twenty-fourth district right here in beautiful Louisiana. Recently I made what many are referring to as a ‘bold decision’ to switch my party affiliation to the Republican Party. I wanted to take a moment to explain why I became a Republican, and also to explain why I don’t think it was a bold decision at all. It is the right decision — not only for me — but for all my brothers and sisters in the black community.

You see, in recent history the Democrat Party has created the illusion that their agenda and their policies are what’s best for black people. Somehow it’s been forgotten that the Republican Party was founded in 1854 as an abolitionist movement with one simple creed: that slavery is a violation of the rights of man.

Frederick Douglass called Republicans the ‘Party of freedom and progress,’ and the first Republican president was Abraham Lincoln, the author of the Emancipation Proclamation. It was the Republicans in Congress who authored the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth amendments giving former slaves citizenship, voting rights, and due process of law.

The Democrats on the other hand were the Party of Jim Crow. It was Democrats who defended the rights of slave owners. It was the Republican President Dwight Eisenhower who championed the Civil Rights Act of 1957, but it was Democrats in the Senate who filibustered the bill.

You see, at the heart of liberalism is the idea that only a great and powerful big government can be the benefactor of social justice for all Americans. But the left is only concerned with one thing — control. And they disguise this control as charity. Programs such as welfare, food stamps, these programs aren’t designed to lift black Americans out of poverty, they were always intended as a mechanism for politicians to control black the black community.

The idea that blacks, or anyone for that matter, need the the government to get ahead in life is despicable. And even more important, this idea is a failure. Our communities are just as poor as they’ve always been. Our schools continue to fail children. Our prisons are filled with young black men who should be at home being fathers. Our self-initiative and our self-reliance have been sacrificed in exchange for allegiance to our overseers who control us by making us dependent on them.

Sometimes I wonder if the word freedom is tossed around so frequently in our society that it has become a cliché.

The idea of freedom is complex and it is all-encompassing. It’s the idea that the economy must remain free of government persuasion. It’s the idea that the press must operate without government intrusion. And it’s the idea that the emails and phone records of Americans should remain free from government search and seizure. It’s the idea that parents must be the decision makers in regards to their children’s education — not some government bureaucrat.

But most importantly, it is the idea that the individual must be free to pursue his or her own happiness free from government dependence and free from government control. Because to be truly free is to be reliant on no one other than the author of our destiny. These are the ideas at the core of the Republican Party, and it is why I am a Republican.

So my brothers and sisters of the American community, please join with me today in abandoning the government plantation and the Party of disappointment. So that we may all echo the words of one Republican leader who famously said, ‘free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we are free at last.’

Now, maybe, he come visit up over in the libertarian area.

Resist We Much on June 18, 2013 at 9:35 PM

It’s quite the talking points machine, isn’t it? Like one of those old dolls with the string sticking out the back.

CurtZHP on June 18, 2013 at 9:20 PM

…you pull the string…and it whacks off!

KOOLAID2 on June 18, 2013 at 9:36 PM

That is probably because most Americans trust Obama compared to the war criminal Cheney. It’s ironic that Cheney is yet to travel outside this country since leaving office.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:16 PM

When did Canada become part of the US??

geography and facts are hard

“Protesters clashed with police Monday night outside a private club in downtown Vancouver where former U.S. vice-president Dick Cheney was promoting his new book.”

kim roy on June 18, 2013 at 9:37 PM

What, realistically, is a ‘progressive’?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:05 PM

They usually tend to be dweebs for some reason.

Curtiss on June 18, 2013 at 9:38 PM

Boycott this Rat of the World

Schadenfreude on June 18, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Michael Hastings, the award-winning journalist whose explosive 2010 Rolling Stone profile of U.S. Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal (“The Runaway General”) led to McChrystal’s resignation, died in an early morning car accident in Los Angeles on Tuesday, the magazine said. He was 33.

Schadenfreude on June 18, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Cheney is probably sleeping on his porch in Wyoming and these clowns are still terrified of him.

Hummer53 on June 18, 2013 at 9:43 PM

kim roy on June 18, 2013 at 9:37 PM

Oh yea. He went to Canada. What an accomplishment.

Let us see if he survives going into any country in Europe, Middle East or Africa.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Wouldn’t it be a newsworthy headline if it was “MSNBC panel disagrees…”

Bunch of borg-minded numbnutz.

tom daschle concerned on June 18, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Now, maybe, he come visit up over at the RNC HQ.

Resist We Much on June 18, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Had to fix that for you luv.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:48 PM

Troll’s playing you guys.

Keep giving it what it wants…

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

CW on June 18, 2013 at 9:52 PM

What did Cheney do that barky still isn’t doing HAL?

wolly4321 on June 18, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Oh yea. He went to Canada. What an accomplishment.

Let us see if he survives going into any country in Europe, Middle East or Africa.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:46 P

Careful moving those goalposts – you might hurt yourself.

You said out of country, Canada is out of country. Sorry it’s not scary enough for you, but socialists scare me, so good on him for going to Socialist Canada.

kim roy on June 18, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Thanks for the Guillory post RWM. It’s good.

wolly4321 on June 18, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Commander-on-the-Ground becomes Commander-on-the-Hill as Gen. Stanley McChrystal testifies before Congress today.

A few questions, just to break the ice:

Q: Sir, you wrote the following the folllowing in your initial Afghanistan assessment:

A more forceful and offensive StratCom approach must be devised whereby INS are exposed continually for their cultural and religious violations, anti-Islamic and indiscriminate use of violence and terror, and by concentrating on their vulnerabilities. These include their causing ofthe majority of civilian casualties, attacks on education, development projects, and government institutions, and flagrant contravention of the principles of the Koran. These vulnerabilities must be expressed in a manner that exploits the cultural and ideological separation of the INS from the vast majority of the Afghan population.

Could explain how you arrived at this statement, that any such such acts are in “flagrant contravention of the principles of the Koran”? What principles of the Koran are you referring to? What are the names of the scholars or individuals you consult on Islamic doctrine?

Or maybe this:

Q: Sir, you have repeatedly emphasized the need to shift to population protection at the expense of force protection. How do you look your men — and their families — in the eye?

Q: At what point do attacks on ISAF forces directly by Afghan forces, or likely caused by Afghan forces — we have seen a disturbing number already, most recently the murders of five British soldiers by an Afghan policeman, and in August, the death of a Marine LCPL very possibly by an Afghan-tipped ambush — cause you to revisit this policy, which also orders ISAF forces into close proximity and fighting conditions with Afghan forces?

Q: Following up, sir: Indeed, you have written also that ISAF forces have been “preoccupied with force protection,” and must change this “manner that distances itself, both physically and psychologically, from the people they seek to protect” as a means of winning support from the Afghan people.
Where do we look in history for any victorious precedent for this strategy?

Q: How does the military maintain morale among troops asked to hold fire, or not call in fire, in dire circumstances?

Q: What progress has been made in the investigation into events at Gunjgal where three Marines and a Navy Corpsman were killed, according to reports, because they were not approved for supporting fire because they were too close to a village?

Q: If, after eight years of pouring men and materiel into Afghanistan, we have not yet won the “support” of the Afghan people, why will the addition of 30,000 troops will make the difference?

Q: Are you familiar with the Islamic doctrine of jihad, of taqqiyya? And, finally (DRUM ROLL): How can tell us that you are doing your duty in devising a military strategy that doesn’t take into account the war-fighting doctrine (jihad) of the enemy?

VorDaj on June 18, 2013 at 9:57 PM

MSNBC Panel Compulsively Mocks Dick Cheney Until Realizing They Agree With Him
by Noah Rothman | 3:42 pm, June 18th, 2013

Yes. Pavlovian. Libs are not the strongest thinkers.

CW on June 18, 2013 at 9:58 PM

If Dick Cheney had a son, he would look like Barack Obama. OK, well maybe not so much look like him as act like him … … and then some.

VorDaj on June 18, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Imagine of the IRS went after leftist groups under Bush / Cheney. Talk about a firestorm. Think impeachment would not have been the rally cry?

CW on June 18, 2013 at 10:02 PM

Michael Hastings, the award-winning journalist whose explosive 2010 Rolling Stone profile of U.S. Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal (“The Runaway General”) led to McChrystal’s resignation, died in an early morning car accident in Los Angeles on Tuesday, the magazine said. He was 33.

Schadenfreude on June 18, 2013 at 9:41 PM

So I guess the White House believed that rumor that Hastings was writing another similar book to be titled “The Runaway President”.

VorDaj on June 18, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Let us see if he survives going into any country in Europe, Middle East or Africa.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:46 PM

He’s been on the heart transplant list for much of that time, and the recovering from surgery. Trust a progressive to be devoid of all compassion.

The “war criminal” Bush, who’s been in good health, has been all over Africa and to Haiti in recent years. As a reminder, his PEPFAR program has saved millions of lives in Africa, and his recent work there has been to expand the program from AIDS and malaria to cervical and breast cancer. And Laura is doing wildlife habitat work in Texas. She knows a 1000 times more about that stuff than Mrs Obama does too. I’ve talked to her, and she knows her stuff.

Libs hate him, because they hate humans.

juliesa on June 18, 2013 at 10:18 PM

I’m Hot and Bothered.

Oh, and I also voted for Richard E. Nixon’s 3rd and 4th terms, supplemented by my also voting for Chimpy Bush’s 3rd and 4th terms.

And I can sleep at night under the O’bama poster taped to my ceiling. Did you know there is actually a Facebook page called “I Love Waking Up Knowing That Barack O’Bama is President”? Isn’t that Cool?

Who Am I, anyway?

HotLips on June 18, 2013 at 9:13 PM

Edited for Accuracy.

Del Dolemonte on June 18, 2013 at 10:19 PM

the war criminal Cheney.

HotLips on June 18, 2013 at 9:16 PM

How’s that Chaney War Crimes Trial at The Hague coming?

I’d be particularly interested to know how you’re “prosecuting” 2 of the other people you formally charged with War Crimes at The Hague who then voted for your Cult Leader in 2008 and again last year, namely Condi Rice and Colon Powell.

Have their charges been dropped yet?

Del Dolemonte on June 18, 2013 at 10:22 PM

Troll got what it wanted.

CW on June 18, 2013 at 10:26 PM

Had to fix that for you luv.

HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:48 PM

I have no idea where the RNC keeps its headquarters nor do I care to know.

So, did you realise today that the case yesterday did not strike down photographic voter ID law? Arizona’s Voter ID law is still in place.

If you want to educate yourself, see my post on the subject, I have added the reactions of many in the know, including two from the highly-respected SCOTUSblog. So,do yourself a favour and read it. I don’t never have to know.

Understanding Arizona v Inter-Tribal Council of Arizona

All people are ignorant on certain matters. Only those that refuse to educate themselves are the ones that shouldn’t be forgiven for being ignorant. Now, why don’t you think about whether you want to be ignorant and spouting off more ignorance gleaned from those that got the case wrong like Ezra Klein and the talking heads over at MSNBC OR whether you only want the ACTUAL FACTS, THE HOLDING, AND THE ROADMATH THAT THE COURT GAVE Arizona so that it COULD use citizenship in the future?

Sadly, I think that I know you well enough to know that ignorance is sort of your thang.

Resist We Much on June 18, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Troll got what it wanted.

CW on June 18, 2013 at 10:26 PM

And is still unhappy.

Like a garden variety liberal spoiled brat.

CurtZHP on June 18, 2013 at 10:32 PM

That Alex Wagner is so hot.
HotAirLib on June 18, 2013 at 9:13 PM

When you’re that dumb, you’d better be.

Maddie on June 18, 2013 at 11:08 PM

Please excuse the lengthy citation from Taranto’s “Best of the Web.” It is much more thoughtful than the empty blatherings of these television pundits.

Contrary to the headline at Politico.com (and the one at Puffington Host, and New York magazine, and Salon and . . .), President Obama did not actually utter the words “I’m not Dick Cheney” in his interview yesterday with Charlie Rose.

But it is not an unfair paraphrase of what he did say with respect to the National Security Agency’s data-gathering programs. Here’s the president, as quoted by BuzzFeed.com:

It is transparent. That’s why we set up the FISA court. . . . The whole point of my concern, before I was president–because some people say, “Well, you know, Obama was this raving liberal before. Now he’s, you know, Dick Cheney.” Dick Cheney sometimes says, “Yeah, you know? He took it all lock, stock, and barrel.” My concern has always been not that we shouldn’t do intelligence gathering to prevent terrorism, but rather are we setting up a system of checks and balances? So, on this telephone program, you’ve got a federal court with independent federal judges overseeing the entire program. And you’ve got Congress overseeing the program, not just the intelligence committee and not just the judiciary committee–but all of Congress had available to it before the last reauthorization exactly how this program works.

Before we go any further, let’s correct the president on some factual matters. The court that administers the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is not transparent; its rulings, including the “secondary order” leaked by erstwhile NSA contractor Edward Snowden, are classified top secret. It’s accurate to say that the court provides scrutiny–”a system of checks and balances,” as the president put it–but not transparency.

The FISA court is not, as Obama implies, an innovation of his administration. It was set up in 1978, when Obama was still a member in good standing of the Choom Gang. As we noted June 6, the NSA effort was brought under the FISA court’s jurisdiction no later than Jan. 17, 2007, by which point Obama was a celebrity, but Dick Cheney was still vice president and would be for more than two more years.

.
The real problem here, though, is not the president’s casual attitude toward the facts but his relentless partisan hostility. What does he hope to accomplish by asserting that he’s no Dick Cheney? The obvious political answer is that it is an appeal to people for whom Cheney is a demon figure–that is, the Democratic base. Lots of “raving liberals” are feeling betrayed by Obama’s seeming failure to live up to his rhetoric about civil liberties and such. Perhaps there is a psychological aspect to Obama’s pronouncement–that is, maybe he’s trying to reassure himself that he’s better than the leaders he demonized.

But Obama does a serious disservice to the country by casting what is in fact a bipartisan antiterror program in such partisan terms. His message, as an irreverent National Journal headline puts it, is: “Trust Us, Because . . . Trust Us.” We’d change the emphasis a bit: Trust Us, Because . . . Trust Us.

Obama’s message to Democratic partisans is that they were right to distrust the government when Cheney and George W. Bush were in the White House, but they should trust it now that he is. Great, but what about people who aren’t Democratic partisans? For many of them, Obama’s presence in the White House is a reason to be less trustful of government. And the basis for such distrust is not wholly partisan, given the abuses of power recently revealed at the State Department, Justice Department, Internal Revenue Service and elsewhere.

This column, while we sympathize with Peggy Noonan’s unease about what she calls “the U.S. surveillance state,” is inclined to give the NSA the benefit of the doubt. But by casting his defense in such nakedly partisan terms–you can’t trust the other guys, but you can trust us–Obama only sows distrust.

If the NSA program is vital to the defense of the nation, it was no less so when Republicans were in the White House, and it will be no less so the next time they are. Obama would do well to remember that he is, temporarily, the president of all America. “I’m not Dick Cheney” may be a suitable message for a presidential candidate, but a president’s attitude should be more along the lines of “We’re all Dick Cheney now.”

onlineanalyst on June 18, 2013 at 11:14 PM

What, realistically, is a ‘progressive’?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:05 PM

About a century ago, it was a forward-thinking Woodrow Wilsonite who believed that the Constitution was outdated, that upward mobility in society was a dead letter, and that it was the job of enlightened elites’ (like himself) to rule benignly over the masses. Without getting their opinions, or consent, first.

By the middle of the 20th Century, between eugenics, the National Recovery Act, and fawning over a brutal group of psychos in Russia, a loony Gilbert & Sullivan refugee in Italy, and a certain Austrian watercolourist who couldn’t draw people worth two cents, they had made the term “progressive” stink on ice. So they started calling themselves “liberals”. They didn’t really change anything else, just the name. (Planned Parenthood= Eugenics Squared; LBJ’s Great Society= FDR on Uppers; Ted Kennedy’s Foreign Policy= Uncle Joe was a swell guy, and his heirs are even sweller; Pro-Palestinianism= Gee, what’s another six million dead Jews here or there?)

Since they’ve spent the last forty years making “liberal” smell bad, they’re “progressives” again.

The only thing that never changes is their lust for power, their hatred of our civilization, and their absolute contempt for anybody not on their team.

When a non-progressive is in a position of power, they generally don’t want to favor one group over another. When a progressive is in the same position, it’s “Yeah, I’m gonna reward my friends, stick it to my enemies, and what are you gonna do about it?” Usually with an accompanying sneer.

A better term for these parasites would be “elitist-statists”. They believe absolutely in an all-powerful State, and that it should be run by an Elite’- namely them.

Gee, what a coincidence. Russia, China, Italy, Japan, and let me think, oh, yes, Germany all tried that.

How did it work out for them?

clear ether

eon

eon on June 18, 2013 at 11:15 PM

What, realistically, is a ‘progressive’?

Liam on June 18, 2013 at 9:05 PM

Somebody obsessed with implementing the discredited and anti-human economic and political doctrines of long-dead white European males.

Good Lt on June 19, 2013 at 9:00 AM

BOB HERBERT: A lot of progressives are soft pedaling. I do think there would be just tons of outrage on the left if Bush, Cheney or any Republican were pursuing the same policies that Obama is pursuing in the War against Terror.

If Obama is so darn smart why is he running his administration just like G. Bush & Cheney? Imitating is the sincerest form of flattery. Progressives think they are the smartest people in the room and can’t see this hypocrisy.

Herb on June 19, 2013 at 9:52 AM